You need to contact the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) this is a potential safety issue! I watch other channels and other brands with lippert frames are having the same issue. The RV community should be reporting this issue to NHTSA.
I can't love this comment more. ❤️ Exactly what and Who should be involved. It is definitely a dangerous and possibly a deadly scenario for GD to ask owners if such an issue to travel hundreds of miles down highways with a rig having a potential catastrophic failure.
Love your channel and family and content especially this one. If I was you guys I would lawyer up and get all the RV manufactures and suppliers to start backing their products. There is more evidence out there with the same situation that you are experiencing. Pray for you and family and wish you all the best of luck.
YOU GUYS ROCK!!! Hopefully a law firm will be able to gather up other owners with frame failures and present a class action suit against GD! I will continue to pray that all good things come your way for your family❤️😊🙏
My wife and I went to the Nashville RV show this weekend. We had decided to go with Grand Design. Everyone has been telling us they were the leaders of the pack. Seeing a lot of your videos helped sway our decision to Grand Design. I'm so glad I saw this video last night. I just showed it to my wife, and we agreed to cancel our meeting on Wednesday with our salesperson. Not buying a GD now.
We, too, are thankful you saw this video before you decided on a manufacturer. Even if they've made major changes to the frames of their current units, it doesn't undo the fact that there are thousands and thousands of unsafe units on the road just waiting to claim someone's life! The care about the sale, not the customer, it seems. Our buddy over at My Bucket List Day posted a video with the Brinkley rep from the Tampa Super Show. It seems they are building a much more robust frame. Their owners left GD when Winnebago took over. It is our thought that they understood the storm that would soon be brewing at GD in regard to cost savings measures being taken! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=2cBbJTqfog779ebE
I highly recommend a trailer with NXG BAL frame instead of anything with a Lippert frame. NXG Are bolted frames and much more durable. That’s what we had on our Winnebago Micro Minnie.
Kevin, my wife and I were at a local RV show in MI last weekend. The new Brinkley toy hauler is delivered with the same hitch you have on your rig. I asked the salesman, who was the manufacturer of the frame on that rig and he said lippert! When I asked him about frame flex, he acted like he had never heard of it or frames breaking. The industry is keeping this a secret.
the fact is, its not a Lippert problem. One, Lippert builds the frame to the manufacture specs. 2, its the wall frame that sits on the Lippert frame the is broken. Its literally the wall that GD built. Brinkley and a couple others dont worry about it because they build their wall frames properly. GD cheeped out to save on weight. So Brinkley, East to West and River Stone, don't care what pin box you use. Brinkley honestly has not heard of it, because they dont have a problem nor will they. Just like E2W, which to date, has not had a single issue either. GD cut cost on material, and it is now causing the issue.
@@cw3394 “it’s not a Lippert problem”. 😂😂😂😂. If it were only Grand Design, I would agree. Frames are cracking for many manufacturers. It appears crappy steel and shoddy welding may be the cause, not design.
@@ryanryan6207 Im telling you, its no the lippert frame, its the aluminum frame in the wall. Most brands use the same design and spces as GD, there are few that have their own in house structural engineers, and came up with their own design. Elkhart is very small and everyone in the RV business knows each other, they trade employees like the NFL. Look at the management of GD and Keystone, since the main 5 left and started Brinkley. Guarantee you the wall frames are the same in VanLeigh, Montana, GD, and several others. I have not heard nor seen an actual Lippert frame crack, I have seen them bend, but only on a GD toy hauler. But again the frame and frame thickness is is built to GD specs, not Lippert.
All these people complaining about frame failure...imagine how many people are experiencing this who aren't on social media. I wish I could like this video a million times. I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and I hope you create a movement to force Grand Design to do right by their customers. Thank you for putting a spotlight on the truth!!
That is the scary part! If there are this many online, imagine those that haven't yet discovered they are experiencing it yet, or those that simply do not go online to see the trend. We wish you could like this video a million times, too! Sharing it and getting the word out is what will be most helpful for the industry to get the wakeup call it so desperately needs! We appreciate your support!
@@PavingNewPaths Why would the RV makers scrimp on their frames . Well could it be that the powers that be , the Global Zionist NWO bunch plans to end Diesel and Gas ( Global Warming) knows that RV will quickly become a thing of the past and warranties with them. So get the MONEY and dump the customer . After all they will not buy another anyway. 15 minute cities will be the norm then. So the Powers that be, the Globalist NWO powers and big money does not plan to do anything. They in fact started cutting corners about the las 8 years and quality went to hell. So there is your answer about your warranty.
We had been looking at 5th wheels, mainly for the spaciousness. At the beginning GD was tops on our list. As an engineer, something didn't look right on any of the brands. I followed most of the brand on social media and one thing became clear, most of the issues (across brands) occurred with the rigs over 30 ft or so. The failure on the larger units starts to make sense when you consider the size/weight increases that are on frames that use the same frame/axle/wheels/springs as smaller rigs, for example using 2 axles rated at 7K each on a trailer that, in most cases, exceed 14K lbs. That works only if the trailer never moves, however under normal conditions the suspension is seeing 2-3X that load due to wind, potholes, etc., that's why we see posts complaining about broken axles/springs/blown tires on a daily basis. It's likely this is what also causes the frame to flex and ultimately fail. I determined there's two types of larger fifth wheel trailers - those that have major failure and those that will. We ended purchasing a class A. i like they are built on a real truck frame and are required to meet federal specifications, unlike the flimsy 5th wheel units.
@STLtoTPA or going forward, Lippert does the smart thing and over-builds their frames above and beyond what the OEMs want and tell the OEMs to take the overbuilt frame or leave it. Same with axles and suspension components.
I agree. I know folks with non- toy hauler GD and none have issues. It’s usually the largest rigs like Momentum that have problems. ALL trailers have frames that flex or else they would snap apart. How much flex and where is the difference and also whether the flex cracks welds.
When we were looking at 5th wheels, we brought up the issue with axle ratings versus the gross weight of the unit. We were told they deduct the pin weight to determine the axle specs. Like everyone else, the manufacturers will stretch a nickel as far as they can.
Perhaps the manufacturers should employ you for your engineering skills! You obviously know more than those currently engineering the frames. I think you were smart to purchase a Class A. The fact that they have to answer to federal speculations makes all the difference in cutting corners or not. It's time for the RV industry to answer to those same agencies.
Boy did I dodge a bullet. 2 years ago we went out to buy our first brand new RV and I was focused on getting a Grand Design. Because of a lot of things, we chose another manufacturer and now after hearing horror stories of the Schwintec Slides and Frame Flex (Frame Flex, Frame Flex - just got 3 strikes) I'm so glad we avoided Grand Design.
We also dodged a bullet. I wanted a Grand Design also, but because they did not have it in stock and I came across another brand totally be accident . We fell in love with it and we still have no issues with it.
Grand Design said: "You bought a used unit that is nearly 5 years old!" Sounds like they were actually saying: "We thought everyone knew that our upper 5 or even 6 figure units are built as cheaply as possible. We do not expect our pieces of garbage to last more than a couple years!"
You need to contact the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. They push for recalls when customers report the same issues, or issues shared by the same products.
We have the pin box that came brand new with the 2022 Grand Design 398M and we only use ours a couple times a year. It has less than 11K miles. We are having frame problems. Very glad to see you making videos like this. There are many of us having frame problems!!
We are so sorry to hear that you are having problems with your frame, like so many others. It's laughable that they want us to believe this is only happening to a select few users.
Barb & I ordered our shirts this morning. The RV industry is about to get a wake up call, not just Grand Disaster. I am sure you two are up to the task! My hat is off to both of you for keeping a good attitude, telling the truth without exaggeration, and the loyalty you show to your subscribers. We have benefited from your “how to” videos, and enjoyed your incredibly positive content. Remember, you have friends! Please keep us all updated and let us know how we can help!
Thank you for ordering our shirts! We hope they serve as a needed piece to the puzzle of waking up the industry! It took a few days to process the email and decide how we could film it without having our emotions take over, so we are glad that showed through the video. It's important that information such as this is shared in a non-biased and non-emotional way, so that viewers can gather the facts and make informed decisions based on the facts they have been presented with. We're glad to hear our videos have provided you with helpful and enjoyable content! We appreciate your offer to help and for looking out for us! ;)
It’s definitely a manufacturer problem. Manufacturers order the frames from the frame company (mostly lippert) and Lippert will build them to the specs the manufacturer requests. Usually, those specs that are requested by the manufacturer are at the bare minimum to support what the manufacturer intends to build on the frame, just to save on cost.
After buying a bumper pull GD rv, I started looking into the frames because of videos like this. After some research I found a video (sorry, lost where it was on UA-cam) that discussed a conversation with Lippert frame division. Long story short - the frames are requested for xyz specs and when the quote is giving to ANY trailer manufacturer (they make most frames for most brands) a lot of the quotes are returned with the problem of cutting costs to the min of what the frame would carry on perfectly smooth roads and conditions that do not exist on the planet Earth. Yes lippert made the frames but they did not overload it…the trailer manufactures did. So check with Lippert to see what they might recommend. And by the way, what led me down that rabbit hole to find that info was rv trailers having leaf spring mounts rip off the frames while going down the road. Lippert added an extra box frame sections between the frames and the spring perches to fix this issue and thankfully, ours has this already.
I wouldn't give Lippert a free pass here though. They still own the engineering and build of the frame. They have the moral responsibility to tell the manufacturer of the RV a solid NO if not to the correct standards.
@@mattwarner6599 does lippert really know though? The manufacturer gives them specs. They meet them. They don't know if it is going on some super heavy or super light Fiver I'm not saying they shouldn't be asking GD what's up with all the frame issues, but I still think the problem lies with the RV manufacturer
Brilliant video! No story from us, we're not even on social media anymore. Comments getting turned off are a tell. Your approach to the problem is going to be one to follow. Thanks for sharing your story as it impacts so many. Your points nailed it. So sorry you and your family are going through this no so small problem. We love the shirts! Looking forward to following your next steps.
Hey you guys are incredible. Taking on the stressful situations that you graciously shared with us with the integrity of the highest level is admireable. I really enjoy your informative videos and hope the best for ya.
I absolutely love your attitude. You two are a force to be reckoned with.!! Once again, you have talked us all another lesson. That you can push back that you can stick up for yourself and that it’s OK to do that. A lot of people aren’t good at that. This is just one more way you are giving our viewers and future RVers Confidence. It’s unfortunate you had to do it this way.
Thank you! It is very important that we stick up for not only ourselves, but the thousands of people in our shoes and any future customers looking to buy an RV! We all have a voice, and if we come together to use it, maybe we will be the change that the industry so desperately needs! We certainly didn't want to do it this way, but they have left us with no choice at this point!
Man, what a mess. This is the sort of thing that will simply destroy a company (being in complete denial of an obvious problem). Sorry you guys are going through this. Frankly anyone looking at a Grand Design right now is absolutely insane until they legitimately address this issue.
Wow! I was at an RV show yesterday and looking at a Grand Design. After watching your informative video, that you supplied a running narrative between your correspondence back and forth with the manufacturer, has made my mind up to take my money to a different manufacturer. This is why these video posts are so important. The rv manufacturers, and not just Grand Design, need to stand behind the customer as well as their products...after the sale. Frame flex? Equals poor construction, poor oversight in the production line and The Worst customer service experience for a faithful customer. I hope that the Fifth Wheel manufacturer that I go with, and it will not be GD, upholds any warranty/manufacturing claims that I may experience after the sale, uphold their responsibilities to the purchaser/owner. I'm sorry for your troubles and grateful for your share. Thank you.
Please research whatever manufacturer you decide to purchase from! Our inbox is full of customers from nearly every manufacturer that have experienced frame failure. It seems to be an industry problem that is not specific to GD. Good luck in your decision!
A big problem is Chinese steel I've restored 69 year old campers whose frames are still square and solid but Today's cheap crappy china made products just can't hold a little ght to American made products from metals to components but under Democrats it all about destroying American product and paying their communist friends for garbage communist people have no self worth or pride so why would their work have it
You guys are 100% right this is the best video you’ve ever put out in my opinion and yes, grand design needs to stand behind their products. I already knew about this flame flex broken frame problem when we purchased our new Riverstone and that’s the reason I didn’t buy a grand design, my kids purchased one a few years ago and had the same problem with there’s. This has been going on for a long time and they choose not to do anything about it. I am so glad you put this video out there. You guys did an amazing job!! you know your shit and you know your unit.
Thank you! We are sorry to hear your kids experienced this nightmare! We are astonished at GD's approach to bury their head in the sand and not acknowledge that they are the cause of this issue. It is our hope that no one else is taken advantage of in the way we, and many other customers, have been by GD!
Kevin, y’all keep up the fight. We purchased a brand new Solitude in 2019 for $80k, not chump change for East Texas folks. We experienced the same frame flex problems beginning from the 150 mile trip from the dealer to our home. After less than 1000 miles of travel, the unit was literally coming apart, almost identical to the problems you are experiencing. Grand Design warranty procedures required us to carry it back to the dealership and yes there was a wait time of several months. This was our fourth fifth wheel and our last. We sold it for a huge loss after less than a year of ownership. The towable RV industry as a whole should be completely ashamed at the way they are producing their units. Unfortunately, I feel the only way something will change the industry is when one of these units causes a major accident and a law firm such as Goudarzi and Young gets involved.
