Elon Musk vs Julius Malema | Is outrage over "kill the Boer" chant warranted?
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Welcome back to SMWX! Today, we dive deep into the contrasting views of billionaire Elon Musk and South African politician Julius Malema on the controversial "kill the Boer" chant. Is the outrage surrounding this chant genuinely warranted or is it being blown out of proportion? We'll explore the historical context, the implications for South Africa's sociopolitical landscape, and much more. Join the conversation and let's dissect this together. Remember to LIKE, SHARE and SUBSCRIBE for more thought-provoking content!
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About me: Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh is an author, scholar and founder of the Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh Xperience (SMWX), a digital, youth-centred current affairs platform. He holds a DPhil in International Relations from the University of Oxford and is a Lecturer in International Relations at Wits.
Sizwe, your book "The New Apartheid" should be in all South African high schools! We are not taught the full story of Apartheid in SA schools
🙂
I agree!
We should be taught in school why we like most African countries cannot move forward, as apposed to other countries in the World who were also colonised . Why we can never move beyond victimhood.
@@Tinker8531knowing where u come from can lead to look forward where u going, the problem here in SA we dnt know fully where we come from ciz we are not taught at school as it should be, those who succeeded to move they fully understand where they come from and ciz they are taught this history
where can i get the book?
Sing the song, as much as you like, you make a good argument for it.
Imagine, however, there was a similar song sung by white people where they talk about the Swart Gevaar and black people having to be killed. Sure, they don't mean it literally, they might claim that there's a historical context for it, and besides, they're practicing freedom of speech. To qualify it then, they don't sing it everywhere, just at cultural meetings and so on.
If you don't have a problem with that, your argument succeeds, but right or wrong gets ignored.
Let’s continue the thought experiments: imagine that Apartheid was perpetrated by Black people against white people. Would your perspective still be the same?
@@_SMWX apartheid seems to be a issue kept alive by "intellectuals" like you with a title to try and back it. 30 years bro! No improvement, instead the country has been looted bone dry by those voted into power, racism just changed color and I feel racial tensions and stability are now even worse than pre 1994. As someone that did not grow up during apartheid we as whites were told racism is wrong. That we should love one another as equals. But that does not seem to be the case the other way around. Try and prove me wrong? I don't see stadiums singing kill black farmers and black people.
We need more people to wake up to realise that not one government in SA had its citizens in mind. Don't let bitterness get you. Instead see the system, that is our past and present government screwed us all over.
@@_SMWX You have a point, from my perspective stars twinkle and are very small.
Elon was spot on - this is literally a chant that calls for killing members of a group.
Those that speak out about it - do so because often they are aware of the fact that - in countries where horrible events unfolded - these types of songs and chants were sung and called at political rallies, broadcast on tv and radio - and it was done so for years and years till eventually horrible violent acts followed. People will call this out and rightly so.
An article says : "I remember RTLM broadcasting songs conveying hatred and demonising the Tutsi. The songs would openly call for our extermination. Political slogans were translated into song and young people were mobilised into youth movements."
SA is a war zone as it is, how will singing about killing those that provide food for SAns will help resolve all the crime, suffering and hunger.
😂 Elon Musk is finally taking part in South African public discourse. I swear I thought he didn't want anything to do with SA after he left.
While your comment warrants agreement that he should do as he did, and that is certainly appreciated, one should possibly not be too harsh about his being uninvolved in other SA matters.
That said, he has also resisted the plan of the elite and wealthy that the wanton execution force has put into action, and bought Twitter in order to provide a platform for rational discussion that would not be ended summarily by the suppression of views and evidence that didn't fit the official narrative.
I would welcome an opportunity to speak to him about his research relating to a device that might interact with the human brain, and his recent or current experiments in that context, with pigs. How does he separate this from the WEF's bizarre plans?
Elon has resisted and objected to irrational aspects of ESG, as well as measures purportedly needed to be applied to control or avoid climate change. It is difficult to imagine that he would be a secret supporter of the class scabs behind the official WEF narrative. Klaus Schwab has stated that we're experiencing the 4th industrial revolution, which will result in, and I quote, "extinction of large parts of the human population".
We are giving too much attention to this.
White South Africans have context of our country and its struggles.
Let also not forget that the were boers that never wanted this country to see freedom. They are still here bitter and loooking for any reason to divide the country with race
Yes because they are the ones looting the country and destroying it, singing racial dividing songs, committing crimes, talking about apartheid constantly and showing hatred towards blacks. (I am being sarcastic incase its not obvious)
They are not the ones trying to make country better, they are the ones that want free grants, housing, schooling, electricity, medical, etc etc and they are the ones burning schools and destroying infrastructure. (again sarcastic incase its not obvious)
Please stop spreading hate, all South Africans need to work together to get rid of the corrupt.
this person talks alot of kak. there was a referendum. Who do you think voted to abolish apartheid. Even Steve Hofmeier voted to abolish apartheid. Just shows you what you know.
@@mankanerafter they saw the writing one wall! After every measure taken to resist change.After your overseas support (USA especially) began to pull back.
Mr. PHD, exam thelast 200 years and tells what people are responsible for the most violence on the planet.
@@igottaspeak SA could have gone the road that israel took. But we did not. So writing on the wall is another kak excuse. It was ended because we did not want it.
It is irresponsible to sing and chant “kill anybody”…
I am amazed as how i Wil be thrown in jail for saying a word starting with K which i do not use as something negative, but to sing Kill the boer is totally fine. These are old negative connotations and do not belong in this country. I have never used the K word as something other than meaning black but understand that is not how blacks feel and respect it. The same should be be true for this song. If you sing this song and make a pistol with your hand and go pa pa pa is not symbolic.
You are insane
I now understand why his father loses every court case!
Using Sizwe's logic, it is hard to see why people like Penny Sparrow where found guilty of hate speech given that she had no intention of hurting anyone.
