Why I Started Squatting ATG (Taint to Floor Or It Don't Count Broski)
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- Range of motion is a pretty contentious topic in the weight training and fitness world. Some people strive to maximize it. others strive to minimize it. And others fall somewhere squarely in the middle.
You have some prominent figureheads such as the KneesOverToesGuy and Dr. Mike Israetel (@RenaissancePeriodization ) who espouse the merits of using LARGE ranges of motion where possible. The KneesOverToesGuy in reference to how it potentially affects health and performance, and Dr. Mike Israetel in reference to how it impacts strength and hypertrophy.
In recent history a relatively new niche has has also opened up and gained popularity where you have guys who basically combine mobility training into strength training and these individuals tend to encourage not just large ranges of joint motion, but actually attempting to enhance and subsequently maximize exercise range of motion during training even into some potentially extreme positions.
On the flipside of this coin you have guys like Dr. Joel Seedman who scream repeatedly that large or even moderate ranges of motion are BAD and DESTRUCTIVE and that the optimal way to train basically involves performing every large compound exercise through approximately 1/3 or less of its natural range of motion. You also see the act of range of motion minimization very prolifically in the sport of powerlifting, mostly on the bench press and deadlift, because shorter ranges of motion often lead to more weight being lifted.
I have personally undergone a pretty sharp evolution in my own views of range of motion on the major compound exercises in these last few years. In today's video I want to discuss my experiences as a range of motion minimalist, my evolution to range of motion maximalist, the benefits I have personally noticed during this evolution into greater ranges of motion, and the symbiotic nature that the two sides of this coin play over the course of one's fitness journey.
If you enjoy the video or find it informative please be sure to hit the like button and subscribe to my channel and leave me some love in the comments as well!
#atg #squat #fitness #enkirielitefitness
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RESOURCES & REFERENCES
Should You Listen To KneesOverToesGuy? || Is He LEGIT?
• Should You Listen To K...
Mike Israetel EXPOSES Joel Seedman as a Charlatan || Joel Admits He is a TROLL
• Mike Israetel EXPOSES ...
Joel Seedman Needs To Stop (SERIOUSLY!)
• Joel Seedman NEEDS to ...
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Going for MAX ROM!
3:49 My evolution: minimalist to maximalist
10:56 The benefits I noticed from max ROM
13:20 Why partial ROM still has value
16:34 If I could do it again... - Розваги
Do me a favor guys, if you enjoyed the video please remember to smash the like button and let's get this channel growing! Have a great weekend everyone!
Having naturally more general mobility is the most underrated benefit of doing large ROMS indeed. Doing deficit RDLs, ATG smith machine squats, and full ROM pulldown/rows (really stretching the upper back on the negative), and dips (shoulders at the hand level or lower). I barely have to do as much warmup and I certainly don't feel those aches and pains. It also makes me use less weight and get more out of it I find. A win on so many fronts.
Agreed! The joints simply require less nudging to get them going when you typically train with max ROMs. Even if you do smaller ROMs on your primary work and then use max ROM stuff on secondary and tertiary movements, and you can get the benefits of both worlds!
I'd rather get more out of less weight for most heavy compounds... some exceptions, but ROM>weight for me
I think this is the best general rule of thumb for most fitness related goals.
@@EnkiriElite but mah pErTeeals needs werk gaaaahssss
But heavier weight under reduced ROM isn’t the same as heavier weight under equal or similar ROM. If your main lift goes up from bringing up reduced ROM it has to mean you gained muscle in some way which is puzzling
@kurokaminajimi8014 you'll probably make gains doing all sorts of ROMs with the relative intensities, but one might be superior for your goals. I find I can get more out of less weight with full ROM which seems to fatigue me less and improve my mobility/athleticism for my boxing. But I still made gains doing traditional lifts. I found more carry over from full rom -> reduced than reduced -> full. I think you need to train yourself in those terminal end ROM positions to get the benefit of them, especially because of injury risk.
@@Dementia.Pugilistica To be clear btw when I say reduced ROM I mean stuff like a floor press, box squat, below the knee rack pulls, etc. But I agree generally you can’t do wrong with longer ROM and it should be the majority
Learning the Overhead Squat did wonders for me
Certainly a solid way to make sure there are no glaring mobility or joint stability deficits!
Thanks for sharing! Great content.
Great Video, Great Information 👍👍. This is the first video of yours I watched and I can certainly adore your thoughts and experience...
I'm happy I go ATG with my squats.
I love this video!! My argument every time I see anyone doing a half pull up
I like doing a mixture of comp specific training and full/extreme range of motion training concurrently.
There's something to be said for the overload that a reasonably limited range of motion comes with.
