Also on the West Island. About to install 2 in bathroom within the next week. Also, we don't need to vent every fixture. Just a vent on end of each line.
We had an S-trap in our kitchen and bathroom since the plumbing went straight down through the floor. We did a DIY bathroom remodel years ago and moved the plumbing into the wall and installed a P-trap mainly because we installed a pedestal sink and removed the cabinet. We haven't gotten to the kitchen yet, but we haven't had any issues as of yet. The house was built in 1961 and we've been here 20 years.
I am an old man and I have never had any issues with a "S" trap in my life time. As for the evaporation that would only be an issue with any drain that is not used for a long amount of time. The majority of kitchen sinks are the most heavily used drains in a house. So this is not a very common problem.
yeah, this is just fear mongering, trying to get people to get plumbers out to change out something that is perfectly fine in an older house. yes, if you are building a house or doing a reno, you need to put the new plumbing in to 'code', but if its already there and working, just use it unless its a problem. in some rare cases where the geometry of the S trap is just right (or wrong I guess), it can have a siphoning effect like in the images, but this is fairly rare and only tends to happen if the if the pipe heading down through the floor has quite a long drop before changing direction, general under sink to under floor joist won't be an issue. places where it can be an issue is with drains for washing machines, where they are sometimes up above countertop level, but even that is pretty rare. it is not illegal to have s-traps, or even install a new one in an existing house, eg to repair a leak or change out a sink etc. what is "illegal" (and this depends where you live) is installing one in a new build/extension, as (depending on where you live) it wont pass 'code' same way as having a house without insulation is not illegal, but you wont be able to illegally move into a new house that does not have any.
the main problem is they "can/may" syphon out, especially from a large outflow like a filled sink being drained or washing machine into laundry tub with s trap. it's not much an issue with just faucets flowing, even with GPM restrictors removed and chooching high volumes. that's my personal observation and finding over the last 30+ years. if I'm just repairing just under sink tubing, I'll leave/replace s-traps, but if replacing the whole run, I'll relocate and go with p-traps.
It’s not a common problem at all, but when the gasses that come from your sewer are flammable/explosive and toxic. A small chance is still a big problem
We put in s traps all the time in australia, amd we run single vent sewers most of the time. Not the fully vented systems ive seen in american homes. Never had a problem with am s trap siphoning unless the drain has a partial choke that effects the venting. Or improperly installed drains that are not to code. And in those situations the p traps we throw in on wall hung vanities will also siphon As will floor waste gullys or shower gullys
Probably cuz we in NZ and Australia run our residential drainage into 100mm mainline while the yanks run it all into 80mm. No need for wasting time with vents on every fixture. High rise is another story though.
Roger, I've been watching your videos for several years now. I am making the switch from comercial new construction to residential service work in a few weeks. I appreciate all the videos you put out.
@@serpentinefire921 While I initially thought going from new construction to retro would be fun . . . I was quickly disillusioned of that idea. I discovered that I really didn't like laying in dirt or mud to replace plumbing components, especially since nearly needing to be cut out from under a floor after getting stuck in a very tight space. I'm not claustrophobic one bit , but I don't like dealing with spiders or bugs in confined spaces.
My home is 1927 vintage. I have an "S" trap in my basement bathroom sink. WAY too involved to retrofit it to a proper setup, so I just make a point of running the faucet slowly (maybe a 3/8" diameter stream) for 4 or 5 seconds after I use the sink to be sure the trap is totally filled. The main floor bathroom has a tub that's WAY too small for me to use (p-trap), so whenever I get up in the middle of the night for a "pit stop", I fill a drinking cup at the sink and dump it in the tub. GREAT channel, just subscribed!
I have always lived in older buildings with S traps and never had any issue. Obviously go with a P trap if you're doing a gut remodel or new construction but S traps do work. Maybe you should have touched up air admittance valves in cases where a remodel isn't possible.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 Not a problem if you make sure your traps are always full. Plus if you take your gray water out of the septic loop and run it to daylight that will never be an issue and you save your septic system from overwork.
In the UK we have - and I regularly use S traps, but the ones we have are deeper, and they would normally be connected into a 4" pipe. Also, all houses have a 4" stack vent (pipe) going up from the main drain to above roof level. I have encountered a few draw-outs with long runs of 1 1/4" pipe, easily rectified with 1 1/2" or 2" pipe, and/or with an air admittance valve.
this is why i love youtube. my basement bathroom smelled so bad for so long i couldn't figure it out. i tried bleach cakes in the toilet upper. cleaning over and over. i never suspected the sink drying up in the trap. i ran the water and as of now it's smell free. thanks a bunch
I have an s trap but I think that's the least of my worries when it comes to plumbing and it's been like that since the 50's it may stay that way for awhile longer can't afford a plumber
When we did our house remodel we had all the s traps fixed by having AAV install instead of redoing all the plumbing. We live in a brick and block famed house so routing new air vents and plumbing was a big issue. AAV valves aren't as foolproof as a true vent stack but they sure are better than nothing.
I work in fire protection. Quite often while doing inspections in condos, I’d run in to condos that no one had been to in months. I got in to a habit that if I noticed a smell I’d flush the toilets and run the sinks for a moment. Many of the maintenance guys really appreciated it
You saw s-trap in Europe? I am a plumber from Germany, worked in 5 EU states and only places where I saw s-traps were cellars where no-one did anything for last 45-50 years. Like I literally never saw a s-trap made out of plastics, all of them were out of lead and lead in pipes is baned in Europe for decades.
@@korinogaro nice, I traveled for my work to many countries in and outside the EU and I have seen many of them. I can even go to the store and still buy them in Belgium the Netherlands in Pvc form. My home was renewed around 10 years ago and it has 4 S and only 2 P traps. In Germany they sell as I have seen only the P trap, but I saw Pvc S in places. Don't know the age of them.
