Why look for meaning in colors in character design?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2023
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- Фільми й анімація
My philosophy is this: not all art details are intentional, but all art details have an effect on interpretation, that's what critique and high school English is, explaining what a text makes you feel and why
In my opinion though, if something is drawn, designed, or colored a certain way by a thinking person, the person usually has a reason for it, whether it be deep, simple, or even unconcious. The only way I can think of that an art detail can be unintentional would be if it's literally a mistake.
Yeah. Like, even IRL the color choices can affect the vibe of a room. Bright red is more cheerful and seductive while dark red is more dour and seductive. Bright blue is cheerful and playful dark blue is more sleepy and calm. Vibes are important.
@@nadoghost146 there's always a reason in everything a sentient being does.
It just so happens that said reason most of the times is inconsequential, without any deeper meaning in it.
@@craylik5589 That is just not true. Unless you meant inconsequential/meaningless to the universe or something. Then it's merely an obvious but irrelevant point.
@@nadoghost146 sorry, should have said most of the time is inconsequential to such a meaningful discourse, that many times the reason the author chose said colour doesn't amount to half the brain gimnastics that the interpretation takes.
Then again rereading all this thread that doesn't enter into conflict with what you said and I actually don't disagre with what you said.
I should probably go to sleep I'm quite tired. Sorry to bother you and have a great day mate ahaahaha!!
As a writer I always am very deliberate with my description of colors. When I choose a color there is always a deep meaning behind it. Except purple. When I use purple it's because that color is objectively the best.
Is Howling Armadillo's love for purple a hint to their relationship towards royalty, or is it just a factually correct opinion?
In this essay I will
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740clearly they are a filthy monarchist, get the guillotines!
Note: purple is my favorite color and I am not a monarchist xP
Purple gang
This comment tastes like purple.
Lovely to find a fellow purple supremacist 😤👌
Also to expand on the idea of 'Maybe he just likes the colour red', why does he like the colour red? He isn't real and didn't choose to like it, it's a choice the author made that can still be subject to analysis
And even if the artist/designer/etc didn’t consciously or say out loud “This character is X or likes Y because Z! Eureka!” doesn’t mean that they avoided the subconscious associations we as humans have built into colors, objects, shapes, etc. Even if they weren’t thinking actively about it, that still influenced the design process subconsciously.
You right. But the author likes the color red and it just suits their face c:
I love this point.
@@crusaddy982 and that's a valid analysis and I think that's great
like i also could assume they used red because he is a vampire and blood is red so its often associated with vampires
One of the things I was taught is to look for multiple examples to support a conclusion. If the curtains are blue AND the character is showing symptoms of depression, those two elements reinforce one another. On the other hand, if the curtains are blue, the couch is blue, the walls are blue, etc., then you're in the Eiffel 65 song.
ba ba di ba ba dy
And a blue corvette. And everything is blue for him.
And therefore it's a metaphor for depression
And himself and everybody around
Cause he ain't got nobody to listen
Funnily enough the song I'm blue doesn't mean actually have any meaning according to Eiffel 65, apparently one of the band members just thought that everyone had a color and they arbitrary chose blue for the song
The thing that always gets me about that 'the curtains were blue' example is that it's meant to be a literary example. That changes the conversation completely, because in a visual medium (well, these days when color is easy), color is an inevitable element. If you're dressing a character, you have to decide what color their shirt is, which can often just lead to an entirely arbitrary decision; maybe there's a deep meaning behind a character wearing a blue shirt in this scene, or maybe they just gave them a blue shirt because they have to wear something and blue works well enough. That's rarely true in stuff Skyen talks about since they're often discussing character designs with VERY deliberate color choices, but it's very possible that you're watching something and the designer just went 'fuck it, it's blue'.
But in literature? There's nothing saying you HAVE to say what color something is. Saying a color therefore becomes a deliberate choice, perhaps to set a mood, or build up an image that USES that visual element. While I hate Harry Potter, it's a pretty easy example to reach for here: consider the fact it deliberately uses color references to build up ready visual associations. The 'good guys' are red and orange, as evidenced by Gryffindor, the Weasleys' hair, Fawkes the phoenix; in this world, Red Means Good. And similarly, in this world Green Means Bad, being both the colors of Slytherin and the colors of most of the more 'evil' spells, like the Death Eaters' mark and the killing curse.
In a purely literary medium, the color is by nature there for a reason.
Especially so with traditionally published literature which often will have an editor wanting to cut down everything and thus the author needing to Justify why they need to keep xyz line about the characters room being blue and such. What ever makes it was likely fought by the author to Be There. That in itself gives it meaning to be interpreted, even if the meaning is as simple as 'I think this color would look nice for the visuals im building for this scene'
colours in literature can also symbolise character arcs, for example if a character starts off wearing blue because they are suffering from a form of sorrow, but by the end of the story they have healed and now wear red, the colour red can be interpreted as healing and life coming back to the character.
I would like to add, that while I also hate Harry Potter, red shades have often been linked to nobility and sometimes righteousness (is that a fitting word?? Sometimes I forget my english) while greens are often linked to jealousy, envy and dread, like the dark greens of a looming forest at night.
The Slytherin green is definitely a very rich and noble shade, but it's definitely not the lighter, warmer green that evokes wonderment and safety. If the Gryffindor reds (specifically the reds, orange doesn't draw the eye that much imo) were closer to vivid blood reds then a feeling of aggression could be present there!
Opposite of our world
Where red means danger and green means safety
This. It’s never so black and white as “Blue = Sad” or “Blue doesn’t mean shit”.
It’s all about the subjectivity of it all! Blue curtains could mean anything depending on the context or tone and it’s up to YOU to decide what it means to YOU. It’s subjective, all art is.
I don't know as much of the process of creating a character, but I can tell you this about writing. If an author includes the color of something, it is for a reason. They are trying to set the mood for a scene, or represent something of a character without saying it out loud. Unless of course, the author doesn't know exactly what is doing, and is just adding descriptions of things for the hell of it. Which is a valid way to write, but most people will find this boring to read.