A futile personal attack to mask a weak argument. To compare a song to the Penny Sparrow incident is really quite bizarre.
@@_SMWX You framed this as a freedom of speech conversation and she was found to have used hate speech. Surely we strive for constancy in matters of law. If someone from Afriforum had to dredge up some song from the 1960's advocating a genocide against blacks, could this be defended on the basis of it being a struggle song, albeit from a different struggle? My point is one of consistency.
For you to bend over backwards and quote statistics in an attempt discredit the vulnerability that a minority feels sounds similar to the apartheid apologists who found an obscure paragraph in the bible to justify those unjust laws.
On a separate note, lets do an interview on my State of the Nation show where we can debate the state of South Africa. What do you think?
@@_SMWX if I were you I wouldn't waste my time replying to such nonsense, it will take more than a few minutes to fully rebut an argument that should not need a rebuttal.
Go and argue your logic in Court. Your logic won't pass the our Constitutional litmus paper, but Sizwe's logic will.
@@_SMWXhe does however have a point. In the context of Penny Sparrow your analysis does come across as hypocritical and disingenuous.
I would like to add a bit of context here, the reason why farmers feel they are targeted is because of the TYPE of crime, in a lot of these cases the farmers get tortured without any property stolen or damaged. This contrast with ordinary crime where the intensions are usually for monetary gain. Go read up on the types of tortures if you want sleepless nights. Farms are in extremely far from populace areas therefor these criminals make an effort to go attack farmers. So, what drives them to do so? Is it hatred, racism politicians shouting and singing for them to be killed? Can you understand how terrible it is when our presidents and politicians can't even see the wrong in chanting genocidal songs? Even if it is just a so-called struggle song. If there where white people singing such songs against black people, it is also just as wrong. should it be banned? in my opinion no, I believe in freedom of speech, but is it is surely a terrible song that should be condoned. Racism is illegal in South Africa, is this song racist, yes off course it is. In the context of our laws, it technically should be banned.
And also the same cases where farmers torture their employees in horrific manner, on of which was put in a coffin and buried alive and the farmers took videos of it, recently in my neighborhood a boy was found deceased in the river with his body badly brused, and he was killed by a farmer for stealing his stock, so crime is crime, when it happens to white people it should be special, the very same person who will kill a farmer would come to the neighborhood and stab me for my phone. Nothing is special with a while life, crime is crime
"Kill the boer on any given day"
There is no the connection to the song actually inciting violence and the farm crimes though. They happen independent of the songs. There is merit to the fact that the farmers being murdered just for torture sake is true but like with most forms of violent crimes, there is usually a relationship (however stretched, whether via family historically, as community members, employer/ee etc) between perpetrator and victim. Crime is crime, and SA has a big crime problem which has many causes and manifestations. Also, those same perpetrators aren't exactly harmless to black ppl either, I would argue safely that they inflict violence to whatever community they live in as well, they don't murder farmers at night and then go and help school kids and elderly ppl cross the road during the day... Also, ppl listen to all sorts of music that speaks to violence daily in rock, emo and hip hop genres so if we don't actually have many solid cases that show a relationship between the song in a political setting and enacted violence, it is free speech.
As an E-Hailing driver...did you know we get killed in a daily basis without anything being stolen in most cases....they die more than farmers!!!! Go to the nearest police station in Gauteng they'll tell you murder is reported everyday....an there is no chant there!!!! Crime affects us all.. remember we get killed too without anything being stolen
Maybe here in South Africa you can claim that there's context behind a song/chant about killing farmers and call it part of our struggle heritage.
The optics are not great though! From the perspective of an outsider seeing Malema, the leader of a radical left-wing party with militant undertones, singing kill the boer and adding the line shoot to kill, it looks and sounds very genocide-y. There may not be a direct link to farm murders - but damn... reading about the horrific torture farmers go through for seemingly nothing and having the leader of the 3rd largest political party sing about killing farmers - Doesn't look good fam!
Malema&his ilk are in war against unspecified enemies.It's a waste of time to ask him about what he's doing instead let him pinpoint who are his enemies&what we must expect from him after he is defeated or after he has defeated his enemies. We need to know about future of our kids,now.
Interesting point.
The economic oppressive system is an enemy whoc must be faught by all SAns irrespective of race.
I enjoy the analysis from Sizwe more than I enjoy the interviews. To Sizwe and the SMWX, keep up the good work.
Honorable minister Walsh, As a caribbean born individual who has lived the majority of his life in Holland i can i sympathize with the cause and context of the controversy surrounding the honorable Juluis Malema. Curacao, the island to which I am native of, has had its share of suffering through colonization and has produced some of the best struggle songs in the native tongue till this day. In the debate on youtube between EFF spokesperson honorable Cmsr Sinawwo Thambo and dishonorable kallie kriel of afriforum it
was very clear that mister kriels intentions are dubious at best and his motives for what the germans refer to as weltanschauungskrieg ( which translates as worldview warfare) are eminently clear to slander and propagate fear. Here in Holland the police openly shoot farmers and the chant has never been sung nor was there cause for existential panic on an international scale. Maybe they need take teaspoon of cement and harden the f* up
Yebo! You are right
You telling south African farmers to hard the fuck up hahahaha dude! Oh, wow, thanks, that was a good giggle.
I wish you could understand the violent context in South Africa but you can't... The song is in the air ready to be used by any desperate illiterate stupid savage individual that could be floating around... No, I am not being racist... Just aware of the dangers, and thanks to the Gods I have not been a victim of one of those brutal inhumane attacks, although have had a close call...
@@stuartwalker2355 I did not mean to confuse nor to insult, and the satirical comment was directed at the Afri Forum representative and his overbearing rhetoric.
@@thenightmayor7285Do you know what happens at these farm murders?
