@@TommathanOW all he meant by the quote was us gamers need to band together and build a thriving scene, but then bren said "JAYNE IS GOING TO INVENT ESPORTS" on stream in a clip that went viral from sideshow's stream weirdly enough, and now thats what jayne meant.
I think its honestly fair if u consider he has the 2 extra years over super. If you consider their careers strictly before ow2 I agree 100%. But with super retiring before ow2 fearless goes above him personally. Smurf is a hard one to debate, it really depends on the fact that smurf placed 4th and 5th brings his career lower while fearless placed 1st and 2nd possibly bringing his career above smurf's whole career.
@@AnikethBandifearless went 0-40 and played in contenders and can only play two heroes there is no way you put him above Smurf, 2020 his inability to play the roadhog aswell as profit being the best player in the world is the reason Shanghai didn’t make grand finals, number two for sure
@@AnikethBandi Smurf was the better player. Winston, Orisa.. anything. He was better. His team may be worse but his personal gameplay was better. Simple as that. Plus, smurf knows how to beat London and Fearless doesnt so that trumps it all :)
I def agree that super probably would stand out even more if he had been on a different team than smurf, he had a really solid winston that we got to see in 2021, and a world cup winning orisa, and he has picked up a lot of flex tanks now in ow2. its a shame he lost the drive to compete, and i think shock probably could have gotten another ring with him on winston instead of mikeyy
The only one who may have not gotten a mention who deserved it was Mano. If dude didn't have to do military service I feel like he still could be carrying teams to this day.
I think people underrated how much Fate is just a great planner and in game leader. Every one who has played with him has said as much. While mechanically on things like Rein he's not out of this world, his Winston, Orisa, and of course Ball were all at the very least A tier. And his in game planning tips him pretty high imo
Sad mano didn’t get a mention even if he might not be top 5, guy is gods strongest soldier for what he had to put up with in his career and he still taught the league the role, underrated af
I'd low-key swap Fate and Someone, Fate was the weakest member of the dragons, was horrendous at ow 2, didn't do much outside of that other than the s1 stage 4 funny title. Someone was more impactful, won MVP and was the best player at his role and several of the tanks. That being said fate is still top 5.
I was kinda torn about this too. While thinking about guxue or someone for 5th pick I felt like I could argue guxue over Fate better than guxue over someone, but fates longevity made me wanna put him above someone so it was weird
Fate played on the Valiant in 2018, and they ended that season 2nd place overall, behind NYXL who were by far the best team all regular season. Fate was great through all of OW1, including being part of arguably the best single season for a team. He fell off at the end, but still an all-time great
i have a weird relationship with the Florida Mayhem as a georgian and Reign fan. i’m supposed to hate them, but for years they weren’t what anybody would consider a threat. then shit starts to pop off in the later seasons and you just can’t help but love the players on the team. as much as i wanted to see Atlanta hold the trophy before it was all over i’m glad it went to Florida for the final season.
Hi, great video :) But you mentioned Stats Lab is gone, however I still have the link to the Source and its all still working. But they stopped collecting the stats there mid S6 I guess... :/ I can post it here if you allow it
Hey I think you should make a top 5 splitting the ow1 and ow2 era because the way tank is played during these two eras is pretty different and it also gives a lot of the guys who played strictly during ow2 a more fair chance to be placed higher. Like someone would no doubt be number 1 in the ow2 era alone but because hes only got those 2 years hes kinda shafted here. Also players who retired early still get their props for playing good back then, like mano and Gesture.
Criminal Mano did not get a mention at least. 4 seasons as a top 5 or better main tank with consistency few others ever matched. He is just Sado in season 3 but for 4 seasons in a row on NYXL and Fusion. But thank god Guxue did not end up in the top 5.
