It depends. Back in the '80s, there was a band with a drum machine fronted by a guy named Steve Albini so powerful they might have taken you out of a performance by blasting you back onto the street outside.
@@YTPartyTonight well was it written with a drum machine in mind? if so, that's completely different, because that's a conscious decision and is part of the sonic aesthetic from the outset.
I befriended a guitarist who for the last two years had been playing as the resident musician. He makes all of his backing tracks and plays and sings along with them. But when he met me and we jammed a few times, he really wanted me to play with him and so I did. I was worried that he or the manager of this place wouldn't like having another musician "steal the light" so to speak, but the opposite happened. They prefer when I play because it adds to the live show. Me and this guitarist have a great time jamming to his backing tracks and the audience loves how we play off of each other. You cannot replicate that in a box. Thank you so much for this post, it just confirms everything I've always thought. You should always play your best and do as much as you can to improve your live show. It's a million little pieces that make a live show a good live show. Thanks Rhett, you're one of my working guitarist heroes!
When I found your channel I was a teenager with big rockstar dreams and a band of dudes that have all moved away and got day jobs. I hold on to my music as I clock in for my 9 to 5 in IT. I play a show or release a song every once in a while but it’s never felt like it used to. It’s frustrating that this world of great live music seem like it’s dying. Thank you for keeping it alive Rhett. I will always look up to you for that.
I feel ya man. I'm older than you but have accepted that if I want to write and record music while playing the odd show AND have a family I had to join the rat race.
I was out of being able to have fun for a long time due to kids, and within that time it seemed like the live music scene died. I could not believe how live music just seemed to die. Used to be able to go to some larger bars and listen to a local band crank out a few covers but also play their original songs. Did not matter if they were awful, it was good fun and you could buy them a beer afterwards. Now that all seems gone and it has gone in some ridiculous optimization route where everything is awful.
If it's not dying then it's at least in a dark age. Between inflation making it hard to make ends meet, ticketmaster having a complete stranglehold on what venues can charge for ticket prices, and Gen Z being anti-social and preferring to stare at their phones, music just not being that good/creative anymore compared to a few decades ago, you'd need to be an incredibly determined musician to still try and make it professionally and as a audience member you'd have to be well off and very into live performances to still bother.
You can’t make a living off of art anymore. It’s not just music, it’s anything that can be transferred over a modem. This issue may never be resolved and it seems to be leading to the downfall of the arts in general.
One thing that’s killing good music is the closing of so many small venues in cities that help create a creative environment and feed a scene. Every documentary you see from every huge rock band , the band always talks about how their city back then had so many venues and bands and how fruitful it was. I have watched almost all the great local venues in LA close the last 20 years. The local band scene is a shell of itself.
@@WhiteWizzard I am suspicious of this “meme.” I have’t seen any reliable evidence. I live in the New York City area and I can say that my observation, for what it’s worth is there are far more venues available now than at anytime since the late sixties. And I am talking the city and surrounding counties. I follow a number of bands and looking over itineraries/tours, I am seeing quite a number of venues around the US. I suggest you take a few bands…not U2 or The Stones! 😊 And glance at their tours. I peruse the local scene and see a huge number of artists and bands I have never heard or heard of. The “doom and gloom” narrative is seductive but I just don’t see the supporting evidence.
@@WhiteWizzard Is this true? From LA Magazine (March 29, 2022). Los Angeles is home to major music labels and massive concert venues that attract huge artists from around the globe, but the City of Angels also hosts one of the largest, most vibrant independent music scenes in the entire country. While most Angelenos, or tourists visiting this great city, are aware they can catch a show at the Hollywood Bowl, The Greek Theatre, Hollywood Palladium, and many other iconic venues, they may be missing out on magical music moments unfolding every night of the week at smaller venues across the city. And who better to talk to about the best of these venues than the LA-based artists who are not only playing them but regularly hanging out in the audience to support other artists in the scene. So, here are some of LA’s best small music venues to check out, according to the LA artists who love them.
@@JohnLnyc You think NYC has more live music venues that anytime since the 60s? I'm (pleasantly) surprised to hear you say that, as I've lived in NYC my whole life and while there are still lots of good venues, I would respectfully have a different view - so many NYC venues of all sizes have closed over the last 2 decades (The Bottom Line, Chicago Blues, Max's Car Wash, The Ritz, The China Club, Limelight - all 3 Rockwood Hall stages,, etc. and that doesn't include clubs closed during the 70s and 80s (CBGBs, Max's Kansas City, etc.) or Brooklyn venues (The Knitting Factory just closed). I could go on,, the list of closure is quite long and the list of newly opened clubs isn't nearly as long IMO. Areas outside NYC have been impacted even more severely - in the 90s, Staten Island had tons of great live music venues - now there' a handful. Jersey had a tremendous live music "circuit" which doesn't exist anymore at all. I'm sincerely happy you feel live music is healthy in the NYC area, and I'd wholeheartedly agree it's better than most parts of the country, but I do long for the days when there were far more quality live music venues in the NYC area
@ You left out one of my favorites…Dan Lynch on Second Avenue! 😊 Yes, I went to all of em. Including a thriving after hours club scene in the seventies/ eighties. Next week I am going to see AC Newman in Brooklyn at “Baby’s All Right”…ever heard of it? New to me. How about Brooklyn Steel or Terminal Five? I have tickets for Larkin Poe at the Wilburn Theatre in Boston. Prefer seats (remember those! 😉) to standing at Irving Plaza here in NYC. ( yes that venue is still going strong). Here’s my theory. Old guys recall all the great places of our prime. Toad’s Place in CT just closed! We lament their closing. But since then, the music business has evolved. Many of us remain stuck in the past. I often spend time with friends lamenting all the great restaurants that are no longer. My thirty something nieces are dining out regularly now at restos I am totally unaware of. The music scene has changed…the area is rife with all sort of venues and the current music scene? Amazing. Vibrant. And obscure to many of us older guys. The suburbs are loaded with older repurposed theaters. Tarrytown to Poughkeepsie! Montclair to Philly! NJ Pac, Welmont Theater, Starland, etc etc etc. A short while back, I saw a listing for a band I never heard of playing MSG…sold out! Who? A band “Cigarettes after Sex” MSG? Sold out? I looked em up. Billions of Spotify streams. Sold out arenas around the world! Gen Z is bonkers over them. I know, arenas not small venues but my point? We are not gen Z. We are not wired in to the current music scene. The music or the venues. I “discovered” an artist, Mitski from New Paltz NY. Six sold out shows in NYC. Mid sized venues. Three nights at the Beacon! “Against The Current” the kids know them as “ATC” a band from Poughkeepsie NY. Touring the world playing small to medium venues and festivals. Oh we never had the plethora of global festivals. Google around and take a look…all over North America. Look at the lineups. I will bet you (and I) will recognize maybe ten percent of the artists listed…the one’s in mouse type on the posters. Suggest you look up”The Warning” any tour. Small to Medium sized venues around NA and Europe! Note how many you recognize. Then pick out a few of these snd find the schedule of performers. I bet it will be eye opening. Was/is for me! So. We are all rooted in “the good old days”…the younger generations included. These are their “good old days” those were ours! Twenty five years from now they will be lamenting the demise of their music. Their venues! “Remember the Williamsburg Theater ( maybe 300 capacity), or Brooklyn Steel? Or “Baby’s All Right?”
Some of the best shows I have ever seen were at small venues. Back in the early 90's I saw Living Colour at a really small bar near NC State just before they really hit the radio. It was fantastic. I also saw 10,000 Maniacs, Cowboy Junkies and others at small venues. I think the ticket prices averaged like eight bucks. I actually enjoyed those shows more that seeing The Who (other than the nostalgia) at Carter Finley Stadium.
I saw the Black Crowes about 4 weeks ago - They had a 6 member band and 2 back up singers. I really appreciated that they brought that many people out - and it was AWESOME !!!
@@art.howard Yep - good point. The way I look at it, The brothers are pretty much the band - and they don’t have the best reputation as far as easy to get along with. There is a story that Steve G. tells about how they both offended Jimmy Page and brought that whole tour to a crashing haunt. All that being said it’s the only way I’m going to be able to hear BC Music live - and it was awesome. So trade off’s need to be made. America’s version on Oasis
The Black Crowes are outstanding. Many years ago I decided last minute to go to NYC for Christmas from San Diego. We ran into a massive snowstorm that blanketed the country and a 3 day ride turned into 5 days. The entire trip was a walkman playing the Black Crowes over and over. I cant say it was fun but it was an experience Ill never forget and the Black Crowes will always be associated with seeing snow, wrecked cars and everybody onboard sharing the misery. I made it home early Christmas morning taking the subway home at 430 AM.
With ticket prices and the way that LiveNation/Ticketmaster have such a tight grip on live shows, the entire system needs to fail before there’s any improvement.
Back in the Pearl Jam rant days, TM was just a parasite draining an extra $20-30 bucks from every ticket buyer. Now TM is the goddam Galactic Empire and we're just serfs and servants in their factories
Some tried but the people voted against their interest. Those people put in ace a supreme court that ruined the chevron ruling that took any teeth from the government coming down on monoplolies like a live nation. Line Kahn the current head of the ftc tried but was unable, but once again the people voted against their interest. Now we're entering a new guilded age where the wealthy corporations are going to get bigger and richer and continue to fuck us.
For big bands its like that. Go see some local originals, buy a cd you'll never listen to but wants the live scene to grow. Small indie bands struggle here
Personally as an independent artist, I play with backing tracks not because I want to make more money but because I don’t have anyone I can play with live. I record and play everything myself already but I hope someday soon I can play my music with other people.
I feel you on this. I even tried playing live with backing tracks hoping other musicians would like the music and come play live with me. Eventually had to pack it up as shows were costing too much. Would I have preferred live musicians with me? Absolutely. Could I afford to pay them a competitive rate? Not a chance. Producing music has become a black hole for my money and I am extremely thankful that by God's grace alone, I have a job that covers this cost.
This is the comment I was looking for. Today there are so many extremely talented hard working music artists that literally do everything themselves so why shouldn't they have the opportunity to bring their music to a stage, represent their music and get paid? I love seeing a full band but I think fans and the community should support solo artists as well
Amazing topic. I work as a FOH tech at a small indie venue. My channel exists solely because my venue allows me to stream the shows I work without any restrictions from Livenation/Ticketmaster. It’s to the point where bands want to play my venue because I do my streaming there and my audience become fans of these bands. Nothing kills the vibe of a show, impression of an artist and admittedly my interest in them more than one of those laptop artists that give me a simple L/R out and their entire “band” is their multitracks. There are instances like a band member getting sick, not finding a good bandmate to play the instrument, etc where there are exceptions to this and backing tracks of core instruments are necessary. In general though, give me a full band and the entire vibe is a better experience for the audience. Great video.
I have a band I’ve been playing with for 8 years - as of 2022 we started doing both my and my girlfriend’s original projects with the same lineup. Part of the magic is the live improv! Because we’ve been playing together for so long we’ve developed chemistry that is definitely noticeable when it’s not there. Live is always better
Last week I saw David Gilmour at the Garden. He's got the FULL rig, Amps and even Leslie speaker included, all the band with their full rigs as well. That expierience is absolutely out of this world. We need to get this experiences back
I saw that post. I agree with you 100% . He's also completely missing the point as to why we go see bands live . The spontaneity. Something different than what we've already heard. As a player, I can't imagine how boring it would get playing to the same stagnant track every night. The crowd would see it too.....because they do care.