I'm surprised at you Sizwe making comments like that with regard to such a sensitive matter. It seems no one cares about the tenuous fragility of our democracy. Your stance on this matter may be construed as a tacit support for such radical and demagoguery tactic used to promote hatred and reinforce racial tensions in our country. I'm also surprised that people like you fail to draw the line between when it was expedient to sing such songs due to the context and now when it may not be wise and nor appropriate to do so. Mark my words, the use of demagoguery it's putting out country on a slippery slope to racial tensions.
i really cant believe people accuse you of being a propagandist. you have a whole PhD, have been publishing your own thoughts and analysis independently for a long time. Love that they can never use that accusation to silence you. keep flying high bro
Eish people jump to silly conclusion based on clips that they see. 🤷🏽♂️
Prince Mashele is the real propagandist not Sizwe
It’s a war tactic. Divide and conquer it’s ingrained in White DNA. You mostly only see Caucazoids saying this stuff.
PhD in?
As an outsider, i am 100% admirer of malema and eff. There will always be people like musk. Musk would have no issue if SA was still under apartheid. I listened to him and he is truly a product of the apartheid regime. He is oblivious to the opressed and downtrodden. I only have a middle finger salute for him andhis opinion. GO MALEMA!
Hold up... you don't seem to know that everytime he sings that song that farm murder rates rocket... JUST because of that your whole initial argument falls flat on its arse. #sorrynotsorry There is a DIRECT corrolation between the song and a specific group of people being brutally murdered.
But is it not ironic how the singing of this song will be linked with "farm killings"
I respect Mr Walsh. We need to give this man his flowers.
Thank you.
@@_SMWX Good morning Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh. My name is wandile Dume. I am a graduate with a Bachelor of Education FET majoring in Accounting and Economics, registered from SACE. I have begged for a job for years now. I got a learnership where i learned about merchandising but my contract was terminated through a whatsapp group without a formal hearing. I have not received any letter of dismissal nor have I signed my any letter of termination of my contract. I still receive my payslips but my stipend is channelled to a different bank account by those who terminated my contract through a whatsapp group. Being a black person is very difficult to live in South Africa. I suspect that my name is used by some people for their own personal gain. I need help.
Sizwe, I'm almost halfway through your video and you seem to be consistently making excuses for bad behaviour. Your attempt to support your argument is pitiful. Now, you're talking about connecting available data to the reality, but you've failed to present the data; you've quoted essentially nothing in the way of figures to support your argument. You present an argument with no meaningful support for it. You try to compare brutal farm murders with killing two birds with one stone. Sorry, you lose.
Elon expressed his view and you take him on for objecting to Julius's direct threats on farmers lives, and you find the latter quite acceptable. I don't see how. Your monologue presents a dearth of information and gives no room for actual discussion. Who on Earth said that only the EFF should be prevented from singing the song? The video has one minute to go, and you say don't use seconds on which to base an argument. This is not your first video that I've watched, and I previously found you to present balanced arguments, but this one is a huge set of excuses based on nothing much. What planet are you on?
You surely can't expect the farmers and their family members that have been violently attacked by black people, who've committed heinous slow murders, to make them suffer physically and emotionally over extended periods.
Do your homework properly by analysing the occurrence of farm murders in relation to the occurrence of such rallies. I've often pointed out that one can't simply compare the number of crimes committed by blacks with the number committed by whites. One can't simply ignore the black on black violence, either. Where are the numbers that analyse, for example, the number of murders committed and categorised by manner of killing, which races committed them and which races were victims, the social strata or occupations of murderers and victims, attempted murders that failed and left victims permanently disabled and or disfigured, and more.
In this particular case, a proper count of farm murders is also needed and farmers as well as workers, of whatever race, should be counted, murders of police officers and murders by police officers, male and female, etc. What is genocide and do the numbers qualify. Before figures are analysed, the records need to be kept and captured for analysis. Is the rate of farm murders higher than the rate of police murders? The latter is usually higher than a general average, because the occupation carries higher risk. Any specific categories should be compared with overall averages. The Government denies the rate of farm killings. Where are the figures?
You've failed to show that there is no connection between the abhorrent rally song and actual murders committed. Julius Malema has a brain that works well enough for him to realise that individuals incited to commit the recommended murders, don't regard the recommended crimes as a harmless activity based on history.
Do you regard the inclusion of machinegun sounds and instructions to shoot to kill as equally innocuous? Do you regard calling someone a monkey to be far worse than inciting murder? How can Government be contemplating hate speech legislation, when it deems inciting murder to be justified? Did it also approve of "Shoot to kill"? Where's the rainbow nation of whites and blacks living harmoniously together. The ANC has had nearly 30 years to ensure good education for all, and to provide adult education for the formerly disadvantaged of any race. All indications are that it has failed dismally, across the board.
Sizwe has some strong and closed minded biases on a number of issues. His closed mindedness on the issue of Cape independence, for example, convinced me that it is a good cause. Sizwe convinced me that Cape independence is desirable.
As you can see it's my 3rd comment. This touched me a bit as I am dumbfounded by how someone with what I assume is a doctor's degree can master so much nonsense. You even quote your own book and believe in what you wrote that you quoted from someone else, like it's someone reading scripture.
But why continuesly want to sing a song that bothers people, there's a lot of other songs. You can just sing another song it doesn't have to be an issue
If they keep on singing "Kill the boer" then don't "cry baby" when the boers start demonstrating with the old flag.
They can use their flag back home where the Boeres are actually from. Dutchland
If they love apartheid so much then why are they still in Africa???
You are an intelligent guy but its much simpler than you are making it out to be.
SA is failing completely, we do not need racial division and racial hatred songs as all it does is constantly use apartheid as an excuse for the current state of the country and incite violence/hatred/animosity against one another.
You can make the silly argument that there is crime all over blah blah blah, that's a completely separate matter.
We all know that there are hate crimes in South Africa on both sides, are you implying no black people in South Africa/America are killed simply due to excess force by police because of ignorant hateful racists?