@@monkeyorful Character design is a bit more nebulous on this, as while yes there are ways to use color to symbolize meanings (see Skyen's own description with Darth Vader, the black armor is _very_ much an intentional design for reasons beyond looks) there is also a facet of color theory in regards to _palettes._ So whilst yes sometimes a red scarf on a green-robed Druid could easily be a metaphor for a hidden passion or anger boiling within the otherwise stoic exterior, but it could also just as equally be because red is the definitive complimentary color to green - typically being on the polar opposite end of the color wheel.
It's a nuanced situation, but always intentional. Sometimes it's intentionally done to push a story or characterization element further, other times it's to help solidify a visual design.
@@DuskEalainAnd following on from that, the point of the video is that regardless of original intent, both takeaways are equally valid. Even if it was a known fact that the artist just picked red because it looked good, that doesn’t make the other interpretation any less worthwhile. It is always a good thing to have more to discuss about art.
@@derpymule7977 Aye, it's a nuanced situation and if you ask me the only way to have a wrong interpretation is to be narrowminded enough to insist yours is the only RIGHT interpretation.
Exactly hell with enough skill you can make it have a completely new meaning. Like whenever the character is happy and there's at least one blue thing around them when happy. in that context of the story blue is attributed to the character happiness.
This is trippy, I was literally just discussing with a friend how "the curtain is fvcking blue" meme is destroying Americans' ability to critically engage with media and how it's led to this sort of "puri-teen" judgement towards the author and skyen uploads this AS I was having that conversation 😳😅
Some art is accidental but accidents can sometimes make art mean more. One example was a scene brought up in a "Film Literature" class I took. I forgot the movie's name but it was an old black & white movie about a killer or something and there's a scene where the guy talks about his sad backstory in front of a window while it's raining outside. Now it's explained that behind the scenes that there was a problem with the water and the rain effect didn't look right, but what it did was cast these shadows over the characters face making it look like he was crying. This character was almost stone-faced explaining his tragic upbringing and the scenery was crying for him. Personally the movie didn't look like something for me but either way *that's awesome.*
Yo I gotta see that
I think that scene you're talking about is from In Cold Blood from 1967
@@XtheUnknown13 Yeah, that sounds right.
As an american, I feel like the sentiment behind "maybe the curtains are just blue" is really about how American culture has a disinterest in engaging with art beyond the surface level. It is not really about school, school just happens to be the place where most Americans are forced to read things that are more artsy and talk about them. The issue raised is not that the teacher is imposing a point of view, it is that the student feels they are being forced to think about something which is irrelevant and pretentious. My experience with English teachers is actually that they are the coolest and most chill people on the planet.
Though sometimes, it _is_ also about the teacher imposing a point of view. Like if the teacher handed out a list of themes, told us we'd have to write a 15-page paper about that theme, and that we'd need evidence not just from the book we were actually discussing, but from what a bunch of old literature professors said _East of Eden_ said.
...you know. Hypothetically.
I just hated literature analysis because I was terrible at it and the whole process made me feel miserable and stupid. And writing was and still is something that I struggle with. Partly due to disabilities and partly due to intense emotional trauma about writing. And how much I suffered in those classes. I also had a very stringent English writing regiment for pretty much my entire education. So I personally suffered in those classes. The point is interesting but sometimes an aversion to art analysis can be traced back to having just a really terrible experience with it growing up.
There's ABSOLUTELY a factor of HOW kids and teens are taught this stuff that generates resentment for it and refusal to engage with it. School in general can be so tiresome and stressful when homework and projects and tests pile on top of each other that it feels stupid to have to answer questions about "Why the curtains are blue" or "How do you think this character feels." Especially when compared to learning mid-level math and basic science. Stuff that seemed a little more applicable to daily life.
I remember an english assignment was to read a chapter of an assigned book and then summarize it. I couldn't understand what the point of that was considering I'd literally JUST read the chapter. Why did I then have to write down what happened? It was never explained to me why I had to do this, just that I had to do it or I'd get in trouble. And that made learning a horrible, stressful experience. And either it never occurred to me, or I'd been rejected for doing so before, but I never felt like I could ask "Why do I have to do this?" The way the world worked, was, "Grown ups tell me what to do, and I do that." And school did nothing but reinforce that.
I hated reading for years up until I was allowed choose what books I could read and got special exceptions when doing homework because the stress was causing me breakdowns.
TLDR: I guess where I'm going with this whole rant is that until school becomes a place where learning and exploring are the priorities over surviving or getting the bestest-highest-grades or else your future is over (even if it actually isn't), trying to make kids/people consider the deeper meanings of art is always going to feel like a fight because many of them just don't have that luxury. They're too busy treading academic water, just keeping themselves from drowning and the current system is only pulling at their ankles.
I think it's a bit more than that, actually. Western education systems seem to be specially designed to make children hate reading as much as possible.
This. As another American, there were a few instances where the teacher was clearly looking for a "right" answer to the subjective questions in English classes.
But a lot of the times, people just didn't want to engage on that level with any media. All that mattered was if they liked or disliked it, then they move on.
It's not bad if this isn't people's thing, but it's sad how the "you're overthinking and wasting time by looking for meaning behind the curtains" narrative has gone around.
Sometimes the character's sock colors are indicative of their mood.
Sometimes they're here to match the weather.
And sometimes the socks are just here to distract you from the fact they don't have a face.
While I really love all the Star Wars lore and especially the lore behind the colors of the Lightsabers, it’s extremely funny to me how the blue saber not showing up against the blue desert sky in Episode 6 and Samuel L. Jackson liking the color purple both created the entirety of modern lightsaber lore
Example: General Grievous is absolutely not a Jedi/Good Guy but he wields multiple sabers, none of which are the assigned Bad Person Color (Red)
Doylist reason: It provides visual contrast when he does all the four armed spinny maneuvers when all the sabers were different colors than if they were just red. Also, fits with his extant color scheme of White while not reading as Good Jedi but more Anti-Jedi (but Not Sith)
Watsonian reason: he hunts jedis and uses their sabers, but doesn't have a saber of his own due that he could "bleed" and make red since he is not a force user.
