How To Rebuild The Flippers On A 1978 Bally Evel Knievel Pinball Machine -Or most early Bally Tables
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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Over an hour video on flippers? I can hear the groans from here but me..........A whole freaking Hour on Evil K pinball flippers? WOhooo! Ya I'm weird lol deal with it people
Thanks man! 👍👍👍👍👍
I was trying to be as thorough as possible because people ask about flippers all the time...
@@LyonsArcade done good my friend as always. Hope my videos can be as top quality as these one day. Keep up the great work
@@parkerbohnn yet he gave us an hour of entertaining documentation and information. Amazing job wasn't it? 👍👍👍👍👍
Today You taught me about something, i can use on my 8-track player repair. You were mentioning how those leaf-switches get a bit of arching, every time both contact areas got close and how newer versions have a capacitor across it, to prevent that arching spark... That reminded me of the program switch contacts that automatically switch the head to the next program every time the metal splice endfoil passes across it. I was wondering why there was black sud inside the cartridges where that contact switch goes. Thats probably why: Sparks when the contact closes. I was wondering why some 8-track players have a capacitor across that switch and assumed its just for noise supression. Now i know better and will add a ceramic capacitor to that switch myself. Thanks! :D
Yes you'll see them on some of the newer machines when we work on them (they were on the Pinbot, for instance). Hope that helps your work on your 8 track players!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks ^_^ The 8-track player is actually done. There's always just this nagging feeling that you could have done this, added that, to make it even better; like with the arc supression thing. Scanning through the internet and more schematics for other 8-track players, I determined that a ceramic capacitor with 100nF or up to 1µF with appropriate voltage handling capabilities would be best. There's only 16V on the solenoid and the auto track program contact switch, so that's no big deal. One schematic for a Technics RS-858dus even used an electrolytic capacitor, 1µF/50V, positive pointing to ground and negative to the source of the voltage, as an arc supressor. But i think a ceramic one would be better: More stable and it wouldn't have a negative effect when it's aging. Anyways... I guess i have to open up the machineagain and get a capacitor across that switch! Dang... *lol*
What an awesome machine
You have a great temperament for the type of work you do
lol maybe!
So flippers are not that hard to do, in fact one of the easiest repairs to do.... If you are going to be in the machine anyway, why not replace all of the components, and then it won't need attention again for a long while. I understand the "economic/profit" reason for not replacing all the components, however as a home gamer, I would recommend just doing it, and then you are done. On my Xenon, the ball throw through the tube actually flies out and down the side of the game because it is so powerful. But because my flippers are solid, I know exactly where that shot is every day, every time. No slop to make it "variable". To each his own I guess. Also, regarding the flipper clearance, I use a plastic card, like a credit card without the raised numbers. That provides the right amount of clearance. Also and finally, call out to Pinball Resource, best place to get your stuff. Payment terms are a bit wonky but once established all good.
Perfect timing for this..my KISS machine burned out a flipper coil in 20 seconds while holding the flipper button, I'm watching all Bally flipper videos to try to determine why.
You need to make sure your end of stroke switch opens when you hold the button in. If it always stays closed the coil gets too hot and burns up.
@@LyonsArcade It does open, its' wired correctly...could a diode be the problem?
I know you like to set the flippers where you want them but for other people to know if they look too the end of the flippers they will see holes or dimples in the playfield which are the alignment hole for where the factory suggests you set the flippers to be pointing. like how you said to switch left and right flippers to avoid set screw getting stuck in dimples of shaft but you could also use a dremel with the grinding wheel to buff out the dimples, just don't grind nearer to the bushing since that will wreck the shaft to rotate in the bushing
We can rebuild it. We can make it better than it was... better, stronger, faster... The Six Million Dollar Flipper!
It's gonna be the greatest flipper of all time! On to the right one!
Thread forming screw...
And now I know.
And knowing is half the battle.
GI JOE CLASSIC ARCADE!
They always say that but they never tell you that knowing is the EASIEST part of the battle :)
Gotta love the Brunette on the left there, my eyes just about bugged out the first time you panned over her! Gotta love 70’s artwork!!!! Different era, people!!!
She's excited to be here!
hahaha exactly
Those tees certainly are form-fitting! :)
I too was trying to figure out, (pun intended), how to express admiration for those two pieces of artwork. Ah, they don't draw girls that way anymore! Thank you Ron!