Sure its not always racial but the problem is sometimes it is and THIS is the problem with this song.
Your argument regarding why there are more crimes in black areas is also flawed as the majority "black areas" are townships or low cost housing areas and there are many more black people etc so its normal that this is the case given the countries history.
These areas usually have a much higher population with less policing and more corruption, its black on black crime.
Its cultural, every time there is looting many black people decide to get greedy and take advantage of the situation and go and steal what they want, again this is simply me pointing out a problem with that culture of the same people that sing that song, its also not only poor black people as middle class take part in this nonsense as well. You also say "black people" are not violent and yet it was "black people" who were committing genocide against foreigners not that long ago for "stealing their jobs" and "black people" who often have violent riots.
It is also almost always "black people" committing violent crimes in South Africa so I don't understand your logic.
What I am stating is not racist, its simply pointing out hurtful truths. I have literally no issue with skin color but have a massive issue with toxic cultural practices and beliefs.
How often do you hear of "white people" going out and murdering, raping, looting, sabotaging countries infrastructure and power etc. It certainly happens but I can guarantee you in numbers its very low when making comparisons.
What happened in Cape Town recently? Was it peaceful or are you a little delusional?
Interesting perspective. Thank you Mr👌
I love how Sizwe says that calling people to take the words of the song "kill the boer" literary are saying "irresponsible things." All whilst bending over backwards to not say the same of the people singing the song and then proceed justify it being sung. Its like, through some magic (historical context, the imagined intent of the singer and audience), singing a deeply controversial song that, in its words, calls for violence against a category of people is not also "irresponsible."
Personally i think the song is a bit like burning the Koran or Bible. It is done irresponsibly by political actors to get free media. The main difference being that people can choose their religion but people cant choose their ethnic group or race, that makes the song worse than religious book burning because the target is racial rather than an object of choice like religion.
Singing the that song is nothing like burning the holy scriptures. Boeres are not holy, they are murders, oppressors and settlers. Taking peoples lands, oppressing them and even believing and teaching to this day especially in Orania that they are the chosen race, the higher race makes the song relevant to day.
Listen here, this song today means fully dismantling the systems of apartheid that still prevails today in South Africa 🇿🇦. Once those systems are full dismantled then the song will continue to be relevant today. I must add that there is no Boere/whyte genocides that you claim that there is.
@@theonly6359 your racist reply kinda prooves why the song is so bad. Putting that aside, I don't think any scriptures are holy but I do see why people feel so strongly about it which is why I feel singing the song is like burning them. I never made any comments on the whole white genocide thing, you are just trying to put words in my mouth on that issue.
@@arkuis reverse psychology won’t work on me, African South Africans are the victims here not Boeres. The people that still believe that they are the better higher race than the native Africans are the ones that are racist not me.
You start this drivel by stating that crime and violence is a huge problem in SA.... 15 seconds later you justify chanting the killing of a particular group is justified... But, I hear you say, its part of our heritage... well, applying that logic, how far back can one go back to claim one's heritage? And who is going to decide what is far enough? You? At this rate we will revert back to cannibalism... You are however entitled to your opinion, but so am I. It is also my choice not to grow my business, retrench staff and disinvest in a country that justifies songs calling for my demise. Your problem is not the legal matter regarding the singing of this song, it is the financial cost this country will suffer for it. Alas, it will be the poorest of the poor that will pay the price as money and growth drains from South Africa's shores... Oh, wait, there's hope! Zimbabwe is doing swimmingly well!
Your problem you think we need you… GO!!!! Why are you still here?
You are so full of drivel. Cannibalism?. Alas ! leave Zimbabwe alone. Your myopia and unwillingness to listen to this young man's words will be your demise. Wallowing in self-pity. If you had a mosel of a functioning analytical brain you would at least point out the positive side of Sizwe`s take o this.
At least say your piece without resorting to unpalatable language. In any case, Boers do not exist. Afrikaaners do.
There they go weaponising the economy of this country against us black people forgetting that it was a privilege they had due to apartheid that they have all the means to even be able to employ africans.shame on you.
The rich white person in South Africa is a poor white person in Europe" -Julius Malema
Your time is running out.
@@WiZzarD_4 Actually, you do. I understand that it does take some level of education to comprehend.... so I won't hold it against you. ;-).
But you can choose another song. It is all in the packaging. The world is looking at you and then, they see people who, the way it appears, want to kill a farmer.
This makes black S. Africans appear violent and creates a bad image.
Look at MLK. He did not sing Kill the White Man. His message was love. And he sang spirutuals and We Shall Overcome. There could be a message of peace in a song.
And he achieved a lot.
The thing is, if you are a Boer and a good person, and never hurt anybody and you have kids, how are you going to explain to your kids all that?
Just choose some other song with a positive message for all S. Africans.
Like The Rainbow Land.
Thank you for painting that context. Makes sense now. Perhaps have a conversation with Elon about this, and other things, on the platform?
Well said Doc.🙌🙌🙌🙌
You cannot compare those two figures of speech. “kill the Boer” has absolutely no justification. It doesn’t matter how much you play with semantics. On 4 Sept the Supreme Court of Appeal is going to hear the appeal against that stupid judgment of the Equality Court. I wish it gets overturned and if not, it must go all the way to the Constitutional Court.
should the revolutionary songs be set aside or only this one we must sing this songs
Is this “kill the Boer “ is Order or Stetament or is a Chant was there before Malema or you afraid what you were done on black people then black people can do the same to you now running all over like headless chicken
We re not like you guys we got ubuntu we will never kill you so dont panic
When your happy to apply sensorship who sets the boundaries. What if next even what you post will be done the same thing
So much anger Thuso. We will sing that song until the court says something different.