Just to add onto 'this seems very American', yeah in my also non American school we were taught to do media analysis the exact same way as you described
And not all schools in America are the same, mainly because charter schools are business oriented.
I would say it's not just American, where I live this problem(of teachers forcing an over the top interpretation where there isn't one) is very much real, although it all depends on the school and the teacher
In my experience going through the US public education system and through college, the classes that teach like this are the very early/lowest common denominator type classes. I was taking the AP English classes in highschool and the assignments essentially were "prove this point you're making clearly and thoroughly with the text". Then when I went to college after getting through the beginning English classes you got the same type of assignments. It just seems this criticism of understanding symbolism comes from a place that never got past the beginning English classes
It's certainly not just American as some replies have said, but it does undeniably happen a lot more frequently in American schools. I don't have the knowledge or experience to say _why_ as I never went to an American school and this is a second-hand statement, but you do see more Americans saying this line than other peoples, and I think it'd be shallow to just blame the people themselves.
Theoretically, I was also taught the "feeling/argument/support/conclusion" method, but my english teacher was very narrow minded in what interpretations he considered valid in a text. Weirdly, it had the opposite effect and made me more critical of single media interpretations out of spite because his were often racist or sexist 😬
Additionally, a lot of times colors come naturally when creating art. Per example, when you create a character, colors that emphasize their nature will arrive in your head. Not because you’re a genius of color palette and meaning, those colors simply strike a familiarity that matches the character you created.
Coming from someone who writes and draws her characters, this is accurate. For example, characters of mine with troubled backgrounds that deeply affect them usually wear black and/or gray, whether they be protagonists or antagonists. There's obviously exceptions on both ends, but it's a trend that grew more prominent in my mind as I thought about your comment.
Artists don't just do things arbitrarily. They're always making choices about they details they choose to include or leave out. Sometimes it really can be as simple as "I thought this color would be a nice accent", but often there can be a deeper reason for why it was chosen, and it can be fun to speculate about what that reason could be.
That's my personal view as well, some colors are certainly used with thought and intention, some are chosen just because the artist felt like so, but why did they feel like that? Well I think subconsciously they felt like that because I has something to do with the character/scene. If you are describing a sad, deeply depressed character you will probably not make them wear pink unless there is a good reason for it. So there was a choice, at least subconsciously.
Exactly this. When creating art, building something from nothing, every aspect of the art, every color choice in a drawing, every description in a text has to come from somewhere, with a reason. And even if that reason is just a subconscious "this feels right to me", there was still a choice involved, and that choice makes looking at it closer meaningful.
As a consumer it's easy to overlook details and still enjoy a work, thus it's easy to assume that the artist, similarly, only cares about a few major aspects of the work and the rest is there to fill in the blanks
That's pretty much the mindset I operate under as well. It makes the experience so much more rewarding if I assume the creator is making these decisions on purpose. I might not understand the purpose right away, but I have a chance to divine what it might be rather than dismissing it out of hand. I remember when Skyen did his short video on Vicar Lawrence from "Bloodborne", and so many people in the comments just kind of shrugged and said "Eh, it's just a Cleric Beast asset flip, that's all." And I wanted to grab them by the shoulders and shake them saying "Yes, but why the Cleric Beast asset specifically? What is being communicated with that choice? How did the character design change, even minutely, to make it stand out? Why are you just assuming that the designers did this without thinking about it at all?"
It differs by artist. There's an actor, and Im blanking on the name, where during an interview about his characters thoughts and how he approaches it, he cant give a straight answer because he just doesnt know. His process is unconscious and abstract, and thats something people of all creative mediums can experience. Sometimes a choice just feels right and no explanation for why can be given. On the other hand some artists are very intentional and detail driven. Ones not better than the other, its just people have different processes.
But conscious and intentional or not, we can still derive more understanding and depth from attempting to find meaning and patterns and analyze things.
As a character designer who's done work for both animation & video games: I promise you every detail of every costume you see has been designed with care by artists who try to infuse meaning into EVERYTHING. I've had assignments from Art Directors where I had to draw 12 different hair styles for a character that made sense with their personalities & goals! There are dozens of artists working for weeks on one single character design. THE CURTAIN IS RED BECAUSE IT WAS A CALCULATED CHOICE!
As an artist and character designer, I absolutely love it when people read into my characters in this way. Even when someone interprets something I didn't intend, that gives insight into what my characters are communicating. Everyone has blindspots, and I can't see how my characters come across to every type of experience. So when someone _tells_ me what they're getting from a character I designed - the videos you do are the exact type of analysis into my work that I would be entirely overjoyed with.
It's not necessary to analize art in order to enjoy it. But it's still good to remember that art doesn't simply exist but was made by someone who wanted to express something
As someone with an American education, yes, we are taught to find the “correct” interpretation of the artwork or piece of writing most of the time. This meant that as I went in to higher education I didn’t feel confident in my answers for these questions because I didn’t know if it was the “correct” answer, even if it was supposed to be *my* interpretation.
I don't mind when people don't want to see deeper meaning in art, but it does admittedly bother me when people get angrily dismissive at others for seeing that deeper meaning. It's obviously not common and doesn't represent everyone who doesn't care for deeper meaning in art, but you see it fairly often online.
A thought i had about this today is: Different people like to wear/ own different stuff.
For example: My sister hates the color pink. She always found it "girly" and preferred the darker gray and black tones on clothes from the "mens section". The colors she wears (and chooses not to wear) dont represent something deeper, but it does have some meaning because it shows to people that she doesnt like peing perceived as girly.
And i feel that can also apply to characters in stories. The red curtains dont have to mean something in the general sense of the story, but if a character chose them, then it shows they have a preference for color red and design of it. And that can tell us a lot about said character more than even they can.
I would already count that as deep. I think there is a big difference between "I wear it because I think its neat" and "I dont wear it because it informs how I am perceived in a way i am not comfortable with".