The two small holes pressed into the playfield at the tips of the flippers marks the proper alignment.
I suppose
8-32 screw is indeed standard. 32 threads per inch.
Thank you Beavis!
"If you threaten the screws they go in better" I learn so much on this channel...HA
I’m glad it didn’t make them any stronger - you’d have been smashing plastic everywhere!
Yeah it's one of those things where people imagine they're not strong enough, lol if they'll hit the back of the machine they're plenty strong.
So want a Fireball II. Always liked that game. Next to impossible to find in working shape, and when they are it's like $9K, and if you find one that is in non-working shape they are like $6K around my area. Then again, we have people trying to sell drill presses that are missing the motor and table for $2500 because it says "Atlas" on it...yea....no. Oh well. I'll keep looking. Love this channel though, lots of good debugging and repair techniques.
Fireball ll 9k??? In USD? Nothing about that game is deserving of that
@@artransitmemories9640 I loved the game, first one I never saw with the ball kicker in the center. I agree 100% that it is NOT worth $9k, but we have people selling "parts only" machines for $3500 AND GETTING IT. CRAZY
@@artransitmemories9640 oh, and apparently the game is considered semi rare with only 2300 ever made. Last I looked there was one available elsewhere and it was over $4k in 2019, and the back glass and play field were virtually destroyed. I dont even think Ron could have repaired them....
@@WreckDiver99 l was working at Bally when Norm Clark came into the lab with a Doodle Bug. I asked what it did and what it had to do with Fireball as l had been pushing to remake the original Fireball for a few years. I thought it would be cool if the ball could be captured by the doodle leading to a bizarre multi-ball scenario. Alas, l lost out and FB ll was produced with a Doodlebug instead of spinner. As expected, It sold poorly.
@@artransitmemories9640 that's sweet. Learned pinball on a beer case at the local bar when I was 5 or 6 on the old EMs, was hooked for life. I always liked FB2, and I think it was just that center post kicker
The threads is tapered. The other unholy thing belongs in the trash. So sad to see the pride and workmanship belongs to the past. Great video again! Keep it up
Question - You make mention of how the replacement pawls as part of the rebuild kit are a 'waste of money'... Are there kits available that do not include these parts? Or is one better off buying the parts individually? I can see advantages and disadvantages to both; If you buy individual parts, you run the risk of missing a needed part, and possibly having to spend more for the shipping/handling of individual parts. On the other hand, a kit may include parts you don't need, and may never need. I'd be interested in knowing your opinion (I also imagine that you yourself don't mind leftover parts, and that you order individual parts in bulk... :-) ).
Yes we buy all the stuff in bulk, this particular flipper kit the owner had already purchased so we put it on there for him. You can buy 'mini kits' from PBResource.com that don't have the pawls, the full kits are 50 bucks the ones without the pawls are 37 bucks. You can also like you mentioned order any of the parts individually...
Thanks Ron for a detailed tutorial on rebuilding flippers. I always pick up something new or to watch for in your videos. Just hope you don't get burned out in doing these - I indeed appreciate the time you spend to film these! Yep, flippers were the same. But you probably gave some longevity after seeing those contacts and play in the linkage.
Ya wanna know what I think about that ?..well Ron I think it's a damm good idea...cheers.
I'm going into my "So what do you think about that!" phase... look for it in every video until we all get tired of it :)
JOES CLASSIC, Do you solder a capacitor across the flipper switches to prevent the voltage arcing because I don't get why a capacitor would prevent voltage arcing across the two leaf switches. The Flipper PAW and Flipper CRANK are the same thing? because I don't know what is considered the flipper PAW and what is the flipper Crank. Any reasons why you like those "Thread form screws" what are they doing differently?
I typically don't add the capacitor in it but the newer machines yes have a capacitor across the end of stroke switch to prevent arcing. It's spelled Pawl but yes it and the crank are the same thing. The thread forming screws are tapered, so they line up better with the holes (the first few threads are smaller than the rest, so it's easier to put in the hole)... by the threads being tapered it cleans the hole up a bit and makes the screw fit tighter each time.