@thusothebe1061 Based on the country's constitution as it stand, KTB falls under the ambit of free speech so any ruling stating otherwise would be by it's very definition unconstitutional
Dr Sizwe you are the EFF mouthpiece or spin doctor. This is clear to most Azanians or South Africans. You need someone to be frank with you. Do not allow to be used by the EFF who are full of contradictions. One day they will reject you .
I appreciate the nuance in your opinion. That kind of nuance and logical consistency is, I think, a mark or free and original thought. Good stuff!
Very intelligent analysis, my brother...
I suppose the same would apply to a song with lyrics that include "Necklace those crooked !" if there is an opportunity to explain to the audience that 'necklace' should be taken to mean 'remove by democratic means', not literally, and the n-word is not intended to include black people in general, but only those in the ANC and those that support them and vote for them and also that it is an updated struggle song for living under ANC misrule in 2023. Any thoughts?
THANKS FOR THE PERTINENT ANALYSIS AND WISDOM...
👍🏽
Almost 50 percent unemployed. What can eff offer. This will not get better. In voting, you deserve no better than the leaders you pick.
Thanks for the insightful content Dr Mpofu
Intellectual analysis ❤. big up.
Elon Musk, has just exposed himself to the fact that, albeit being wealthy he is not intelligent. A very sluggish man when it comes to diligent thinking.
If the song is related to their struggle are Indians allowed to sing of their current struggle because I've seen many on the bread line, even colored for that matter or what, would that be racists. Let me guess only blacks have struggled? That Julia's can even cry about Shampoo so I don't take much notice of his tantrums. Better, bigger fish to fry😞
Are you aware that White MK soldiers and veterans have sung this song and ones similar?
Honorable Mister Walsh esq.
As a white South African I'd like to categorically state that there is no white genocide happening in SA.
I would also like to say that Farmers of all races are being victims of crime often murder, and on occasion, murder which seems to have a particularly violent nature.
But it is not Genocide and farmers of all races are subject to this phenomenon... mainly because crime is rife in SA and farmers are easy targets due to their isolation.
With regards to the singing of "kill the boer, kill the farmer" and, I have no doubt that it is a traditional song/chant and does not literally mean go out and Kill the Boer/farmer...but as conscious considerate members of society what should be considered, is the way it makes our fellow compatriots/neighbour's feel...
Regardless of whether they(whites, boers,farmers) should educate themselves and try harder to learn African culture.... The overriding point is, these fellow compatriots feel targeted...some feel intimidated... and some feel fear!.... Especially boers/farmers in isolated areas that have witnessed some pretty savage murders of their neighbours.
Recently with movements like BLM and the like, the argument around whether something is racist or inciteful depends not on whether the person uttering the comments thinks so.... but on whether the "Subject" of the utterances thinks so..... And with out a doubt a section of the South African population takes exception to the singing of the song.... and if we accept that they take the words literally and feel attacked and fearful.... regardless of whether we feel they "should" feel that way...but rather that they "do" feel that way.
The point is, if we honestly want to live in a tolerant, compassionate, forward thinking society then, should we not, as a sign of good will, just not sing a song that literally includes the words "Kill" a section of our society.
If the feeling is along the lines of screw them... they didn't take our feelings into account during Apartheid therefore deserve no consideration .....
Well then that's another debate.
Ps What do you think of the whole Drikus du Plessis vs Isreal Adisandiyo - Bringing the belt back to Africa debacle..
White SAns born in SA, know about the chant. Those creating drama about the chant, have their own agenda. You never see them staying indoors afraid of going out bcs there was a chant. They still go ahead with their daily business with no fear at all.
Freedom of expression....so if the words white were to be exchanged then that would be okay? You are a child and use a child's thought processes. There is no need for a debate, this song is destructive plain and simple.
We should be discussing the issue of the land, Julius Malema won't stop singing the song as long the black people don't have their land back.
Let's talk about the land
Freedom of expression does not include incitement to murder or genocide and that is what Malema has been doing.
That's your mindvtrying to distort Malema. Your intention is to silence him like your predecessors used to torture, jail or kill people for exercising their freedom of expression.
@@musajohannessithole8970 really? that idiot is clearly a racist, how the hell can you distort the level of racisim that Mr Malema so openly preaches to his masses? If racism is freedom of expression which it seems to be at this present day, but in favour again of just 1 color then every battle of the past was for nothing! Dont be so shallow brother. Dont fall for their clever rhetoric to sow division and to keep you distracted while they eat the food in your fridge.
Personally, I feel like if you have to do mental gymnastics to justify something. It's probably not something that should be justified....
On the contrary: if you have to say something is “mental gymnastics” without identifying why it’s wrong through analysis, then you are probably wrong.
If you look at the comments of all these videos covering the chant, they are clearly doing this as an act of revenge for our ancestors doings, many comments calling to physical violence. They choose their wording carefully on a recording, but it is what is discussed behind closed doors that is highly concerning. The comments reflects the Eff follower's real intentions.
@@_SMWX the definition of Mental Gymnastics: "happen when our brains spiral into destructive thought patterns-making up excuses or arguments for unjustifiable decisions or situations"
How is that not what you did? I actually came to this video with an open mind but the hoops I watched you jump through to try and say "Singing about a desire to murder a group of people is okay and also progressive" was strange. Not only that but the intellectual dishonesty and twisting of narratives. When you mentioned that the black population has more violent crimes committed against them you failed to add that it was black on black crime. While the farm murders were not only black on white but it was also done because of racism.
I'm sorry that I take more than a few big words to fool. I'm not a fan of white South Africans as I'm one of the people on their long shit list. And I'm not defending anyone. But you need to do better especially with topics as sensitive as these.
If you don't want to be accused of spreading propaganda, DO BETTER.
@@helenaolivier2750 Yup, any logical person can see that singing about killing a population group is problematic and in bad faith.
You talk sense🤞
Lol. Welsh loving every comment here that agrees with his echo chamber. Some academic...so much for critical discourse
You can express your past racial justices without chanting to kill a race who are South African citizens.