We will keep up the fight, as this is a huge safety risk for anyone owning these under engineered units! We have so many stories from Solitude owners in our inbox who also experienced frame failure. It's disgusting and sad that a company can get away with this, and we are sorry to hear you lived this nightmare. The RV industry definitely needs some government oversight, since they cannot be trusted to do the right thing and keep their customers and others on America's highways safe. We can't say we would ever purchase another unit as the industry stands, should it come to that. We pray it doesn't take a catastrophic event taking place before major changes are made in the industry.
Hey Kevin, I have a 2006 5th wheel RV and was going to upgrade to a Grand Design Toy hauler! But with all the problems with Frame Flex(Broken Frames) I'm thinking about keeping what I have with no problems, I told quite a few people that was also looking to upgrade....Keep up the good work!!
Of you don't have any major problems with your 2006, you might be better off keeping it, as the industry is in a sad state currently! Let it fix itself before you upgrade, if possible!
Aside from this issue, I already loved your videos and format, now i love it even more! Very sorry about your problem and hope you can get some sort of "satisfactory" resolution. We need you all back on the road recording your "Adventures" for the rest of us!
Great video!!! They are called Recreational Vehicles - other vehicles do not fall apart going down the road like our 5th wheels did. Slides, jacks, broken welds,etc. We opted to stop RVing. Our brand new 4 Season RVs never held up very well. They were very expensive units (to purchase & repair) so we made a lifestyle change away from RVing. I have no doubt you will get this issue properly repaired & help all the other RVers out there. Thanks for presenting the real situation!!!!!
We are glad this video reached you before you made your purchase! Most frames are built by Lippert, so be very thorough in your search for a unit! Our buddy from My Bucket List Day just interviewed a Brinkley rep at the Tampa show, and it seems they have built a solid unit on a solid frame. We have not seen it in person but think you should check it out! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=PwiVh1thgjJF-gFU
We had a weld break on our axle and contacted Lippert directly after NO help from manufacturer or warranties we had. They were extremely helpful and overnighted parts then once we submitted our receipts they reimbursed us for the entire cost of the repair.
We cancelled the purchase of our RV due to so many warranty issues. We told the dealer we just do not want to be part of the nightmare. At our age it is not a risk we are willing to take.
Yes, you can start the recall process. I did so with my 2010 Kawasaki Voyager motorcycle. When slowing down with the clutch pulled in the rpm's would drop down to zero and the engine would turn off. Press the starter button and the bike would restart. It didn't always stall but stalling once is too much. Dealer looked at it twice and said they couldn't duplicate the problem so I called Kawasaki and was told I need to learn how to ride a motorcycle :/ I had been riding for about twenty years, I think I know what I'm doing. I found other owners with the same problem. So I called the NHTSA and filed a complaint. Then I went to motorcycle forums and asked everyone with the same problem to call and file a complaint. Eventually enough people called. Kawasaki issued a recall to have the ECU replaced. I had complained several times to Kawasaki and was told I was the only person experiencing this problem which was a blatant lie. Other owners had called with the same complaint. Call the NHTSA and start the process.
That's great to know! You'd think the manufacturers would be recalling the units themselves before there is a catastrophic loss! We filed our claim with the NHTSA and will be updating everyone on that in an upcoming video! We had no idea the NHTSA existed prior to reading these comments, so we appreciate you sharing that information!
We bought a new Alliance 42v13 in August and got 7 weeks of camping in before the ohio winter shut us down. You and your channel are an inspiration, trustworthy, and transparent my lady and I can't thank you enough for your channel for info and entertainment. We'll be in Texas at COTA in April, if we see you on the road I'll break out the smoker and thank you properly! I hope the resolution to your problem is smooth, best of luck!!!!
Congrats on your Alliance purchase! Of all the RV's that have had frame failure from customers sharing their experience in our inbox, Alliance and Brinkley have the least (or none) than all the other manufacturers! We are glad to hear you enjoy our channel and we'd love to take you up on some smoked meat if our paths cross! Safe travels to you!
It’s the same in Australia, totally unregulated industry full of nightmares. It so wrong they did this to you, thank you for warning people. Safe travels.
If GD were to take a proactive approach, it would mean they were fully aware of the flex issues and therefore become liable for all flex issues. It could be time for insurance to total it out and find another brand. Keep after it and thanks for taking us along for the journey. Oh yea, I'm loving the new shirts.
I think they are fully aware of the issue, but are definitely being reactive to this, so as to not accept liability! We are considering all options at this point and hope to come to a resolution soon! We're glad to hear you like the shirts!
Sorry to hear about your trailer. Your videos have offered us to carefully inspect 2:37 and repair our S-Class and Ford drw. We are part timers and have been aware of all the issues with traveling on the road. Something good will come your way, because you have offer the rv community so much. Stay strong and hang in there. My wife and I look forward to your videos.
Thank you for the support, this issue is way bigger than us, the entire industry needs to stop taking advantage of the customer who buys into the lifestyle only to be left hanging when they need the manufacture the most!
I’m so glad I saw this video. I almost purchased one of these but noticed some trim falling off inside and other issues outside of a brand new toy hauler at the dealership. Thank you for the enlightenment and preventing me from making a huge mistake in purchasing one of these units. I now begin my research into frame manufacturers.
@@PavingNewPaths I just saw another video and they mention Brinkley frames being the only ones making them how they should be able to support the weight of the unit. They also said 7 out of 10 frames break. His unit was broken in 17 different spots and the entire front part being held on by only a few support beams.
@@PavingNewPaths , the manufacturer issues a specification and Lippert builds them to the specification. For instance, Alliance specifies gussets in certain areas on the frame and "V-welds" in the spring hangers -- LIppert builds them as specified by the manufacturer. ua-cam.com/video/mMKhkSXgnmI/v-deo.html
Wow Kevin and Alecia, I am really sorry to hear GD has treated you this way. Shame on GD for they way they are handling this "not so isolated" incident. As I mentioned in your last video, unfortunately companies like that are only out for their shareholders and customers will take it in the rear. I am so grateful that we recently sold our GD travel trailer and bought our fifth wheel from a different manufacturer. We had seriously considered a Solitude S-Class, but between the frame issues and how they plumb their RV's I am grateful we went a different direction. I wonder if you all should cut your losses and get something different instead of trying to repair it? I'll be heading over to your page to purchase a couple of shirts. Hopefully that will help in some small way.
Thank you for your support! We are weighing all options at this point before we move forward with a decision! We are glad you chose a different manufacturer, too! Hopefully, your new rig and the manufacturer are treating you nicely!
If that frame totally fails with you going down the highway, that’s a safety issue. There should be a recall on these. Shame on GD. I’d find any and as many others with the same issue and form a class action lawsuit on GD. Making them recall and fixing every last one for free!!! Good luck I hope you can get yours fixed.
Yes, it's a huge safety issue! Yes, we are upset that our RV is broken, but we are more concerned that no one seems to see the huge safety concern taking place!
Thank you for this video. Customer service can make or break a company. My wife and I are in the market for a new fifth wheel. We were heavily going towards grand design now we will go elsewhere.
You're very welcome! We agree that how you handle a situation tells a lot about who you are as a company. Even something as bad as frame failure could be a positive experience for the customer, if it were handled with great care and empathy. In our email and conversations with them, we never asked for them to cover the cost. We simply wanted to know the next steps and not have to pry information from them. Their lack of empathy and care about the matter was quite shocking.
It’s not just GD I have a 2021 keystone Alpine 3850rd with the same issues. But I’m lucky I’m still under warranty and when I called keystone they were more than helpful on what I needed to do. They told me that affinity RV repair elkhart has done many lippert frame repairs. I made and appointment with them and hope my outcome is better than yours. Thanks for keeping all us in the loop and love your videos.
You're right! Many of the manufacturers have had frame failures! We are glad to hear you are still under warranty and have a manufacturer that is willing to work with you! We've heard nothing but great things about Affinity RV, so you'll probably be in great hands with them! Good luck to you!
In my experience fixing our frame did it myself it wasn't too bad to fix. Took some time and ingenuity but did it in our driveway. I agree about not towing it i towed ours for around 300 miles after i discovered ours was broken in order to get home. Ours needed a bunch of gussets after it was pulled back into place.
@6ddalton sorry i do not i was mad at the time basically got the same run around as Kevin and Alicia. It was a few years ago and it was on a keystone cougar we switched to jayco brand because I will never buy another keystone product because of the way they handled it.
That's great that you fixed yours yourself! Towing ours the last 500 miles to get it to our home base was the most stressful 500 miles we've ever driven.
@@rob9675 are you aware that Keystone and Jayco are both owned by Thor Industries, along with Airstream, Entegra, and multiple others. They also own at least a dozen suppliers. There's about three main players in the industry now and it doesn't bode well for the consumer.
I have seen a few videos about frame flex. There all the larger 5th wheels. So, there has to be an issue. I'm glad you all are calling them out. Keep at it!!!!
I've been following the frame flex or "broken frame" issues on YT for about a year now, and that is how I found your channel. I am now subscribed. What I thought was interesting is that two weeks ago, I went to a local RV show here in Washington State, and the primary brand they were selling were from Grand Design. One of the dealer reps approached me and was bragging about this being the best brand on the market, and that he wouldn't feel comfortable selling other brands to a customer. I then mentioned that I've heard quite a bit about the Lippert frames on these 5th-wheels causing a lot of grief for customers. He had no response, and then changed the subject. That told me a lot. I wish you well with resolving these inexcusable defects by GD., and I'll keep checking in on your progress.
Thank you for subscribing to our channel! We are glad to have you as part of our community! The employee's complete denial about the subject almost seems orchestrated. Possibly like lawyers have asked them to admit nothing and dodge the questions completely. It definitely tells you a lot, when a basic UA-cam search shows that your broken frame is not the isolated event they so badly want you to believe it is. Thank you for your support and we'll have another video being released soon regarding this issue!
Thanks! It's Alecia, but everyone spells it differently, so I don't mind! They would care if it was their family riding beside a rig with a compromised frame!
Affinity RV Group in Goshen, IN are experts in this arena. Our 16 year old rig is currently there for frame repairs. Other YT’ers have used them and their google reviews are A+. So far, our experience has been very professional and the quote we have is significantly less than what you were quoted by GD. Good luck ☘️
100 pct you are right , but there shouldn’t be this biggest problem that it is , and until the rv industry starts standing you to that scum bag Jason lippert this will keep happening
I watched your previous video just the other day and was pleasantly surprised that this one came out. First of all I think you two have handled this whole ‘situation’ perfectly and professionally. Reaching out to any ‘repair shop’ that feels they can fix ( repair) your unit was the best decision considering the situation. 👍
@@KylesRV Have you read the overwhelming number of positive comments and people that have experienced the same thing! The only viewer I have insulted was you!
Boy oh boy this definitely struck a nerve on Facebook with the GD crowd. I tried to share and was shut down immediately. But then people were posting we are just Karen's making trouble. I own a 2016 Momentum 327M and she's been very good to me. The people commenting haven't taken the time to even watch the video. It's an industry problem but obviously GD doesn't want bad press. Thanks again for being honest and documenting everything so we can see the truth. This by far is the best video on frame failure and so was your previous post. They are scared of you and want to bury this quickly. God bless you for speaking truths
So we've been told! You, and many others, have been shut down in an attempt to shut you up about the beloved GD brand! Brand loyalty is very important, and we used to think GD had great units! But when something like this happens to you, and you are exposed to just how many people share your same experience, it makes you rethink your loyalty to a brand or industry!
I was at the florida supershow yesterday walking the 397th and when I asked the rep (claimed to be a youtuber himself) about the frame-flex issue he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about. He also mentioned the warranty was fully transferable (product warranty and not buyer warranty). The 397tHS was our primary consideration for full time rv living but after that, I think we have decided to look at other options instead.
Maybe part of their customer service training is teaching them how to have no recollection of conversations about "frame flex" that they have been privy to! It's really sad at this point that they take no ownership in the problem they have created! From the mouths of Grand Design and Lippert, the frames are only in warranty for one year from the date the owner takes ownership. I'm sorry, but if you only have a one-year confidence in the frame of your unit, you are doing something wrong! We've heard great things about the Brinkley frames, although we haven't seen them in person. You can check out the UA-cam channel, My Bucket Day List, as he interviewed a Brinkley rep at the show recently! Consider subscribing if you find his information helpful! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=MQlJKQHAN8HpNS05
You can't sue rv industry,their lobbyist have made sure of that in every state and federal level. People that purchase new/used RVs and warranties from dealers,etc. are just simply stupid; an RV is not backed up like most any other consumer product,been that way for all time and eternity.
Hearing all the issues of Rv’s and campers. How they all are finding ways to not warranty anything even on new ones. Almost has me tempted to buy a van or ulity trailer and build it camper use myself
Thank you for spreading the real truth! We have a reflection and met people in SD this summer who we’re headed to have their frame fixed! They had to leave it a month and rent a place to live. He is an rv inspector and they were not going to allow him in for repairs! They were spit of pocket for a place to live since they are full time ! Thanks for making the video for those having this same problem. From a Texan to another Texan!
You are most welcome, fellow Texan! It's crazy that they don't allow people to come see the damage and repairs. What are they hiding? Especially for an RV inspector, that could use that knowledge to help fellow RV'ers who may be experiencing these issues.
Thank you for the video. I was going back and forth between Grand Design and Alliance. I will now be purchasing an Alliance RV. Being a fellow Texan, I have little respect for companies that don't treat customers with courtesy and respect. It seems they have forgotten a basic premise. "Good business is always good business." Treat your customers right and they will always come back. Love the channel. Hang in there. I'll be praying for ya'll!
We have heard great things about Alliance and Brinkley! They seem to be the leaders in the industry in building solid and safe units! It doesn't take much to offer customers empathy and understanding, even if you can't do anything for them with the problem they are incurring. It's definitely a lost art in business these days! Thank you for the prayers, we really appreciate it!