@@headwinded1948 respectfully disagree. People like what they hear but they do not necessarily know "why" they like - so in a way they don't know, but they do. We as musicians, actually playing, know how to give/get that extra 10% in a live setting. Sure, you can "get away with" full backing tracks and digital rigs and it will get you 90% of the way there - but that extra 10% is where the magic is. Unless you're playing arenas or stadiums, people can tell whether they really know it or not. At arena/stadium level, you're hearing everything mic'd up or direct in to the PA and not hearing much of the stage - so you can do backing tracks and/or digital rigs with a silent stage. But do that at a small/medium club where the drummer is the only one playing on stage, and that front row of the audience is only going to hear the drummer when they're near the stage. Small and medium sized gigs/venues, where most musicians are playing, benefit from a full live band.
This. I grew up seeing (and playing in) punk and weird/experimental indie bands, where the joy of a live performance is the unpredictability. You hear things you didn't hear on the recorded version - it's an extra treat. And sometimes the performances were technically awful but entertaining in another light (sometimes crossing into comedy). It's the interaction between human beings that makes live performance more special than just having someone play songs to you. We're musicians, not DJs.
People totally care unless they’re going to a pop show for teeny boppers or to see certain bands like KISS who are known to fake their playing and people go for the spectacle. People can tell the difference in the way the songs are played and want interactions between band members and the crowd. I challenge the person who created that post to use a backing track to replace some of the live musicians night after night. He’ll find the crowd thinning out very quickly. He’s gonna be less profitable. He’d be better off performing a solo gig without a backing band than using backing tracks - because people who go to shows want authenticity and live music.
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"When a mother can turn on the phonograph with the same ease that she applies to the electric light, will she croon her baby to slumber with sweet lullabies, or will the infant be put to sleep by machinery?" -from John Philips Sousa's 1906 document "The Menace of Mechanical Music"
This is beautiful. "The baby won't care, I bet it can't even tell if the lullaby is coming from a speaker or its mother". That's obviously rediculous, but it applies to live music as well
There’s a heart-to-heart connection with the mother to the child when she sings with her own voice you will not replace that. There’s also an intention in the mother’s heart when she sings to her baby that she cannot replace with a machine either. You cannot take both of these experiences away from humans. You can, but I don’t be the same
By becoming passive consumers of music via technology - phonographs, radio, TV, records, cds, mp3, etc - we've also ceased to be music makers. Musicianship is a form of literacy that is increasingly the preserve of rich people, a 180-degree turn from a century ago when it was the poor that had to entertain themselves and each other. I've been thinking about this for a while - thank you for the link to Sousa, I'll definitely check him out. 👍
I was in a very proficient 80s cover band, and approached a manager at a local popular pub to see if they had anyone booked for the upcoming NYE event they hold annually. He said no, and I offered to put y band's hat in the ring. He asked "how does $500 for the night sound?" I replied "unacceptable, as we play regular gigs for at least $1,000 per night. NYE should at least be double that." His reply, "but I pay the DJ $500..."
@@johnhareiel5118that attitude is what keeps musicians underpaid. You are part of the problem. We need to value musicians more, instead of working for pittance because it's "better than nothing." Can I hire you for $5/hr? It's better than nothing!
Hi Rhett! Great video, as usual. I resonated with this, very much: I’m an indie rock solo artist from Melbourne, Australia, now based in the northeast US, where I’m fortunate enough to make my living completely from playing out. Almost all acoustic shows currently (about half originals and covers, but it’s always up to me what I play). I’ve been on stage for over 1100 hours since 2021. This year I played everywhere from tiny bars, to casino floors, and even the United Nations headquarters at a private party. I’m about to put out a much heavier indie rock double album that I self-produced, so I’m navigating the logistics of hiring backing players. I did my first festival this year, and I was booked to play solo with compensation. But I put all the money I would have been paid for the set (plus some) towards getting a drummer and a bassist. Because I owe it to these songs to honor them fully. I think the nuances from real players with chemistry can amount to creating the kind of experience people remember forever as a unique and transcendent moment in time. Great art takes more than just showing up and doing the bare minimum. That said, the more I’ve found people who value what I do, the less I’m willing to pay to play unless it’s a career investment. And I wouldn’t begrudge others for that, when so many artistic types aren’t likely to also have a career with enough disposable income to prioritize that over the plethora of other costs we all need to cover to survive. So many corporations (*cough* Spotify *cough*) act like artists should treat their work as a hobby and then make astronomical amounts from that same intellectual property. I’m really proud to keep the lights on with the organized noise I made up. I feel like it’s the best way I can help people. I definitely don’t want to be stuck on the same bar circuit in a decade if I can help it, because it’s not at all lucrative, and being a starving artist is highly overrated. But it beats having to do something I don’t love while I try to work towards bigger opportunities for my songs. You rock! Thanks for always creating such awesome, insightful content. 🙏 P.S. In regard to silent stages: I love my amps, but got a ToneX last month (actually, after watching your video on it) specifically to model my 1966 Vibrolux Reverb because I can’t drag it to Australia, and don’t really want to risk damage to it by taking it out. I’ve taken my other modern reissue amps out instead so far, but I see this as a way to potentially make the live show totally consistent with the album sound. And as a vocalist, I’m thinking less stage volume might make it easier to hear my voice. I haven’t used it live yet though, so we’ll see.
this sums it up, for me: The Elwood Blues I know once said that no pharmaceutical product could ever equal the rush you get when the band hits that groove; the people are dancin', and shoutin', and swayin'; and the house is rockin'!
Not a pro, just open mics, solo with guitar, but you are right. I don't drink but after playing a set I feel really buzzed. Audience response is like a drug. To me that is the heart of my love for playing music for people. I play at all-acoustic and full-band-option open mics. Sometimes people use tracks but it is not pro and may be their only way to show their talent if they don't have a band to back them. At your level i am ambivalent. When you get to a stadium level gig, yea, full live set, people pay for that. I too want LIVE players if my ticket is expensive (lets destroy tickiemaster) but not at the corner bar with 40 seats, no cover. When bar receipts and tips pay the band that is a real thing, as you know. I have seen Moody Blues and Procol Harem with full orchestra and Keb Mo with solo guitar. Bar players with just a simple drum machine. Street busker musicians as good as any of them (Dovidas). All great. To each his own if it allows you to play and make a living. But I understand it is a real situation for those who cannot play solo too. Much like banjo and mandolin orchestras in the last century and movie theater piano players when the 'talkies' came along. Many continued to play but with a new instrument. That may be the future.
Saw Seal a few years ago in St. Pete, FL. With my wife. She was a complete Seal fan. He had a single guitar player, but a complete band-in-a-box. We left mid way through. It was essentially Karaoke. Mechanical. Lifeless.
That's sad. I mean, I get that he's not a huge draw like he was in the '90s and probably can't afford to have a string section, horn section, etc. But he can't at least bring a drummer, bass player, and someone to play synths/keys for the other parts? I've seen people play guitar to backing tracks, and I agree, it feels lifeless in most genres.
I even felt that way with hip-hop artists back when I was in that scene. If the rapper had a live DJ, that made a world of difference than if they showed up with a backing track burned onto a CD
You're absolutely right on. I've played drums for almost 42 years in many styles of music, and currently I'm playing with a blues rock / southern rock band that has an album of original music (that I engineered in my home studio!) out on all the streaming services. We play locally a couple of times a month and have day jobs. People come to see us because we're 4 guys who rock out and put on a great show. I could load backing tracks of covers into my laptop and do solo gigs on my Vdrums and possibly make more money than with my band, but it would suck without the interaction and energy of real musicians, especially since my band writes original music together. People know the difference and do care.
Working cover band guy here. I gig a decent amount (100+ shows a year in 6-8 states). I’ve noticed the heavily tracked bands in our circuit have been losing crowds while we’ve continued to grow with a classic 2 guitar, bass, drum kit setup. We run tracks for maybe 30% of our songbook (random keys, horns, effects), but the idea of tracking an integral instrument to the band ex. bass is lunacy. People notice and can feel the difference with a band that sounds full and is actually playing live. I think authenticity (in a rock band environment especially) is really important to the overall experience of seeing a cover band. People love the songs cover bands play because of the bands and musicians that created them; cutting out members for a track loses that real experience.
100%, I think you nailed it. Having backing tracks for special parts that happen rarely is perfectly fine. And shoot, if everything you do incorporates some electronic pieces, then great! But when you replace things that are core and foundational…for profit or ease? No thanks. Even with my favorite bands if they lacked a member would be harder to enjoy. Understandable if there’s unforeseen circumstances, but it feels wrong to think they are merely swappable pieces.
Yep. No one wants to carry around $30,000 worth of percussion instruments and horns -- and the musicians to play them -- that are each used on one or two songs in a 20- or 30-song set. That's a perfect use of backing tracks. (To clarify, by "'percussion instruments" I don't mean a drum kit. I mean stuff like congas, bongos, tympani, etc. Stuff that your drummer can't play because he/she is too busy playing the actual drum part on the song.)
God, I hope you're right. I've accepted the fact that the golden age is over and has been for a couple of decades. But I want those who still carry the torch to be able to continue (I'll just quickly go past the 'cover band' thing, I need to adjust my attitude - at least you're playing!). And it not be just trustafarians and really, really poor musicians who still play. I know what we do needs to be for an audience to work. And I hope those audiences have their bullshit detectors well tuned. If they wanted to listen to backing tracks, they could go to a discotheque. Teenyboppers aside of course, they have been treated like sheep since Sinatra's people paid young women to scream at his concerts. But real musicians, people who want to be creative (even the cover bands!) are precious. I'm past the point in my life where I'd go touring. I had some success in the 80s, but not enough to pay for luxurious touring busses and guitar techs, so at my age the thought of touring fills me with horror. Sure, I'd enjoy it if all I had to do was play but as I said, my success, proud of it as I am, is just not at the level where I'd get big enough audiences to pay to make it liveable for an old bloke. Anyway, I digress. I really hope audiences are spotting the nonsense and not putting up with it. Maybe that's the good side of this cassette and VHS nostalgia, which I always lay shit on? We ditched those as soon as we could, just because it's analogue doesn't make it better! Yes, I know it's workflow, but a little bit of discipline and you can have that workflow with a sequencer that does audio, you just need to set your own limitations. I don't mean to be disparaging. Cover bands, particularly what used to be called 60/40, used to be the refuge of the same sort of people who want backing tracks because it's cheaper but I get that it's a way for actual musicians to play these days and I'd probably be doing it myself if I were 25 years younger. Good luck with it.
One of the main thing a working-band like yours has going for it is the live musicianship. Maybe I'm not the average live-music-attendee, but personally I think half the fun of seeing a cover band is hearing musicians that are good at their craft and can jam and have a good time. Bring the vibes! And I think the same can be said for working bands that aren't doing covers - being flexible musically is just one of the big strengths of smaller bands - and having all the basses (pun intended) covered, and played by real people is definitely essential to achieving that.