And that’s what happens 99.9% of the time. I just don’t think the song should be legally banned. That’s the argument that needs to be engaged.
@@_SMWX It's a matter of respect to other South Africans, it's obviously triggering emotions in a community, that alone should be respected. Malema chants that to get an emotional response and provoking a demographic. It's really disrespectful refusing to listen to concerns of a race everyone shares the country with. There is a reason the chant went viral, it's emotionally triggering and effects a demographic.
In the equality court of the same case, an afriforum legal representative mentioned how Afrikaaners sing when they put a child to sleep and explained how the lyric go like "throw the child on the wall and tramp over them........."
However, what was surprising was his defence you cannot take the lyrics of the song literally and then go assume Afrikaaners are violent towards children.
His tune changed completely when he came to the struggle chant. That's total hypocricu
I know of a lullaby that implies such ill-treatment of babies. There is no record of that sort of killing, or is there?
Julius doesn't show his love or even just appreciation for what farmers do, when he sings and says "Shoot to kill". In this case, there are numerous farm killings.
Which one incites violence?
If a song was all it took to light a fire under SA citizens butts then they would have rose up decades ago.
Why sing the song, and there won't be the problem
well said i agree with you 100 percent big up and keep up the good work
Of course there are!
Taxi passengers give me that energy that leaves me feeling like an outcast when I read The New Apartheid in a taxi
Good points, but could you articulate them any slower?
Elon is on "the spectrum" how could he understand the nuances of a black struggle song, as a white privileged son, of a white billionaire beneficiary of colonial white privileged? George Orwell's Animal Farm is what comes to my mind when I hear that song. I'm not sure how sensitive the "pigs/farmers" would be about conversations around the ideology that inspired that book, but I don't imagine Elon has the ability to place himself in any other perspective than that which he has inherited. His perspective seems very reductive, angry and "uncaring" to the struggle of the masses, which I won't pretend is unexpected, given that I know that he is "on the spectrum".
First one here to learn😊👌
This is fire Sizwe, respect, if Elon doesn't respond to this then your point will need no further proving. Keep up the good work.
Yes because Elon (A billionaire) has time to respond to somebody he has never heard of and likely will never hear of. You must be a very clever person. (sarcasm).
Just because somebody does not challenge a random youtubers point of view does not make the youtuber right, please learn to think a little for yourself.
So the old SA flag also freedom of expression got it. Thanks
Let's ask a different question. "What good can possibly come from a chant like this?" The answer is none. In the project that should be nation building for all parties in SA, this can only lead to division and or destruction. Scholars of history will know that parties like the EFF only lead a country down a path of wanton self implosion. Where are the commentators who decry this as opposed to somehow justify it? Welsh should use a platform like this to educate those EFF supporters who take to populism like desperate fish to water without playing the road to the future out very carefully. If the EFF come to power, it'll be very interesting to see where the likes of Welsh, ANC and EFF supports with the means to do so are looking to move to. Europe and Australia are very attractive options when you realize there is no future for your children or your grandchildren in a country that voted for a party that justified populist, divisive and unsound economic measures to to gain power and systematically dismantle a country and its potential. Someone so intelligent should see this and take the mantle of responsibility seriously. Otherwise we may just see him across the pond justifying his emigration in the not so distant future...
Thank you Sizwe , thank you Mr Mpofu really the way you explain here, even if one doesn't want to understand the explanation is clear.
Hi Sizwe. I trust you are well. I respectfully disagree with you 🤝. Here's why..South Africa right now is ready to implode. We are divided as a nation, we are at each others throats with each race group and their own sad stories, each race group with their long lists of whos doing this, whos doing that, whos causing more problems, whos crippling the country etc. Everyday we at it. EVERYDAY! Without fail. EVERYDAY! Julius is somebody who knows how to capitalize on such. The majority of hes supporters are poor, unemployed, hungry and ANGRY. Now does a true leader of the "people" (which people since theres a serious narrative that South Africa is only BLACK) take advantage of that for hes own agenda? OR does he turn that desperation and despair into hope, positivity, optimism for a better future. A man cant be a good man when he claims to stand for, represent or be part of ANYTHING positive, truthful, hopelful when your other hand creates chaos, destruction, animosity and lies. IT DOES NOT & WILL NOT WORK! The UNIVERSE will NOT allow it. I dont care about what Elon has to say neither do i care about Julius as an individual. What i care about is my future, future of my son, for the kids hes age and the generation after me thats stuck and cant get in to move us forward because of old fat greedy gate keeper politicians BUT also my generations laziness to fight for the change we want to see, smell and taste in this country. Dont ever think that a man like Julius and hes followers 1day wont feel they have had enough of the "kill the boer " song and because nothing has happened to them cant divert their attention to ALL non blacks in this country. THEN WHAT?!...It doesnt take much for the EFF to go into chaos and it doesnt take much for individuals who WANT to see the world and country burn to jump in on it. THEN WHAT?!...somebodys mama, pappa, brother, sister, CHILD dies. Whos going to hold Julius accountable? WHO?! You see how the laws dont apply to politicians in this country. Blatant disregard. They even lie in that courtroom chair and go home, eat, sh*t wake up 2mw and laugh. Julius incites violence, chaos, animosity and hatred. Theres no leader in that man. ✌
You only came here to comment, you never listened to Sizwe. If you think by character assassinating Malema, you stop him from being the President of SA, think again. You must start adopting to that fact. Mandela was called a prisoner, a terrorist but it never stopped him from being the President.
Thankyou Sizwe,
I can see why Elon’s mum said no one liked him as a child. He needs to slither off and take care of his 10 kids
Elon may be technically wrong but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a moral point to make here. In the context of gruesome farm murders in South Africa is it responsible or ethical for a major party leader to sing the words he does. The song in and of itself I could let go but with the very real farm murders I cannot agree with you my friend and Elon is right to call this out!