I agree with the concept that whoever the 'current best players' are being the best is correct in theory, but I also think that we are doing the history of OWL an injustice by only referencing OW2. Before you get the pitchforks, hear me out. As much as we don't want to admit it, Overwatch had a great sum of its competitive player base leave in waves throughout 2019 specifically, and I'd argue that the skill saturation has fallen since then. That being said, these players all had their 'peaks' during different metas, different environments etc, but it is silly to watch gameplay of any of the Winston players in 2024 and genuinely consider them more mechanically and intuitively skilled than the OW1 Winston pros such as Guxue, Gesture, etc. Same can be said for damage dealers. We literally have the game on easy mode, and the top players' gameplay still can't eclipse peak Dafran, Birdring, Profit, etc Say what you want, I think that we almost need a separate list for anything pre 2021.
What are you even saying, watch striker MVP winner tracer gameplay compared to proper/kevster one or watch ashe compared to MN3 or every other "modern" hitscan DPS, the difference is really clear and you can see that "the new generation" is way more mechanical skilled, you are just biased and nostalgic, even if the game itself got worse and the player base declined, the ones who remained got WAY better.
I’m sorry but if your part 0-40 Shanghai not able to just win one game against mayhem or smthn and then get sent to contenders you can’t be number one. Deffinetely top 3 but I can’t justify putting him above Smurf
There is no way fearless would have been 0-40 with any other support line in season 1. The 2018 Shanghai dragons has the accolade of the 3 worst supports to ever touch the league and it’s not even close. They were playing at a level comparable to 2016 open beta supports. I’m not saying I disagree with Smurf being above fearless, but the 2018 season being used to justify that is like breaking every bone in Michael Phelps’ body and removing his frontal lobe and then saying you’re not impressed the next time he goes for a swim.
@@buhwuhbuhduhbuhluhbuhruhbu1298 nah i dont give a dookie, he didnt pass the eye test and couldnt carry to at least a win asgainst mayhem, not entirely his fault nor is it the only reason smurf should be above him
@@tachyon7368 And what Smurf did after 2020 where his super team disbanded? Nothing. He was good in the plumbers era and with is stacked team. Even if fearless has a bad score, he has a grand final MVP and a mechanically objectively way better Winston rein and probably doom.
As much as i love fearless my goat will always be fate, watching his POV in season 1 let me learn tank and bought me into top 500 as i am today. im biased as hell but Fate my goat
Great vid! Although I don't really understand your reasoning for putting Fearless above Smurf. You say Smurf is better on Winston because he has a more flexible playstyle. And while Fearless is better on Rein (and maybe Doom), surely Smurf is better on literally every other tank. Is Fearless really THAT much better on Rein? lol Also Someone > Fate
Smurf having a more flexible Winston playstyle doesn't mean he's better than Fearless, it's just a niche that sets the 2 apart. Fearless will always be better as a hard carry Winston, which is probably the more ideal of the 2 playstyles in most metas when done right. It's like in 2022 Playoffs whenever Fearless or Guxue had primal it was a world ending level threat that could completely boom the ult economy, and while smurf's primal mechanics are obviously good, its not the same. Just stuff like that made give Fearless the edge. Smurf at 1 is def valid tho, you can't go wrong with either of em
I think.. You have to look at it who would you want when it comes down to those championship or clutch moments. Who would you bet on solo carrying and just going that extra mile on whatever tank you choose. While he doesn't have as much depth as Smurf, I'd argue on PURE main tanks, Fearless is the better pick. Like Orisa is the only one I'd say Smurf is handedly better than Fearless at too. (As far as Main Tanks go)
Please never let the "Jayne Inventing eSports" joke die, it make me laugh my ass of every time I hear it
its just too good scientists are still working on what compelled him to say that
@@TommathanOW all he meant by the quote was us gamers need to band together and build a thriving scene, but then bren said "JAYNE IS GOING TO INVENT ESPORTS" on stream in a clip that went viral from sideshow's stream weirdly enough, and now thats what jayne meant.
legends of the game, all of them.
Super is officially the best plumber to ever play Overwatch
Best toenail chewer 🔥🔥🔥
@@squeaky_window3552*toenail flosser, what else can tf stand for
also i like his individual achievments
I would’ve added guxue just cus he’s cute but what do I know 🤷
when guxue puts on the cosplay the top 5 can change up real quick all im sayin
@@TommathanOWguxue>reiner😞👎
@@TommathanOW If guxue gets in top 5 for cosplay super takes number 1 easy
Putting fearless above either Smurf and/ or super is criminal
I think its honestly fair if u consider he has the 2 extra years over super. If you consider their careers strictly before ow2 I agree 100%. But with super retiring before ow2 fearless goes above him personally. Smurf is a hard one to debate, it really depends on the fact that smurf placed 4th and 5th brings his career lower while fearless placed 1st and 2nd possibly bringing his career above smurf's whole career.