A good example of this is Ian Brown from the stone roses did a tour last year with just a laptop. People who bought tickets were unaware that he was doing this until they arrived expecting to see a band lets say it didn't go down verry well. As the word got out a lot of people didn't go. On top of that the tickets were still the same price as going to see a band. So it was watching someone do karaoke of their own music
"People don't care" - until they do. The nobody cares and nobody will ever notice person in the group what ruins so many things that started out great.
I’m a singer/songwriter. It’s hard t put a band together, t keep it together and t get paid. Rap artists sing t tracks and pack the house. Most casual fans don’t care imo.
At the other end of things you had John Mayer selling out arenas for his Solo tour where people knew if was just him and a guitar/piano and had an amazing night.
Supporting yourself outside of your music is what most musicians do once they learn the economics of the road. To a young musician, that's a hard pill to swallow. But for a recent retiree like me, it's quite liberating. My correct decision to do it at age 21 has been reaffirmed throughout my life more times than I could count. Why? Because I don't have to perform to put food on the table. And now I can enjoy performing on MY terms. No contracts, no deadlines, no commitments. I stay as booked as I want and I'm not beholding to anyone. I sleep in my own bed every night and don't live on truckstop food. You seem to equate silent stage performing to mailing it in using backing tracks. The two are NOTHING alike. Backing tracks are like singing to the jukebox... or karaoke night. But I assure you, I still play my guitar on a silent stage. The only difference is less gear to carry and quicker setup/teardown. And people who say gigging with electronic drums is cheating, or is easier, have not gigged consistently using them. Learning how to express yourself with them is a challenge in itself. I'm not at all worried that live music will ever be replaced by backing tracks. Over and over again, young people see us play and their mouths drop open. Not because we're that magnificent, but because they're witnessing live music up close for the first time. And, often, they approach me during break with all kinds of questions. I try my best to foster their interest. Their reaction tells me the future of live music is bright.
As a full time performing musician playing 5-6 nights a week for the past few decades I can tell you. People do care. They like to see what they are hearing in a live setting.
When many gigs are only paying the same amount of money that I made back in 1978 (literally), it's difficult to justify much. How music (live and recorded) became so devalued in the marketplace is totally heartbreaking. Today's average "fan" will stand in a packed room or even arena to watch a DJ...???!!! It is definitely disheartening.
I'm starting to think part of the devaluation came from the musicians not putting on a special enough show to make people want to see them no matter the price... Especially over the last decade. With putting half the show on tracks, we're kind of devaluing ourselves
@@josuastangl7140 The catch is that putting on a special show that gets people coming back these days especially takes a lot of money, time, and effort. Everyone's got time and effort, not a lot of money circulating tho. In an ideal world no one ever has to ever settle for backing tracks, everyone just shows up and does everything for free. The problem is no one is willing to do that, even at the amateur level. And they shouldn't be expected to tbf. No one expects you to go work for free, you shouldn't expect that from musicians either. Too many people feel entitled to musicians work and performances. If you want a show without any backing tracks start making one, stfu, or go offer to learn and play the parts then provide your own gear and show up and play them for no pay. If you can't do that then you shouldn't complain about backing tracks. Or just make your own music, but then normies and hobbyists would find out recording and making and album is just making backing tracks lmao it's classic, so annoying but a classic none the less
@@josuastangl7140 Most of the audience can't tell if *replacement* tracks are in use. Augmentation and "sweetening" tracks? Yes, because it's obvious there is no string orchestra or African percussion section on the stage, but even then a big chunk of today's audiences don't care - they're too busy streaming their experience live to social media, along with much of the audience. It's more about "look at where I am and what I'm doing" than "this is so good, I have to share it with you." Spectacle sells, so Carrie Underwood had her flying pickup truck; Tay-Tay (on the Push Play tour - aptly named?) had the flying "B Stage" that lifted off and took her back to the main stage; all the wardrobe changes, video, moving lights and lasers and pyro... it's all about putting up an experience that can't be replicated on a phone or even in a home theater. The live concert industry is back to doing dog and pony shows because everything else - the songs, the dancing, the general nature of a performance - is all over social media before the first show is over. Did musicians do this to themselves? I don't think so. It started when commercial radio stations became less and less relevant to the popularity of a song, artist, or genre. As far back as Sony's Walkman, digital portable players and the record company and publishing company concerns about digital piracy, to the smart phone and streaming. This broke the record company business model. Not having radio to "break" new songs and new acts, not having control and accounting over physical media sales, all new to them. They saw the train coming and decided to take a nap on the tracks instead of working up a new business plan. The result is that musicians are even more screwed than they were back in the good old days.
I never comment on videos anymore but have been a “silent” supporter of yours for years now. I can’t believe the timing of you releasing this video. I quit a good job to give my dreams a go. I was a full time musician for the past almost two years now. It was sustainable right up until it wasn’t and I made the decision to go back to that job with a much better schedule that allows for me to still gig, network, record, etc. Even with that good schedule it’s tough to get past the feeling of “failure” at times. To hear your thoughts on that specifically was very helpful and I had to let you know you reached someone and made an impact. Thanks 🤘🏼 Ps. Totally agree on that mindset being trash.
@brannondurkin9522 I had to make the same decision as you in 1976. When Disco DJs replaced club bands I saw the writing on the wall. I metered that feeling of failure you mention against the reality of being able to make a living, as gigs became almost non-existent. Now that I'm retired I don't regret going to work in the printing & later IT worlds. I have a ton more benefits than I'd have had if I'd tried to 'beat a dead horse'.
Totally get it. Just remember how many amazing musicians have 'failed'. Count me as one of em. With that being said, if you can still make records and play gigs who says it has to be done for a living? Most of the bands we loved growing up would also be 'failures' if they didn't have the record companies marketing them to us. My guess is there are thousands of amazing artists out there who would be 'successful' if they had the money machine of the majors behind them. Maybe you're one of them? I think there will be a lot more incredibly talented 'failures' joining our ranks in the coming years.
While I agree philosophically, if artists of all forms can’t make a living, then the profession disappears entirely. You are being way too hard on artists doing what it takes to survive in a brutal industry…and are just perpetuating the idea that all art is just “art” and you should be happy to get a beer for your efforts.
I am not musician but I have been going to shows since 1979. I have seen everyone from the Eagles to Bad Religion, I can't even think of seeing a band that only using "Backing Tracks". This Dude is F'ing crazy, Most of us do care.... Thanks Rhett for setting the record straight
I appreciate your words on artists who have day jobs, being one myself, and having other musician friends and collaborators who do the same, we sometimes may question if we’re “real” artists because of it, but having been continuing to work on my music career and develop my skill set, alongside my day job/career for years now, I’m just proud that I haven’t let stigmas or a lack of energy get in the way of me doing both. I feel very fortunate and lucky to be In my situation, and would encourage others to not give up on their music dreams just because they have day jobs :)
I like the "rant" version of Rhett! I would like to see more videos about the business side of music and more videos of actual music making (spontaneous or practiced jam sessions either solo and with other players). Dig your insights!
When whoever posted that says "Nobody cares", they're really saying that they don't care themselves - and that probably shows in their live performances. I get such a kick out of playing live with a band - the give and take between real musicians. I genuinely think that fun and spontaneity comes across to the audience.
I completely understand your frustration. And you are 200% correct. I remember two great articles about how things have changed. One was written by the guy who wrote Louie Louie. He described how making records was to inspire folks (kids), come to the shows which is how they made money. They supported themselves by playing live. Fast forward and it became about selling units i.e. records so the focus was on making the best record you could make to sell as many copies as possible. Completely different focus. And now lo and behold we are back to doing live shows to make a living. When Radiohead put out a record online effectively for free they asked their fans to pay what they felt it was worth. And some jackass from the Wall Street Journal wrote an editorial about how they were ripping off their fans. Stay with me here. His logic? The average fan paid x dollars for the record but it only cost Radio head a significant amount less to print the disc. Complete utter nonsense. The amount of training, practice, sacrifice, and serious real hard work it took those guys to get to the place where they could do what they did was completely ignored. Clearly the writer was incensed that the middle man was taken out of the equation. This needs to happen with the monopolistic companies like Live Nation and Ticketmaster who control not only the ticket sales but the venues as well. The other article was an editorial by Courtney Love. She broke down in great detail how bands back when could make a successful album, and tour, and still own money. It was quite an astonishing piece. I will end with Hunter's famous quote: “The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
I have to completely disagree with what the guy said about nobody but bass players care if you don't have a bass player live. The bass player is the absolute most important person on the stage. (Then again..... I'm a bass player. 🤔)
They’re coming for us. We have to stand strong, bother. 😉 The irony of him being a drummer, when drum machines have been a thing since the 80’s, wasn’t lost in me.
@chrismn601 Hahahaha! Yeah. Very true. I used to play with a drummer who didn't want to play to a click track. I told him that I had a drummer named 'Al Esis' who could lay the tracks for him. After a few threats to his ego, he nailed the parts to the click. I then brought in an 80's Alesis drum module to show him who could've done it. 😆
I’m fine with having a bass player if the bass player knew their jobs. If not you better believe imma back track them myself since hell you gotta be better bassist then me if you’re playing with me.
@@redcomn That statement can cover a lot of ground. More than once, I’ve upset a guitar player by asking them if they’d like me to show them how to play a part.
This is my ultimate pet peeve! Learning a craft, creating Music, can Never be Milli Vanilli. Music is Spiritual. Even if the general public IS clueless, They DO notice Less power & impact in the music they pay too much to witness Bring back LIVE MUSIC, before it completely dies!
Agree! We are full time touring musicians. We would LOVE to have a full band and have tried to put band members together, many times over the years. However, we have not found anyone committed enough to make the sacrifices needed or cutting expenses in their own lives to do what we do. We are forced to compete with bands that refuse to charge for a full live band and instead work for beer. When bands start charging for their craft and come together to hold the line, the venues will meet the expectations instead of hiring the cheapest ones they can find.
I'm with you on this, too, Rhett. My era of doing traveling live dates was in the late 70's and all through the 80's. The total touring experience, from setup to striking the gear, along with everything in between was a necessary part of getting good at doing just that and working toward making an OK living at it. But by the time I came to L.A. in the 80s and learned how the sausage was really made, I began to see the beginnings of what you are addressing. Many of us died trying to make it, while myself and others took day jobs, which at that time was seen as betrayal in L.A. But after bad contracts, bad promoters, and bad management, we had to go back to playing because we loved it, and then go to the day job in the morning. Yes. I do sessions for clients at home, but my heart was always from the time I was in elementary school in the 60's was to be in front of an audience. I'm 66 years old now and the phone doesn't ring as much as it used to, but I have no regrets and havn't lost the love of playing my guitars. I'm not complaining, because I had my time in the lights. I didn't make it to the top, but my wife and I survived all that and learned a lot. I'm still teaching kids to play the guitar. My, how things have changed. Thanks for speaking truth, Rhett.
@@RhettShull I got to see Isbell in Asheville unexpectedly, as a guest artist with the Allman tribute band called Trouble No More with Daniel Donato, etc. That show was *amaaaazing* .... Just looked up the 400 Unit tour dates, and of course they aren't coming to the PNW. Most of the things I want to see are too good for Seattle booking agents to know or care about them. I gotta move to the south. Sigh.