It doesn’t stop. I’m on my third fifth wheel. They all crack if you travel full time .Just don’t get suckered into believing a different brand is any better .
We have a GD and have been aware of the flex frame. We travel light and part time. We plan to improve our suspension. The summo springs is another issue for rvers. It's how heavy these trailers travel down the roads. Rough or smooth. And for how long.
Hallelujah to that observation and comment. I just watched where DRV Luxury Suites LCI frames are failing: (ua-cam.com/video/OQ0kbkyKzt4/v-deo.html) and Montana- Keystone LCI frames are failing (ua-cam.com/video/8WMbnuXGdrk/v-deo.html).
@@JandARVReviews-BAL on the frame of our new 5th wheel. From what I can tell it's built really well. I've watched a lot of these videos and I have inspected my frame and haven't seen any of these issues. I especially like how beefy the leaf spring hangers are compared to Lippert frames.
@@F450FTW That’s awesome to know! I check everything out before we head to a campground. We currently have a KZ product and haven’t had any major issues. Thank you so much for the comment!
They are about to be sued big time and they know it. Grand Deception knows who I am because I have no chill. I will continue making comments on Matt, and JDs and Josh's videos because it's catching new buyers attention and people are asking what Frame Flex is. I make comments on Facebook, reddit, tiktok, Instagram, too. I'm not stopping until they recall all of these units and make this right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE KNOWINGLY SENDING OUT DEATH TRAPS. They better hope I don't find a death or injury related to this because that will put this suit on a whole other level, and they know it. I hope you recorded these calls. The OKC VA taught me to record everything because humans SUCK!!!!!!
You're welcome! Just do a ton of research on whatever manufacturer you are considering, as this isn't just a GD issue! Our inbox is full of viewers who have all had frame failure from nearly every manufacturer on the market!
@@PavingNewPaths i don't plan to move mine often but if moving it seems to be the main issue it kinda defeats the purpose of the RV to me. Any advice on model/brand would be helpful for a complete noob.
As I was watching, also knowing about the other videos I have watched about the "Frame Failures" I was thinking that that soon we should be seeing a Class Action Suit about this issue! Then I started reading the comments, and I see that i'm not the only one that thinks this way!! Stay safe and warm there! You all are on my nightly prayer list!!
We really appreciate your support and prayers. Maybe they will be hit with a Class Action Lawsuit if they don't feel a voluntary recall is necessary. Hopefully it's not filed after they've killed someone's family member due to the frame they designed that failed.
@@PavingNewPaths I too hope it doesn't come to that, but some companies have a hard head so to speak, so it may take a serious incident to "slap them up the side of there head" which no one is killed or serious injured.
I don’t own a GD camper… your video is very enlightening. Glad to see your fact reporting and please continue the updates. Btw, I was considering a GD… NOT NOW!!! 30:44
No I would not but we aren't talking about a TV you got from Walmart! We are talking about something that cost over 100K, a product which many spend a big portion of savings or retirement to get into!
Question: We see recalls for vehicles all the time… especially when it comes to safety!! With vehicle safety recalls there’s no time line either. Are there timeline safety recalls for RVs? Heck do RVs have recalls? In the last 20 plus years, I’ve owned two travel trailers and now a 5th wheel and none of the manufacturers have notified me of a recall… that’s kinda crazy if you ask me!!
I've been a non GD owner for year's been pretty happy. Looked at GD at the recent 2024 RV show, and we were going to trade up. After watching your videos and doing my own research, GD is out of the question. We will certainly be following your repair. I do watch the GD ambassadors and have given GD some serious thought but no longer. This is not just going to disappear and just go away. This will be a subject that is only beginning, and many would be purchasers watching this fiasco will be swayed by GD lack of caring.
We were very happy with our unit as well, even with all the small and some big problems it caused us! But a frame failing is completely unacceptable! Almost as unacceptable as blaming your customer for the failure when you know good and well you underengineered it to save on the bottom line! I think you are smart to research before buying another unit! We hear great things about Brinkley but have not seen one in person. The execs came from GD and tout themselves on having a very robust frame, so I think they knew the deceptive practices happening and jumped ship!
Remember it is not the GD it once was... just part of Winnebago. Wiñnie has had roof structure issues for several years and still has not corrected them.
We love you guys! You are one of the only people full timing we actually trust. I hope you guys get this resolved. You don't deserve this treatment. We just bought a fifth wheel. We decided not to buy GD and not a Brinkley either. Your last video came out and I started doing a lot of research. I almost got one bit I'm glad we didn't. Thank you guys
Thank you for your kind words! They truly mean a lot to us, especially when we receive comments stating that "we probably altered the email we read between GD and us". We have nothing to gain by lying about a conversation we had with GD. We are simply sharing our experience! No one deserves this treatment and it's time the manufacturers start treating customers like customers and not burdens as they do today. We are glad you found an RV that meets your expectations! We'd love to know what brand you went with, as most people are telling us we should look at Brinkley's and Alliance's. We've never seen either in person!
We are current Grand Design 2018 travel trailer owners. We are now looking to upgrade and your exact experience and situation is why we have decided NOT to buy another Grand Design. Thank you for posting your videos and advocating for owners. Hang in there best of luck.
Yeah we have a 2019 reflection and no issues with over 40,000 miles on it. I did paint all the walls and cabinets and put in real furniture not flaking junk and we will be keeping it.
You are most welcome! Good luck in your search for a new RV! Definitely do your research before making your decision as there are tons of manufacturers having these issues!
I applaud your measured response to the customer service you have received on this issue of a major structural component failure. You’re demonstrating the resolve that makes the “Don’t Mess with Texas” phrase so true. 34:54
Thank you! We thought these would be fairly common questions to the information they provided us in the previous email. Surely, no one is waiting five months for their RV to get fixed, driving it 900+ miles to Indiana and not asking questions after receiving an email estimating the cost and timeframe to get it fixed! And you're very right...Don't Mess With Texas!
I watched a video from a Brinkley rep that said they have done extensive testing on their RVs and they use that style pin box from the factory because it puts less stress on the units going down the road. Don't think your pin box is the problem.
Yes, everyone should watch our buddy over at My Bucket List Day and consider subscribing to his channel! The pin box is definitely not the problem! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=PwiVh1thgjJF-gFU
I’m so sorry you guys are going through this! Customer service with these companies is horrible! Not only are they building poor quality units they’re also providing poor customer service! I hope you get your unit fixed.
Great video I hope this go viral, a company who turns there back on there customers is pure evil!!!! I have a Grand Design Momentum, I'm now thinking of trading it in. Good luck guys, keep us updated please!!!!!
Thank you! We will certainly keep you in the loop as things progress! A company with a known design flaw that continues to place blame on its customers instead of taking ownership is absolutely disgusting! Are they waiting on someone to be seriously injured or killed? We can't understand their thought process on this issue! Their bottom line is not more important than the human lives that are at risk due to their inferior frames!
We currently have a 2022 Grand Design which we bought because everyone I knew said they were the best in the industry. Shortly after taking ownership of it, we were impressed with the unit. Everything went as expected and we were happy with it until we took it out for the second time. Things started to break, fail, fall off every time we took it out. We got a few things covered by warranty however they wouldn't cover many of the items that failed even with the extended warranty we purchased. We were going to upgrade to a 5th wheel or toy hauler after a few years and I can say that when we do, we will no longer consider ANY Grand Design product. We have walked through the Brinkley models and they are the brand we are going to buy next. I have followed your adventures for the past year or so and I wish you luck in your dealing with GD...you're going to need it.
@@jodiemeyers2635 Lippert frames themselves aren't bad in all cases. The engineers for both Lippert and GD did not properly plan for longer units and the weight it carries. Both are at fault, but Lippert does make quality parts.
I'm not putting the blame on Lippert. They build to the OEM specs, therefore they are not the ones to be held accountable. It's Grand Designs design and they are the ones who load everything onto the frames. Brinkley has their frames beefed up from Lippert and takes the responsibility for their decisions.
@@jodiemeyers2635 pretty much all the RV manufacturers use Lippert frames. They’re not the issue here. The issue is that the manufacturers order a specific rated frame strength and they normally order the lightest frame they can get away with for the weight and length of the RV they’re wanting to build.
Sorry to hear about these unfortunate events. I’m planning to sell my house this year and RV full time, G.D was #1 on my list but the lack of compassion by customer service in your situation was horrible. G.D is a subsidiary of Winnebago and i would expect better from them, reconsidering my 2024 purchase, thanks for sharing and good luck!
We expected better from GD also. The RV industry is in a sad state, as it stands. We recommend doing a lot of research on whatever manufacturers you are considering before making your purchase! Good luck and safe travels to you when you get on the road!
I have said this before and I will say it again, I think that RV Industry Association (RVIA) needs to be part of this process. We as RV owners need to engage with the RVIA on numerous RV issues. They are the organization that requires every RV to display the RVIA Association’s seal. The seal communicates manufacturers certification that it has complied with the RV standards adopted by the Association and has been subjected to regular, periodic compliance audits by inspectors, who monitor the thousands of requirements impacting electrical, plumbing, heating, fire & life safety systems and construction of RVs. In fact, the RVIA seal is supposed to be a visible indication of the manufacturers’ commitment to the industry. So, why can’t the RVIA be part of advocating for the consumers on addressing many of these RV issues? Just saying!!! Thank you for sharing.
A few observations here: buying used always means you are on your own with no factory warranty. You can buy a separate warranty, but that’s on the new owners. This is true in just about every single industry. That said, it’s also important to note that broken welds happen - not often, but they do. And it’s not isolated to Grand Design, or any other manufacturer. I’ve personally witnessed people pulling fifth wheels into areas that twist the frame significantly, and later discover a cracked or broken weld. As you might imagine, those people sell these trailers private party where buyers commonly don’t have an inspection done. A while later that cracked weld breaks, or that broken weld starts gapping and flexing the other areas of the frame. I feel bad for those buyers who are left holding the bag so to speak. All this said. If any manufacturer is seeing a lot of the exact same issue over and over again, they do have a burden to honestly documenting the issues. When these issues begin to gain the notice of the NHSTB, investigators will report and issue a recall notice to the company and obligate them to recall, and repair the issue. I do get your aggravation and venting. I would probably feel similarly. I would be upset too, but would probably go the route to going to a heavy duty welding shop and having them make the repair since it’s out of warranty.
We understand how warranties do/don't work. The RV industry is quick to tell you that your warranty doesn't cover something or that it'll be months until they can get to your warrantied items. The problem is, we don't feel the frame of a unit should be something you only fix if it is in warranty. It's the foundation of the unit. It should last a lifetime. We have an inbox full of customers from nearly every manufacturer that have experienced frame failure, so we also understand this is not just a GD issue. This is a manufacturer problem. We have filed a safety claim with the NHTSA, in an effort to get someone's attention, since the manufacturer doesn't want to accept responsibility for their engineering flaw. We definitely won't be taking it to the manufacturer or a dealership to be fixed!
You work for them! You are commenting and attempting to discredit not only our video but every viewer who agrees with us! Keep defending them cheerleaders!
We’ve been looking at upgrading our Rv to a Grand design but this problem and customer service has put a slow down on our choice for sure Thank you for the great content and the Honest Insight
We searched around for almost 2 years before settling on a Jayco in 2018. We have most of the issues you have with the wallpaper and trim in the master. We also have the common crack in the siding just below the master slide. We dont even want to pull it anymore for fear of loosing more in value. Im enjoying your videos so far. Not happy for you in your situation but enjoying the content. Keep up the fight for the rest of us!
It’s because Thor bought out many of the companies that had very good reputations like Jayco and Tiffin. Since they bought them out a few years ago it’s all junk and horrible customer service. They want you just to go away.
I know this is so scary for you. My husband and I have bought two GD travel trailers in the last 3 years. Now we are second guessing our decision. If they would do this to someone like you guys, we don’t stand a chance. We wish the best for you and your family and will continue watch your adventures.
Scary, indeed! And it makes us sad to know that if they will do this to us, they have already done this to someone else and will continue doing this to others! It's one of the reasons we chose to use our platform to bring light to the situation! We appreciate your support and pray you never have to deal with this!
Sorry that you guys are having a terrible time getting this resolved. Would be great if an independent company/ fabricator to you on to document a fix. Awesome shirts by the way! What if you remove the copyright picture and replace it with a cartoon like picture of Alecia bending a piece of the frame? Good luck on your journey.
We hope to find someone willing to let us film the process (or someone with their own channel who would like to feature the fix on their channel)! That's a great idea about the image on our shirt! Maybe we will see what our designer can do! Thank you for your well wishes, as well!
All I hear from GD emails is, " Bring us a class action suit". Best of luck be safe. So frustrating. Guess we will be staying away from GD. Any communication with Lippert?
We originally contacted Lippert after speaking to GD, and they confirmed we were out of warranty. We asked if they would share the welding procedure with us so that if we found a Texas shop to do the work, they could reference it. Unfortunately, they opted not to share that with us.
Wow, I feel for you. We don’t have a GD, but we do have a 2022 Keystone 5er. I check for cracks and signs of stress all the time. Scares me to death that it could happen. I hope this turns out good for you! GREAT video!
Thank you! We are in the process of looking for our full time RV. At least I know Grand Design will NOT be in the running! I hope you are able to get it resolved soon.