@@LyonsArcade thanks, I thought the capacitor solder across the switch was used to register really fast pinballs hitting the switch. But the capacitor also prevents arcing also. Without the capacitor the pinball would hit the switch and not get registered in the score but it also prevents arcing on the leaf switches
Played this game when I was a kid in St. Louis. I would go into a little bar by myself when I was 11/12 years old. Got ran off at first but eventually talked the bartender into letting me come in and play. He would give me a buck to police the parking lot everyday. Told me I had to put the money into the pinball machine. Used to rob the machine for points by flipping the flippers real fast when the ball was in the kick out hole. Some how it took power away from that solenoid and it didn't kick the ball clear it would fall back in. Good times.
haha that's pretty awesome, crazy how kids can figure things out like that!
Great Video Joe, I been in the pinball ownership since Aug 2019, love watching your video and great tips. I miss hearing you say the historic Rock Hill SC in your videos. Keep the videos coming.
I'll have to add that back in, thanks for watching Frank, we appreciate it!
I know this was just in for the flippers, but that 4K light on the ladder is out.
You think so?
Awesome and very helpful, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
#8-32 is an SAE sized screw. #8 diameter with 32TPI (threads per inch)
Thanks!
Great video as usual. Love your comments makes me laugh.. I also have been keeping up with your brothers videos. The last one where he was commenting about doing the roof in the rain was hallarous..He is definitely a go getter lol..
Thanks for the laughs
He gets up every day ready to take on the world, it's pretty inspiring.
The taper on the end of the screw is called the champer I think so don't quote me on that.
That sounds right to me :)
@@LyonsArcade Great video.
I agree on the flippers, maybe replace the sleeves or worn linkage.
I keep sleeves plungers and coil stops in just in case I need parts but generally the whole things don't need rebuilt in my opinion....
The flippers are strong
those little hmmm whatya callits are Alan keys and the thingymajigs are grub screws.
great video always enjoy your shenanigans.
Rebuilding Williams Triple Strike flippers.. seems the same :)
thanks for all the informative vids man!
Could you do a quick cheat to make the flippers stronger by putting in a compression spring that is doubly or triply strong?
Thanks again Ron. Great video. I'm learning more daily. Rookie question. For general maintenance, do I just clean those assemblies/plungers with isopropyl and re-assemble? Any dry type of dry lube? I have some locked coils so I'm just going through the driver board and coils and would like to address this while I'm in there. Thanks!
Yes I'd just clean them, I usually don't even do that if they're working fine, but if they're locked it very well may be they're just dirty depending on how it was stored or how long since it's been played. If you do take them apart I would suggest replacing the nylon sleeve just because it's often a problem, AND it's super cheap, you can buy them for less than $1 each if you order some parts get a bag of those. No lube on any of the plungers though, basically the rule of thumb is anytime metal hits nylon it should be dry, anytime metal hits metal you need lube.
@@LyonsArcade Thanks! I know there are some great online small shops for parts, can you recommend a few good ones you use? I've been to pinballlife, Big Daddys, great plains electronics.
Does this end of stroke switch normally bypass a ballast resistor that reduces the coil current when the stroke is complete?
I believe they do that with a diode.
@@LyonsArcade Looking closer that is apparent from the thumbnail frame... So, AC... maybe DC games would need a resistor and the diode would likely be more necessary for solid state, parallel with the coil in reverse bias to snub the kickback.
The flipper coil consists of 2 coils in series. A low resistance power coil for the stroke and a high resistance holding coil. The EOS normally shorts out the holding coil so you have a power stroke. The flipper opens the EOS at the end of the stroke placing the high resistance coil in series. This reduces the power consumption if you are holding the flipper up. The diode goes across the coil to dissipate the magnetic field quicker and was a must to prevent damage to the solid state components used in modern games.
Ron, as usual another very informative and entertaining video. Thanks for taking us along.
Thanks TCB we appreciate it man :)
That brown linkage looks like a scrap piece of old PCB...
And another video of some amazing skills!
Thank you. Excellent video!
Tapered lead-in. Helps you get it square in the hole before you start screwing it ;)
Absolutely! I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem, lol
I replaced the entire assembly on Lost World due to the coil actually fell out during customer play. Oops.
Did it land on their foot :)
I worked for Digital Equipment and one my favorite reads was the pinball forum on Dec net. Waiting on parts or orders for houser dec net gave us something to do. I fixed lots of vending machine for same guys business. Ride out with him. Remember the denounce diode across the coils, resoldered lots of them too. Dave in northern Minnesota, back in my hometown.