This is great, I'm 31, Iv'e been playing since I was 8 years old. I played in a few garage bands then when I went to college for music, I formed my own rock band, met some of my favorite musicians from the 70's, 80's ,90's. I got very lucky. I got hit with hard times post college when my family imploded, and had to regroup everything. I have a day gig teaching guitar, band classes, GarageBand soon, mon-thurs, and I help with the retail on Fridays for the students or other musicians that need help with decent affordable gear. I still have my band today, Currently working on the next EP for our second session in LA. we've played out of town and state, recorded in awesome studios, and we play live all together. The best advice some of my more seasoned friends gave me was always have something to supplement beyond the band, like what you're saying. It's nice living in both worlds. Nobody said it was easy. Just keep pushing forward, and keep playing and writing music. 🤘🤘 Thank you for being a good voice on this.
Once again you've nailed it! As a local gigging dive bar musician, I saw this coming. First, in the 70's the union lost the bars to "scabs" (or so the older guys told me). Then came karaoke and old school DJ's who were paid almost as much as a quartet ultimately driving down the amount the bars would pay for ANY entertainment. Sophisticated tech followed starting with loop stations and drum machines enabling solo and duo acts to collect the same $ as an actual band. Now with Ableton live, a laptop, and a triggering device, the pressure to go solo or duo is greater than ever. Bars are paying worse opening fewer slots to bands and they prefer not to give up the space it takes for a whole band. If a solo act, a duo, a karaoke night, or a modern DJ can get butts in the seats, most bar managers prefer them.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Yikes. That is a sad statement on the value people are placing on live music. I guess I should quit whining about the low $$ and be thankful we get paid at all?
@@markgawry4873 It was the kiddie 'punk' bands who did in the scene here. They 'stuck it to the Man', as in the unions that would have protected and paid them through dues. Thus the union wilted while the club owners smiled and made up crowd losses by extracting cash from WASPy rich kids with 'punk bands' (aka amateurs). Moms with minivans lined up outside the stage door while the 'label guys' with 'artist development contracts' lined up behind the moms ...
@@markgawry4873 Oh yeah, a 'major label' here now extracts 25 percent of its artists' LIVE earnings on the basis that "we develop their albums so we recoup our loss that way."
@@markgawry4873 Oh yeah, and the 'labels' here extract their artists' live earnings on the reasoning that "we developed their album sound so we regain our loss from their live work."
I'm a synth guitar player and I always get accused of using backing tracks. I take it as a compliment as I play everything live! The reason I've played like this for the last 30 years is when we used to use a backing track it would go out of sync or we couldn't hear it. They were a pain to programme and set up. The only reason we used them in the first place was we couldn't find a keyboard player (there was a huge lack of compitent keys players who could play Chick Corea in early 90's Scotland. If they could, they were already too busy). When I first played a brass part on my guitar synth at a rehersal the drummer luaghed so hard (in disbelief) he fell off his stool and knocked himself out on a metal radiator. I knew then it was a good thing!!! Most people don't realise what I'm doing. I'm constantly battling with sound engineers who treat the synth sounds like an afterthought because they don't see a keys player, but it does give the band something unique when people are told it's me playing the keyboards (and guitar at the same time). I'm not stealing the job of a keyboard player because most of the bands I play with don't use one, but they get one when I play with them. My original music is centred round the guitar synth (Nickjitsu-Hyperreal) and that is where I do occasionally have to use backing tracks. I hate them, but when your playing a modern music show, gear demo or doing a mastercass you can't not use them. However if I go out with a band, it's a band and not a backing track in sight...........and **** your silent stages!
Greetings from great Britain...long live the guitar synthesizer...its a steep learning curve getting to grips with one...but man it's rewarding...so much so that when I plug into my Vox valve amp I'm kinda underwhelmed...that said I still do it as if you cannot sound half decent on an acoustic or just plugged into an amp you've had it...that said reverb and digital delay are very addictive...The Edge has been an addict all his life..he started out on gateway standalone pedals and now he freebases entire racks of digital gear....he uses loads vintage classic guitars to offset his habit...but ultimately he could use a 600 quid Mexican fender strat and it wouldn't make a difference in the long run...lol....BTW...actually I love The Edge...im just trying to be droll
@@jaydlytning Because there are no keyboards. I'm playing all the keyboards live on guitar using my guitar synth. I'm playing the regular guitar stuff too, so despite telling them and doing a soundcheck, they forget to turn the keys up in the mix. To be fair, it is quite rare!
@@jarrodhrobersonthe difference with him is that people aren’t expecting to see a band, they are expecting to see Bucket Head play guitar. In his position, I understand just using backing tracks because it really wouldn’t make sense to have a full band with him. It only makes a difference if you were to show up to see a rock band, but there’s only a guitar player, a singer, and a drummer, but you hear two guitar parts, a bass, and a keyboard being played.
From someone whos been to a number of concerts. Your spot on Rhet. There is a huge presence to having all the members of a band on stage. It's fine to add things that might be hard to cover but most of the time those can be done without. Keep going Rhet. Love your work.
As an ex hired-gun guitar player, I can see both sides. It used to piss me off to no end to see how EVERY “Top-tier” artist that we opened up for, would be playing to tracks. ALL OF THEM!! We were proud of the fact that we had near perfect 4 part vocal harmonies, but these dudes just pressed play! And every time I asked why, I got the same reason….money. I get his comment that people don’t care, because he’s kinda right. Most of the people in the crowd were oblivious that there wasn’t a keyboard player, or there were tons of background vocals being sung by no one on stage. Now mind you, most of these were larger festival type shows, but I can honestly say, the people in the crowds were clueless…
Beardyman is an absolute genius Live Producer. He makes and remixes every sound with his voice and throws total raves. He tries to tell the audience every show “I’m doing this all with my voice” and hardly anyone cares. People just want to have a good time.
Yeah, noticing is maybe what we can discussed, but it's a bit pointless. I think nearly all of the advantage with real players is how it feels. Modern DAW grid convenience songwriting undynamic performances might never become really alive, but songs that are fuelled by the push and pull of a great band that are used to perform together is all about what live performances are. That came first; before songs on record that people listen to at home. Rock instrumentation is great because it fits as many people as can be defined and take place in a mix. It works audio wise but have it's advantage in humans performing like expressive humans. The sad thing is the disadvantage of not having as powerful and clean sounds as synthetic kicks and such. I love natural roomy sounding records with very defined performances but I think audioengineering nearly should become more radical to chase that clean and powerful sound programmed music, but with a great focus on highlighting expression; samples with velocity and such. People don't notice or don't even choose the right thing, but they absolutely love expressive playing. We, on gobal level, just need to fucking kill the loudness war mindset and straightness of music that has sufficated dynamics and minimised the room for expression for a while now.
@ I TOTALLY agree!!! Used to chap my ass that we worked hours on 4 part vocal harmonies, while “bigger” artists we opened up for just pressed play. But I’d still have done it ourselves ANY day…
It frustrated me immensely as a concertgoer when I paid and went to hear AND SEE a band for specific songs that had a killer intro, only for that to start as a cued recording through the sound system. It ruined the mood for the whole song.
It was not until I was 55 before I took up the guitar. I found the time for lessons and I have been in several small starter bands. Now I'm in a small duo (The Adjacents) with a vocalist/keyboard player. We have fun, but here in ABQ it is difficult to make much more than two beers and pizza. I don't play for food, not uppity, just would rather play for tips. After 13 years learning, and continuing to take weekly lessons, I love playing out, love being on stage. That's my payout. It would be better to be appreciated by venues and their managers to point of some level remuneration. We need to buy cables, picks, stage clothes, maybe a new rig. You cannot trade two beers and pizza or #25 split three ways with two other bands because the venue offers that as compensation. This post you offered is not the solution, in my mind. We are duo and make good music with the proper selection soul, blues, and rock adjacent (get it The Adjacents🤣) to the music work and entertain the audiences, and make us happy.
@@CarlosTVilla well that would be impossible because for the most part homo sapiens lived in fluid dispersed bands of hunter-gatherers.. More likely since the outset of sedentary stuff-hoarding aristocracies, which is not long ago.
I'm with you on this for sure. I've always felt this way about the biz. Every show should feel like a "SHOW." Like theater. A performance! That includes gear choices, wardrobe, when you walk into the room until you walk out. Start to finish.
As a five member band from a small town out in the middle of nowhere Wa state, we LOVE playing live. We fully agree, when people, even out here, come to a rock show, the showmanship of five guys playing instruments live is definitely is part of it and they do care! Thank you for always speaking truth and supporting / inspiring playing live music for the passion of playing live music.
My first concert was Van Halen in 1984. My ticket cost $13. I was a concert junkie in the 90's. For the price of a ticket today I want to feel the energy you bring not a recorded vibe. People play off each other, there is a beauty there that I seldom get from just music or a famous person on a stage.
That would be a $40 ticket today, and unless it absolutely sold out, Van Halen likely still lost money on the gig. But back then VH would have made millions from album, and single sales and radio play, touring was basically loss maker to help promote the album. The relationship has reversed in the new century, music sales, basically streaming, basically count for nothing unless you're a Taylor Swift or a Lady Gaga.
and guess what, Van Halen figured out how to perform songs that modern bands would use backing tracks for! They took sacrifices in regards to the instruments they would have to drop in order to execute it live (guitar, etc.), but that's the point of a semi spontaneous live performance. They also wrote music with the intention of performing live...
I saw Dire Straits in '92, full nine-piece stadium band, for $32. In 1997, Mark Knopfler solo comes through a small hall with his little pub band ... tickets $79 and $99. Yeah, right , NO.
Sadly, he is right. Giant Popacts are lipsynching with autotune and people aren't even mad. People used to get so angry and would want their money back when they found out it was lipsynch. Just to clarify I think this sucks
The funny thing is the biggest pop acts (who can afford it to be fair) are going back to live bands, or at least a mix of both. They want to give people a good show. Acts like Harry styles, Chappell roan, Billie eilish. Gives me hope.
People are used to it with pop acts, hell they even expect it: you're now seeing criticism of some 'bedroom' pop acts like Gracie Abrams who are just 'standing there playing a guitar or piano' instead of big choreographed numbers or Billie Eilish who's 'just' singing. It's bizarre.
They Might Be Giants and Ween both started as 2 guys and backing tracks on tour. They both eventually had full bands live, but that's when it was sustainable. You don't have to like it, but teh reality is that a lot of people will just not do it if they can't make it work financially. This isn't the 60s and 70s when record labels let bands gradually develop and the band actually pocketed everything from touring. This is the era of 360 contracts and the label milking every dollar from the band, plus the issues w/ticketmaster and live nation, not to mention clear channel owning so much of the radio in the US. If you can get on the road with a full band, awesome. If it's you doing a one man show, hey at least you're out there. This video feels like you're really just gatekeeping what musicians should be, and frankly, fuck that shit.
Hy rhett. Thanks for the View. I total agree with your words. Special with the amp and Look on Stage Thing. I Love to hear that in world of "Clean" stages. Rock'n'Roll and keep up the great Music and Videos. Greetings from Germany.