We hope you are able to find something that is safe and meets your needs! We hear great things about Brinkley's frames but haven't seen them for ourselves yet! Geoff over at My Bucket List Day just published a video talking to one of their reps! Here's a link to that video and we hope you'll consider subscribing to his channel! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=E94KIdqnUCDlZdI2
I will have to say your post are very informative and keep posting on any and all outcomes. 5th wheel was an RV we had thought about before we bought our class C. Can only hope that you all get a resolution. Many RV owners have such issue with construction and other items such as generators that fail continuously. RV manufacturers need to be held accountable for the product they are putting out to the public just like automobile manufacturers.
Grand Design slammed themselves with the way they handle this issue! I bought a 2023 Grand Design Solitude 380FL. I asked about the frames and was told by Grand Design the frames have been redesigned and fixed! Why was I told that when they said that the frames have had no issues.
I hope they’re right and that the frame has been actually fixed. Only time will tell. Please keep us informed if you have the same frame flex issues in the near future. Grand Design can’t be trusted. They will lie and cheat their customers for a quick profit.
We agree! Many customers from other manufacturers have emailed us their experience with frame flex and it appears as if GD is handling it the absolute worst for it's customers. We also wonder why you were told that! It seems as if they just admitted liability for their faulty frames in previous years' units! We pray their word is true regarding your RV's frame, though!
Interesting. We just came from an RV show and asked the salesperson about frame flex. He said I don’t know but the Grand Design rep is here, I can get him. Now I am seeing this video and better understand the treatment we got. Best of luck to you.
Kevin, you are so right about having welders in Texas that can fix your frame and make it better than new. We were looking at a Grand Design trailer but after all the videos about problems with their trailers that I am now looking at other brands. Good luck to you and your family.
Great video guys. Good job. It’s not just GD but they seem to have the biggest chassis problem. In October, I bought a top of the range heartland Bighorn. It took three months for camping world to fix all the problems on this new unit ( using my warranty!) I took delivery last week, driving it for 30 miles home and parked it. Three days later, we had some heavy rain and the next day I went to look at my new purchase. The bedroom and the basement were completely flooded out plus water in other parts of the unit. Heartland denied the warranty claim and said that the broken parts letting the water in was due to lack of maintenance by me.!! Great way to start RV ownership! Good luck to you both, there’s world class welders behind every rock in Texas, don’t go to a stealership!
Oh my goodness, we hate to hear you were treated so horribly! When did it become okay to completely turn your back on your customers? Good luck to you, too! We certainly won't be going to a stealership or manufacturer to have our frame fixed!
You’d think they could make a frame these days that wouldn’t flex, but all Lippert frames seem to flex at some point. Our RV has had it and it’s Dutchmen. One issue you will have is your hitch, Lippert won’t generally warranty a frame if you use a Gen Y hitch, even though it has nothing to do with the frame issues. They just want you to use their brands only to make them more money. Keep after them to make it right!
It’s not Lippert frames, it’s the engineer specs that Grand Design gives them to build the frames. Lippert is more than capable of building, a robust frame. They only go by the specs that the RV manufacturer gives them.
@@larrysherriflosi2499 try inspecting one of their frames, you’ll find most of the welds are terrible, especially on critical points. They are thrown together as fast as possible. Both Lippert and the RV manufactures should be doing better, your correct, but it’s all about the bottom dollar.
In our opinion, the manufacturers keep increasing length, but have to stay under the 20K GVWR, so they are choosing frames that weigh less, in order to decrease overall weight. You cannot skimp on the foundation of the unit and expect it to perform, which I guess they already know, which is why they put such a laughable warranty on the frames.
My 2021 399TH is in the dealer right now actually being torn down to go through the repair process. The flex was insane on it. I was fortunate enough to submit the warranty claim before the warranty expired. So far they have been good about resolving the matter. I'll keep you posted on the results.
We are sorry to hear that you, too, are experiencing this nightmare! We are glad to hear you were able to submit a warranty claim before your warranty expired and pray that the problems are permanently fixed! Please do keep us posted!
Obnoxious how, exactly? Kevin simply called them to inquire about what steps we needed to take to determine if our frame was failing. We were met with opposition every step of the way. Was it annoying, yes. But I don't feel we were obnoxious in any way.
Great video guys! I hope this works out for you in the end. Companies should not be treating customers this way or getting away with poor quality issues on such an expensive piece of equipment. Can’t wait to see how the fix. Keep us posted!
Thank you! We hope it works out, too and that major changes happen within the industry! This isn't just about us! There are so many people who have stories equal to or worse than ours! We will keep you posted as things unfold!
My heart goes out to you and your family in the trials you are having to go through to successfully repair your RV. Upon viewing not only your videos but others I have found on my own regarding “Frame Failure “ I am wondering if you are or would consider obtaining a permanent location at one of the beautiful lakes you have filmed in Texas? With your awesome talents for making repairs and improvements I can envision what you could come up with for an amazing (I dislike that word but cannot think of a better one) vacation property. I am confident it would be something marketable for people to enjoy to provide them the RV experience. If I was in your situation I think without a guarantee of reasonable and permanent frame repair, I would “Park It”. Then I would research other RV manufacturers without fame failures or even design your own RV. Good luck on the route you decide, I know you will make the best decision for your precious family. Love your videos!
Thank you so much for your heartfelt concern! We absolutely could find a permanent spot to park the RV on, but we didn't get into the fulltime RV lifestyle to stay in one place. We wanted to travel and experience the USA while our children are still young! I do think renting the RV out to those looking for a vacation rental is a great idea, should we decide to stop traveling! We are still deciding what we will do next, as we have a lot of things to consider!
We currently own a grand design product, and i'm totally blown away on how they are treating this issue. Clearly they have an engineering issue and are trying to dodge being held responsible at all costs. Time to change brands!
We are blown away, as well! When safety of human lives is concerned, you can't just bury your head in the sand and hope the issue goes away! Unfortunately, it is not just a GD issue. It appears to be industry wide.
Sorry to hear about your problems. You and your family are an inspiration to RVers and myself. I was considering trading in to a Grand Design, but will rethink that decision now. Hope your problem gets fixed and you’re back on the road again soon.
Looking to buy an RV and Grand Design was top of the list. After your customer experience we have decided we do not want to deal with them. Good luck. Could be a class action coming.
@@KylesRVAre you deaf, blind or just ignorant? They documented every step of their process to deal with this issue and only seemed to get kicked in the face! Kevin's reaction is what most of us normal guys would have done. I am in the market for trip axle toyhauler and after seeing G.D.'s reaction to the "design flaw" and Kev/Alicia's effort to gain some resolution has sealed the deal for me. Why would anyone ever subject themselves to this support or lack thereof from G.D.? 🤡
You keep saying they bought it send hand and apparently nobody should buy a used one because the backbone of the trailer does not last or is not expected to last more than 5 yrs. I just came home from the Tampa show and spent a lot of time with grand design but now not sure if the frame (backbone) has a short life expectancy.@@KylesRV
Just keep a very close eye on your unit, as we are receiving so many stories from viewers with all brands who have had issues! It looks to be an industry wide issue, that is not brand specific!
I am curious/hopeful you find an independent shop to work on your RV and allow filming to share with everyone this RV manufacturer wide problem! Lippert frames are used in all most all RV's (like Kevin said even the higher priced RV's), so it is a VERY large problem that needs addressing. We also have a Momentum that we gave up on Grand Design fixing things years ago! It is horrible when they will not stand behind their product (it is their product if they put it in their RV's!!!!)... I look forward to seeing your resolution!
We hope to find an independent shop to work with as well! We don't want to fix it without filming the process, as we think it's important to show just how in-depth a fix like this is. We hope that by using our voice to shed light on these issues, the manufacturers' will start making the changes they should have made years ago. We have a video saying that if you get into RV'ing expecting the manufacturer/dealer to do right by you, you are setting yourself up for failure, because after you sign on the dotted line, they forget about you. Some buyers are taken care of pretty well, that is, until the warranty expires!
Keep us updated. You guys are doing the whole RV community a service & while my wife & I aren't full-time, we plan to in just a few months. Our prayers go with you all. May God be with you during these tough times & we hope he sends a great lawyer your way.
We will certainly keep you updated in future videos! We wish you and your wife luck as you venture into fulltime living! We appreciate your prayers as well!
My neighbors at Falcon Lake State Park told me about their Grand Design 5th wheel frame issues. They don’t dare tow it anymore. Their solution was to buy an old travel trailer to head south for the winter and leave the 5th wheel stationary up north. I’m sure glad I didn’t drink the Grand Design cool aid. I hope you guys get your frame fixed and can continue enjoying RVing.
Thanks for the video. We are in the market for an RV (first timers) and wanting to do full time living. We will cross this manufacturer off our list. Terrible how these manufacturers are pumping out crap and selling for top dollar. Hopefully more people take the time to come forward on social media to call them out! I wasn’t even going to comment but I believe every voice helps.
You're welcome! Good luck in your search! It seems most manufacturers are more concerned with making a sale on a cheapened down product than earning a customer for life! We appreciate the comment and think the more exposure this topic gets, the more it will force the desperately needed change within the industry!
There is no way to know how big frame failure is. We had a house failure. The builder required us to scrub our social media and we have a gag order in place to buy back the faulty home. It GD has settled with anyone, you will not know about it. Sending prayers.
I had to sign a non disclosure when my brand new refrigerator had a water valve leak & damage my custom refrigerator cabinet before they would agree to pay for it.
It is appalling to me that GD would hold repair "hostage" until the owner agrees to remain silent about the problem. It is definitely time for court action if manufacturers are hiding the problem and refusing to repair at their cost.
You need to contact the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) this is a potential safety issue! I watch other channels and other brands with lippert frames are having the same issue. The RV community should be reporting this issue to NHTSA.
I can't love this comment more. ❤️ Exactly what and Who should be involved. It is definitely a dangerous and possibly a deadly scenario for GD to ask owners if such an issue to travel hundreds of miles down highways with a rig having a potential catastrophic failure.
Love your channel and family and content especially this one.
If I was you guys I would lawyer up and get all the RV manufactures and suppliers to start backing their products. There is more evidence out there with the same situation that you are experiencing.
Pray for you and family and wish you all the best of luck.
Thank you! We honestly weren't sure where to turn, but many viewers have recommended the NHTSA, so we will be looking into that!
@@PavingNewPathsNHTSA is responsible for forcing companies into recalls when it is proven to be a safety issue.
www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index
YOU GUYS ROCK!!! Hopefully a law firm will be able to gather up other owners with frame failures and present a class action suit against GD!
I will continue to pray that all good things come your way for your family❤️😊🙏
Thank you!
Skip that classaction. Lawyers get all the money and you get a $50 coupon for your next purchase
@@jamesdennehey1383And they only go after Companies with millions of dollars.
Tell them to get bent.
My wife and I went to the Nashville RV show this weekend. We had decided to go with Grand Design. Everyone has been telling us they were the leaders of the pack. Seeing a lot of your videos helped sway our decision to Grand Design. I'm so glad I saw this video last night. I just showed it to my wife, and we agreed to cancel our meeting on Wednesday with our salesperson. Not buying a GD now.
You might consider something not on the Lippert frame. I believe this might also have something to do with frame.
We, too, are thankful you saw this video before you decided on a manufacturer. Even if they've made major changes to the frames of their current units, it doesn't undo the fact that there are thousands and thousands of unsafe units on the road just waiting to claim someone's life! The care about the sale, not the customer, it seems. Our buddy over at My Bucket List Day posted a video with the Brinkley rep from the Tampa Super Show. It seems they are building a much more robust frame. Their owners left GD when Winnebago took over. It is our thought that they understood the storm that would soon be brewing at GD in regard to cost savings measures being taken! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=2cBbJTqfog779ebE
Find an RV that isn’t on a Lippert frame.
I highly recommend a trailer with NXG BAL frame instead of anything with a Lippert frame. NXG Are bolted frames and much more durable. That’s what we had on our Winnebago Micro Minnie.
@@punisher2704 Perhaps you could recommend a way to ensure you won't get one because they supply multiple lines out there🤔
You go guys!!! I hope this goes stratospheric viral for you! Shoddy workmanship needs to be brought to light!!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you! We agree! It's time for customers to use their voice to demand better! When price cuts start affecting safety, companies have gone too far.
Kevin, my wife and I were at a local RV show in MI last weekend. The new Brinkley toy hauler is delivered with the same hitch you have on your rig. I asked the salesman, who was the manufacturer of the frame on that rig and he said lippert! When I asked him about frame flex, he acted like he had never heard of it or frames breaking. The industry is keeping this a secret.
Was his nose growing when he said he never heard of it? Pathetic he could look you in the eye and flat out lie.
the fact is, its not a Lippert problem. One, Lippert builds the frame to the manufacture specs. 2, its the wall frame that sits on the Lippert frame the is broken. Its literally the wall that GD built. Brinkley and a couple others dont worry about it because they build their wall frames properly. GD cheeped out to save on weight. So Brinkley, East to West and River Stone, don't care what pin box you use. Brinkley honestly has not heard of it, because they dont have a problem nor will they. Just like E2W, which to date, has not had a single issue either. GD cut cost on material, and it is now causing the issue.
@@cw3394 “it’s not a Lippert problem”. 😂😂😂😂. If it were only Grand Design, I would agree. Frames are cracking for many manufacturers. It appears crappy steel and shoddy welding may be the cause, not design.
@@ryanryan6207 Im telling you, its no the lippert frame, its the aluminum frame in the wall. Most brands use the same design and spces as GD, there are few that have their own in house structural engineers, and came up with their own design. Elkhart is very small and everyone in the RV business knows each other, they trade employees like the NFL. Look at the management of GD and Keystone, since the main 5 left and started Brinkley. Guarantee you the wall frames are the same in VanLeigh, Montana, GD, and several others. I have not heard nor seen an actual Lippert frame crack, I have seen them bend, but only on a GD toy hauler. But again the frame and frame thickness is is built to GD specs, not Lippert.