Great video as always. Thinking! Maybe a video about the function of an EOS-switch could help some dudes. Don´t know if you post that before but i´m still struggling to watch all your videos. Thanks Ron.
Nice video. Now I know flippers as a complete assembly instead of just sleeves and end of stroke switches. Not related to the flippers, my OCD is screaming for you to fix that 2nd from the top drop target. Took 2 or 3 hits to get that sucker to go down.
You should maybe talk to a psychiatrist about your disorder, I'm sorry you're suffering like this.
@@LyonsArcade It has been concluded long ago that I am beyond help.
Did you know when Evel was approving the backglass on the game, his only complaint was the bike that’s jumping the double decker buses is at the wrong angle of the jump and he said it would crash and not make the jump in real life.
Thanks for another informative and entertaining video.
I’m very new to owning my holy grail: KISS Bally machine and have no electronic skills so your videos are super helpful.
My left flipper has gotten stuck in the up position a few times so I’m thinking at some point I’ll be watching this video again.
When it gets stuck turn the machine off and then see if it stays stuck when the machine is off. if it does, then it's something physically binding, if it now drops back down to normal then something electrical was holding it up.
If it's something electrical it's probably the switch on the side of the cabinet was stuck together.... if it's something physical, it's probably the plunger, coil stop, and sleeve through the coil need some work.
@@LyonsArcade thanks!
Yes, the first time it happened I shut off the game and it reset. The next time I left it on and tried to play and then it blew a fuse and I couldn’t play.
It’s happened once since and I shut it right off to reset.
@@MD-wk3gj Follow Joe's video and rebuild the flippers. This is a doable project to learn on.
Thanks for going through these steps. I'm still working on my Old Chicago. I do have the kit to rebuild the flippers. I'm glad you were able to hear me when I reminded you that you dropped the spring. I tried to tell you that you moved the flipper....but....anyway, Thanks for the video.
your voice sounded much more squeaky than I imagined it would.... you don't have the Covid-1984 do you??????
@@LyonsArcade ah man...now I've got to schedule a test...with a No. 2 pencil.
Haha
Seems odd that the plunger link is made out of phenolic, that’s a high-wear item isn’t it? Any ideas on why it’s not made of steel?
I'm not sure why they did it that way... On the williams pitch and bat machines we just did the link was made out of metal, but it wore too so I guess they have their reasons. They're pretty much all like that though... later they used plastic but it wears as well. It may have been a holdover from the old EM machines where the wear wasn't as drastic so it took them awhile to switch over to plastic?
This is one of those things too where there's a difference between a brand new machine that just came out, getting played 800+ games a week... and a game in somebody's house getting played 10 games a week, so an item that's worn may have worn on location and won't hardly wear at all in home play.
It's a self lubricating material with fibre reinforcement. You would think it would wear out quickly but just the opposite. There are flippers operating for 1/2 a century with little visible wear of this part.
Got a vid on taxi or taxi driver? Loved that one too.
I didn't know you dropped the spring.
I wasn't paying attention.
It happens :)
you say you never put a meter or don't have a meter to check the angle on the pinball machine. you have a great little meter in your pocket if you ever want to check the angle of the table. just down load the inclinometer app into your cell phone to check the angle of the table and side to side level. its cheap and always with you.
I'm not too worried about whether it's the angle a random website tells me I should be playing at, lol I'd rather just play it how I think it ought to be.
If you level the bottom of the cabinet the game is set as intended.
Man I must have lucked out the other day then, as I gave the flippers on one of my Bally's a freshen up. The coil sleeve on both of them was stuck like a bastard!
I managed to get them out after a struggle. I like the coil stop trick to help them out, I'll remember that for next time :)
Now, a time indicator would have helped...
Spring turned into Fall.
The chimes sound off
Are those the original ones ?
Yes
Great work on flipper assy works fine to me 😎👍
Thanks Danijel you're the man!
Made no difference? :-(
Pinball help?
Mine always had red flipper bands.
I always look on the flyer to make sure what color they're each supposed to be, almost all of them were red but sometimes they used Yellow.
Gotta do it ......FIIIIRRSSST ....
Yes you are!
Great machine.
It's pretty awesome :)