Great point Rhett. We do notice the lights, thematics ligned up with the music of the artist, having a live person there who can interact with us. That all creates an experience for which I am willing to pay. Saying it doesn't matter and people don't care will only detract people from coming to the show.
The other side of that is bands around here. You go to a joint to see three bands ... but all three bands are in each others' bands just with a different singer.
Alternate perspective... I front a band a no-name band, in a small town, in a rural part of the state. I want nothing more (as a musician) to play with a live band. But our talent pool is microscopic. That means we get what we get for the band. Essentially, whoever shows up consistently, is willing to learn the songs, and has a little skill to work with, they're in the band. So think that thru... let's say the lead guitar player is quite talented, but determined to play like Eric Johnson on acid 83% of the time. Or the drummer refuses to stop including crazy fills that knocks off the song timing by 1-3 beats. Or the bass player wont... Or the singer don't... And on top of it all, there are only about 13 places to play in a 2hr radius. Point is, without real cohesion for "the music" a band isn't a band anyway. It's just a group of people playing the same songs at the same time, but pulling different directions. So if you want to propel YOUR OWN music forward, that band-of-misfits approach just doesn't work. Yes, I'm all about "collaboration" but not all "collaborators" are created equal. In my situation, the best way to propel forward my vision for my music is probably as a solo performer w/ backing tracks and a full PA system; with the sincere hope that players will hear me, like the music, and want to join my band. Your assumption is that a soloist-with-backing-tracks will further cheapen the music scene (race to the bottom) and displace real musicians who deserve work, purely for economy and convenience. I suppose that may be true in a place like Nashville, but not so much out here in BFE. Out here, playing with an invisible electronic band that I actually created in post to match my vision for the music, sounds like a pretty damn good idea. JM2C
You're not alone my friend. I live in an area where there are a lot of playing musicians, but they are all playing with 1,2, or 3 bands already. It s definitely not easy, but that's not to say to just skip it, not try and play with tracks.
@@bigsmash6349 OMG you are SO correct about THAT ^^^ I'm a one-band-kinda-guy and don't even bother trying to deal with players who have 3-5 other irons in the musical fire - their attention, allegiance and priorities are in a continual state of flux, and scheduling gigs is always a complete crap-shoot because anything can change for those "attention-compromised" players chasing bright shiny things - JM2C on that LOL !!!
I agree that people definitely care. I always love the vibe of having friends on stage! The other downside that would come with using just backing tracks is that there's no space for improvisation. You can't extend that section the crowd is really into. You can't make that intro a little longer for the crowd tease. The most disappointed I've ever been with live shows is when they play a 1:1 with their recordings where other than seeing them I might as well have just played the album
Well said, Rhett. I love live shows because of the spectacle of live performance. Concerts are a whole experience. If I want to listen to a playlist, I'll sit in my bedroom and listen to one.
I agree with Rhett regarding the point of cost savings being really a bad motivation of using backing tracks and replacing amps. On the other hand: I just started using pads and additional vocals on backing tracks because we don’t have a keyboard player and more harmonies are just great. Like that, I just have more artistic options.
Yeah like, many artists don't have infinite budget and many venues don't have support for an entire orchestra so you can enhance the live experience, it's supposed to be a show in the end. Of course, I still think it's very important to prioritize live playing and use live players cause that's also the charm of the live experience, if I want to hear exactly what is in the album I just listen to the album, so it's a fine balance to not race to the bottom but also enhance the experience
You said it best Rhett; people care. They do, and they are not coming to show to listen to the music. They are paying to experience the music. Experience the energy in the room, the excitement of the band playing, it is all very palpable and that dude has no clue what he was talking about.
I think if you're putting virtual band members on tracks, then you can't complain that "people just don't seem to care about live music as much as they used to"
You’re simply wrong if you’re claiming the majority of people care. The numbers don’t lie. Artists like Taylor Swift aren’t really live and yet they’re the biggest around. Clearly the tens of thousands paying good money to see her night after night don’t care. Sure, some people do, but they’re in a niche, which isn’t going to make for a sustainable career for the vast majority of bands.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 Taylor Swift has the most intense marketing campaign we’ve ever seen behind her, I don’t think that’s a realistic comparison. Many of the biggest touring bands play without any tracks.
Like who? Even bands I love like Muse are undoubtedly using tracks somewhere in their live performances. I could name a few but they wouldn’t be the most mainstream ones on the whole.
None of this would matter if people actually still cared about music. Sorry to piss in anyone’s Cheerios here….but the music industry has been destroyed and there is so much music being created by so many people that aside from the huge legacy bands that have been round for decades, the average person doesn’t care about music anymore. There are certainly very few people who seek out new music or get excited about new artists. I get no pleasure saying this as a guitarist who’s been playing out since the ‘80’s, but the art of making new music has been destroyed. There are many debatable reasons for this, but a saturation point has been reached when musicians are manipulating their art to try and fit any conceivable venue they can get paid to play and that is driving a “DJ” mentality in playing live. If society eventually shifts to be excited about music AS LISTENERS again….I will love it. But right now……the audience isn’t listening……….😢
The saturation point was reached and exceeded years ago. My son plays music and he’s worlds better than me but neither him or any of I friends are out new music. They are listening to Led Zeppelin and Van Halen.
100%. It's so tough for us musicians and writers to take because we all grew up being inspired by music to make music of our own. Not only is the music market oversaturated but it's become some kind of background app on someone's phone. Most young people don't throw headphones on or a good stereo and listen to somebody's record over and over again, reading the liner notes and getting absorbed in it like we used to. It's all playlist streaming and quick, short content like Tik Tok through phone speakers. And very few adults past the age of 30 actively seek out new music which is sad because there is a LOT of great new music out there. Most people in that age bracket listen to the sound track of their youth and only spend money on shows if it's one of those artists. Furthermore any 'new' musical success seems to be a Nepo baby, a Disney or TV star, or has the financial backing from rich parents.
The audience is still listening (and watching) but they are listening to a wider number of musical outlets. It used to be people only listened to a radio, then albums, then cassette tapes, then MTV and finally CD's. It's no coincidence that the music business changed when the computer/internet age arrived. All of a sudden people had many more outlets to consume music but they didnt just quit listening. They're just not getting it from a very confined few outlets like decades ago. There are so many places to hear music today and so many more people creating music today. The business is watered down with so many musicians and so many outlets to hear music. Live music is a bit different but it's still impacted by the conditions of the music industry. People went to live events in the past in great numbers because of how limited their music heroes were heard or seen. Nowadays you can hear or see almost anyone, anywhere at anytime with the click of a mouse or tap on a phone or tablet. I would argue that music listening is at least as great as it ever was but it's spread out so far and wide it might feel like there's less but I dont think so.
@@PennyAuctionI make music nearly daily but, honestly, I don't listen to new music at all. Really any music these days. When I do, it's something random on Amazon music, usually something I know. I've tried - I've saved a bunch of albums as a kind of pseudo record collection and only listen to those, forcing myself to listen to every album as if I'd bought it and only listening to something else as a replacement but it doesn't work. I just don't enjoy music much any more, as anything more than background. Can't tell you the last album I actually cared about.
@@DanielC__ I disagree. General public nowadays mostly just listens to noise. Anything that requires attention or creates emotional response is discarded. It's all about creating simple hooks after one another with no attention span. Actually listening to music requires effort which modern people are not interested in. People don't go to those live shows for music anymore. They just want a visual show and be part of the crowd. Music is in the side-lines.
As a solo metal artist who plays rock shows with vocals and a track and sometimes a drummer when I can get him I can’t help but agree that yes people do very much care. I got the idea to perform this way because I saw rap concerts on UA-cam and thought as long as you can translate the hype and energy it’ll be okay. And yes it is okay to a point, for example now I refuse to perform with my vocal track backing me because it ruins the experience and turns the set I’m trying to perform into a side show and not a rock show. I’ve performed with guitars vocals and tracks before and I’ll be honest it felt weird and unless you’re a crowd member it’s very easy to get thrown off cause you’re having to follow a track that is being over powered by a guitar but when I’ve performed vocals drums and tracks it’s not the same kind of issue. Eventually I would love to do full band stuff again because I believe it would be something very special and also because people notice and from a sound and show perspective it’s where the energy comes out the most. Yes the money saving from being solo is nice but also music is one of those things where just cause something is the in way of doing things now doesn’t mean it’s gonna be that way forever.
What’s magical about live music is that it’s being made right now in front of you. You are part of it as the audience. Some backing tracks, ok, a click track is ok. But when you have whole sampled musicians, it’s not live music anymore. Still though, play live anyway you absolutely can. I’ve played solo gigs to backing tracks before, and it’s OK, but it’s not the same as having the full band of musicians with you.
@@RhettShull facts, but there are also amazing performers who use nothing but digital means to promote their art. In the end, it's not that the audience couldn't care less, it's all about the music. If you can use your gear to your benefit, then more power to you.
The market will decide if people care or not. There's an audience that doesn't care.... and there's a audience that does (Anybody watching this channel probably cares). People pay to listen to DJs spin a record and are okay with it.. it's not 100 miles away from that. Rhett talks about a friend that goes and plays music on his own terms is honorable.... but someone else that does it in a way that he doesn't like, is in a race to the bottom, even though they're still playing their music and might be able to support a family. People.... decide with your wallet.... if it matters to you, don't give your money.... if it doesn't... enjoy the show.
This is the correct take. The market will figure itself out. If the show is good enought, great. Playing everything live without tracks is simply another way to enhance the experience.
Believing that all a DJ does is “spin a record” is a mentality preventing many musicians from putting on better shows. Go watch a Carl Cox show and tell me all he does is push play. Arrogance is an obstacle to understanding.
@@JumboDubby Obviously not, great DJs are worth a lot. Reading the room and seemlessly bringing the appropriate vibe is a massive skill. But live music is a completely different category. I don't think @Zappalrl's intent was to talk down on DJs.
What is so depressing Rhett is just how endemic this $$ profit disease is in our country. Boeing used to be the best of the best at building airplanes, but slowly financial heads took over the company and decided to move to Chicago; ever since it's not about making great aircraft by great Engineers, it is about profit, ever higher profit margins. Intel... they got to resting on their laurels and same thing, instead of relying on the Engineers who designed your best products, they let financial heads run the company into the ground. Referring to Uncle Larry, music is run by financial folks who demand it sound a certain way because that worked in the past and they are not musicians, it's all about the profit, THEIR PROFIT. If you try to compete they use their obscene money to buy you out and shut you down. Why compete when you can just put someone out of business? I could go on and on, but suffice to say we live in a world where money has poisoned every well of creativity, passion and equitable living.
Well, that what happens when capitalism reigns. It’s unavoidable in the end. It’s a shit “societal” system. It only serves to make the rich get more rich and the poor to give their riches to already rich ones so that they can get even richer. If you doubt me, look at the world around us and tell me how this isn’t the case.
I agree. Not only does it matter, but it is the whole point. I see live music to see people play music and interact with each other as well as the audience. I can listen to the music at home on my phone if I just want to listen to the music.