@@AnikethBandifearless went 0-40 and played in contenders and can only play two heroes there is no way you put him above Smurf, 2020 his inability to play the roadhog aswell as profit being the best player in the world is the reason Shanghai didn’t make grand finals, number two for sure
@@AnikethBandi Smurf was the better player. Winston, Orisa.. anything. He was better. His team may be worse but his personal gameplay was better. Simple as that. Plus, smurf knows how to beat London and Fearless doesnt so that trumps it all :)
@@AnikethBandi😅
I def agree that super probably would stand out even more if he had been on a different team than smurf, he had a really solid winston that we got to see in 2021, and a world cup winning orisa, and he has picked up a lot of flex tanks now in ow2. its a shame he lost the drive to compete, and i think shock probably could have gotten another ring with him on winston instead of mikeyy
you should do a top 5 best series too
It's tough bc imo as the game evolves itd just be the top 5 at any given moment almost always, but ill def do that as OWCS goes on
@@TommathanOWyou could do top 5 most dominant, the best relative to their time. Like jjonak season 1, leave season 4, ans season 3, etc
The only one who may have not gotten a mention who deserved it was Mano. If dude didn't have to do military service I feel like he still could be carrying teams to this day.
Seagull on Anubis is such a deep cut good lord
My list:
1- Smurf
2- Fearless
3- Someone
4- Super
5- Mano
HM: Fate, Guxue
No Mano over fate and no Smurf over fearless
Someone over super is mad
bumper
Super won 2 years back to back, and is behind Somone? Wut
@@kotor2fan1Stop dickriding him, he had a stacked team, he wasn't the star of his team, someone along with mer1t was.
u gotta finish this series
I will promise
@@TommathanOWalso separate hitscan and flex dps, or just do top 10 dps
So glad you rate fate because people sleep on him so much he's such a smart player
He had a really weird career with a bunch of ups and downs + wasn't a carry player at all so I kinda get it
@@TommathanOW yeah well said
I think people underrated how much Fate is just a great planner and in game leader. Every one who has played with him has said as much. While mechanically on things like Rein he's not out of this world, his Winston, Orisa, and of course Ball were all at the very least A tier. And his in game planning tips him pretty high imo
your vids are too funny man i love it
PRAYING SUPER REACTS TO THIS
jayne do be inventin
Tommathan got the best metaphors in the game.
WOOO sADO MENTIONED
2:26 this is fucked
All the shade at Kris 😂
Where's the bait
good video
Sad mano didn’t get a mention even if he might not be top 5, guy is gods strongest soldier for what he had to put up with in his career and he still taught the league the role, underrated af
Yea I def should have mentioned him at the end, he'd be easily within the next 5 after these guys
Mano is definitely underrated
I'd low-key swap Fate and Someone, Fate was the weakest member of the dragons, was horrendous at ow 2, didn't do much outside of that other than the s1 stage 4 funny title. Someone was more impactful, won MVP and was the best player at his role and several of the tanks. That being said fate is still top 5.
I was kinda torn about this too. While thinking about guxue or someone for 5th pick I felt like I could argue guxue over Fate better than guxue over someone, but fates longevity made me wanna put him above someone so it was weird
Fate played on the Valiant in 2018, and they ended that season 2nd place overall, behind NYXL who were by far the best team all regular season. Fate was great through all of OW1, including being part of arguably the best single season for a team. He fell off at the end, but still an all-time great
Based list, Super and Fate are gonna be gone soon. Smurf might overtake Fearless because he left for service and Smurf might win OWCS.
tbf from now on main tank as a distinction might not even be relevant
i have a weird relationship with the Florida Mayhem as a georgian and Reign fan. i’m supposed to hate them, but for years they weren’t what anybody would consider a threat. then shit starts to pop off in the later seasons and you just can’t help but love the players on the team. as much as i wanted to see Atlanta hold the trophy before it was all over i’m glad it went to Florida for the final season.