@@peschionator7873 what I was describing was one example. You can also ask a question of "Why do you think it's neat". And whether something is or isn't there, or what that is, can greatly inform you about a person.
Exactly, people say that things like the color scheme doesn't give away anything about the character, but we are always judging people by the way they are dressed 😑
I think the best example of this is Arcane.
Everything has this intentionality to it. Everything has a purpose, even the slightest detail is important.
You can read so much into it and I've seen so many different people look at details in different ways.
All of them are in one way or another valid, but we can all agree that when there is a detail present, it was chosen and deliberatly placed there.
I used to feel the same as the commenter, before I began to write.
Now I pay a lot more attention to symbolism in media.
It's "The curtain are just blue" vs "But the author chose to make them blue!".
I feel like people not involved in any creative endeavour have difficulties in recognizing that, often, there is something more than "It feels better this way".
The creator chose a certain colour for a reason, the author described the character in that way for a reason, etc.
This is obviously not a dig at those that like to simply enjoy media and art: there is something refreshing about accepting something without looking for meaning, secrets and theories everywhere.
This was just a reflection on my experience.
My problem with color theory tends to be when it's universally applied or assumed that all colors must have meaning.
Certain colors tend to evoke certain feelings, and, culturally, we learn to associate certain colors with certain concepts and tropes, but generally I tend to get frustrated when somebody presents an interpretation of what a color means to *them* rather than looking at what the color means within the story.
I had a teacher once explain how a character's pink shirt was meant to represent violence (red) mixed with a facade of purity (white), and remember thinking that the interpretation had gone off the rails.
I think the best works of fiction come up with their own internal color language. Some tropes and common conventions might be used to decide what the language is, but the overall meaning of color is taught to the audience by the world, characters, and narrative. In Avatar the Last Air Bender green means "the Earth Kingdom" besides the obvious "green equals plants" connection, they teach you to associate the colors with a certain element throughout the series until it becomes subconscious.
In the Great Gatsby, Jay Gatsby spends his time staring at a green light shining off of his romantic interests' house across the bay. What's the significance of the color green? Based on tropes, it could mean a desire for wealth, envy, hope for the future, etc. But within the story itself the narrative teaches you to associate the distinct green light with Gatsby's desire and obsession. The color green is less important than the fact that Gatsby is obsessed with it.
In League of Legends, Green is most frequently associated with Zaun (with plenty of exceptions). Generally it's leaning on the trope of bright green chemicals, but as a design, it's main purpose is that it's a distinct primary color that's not already too closely associated with another faction in the game. And it can be easily seen on the character models. Bright green does a good job of getting across the "punk" vibe of Zaun but an interpretation into the meaning of green as "the color of envy" would be forcing thematic connections IMO. Not that envy doesn't fit Zaun but that world and character design hasn't given any reason to imbue such formal, codified ideas onto their color use.
Well, about your pink shirt example, it could mean that, but there has to be more detail surrounding that.
For example, it could work if they had opposing parents/mentors/role models etc. who wore red and white, and they each represented what the teacher associated with those colors. On its own, it’s a flimsy theory, but context is everything when it comes to colors
My favorite examples of this are Guts and Griffith from Berserk.
Guts is fully enveloped in this dark armor with a menacing and brooding aura, which actually hides his vulnerable and lonely nature, and while he isn't exactly the biggest good guy and does some questionable shit, he is still at heart a righteous person.
On the other hand, Griffith is this angelic being, fully dressed in white like a shining guardian angel, which hides his true monstrous and narcissistic side, which fully emerges with his transformation to Femto; fully dark, leathery abomination, and pure evil.
If I showed people Guts at his lowest and Griffith at his brightest, and if they had no idea about Berserk, I'm betting they would be wrong in assuming who is the hero and who is the villain.
Most people would asume it's Griffith because is f**king obvious
@rommdan2716 they mean design wise, which from what I gather was muiras intention. One reason its so "obvious" now is he inspired a great deal of other mangaka to use the same trope
@@mckinneym.2743 Another good example are Akira and Ryo from Devilman, which literally inspired all those archetypes, including Berserk.
Akira as Devilman looks like a demonic, evil-coded, savage beast, yet he has the heart of a human and is a hero.
But Ryo as Satan is a beautiful, pure, shining angel, but he is in fact the embodiment of evil.
@@rommdan2716 Yes it's obvious to most people because they are familiar with Berserk; but to the general audience, white means good and black means evil.
Outsiders will see Guts and just see a psychotic sword-wielding maniac who murders children and will see Griffith as the heroic messiah.
I agree with most, but not the last part. One glance without context and you can guess that Guts is the hero and Griffith is the villain. Pretty, feminine men are usually villains because they are always associated with deception and manipulation.
He explained it so well. My brother would try and say what I learned in college about writing tropes and rhetoric was much the same as the commentor in the video. He truly believes that I "make up" an interpretation of a novel or story. When really that's not the case. Usually I just talk about specific phrases or ways the author describes something and am like, "Hey! That's a reference to this poem from Frost!" And sometimes that gives me a clue about how a character or scene is meant to be read, cause there used to be a period in time where authors wanted to hint at a character being gay, or that "something bad" was gonna happen.
And frankly, I feel you lose a little bit of the meaning of what was written if you ignore stuff like that. You can read it just fine without know what was said--but you get a much more richer understanding of what the author wants to say, without being upfront about it.
Tl;dr: I truly feel writers like to be give their readers riddles sometimes, but don't actually expect everyone to understand what they're writing about. Not every writer does this--but a fair few of them do.
i think an issue you can find your self in with this mindset is getting stuck in your own bias for interpreting the meaning. the red and blue you use as an example is perfect. if you are a person who associates red with evil, and blue with "light" more peaceful aspects, you will start seeing evil in places red is symbolizing love or seeing good were blue is showing sadness.
analyzing color is great but not when our perception and bias is what is informing the meaning instead of the art, intention or previously held in-world meanings.