I have a 'band', well, a 'project'. I started it because I wanted to choose the songs I will play (and sing; I sing so I can choose the material, too). It was a Robben Ford-style blues project, now it's a 'classic southern r&b' project (think Dr john, The Meters etc). In both scenarios, I have a minimum 'product' for playing this repertoire and some of my originals in the same vein. And that product is a minimum viable lineup of me (vocals and guitar), a bassist, a drummer and a Hammond organist/keyboardist. never any digital auto-triggered bells and whistles (that's okay for Def Leppard and say modern r&b artists with album samples for effect etc). And the challenge I have at my age (47), and with the people I hire to play with me is availability - there are a lot of family/kids commitments in my age demographic now, and most of my band members-as opposed to me with a day job-live off music, so will understandably prioritise a $500-1000 wedding or corporate gig over my $150-250 small bar gig. Knowing this, I know that my commitment to not 'reduce' the concept to something that doesn't resonate live will limit how many times a year the project will gig. And I have to be cool with that. So, if I A. Don't have the full lineup available for a gig and/or B. The money on offer will make the gig run at a loss, the gig doesn't happen. What I HAVE done in the past is have different 'configurations' of the band for different gig settings, so: 1. The 'main' band (4-5 piece): danceable funky classic R&B for 'bigger concept' gigs. [Repertoire = Dr john, the Meters, Earl King, Jon Cleary etc] 2. A Hammond trio version: some repertoire crossover, but more jazz-influenced repertoire for small/more intimate 'front bar' gigs. [Repertoire = some tunes crossed over from the main band set list, + Grant Green, McCoy Tyner, john Scofield, all that] 3. A blues power trio: [Repertoire = some tunes crossed over from the main band set that WORK in trio format + flat-out I-IV-V blues in the vein of Jimmie Vaughan, SRV, Freddie King, Gary Moore etc]. I realise my scenario is way different from someone who is just doing original pop/alt/r&b whatever, but I work to make my band sound and feel great for different settings, as I REFUSE to do solo gigs, whether it's acoustic or with tracks. For acoustic in particular, I feel that the entire repertoire needs rearranging so you don't 'notice' the band missing, and I just won't dedicate any time to doing that for what will still likely be a less-than-exciting gig outcome. Like, when bands have a solo artist as a support act, I usually cannot wait for them to finish; as a punter, I find it terribly underwhelming.
Hey folks. Check out Fil at Wings Of Pegasus. He’s currently calling out famous “artists” for using backing tracks and pre-recorded vocals. Don Henley/Eagles, Celine Dion, Taylor Swift. Those fans DON’T CARE. They just come for a “performance”. Live, backing tracks, autotune, pitch correction, miming. Their fans are being duped, and when Fil points it out they accuse him of hating the artist, and that they don’t care anyway. It’s disgusting. We have to fight it.
I get your frustration, but how exactly do you intend to fight it? Unless people en masse start to care about it, musicians from the highest to the lowest level are going to keep doing it, because it's a practical solution. I feel at the moment, for people like us who do kind of care about it and miss the way things used to be, we're just becoming old men shouting at clouds as the expression goes.
You haven't backed up your feelings with any facts or data. Younger people are going to open mics with karaoke on their phones and their friends love it. Touring bands are playing for meals and hotel rooms. That's one step above busking. And homelessness. Solo artists are playing with machines that harmonize and add drums. Folk artists are playing with foot things that add bass drum to their songs. This makes it really hard for us naked solo artists to compete. Reality sucks sometimes. Take it or leave it or be soooo good you can't be denied. That is a very high bar.
@5:48: "....these monopolies being able to set the system up to benefit only them at the expense of the artists...." I was around in the 70's and 80's. It's always been this way. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
So right, Rhett! It is harder and harder to make a living any more doing live music. I hope things change with the leadership change in our country because people are having a tough time just making ends meet. Even churches are filling in their musicians with tracks. However, there is nothing like it as a musician when you interact with other musicians and that is where the best creativity is born! Canned music is also a killer of improvisation. I like to hear new music and not covers of old tunes that are exact copies of the original. Sure bands that do covers live like The Analogues are cool and have a place in music doing exact copies of the Beatles, but they go to fantastic extremes to make it all live! Love it! It wouldn't be the same using a track!
I totally agree Rhett. Playing live while having to play along with pre-recorded tracks takes the life out of the music. I went down that road for a few gigs and absolutely hated it. I also hate hearing recorded tracks at a live show. I have worked a day job my whole life and have continued to enjoy playing and making music.. I always wanted to do it full time but as I got older. (I am 68 now!) I was grateful that I didn't have to depend on it to live. I have had much more freedom in my creative journey.
A large amount of us live in rural or smaller communities where we are VERY limited to having access to other musicians and almost no access to hirable musicians for live gigs long term like more than one or two shows, and backing tracks are our best options to get the ball rolling for our music. Yes we WANT to have a bass player, and a live drummer on stage, we just don't have the option. To say it's wrong, or a race to the bottom because they are not on stage and you want to play and share your music and an audiences won't like that is just an oversimplification. What your saying is not wrong when you say focusing on the "wrong mentality" by focusing on the money, but your lumping ALL of us in together under using backing tracks and ONLY addressing this with one throw away line at 10:42 seconds into a 11 minute video is not ok. It's not right and you should know better. The "stray bullets" fired on this take are negligent. This should have been in the beginning of your "hot take" in my small and humble opinion. Just look at your comments and how fast every diehard rock musicians ran to exclaim things like "Great Rant! Thank you Rhett. Let’s make live music great again." Or another example, "Yeah! Completely right. Real musicians are the thing. Amen." I have fought to make using backing tracks for newer acts and musicians trying to transition from a solo act to a full band ensemble, and the amount of backlash you take from the old guard for using ANY backing track ever in a live show is harsh and tough to overcome. The technology has come so far with backing tracks that playing live shows, even as a rock/metal/blues/guitar musicians you can put on a good show, and it can be used to go and recruit the right band members and still be growing a musicians skills in a live environment. Thanks for listening and you make some of the best content for modern musicians and guitar players out there. Your work is appreciated. This should have been at the top of the comment, but I think it make my point a little better, being at the end.
agreed, this is the most privileged blues dentist coded video I have seen in awhile, but then checked out this dude's channel and he seems to have that mindset.
Couldn't agree more. I'm in a busy band in Ireland and still use an amp pedals on a circuit where most guys are using modellers and in ears, I'm regularly asked about my rig by people afterwards. People still care. I need to keep it real for myself too, otherwise what's the point?
Totally agree with the rant - people want to see the music unfold from the stage and they don't want to see someone press play on their laptop. I played a gig last night, and I'm at my day job this morning (albeit goofing off watching UA-cam videos). It took a while to be able to make both work and music fit into my life, but it was totally worth the the hard work to make it happen. Now, work is work, and music is joy and I can love making music and performing without worrying about paying rent. Keep up the good work!
I think it’s going to depend on your situation. The band I’m in, I think having only one or two members makes a good stage presence difficult. My solo industrial project with mostly synth instruments, though? It might almost look weird if I did a live show and had multiple keyboardists onstage. I could run around and sing, play violin, or play guitar or bass, depending on the song. Plus, not having to coordinate practices or shows with others is a bonus when I’m busy enough as it is. Edit: side note: it’s hard to find metal musicians where I live, especially drummers, so I’d rather start doing shows with backing tracks short hand and try to get more members later, maybe even BY doing live shows and saying “we have an opening, if anyone’s interested.”
As a performing artist running her own project, I get both points of the conversation. Even though I would never have stems on stage, I get why people do it (I also think it's more acceptable in certain genres, like pop). This is an indirect result of musician's income being reduced to two main veins: touring and merch sales. Since album sales (which now count as merch, because physical copies mostly sell only at shows) aren't a thing anymore, and streaming doesn't pay, artists have to find a way to maximize profit wherever they can. This is not so they can become rich, but so they can afford to survive, record (and then do it again), while they are not touring... It really sucks, and I will keep trying my best to bring a band on tour. However, what has happened so far is that I tour solo. It's not ideal, because it's more demanding to carry the entire show by myself, and I would prefer to have my music better represented (the way it's supposed to be), but it's just completely prohibitive to bring an entire band on tour. Personally, the only independent musicians I know who can get away with this is people who are married to one of their band members, so this helps with overhead, as they can share costs. If people want to see full bands, then they need to be prepared to actually support touring bands, and demand Spotify to pay artists!
Unfortunately, you can't discount the tastes of the audience. Once upon a time, every town had dozens of live music venues all playing original music, but the audiences shifted over to DJs in the 80's and just kept going more and more in that direction. Today, mainstream audiences simply cannot bear going and listening to songs they've never heard to experience new music. They just don't want to do it.
The only thing I care about when watching live music is hearing musicians rip on their instruments. I sold merch at a theater for bands... The bands that got above average reactions and sales were the ones playing their instruments hard and well.
Agree. I’m old. And, I’ll add to your case, Rhett - I’m always surprised to see (usually) younger artists just assume that they can and should be entitled to make a living playing their music. This was just never the case when I came up, even the bands I knew that were signed to a major in the heyday of the 80s - if they didn’t already know, they soon learned that nothing is a guarantee. At the local level I sometimes see younger bands wondering why everyone isn’t buying advance tix for their show…this was just never a “thing”.The fact that there are alternate venues like house concerts and stuff is great, use those. The bands I love from 70s/80s/90s that succeeded were driven and worked their asses off for little to no dough in hopes that that work would pay off someday. A badge of honor you might say. They presented their thing in as proud a way possible, and all my real rocker friends had day jobs - like you say, that’s a realistic way of surviving if you’re only interested in being a real / original artist. Hey I know there are scenes I’m not involved in that do justice to their music with tracks, some of course use it super creatively. But I think the discussion is about real bands here, and so…yes, lame to forgo actual players.
I saw JJ Gray and Mofro in Douglas Georgia a few weeks back. Tickets were $75.00 a seat. There was an opening act with 6 members. JJ carries 8 plus himself. Best concert I've seen in my 58 years on this planet. Not sure he made money that night.
That's all pop and rap artists. It's where music is now. Name your favorite band. There's dozens of pop artists that are bigger that are 100% doing karaoke.
@@danielclark612 I’m aware of where music is now and how are dozens of pop artists bigger than bands/artists I like, but that doesn’t change anything. I don’t want to sound purist here but to me instrumentals are equally important, especially in genres I’m into, but I get that are people just interested in the singer’s presence and their interaction, that’s just not what I’d pay for
It’s not just the cost it’s the headache. Bad attitudes, lazy during setup and tear down, unwilling to take feedback, too freaking loud with no feel, inconsistent performance, drunks, stoners, and skirt chasers make having a band miserable. The egos and know it all attitude is unbearable. I won’t join a band because I am not spending my free time messing with talented a$$holes jeopardizing my hearing and impacting my quality of life to play to people that pay attention to 15% of what you do. I can play in my music room with a backing track and enjoy it just as much. If I can do a solo show with backing tracks at a Marina a couple times a month and actually make money using backing tracks I’d do that. Were I lucky enough to be able to tour on my own music I’d hire a backing band if I could and use backing tracks when I can’t. A trio would be the max I’d try to keep together as a unit. Two guitarist and a keyboard player. Split the bass lines. Have the drums programmed or hire a recommended local drummer. I’m too old and too jaded to deal with the drama of a band especially when venues don’t pay any more for a a band than I made as a roadie in the 80’s and 90’s.