damb this mans managed to say "guxue isnt a top 5 main tank" 4 separate times in one video
He is so biased to guxue lmao
Hi, great video :) But you mentioned Stats Lab is gone, however I still have the link to the Source and its all still working. But they stopped collecting the stats there mid S6 I guess... :/ I can post it here if you allow it
PLEASE DO I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT A LOT YOURE THE GOAT
@@TommathanOW It looks like UA-cam deleted my comment with the link
@@TommathanOW I sent it on Discord
@yo imma need that link
Where can I find
Hey I think you should make a top 5 splitting the ow1 and ow2 era because the way tank is played during these two eras is pretty different and it also gives a lot of the guys who played strictly during ow2 a more fair chance to be placed higher. Like someone would no doubt be number 1 in the ow2 era alone but because hes only got those 2 years hes kinda shafted here. Also players who retired early still get their props for playing good back then, like mano and Gesture.
Holy bad list (I haven’t watched it yet)
@@TommathanOWactually perfect list. Can’t disagree cause I don’t remember the league anymore it’s been dead so long 😞
bumper is in his own list at this point
Criminal Mano did not get a mention at least. 4 seasons as a top 5 or better main tank with consistency few others ever matched. He is just Sado in season 3 but for 4 seasons in a row on NYXL and Fusion. But thank god Guxue did not end up in the top 5.
Yeah I probably should have mentioned him at the end, he's def in the top 10 easily
I agree with the concept that whoever the 'current best players' are being the best is correct in theory, but I also think that we are doing the history of OWL an injustice by only referencing OW2.
Before you get the pitchforks, hear me out.
As much as we don't want to admit it, Overwatch had a great sum of its competitive player base leave in waves throughout 2019 specifically, and I'd argue that the skill saturation has fallen since then. That being said, these players all had their 'peaks' during different metas, different environments etc, but it is silly to watch gameplay of any of the Winston players in 2024 and genuinely consider them more mechanically and intuitively skilled than the OW1 Winston pros such as Guxue, Gesture, etc.
Same can be said for damage dealers. We literally have the game on easy mode, and the top players' gameplay still can't eclipse peak Dafran, Birdring, Profit, etc
Say what you want, I think that we almost need a separate list for anything pre 2021.
For context- I am nobody in the scene now, but was in Contenders in 2019 as a main tank player.
What are you even saying, watch striker MVP winner tracer gameplay compared to proper/kevster one or watch ashe compared to MN3 or every other "modern" hitscan DPS, the difference is really clear and you can see that "the new generation" is way more mechanical skilled, you are just biased and nostalgic, even if the game itself got worse and the player base declined, the ones who remained got WAY better.
Mano, Guxue, Fissure, Bumper ??
bumper and fissure didnt play enough, mano is early season merchant, and guxue was my 6th
lhcloudy snubbed >:(
so real :(
Bumper at peak Titans deserves a mention ngl
not even giving bumper an honourable mention is crazy
imo he really isnt close bc he just had 1 good season in like a meta and a half compared to most of these guys having sustained success
I’m sorry but if your part 0-40 Shanghai not able to just win one game against mayhem or smthn and then get sent to contenders you can’t be number one. Deffinetely top 3 but I can’t justify putting him above Smurf
There is no way fearless would have been 0-40 with any other support line in season 1. The 2018 Shanghai dragons has the accolade of the 3 worst supports to ever touch the league and it’s not even close. They were playing at a level comparable to 2016 open beta supports. I’m not saying I disagree with Smurf being above fearless, but the 2018 season being used to justify that is like breaking every bone in Michael Phelps’ body and removing his frontal lobe and then saying you’re not impressed the next time he goes for a swim.
@@buhwuhbuhduhbuhluhbuhruhbu1298 nah i dont give a dookie, he didnt pass the eye test and couldnt carry to at least a win asgainst mayhem, not entirely his fault nor is it the only reason smurf should be above him
@@tachyon7368Fearless is objectively way better than Smurf. You are just biased.