@@cw3394 look around the internet and you’ll find many pictures of cracked frames and many broken welds. You must be connected with Lippert.
All these people complaining about frame failure...imagine how many people are experiencing this who aren't on social media.
I wish I could like this video a million times.
I'm so sorry you are going through all of this and I hope you create a movement to force Grand Design to do right by their customers.
Thank you for putting a spotlight on the truth!!
That is the scary part! If there are this many online, imagine those that haven't yet discovered they are experiencing it yet, or those that simply do not go online to see the trend. We wish you could like this video a million times, too! Sharing it and getting the word out is what will be most helpful for the industry to get the wakeup call it so desperately needs! We appreciate your support!
@@PavingNewPaths Why would the RV makers scrimp on their frames . Well could it be that the powers that be , the Global Zionist NWO bunch plans to end Diesel and Gas ( Global Warming) knows that RV will quickly become a thing of the past and warranties with them. So get the MONEY and dump the customer . After all they will not buy another anyway. 15 minute cities will be the norm then. So the Powers that be, the Globalist NWO powers and big money does not plan to do anything. They in fact started cutting corners about the las 8 years and quality went to hell. So there is your answer about your warranty.
We had been looking at 5th wheels, mainly for the spaciousness. At the beginning GD was tops on our list. As an engineer, something didn't look right on any of the brands. I followed most of the brand on social media and one thing became clear, most of the issues (across brands) occurred with the rigs over 30 ft or so. The failure on the larger units starts to make sense when you consider the size/weight increases that are on frames that use the same frame/axle/wheels/springs as smaller rigs, for example using 2 axles rated at 7K each on a trailer that, in most cases, exceed 14K lbs. That works only if the trailer never moves, however under normal conditions the suspension is seeing 2-3X that load due to wind, potholes, etc., that's why we see posts complaining about broken axles/springs/blown tires on a daily basis. It's likely this is what also causes the frame to flex and ultimately fail. I determined there's two types of larger fifth wheel trailers - those that have major failure and those that will. We ended purchasing a class A. i like they are built on a real truck frame and are required to meet federal specifications, unlike the flimsy 5th wheel units.
@STLtoTPA or going forward, Lippert does the smart thing and over-builds their frames above and beyond what the OEMs want and tell the OEMs to take the overbuilt frame or leave it. Same with axles and suspension components.
I agree. I know folks with non- toy hauler GD and none have issues. It’s usually the largest rigs like Momentum that have problems. ALL trailers have frames that flex or else they would snap apart. How much flex and where is the difference and also whether the flex cracks welds.
I don't think either companies have top knotch engineers on staff
When we were looking at 5th wheels, we brought up the issue with axle ratings versus the gross weight of the unit. We were told they deduct the pin weight to determine the axle specs. Like everyone else, the manufacturers will stretch a nickel as far as they can.
Perhaps the manufacturers should employ you for your engineering skills! You obviously know more than those currently engineering the frames. I think you were smart to purchase a Class A. The fact that they have to answer to federal speculations makes all the difference in cutting corners or not. It's time for the RV industry to answer to those same agencies.
Boy did I dodge a bullet. 2 years ago we went out to buy our first brand new RV and I was focused on getting a Grand Design. Because of a lot of things, we chose another manufacturer and now after hearing horror stories of the Schwintec Slides and Frame Flex (Frame Flex, Frame Flex - just got 3 strikes) I'm so glad we avoided Grand Design.
LMAO! You buy a Luxe, a New Horizon, an airstream? If not you’re rolling on the same frame.
What did you buy?
We sincerely hope that your rig never gives you this problem. Just keep a very close eye on it, as the majority of all RV frames are built by Lippert.
We also dodged a bullet. I wanted a Grand Design also, but because they did not have it in stock and I came across another brand totally be accident . We fell in love with it and we still have no issues with it.
The other brands are most likely on Lippert Frames however they are not on frames that were spec’s and approved by Grand Design.
Grand Design said: "You bought a used unit that is nearly 5 years old!" Sounds like they were actually saying: "We thought everyone knew that our upper 5 or even 6 figure units are built as cheaply as possible. We do not expect our pieces of garbage to last more than a couple years!"
I'm not even sure what you're trying to convey in this comment, but thanks for commenting!
@@PavingNewPathsThey we’re supporting you saying it seems like they don’t expect their RV’s to last more than a few years.
You need to contact the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. They push for recalls when customers report the same issues, or issues shared by the same products.
We will certainly be exploring this as an option!
www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index
Don't hold your breath they will do anything even if there were injuries, but I would file a complaint anyway for others to find.
We have the pin box that came brand new with the 2022 Grand Design 398M and we only use ours a couple times a year. It has less than 11K miles. We are having frame problems. Very glad to see you making videos like this. There are many of us having frame problems!!
We are so sorry to hear that you are having problems with your frame, like so many others. It's laughable that they want us to believe this is only happening to a select few users.
Barb & I ordered our shirts this morning. The RV industry is about to get a wake up call, not just Grand Disaster. I am sure you two are up to the task! My hat is off to both of you for keeping a good attitude, telling the truth without exaggeration, and the loyalty you show to your subscribers. We have benefited from your “how to” videos, and enjoyed your incredibly positive content. Remember, you have friends! Please keep us all updated and let us know how we can help!
Thank you for ordering our shirts! We hope they serve as a needed piece to the puzzle of waking up the industry! It took a few days to process the email and decide how we could film it without having our emotions take over, so we are glad that showed through the video. It's important that information such as this is shared in a non-biased and non-emotional way, so that viewers can gather the facts and make informed decisions based on the facts they have been presented with. We're glad to hear our videos have provided you with helpful and enjoyable content! We appreciate your offer to help and for looking out for us! ;)
It’s definitely a manufacturer problem. Manufacturers order the frames from the frame company (mostly lippert) and Lippert will build them to the specs the manufacturer requests. Usually, those specs that are requested by the manufacturer are at the bare minimum to support what the manufacturer intends to build on the frame, just to save on cost.
After buying a bumper pull GD rv, I started looking into the frames because of videos like this. After some research I found a video (sorry, lost where it was on UA-cam) that discussed a conversation with Lippert frame division. Long story short - the frames are requested for xyz specs and when the quote is giving to ANY trailer manufacturer (they make most frames for most brands) a lot of the quotes are returned with the problem of cutting costs to the min of what the frame would carry on perfectly smooth roads and conditions that do not exist on the planet Earth. Yes lippert made the frames but they did not overload it…the trailer manufactures did. So check with Lippert to see what they might recommend. And by the way, what led me down that rabbit hole to find that info was rv trailers having leaf spring mounts rip off the frames while going down the road. Lippert added an extra box frame sections between the frames and the spring perches to fix this issue and thankfully, ours has this already.
I wouldn't give Lippert a free pass here though. They still own the engineering and build of the frame. They have the moral responsibility to tell the manufacturer of the RV a solid NO if not to the correct standards.
There needs to be
A RECALL! Report it !
You are correct!
@@mattwarner6599 does lippert really know though? The manufacturer gives them specs. They meet them. They don't know if it is going on some super heavy or super light Fiver
I'm not saying they shouldn't be asking GD what's up with all the frame issues, but I still think the problem lies with the RV manufacturer
Brilliant video! No story from us, we're not even on social media anymore. Comments getting turned off are a tell. Your approach to the problem is going to be one to follow. Thanks for sharing your story as it impacts so many. Your points nailed it. So sorry you and your family are going through this no so small problem. We love the shirts! Looking forward to following your next steps.
Thank you for your support! We appreciate it!
Hey you guys are incredible. Taking on the stressful situations that you graciously shared with us with the integrity of the highest level is admireable. I really enjoy your informative videos and hope the best for ya.
I absolutely love your attitude. You two are a force to be reckoned with.!! Once again, you have talked us all another lesson. That you can push back that you can stick up for yourself and that it’s OK to do that. A lot of people aren’t good at that. This is just one more way you are giving our viewers and future RVers Confidence. It’s unfortunate you had to do it this way.
Thank you! It is very important that we stick up for not only ourselves, but the thousands of people in our shoes and any future customers looking to buy an RV! We all have a voice, and if we come together to use it, maybe we will be the change that the industry so desperately needs! We certainly didn't want to do it this way, but they have left us with no choice at this point!
Thank you for putting in the hard work for all of us!!! @@PavingNewPaths
Man, what a mess. This is the sort of thing that will simply destroy a company (being in complete denial of an obvious problem). Sorry you guys are going through this.
Frankly anyone looking at a Grand Design right now is absolutely insane until they legitimately address this issue.
Bingo
Yes, taking the "head in sand approach" probably isn't a sustainable business model to follow!
Wow! I was at an RV show yesterday and looking at a Grand Design. After watching your informative video, that you supplied a running narrative between your correspondence back and forth with the manufacturer, has made my mind up to take my money to a different manufacturer. This is why these video posts are so important. The rv manufacturers, and not just Grand Design, need to stand behind the customer as well as their products...after the sale. Frame flex? Equals poor construction, poor oversight in the production line and The Worst customer service experience for a faithful customer.
I hope that the Fifth Wheel manufacturer that I go with, and it will not be GD, upholds any warranty/manufacturing claims that I may experience after the sale, uphold their responsibilities to the purchaser/owner. I'm sorry for your troubles and grateful for your share.
Thank you.
Please research whatever manufacturer you decide to purchase from! Our inbox is full of customers from nearly every manufacturer that have experienced frame failure. It seems to be an industry problem that is not specific to GD. Good luck in your decision!
A big problem is Chinese steel I've restored 69 year old campers whose frames are still square and solid but
Today's cheap crappy china made products just can't hold a little ght to American made products from metals to components but under Democrats it all about destroying American product and paying their communist friends for garbage communist people have no self worth or pride so why would their work have it
You guys are 100% right this is the best video you’ve ever put out in my opinion and yes, grand design needs to stand behind their products. I already knew about this flame flex broken frame problem when we purchased our new Riverstone and that’s the reason I didn’t buy a grand design, my kids purchased one a few years ago and had the same problem with there’s. This has been going on for a long time and they choose not to do anything about it. I am so glad you put this video out there. You guys did an amazing job!! you know your shit and you know your unit.
Thank you! We are sorry to hear your kids experienced this nightmare! We are astonished at GD's approach to bury their head in the sand and not acknowledge that they are the cause of this issue. It is our hope that no one else is taken advantage of in the way we, and many other customers, have been by GD!
@@PavingNewPaths well I hope you find someone too help you with the repairs so your able to get back on the road.
Kevin, y’all keep up the fight. We purchased a brand new Solitude in 2019 for $80k, not chump change for East Texas folks. We experienced the same frame flex problems beginning from the 150 mile trip from the dealer to our home. After less than 1000 miles of travel, the unit was literally coming apart, almost identical to the problems you are experiencing. Grand Design warranty procedures required us to carry it back to the dealership and yes there was a wait time of several months. This was our fourth fifth wheel and our last. We sold it for a huge loss after less than a year of ownership. The towable RV industry as a whole should be completely ashamed at the way they are producing their units. Unfortunately, I feel the only way something will change the industry is when one of these units causes a major accident and a law firm such as Goudarzi and Young gets involved.
Northwoods builds their own frames
www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index
Industry is a complete joke and a scam
It’s crazy to me that our government will make sure cars are safe but they couldn’t care less about RV’s/campers.
We will keep up the fight, as this is a huge safety risk for anyone owning these under engineered units! We have so many stories from Solitude owners in our inbox who also experienced frame failure. It's disgusting and sad that a company can get away with this, and we are sorry to hear you lived this nightmare. The RV industry definitely needs some government oversight, since they cannot be trusted to do the right thing and keep their customers and others on America's highways safe. We can't say we would ever purchase another unit as the industry stands, should it come to that. We pray it doesn't take a catastrophic event taking place before major changes are made in the industry.
Hey Kevin, I have a 2006 5th wheel RV and was going to upgrade to a Grand Design Toy hauler! But with all the problems with Frame Flex(Broken Frames) I'm thinking about keeping what I have with no problems, I told quite a few people that was also looking to upgrade....Keep up the good work!!
Of you don't have any major problems with your 2006, you might be better off keeping it, as the industry is in a sad state currently! Let it fix itself before you upgrade, if possible!
I so appreciate the honesty that you guys display in your life and videos ❤
You're very welcome! We always try to be our authentic selves!
@PavingNewPaths well, We are your people and love you guy's for that.♥️
Aside from this issue, I already loved your videos and format, now i love it even more! Very sorry about your problem and hope you can get some sort of "satisfactory" resolution. We need you all back on the road recording your "Adventures" for the rest of us!
Thank you so much for your kind words. We are hopeful to find a resolution soon!
Great video!!! They are called Recreational Vehicles - other vehicles do not fall apart going down the road like our 5th wheels did. Slides, jacks, broken welds,etc. We opted to stop RVing. Our brand new 4 Season RVs never held up very well. They were very expensive units (to purchase & repair) so we made a lifestyle change away from RVing.
I have no doubt you will get this issue properly repaired & help all the other RVers out there.
Thanks for presenting the real situation!!!!!
Thank you! Wait until our next video I break down what all I have spent in Maintenance and repairs in just 3 years of fulltime travel!
Dang I was literally getting ready to pull the trigger on a momentum.. not gonna lie, kinda changes things! Thanks for the video y’all!