A band is a family, whether functional or not. And I can suspect that the same conditions (money, too much selfishness) are starting to make real families impossible too.
Did you ever see Ed Sheeran live during his early career when he was a solo act, just his acoustic guitar and a loop pedal? He created the backing on the loop pedal live. Amazing performance.
Well, it all comes down to people's individual boundaries. You could argue that creating a backing with a loop pedal live, is a skill in itself, and I would personally agree. But some would say even that's just cheating with technology.
I agree with you. I’ve played music since the 70’s. I currently play with a 3 piece cover band that also does some originals. We also have full time 3 man support team that help with setup, sound, and lights. We have a 4th musician who is currently on an extended leave due to medical issues. We are and have been profitable since the beginning. We use no backing tracks, no auto-ttune, nothing like that. I won’t say we’re making a living because this is a second income source for all of us, but we ARE profitable. I believe you should do it for the love of music. There’s an old song called Souvenir Bottles that has the lines “Remembering last night and four men standing there, making something out of nothing, making music out of air. “ There’s nothing like playing live with good musicians. Your enthusiasm will be picked up by the audience and it enhances the entire experience. The $$$ is an added bonus.
Agreed. I understand the dilemma of reproducing the sounds from a recording and not having the budget for enough musicians to do so. But to me, the recording is a creative ideal of the song, the live version doesn’t need to be that. Personally, the only music and vocals I want to hear as an audience member, or offer to an audience as a performer, are what is coming from the stage live at that very moment. That is the magic of live music! I would rather hear a rearranged or leaner version of a song live than to have tracks covering what’s missing from the studio version. I’m a musician who has played in various styles and types of ensembles. That’s normal to me. I also know that to be employable I need to be able to work with tracks. But to your point regarding streaming, listeners are not invested in the music. They don’t physically invest in a hard copy and listen to all of it over and over. They simply stream the songs they like when they want to hear it and that’s it. Too many have a fleeting relationship with the music and musicians they like. So in order to appease the (too low?) standards of the audience, and make shows more profitable (because audiences don’t know or don’t care), musicians will be replaced with tracks. Unfortunately, it’s become an accepted norm. Acts at all levels of the industry do it. Because it’s more about “the show” than the music.
Also I may add: You've got to make your Live Experience different from your traditional tracks. It's important to bring something new to your live show: An extended version of a song, a different solo, an engaging audience singalong bit, etc. This is part of the magic of a live show.
Boomer rant ..As a survivor of touring in the 70s my mind is scrambled by all of this. Like many others in the industry we were a band who had fire in our bellies and the ambition to knock the audience sideways from the first chord. Just lads with big amps, instruments and voices to storm the beaches. People came to see a band and many had their own favourite members of that band due to the music they made. They knew more about the bass player than we did but he made most of it up. We fecked around and It made it all fun and that showed in the music. We constantly challenged the songs themselves which is something a digital track can't do. What I'm saying is that if people pay to see a band and only get two people with tracks, which isn't a band, then its feels like a plastic fake. An Ableton track can't drag you up off the floor when the world is rough and put you back together like a band can. Loyalty meant we made money on gigs and records which I know isn't possible now and I feel so sorry for working musicians who deserve better. End of boomer rant.
I saw your comment and agree. There's too many people phoning it in and not doing the work. And the sound definitely suffers. If you been going to shows for years you hear it plain as day. And we need to be supportive of other musicians. Less competition more community, it elevates everyone.
For restaurant gigs it worked great for my duo. My keyboardist was an amazing jazz improv soloist and jazz piano teacher at a college. I played jazz guitar with basic improv skills. Also vocals were important……. The interaction we had was great. The jazz tracks on band in a box are real players. The live part was how we improvised in the moment. A small P.A. With instruments pluged in directly.
for a lot of us, the only thing holding us back from the success we hope to find in music is time and resources. we don't do this for the money. but we love what we do so much that, if it is possible, we want to make a living doing it. I am the only guitarist in my band. not because I don't know anyone who can play our music, but because we don't have room in the van for another musician and we don't have the resources to pay another musician. tracks are more for filling out the sound to bring the full song arrangement to the audience. it also allows for time coordinated show elements that require us all to be on a click. running digital rigs cuts down on cargo and opens up a lot of real estate on the stage. running tracks gives us the freedom to bring sonic elements to the table that would be otherwise unattainable. he's right. in general people don't care about you having tracks. what they do care about is his your show made them feel. I hope you didn't intend it this way, but your take on being an artist and having a career outside of music being the way to go kinda feels like giving up to a lot of us. playing shows and sharing our music with the world is the only thing some of us want to do and it's all we've ever wanted. searching for ways to be able to sustain ourselves is a conversation that needs to be had.
I get the point idealistically. But if you're a touring act unless you're still a baby band supported by your parents, maximizing profit has to be your main concern. Otherwise what's the point of touring? Having done it forever, sure the thrill of playing and sharing your music drives you, but if there's nothing left at the end of the tour to pay your rent or mortgage or feed your kids then it's pointless.
Just gonna prefire a comment here. Some people don't need musicians. Ever seen a dj? That threads comment is right in some sense. The people don't actually give a shit if you're running a track for bass for example. If you're a big name and get hired on as a feature then maybe 10% of people care. You vastly overestimate the need for integrity in live settings. Not to mention for smaller artists hiring people to play instruments just to appease a vocal minority of purists is another barrier of entry that detracts from the actual creative process. Alright i reached the end. Yeah, telling people they should essentially pull themselves up by their bootstraps (boomer take) instead of gaming the system to actually focus on your dream is crazy coming from a self sustaining youtuber. I think theres a difference between cutting out your friends for a buck and not getting pressured in to hiring some holier than thou session guy because the one or two guys who come up to you after the show to comment on your board and amp setup thiink you should be more "authentic". Fuck that.
Boomer here. I belong to the people that care (and not because I want to talk about their gear, I want to see them play live. Otherwise I could go to a disco or play their music at home). I never would go to a show where a lot or everything of the music is coming from prerecorded tapes. I really can't understand why people go to such events. But I know, a lot of the younger people are different in that regard.
As the sound man for a classic rock 3 person band who are very good players, most of what I notice is people probably under the age of 40, don't know the genre or care that a band is even on stage playing, they gather in a group together and talk to each other for the entire time they are there, the music is simply just background noise. The older crowd that did grow up with the songs on the radio or who had the albums etc. Do very much appreciate and engage with the music and the band. We do about 30 gigs a year, definitely not for the money, we split it 4 ways, all have jobs that provide for our families. The younger crowd in general (there are exceptions) just barely care, and are just there because their friends are there, and they have a lot to talk about. Honestly its amazing how much and for how long they can talk.
Tell that to the vast crowds of young people at the venue where I work every night! Young people care about live music; they might not care about your style or genre, but assuming young people don’t care about live music is harsh. How many songs are you playing that have come out in the past 2-5 years that they know? You do sound for a classic rock cover band; it’s in the name. It’s older, it’s classic. People who were alive when the music was released will always be way more interested in that music.
As a solo act who plays guitar and sings covers, I have had several folks over the years thank my for not having backing tracks in my shows. It would be fun to have some tracks backing up iconic songs, but I don't want to be tied down to a set tempo and or key all the time. If I'm in hour three of a four hour show and someone requests a song in a key that's too high for comfort after three hours of singing, I'll often lower the key on the spot. Maybe the crowd is amped up and I want to speed up a slow song, I have that ability. With backing tracks I feel locked in. And lastly, I enjoy playing live with other musicians. We can feed off of each others playing and vibe. And yes, I do have a full time job that supports my playing solo gigs as well as two other bands. We don't tour, but we do travel for our gigs. Thanks for the rant, Rhett.
Absolutely agree! I grew up in an era live music in the 1960s and 70s. It was organic and there were moments that went beyond, they were magical. How we changed speed and rhythm and volume added to the magic. I loved jamming at the end of a song when the singer would say one more time and we knew we were ending it. We were in the moment. That is being lost on the synthetic, musician-less acts today. In my opinion most of them aren't worth listening to, they are a waste of talent and time. Last night I just saw the Magical Mystery Doors. They were incredible young people playing their instruments to the fullest. The did the music of the Beatles, the Doors and Led Zeppelin. They even did mashes. Real live music. What I live for...:)
Hey Rhett, love your channel. Let me start by saying I’m 58ys old and have played music off and on my whole life. Mostly the weekend warrior kinda stuff. Sure,in the beginning I had the dreams and aspirations of being in a band that toured and hit the big time,but eventually realized my path was not in that direction. Anyway, to this day, I am in a local working band. NRPrhyme, and we consist of 5 total, 4 musicians and a singer. I have several friends whom I have played with over the years and I’d say the last 10-15years the evolution of playing live has changed. There are so many different aspects, theory’s if you will about how to achieve success in music. Whether it be locally or Nationally! Song writing or performing. I’m old school and still love the magic of music when you’re lucky enough to find a small group of musicians that are talented enough to create a moment that gives you chills during a performance! I still lug around amps,pa gear, etc. But the sound of everyone playing in unison on stage is like no other! I believe that talented musicians are a lot more difficult to find in a small town per se, and I believe that’s why a lot of singer song writers use backing tracks,etc. And if that path can lead them to success, far be it from me to judge them. I’m sure you know the struggles of a small town musician trying to form a band to play out live! Not easy my friend. I have several friends who perform with a host of backing tracks that make a little more money! But almost everyone of them say they would rather have a band. But sadly, we make the same money as a band we made 25years ago! The venues in our area budget their entertainment accordingly, which means we are lucky to get $100 a piece for a 3 hour gig! But in short, I most definitely agree with you! Music is heading in an uncertain direction! Hopefully the small town, local musicians and bands will continue to keep up! We all need music in our life’s, in some way,shape or form. So don’t give up the fight just yet, keep on keeping on! 😎🎸🤘🏼
Nothing takes me out of a performance more than not having live drums.
It depends. Back in the '80s, there was a band with a drum machine fronted by a guy named Steve Albini so powerful they might have taken you out of a performance by blasting you back onto the street outside.
the choice isnt just drummer or drum machine. there's lots of percussion in-between.@@YTPartyTonight
@@YTPartyTonight well was it written with a drum machine in mind? if so, that's completely different, because that's a conscious decision and is part of the sonic aesthetic from the outset.
Drums are essential even there’s drum tracks to augment.
@@YTPartyTonight I believe it. I never saw Big Black live but I saw Shallac live and the drummer was my favorite part.
I befriended a guitarist who for the last two years had been playing as the resident musician. He makes all of his backing tracks and plays and sings along with them. But when he met me and we jammed a few times, he really wanted me to play with him and so I did. I was worried that he or the manager of this place wouldn't like having another musician "steal the light" so to speak, but the opposite happened. They prefer when I play because it adds to the live show. Me and this guitarist have a great time jamming to his backing tracks and the audience loves how we play off of each other. You cannot replicate that in a box. Thank you so much for this post, it just confirms everything I've always thought. You should always play your best and do as much as you can to improve your live show. It's a million little pieces that make a live show a good live show.