My house is nearly 60 years old. Not puttin' P-traps in under my kitchen sink without some masonry work. The wall they come up to is structural brick...exterior wall even...and the drain is roughed in from beneath. It HAS to be an s-trap. FWIW I don't get any sewer gas issues out of it.
Our house was built in 1961, it was built with S traps. In 60 years we never had any problems or had any smells. I don't know what they did after we moved out, probably still the same 🤷♂️Also, they still sell S traps at the big box stores! I'm not going to worry about it 🤷♂️
They actually sell things at stores like Home Depot (those horrible flex pipes for example) that do not conform to codes in most all jurisdictions (or at all). They are legal to sell but illegal to use. Edit: Not commenting on the P vs S trap debate, only that what they sell has nothing to do with code compliance.
Well, that at 6:48 was misleading, the water is at the level it should. The pipe not being transparent, doesn't mean that the water is just at the level where you can see the water.
In Germany, every house has at least one pipe, which ends on the roof and ventilates the system. This avoides two problems at once. The pipe system cannot be sucked empty, all kinds of traps are possible, and the duct system is well ventilated so that no explosive gases can accumulate
I love in the USA you have plumbing inspections, here in the UK we have no such thing!. Shame really but fixing all those clueless “plumbers” bad work makes us good money and helps my customers peace of mind!
Recently bought an older house. I was running a dehumidifier in the basement kitchen area and when it's full I dump it in the sink. A couple of times we went down there and the whole room smelled terrible ... Long story short, I finally figured out that I have an S trap under that sink with no vent so when I dumped a full gallon of water in the sink it would siphon right through the trap and let sewer gas come in the room. I now pore most of the gallon and save about a half cup to pore slowly and it's fine.
went back and checked, the water in the S-trap and P-trap were exactly the same level, you were trying to sell us something that didn't change. check it
As a licensed plumber from Australia I completely disagree with your statements The p trap style you are talking about is fully vented modified system which is completely unnecessary for a domestic application Your test setup was poor and does not clearly show the results Please don’t not strike fear into the domestic market about such trivial issues as this undermines our credibility You are more likely for a floor waste to dry out as it is a larger diameter providing more airflow on both sides of the weir causing evaporation vs a basin waste drying out
@@seanshomeshop325 I’m always interested in learning something new, where are you from? And do you need the junction(tee) located in the wall to be vented either to atmosphere or AAV In Australia we are allowed to connect DN40 to basins and vanities in any P or S trap configuration as long as the vertical pipe connect the trap doesn’t exceed 1.2m
@@rooey4193 in the US S-traps are illegal anywhere really to today's codes. And yes in the US we vent each P-Trap, most are thru the roof, some can be out the side of the house. a one-way vent is mostly used for kitchen islands...
In the US we arn't required to bring houses up to code, just new ones being built. I personally live in a home that was last renovated in the 1940's or 1950's and honestly have never had an issue, we don't have vents on any line outside of the main sewer vent and none that run back to it and have never had sewer gas issues.
just because a p-trap is better doesn't mean there is anything wrong with an s-trap. you make it sound like if you have an s-trap hurry up and get it removed. an s-trap works just fine.
0:24 something happened with the video here. It suddenly shifted to you not talking to us, but to a camera operator or the wall. You might want to talk to your producer. In a video, you want to be talking to the people watching the video.
Great insight on why it's better to go with a p'trap over an s'trap. When doing repairs on older homes, you can choose to stay with the s'trap(grand father claus) but always reccomend upgrading to a p'trap. Great video!👍
Yeah, ok, I live in a house that's 130 years old. Kitchen sink and downstairs bathroom sink, both drained through the floor, both with S traps and having lived here for 38 years myself, I've replaced sinks in both and put in new S traps and NEVER had an issue. This may be the code now but it's BS!!!!
It did the same thing on the p trap water is in the sink drain pipe and a s trap actually holds more water. If you look at the s trap the water level is above the joint on the trap.
Lol... My house is 21 years old. I have 5 S traps under the sinks. Guess what... Never had an issue in the 12 years I've lived there. I'm probably not going to rush into replacing them any time soon.
S traps are not the only illegal type of plumbing traps. Another type of trap that is problematic and often found in homes built before 1950, is the drum trap, commonly found in bathrooms especially with claw foot tubs. Many times they are easily identified by the clean out plug near the tub, sometimes the sink also drained into it. Sometimes the clean out is on the bottom. For one, they tend to clog frequently because they are not self scouring. Many times they are unvented. It can be difficult to get a drain auger through. And finally they tend to be made from lead which is often very brittle and prone to fracture if forced is needed to remove the clean out, it's often corroded in place.
My kitchen sink drains in the yard and the sewer line has 2 vents in the yard. Had a fun time clearing the main line with a garden hose. No sewer gas but i had the sewer flow all over the back yard a couple times.
Hey how you doing Rodgers I had the same issue at a service call where the guest room had a bathroom in it and the owner would invite his friends over every 6 months to every years and the home owner would smells sewage smell everyday I advise him to run his tub , lav sink and toilet every day so the traps wouldn't get dried up . He never called us back so I guess the suggestion worked .
Ease up on inserting those clips roger. This video felt too disjointed with all the interruptions from them. Just some cc from a random sub. Take care roger
@@RogerWakefield recently. I was desperate to replace a trap for a hand washing sink in a fast food restaurant. The raggedy supply store only had an s trap. That was around 2 years ago but I’ve done one within the past 2 months. Maybe the gas doesn’t come up in a commercial setting because they have 10 people using that sink 5 times every other hour. I could see how it could cause gas leakage in a residential situation where it is out of the way.
In the 90s Army Corps of Engineers built our building in Fort Knox KY, one of the toilets had the wax ring installed improperly. 💩🤢🤮 That sink to high heaven until they got it fixed
Do you ever encounter working drum traps anymore? I was recently putting new HVAC under a house and someone one left behind after being ripped out and replaced with PVC recently.
funny enough I still see new pvc drum traps stocked in some big box stores, not sure if anyone uses them much. but I have seen a few pvc ones and removed many cast iron with iron pipes over the years.