We are glad this video reached you before you made your purchase! Most frames are built by Lippert, so be very thorough in your search for a unit! Our buddy from My Bucket List Day just interviewed a Brinkley rep at the Tampa show, and it seems they have built a solid unit on a solid frame. We have not seen it in person but think you should check it out! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=PwiVh1thgjJF-gFU
We had a weld break on our axle and contacted Lippert directly after NO help from manufacturer or warranties we had. They were extremely helpful and overnighted parts then once we submitted our receipts they reimbursed us for the entire cost of the repair.
We spoke with lippert they told us we are out of warranty and there was nothing they could do for us!
We cancelled the purchase of our RV due to so many warranty issues. We told the dealer we just do not want to be part of the nightmare. At our age it is not a risk we are willing to take.
Yes, you can start the recall process. I did so with my 2010 Kawasaki Voyager motorcycle. When slowing down with the clutch pulled in the rpm's would drop down to zero and the engine would turn off. Press the starter button and the bike would restart. It didn't always stall but stalling once is too much. Dealer looked at it twice and said they couldn't duplicate the problem so I called Kawasaki and was told I need to learn how to ride a motorcycle :/ I had been riding for about twenty years, I think I know what I'm doing. I found other owners with the same problem.
So I called the NHTSA and filed a complaint. Then I went to motorcycle forums and asked everyone with the same problem to call and file a complaint. Eventually enough people called. Kawasaki issued a recall to have the ECU replaced.
I had complained several times to Kawasaki and was told I was the only person experiencing this problem which was a blatant lie. Other owners had called with the same complaint.
Call the NHTSA and start the process.
That's great to know! You'd think the manufacturers would be recalling the units themselves before there is a catastrophic loss! We filed our claim with the NHTSA and will be updating everyone on that in an upcoming video! We had no idea the NHTSA existed prior to reading these comments, so we appreciate you sharing that information!
We bought a new Alliance 42v13 in August and got 7 weeks of camping in before the ohio winter shut us down. You and your channel are an inspiration, trustworthy, and transparent my lady and I can't thank you enough for your channel for info and entertainment. We'll be in Texas at COTA in April, if we see you on the road I'll break out the smoker and thank you properly! I hope the resolution to your problem is smooth, best of luck!!!!
Congrats on your Alliance purchase! Of all the RV's that have had frame failure from customers sharing their experience in our inbox, Alliance and Brinkley have the least (or none) than all the other manufacturers! We are glad to hear you enjoy our channel and we'd love to take you up on some smoked meat if our paths cross! Safe travels to you!
What about Jayco? Heard frame issues with those as well?
I’m looking at a Alliance.
It’s the same in Australia, totally unregulated industry full of nightmares. It so wrong they did this to you, thank you for warning people. Safe travels.
Scary to think such horrible building practices can still be happening in major industries!
If GD were to take a proactive approach, it would mean they were fully aware of the flex issues and therefore become liable for all flex issues. It could be time for insurance to total it out and find another brand. Keep after it and thanks for taking us along for the journey. Oh yea, I'm loving the new shirts.
I think they are fully aware of the issue, but are definitely being reactive to this, so as to not accept liability! We are considering all options at this point and hope to come to a resolution soon! We're glad to hear you like the shirts!
Sorry to hear about your trailer. Your videos have offered us to carefully inspect 2:37 and repair our S-Class and Ford drw. We are part timers and have been aware of all the issues with traveling on the road. Something good will come your way, because you have offer the rv community so much. Stay strong and hang in there. My wife and I look forward to your videos.
Thank you for the support, this issue is way bigger than us, the entire industry needs to stop taking advantage of the customer who buys into the lifestyle only to be left hanging when they need the manufacture the most!
I’m so glad I saw this video. I almost purchased one of these but noticed some trim falling off inside and other issues outside of a brand new toy hauler at the dealership. Thank you for the enlightenment and preventing me from making a huge mistake in purchasing one of these units. I now begin my research into frame manufacturers.
They are all built the same and the frames are breaking on just about every brand but the ultra high end fifth wheels!
@@PavingNewPaths I just saw another video and they mention Brinkley frames being the only ones making them how they should be able to support the weight of the unit. They also said 7 out of 10 frames break. His unit was broken in 17 different spots and the entire front part being held on by only a few support beams.
@@Fast1twoIt's true brinkley frames are being built different!
@@PavingNewPaths , the manufacturer issues a specification and Lippert builds them to the specification. For instance, Alliance specifies gussets in certain areas on the frame and "V-welds" in the spring hangers -- LIppert builds them as specified by the manufacturer.
ua-cam.com/video/mMKhkSXgnmI/v-deo.html
Wow Kevin and Alecia, I am really sorry to hear GD has treated you this way. Shame on GD for they way they are handling this "not so isolated" incident. As I mentioned in your last video, unfortunately companies like that are only out for their shareholders and customers will take it in the rear. I am so grateful that we recently sold our GD travel trailer and bought our fifth wheel from a different manufacturer. We had seriously considered a Solitude S-Class, but between the frame issues and how they plumb their RV's I am grateful we went a different direction. I wonder if you all should cut your losses and get something different instead of trying to repair it? I'll be heading over to your page to purchase a couple of shirts. Hopefully that will help in some small way.
Thank you for your support! We are weighing all options at this point before we move forward with a decision! We are glad you chose a different manufacturer, too! Hopefully, your new rig and the manufacturer are treating you nicely!
If that frame totally fails with you going down the highway, that’s a safety issue. There should be a recall on these. Shame on GD. I’d find any and as many others with the same issue and form a class action lawsuit on GD. Making them recall and fixing every last one for free!!! Good luck I hope you can get yours fixed.
Yes, it's a huge safety issue! Yes, we are upset that our RV is broken, but we are more concerned that no one seems to see the huge safety concern taking place!
Thank you for this video. Customer service can make or break a company. My wife and I are in the market for a new fifth wheel. We were heavily going towards grand design now we will go elsewhere.
You're very welcome! We agree that how you handle a situation tells a lot about who you are as a company. Even something as bad as frame failure could be a positive experience for the customer, if it were handled with great care and empathy. In our email and conversations with them, we never asked for them to cover the cost. We simply wanted to know the next steps and not have to pry information from them. Their lack of empathy and care about the matter was quite shocking.
Just don’t buy any fifth wheels that are made the same , they are all junk , travel trailer to , get a tent!
It’s not just GD I have a 2021 keystone Alpine 3850rd with the same issues. But I’m lucky I’m still under warranty and when I called keystone they were more than helpful on what I needed to do. They told me that affinity RV repair elkhart has done many lippert frame repairs. I made and appointment with them and hope my outcome is better than yours. Thanks for keeping all us in the loop and love your videos.
You're right! Many of the manufacturers have had frame failures! We are glad to hear you are still under warranty and have a manufacturer that is willing to work with you! We've heard nothing but great things about Affinity RV, so you'll probably be in great hands with them! Good luck to you!
In my experience fixing our frame did it myself it wasn't too bad to fix. Took some time and ingenuity but did it in our driveway. I agree about not towing it i towed ours for around 300 miles after i discovered ours was broken in order to get home. Ours needed a bunch of gussets after it was pulled back into place.
Good for you for fixing it yourself 🎉
Do you have any pics that you can share?
@6ddalton sorry i do not i was mad at the time basically got the same run around as Kevin and Alicia. It was a few years ago and it was on a keystone cougar we switched to jayco brand because I will never buy another keystone product because of the way they handled it.
That's great that you fixed yours yourself! Towing ours the last 500 miles to get it to our home base was the most stressful 500 miles we've ever driven.
@@rob9675 are you aware that Keystone and Jayco are both owned by Thor Industries, along with Airstream, Entegra, and multiple others. They also own at least a dozen suppliers. There's about three main players in the industry now and it doesn't bode well for the consumer.
I have seen a few videos about frame flex. There all the larger 5th wheels. So, there has to be an issue. I'm glad you all are calling them out. Keep at it!!!!
Thanks!
I've been following the frame flex or "broken frame" issues on YT for about a year now, and that is how I found your channel. I am now subscribed. What I thought was interesting is that two weeks ago, I went to a local RV show here in Washington State, and the primary brand they were selling were from Grand Design. One of the dealer reps approached me and was bragging about this being the best brand on the market, and that he wouldn't feel comfortable selling other brands to a customer. I then mentioned that I've heard quite a bit about the Lippert frames on these 5th-wheels causing a lot of grief for customers. He had no response, and then changed the subject. That told me a lot. I wish you well with resolving these inexcusable defects by GD., and I'll keep checking in on your progress.
Thank you for subscribing to our channel! We are glad to have you as part of our community! The employee's complete denial about the subject almost seems orchestrated. Possibly like lawyers have asked them to admit nothing and dodge the questions completely. It definitely tells you a lot, when a basic UA-cam search shows that your broken frame is not the isolated event they so badly want you to believe it is. Thank you for your support and we'll have another video being released soon regarding this issue!
Alicia, (spelled wrong I’m sure)… girl, you nailed it regarding them not giving a crap about the lives around you.
Thanks! It's Alecia, but everyone spells it differently, so I don't mind! They would care if it was their family riding beside a rig with a compromised frame!
So glad you guys are calling them out. Its time!!!
Thanks!
Affinity RV Group in Goshen, IN are experts in this arena. Our 16 year old rig is currently there for frame repairs. Other YT’ers have used them and their google reviews are A+.
So far, our experience has been very professional and the quote we have is significantly less than what you were quoted by GD. Good luck ☘️
100 pct you are right , but there shouldn’t be this biggest problem that it is , and until the rv industry starts standing you to that scum bag Jason lippert this will keep happening
Thank you for the recommendation! We have received a lot of testimonials from this company! If we do not find someone local, we will reach out!
I watched your previous video just the other day and was pleasantly surprised that this one came out. First of all I think you two have handled this whole ‘situation’ perfectly and professionally. Reaching out to any ‘repair shop’ that feels they can fix ( repair) your unit was the best decision considering the situation. 👍
ua-cam.com/video/IP_u2JR51_Y/v-deo.htmlsi=K2kdYjZdfpck_bBC
You must work for them as hard as you are working to defend them!
@@KylesRV Have you read the overwhelming number of positive comments and people that have experienced the same thing! The only viewer I have insulted was you!
Boy oh boy this definitely struck a nerve on Facebook with the GD crowd. I tried to share and was shut down immediately. But then people were posting we are just Karen's making trouble. I own a 2016 Momentum 327M and she's been very good to me. The people commenting haven't taken the time to even watch the video. It's an industry problem but obviously GD doesn't want bad press. Thanks again for being honest and documenting everything so we can see the truth. This by far is the best video on frame failure and so was your previous post. They are scared of you and want to bury this quickly. God bless you for speaking truths
So we've been told! You, and many others, have been shut down in an attempt to shut you up about the beloved GD brand! Brand loyalty is very important, and we used to think GD had great units! But when something like this happens to you, and you are exposed to just how many people share your same experience, it makes you rethink your loyalty to a brand or industry!
I was at the florida supershow yesterday walking the 397th and when I asked the rep (claimed to be a youtuber himself) about the frame-flex issue he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about. He also mentioned the warranty was fully transferable (product warranty and not buyer warranty). The 397tHS was our primary consideration for full time rv living but after that, I think we have decided to look at other options instead.
Maybe part of their customer service training is teaching them how to have no recollection of conversations about "frame flex" that they have been privy to! It's really sad at this point that they take no ownership in the problem they have created! From the mouths of Grand Design and Lippert, the frames are only in warranty for one year from the date the owner takes ownership. I'm sorry, but if you only have a one-year confidence in the frame of your unit, you are doing something wrong! We've heard great things about the Brinkley frames, although we haven't seen them in person. You can check out the UA-cam channel, My Bucket Day List, as he interviewed a Brinkley rep at the show recently! Consider subscribing if you find his information helpful! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=MQlJKQHAN8HpNS05
It has changed our minds about Grand design I really loved the 397 but would not buy one now.
You can't sue rv industry,their lobbyist have made sure of that in every state and federal level. People that purchase new/used RVs and warranties from dealers,etc. are just simply stupid; an RV is not backed up like most any other consumer product,been that way for all time and eternity.
THANK YOU!!! I was very close to buying a 398M and now will be looking at competitors
Hearing all the issues of Rv’s and campers. How they all are finding ways to not warranty anything even on new ones. Almost has me tempted to buy a van or ulity trailer and build it camper use myself
Thank you for spreading the real truth! We have a reflection and met people in SD this summer who we’re headed to have their frame fixed! They had to leave it a month and rent a place to live. He is an rv inspector and they were not going to allow him in for repairs! They were spit of pocket for a place to live since they are full time ! Thanks for making the video for those having this same problem. From a Texan to another Texan!
You are most welcome, fellow Texan! It's crazy that they don't allow people to come see the damage and repairs. What are they hiding? Especially for an RV inspector, that could use that knowledge to help fellow RV'ers who may be experiencing these issues.
Thank you for the video. I was going back and forth between Grand Design and Alliance. I will now be purchasing an Alliance RV. Being a fellow Texan, I have little respect for companies that don't treat customers with courtesy and respect. It seems they have forgotten a basic premise. "Good business is always good business." Treat your customers right and they will always come back. Love the channel. Hang in there. I'll be praying for ya'll!
We have heard great things about Alliance and Brinkley! They seem to be the leaders in the industry in building solid and safe units! It doesn't take much to offer customers empathy and understanding, even if you can't do anything for them with the problem they are incurring. It's definitely a lost art in business these days! Thank you for the prayers, we really appreciate it!