Astarion's red could also be a tie to his noble status as red is often a very regal color. and yea, he's a vampire so red lol
theres even a lot of culture aspect to interpreting color. different peoples will have different meanings. in star war's red is evil but in a Japanese's tokusatsu red is the color of the main good guy and leader. its a color of strength and associated with heroes.
gotta be careful not to pigeon hole ourselves into one way of thinking and search for greater context.
tbc: that's not to say your advocating or presenting this, just a take on the matter in general.
It's why it's important to place works into their context, if you want your analysis to be serious.
I absolutely love seeing how colour symbolism changes between countries. You can come up with really interesting, subversive designs researching alternate takes on these things :D
I think you highlight a great point that color theory only really works from a the perspective of someone who knows the narrative. The Star Wars red=bad only exists because the bad guys in star wars use red. The color meanings, like anger and passion, mostly only make after the context of the narrative has already shaped the character.
That isn't to say the color doesn't impart an impression, Vader's design tells you he's pretty evil (but that's mostly the real world nazi stormtrooper inspirations), but that the impression is guided by the other elements.
I am a watercolour artist and the amount of theory involved with creating the feeling of certain moods or vibes in a painting is staggering. In artwork, the whole is more than just the sum of its parts and I have no doubt that artists using other mediums, for example digital artists in game design, use exactly the same painstaking process to convey exactly how they want a character or scene to look and feel. When you are creating something which you love and are passionate about, the details absolutely do matter.
we should also remember that, in character design, every choice was made by a human being - be that deliberatly, or just because it looked cool
either way, there is A reason behind it
it might not be as deep as we may interprit it, or it may be even deeper - noone knows exept the person who made that decision
so interpreting those choices is a fun way of engaging with author's vision and is also a way to deeper connecting with media
I always thought that the "maybe the curtains are just blue" thing is kinda boring.
That's mostly because I think this sort of analysis is fun and I get the frustration, and I do enough of "just take everything at face value" in my daily life anyway, might as well have some fun with these.
Maybe he just likes color red?
Okay, but why? Because it might look good on him? So Astarion has bit of vanity in him. He clearly likes to look good. The character analysis just writes itself if you just let it. Why he wears blues and purples too? Well... it could be just because he likes them. But those are also colors that were historically used by royals and people with lot of money because those pigments were rare to make. So he has money or whoever clothed him had lots of money to dress him up like that. Or he stole them. Unless the setting says otherwise, that is the explanation people will most likely go to.
It doesn't have to be about characters inner psyche to tell a story about the character and their design :) And well I do believe in the fact that if you don't make deliberate choices in your character design, the audience will make those choices for you and explain things that might not go well with your vision. So better be safe than sorry.
I see the Royal purple and the fancy/bloody red making sense with Astarion's personality/backstory.
But the white of his shirt, I'd say that's more of a color balance thing. Yeah, it could mean his vulnerable side. Oooor it could just be that stereotypically vampires are seen in White poet shirts.
And also, any other color would look too heavy with his already colorful outfit
@@5Demona5i think his normal armor means something, and his camp clothes are just to look sexy. Like, the open shirt with ruffles, the quarter sleeves, they don't really have any meaning more than sexy. Maybe specific design elements (ie the open shirt) could reference something, but overall they're just there to look good.
@@OneiricVortexYou're the one who needs to get out more if you think literary analysis makes someone a "waste of space."
C'mon dude, grow up.
@@OneiricVortexyou're part of the problem
One of the major reasons I enjoy your content is not the conclusion you come to during you analysis. It is very much how eloquently you present the logic of how you reached that conclusion. I feel if more people would realize that the logic proof is the interesting part of a debate, we would have more people willing to debate in general.
I love doing narrative analysis, and I think it can be interesting and meaningful even when it wasn't intended by the author. As an example, my girlfriend once wrote a story about a woman being sepparated from her loved ones, faked her death, and went on a long journey, which I interpreted as an allusion to the Odyssey. She had not intended that, but I the story still worked in that reading
I love when people have another interpretation for mine! (which is why I generally avoid being too explicit)
(Though in my case, it's more because I'm too conscious of my own influences)
This reminds me of how many people who played Fallout New Vegas's Dead Money DLC, which is overwhelmingly based on The Treasure of the Sierra Madre as based on Hotel California by the Eagles.
J.E. Sawyer, one of the head writers, mentioned that this wasn't the case for the latter but did admit the similarities people brought up fit extremely well and couldn't blame anyone for making the assumption
"Stop analysing media abd questioning design choices, just mindlessly consume what you're given"
It's very funny that they say that color choice has no meaning and then saying "Maybe the character just likes red!" when a character liking (or being oppsessed with) a certain color could tell you something important about their character, depending on that character's reasoning for their interests.
You did nail it spot on with the American teaching thing. In college the idea that everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) had a deeper meaning was harped on me over and over and over again. And it quickly became one of the most tiring things about college learning I had to put up with. So much so that I now find utterly mundane meanings behind things far more interesting and intriguing than deep 70+ page complex just for the sheer sake of complexity research essay levels of meaning.
Several things to say : first, Skyen, you have no idea how much I love hearing you analyse and talk about character and artistic choices in media and video games. As a video game student, and procrastinating author, your points on design are ALWAYS such a refreshing wind. I could just listen to you for hours and never get bored, about what's nice, what's not, how to improve things, how you simply feel about stuff. I think I'm just waiting for your each new content videos as much as any of my favorite piece of media, music, anime, or videogame. I just can't help but jump out of joy each time I get the notification that you delivered new stuff.
Second : goddamn, you just are so on point about the fact everyone can have and actually has their very own and personnal feelings about media, about how to read it, and none are wrong if you just can explain why you feel that way about it.
Third : should I understand that talking about Astarion especially in this video, that he is your favorite character in BG3 too ? I mean, of course he is popular, but yeah, he is indead 'complex character done right', I would love to hear you talking about profound videos talking about his full story and how you feel about it (also me wanting to hear you get fanboyish over your fav characters in BG3 cause that's just awesome and cute)
Is that somehow a love letter ? Uh, maybe, more like a true fan of yours expressing themselves about how much they love your content, and your voice too if I'm being honest.