You do know tbat those "gruesome" farm murders also include black farmers as well?
@@SarahMally859 although it is true some black farmers are murdered it is mostly white farmers that have been subjected to torture as massacre. Whatever the case maybe the rhetoric is totally insensitive to the plight of farmers to which everyone relies for food!
White farmer killings make up less than 1% of all South African homicides.
You are right Danielschauffer8216 and that is part of the heart of the matter. A part Sizwe will clearly never understand.
Why then must we no show the old flag of apartheid and do away with old thing of the apartheid eara but you do not stop sinking hate songs.why dont we leave all the things of the passed
Because pushing an emotional mindset amongst uneducated people is a Marxist strategy, Marx even wrote about it. Communism 101
The struggle song of the "boers" was compiled in 1835 already after the brutal attack on the laager next to Bloodriver. So to be honest I think lets make the playing field level, let us not discriminate against a certain group if one can sing freedom songs so can the other group.
I don't think Dr, that you should explain yourself to anyone. It would be better if you were EFF anyway!
😂😂You would swear it was an insult to espouse equal rights for black people.
Brilliant !
Elon beds to take 2 seats! He’s in America now. What goes on in SA is no longer his concern. If WS have an issue with the song then they should go back to their own country problem solved!
Listen to yourself- me ,i everthing about you!
The same people that sing that song are the same people that complain when those people thay want to kill refuse to associate with them. How do you associate with people that sing songs about killing you your family and friends or are they just not intelligent enough to realize it? There are brutal attacks on farmers and in many cases those cowards also attack defenceless women and children.
ColonizErs need to get out of Africa period!
Plenty of people don't associate with certain political parties and do just fine. It's not really anything worth announcing.
Kill the boer has no history of the literal meaning connected to it. This song has been sung and interpreted by many people including its pioneers. While on the other side Apartheid flag evoke evil memories of the atrocities committed by Apartheid regime to blacks people. The fear of white people is the united black people fighting for economic freedom hence this debate. We shouldn’t be having this debate at especially that Advocate Mfesane Ka Siboto buried Afriforum about this same song in court.
Mna Sizwe into endizange ndiyithande yi interview yakho ku Gayton McKenzie. Pha mntwanomhle zange wenze kakuhle tu...
Let’s get it started
So what does kiil the boer mean. Kill means kill. Stop trying to spin this. Malema means exactly what he says.
So Malema still shoots his stupid mouth,no problem? And who is defending Malema!?
Chief when are you going to interview Adv Dali again? It's high time I call you to order now.
keep doing what you doing brother leader, those who impose their views on your articulations its their on problem, i love your work Dr Mpofu
Methodologically sound analysis Dr
Well articulated Dr
Yer you are deep kwerini yehlubi big up
Yah neh, the future of your child is the only thing that matters to you!! What about when he meets other children from deprived families in school, should he made jokes about them and be justified (by you); or rather, a separate school be built for your son and those that can afford elite school fees so he cannot come into contact with those of the deprived families? I'm putting to you to wake up to the reality that you do not live in a solitary world! Poor people are disenfranchised by unequal opportunities and circumstances created by capitalist and apartheid endeavors to capacitate the few at expense of the many poor. And this song is music to their ears as it highlights their frustrations without them being violent; Malema making such iconic presentation of the plights of the destitute and then chant this song is 1. reminding that the abandoned struggle still lives on, and 2. is reassuring that a true leader who cares and can attend to the poor's plights can be found in his calibre and the EFF's vision. The poor therefore identifies with the song, the level of crime in SA cannot be attributed to Malema, the research studies have revealed some connection between low level of living standards and crime. The root problem, the real issues are exclusivity, poverty and inequality. Let them be addressed in real sense!!
I sense you will be voting for the Malema and the EFF as you would like to see where and how far they can take the country!?! After all everyone deserves the chance, even if we don't agree with/ have doubts about them, especially in the light of that that we trusted have failed!!!
Yes
Why would someone think you are biased, you are literally the only analyst that shows all sides and let us reach our own conclusions
Seriously?
You simply have to listen to the single line in video "black people" are not violent and the assumption that white people somehow are. ALL Crime stats, killing of foreigners, facts and general feel towards each other paint a very different picture. Its wishful thinking but we are not living in a fairytale.
Its much like saying this song does not incite violence, its just hateful/violent words/threats towards a specific race and people are free to do as they choose.
Seriously?
You simply have to listen to the single line in video "black people" are not violent and the assumption that white people somehow are. ALL Crime stats, killing of foreigners, facts and general feel towards each other paint a very different picture. Its wishful thinking but we are not living in a fairytale.
Its much like saying this song does not incite violence, its just hateful/violent words/threats towards a specific race and people are free to do as they choose.
@kagisoletlhake3599 you have not listened to the whole 38minutes clearly..
Let us fly the south african flag
Very informative channel my brother.
Our should never be doing in this day an age...
We wanting to go forward in the country and build 1 nation
Imagine if the boers carried their old flag to events.. how would you feel.
You think a lot.you are not Elon Musk
And German War animals genocide are different Mother tongue different Tribes, races and and cultures Julius Malema tackle only Our SWA Boers.
People must sing that song whenever they want
Can anyone explain this to me... is a boer a race or a certain ethnic group ? I'm asking bcz a boer has no colour... a boer is a farmer and south africa has farmers of all different ethnic groups... this is my argument to those that translate the chant out of context. I became politically active in the 80's and I sang this song and many more but I've nevrr killed a single farmer since then and never will.
We all know what is meant by boer and that is an Afrikaans/Dutch farmer.
All Afrikaners identify as Boers, meaning, European descendants. The British descendants do not fall under this category, because during the Anglo Boer war, that is what we called ourselves as well as what the British called us.