Alliance is great! Customer service #1. We looked at GD but found to many quality issues. Island moving bad trim. Bad springs, etc
It doesn’t stop. I’m on my third fifth wheel. They all crack if you travel full time .Just don’t get suckered into believing a different brand is any better .
We have a BAL frame on our rig. Is that frame terrible also?
We have a GD and have been aware of the flex frame. We travel light and part time. We plan to improve our suspension. The summo springs is another issue for rvers. It's how heavy these trailers travel down the roads. Rough or smooth. And for how long.
Hallelujah to that observation and comment. I just watched where DRV Luxury Suites LCI frames are failing: (ua-cam.com/video/OQ0kbkyKzt4/v-deo.html) and Montana- Keystone LCI frames are failing (ua-cam.com/video/8WMbnuXGdrk/v-deo.html).
@@JandARVReviews-BAL on the frame of our new 5th wheel. From what I can tell it's built really well. I've watched a lot of these videos and I have inspected my frame and haven't seen any of these issues. I especially like how beefy the leaf spring hangers are compared to Lippert frames.
@@F450FTW That’s awesome to know! I check everything out before we head to a campground. We currently have a KZ product and haven’t had any major issues. Thank you so much for the comment!
I'm SCREAMING with excitement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love the shirt, and love the video, love the PUBLIC PUSH BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are about to be sued big time and they know it. Grand Deception knows who I am because I have no chill. I will continue making comments on Matt, and JDs and Josh's videos because it's catching new buyers attention and people are asking what Frame Flex is. I make comments on Facebook, reddit, tiktok, Instagram, too. I'm not stopping until they recall all of these units and make this right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE KNOWINGLY SENDING OUT DEATH TRAPS. They better hope I don't find a death or injury related to this because that will put this suit on a whole other level, and they know it.
I hope you recorded these calls. The OKC VA taught me to record everything because humans SUCK!!!!!!
Thank you for your support! It's time the customers start using their voice to hold these manufacturers accountable!
Well this made me nervous about the whole idea. Thank you for your openness
You're welcome! Just do a ton of research on whatever manufacturer you are considering, as this isn't just a GD issue! Our inbox is full of viewers who have all had frame failure from nearly every manufacturer on the market!
@@PavingNewPaths i don't plan to move mine often but if moving it seems to be the main issue it kinda defeats the purpose of the RV to me. Any advice on model/brand would be helpful for a complete noob.
As I was watching, also knowing about the other videos I have watched about the "Frame Failures" I was thinking that that soon we should be seeing a Class Action Suit about this issue! Then I started reading the comments, and I see that i'm not the only one that thinks this way!! Stay safe and warm there! You all are on my nightly prayer list!!
We really appreciate your support and prayers. Maybe they will be hit with a Class Action Lawsuit if they don't feel a voluntary recall is necessary. Hopefully it's not filed after they've killed someone's family member due to the frame they designed that failed.
@@PavingNewPaths I too hope it doesn't come to that, but some companies have a hard head so to speak, so it may take a serious incident to "slap them up the side of there head" which no one is killed or serious injured.
I don’t own a GD camper… your video is very enlightening. Glad to see your fact reporting and please continue the updates. Btw, I was considering a GD… NOT NOW!!! 30:44
@@KylesRV I hear ya, but you’d think GD would still standby their product!!!
Cheer away!
No I would not but we aren't talking about a TV you got from Walmart! We are talking about something that cost over 100K, a product which many spend a big portion of savings or retirement to get into!
@@KylesRV Absolutely not… however a “Toy Hauler” isn’t a tv!!
Question: We see recalls for vehicles all the time… especially when it comes to safety!! With vehicle safety recalls there’s no time line either. Are there timeline safety recalls for RVs? Heck do RVs have recalls? In the last 20 plus years, I’ve owned two travel trailers and now a 5th wheel and none of the manufacturers have notified me of a recall… that’s kinda crazy if you ask me!!
I've been a non GD owner for year's been pretty happy. Looked at GD at the recent 2024 RV show, and we were going to trade up. After watching your videos and doing my own research, GD is out of the question. We will certainly be following your repair.
I do watch the GD ambassadors and have given GD some serious thought but no longer. This is not just going to disappear and just go away. This will be a subject that is only beginning, and many would be purchasers watching this fiasco will be swayed by GD lack of caring.
We were very happy with our unit as well, even with all the small and some big problems it caused us! But a frame failing is completely unacceptable! Almost as unacceptable as blaming your customer for the failure when you know good and well you underengineered it to save on the bottom line! I think you are smart to research before buying another unit! We hear great things about Brinkley but have not seen one in person. The execs came from GD and tout themselves on having a very robust frame, so I think they knew the deceptive practices happening and jumped ship!
Remember it is not the GD it once was... just part of Winnebago. Wiñnie has had roof structure issues for several years and still has not corrected them.
We love you guys! You are one of the only people full timing we actually trust. I hope you guys get this resolved. You don't deserve this treatment. We just bought a fifth wheel. We decided not to buy GD and not a Brinkley either. Your last video came out and I started doing a lot of research. I almost got one bit I'm glad we didn't. Thank you guys
We were looking at the Brinkley's, what made you decide against them as well?
Thank you for your kind words! They truly mean a lot to us, especially when we receive comments stating that "we probably altered the email we read between GD and us". We have nothing to gain by lying about a conversation we had with GD. We are simply sharing our experience! No one deserves this treatment and it's time the manufacturers start treating customers like customers and not burdens as they do today. We are glad you found an RV that meets your expectations! We'd love to know what brand you went with, as most people are telling us we should look at Brinkley's and Alliance's. We've never seen either in person!
We are current Grand Design 2018 travel trailer owners. We are now looking to upgrade and your exact experience and situation is why we have decided NOT to buy another Grand Design. Thank you for posting your videos and advocating for owners. Hang in there best of luck.
Yeah we have a 2019 reflection and no issues with over 40,000 miles on it. I did paint all the walls and cabinets and put in real furniture not flaking junk and we will be keeping it.
This is happening on a lot of brands unfortunately. I would not buy any fifth wheel with a Lippert frame until this issue is resolved.
You are most welcome! Good luck in your search for a new RV! Definitely do your research before making your decision as there are tons of manufacturers having these issues!
I applaud your measured response to the customer service you have received on this issue of a major structural component failure. You’re demonstrating the resolve that makes the “Don’t Mess with Texas” phrase so true. 34:54
Thank you! We thought these would be fairly common questions to the information they provided us in the previous email. Surely, no one is waiting five months for their RV to get fixed, driving it 900+ miles to Indiana and not asking questions after receiving an email estimating the cost and timeframe to get it fixed! And you're very right...Don't Mess With Texas!
I watched a video from a Brinkley rep that said they have done extensive testing on their RVs and they use that style pin box from the factory because it puts less stress on the units going down the road. Don't think your pin box is the problem.
Yes, everyone should watch our buddy over at My Bucket List Day and consider subscribing to his channel! The pin box is definitely not the problem! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=PwiVh1thgjJF-gFU
I’m so sorry you guys are going through this! Customer service with these companies is horrible! Not only are they building poor quality units they’re also providing poor customer service! I hope you get your unit fixed.
Thank you! Yes, the customer service leaves a lot to be desired! Especially when the customer is not in the wrong!
Great video I hope this go viral, a company who turns there back on there customers is pure evil!!!! I have a Grand Design Momentum, I'm now thinking of trading it in. Good luck guys, keep us updated please!!!!!
Thank you! We will certainly keep you in the loop as things progress! A company with a known design flaw that continues to place blame on its customers instead of taking ownership is absolutely disgusting! Are they waiting on someone to be seriously injured or killed? We can't understand their thought process on this issue! Their bottom line is not more important than the human lives that are at risk due to their inferior frames!
We currently have a 2022 Grand Design which we bought because everyone I knew said they were the best in the industry. Shortly after taking ownership of it, we were impressed with the unit. Everything went as expected and we were happy with it until we took it out for the second time. Things started to break, fail, fall off every time we took it out. We got a few things covered by warranty however they wouldn't cover many of the items that failed even with the extended warranty we purchased. We were going to upgrade to a 5th wheel or toy hauler after a few years and I can say that when we do, we will no longer consider ANY Grand Design product. We have walked through the Brinkley models and they are the brand we are going to buy next. I have followed your adventures for the past year or so and I wish you luck in your dealing with GD...you're going to need it.
Just FYI, a poster above stated that Brinkley uses Lippert frames.
@@jodiemeyers2635 Lippert frames themselves aren't bad in all cases. The engineers for both Lippert and GD did not properly plan for longer units and the weight it carries. Both are at fault, but Lippert does make quality parts.
I'm not putting the blame on Lippert. They build to the OEM specs, therefore they are not the ones to be held accountable. It's Grand Designs design and they are the ones who load everything onto the frames.
Brinkley has their frames beefed up from Lippert and takes the responsibility for their decisions.
@@jodiemeyers2635 pretty much all the RV manufacturers use Lippert frames. They’re not the issue here. The issue is that the manufacturers order a specific rated frame strength and they normally order the lightest frame they can get away with for the weight and length of the RV they’re wanting to build.
All of the manufacturers like grand designs are douche bags. They care nothing about the customers they have had past and present, bunch of phoneys.
Sorry to hear about these unfortunate events. I’m planning to sell my house this year and RV full time, G.D was #1 on my list but the lack of compassion by customer service in your situation was horrible. G.D is a subsidiary of Winnebago and i would expect better from them, reconsidering my 2024 purchase, thanks for sharing and good luck!
We expected better from GD also. The RV industry is in a sad state, as it stands. We recommend doing a lot of research on whatever manufacturers you are considering before making your purchase! Good luck and safe travels to you when you get on the road!
Thanks for bringing attention to this issue!!🎉 Good Luck in your journey!❤
Thank you!
I have said this before and I will say it again, I think that RV Industry Association (RVIA) needs to be part of this process. We as RV owners need to engage with the RVIA on numerous RV issues. They are the organization that requires every RV to display the RVIA Association’s seal. The seal communicates manufacturers certification that it has complied with the RV standards adopted by the Association and has been subjected to regular, periodic compliance audits by inspectors, who monitor the thousands of requirements impacting electrical, plumbing, heating, fire & life safety systems and construction of RVs. In fact, the RVIA seal is supposed to be a visible indication of the manufacturers’ commitment to the industry. So, why can’t the RVIA be part of advocating for the consumers on addressing many of these RV issues? Just saying!!! Thank you for sharing.
Very good thought! We will research this further and see if we can submit a claim or suggestion to them!
A few observations here: buying used always means you are on your own with no factory warranty. You can buy a separate warranty, but that’s on the new owners. This is true in just about every single industry.
That said, it’s also important to note that broken welds happen - not often, but they do. And it’s not isolated to Grand Design, or any other manufacturer. I’ve personally witnessed people pulling fifth wheels into areas that twist the frame significantly, and later discover a cracked or broken weld.
As you might imagine, those people sell these trailers private party where buyers commonly don’t have an inspection done. A while later that cracked weld breaks, or that broken weld starts gapping and flexing the other areas of the frame. I feel bad for those buyers who are left holding the bag so to speak.
All this said. If any manufacturer is seeing a lot of the exact same issue over and over again, they do have a burden to honestly documenting the issues. When these issues begin to gain the notice of the NHSTB, investigators will report and issue a recall notice to the company and obligate them to recall, and repair the issue.
I do get your aggravation and venting. I would probably feel similarly. I would be upset too, but would probably go the route to going to a heavy duty welding shop and having them make the repair since it’s out of warranty.
We understand how warranties do/don't work. The RV industry is quick to tell you that your warranty doesn't cover something or that it'll be months until they can get to your warrantied items. The problem is, we don't feel the frame of a unit should be something you only fix if it is in warranty. It's the foundation of the unit. It should last a lifetime. We have an inbox full of customers from nearly every manufacturer that have experienced frame failure, so we also understand this is not just a GD issue. This is a manufacturer problem. We have filed a safety claim with the NHTSA, in an effort to get someone's attention, since the manufacturer doesn't want to accept responsibility for their engineering flaw. We definitely won't be taking it to the manufacturer or a dealership to be fixed!
Congratulations on being the voice in the wilderness, stay strong and we are praying for the “Best” solution to come forward.
Thank you so much!
Sucks man. It really pisses me off that they can freely rip people off
@@KylesRV Wow Turkey Tom you seem like a total scumbag
The way grand design acts i don't think they would do warranty. It's a break light warranty.😂
I see you guys have met TomTLs5 Grand Designs biggest cheerleader!
You work for them! You are commenting and attempting to discredit not only our video but every viewer who agrees with us! Keep defending them cheerleaders!
@@KylesRV The lengths you are going through to defend this company is amazing! Do you get paid by the post or by the hour?
We’ve been looking at upgrading our Rv to a Grand design but this problem and customer service has put a slow down on our choice for sure Thank you for the great content and the Honest Insight
You're very welcome! Do lots and lots of research on whatever manufacturers you are considering! The industry is quite scary at this time!
We searched around for almost 2 years before settling on a Jayco in 2018. We have most of the issues you have with the wallpaper and trim in the master. We also have the common crack in the siding just below the master slide. We dont even want to pull it anymore for fear of loosing more in value.
Im enjoying your videos so far. Not happy for you in your situation but enjoying the content. Keep up the fight for the rest of us!
So sorry to hear of your troubles!
It’s because Thor bought out many of the companies that had very good reputations like Jayco and Tiffin. Since they bought them out a few years ago it’s all junk and horrible customer service. They want you just to go away.
I know this is so scary for you. My husband and I have bought two GD travel trailers in the last 3 years. Now we are second guessing our decision. If they would do this to someone like you guys, we don’t stand a chance. We wish the best for you and your family and will continue watch your adventures.