And the author may not think about blue as depressing but find the feel of blue fitting for the scene by the very nature of associations.
I LOVE colour language and it’s always so interesting to me the way colour is used, from Disney’s classic villainous lime green to the way contrast and complimentary colours are used to say something about character dynamics. Colour can be an overt shorthand for personality like it’s used in Pretty Cure or a more implicit indication of how someone is feeling. And as someone who enjoys watching animated shows and movies, and writes as a hobby, I find that so beautiful.
In character design colors always serves a purpose!
Sometimes a certain color might be picked because of its possible interpretation, sometimes to complete the palette, sometimes to accentuate details, sometimes to show a character affiliation with a group, etc.
There are so many ways to use color and I doubt that a professional character artist would ever pick a color just because
I don't think it even matters if the author intended a specific interpretation, as long as it makes the work more complete/satisfying to you it's worth analysing and discussing.
I really liked the way Schnee put it (awesome channel btw): if someone makes cookies while not really noticing or caring what they put in it, but they somehow come up amazing, it's definitely worth analysing what exactly happens there that makes them so great. Even if (or because?) the cook has no idea what they did there and it was completely unintended, if you liked the cookies, you can surely learn valuable lessons about what makes good cookies and maybe even how to make them intentionally next time.
Emotions are fickle. Sometimes even the artist themselves don’t know at the time they create their art what exactly the symbolism of what they’re making overtly is, but they are still aware it has some emotional impact on them when they’re making it and thus press on with it.
Using Darth Vader as an example actually lets us see a really concrete form of color theory and presentation. There was a what-if comic a while back that asked what if Vader survived his redemption from RotJ. Anakin in that faces his crimes and sins directly, by wearing an all-white version of the Vader armor; you'll find tons of scans and art of it if you search for 'darth vader white armor'. It's the same, for lack of better term, *lines* , just the entire thing is done up in white and light grey instead of black and dark grey.
And it strikes a completely different image, such that some of the shape-language that makes Vader menacing as a villain (like his helmet and height often giving the eye-lenses a cruel glare as he stares down at you) feeling *really* off in an outfit that's trying to be used to tell a story of him being stuck having to become a better man. It's a super interesting design, and shape-language is its own whole really neat thing. (There've been a couple "hey what if Anakin didn't turn evil but still ended up a fucked up cyborg by the Imperial era" design concepts, and seeing how they each dealt with that question is *fascinating* )
But yeah the other thing I'd say is a lot of the "the curtains were blue" messiness comes from test-focused education where everything ultimately needs to cook down to this objectively designed multiple-choice-test paradigm and it's a disasterrrrr.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything said, and I'll also add that the Law of Conservation of Detail probably plays a role here, too. arguing that 'the color of the curtains doesn't matter' is an uphill battle, to me, because the author could've just as easily not told us what color they are. so it's up to us to figure out: does the author intentionally use tons of descriptive language to paint a scene so it's not important to draw specific attention to the curtains, or is it usually more sparse description to get to The Point? if it's the latter...then why might the color be significant, in this instance?
also, thank you for Pink Vader, I giggled a lot
Bro i promise you especially in such a large scale game there is no way a MAIN CHARACTER doesn't have a reason behind every aspect of their design, even if that reason seems trivial on the surface
Even when I don’t agree with your view or interpretation, I still appreciate it.
This isn’t one of those moments, I just wanted to say it. Great little video.
when i create a character or write a story i take the design of each creature and character very seriously, making sure the designs translate well to the intent i want. So i can see the character design interpretations in a similar way that you describe.
I adore good character designs that really take these things into account
Hm. I find this topic fascinating. As someone who illustrates and did character design as a job I rarely DONT think of color choices when designing. If the colors arent supposed to say something about what or who I am drawing, then they are definitely at least chosen to go well together and make a harmonious picture.
That being said I wouldnt neccessarily say every color has a very clear meaning, its more of a vibe you are trying to portray imo.
YES! I'm not the only one! I use it ALL the time for my writing and my painting. Creates a vivid picture about the character's personality and certain emotions they portray.
I did a book report once in high-school. It was interesting because the book also included an analysis by some other person AND a counter analysis by the actual author. Literally at one point the author mentions a blue car and the other persons analysis talks about how blue can represent depression or somethinf but the authors counter analysis was just "no there just happened to be a blue car outside the window when i was writting that part "
This is the best explanation of the thought process I’ve ever heard.
The meaning of life is whatever we decide to assign to it. I enjoy your videos because even if the original artists didn't meant to assign some of the meanings that you describe, it is always fun to interpret an theorize based on the different perspectives others might have. If we don't find any meaning in the things we enjoy we might as well just watch paint dry. Keep up the good work man, I always love to listen to your perspective on things.
This reminds me of a time in English class (American btw) where the teacher put on The Incredibles and asked us to analyze it. During discussion afterward, everyone gave super basic, "Mr. Incredible came to love his family" type stuff, and then I said, "Well, the movie has a theme of not letting go. Both the hero and villain start out holding onto the past, but Mr. Incredible triumphs by embracing his family, who represents his future, while Syndrome keeps clinging to the past and loses, shown by how he's killed by a cape, a symbol of his desire to be super." And my English teacher was floored, she just said, "I didn't think of any of that, good job." Looking back, I think she was an overwhelmed grad student who did a movie day to catch up on things, but I think it's telling to how most people consume media that she was absolutely floored by what is, honestly, not a super close reading of The Incredibles. It's just the theme, really, so it's crazy that most people don't even get that far. Then again, this a world where people say, "I only like apolitical games, like Bioshock," so y'know, media literacy is dead and all hope is lost. Kidding. Hopefully.
I do like the lightsabre example, ad the meme there goes: Why red and blue? Thematic, contrast, good vs. evil! Why green? Well, still thematic, but works better against blue sky. Why does Mace Windu have purple? Because Samuel L. Jackson wanted something special and he likes purple.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but when the symbolism is deep and important that's like crack cocaine to me
You're right, in entirety. But I also agree with "sometimes, the curtains are blue", or as we liked to joke in therapy, "even Freud knew a cigar is sometimes just a cigar".