I travel quite a bit and when I'm gone from home for several months I need to pour RV antifreeze into the drains before I leave to keep them from evaporating completely. The company I worked for years ago would not allow us maintenance dudes to install S-traps. The company always considered them unsafe and prone to leaking when the weather/working conditions changed. I had some in my rental properties and never had any issues, but they were well ventilated.
I walked into my bathroom this morning and it stunk like sewer gas so I walked back out and went into the kitchen and it stunk the same. Turns out my wife had farted in both rooms. 😂😂😂
My home was built 1924. Sewer gasses cannot back into my house,, because the main house trap blocks the gasses. When I renovated my bathroom, I replaced all the plumbing, drain and water pipes,including the house trap 17yrs ago, except my kitchen sink S trap. Any gasses rising from the sink are isolated behind the main trap, in the12ft new no hub lateral drain run and toilet/main vent stack. I'm lucky. No smells have ever come from the S trap.. The distance between the main trap and the S trap 10ft straight down. When I remove the 1954 porcelain sink and steal cabinets, I will install a 2in PVC drain and 1 1/2 P trap, while I relocate the water lines that are currently through the cabinet floor.
Is a sure vent acceptable to turn an S trap into a vented P trap? I had an S-trap on a kitchen island with no wall access and i made a P trap with a sure vent. Was not going to go through the trouble of a bow vent
P traps do not have a dedicated vent, the plumber has to install one in the vent pipe system. The same is true for an S trap. S traps are not "illegal" in my state, you can walk into any plumbing supply store and buy one. I have S traps in my kitchen and both bathrooms, I've lived in this house for 40 years and never had any problems with sewer gas. Anyone using a P trap can convert it into an S trap by simply installing an elbow after the trap. As long as the plumber properly designs the drain system there will be no problems.
My bathroom is from the 80s and has a s-trap on the sink that goes through the floor and my county has no permit office so no building/plumbing/electrical permits are required.
Plumber, 45 years exp. Never have had a problem with s-traps. Learn how venting works!! P.s. if your venting is wrong, installing a p-trap will NOT fix the problem! P-trap seals can pull just as quickly as an s-trap!
Do s-traps drain worse than p-traps. I recently had some plumbing work done under my sink, and now I'm noticing that pressure builds up in the pipes when I run the water, causing water to back up into the sink and drain very slowly. I'm wondering if it is due to the s-trap
I have a trap in a utility sink in laundry room, no issues other than small leak but that’s most likely cause I installed wrong and haven’t fixed it lol
Mine has what appears to be an s trap replacement kit, is it normal for them to place the vent under the sink but not in the wall? With a clean out below the sink pipe?
I got a question directly pertaining to this. I installed a new vanity for a customer last week, and the guy refused to let me trim inside to let a p trap fit, or to open the drywall and move the drain. The shelf inside was directly under the drain so no room to have a trap that goes lower than the tailpipe. What he did instead is he used two J bends and formed a 360° loop, and then had the tail piece that goes into the wall facing up into that loop. Hopefully I'm explaining it right. Now if you just rotated your S trap in it would look the same except that this goes into the wall instead of the floor. I wonder if this is still ok. His other bathroom downstairs had the exact same thing. I had never seen this before. I have pictures if you'd like I don't know if I can link it. After watching your video I'm semi-convinced they are just functionally S traps. Customer said it's worked perfectly fine for years.
It's a trap had me waiting all Day with notification then I miss it lol.i had changed so .many S trap to P traps.some times hard when the drain is in the middle of the kitchen sink floor
What's weird is toilets are made with s-traps...at least the ones I've seen. What's even weirder is when our toilet hasn't been used by anyone in a few hours, there's a slight hint of sewer smell. The bowl water is still at the "line" in the toilet, and recently I recaulked around the toilet. But still, there's that hint if sewer. Not all the time though.
For a better result of real world for old S-Trap in old building you should have created an artificial clog further down the end and show what happen in most old building. Like recently i just changed a whole pipe section that was rusted out. When i opened the 2" pipe it was filled half way with sewer clay or whatever you want to call this greasy mess. Just cleaning this remaining section so i could install the new plastic pipe took me like 30min. And let's not talk about my grand father's kitchen sink. The entire lenght of this pipe was 100% filled with this sewer clay for a good 20 feeth. Took me well over an hour to clear it all the way with no special tool in hand. I just used smaller pipes and jammed them in there to pull out this junk. The pipe went from 2" new _Insert 100 years inbetween_ to fully filled sewer clay to unclogged with ~3/4" freed.
The Uniform plumbing code is way overkill and is prompt up by unions who can’t get away from individual venting every single freaking fixture “because it’s best?” The International Plumbing Code lets you get away with the bare minimum, but as long as you follow the rules, all will be well. Put an air admittance valve on top of a San tee and stub out a p trap to retrofit an S trap if you get any kind of a smell. No smell = not to many worries and I have seen highly unsanitary job on remodels throughout the years and very rarely does it cause any problems and when it does it’s from dumping all fixtures at once through an improperly sized wet vent with more than one fixture past the vent stack, or it’s a discharge of a pump into the sanitary system that blows the trap seals. Really and truly if you do get a smell with an s trap, it’s probably a bad seal on a wax ring on a toilet in the bathroom and not the lavatory at all.