I just pulled sumo for the first time and hit a 45lb deadlift pr. 5 plates baby! It took months of cheek to sneak high bar and front squats just to be able to get into that position comfortably and reduce the range of motion on my deadlift. It was also hookgrip on a stiff 30mm economy bar so I feel like I should maybe even get bonus points but w/e.
Me: "Yes, Alec dropped a vid, i can watch this on break"
Alec: Nah, its 19 minute, fool
Sorry man hahaha. Been trying to them shorter lately but this one got away from me!
If you can out bench your boss, you can watch it on the clock.
@@EnkiriElite I prefer long format
@@EnkiriElite I do like long videos just have to wait to watch them
Interesting. I do like the idea of incorporating pin squats and deficit DLs. Something I've never gotten round to doing. I've found mixing ROMs to be pretty useful, though. I do lighter, deeper pause squats and heavier just below/to parallel squats on two separate days per week, as well as close grip bench and regular bench on two different days. Found it a pretty sustainable way to train. You can also get your depth in other movements like hak squats, machine presses etc. I don't think there's any harm in doing some heavier lifting without a huge ROM, as long as it's not all you do.
I started toying with using "extreme" ROM movements after my main PL style movements. Seems like I mostly feel better (though this happened in conjunction with losing 80lbs, so hard to pinpoint), but definitely needs more time to tell. But doing them after my main movements definitely helps with keeping the ego in check, as I have no desire to load them up and go heavy at that point.
For me it was building into positions over time and understanding how the small adaptations in the gym yielded large ROIs outside of it. Sometimes it seems like you aren't changing much inside the weight room, but when you feel those small changes creating big improvements elsewhere it's really helpful for keeping motivation high. But thst took me altering my perspective from the weight I was being the end all be all, to something more comprehensive.
I
Mmm mmm. Fred Seth ccry try 4:13 😅😊😊 4:13 😊😅 4:13 😊😊😂 😂😮😮😢
Killer pink tank, Eric!
somebody needs to make Tom Platz and Joel Seedman debate face to face
What you're describing in this video is something I've learned lately from trying to fix my injuries 😂 Most calisthenics practitioners(such as KneesOverToesGuy, Hybrid Calisthenics, MovementByDavid) put a very strong emphasis on the concept of "Strength at EVERY length". I think the issue with powerlifting that's become more apparent in the past few years due to it's popularity, is that by training on extreme loads in very shortened positions, most powerlifters end up with massive imbalances *and* injuries over time. Nowadays I would recommend very few people actually do strict PL, and most people should opt for being able to be good at controlling their body first. If you can't lift yourself well, how are you supposed to lift weights well?
Most powerlifters also have super low IQs. It comes with the territory of injuring yourself in shortened positions and having super strange looking imbalances. Yah... I know there are a handful of smart power lifters out there sure, but most are retarded.
They don't get injured because they train in shortened positions, that's a reductionist take on injury reduction. Their loading exceeds their capacity which happens at their range
The whole arbitrary idea that you need to do an exercise before moving on to lifting weights is neither supported my evidence. If you want to get better at an exercise you need to do that exercise (SAID principles). You don't need to lift yourself to lift weights its nonsense.
ROM on the big lifts is very tricky. If I were to break it down in one sentence, it'd be to use the form that allows you to move through a decent ROM whereby you still use a solid lump of weight and are feasibly able to increase stress very regularly without form breakdown.
Yep, play around with the depth and don't ignore other areas of fitness! (Opinion) 😊😄
I used ATG to build my squat and get back from knee injury and shitty hip flexion from running.
That said I am not built to do it. I found at 3 plates + I can still squat ATG but the back fatigue incurred isn't worth it, paticularly that which carries to deadlifts. I'm ok for peak sets, but heavy volume ATG squats messes me up. Having said that my 'higher' squat still seems to be below parallel and deeper than most peoples. I'm also always worried I'm squatting too high which makes me sink and pause the weight unconsciously.
Ironically since squatting higher my mobility is better due to less inflamation, but my mobility wouldn't be that good if I didn't do ATG first.
I think I'll go back to ATG once my current squat max plateaus in the hope my work capacity/autoreg will stabilize.
Keeping the lower body and knees functional is most important for health and longevity. It’s more important than cardio. Most people that live over a hundred were still working and walking around in their 90s. We just need to figure out how much work is needed without injuring ourselves and what is most efficient. There is also age, body type and when someone started training to consider.
finally someone gets it. ATG squats are the only thing that matter
Muahahaha
"You won't grow your legs as much because you use too little weight on ATG" < This is a real "argument" that forum experts have used to discourage all the poor kids.