What is irritating is, I think, not the authoritatian factuality some people have about their interpretations and opinions - "blue means depression because I said so and no other intepretation is valid" approach - but more of a... "blue as symbolism for depression is the only interpretation that's meaningful". While (I hope) not many education systems (aside from, apparently, America?) teach in the completely authoritatian way, many teach in the other. Mine certainly did. It's meant to be a way to show you some... basics? Some foundations for your own interpretations, make you aware how blue is associated and thus how it can be interpreted. But with how the testing system is set up, it promotes memorisation instead of any kind of pattern recognition. My country's final high school exams are notorious for only accepting one very specific interpretation of any given mandatory text, and people learn not how to interpret texts, but how to recognise what the government wanted you to interpret in the text. It can range from "I agree with this interpretation", through "I don't see this but okay, I guess", all the way to "how on EARTH did you come to the conclusion that the 3-word mention of flowers means the author had lost their mother in early childhood?". We even have a whole-ass poem from a very famous poet, titled "A tram", telling a story of how the poet rode the tram. It ends with verses addressing art commentators, saying roughly "this isn't a metaphor, the tram is just a fucking tram, get a fucking grip".
All that to say, yeah. Art complicated. Art critique even more so, especially in the modern times of dwindling media literacy. It's hard to tell whenever people have issues with grasping hte subjective nature of media interpretation (genuinely don't understand that symbolism can exist unintended by the author or can be interpreted differently by different people), or have issues with understanding your words (like the famous problem of Twitter where "I like pancakes" is interpreted as "I hate waffles", thus assuming "blue means depression" to mean "and that's the objectively true interpretation").
Just also thought of a fun example of this: read a comic where the pallette was either "Everything in this scene is blue" or "Everything in this scene is brown". It was a very stark but striking choice but it eventually led to a specific feeling: blue became a very cold colour. It was always pale blues and whites during scenes where the characters were in this creepy lab that was where the villains were doing their plan. It felt sterile and devoid of life, an unnaturally clean place.
Then brown suddenly became a comforting colour: it was always hues of browns and origins. But also occasionally hints of the colours in between: yellows, reds, pinks etc. But those colours are warm and natural and familiar. It was the colour of the main characters hair and skin, the costumes they wore and the fur of the characters pet. It's hard to make brown a beautiful colour but it did start to feel like that in this comic.
Now, this is the bit where I reveal said comic wasn't actually very good. The writing was bad, the lineart was stiff and janky. But the colours just nailed this vibe perfectly. It was such an obviously deliberate choice.
another interpretation of the black colour taking over anakin's design is that black represents freedom in Tatooine culture so he's dressing to reflect his growing freedom but then when he becomes Vader he's encased in it, trapped in freedom
one thing that I always do on my works is step back every now and then and analyze it, every element as if I was trying to find a meaning for why I did the thing like I did. Whatever analysis I come up with for sure wasn't what I had in mind when I was making it, but now that I have that reason then I can continue to create, pushing the presentention closer to this analysis.
Like, at first it didn't have a meaning, but now that I thought of one, I can make the meaning more clear
This is why I adore your discussions. You’re not only sharing, you’re doing so with full respect and love for the material and the people you share it with. Here’s to spreading that kind of open minded kindness and curiosity.
Especially "commercial art"(i.e., character design) SHOULD always have conscious colour choices. Professional art is made by a professional artist, who very probably is very aware of what association a colour or detail has.
Giving my first OC a raven because I love ravens and "my 5-yo coloured the Queen neon green and pink"
are very different from "Hey, here's a design for two characters based on the Info you gave me. "
Even if the artist did not choose the colour on purpose, even then THIS colour was the one the artist submitted. Then, someone else approved it or chose it out of several options because it "felt right" for a character. It still "felt right" because of subconscious associations we have with colors.
As an avid writer, I can attest that some deeper symbols come about entirely by accident. You don't intend for the curtains to be a metaphor but that is how the pieces fell.
This is why the editing process and reviewing your own work is important: so you can notice the accidents and lean into them. If the curtains are accidentally a metaphor, the rest of the room could be made into an intentional metaphor.
I often saw, especially in visual mediums like movies and games, their designers often have specific reasons for colors and themes. Especially on the characters and set designs.
I can always appreciate intent and meaning, but I can also appreciate randomness
This video was a good reminder that it can still be meaningful and cool to have stupidly simply color theory. Like in star wars black robes means evil and moody while the Jedi's earth tones means good stable. It's not complicated analysis, but sometimes it's good to remember that it doesn't need to be to add flavor to a story.
Okay but describing the Vader suit as a sarcophagus goes so hard, thank you
Sadly, in Poland I had same thing at school it always was "Author wanted to show his depression" and no other answer was allowed even if you were eloquent enough to back your thesis up (unless teacher liked you)
The "Pitch black sarcophagus" description is the best thing I have ever heard
Personally, I prefer to engage with my media on the surface level, unless I notice something that’s obviously meaningful. Which is why I like mystery, it’s the genre where the author quits with the crazy obscure stuff, and just tries to make everything make sense.
In my experience, the best artists are intentional about the little details. The purpose of art is to communicate (an idea, a feeling, a message). Being intentional about the little details helps you communicate better.
As an American we did also do that, but few people cared to try to make an argument, so teachers would rather accept their own analysis than a kid just saying, "whatever, man. The green light was just a green light"
Art analysis is in its own way an act of creation. It’s not always about unearthing the intended meaning, but rather forging your own from what you are given within the text
Some people find this kind of analysis boring, but at least for me it has improve my relatiinship with the media I consume, sometimes I'm on the hunt for this kind of details and sometimes I turn my brain off and just vibe.
Having grown up with US public education, a lot of problems come from a huge emphasis on standardized testing. So much was either rote memorization or following simple procedure. It wasn't until university English classes that I was expected to actually use textual evidence to support my reading of the text; everything before that just required following a 5-paragraph essay format and could largely be filled with my opinions or just bullshit that sounded appropriate.