Dear Roger, I am in an apartment built in 1954 and it seems like every time I take a shower I would smell something awful so not being a plumber myself I resorted to using chlorox bleach by first turning on the shower water then pouring half a jug of chlorox bleach into the drain then waiting five minutes before jumping into the shower. I calculate I am paying $90.00 per month in bleach just so I won’t smell the awful gases from the street as I don’t want to get sick from that. I can’t see the traps for the shower as I am in a second floor apartment and it’s in the walls so it’s all a mystery to me the plumbing. Should I call LA county inspectors to fix the problem and I have talked to other neighbors in the apartment complex and they smell the awful gases too. Could it be that the building is too old and probably the pipes along the way have corroded deep along the pathway to the street therefore making it prohibitive expensive to repair for the current owners or should I move altogether where I can live normally. I probably got a hypothyroid issue because of those gases from the past. Anyone help me please.😩
For starters, I would not pour bleach down the drain, it can react with a bunch of different chemicals and substances in your drain and cause major problems. I would call the apartment building owners and have them send someone out to inspect the pipes. Just by going off the info you told me and not being able to asses in person, it’s difficult to really know what the problem is. Getting a professional to inspect the pipes would be the first step
@@RogerWakefield Thankyou Mr. Wakefield I will call the apartment owners for inspection. I didn’t know chlorox bleach can cause problems to other substances down the pipe as I thought these chemicals were made for pipes added to some posts on the internet say one way to eliminate pipe odor is to our chlorox bleach but if you say it’s unsafe I will trust you. I need to research more as I am confused. 👍
The reasons the trap didn't empty might be because... * The vertical drop was too short to generate the required suction. * The volume of water "flushed" was too small. * The diameter of your trap was too large. Good work though, thanks!
I am having trouble with my septic tank keeps beeping and had it pumped :/ they said i needed to replace the pump that agatates the water any tips and thanks for the videos
Converting it to a p-trap You could plumb it with a studor vent(a.a.v.) but you would still need a sanitary tee. If you are trying to avoid cutting into drywall.
Is it just my eyes or the water stays the same level on pop up drain side? In the first example video cuts off as soon as his finger moves to right side (sink pipe) and water IS lower level than left bend side. Also with S trap first it would be fair t to see the actual j band portion ALL in clear as well instead of assuming what happens behind white PVC and water level on pop up side maybe 1/8" higher than with P trap trial. It might be due to wrong way of testing but this video instead of convincing me actually shown me not much difference instead.
I have an s trap with a vent installed, for some reason water won’t drain, and the trap and Fittings are all new so I know it’s not clogged, can anyone explain what is going on!?
This is straight from the 2015 ipc study companion Lowheelinletsonaquarterbendcanbecomefloodedandthereforeshouldnotbeutilizedas wet-ventedconnectionstothedrainagesystem.Becausesideinletquarterbendsnormallydo notbecomefloodedonbrancheswithoutwaterclosetstheycanbeutilizedasawetvented connection.
Let's try that again... Low heel inlets on a quarterbend can become flooded and therefore should not be utilized as wet-vented connections to the drainage system. Because side inlet quarterbends normally do not become flooded on branches without water closets they can be utilized as a wet vented connection.
Great vid! Vent lines play a significant part in the P-trap/S-trap configuration. P-trap wins every time. A quick critique: the oblique shots of you in your presentation are unpleasant and awkward. It's much more engaging to watch you straight on. I'd ditch them. God bless & subbed!
S-traps are common in new Zealand. No issues with traps getting sucked dry.
Also on the West Island. About to install 2 in bathroom within the next week. Also, we don't need to vent every fixture. Just a vent on end of each line.
@@stevemurnane1892 what a monumental waste of time and money venting every fixture lol god bless 3500.2
You dont notice the smell because normal
We had an S-trap in our kitchen and bathroom since the plumbing went straight down through the floor. We did a DIY bathroom remodel years ago and moved the plumbing into the wall and installed a P-trap mainly because we installed a pedestal sink and removed the cabinet. We haven't gotten to the kitchen yet, but we haven't had any issues as of yet. The house was built in 1961 and we've been here 20 years.
I am an old man and I have never had any issues with a "S" trap in my life time. As for the evaporation that would only be an issue with any drain that is not used for a long amount of time. The majority of kitchen sinks are the most heavily used drains in a house. So this is not a very common problem.
yeah, this is just fear mongering, trying to get people to get plumbers out to change out something that is perfectly fine in an older house. yes, if you are building a house or doing a reno, you need to put the new plumbing in to 'code', but if its already there and working, just use it unless its a problem.
in some rare cases where the geometry of the S trap is just right (or wrong I guess), it can have a siphoning effect like in the images, but this is fairly rare and only tends to happen if the if the pipe heading down through the floor has quite a long drop before changing direction, general under sink to under floor joist won't be an issue. places where it can be an issue is with drains for washing machines, where they are sometimes up above countertop level, but even that is pretty rare.
it is not illegal to have s-traps, or even install a new one in an existing house, eg to repair a leak or change out a sink etc. what is "illegal" (and this depends where you live) is installing one in a new build/extension, as (depending on where you live) it wont pass 'code'
same way as having a house without insulation is not illegal, but you wont be able to illegally move into a new house that does not have any.
the main problem is they "can/may" syphon out, especially from a large outflow like a filled sink being drained or washing machine into laundry tub with s trap.
it's not much an issue with just faucets flowing, even with GPM restrictors removed and chooching high volumes. that's my personal observation and finding over the last 30+ years.
if I'm just repairing just under sink tubing, I'll leave/replace s-traps, but if replacing the whole run, I'll relocate and go with p-traps.
It’s not a common problem at all, but when the gasses that come from your sewer are flammable/explosive and toxic. A small chance is still a big problem
@@theleonardlife7572 Lock of use is a much larger problem.
Yep, total B.S. No reason to change out good stuff.
Another common place that sewage smells can come from in a basement or laundry room is from a floor drain trap that’s gone dry.
You are completely correct. Do you come across those often?
I run into that a lot responding to sewer smells in homes
Some codes require trap primers for that reason
Thats a drain line set i wouldn't have thought of...
I have seen it from being improperly installed. No trap primer installed on a floor drain
We put in s traps all the time in australia, amd we run single vent sewers most of the time.
Not the fully vented systems ive seen in american homes.
Never had a problem with am s trap siphoning unless the drain has a partial choke that effects the venting.