You only use too little weight through a full ROM if you have weak legs lol
I went through the same BS and nothing till this day got me stronger and more mobility than doing all my exercises with gym rings and doing handstand pushups, Front squats and power cleans. I was smaller but was about to pick up love seats and carry them up stairs but when i tried to get bigger and do more powerlifting my body felt like shid.
You could search pelican push ups on rings to evolve your deficit push ups if you want
this is why I do yoga in addition to lifting. They pair well
I got one red light last weekend on my 3rd squat attempt and I’m lucky I didn’t get 2 or 3.
All my best squats in competition were 2 to 1 haha
Great timing. I'm literally about to do an ATG/Knee over Toes inspired workout once I'm done writing this comment.
I did it earlier this week... And holy shit, my knees freaking ached... Which mean 1 of 2 things...
1) I should avoid that ROM at all costs or risk serious injury...
2) I seriously need to work on improving strength through that ROM or risk serious injury...
Welp there's only one way to find out... Wish me luck 😂
Try to dial back the intensity ti a point that is not uncomfortable. Even if that means supporting some of your body weight with your arms. Then build slowly from there.
I vote for the "2)" option.
Good luck, brah, dont give up the fight!
@@EnkiriElite we did good. Knees feel amazing.
Honestly I didn’t respect the movements enough last time. “ahh its just bodyweight i dont have to do a full warmup”
This time got extra warmup 😂. the usual warmup plus 10 minutes on a bike.
Knees felt amazing
For anyone reading this; walking backwards on the treadmill (highest incline) really warms up my knees before doing anything leg related.
I'm 2 years in trying to fix my left knee, using deep ranges of motion with sub maximal weight works well
What happened to your knee?
if even just to feel more badass, ass to grass is king
".....as well as into the bedroom." 🤣🤣🤣
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO
I didn't know you had a son - that's dope
Facts
The Enkiri Curl misses that strech in the bottom time to develop the 2.0 Version
That's easy...just add another band around the forearm. The horizontal force vector pulls the arm back and achieves a maximal biceps stretch in the bottom position. All other attributes of the original al enkiri curl stay in place
@@EnkiriElite genius
I go as low as possible before my hips start to tuck under (butt wink). Which is well below parallel but not quite ATG.
So if someone's a beginner in the weightroom(only did higher volume kettlebell goblet squats at home) would you recommend to use weighlifting shoes/plates under heel right from the beginning to achieve deeper ROM?
My leverages are weird, so when I am at the lowest, it looks like I am only at parallel. I have great Ankle mobility, so I know that it is not the problem. The quad gains are still amazing though. A single set can get me sore.
It's *because* of your ankle mobility thet you look like you are only at parallel! The farther the tibia shifts forward the lower and lower the "parallel" position becomes because the knees are moving closer and closer to the floor. This is a great way to keep an Upright torso and keep the tension on the quads while squatting, but it's not a good way to maximize weight on the bar in a powerlifting meet because you are literally making the comp. Depth ROM greater and greater by squatting this way! This is why hip dominant squats are encouraged in Powerlifting and it's also Why the competition depth standard is still an arbitrary concept.
What is the jacket you have. Looked nuts
Full ROM on all the kifts is best imo.
Hey Enkiri, you should do Anatoly "fake cleaner" videos in your local gym, and grow your channel exponentialy.
You will thank me later!
If you aren't squatting ATG your squats amount to squat.
Hello i have calf pain when i squat atg please help me
What are your squat shoes called?
People dont realize how important longevity is. If you know you're gonna be training for the rest of your life then why rush the weight?
I agree to an extent. Certainly don't "rush" the process of getting stronger, but don't be overly cautious and AVOID it either. You'll make better progress when you have a solid base of strength to lean on.
ATG >
Let me guess you are 5 foot nothing and squat 2 plates but atleast u go "ass to grass" 😂😂😂
@@tomjaap2933
Who hurt you ? 😂
@@tomjaap2933 nie squatten in klompen jongen dan gaat ge wat dieper geraken
Didn't watch the whole video yet but what do people think about possible beneficial uses of shorthened range of motion in power training, like quarter squats for sprinters, or in bodybuilding using shortened range of motion in set to target and keep tension and feel in certain muscles, like for example Arnold benchpressing.
People love to cite that study that shows how quarter squats improved vertical jump, but in my experience there are better options. Doing heavy quarter squats work the intent of improving power (which is what most people want to do) is worthless imo. You can do banded rhythm squats like Joe defranco talked about years ago and i believe there is value there. But in general a loaded jump, which is just a lightly loaded ballistic quarter squat, provides much greater ROI than a heavy quarter squat where power production is concerned.
@EnkiriElite what do you think about accommodating resistance with deep squats in this context? My intuition would be you'd get the best of both worlds because you're still getting full ROM but the quarter squat portion of the lift is the heaviest. I don't know if this would actually translate, but it seems sensible.