A really good skyen take again, well articulated and precise.
The colors of lightsabers were only standardized when the og movies came out. There's an interview as to why, but to summ it up, they wanted it that way. Mace Windu had a purple one simply because the actor wanted it
That comic strip by Lynda Barry never fails to make me emotional for some reason. It just almost tears me up I love it so much.
stated in a very calm and explainative way, very respectable!
There are entire essays on the very deliberate use of color in the Breaking Bad series, and I find that fascinating
I had a point to make, but then I saw that guy sloppy eating the popcorn over the bowl and I couldn't properly cognitize anything but rage and disgust for a while.
But now that I had typing out that sentence to process things, if The intro to RotJ weren't outside against a blue sky, all the jedi lightsabers would probably be blue. They had to give it a different colour so you could even see it.
I've dabbled in teaching English and my response to "the curtains are blue" argument is "okay, find something else in the text that engages you" The heart of the issue (the good faith version anyway) is the student doesn't find that aspect of the text engaging enough to analyze, and perhaps some other element would activate that analytical part of the brain a little easier. The problem is the bad faith version--where the student objects to the exercise on principle, either through unwillingness to treat the exercise as worth the trouble, or through unwillingness to break apart a text like that (i.e. why can't I just sit back and enjoy it?)
Usually these case are basically teacher force a script onto the student and if they dare think otherwise, they lose a grade.
Honestly, if 90% of my assignments in design school were centered around, "It's blue because it's just blue" or "I just felt like it" I would have been bored out of mind. For me personally (even colour theory or concept) having strong symbolisms and thoughts behind design decisions just make it more fun, interesting and inspiring, and more importantly, direction.
The thing I realized is that when you are making a story or design, you never do things if they don’t contribute something. Especially for things like video games and animated film, there is always some reason why the artist made something the way it is. Sometimes it’s deep, sometimes it’s shallow. Sometimes it’s just “there was a lot of empty space, so I put in some small details to make it look normal”. But especially with color, things are rarely arbitrary, so the whole “this color represents this character’s (emotion)” isn’t actually that far-fetched.
Sideways had a great point about this:
The point isn't that the creator meant something profound with minute details, but they *could* have. And that means when you create, you can also put those kinds of meanings into details you care about.
I was taught with “visual reflections” where you’d be shown a image and then have to interpret it
Keep doing what you’re doing man. Your videos have been giving me a new light through which to appreciate the things I love such as Pokemon, One Piece, and Zelda, but I also just love listening to design critiques you have like LoL. I do not play League, know any champions outside of K/DA, nor did I even watch Arcane, but it’s fascinating to listen to how you see these characters designs and what you take away from them.
Can confirm searching for symbolism in color was never once even mentioned in any of my American English classes
I'm a writer and an artist, so, for me, sometimes, the color choice is just "This is a good color." Other times, there is meaning behind it.
Which is which? Well, that's for the reader to figure out.
My limited understandsing of analysis and literary concepts, I see a lot in common with this and the concept of the "Death of the Author" which as i understand it is the concept that whatever the author may have intended it means nothing from the perspective of the reader. Only the reader's interpretation is important, and is in fact the ONLY correct interpretation.
Looking for meaning in colour and other subtle details in texts/films/games is an exercise in killing the author. If you choose to assume that there is no deeper meaning behind Astarion's clothes and colour choices, then that's fine - and in fact is the only correct interpretation (for you).
I choose to look for deeper meaning behind design choices like these because they elevate the work for me personally. Astarion's clothes analysis spoke a lot to me because I didn't actually realise he was a vampire, up until he tried to suck my blood.
Skyen's analysis hiehgtened my appreciation for Astarion - who he is, is presented quite neatly for you the player to see. If only you have the ability to look deeper than just his surface level mask.
While the curtains could indeed just be freaking blue, it's also important to understand that there's just always going to a certain psychology that comes with colors. Red with aggression, blue with peace, grean with life, purple with royalty, these are just 1% of the possiblities that can come from the utilization in color alone
If Darth Vader’s armour was pink (and Anakin’s colour scheme got pinker as the trilogy went on) then I would interpret that as him becoming more and more of an outsider to the rest of the Jedi Order and even the Sith. The pink is a metaphor for the raw power of the Chosen One becoming more and more apparent, and by extension Anakin’s isolation from the rest of the Galaxy - a place where pink is a very rarely seen colour.
A meaningful art piece is composed of many smaller concepts gathered to point towards the greater meaning the artist wishes to convey, to support the emotions the artist wishes to evoke. Colour choice is a big part of that - if all the colours are "wrong", it'll distort and disrupt the piece.
It's worth remembering that the authors and artists making art are also aware of these associations, and will use them accordingly, too. For an example of that, pulling from Star Wars again: Count Dooku is pretty straightforwardly trying to be a double agent for the Jedi, but the Jedi see a guy with a black cloak and a red lightsaber and immediately assume he's completely lost his mind and become totally evil, rather than trying to do a trick. The Jedi have been duped by their own color interpretation!
little anakin is even wearing a black backpack in one of the screenshots I wonder if it’s because he was already carrying trauma without necessarily being enveloped in it :o
Analysis is a form of creative expression.
Accidental art and meaning is higher power speaking through us.
I remember I had a teacher who went on a 3 day rant about how important it was the Gatsbys blood was red.
As an artist and an american who had some of the worst english teachers in high school for this kind of thing, it took me so long to regain my love for character design because my propensity for finding alternate examples or interpretations of things caused me a lot of trouble in class. If i didnt agree 100% and regurgitate the teacher's exact opinions back at them i would get a poor grade, and it took watching this channel to finally start wanting to engage with this sort of thing again.
This is the ABSOLUTE BEST/MY FAVORITE response I've seen to the curtains are blue I've ever seen. I feel more people need to understand that some people like to heavily analyze for fun, becuase it is fun!
I can understand why some people don’t like to actively analyze media, but I can’t understand why so many of them are so hostile to anyone who does
i personally think its somewhere in between. some design choices are intentionally there to convey something, while others are there just because it looks nice on the character
No way