Or improperly installed drains that are not to code.
And in those situations the p traps we throw in on wall hung vanities will also siphon
As will floor waste gullys or shower gullys
Probably cuz we in NZ and Australia run our residential drainage into 100mm mainline while the yanks run it all into 80mm. No need for wasting time with vents on every fixture. High rise is another story though.
Roger, I've been watching your videos for several years now. I am making the switch from comercial new construction to residential service work in a few weeks. I appreciate all the videos you put out.
Thank you so much! I hope you enjoy the transition.
Welcome to the dark side brother
Literally just did the opposite lol
@@serpentinefire921 While I initially thought going from new construction to retro would be fun . . . I was quickly disillusioned of that idea. I discovered that I really didn't like laying in dirt or mud to replace plumbing components, especially since nearly needing to be cut out from under a floor after getting stuck in a very tight space. I'm not claustrophobic one bit , but I don't like dealing with spiders or bugs in confined spaces.
Your going to hate life buddy. Your going to get dirty, this isn't clean work. Lol
My home is 1927 vintage. I have an "S" trap in my basement bathroom sink. WAY too involved to retrofit it to a proper setup, so I just make a point of running the faucet slowly (maybe a 3/8" diameter stream) for 4 or 5 seconds after I use the sink to be sure the trap is totally filled. The main floor bathroom has a tub that's WAY too small for me to use (p-trap), so whenever I get up in the middle of the night for a "pit stop", I fill a drinking cup at the sink and dump it in the tub. GREAT channel, just subscribed!
I have always lived in older buildings with S traps and never had any issue. Obviously go with a P trap if you're doing a gut remodel or new construction but S traps do work. Maybe you should have touched up air admittance valves in cases where a remodel isn't possible.
A blocked line even for a short time and not backing up can vent through an invented p trap or s trap and pull the trap dry
That's well and good until flammable gasses back up into your home.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 Not a problem if you make sure your traps are always full. Plus if you take your gray water out of the septic loop and run it to daylight that will never be an issue and you save your septic system from overwork.
In the UK we have - and I regularly use S traps, but the ones we have are deeper, and they would normally be connected into a 4" pipe. Also, all houses have a 4" stack vent (pipe) going up from the main drain to above roof level. I have encountered a few draw-outs with long runs of 1 1/4" pipe, easily rectified with 1 1/2" or 2" pipe, and/or with an air admittance valve.
this is why i love youtube. my basement bathroom smelled so bad for so long i couldn't figure it out. i tried bleach cakes in the toilet upper. cleaning over and over. i never suspected the sink drying up in the trap. i ran the water and as of now it's smell free. thanks a bunch
I have an s trap but I think that's the least of my worries when it comes to plumbing and it's been like that since the 50's it may stay that way for awhile longer can't afford a plumber
When we did our house remodel we had all the s traps fixed by having AAV install instead of redoing all the plumbing. We live in a brick and block famed house so routing new air vents and plumbing was a big issue. AAV valves aren't as foolproof as a true vent stack but they sure are better than nothing.
I work in fire protection. Quite often while doing inspections in condos, I’d run in to condos that no one had been to in months. I got in to a habit that if I noticed a smell I’d flush the toilets and run the sinks for a moment. Many of the maintenance guys really appreciated it
No way in hell that sewer gas ignited a house fire from cooking some breakfast. Somebody is covering their ass for a bad gas line job,
Or an illegal drug-lab accident...
💯
The video showed a plastic dry vent hose at the beginning.
In Europe, the countries I have been and the s-trap has never caused any danger or anything else.
You saw s-trap in Europe? I am a plumber from Germany, worked in 5 EU states and only places where I saw s-traps were cellars where no-one did anything for last 45-50 years. Like I literally never saw a s-trap made out of plastics, all of them were out of lead and lead in pipes is baned in Europe for decades.
@@korinogaro nice, I traveled for my work to many countries in and outside the EU and I have seen many of them.
I can even go to the store and still buy them in Belgium the Netherlands in Pvc form.
My home was renewed around 10 years ago and it has 4 S and only 2 P traps.
In Germany they sell as I have seen only the P trap, but I saw Pvc S in places.
Don't know the age of them.
@@RichardErkens damn, two people in the same occupation and two completely different experiences.
My house is nearly 60 years old. Not puttin' P-traps in under my kitchen sink without some masonry work. The wall they come up to is structural brick...exterior wall even...and the drain is roughed in from beneath. It HAS to be an s-trap.
FWIW I don't get any sewer gas issues out of it.
Our house was built in 1961, it was built with S traps. In 60 years we never had any problems or had any smells. I don't know what they did after we moved out, probably still the same 🤷♂️Also, they still sell S traps at the big box stores! I'm not going to worry about it 🤷♂️
The law being written down Vs how it’s enforced are vastly different things
They actually sell things at stores like Home Depot (those horrible flex pipes for example) that do not conform to codes in most all jurisdictions (or at all). They are legal to sell but illegal to use.
Edit: Not commenting on the P vs S trap debate, only that what they sell has nothing to do with code compliance.
@@Alexlfm That's for sure, but as long as they sell the stuff people will keep right on using it, especially if it's easier or cheaper😆
In some states they are still able to use them
Too clarify they are NOT illegal to have our replace. They are only against code to use in NEW installs
I just installed not one, but two S traps in a flip today! Ive been doing this work for over 30 years and have never seen one fail.
Well, that at 6:48 was misleading, the water is at the level it should.
The pipe not being transparent, doesn't mean that the water is just at the level where you can see the water.
i looked at them together, they were exactly the same level, he had to improvise right then and say something to make it look bad.
In Germany, every house has at least one pipe, which ends on the roof and ventilates the system.