Scary, indeed! And it makes us sad to know that if they will do this to us, they have already done this to someone else and will continue doing this to others! It's one of the reasons we chose to use our platform to bring light to the situation! We appreciate your support and pray you never have to deal with this!
Sorry that you guys are having a terrible time getting this resolved. Would be great if an independent company/ fabricator to you on to document a fix.
Awesome shirts by the way! What if you remove the copyright picture and replace it with a cartoon like picture of Alecia bending a piece of the frame?
Good luck on your journey.
We hope to find someone willing to let us film the process (or someone with their own channel who would like to feature the fix on their channel)! That's a great idea about the image on our shirt! Maybe we will see what our designer can do! Thank you for your well wishes, as well!
All I hear from GD emails is, " Bring us a class action suit". Best of luck be safe. So frustrating. Guess we will be staying away from GD. Any communication with Lippert?
We originally contacted Lippert after speaking to GD, and they confirmed we were out of warranty. We asked if they would share the welding procedure with us so that if we found a Texas shop to do the work, they could reference it. Unfortunately, they opted not to share that with us.
Wow, I feel for you. We don’t have a GD, but we do have a 2022 Keystone 5er. I check for cracks and signs of stress all the time. Scares me to death that it could happen. I hope this turns out good for you! GREAT video!
Thank you! We are glad to hear that your Keystone hasn't given you any frame problems and that you never have to deal with this nightmare!
Thank you! We are in the process of looking for our full time RV. At least I know Grand Design will NOT be in the running! I hope you are able to get it resolved soon.
We hope you are able to find something that is safe and meets your needs! We hear great things about Brinkley's frames but haven't seen them for ourselves yet! Geoff over at My Bucket List Day just published a video talking to one of their reps! Here's a link to that video and we hope you'll consider subscribing to his channel! ua-cam.com/video/EpBcOdG5gSk/v-deo.htmlsi=E94KIdqnUCDlZdI2
I will have to say your post are very informative and keep posting on any and all outcomes.
5th wheel was an RV we had thought about before we bought our class C.
Can only hope that you all get a resolution.
Many RV owners have such issue with construction and other items such as generators that fail continuously.
RV manufacturers need to be held accountable for the product they are putting out to the public just like automobile manufacturers.
Grand Design slammed themselves with the way they handle this issue! I bought a 2023 Grand Design Solitude 380FL. I asked about the frames and was told by Grand Design the frames have been redesigned and fixed! Why was I told that when they said that the frames have had no issues.
I hope they’re right and that the frame has been actually fixed. Only time will tell. Please keep us informed if you have the same frame flex issues in the near future. Grand Design can’t be trusted. They will lie and cheat their customers for a quick profit.
We agree! Many customers from other manufacturers have emailed us their experience with frame flex and it appears as if GD is handling it the absolute worst for it's customers. We also wonder why you were told that! It seems as if they just admitted liability for their faulty frames in previous years' units! We pray their word is true regarding your RV's frame, though!
I think it will cost them greatly in the end.
Thank you Kevin,I was saving for a Grand Design Solitude or a Keystone Montana and I’m going with a Keystone.
You're very welcome! Please do your research, as we have so many emails and comments from owners from all manufacturers that have had this problem!
Interesting. We just came from an RV show and asked the salesperson about frame flex. He said I don’t know but the Grand Design rep is here, I can get him. Now I am seeing this video and better understand the treatment we got. Best of luck to you.
It's an isolated incident, they will deflect at all cost!
Kevin, you are so right about having welders in Texas that can fix your frame and make it better than new. We were looking at a Grand Design trailer but after all the videos about problems with their trailers that I am now looking at other brands. Good luck to you and your family.
Good luck in your search and thank you for your well wishes!
The love of your life nailed it…I don’t give a feces that I’m the second owner, I am still your customer.
Exactly!
U helped me make my mind up after watching ur video. Will be looking at other toy haulers. Thx guys!!
That's probably a smart decision for the time being!
Great video guys. Good job.
It’s not just GD but they seem to have the biggest chassis problem.
In October, I bought a top of the range heartland Bighorn. It took three months for camping world to fix all the problems on this new unit ( using my warranty!) I took delivery last week, driving it for 30 miles home and parked it. Three days later, we had some heavy rain and the next day I went to look at my new purchase. The bedroom and the basement were completely flooded out plus water in other parts of the unit. Heartland denied the warranty claim and said that the broken parts letting the water in was due to lack of maintenance by me.!! Great way to start RV ownership!
Good luck to you both, there’s world class welders behind every rock in Texas, don’t go to a stealership!
Wow😮
Oh my goodness, we hate to hear you were treated so horribly! When did it become okay to completely turn your back on your customers? Good luck to you, too! We certainly won't be going to a stealership or manufacturer to have our frame fixed!
Sorry you guys are going through this! So scary! 😢
Thanks, yall!
Thank you for being so objective with your story. Everything you asked is a fair question.
You're welcome! We tried really hard to keep our emotions on the matter out of it and only present the situation as we are experiencing it!
You’d think they could make a frame these days that wouldn’t flex, but all Lippert frames seem to flex at some point. Our RV has had it and it’s Dutchmen. One issue you will have is your hitch, Lippert won’t generally warranty a frame if you use a Gen Y hitch, even though it has nothing to do with the frame issues. They just want you to use their brands only to make them more money. Keep after them to make it right!
It’s not Lippert frames, it’s the engineer specs that Grand Design gives them to build the frames. Lippert is more than capable of building, a robust frame. They only go by the specs that the RV manufacturer gives them.
@@larrysherriflosi2499 try inspecting one of their frames, you’ll find most of the welds are terrible, especially on critical points. They are thrown together as fast as possible. Both Lippert and the RV manufactures should be doing better, your correct, but it’s all about the bottom dollar.
In our opinion, the manufacturers keep increasing length, but have to stay under the 20K GVWR, so they are choosing frames that weigh less, in order to decrease overall weight. You cannot skimp on the foundation of the unit and expect it to perform, which I guess they already know, which is why they put such a laughable warranty on the frames.
My 2021 399TH is in the dealer right now actually being torn down to go through the repair process. The flex was insane on it. I was fortunate enough to submit the warranty claim before the warranty expired. So far they have been good about resolving the matter. I'll keep you posted on the results.
Keep me posted on your 399th. We have one too and have seen more flex.
@@allensadventures6175 I originally measured about 3/4” inch movement, when the dealer measured the got about 1/2”. Anything over 1/4” is too much.
We are sorry to hear that you, too, are experiencing this nightmare! We are glad to hear you were able to submit a warranty claim before your warranty expired and pray that the problems are permanently fixed! Please do keep us posted!
Guessing you were not obnoxious about the problem, unlike Kevin.
Obnoxious how, exactly? Kevin simply called them to inquire about what steps we needed to take to determine if our frame was failing. We were met with opposition every step of the way. Was it annoying, yes. But I don't feel we were obnoxious in any way.
Great video guys! I hope this works out for you in the end. Companies should not be treating customers this way or getting away with poor quality issues on such an expensive piece of equipment. Can’t wait to see how the fix. Keep us posted!
Thank you! We hope it works out, too and that major changes happen within the industry! This isn't just about us! There are so many people who have stories equal to or worse than ours! We will keep you posted as things unfold!
My heart goes out to you and your family in the trials you are having to go through to successfully repair your RV. Upon viewing not only your videos but others I have found on my own regarding “Frame Failure “ I am wondering if you are or would consider obtaining a permanent location at one of the beautiful lakes you have filmed in Texas? With your awesome talents for making repairs and improvements I can envision what you could come up with for an amazing (I dislike that word but cannot think of a better one) vacation property. I am confident it would be something marketable for people to enjoy to provide them the RV experience. If I was in your situation I think without a guarantee of reasonable and permanent frame repair, I would “Park It”. Then I would research other RV manufacturers without fame failures or even design your own RV. Good luck on the route you decide, I know you will make the best decision for your precious family. Love your videos!
Thank you so much for your heartfelt concern! We absolutely could find a permanent spot to park the RV on, but we didn't get into the fulltime RV lifestyle to stay in one place. We wanted to travel and experience the USA while our children are still young! I do think renting the RV out to those looking for a vacation rental is a great idea, should we decide to stop traveling! We are still deciding what we will do next, as we have a lot of things to consider!
We currently own a grand design product, and i'm totally blown away on how they are treating this issue. Clearly they have an engineering issue and are trying to dodge being held responsible at all costs. Time to change brands!
We are blown away, as well! When safety of human lives is concerned, you can't just bury your head in the sand and hope the issue goes away! Unfortunately, it is not just a GD issue. It appears to be industry wide.
Sorry to hear about your problems. You and your family are an inspiration to RVers and myself. I was considering trading in to a Grand Design, but will rethink that decision now. Hope your problem gets fixed and you’re back on the road again soon.
Thank you! We appreciate it and hope you find a viable option as a trade-in! Our advice is to research, research, research!
Looking to buy an RV and Grand Design was top of the list. After your customer experience we have decided we do not want to deal with them. Good luck. Could be a class action coming.
@@KylesRVAre you deaf, blind or just ignorant? They documented every step of their process to deal with this issue and only seemed to get kicked in the face! Kevin's reaction is what most of us normal guys would have done. I am in the market for trip axle toyhauler and after seeing G.D.'s reaction to the "design flaw" and Kev/Alicia's effort to gain some resolution has sealed the deal for me. Why would anyone ever subject themselves to this support or lack thereof from G.D.? 🤡
Thanks Steve! He is GD biggest cheerleader! He is defending them in all the comments today!
You keep saying they bought it send hand and apparently nobody should buy a used one because the backbone of the trailer does not last or is not expected to last more than 5 yrs. I just came home from the Tampa show and spent a lot of time with grand design but now not sure if the frame (backbone) has a short life expectancy.@@KylesRV
When buying my my toy hauler, two brands I was going between which was the Grand Design and Voltage. Glad I didn't get a Momentum.
Just keep a very close eye on your unit, as we are receiving so many stories from viewers with all brands who have had issues! It looks to be an industry wide issue, that is not brand specific!
My oh my , what a long difficult ride has been for you !! Great video and it covers a lot !
Thank you!
Thank you so much for the update and we are sorry for your bad experience with the GD so called family
You're welcome and we appreciate your kindness and concern as well!
I am curious/hopeful you find an independent shop to work on your RV and allow filming to share with everyone this RV manufacturer wide problem! Lippert frames are used in all most all RV's (like Kevin said even the higher priced RV's), so it is a VERY large problem that needs addressing. We also have a Momentum that we gave up on Grand Design fixing things years ago! It is horrible when they will not stand behind their product (it is their product if they put it in their RV's!!!!)... I look forward to seeing your resolution!
We hope to find an independent shop to work with as well! We don't want to fix it without filming the process, as we think it's important to show just how in-depth a fix like this is. We hope that by using our voice to shed light on these issues, the manufacturers' will start making the changes they should have made years ago. We have a video saying that if you get into RV'ing expecting the manufacturer/dealer to do right by you, you are setting yourself up for failure, because after you sign on the dotted line, they forget about you. Some buyers are taken care of pretty well, that is, until the warranty expires!
Keep us updated. You guys are doing the whole RV community a service & while my wife & I aren't full-time, we plan to in just a few months. Our prayers go with you all. May God be with you during these tough times & we hope he sends a great lawyer your way.
We will certainly keep you updated in future videos! We wish you and your wife luck as you venture into fulltime living! We appreciate your prayers as well!
My neighbors at Falcon Lake State Park told me about their Grand Design 5th wheel frame issues. They don’t dare tow it anymore. Their solution was to buy an old travel trailer to head south for the winter and leave the 5th wheel stationary up north. I’m sure glad I didn’t drink the Grand Design cool aid. I hope you guys get your frame fixed and can continue enjoying RVing.
Say hi to Bob and Virginia for us. From Frank and Jodie. We'll be there in a week.
@@frankthill6163
They left yesterday morning. I think they are coming back.
@@PhilKleis ok, thanks, We'll see them when they get back then.
@@frankthill6163 Tell Bob and Virginia thanks for being so kind and offering advice on RVing after their 10 years of full timing.
@@PhilKleis I sure will.
Glad you are making these informative videos, thanks. Im watching mine closely.
You're welcome! We pray you never have to experience this!
Thanks for the video. We are in the market for an RV (first timers) and wanting to do full time living. We will cross this manufacturer off our list. Terrible how these manufacturers are pumping out crap and selling for top dollar. Hopefully more people take the time to come forward on social media to call them out!
I wasn’t even going to comment but I believe every voice helps.
You're welcome! Good luck in your search! It seems most manufacturers are more concerned with making a sale on a cheapened down product than earning a customer for life! We appreciate the comment and think the more exposure this topic gets, the more it will force the desperately needed change within the industry!
There is no way to know how big frame failure is. We had a house failure. The builder required us to scrub our social media and we have a gag order in place to buy back the faulty home. It GD has settled with anyone, you will not know about it. Sending prayers.
Except we are aware of many former and current owners under an NDA with Grand Design over issues such as this and much larger ones!
I had to sign a non disclosure when my brand new refrigerator had a water valve leak & damage my custom refrigerator cabinet before they would agree to pay for it.
There are so many that had to take hush agreement to get things fixed!
It is appalling to me that GD would hold repair "hostage" until the owner agrees to remain silent about the problem. It is definitely time for court action if manufacturers are hiding the problem and refusing to repair at their cost.
Definitely anyone having something like this resolved through the manufacturer has been required to sign a NDA.