@@leonardoiannella no, smurf is more flexible and wasnt so bad that at one point he had to be relegated to contenders
@@tachyon7368 And what Smurf did after 2020 where his super team disbanded? Nothing. He was good in the plumbers era and with is stacked team. Even if fearless has a bad score, he has a grand final MVP and a mechanically objectively way better Winston rein and probably doom.
1. Smurf
2. Fearless
3. Super
4. Fate
5. Mano
Cashew Delisi, GOAT
My list
1. super
2. toenails
3. stef the 2 big towers
4. smurf
5. cute smurf
checkmate rein was completely robbed on this list smh
My boys hydration and Taimou snuffed. Only DPS players to play main tank 🔥🔥
Nah our juicer clears everyone on this list xqcL
Mano and fissure def deserved at least a mention
u missed sinnatra, my rein goat
2 Florida main tanks I'll take it
Fissures EGO reinhardt
Bumper #1 in my heart
As much as i love fearless my goat will always be fate, watching his POV in season 1 let me learn tank and bought me into top 500 as i am today. im biased as hell but Fate my goat
Feels like someone is missin the mark.(pun) but seriously felt like there were many great main tanks but none come to mind.
Supertf my goat
Smurf is definitely #1. Very close to Fearless on Winston and better on every other tank.
1. Hanbin
2. Fearless
3. Smurf
4. Super
5. Fate
Honour mention : Hadi
Pls do off-tank
Bumper robbed😔
I love super
lip is a generational mickey mouse goat driving training wheel heroes with the 02 lakers as his front and backline
Fleta best main tank oat
The fact that hotba had a career for as long as he did should be in bold in the history books
Checkmate
Not a bad list but not even an hm for Roshan? smh, easily top 5
Xepher
I got 1. Smurf 2.Super 3. Fearless 4. Someone 5. gesture purely off impact i have super over fearless
yes yes yes. Was looking for this list. I'd put guxue over gesture but this is the most accurate list so far
Someone/Gator > Reiner seems like an easy choice
After main tank, of coz it would be off tank!
Bumper is the true goat
im not informed at all in owl but did xqc play for long before he got kicked? lol and he was pretty good right?
i think xqc played maybe 15 matches tops in owl lmao
He had a decent Winston for the time (take that as you will).
not fate but guxue
Great vid! Although I don't really understand your reasoning for putting Fearless above Smurf. You say Smurf is better on Winston because he has a more flexible playstyle. And while Fearless is better on Rein (and maybe Doom), surely Smurf is better on literally every other tank. Is Fearless really THAT much better on Rein? lol
Also Someone > Fate
Smurf having a more flexible Winston playstyle doesn't mean he's better than Fearless, it's just a niche that sets the 2 apart. Fearless will always be better as a hard carry Winston, which is probably the more ideal of the 2 playstyles in most metas when done right. It's like in 2022 Playoffs whenever Fearless or Guxue had primal it was a world ending level threat that could completely boom the ult economy, and while smurf's primal mechanics are obviously good, its not the same. Just stuff like that made give Fearless the edge. Smurf at 1 is def valid tho, you can't go wrong with either of em
I think.. You have to look at it who would you want when it comes down to those championship or clutch moments. Who would you bet on solo carrying and just going that extra mile on whatever tank you choose. While he doesn't have as much depth as Smurf, I'd argue on PURE main tanks, Fearless is the better pick. Like Orisa is the only one I'd say Smurf is handedly better than Fearless at too. (As far as Main Tanks go)
@@TommathanOWah fair enough. Misunderstood what you said on the Smurf section then :D
Smurf has that shaky Winston aim.
Monkey king
Where is checkmate?
KSAA is the best
Aint no wayy fearless is number 1 he is not even top2 and shanghai had legit 1 meta they were stable in
Pls go back and actually watch his matches is you genuinely believe this 😂🤣 hell just look at the owl wiki it’s tells you everything you need to know
@@ELI-521 they have 2 championships each except fearless also went 0 40
fearless over smurf is a stupid take!
The back handed compliments for cashew DeLisi 😂
How dare you mention super's roadhog 🤢