It has nothing to do with a person's occupation. Boer is an old Dutch word from the 1600's meaning farming yes, but the meaning changed as we adopted that name as part of our heritage. Whether you are Afrikaans on a farm or work in a call center in the city with zero farming experience, we all identify as Boers.
This is why, the chant is triggering an entire demographic in South Africa, meaning, Afrikaans speaking people. It is not just a call on the murder of farmers by occupation, but all white people of western European descent(Around 5 million people in South Africa).
The ANC during the struggle was also aware of this, the struggle song was not aimed only at farmer occupations, but Afrikaners(Boers). Make sense?
@@noneofyourbusiness768 yes my man you are making sense... but like I said I've sung that song with millions of other black people in the 80s in my case and not once did we commit a genocide of white people.. instead those that were singing delarey were the ones that killed our people in 1000s. There were many similar songs like " thina bantu sizimisele ukuwabulala lamabhulu " loosely translated to "we are determined to kill these boers" and yet we never killed no one.
@@siyabongakoyo238maybe YOU didn't... But some other very stupid savage people have...
@@siyabongakoyo238 Then we should do a study on all the struggle songs and see what hate speech on those. Can you give a few struggle songs or chants names, I will go listen to them, especially at eff rallies
So slow genocide is good!?
How did you reach that conclusion based on the analysis?
If the old south african flag is banned then why should kill the boer be allowed? I think you are very wrong in that issue. The song is deeply offensive to the majority of white people.
Because you clearly didn't listen to what Sizwe said. The song has never resulted in the killing of white South Africans, the Apartheid flag however was an actual symbol of a hate regime that actually committed atrocities against racial groups. It's why the Nazi symbol is banned in Germany.
@@SarahMally859 The song has killed people it was proven by the TRC. Also a farmer was killed and his blood was used to write kill the boer on a wall. The old south african flag existed before apartheid so your argument is nonsense.
while i welcome your tone, 38min of trying to justify something that is wrong is still wrong. The racial climate today is now mostly due to neglegence by government (ANC and its sister parties EFF), its race based politics. If the ANC managed SA correctly none of the SOE's would have been bankrupt, there would have been more jobs, less frustration and less finger pointing to race. But instead guys at the top decided that money is more important and that if that bucket runs dry, they will just blame apartheid all over again. Race based politics is just to keep everyone blind from what is happening behind the curtains. I will not justify any form racism as its just weak character.
Centring concerns about the song on INTENTION is both complicated and intricate. The psychology of intent in the singing of the song (as being sang in the post apartheid era) paralleled with capacity could be damaging.
But given that the nation is still governable (at least in the Hobbesian sense) it is plausible to sing the song and argue figures of speech 😂
Country's is run by the least capable people in the country, we have water issues, power issues, road issues, school/education issues, absurd unemployment, corruption and underprivileged. I think singing songs of division and hate should be the last thing we need.
Clever of the ANC and gents like Sizwe though, keep country uneducated and you will forever be in power using fear mongering.
You majored in PPE, not to be confused with personal protective equipment! Surely you qualify to give a professional opinion on politics.
I think everything is going in the rong direction.There was not mutch rong before elections.This song came trough strong so farmers in south africa take it seriously because that song is direct.not in one other country we here this this is a cind of war cry that is been denied as nothing.Botswana got a lot of white farmers and if you sing it there you will be locked up the protect they're farmers and that is one of the best countries in africa.And in Zimbabwe there is already new white farmers working the land and very soon that will be a good country and what I believe this one africa onley exist in south africa there wil never be one africa.becouse this song is voting motivated for next year's elections my point is respect the man that work to keep south africa going
Good analysis mfo ka Mpofu...We hv a problem in our country, remember when there was an incident at stellenbosch university of a white pupil pee'ng on a black pupil books... The DA, FF+ and the Afriforum never condemned that ... Which tells me that we a far from solving the problem of race in South Africa...
Wow a little pee huh
When people disagree about something, particularly in polarised groups, they often shoot themselves in the foot (that's idiomatic, Sizwe, as with killing two birds with one stone) on both sides, by using absolutely ridiculous arguments.
A productive debate is conducted when the aim is mutual understanding, not necessarily total agreement. The claim that whites are all wrong and blacks are all right is as asinine as the converse.
I hear you, and I get your view…as a white south african, I am not scared of the song, nor of the EFF…I do not believe the song calls for genocide, nor do I think there is a want or need for anyone in SA to want genocide.
That being said, we cannot mention this song, without mentioning the song by Bok van Blek, De La Rey…Bok stopped singing the song in public, because of how the song was received by non-afrikaners.
We had the truth and reconciliation in SA, but since, it feels like the atrocities of the past were swept under the rug….the conversation around BEE is a prime example…we need a policy, or at the very least, a government policy that correct the economic inequalities of the past, and to a large extent, economic iniquities we face today still.
Keep the conversation going!
There is a song named "ka valungu". It says we must kill cats if there is no chicken in the land of Whites. Everyone dances and know there is no incitement to the song, there are more songs which can sound more provocative, but it is part of our culture. We will sing these songs whether Whites are here or gone. Leave our culture alone!
Thanks for the view Sizwe.
This is rubbish and we all know this particular song is taken literally. The fact of the matter is there are thousands of farm murders in South Africa. They torture them to death. Julius Malema needs to show that he is a true leader and denounce the rhetoric that promotes this. Even if there’s a small chance that the words he uses might be misunderstood by some it’s still his responsibility as a leader to ensure he does not say things like this. It’s not that the struggle song in itself is the biggest evil in the world. It’s the fact that we actually do have farm murders in the first place that is the problem. When you combine what his literally saying to what literally happens in the real world it sounds like he is in support of these murders. Has he ever denounced them? I rest my case.
I hesitated to watch this video knowing how incredibly difficult it must be not to kowtow to that big apartheid money, and yet no gaslighting here!
Thank you Sizwe😘