This avoides two problems at once. The pipe system cannot be sucked empty, all kinds of traps are possible,
and the duct system is well ventilated so that no explosive gases can accumulate
I've got S Traps but i also live in a Rent House so i can't do anything to fix it, but luckily no sewer gas smell for me ever
I love in the USA you have plumbing inspections, here in the UK we have no such thing!. Shame really but fixing all those clueless “plumbers” bad work makes us good money and helps my customers peace of mind!
Recently bought an older house. I was running a dehumidifier in the basement kitchen area and when it's full I dump it in the sink. A couple of times we went down there and the whole room smelled terrible ... Long story short, I finally figured out that I have an S trap under that sink with no vent so when I dumped a full gallon of water in the sink it would siphon right through the trap and let sewer gas come in the room. I now pore most of the gallon and save about a half cup to pore slowly and it's fine.
We've had a few S-traps for years. They work just fine, but after using the stopper we have to refill them by turning the water back on briefly.
If it's an illegal fitting, why are they legally sold at places like Home Depot and other hardware stores?
don't bring that up next we'll have them banned from hardware stores. If you need to replace one it's fine to do.
went back and checked, the water in the S-trap and P-trap were exactly the same level, you were trying to sell us something that didn't change. check it
Sweden has s traps everywhere. Only have an end of line vent for the entire house.
As a licensed plumber from Australia
I completely disagree with your statements
The p trap style you are talking about is fully vented modified system which is completely unnecessary for a domestic application
Your test setup was poor and does not clearly show the results
Please don’t not strike fear into the domestic market about such trivial issues as this undermines our credibility
You are more likely for a floor waste to dry out as it is a larger diameter providing more airflow on both sides of the weir causing evaporation vs a basin waste drying out
its code up here, the building department requires it
@@seanshomeshop325 I’m always interested in learning something new, where are you from? And do you need the junction(tee) located in the wall to be vented either to atmosphere or AAV
In Australia we are allowed to connect DN40 to basins and vanities in any P or S trap configuration as long as the vertical pipe connect the trap doesn’t exceed 1.2m
@@rooey4193 in the US S-traps are illegal anywhere really to today's codes. And yes in the US we vent each P-Trap, most are thru the roof, some can be out the side of the house. a one-way vent is mostly used for kitchen islands...
In the US we arn't required to bring houses up to code, just new ones being built. I personally live in a home that was last renovated in the 1940's or 1950's and honestly have never had an issue, we don't have vents on any line outside of the main sewer vent and none that run back to it and have never had sewer gas issues.
just because a p-trap is better doesn't mean there is anything wrong with an s-trap. you make it sound like if you have an s-trap hurry up and get it removed. an s-trap works just fine.
0:24 something happened with the video here. It suddenly shifted to you not talking to us, but to a camera operator or the wall. You might want to talk to your producer. In a video, you want to be talking to the people watching the video.
Any trap can dry out given enough time even a P trap
Thumbs up from me just for that clip of Admiral Ackbar from STAR WARS 0:05 😎
If you're draining into a larger diameter pipe they usually don't siphon
Great insight on why it's better to go with a p'trap over an s'trap. When doing repairs on older homes, you can choose to stay with the s'trap(grand father claus) but always reccomend upgrading to a p'trap. Great video!👍
Yeah, ok, I live in a house that's 130 years old. Kitchen sink and downstairs bathroom sink, both drained through the floor, both with S traps and having lived here for 38 years myself, I've replaced sinks in both and put in new S traps and NEVER had an issue. This may be the code now but it's BS!!!!
Here in Utah, this is irrelevant. We only have outhouses.
It did the same thing on the p trap water is in the sink drain pipe and a s trap actually holds more water.
If you look at the s trap the water level is above the joint on the trap.
I wonder why then are there still a sort of S-Trap built in to a lot of toilets still sold?
Lol... My house is 21 years old. I have 5 S traps under the sinks. Guess what... Never had an issue in the 12 years I've lived there.
I'm probably not going to rush into replacing them any time soon.
S traps are not the only illegal type of plumbing traps. Another type of trap that is problematic and often found in homes built before 1950, is the drum trap, commonly found in bathrooms especially with claw foot tubs. Many times they are easily identified by the clean out plug near the tub, sometimes the sink also drained into it. Sometimes the clean out is on the bottom. For one, they tend to clog frequently because they are not self scouring. Many times they are unvented. It can be difficult to get a drain auger through. And finally they tend to be made from lead which is often very brittle and prone to fracture if forced is needed to remove the clean out, it's often corroded in place.
Um S traps are not illegal in all fifty States.
My kitchen sink drains in the yard and the sewer line has 2 vents in the yard. Had a fun time clearing the main line with a garden hose. No sewer gas but i had the sewer flow all over the back yard a couple times.
It seems like the "trap area" in an S trap can actually hold more water. Makes you think an S trap would actually work better
Hey how you doing Rodgers
I had the same issue at a service call where the guest room had a bathroom in it and the owner would invite his friends over every 6 months to every years and the home owner would smells sewage smell everyday I advise him to run his tub , lav sink and toilet every day so the traps wouldn't get dried up . He never called us back so I guess the suggestion worked .
Ease up on inserting those clips roger. This video felt too disjointed with all the interruptions from them. Just some cc from a random sub. Take care roger
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!
Stop using the word Illegal and start saying it doesn't meet current code.
We still use them here in Philadelphia PA if the are within distance of the vent. We still use single stack system.
Never installed an s trap that didn’t hold water and keep the gas out.
How long has it been since you’ve installed an S-Trap?
@@RogerWakefield S Trap Legal in Australia
@@RogerWakefield recently. I was desperate to replace a trap for a hand washing sink in a fast food restaurant. The raggedy supply store only had an s trap. That was around 2 years ago but I’ve done one within the past 2 months. Maybe the gas doesn’t come up in a commercial setting because they have 10 people using that sink 5 times every other hour. I could see how it could cause gas leakage in a residential situation where it is out of the way.
In the 90s Army Corps of Engineers built our building in Fort Knox KY, one of the toilets had the wax ring installed improperly. 💩🤢🤮
That sink to high heaven until they got it fixed
Do you ever encounter working drum traps anymore?