I think forcing yourself to accelerate through the rep while it tries to pull you down due to increased band tension or chain weight is probably more of a factor, though.
@@Dementia.Pugilistica I think band Resisted squats could work well
But even then I'm biased towards turning it into a Rhythmic style loaded jump 😂 but it depends on what you want to get out of the movement at that point, i.e. what sort of slot you are programming it into in the larger picture
Yess! I train mainly to compete and still I always do ATG paused front squats as my secondary squat, so deep the only thing stopping me at the bottom are my ankles touching my butt. Full gigachad ROM or GTFO.
It's actually hard not to do front squats ATG.
@@LarsRyeJeppesen I agree, still most people dont even reach parallel.
@@andresruval that's crazy /s
@@LarsRyeJeppesen 🤨
@@andresruval no, I mean people are crazy /s
I am doing ATG Hack Squats and I may say it fells great. I am looking forward to see how strong will I be at regular squats after this. Right now I am stronger than I was at regular lowbarbell squats but with the extreme ROM of the machine.
I don’t trust those dip bars on your squat rack. You should update them
Algo
Boy do I love extra lumbar flexion with little extra benefit so far as development
Not my fault you have stiff hips!
@@EnkiriElite less to do with mobility and more to do with Anthropometry. Most guys over 6 feet tall can’t squat ATG without significant butt wink.
@@centaurfitness4049 and most guys are way stiffer than they think.
Doug Brignole was a good man and he taught that you should not bury yourself under heavy weights where your spine takes the toll. After multiple hernias I realized what a waste of health ancient barbell exercises are and I still squat a lot and even more than before but I use a backbag and a weight belt to distribute the weight safely and thus even if I end up in the good morning position where heavy squats inevitably go my disc won't be blown to hell because there is nothing stretching my spine. Yes some guys have all the luck and some may even have perfect form but most young guys will want to push their limits resulting in life changing injuries in too many cases because they are loading their spines with the weights instead of distributing the weight safely. Your legs will grow the same even if you position the weight intelligently.
I'm very happy that I was able to tell Doug and his young mentee how I love him/them and their work done for the benefit of healthy bodybuilding. That was only months before his passing. His legacy lives on.
Squatting to end range prolly shouldn't even be considered extreme. Sitting in the bottom with your calves and hamstrings touching is a natural position. To be honest most people will be better of doing deep high bar, front- or zercher squats then low bar parallel squats.
I agree with this 💯
A lot of people doesn't have the proportions to do an ATG squat. They are simply not built to do it.
Sure, a point mentioned in the video. One can also squat *as deep as their anatomy safely allows* and create that as a separate distinction from going beyond that which is comfortable for them. In my experience though most people who think they lack the anatomy for a deep squat simply lack mobility.
Too bad my lower back hurts with ATG
Next video "Why you don't have to squat ATG".
I can literally argue for or against anything related to weight training 😅
Taint to the Tile?
one leg squats ass to grass very good to and you neEd less weight on your back
BUT TO MAKE THIS WORK YOU NEED TO Jackie Chan Squats the other leg must be foot straight to the ground this is the only way you can really touch your butt to the floor when doing a single leg squat
i think this debate is stupid because it depends on the objective and what objectively works. For hypertrophy, refer to the mirror to see if something works, for strength, refer to your lifting journal, for power, refer to your feats of power which are easily measured. If something has been working for 120490 years, it probably still works. If something new that you decided to start doing works, then share it with everybody or something
there is no magic and fairies in lifting, there is stimulus and adjustments that your body makes, be it hypertrophy, be it more fiber activation, be it better work memory and skill
This video wasn't really a debate lol. I gave my personal experiences squatting through partial ROM, my personal experiences squatting through max ROM, and explained why I now incorporate both. Wasn't a debate. Just an anecdote of personal experience.
@@EnkiriElite exactly, i am talking about the debate the video is about sorry for the confusion Enkiri!
Alec, you know the only reason you do full rom is to prove Dr Sneedman wrong
The good doctor
Silly Alec, it's 2023 not 2020!
Next you're gonna tell me that trix are for kids.
you are ''goodmorning'' your squats in all your videos.....
Yet the world continues to turn. Crazy!
pink?
no blue
5 foot midgets saying atg is only what counts is comical at best
I’m 6ft and squat atg with no issues. I’ve even had acl reconstruction and my rehab for that involved building back up to full depth squats.
@@danielhoward8149 yeah his sentiment is often a cope.
First
2th
3th
It is actually somewhat simple: building up -> "full"/large/endrange ROM. Performance -> skill training, ROM as big as necessary.
The last 1/4 of squat Rom takes out quad bias for me, so that’s why I don’t go ATG