I was recently putting new HVAC under a house and someone one left behind after being ripped out and replaced with PVC recently.
funny enough I still see new pvc drum traps stocked in some big box stores, not sure if anyone uses them much. but I have seen a few pvc ones and removed many cast iron with iron pipes over the years.
Also if you have a drain that isn't used you can pour mineral oil into a it won't evaporate very quickly
I travel quite a bit and when I'm gone from home for several months I need to pour RV antifreeze into the drains before I leave to keep them from evaporating completely. The company I worked for years ago would not allow us maintenance dudes to install S-traps. The company always considered them unsafe and prone to leaking when the weather/working conditions changed. I had some in my rental properties and never had any issues, but they were well ventilated.
I walked into my bathroom this morning and it stunk like sewer gas so I walked back out and went into the kitchen and it stunk the same. Turns out my wife had farted in both rooms. 😂😂😂
Intros are getting better
Thank you!
My home was built 1924. Sewer gasses cannot back into my house,, because the main house trap blocks the gasses. When I renovated my bathroom, I replaced all the plumbing, drain and water pipes,including the house trap 17yrs ago, except my kitchen sink S trap. Any gasses rising from the sink are isolated behind the main trap, in the12ft new no hub lateral drain run and toilet/main vent stack. I'm lucky. No smells have ever come from the S trap.. The distance between the main trap and the S trap 10ft straight down. When I remove the 1954 porcelain sink and steal cabinets, I will install a 2in PVC drain and 1 1/2 P trap, while I relocate the water lines that are currently through the cabinet floor.
There isn't a single vent in my house let alone a p trap but what do you expect from a house built in the 1840 before household plumbing was common.
Maybe I missed it but any conversation about hydraulic gradient? Full S traps go back to the days of pot and drum traps!
Are you going to cover combination waste vent? There is a provision for s-traps if the system is sized to the proper chart.
Nobody wants to pay a plumber because of the hassle and expense, but if you do something yourself wrong, the hassle and expense will be much more.
Is a sure vent acceptable to turn an S trap into a vented P trap? I had an S-trap on a kitchen island with no wall access and i made a P trap with a sure vent. Was not going to go through the trouble of a bow vent
P traps do not have a dedicated vent, the plumber has to install one in the vent pipe system. The same is true for an S trap.
S traps are not "illegal" in my state, you can walk into any plumbing supply store and buy one. I have S traps in my kitchen and both bathrooms, I've lived in this house for 40 years and never had any problems with sewer gas.
Anyone using a P trap can convert it into an S trap by simply installing an elbow after the trap.
As long as the plumber properly designs the drain system there will be no problems.
My bathroom is from the 80s and has a s-trap on the sink that goes through the floor and my county has no permit office so no building/plumbing/electrical permits are required.
Where are you located?
Plumber, 45 years exp. Never have had a problem with s-traps. Learn how venting works!!
P.s. if your venting is wrong, installing a p-trap will NOT fix the problem! P-trap seals can pull just as quickly as an s-trap!
Illegal......- that is crazy...people can carry weapons but s-trap is illigal
Do s-traps drain worse than p-traps. I recently had some plumbing work done under my sink, and now I'm noticing that pressure builds up in the pipes when I run the water, causing water to back up into the sink and drain very slowly. I'm wondering if it is due to the s-trap
I fix these all the time with cutting a bigger hole, running 1-1/2 up, san tee with an auto vent all under the sink.
I have a trap in a utility sink in laundry room, no issues other than small leak but that’s most likely cause I installed wrong and haven’t fixed it lol
Mine has what appears to be an s trap replacement kit, is it normal for them to place the vent under the sink but not in the wall? With a clean out below the sink pipe?
you should have mentioned that an s trap can still happen when a vent is nearby.
superb video and you do an incredible job with each and every video ... thanks a ton!
I got a question directly pertaining to this. I installed a new vanity for a customer last week, and the guy refused to let me trim inside to let a p trap fit, or to open the drywall and move the drain. The shelf inside was directly under the drain so no room to have a trap that goes lower than the tailpipe. What he did instead is he used two J bends and formed a 360° loop, and then had the tail piece that goes into the wall facing up into that loop. Hopefully I'm explaining it right. Now if you just rotated your S trap in it would look the same except that this goes into the wall instead of the floor. I wonder if this is still ok. His other bathroom downstairs had the exact same thing. I had never seen this before. I have pictures if you'd like I don't know if I can link it. After watching your video I'm semi-convinced they are just functionally S traps. Customer said it's worked perfectly fine for years.
a picture is worth a thousand words...would love to see that as I have the exact problem!
@@chantalbrousseau4592 if you type in imgur's site address followed by /6hd6BJ6 you should be able to see it. Hope it helps.
@@cdurkinz got it....thank you!
I added an extra 1 to 2inch pipe in between the two p-traps. So i have more water in my s-trap.
Dang, Roger's got me looking under all my sinks now. Every one is a P trap with a vent. All good 😁
Whoever the editor is, I love them.
What about reversing p-traps
For deeper sinks? Is it illegal?
Well, interesting video.
I don't know how to find out if their illegal/outdated in my state or not... I did a google search & couldn't find anything..
That opening was brilliant
That is why I only use lead drum traps.
It's a trap had me waiting all Day with notification then I miss it lol.i had changed so .many S trap to P traps.some times hard when the drain is in the middle of the kitchen sink floor
What's weird is toilets are made with s-traps...at least the ones I've seen. What's even weirder is when our toilet hasn't been used by anyone in a few hours, there's a slight hint of sewer smell. The bowl water is still at the "line" in the toilet, and recently I recaulked around the toilet. But still, there's that hint if sewer. Not all the time though.
They are not illegal in Pennsylvania
For a better result of real world for old S-Trap in old building you should have created an artificial clog further down the end and show what happen in most old building. Like recently i just changed a whole pipe section that was rusted out. When i opened the 2" pipe it was filled half way with sewer clay or whatever you want to call this greasy mess. Just cleaning this remaining section so i could install the new plastic pipe took me like 30min.
And let's not talk about my grand father's kitchen sink. The entire lenght of this pipe was 100% filled with this sewer clay for a good 20 feeth. Took me well over an hour to clear it all the way with no special tool in hand. I just used smaller pipes and jammed them in there to pull out this junk. The pipe went from 2" new _Insert 100 years inbetween_ to fully filled sewer clay to unclogged with ~3/4" freed.
The Uniform plumbing code is way overkill and is prompt up by unions who can’t get away from individual venting every single freaking fixture “because it’s best?” The International Plumbing Code lets you get away with the bare minimum, but as long as you follow the rules, all will be well. Put an air admittance valve on top of a San tee and stub out a p trap to retrofit an S trap if you get any kind of a smell. No smell = not to many worries and I have seen highly unsanitary job on remodels throughout the years and very rarely does it cause any problems and when it does it’s from dumping all fixtures at once through an improperly sized wet vent with more than one fixture past the vent stack, or it’s a discharge of a pump into the sanitary system that blows the trap seals. Really and truly if you do get a smell with an s trap, it’s probably a bad seal on a wax ring on a toilet in the bathroom and not the lavatory at all.
will you show how to or if even possible to install a p trap with a drain that enters threw the floor
A tee
Dear Roger,
I am in an apartment built in 1954 and it seems like every time I take a shower I would smell something awful so not being a plumber myself I resorted to using chlorox bleach by first turning on the shower water then pouring half a jug of chlorox bleach into the drain then waiting five minutes before jumping into the shower. I calculate I am paying $90.00 per month in bleach just so I won’t smell the awful gases from the street as I don’t want to get sick from that. I can’t see the traps for the shower as I am in a second floor apartment and it’s in the walls so it’s all a mystery to me the plumbing. Should I call LA county inspectors to fix the problem and I have talked to other neighbors in the apartment complex and they smell the awful gases too. Could it be that the building is too old and probably the pipes along the way have corroded deep along the pathway to the street therefore making it prohibitive expensive to repair for the current owners or should I move altogether where I can live normally. I probably got a hypothyroid issue because of those gases from the past. Anyone help me please.😩
For starters, I would not pour bleach down the drain, it can react with a bunch of different chemicals and substances in your drain and cause major problems. I would call the apartment building owners and have them send someone out to inspect the pipes. Just by going off the info you told me and not being able to asses in person, it’s difficult to really know what the problem is. Getting a professional to inspect the pipes would be the first step
@@RogerWakefield Thankyou Mr. Wakefield I will call the apartment owners for inspection. I didn’t know chlorox bleach can cause problems to other substances down the pipe as I thought these chemicals were made for pipes added to some posts on the internet say one way to eliminate pipe odor is to our chlorox bleach but if you say it’s unsafe I will trust you. I need to research more as I am confused. 👍
The reasons the trap didn't empty might be because... * The vertical drop was too short to generate the required suction. * The volume of water "flushed" was too small. * The diameter of your trap was too large. Good work though, thanks!
Sewer gasses were a big problem in the Soviet Union.
I am having trouble with my septic tank keeps beeping and had it pumped :/ they said i needed to replace the pump that agatates the water any tips and thanks for the videos
Then why do they still make and sell S-traps?
Um maybe in Texas. But, is still legal in some States. You know it’s like the US is a Union of Nation States.
It would be interesting to see a solution for an update from S- to P-trap without relocating the old through floor drain. Or is it impossible? 🤔
Would you move the p-trap install to under the floor if wanting to only update the drain and its not a full bathroom Reno?
Converting it to a p-trap You could plumb it with a studor vent(a.a.v.) but you would still need a sanitary tee. If you are trying to avoid cutting into drywall.
@@Vehslayer that’s the way we do it up here 🇨🇦 sani tee with an AAV (we call em Cheater vents, and need to be close as possible to flood level rim
Honestly I don’t own a house and I don’t work plumbing but I enjoy your videos
Well I appreciate you watching
@@RogerWakefield well thank you for making the subject accessible to laymen like me!
In Finland only bottle traps are used.
Is it just my eyes or the water stays the same level on pop up drain side? In the first example video cuts off as soon as his finger moves to right side (sink pipe) and water IS lower level than left bend side. Also with S trap first it would be fair t to see the actual j band portion ALL in clear as well instead of assuming what happens behind white PVC and water level on pop up side maybe 1/8" higher than with P trap trial. It might be due to wrong way of testing but this video instead of convincing me actually shown me not much difference instead.
I have an s trap with a vent installed, for some reason water won’t drain, and the trap and Fittings are all new so I know it’s not clogged, can anyone explain what is going on!?
We need a “Why Heel in-let quarter bends are illegal when serving a water closet!”
This is straight from the 2015 ipc study companion
Lowheelinletsonaquarterbendcanbecomefloodedandthereforeshouldnotbeutilizedas wet-ventedconnectionstothedrainagesystem.Becausesideinletquarterbendsnormallydo notbecomefloodedonbrancheswithoutwaterclosetstheycanbeutilizedasawetvented connection.
Let's try that again...
Low heel inlets on a quarterbend can become flooded and therefore should not be utilized as wet-vented connections to the drainage system. Because side inlet quarterbends normally do not become flooded on branches without water closets they can be utilized as a wet vented connection.
Which side of a p-trap do I Put the 90 in for let’s say floor drain. Guy I work with swore the 90 goes in the flat side of the trap.
The J bend in your example is installed backwards....
Great vid! Vent lines play a significant part in the P-trap/S-trap configuration. P-trap wins every time. A quick critique: the oblique shots of you in your presentation are unpleasant and awkward. It's much more engaging to watch you straight on. I'd ditch them. God bless & subbed!