Thanks Rhett, you're one of my working guitarist heroes!
When I found your channel I was a teenager with big rockstar dreams and a band of dudes that have all moved away and got day jobs. I hold on to my music as I clock in for my 9 to 5 in IT. I play a show or release a song every once in a while but it’s never felt like it used to. It’s frustrating that this world of great live music seem like it’s dying. Thank you for keeping it alive Rhett. I will always look up to you for that.
I feel ya man. I'm older than you but have accepted that if I want to write and record music while playing the odd show AND have a family I had to join the rat race.
I was out of being able to have fun for a long time due to kids, and within that time it seemed like the live music scene died. I could not believe how live music just seemed to die. Used to be able to go to some larger bars and listen to a local band crank out a few covers but also play their original songs. Did not matter if they were awful, it was good fun and you could buy them a beer afterwards. Now that all seems gone and it has gone in some ridiculous optimization route where everything is awful.
If it's not dying then it's at least in a dark age.
Between inflation making it hard to make ends meet, ticketmaster having a complete stranglehold on what venues can charge for ticket prices, and Gen Z being anti-social and preferring to stare at their phones, music just not being that good/creative anymore compared to a few decades ago, you'd need to be an incredibly determined musician to still try and make it professionally and as a audience member you'd have to be well off and very into live performances to still bother.
You can’t make a living off of art anymore. It’s not just music, it’s anything that can be transferred over a modem. This issue may never be resolved and it seems to be leading to the downfall of the arts in general.
@@reverbautopsy9093Exactly
One thing that’s killing good music is the closing of so many small venues in cities that help create a creative environment and feed a scene. Every documentary you see from every huge rock band , the band always talks about how their city back then had so many venues and bands and how fruitful it was. I have watched almost all the great local venues in LA close the last 20 years. The local band scene is a shell of itself.
@@WhiteWizzard I am suspicious of this “meme.” I have’t seen any reliable evidence. I live in the New York City area and I can say that my observation, for what it’s worth is there are far more venues available now than at anytime since the late sixties. And I am talking the city and surrounding counties.
I follow a number of bands and looking over itineraries/tours, I am seeing quite a number of venues around the US. I suggest you take a few bands…not U2 or The Stones! 😊 And glance at their tours. I peruse the local scene and see a huge number of artists and bands I have never heard or heard of.
The “doom and gloom” narrative is seductive but I just don’t see the supporting evidence.
@@WhiteWizzard Is this true? From LA Magazine (March 29, 2022).
Los Angeles is home to major music labels and massive concert venues that attract huge artists from around the globe, but the City of Angels also hosts one of the largest, most vibrant independent music scenes in the entire country.
While most Angelenos, or tourists visiting this great city, are aware they can catch a show at the Hollywood Bowl, The Greek Theatre, Hollywood Palladium, and many other iconic venues, they may be missing out on magical music moments unfolding every night of the week at smaller venues across the city.
And who better to talk to about the best of these venues than the LA-based artists who are not only playing them but regularly hanging out in the audience to support other artists in the scene. So, here are some of LA’s best small music venues to check out, according to the LA artists who love them.
@@JohnLnyc You think NYC has more live music venues that anytime since the 60s? I'm (pleasantly) surprised to hear you say that, as I've lived in NYC my whole life and while there are still lots of good venues, I would respectfully have a different view - so many NYC venues of all sizes have closed over the last 2 decades (The Bottom Line, Chicago Blues, Max's Car Wash, The Ritz, The China Club, Limelight - all 3 Rockwood Hall stages,, etc. and that doesn't include clubs closed during the 70s and 80s (CBGBs, Max's Kansas City, etc.) or Brooklyn venues (The Knitting Factory just closed). I could go on,, the list of closure is quite long and the list of newly opened clubs isn't nearly as long IMO.
Areas outside NYC have been impacted even more severely - in the 90s, Staten Island had tons of great live music venues - now there' a handful. Jersey had a tremendous live music "circuit" which doesn't exist anymore at all. I'm sincerely happy you feel live music is healthy in the NYC area, and I'd wholeheartedly agree it's better than most parts of the country, but I do long for the days when there were far more quality live music venues in the NYC area
@ You left out one of my favorites…Dan Lynch on Second Avenue! 😊
Yes, I went to all of em. Including a thriving after hours club scene in the seventies/ eighties.
Next week I am going to see AC Newman in Brooklyn at “Baby’s All Right”…ever heard of it? New to me.
How about Brooklyn Steel or Terminal Five? I have tickets for Larkin Poe at the Wilburn Theatre in Boston. Prefer seats (remember those! 😉) to standing at Irving Plaza here in NYC. ( yes that venue is still going strong).
Here’s my theory. Old guys recall all the great places of our prime. Toad’s Place in CT just closed! We lament their closing. But since then, the music business has evolved. Many of us remain stuck in the past. I often spend time with friends lamenting all the great restaurants that are no longer. My thirty something nieces are dining out regularly now at restos I am totally unaware of.
The music scene has changed…the area is rife with all sort of venues and the current music scene? Amazing. Vibrant. And obscure to many of us older guys. The suburbs are loaded with older repurposed theaters. Tarrytown to Poughkeepsie! Montclair to Philly! NJ Pac, Welmont Theater, Starland, etc etc etc.
A short while back, I saw a listing for a band I never heard of playing MSG…sold out! Who? A band “Cigarettes after Sex” MSG? Sold out? I looked em up. Billions of Spotify streams. Sold out arenas around the world! Gen Z is bonkers over them. I know, arenas not small venues but my point? We are not gen Z. We are not wired in to the current music scene. The music or the venues. I “discovered” an artist, Mitski from New Paltz NY. Six sold out shows in NYC. Mid sized venues. Three nights at the Beacon!
“Against The Current” the kids know them as “ATC” a band from Poughkeepsie NY. Touring the world playing small to medium venues and festivals. Oh we never had the plethora of global festivals. Google around and take a look…all over North America. Look at the lineups. I will bet you (and I) will recognize maybe ten percent of the artists listed…the one’s in mouse type on the posters. Suggest you look up”The Warning” any tour. Small to Medium sized venues around NA and Europe! Note how many you recognize.
Then pick out a few of these snd find the schedule of performers. I bet it will be eye opening. Was/is for me!
So.
We are all rooted in “the good old days”…the younger generations included. These are their “good old days” those were ours!
Twenty five years from now they will be lamenting the demise of their music. Their venues! “Remember the Williamsburg Theater ( maybe 300 capacity), or Brooklyn Steel? Or “Baby’s All Right?”
Some of the best shows I have ever seen were at small venues. Back in the early 90's I saw Living Colour at a really small bar near NC State just before they really hit the radio. It was fantastic. I also saw 10,000 Maniacs, Cowboy Junkies and others at small venues. I think the ticket prices averaged like eight bucks. I actually enjoyed those shows more that seeing The Who (other than the nostalgia) at Carter Finley Stadium.
I saw the Black Crowes about 4 weeks ago - They had a 6 member band and 2 back up singers. I really appreciated that they brought that many people out - and it was AWESOME !!!
But none of them the band from the albums. All unknowns playing for probably a few hundred a night. The big league version of band in a box.
black crows minus drugs very refreshing
@@art.howard Yep - good point. The way I look at it, The brothers are pretty much the band - and they don’t have the best reputation as far as easy to get along with. There is a story that Steve G. tells about how they both offended Jimmy Page and brought that whole tour to a crashing haunt. All that being said it’s the only way I’m going to be able to hear BC Music live - and it was awesome. So trade off’s need to be made. America’s version on Oasis
And they're all broke!
The Black Crowes are outstanding. Many years ago I decided last minute to go to NYC for Christmas from San Diego. We ran into a massive snowstorm that blanketed the country and a 3 day ride turned into 5 days. The entire trip was a walkman playing the Black Crowes over and over. I cant say it was fun but it was an experience Ill never forget and the Black Crowes will always be associated with seeing snow, wrecked cars and everybody onboard sharing the misery. I made it home early Christmas morning taking the subway home at 430 AM.
Race to the bottom sums it up perfectly.
It’s sad. But it’s also great for bands who bust ass and have the songs and work ethic that they stand out.
@@Billywagner22 regarding touring, all the big draws are in their 80,s ,then what happens ?
It’s all about what the venues are will to pay. Which depends on how many people attend.
With ticket prices and the way that LiveNation/Ticketmaster have such a tight grip on live shows, the entire system needs to fail before there’s any improvement.
This is the actual answer. This rant is pointing the fingers at the wrong folks as the problem.
Back in the Pearl Jam rant days, TM was just a parasite draining an extra $20-30 bucks from every ticket buyer. Now TM is the goddam Galactic Empire and we're just serfs and servants in their factories
Sad, but true.
Some tried but the people voted against their interest. Those people put in ace a supreme court that ruined the chevron ruling that took any teeth from the government coming down on monoplolies like a live nation. Line Kahn the current head of the ftc tried but was unable, but once again the people voted against their interest. Now we're entering a new guilded age where the wealthy corporations are going to get bigger and richer and continue to fuck us.
For big bands its like that. Go see some local originals, buy a cd you'll never listen to but wants the live scene to grow.
Small indie bands struggle here
Personally as an independent artist, I play with backing tracks not because I want to make more money but because I don’t have anyone I can play with live. I record and play everything myself already but I hope someday soon I can play my music with other people.
I feel you on this. I even tried playing live with backing tracks hoping other musicians would like the music and come play live with me. Eventually had to pack it up as shows were costing too much. Would I have preferred live musicians with me? Absolutely. Could I afford to pay them a competitive rate? Not a chance. Producing music has become a black hole for my money and I am extremely thankful that by God's grace alone, I have a job that covers this cost.
There are people out there. Don't stop looking.
Networking and organizing are very important skills for musicians. You will find your players if you make an effort.
This is the comment I was looking for. Today there are so many extremely talented hard working music artists that literally do everything themselves so why shouldn't they have the opportunity to bring their music to a stage, represent their music and get paid? I love seeing a full band but I think fans and the community should support solo artists as well
By introducing people in your project you are adding unnecessary drama and other bs that will slow you down
Amazing topic. I work as a FOH tech at a small indie venue. My channel exists solely because my venue allows me to stream the shows I work without any restrictions from Livenation/Ticketmaster. It’s to the point where bands want to play my venue because I do my streaming there and my audience become fans of these bands.
Nothing kills the vibe of a show, impression of an artist and admittedly my interest in them more than one of those laptop artists that give me a simple L/R out and their entire “band” is their multitracks.
There are instances like a band member getting sick, not finding a good bandmate to play the instrument, etc where there are exceptions to this and backing tracks of core instruments are necessary. In general though, give me a full band and the entire vibe is a better experience for the audience.
Great video.
I have a band I’ve been playing with for 8 years - as of 2022 we started doing both my and my girlfriend’s original projects with the same lineup.
Part of the magic is the live improv! Because we’ve been playing together for so long we’ve developed chemistry that is definitely noticeable when it’s not there.
Live is always better
Last week I saw David Gilmour at the Garden. He's got the FULL rig, Amps and even Leslie speaker included, all the band with their full rigs as well. That expierience is absolutely out of this world. We need to get this experiences back
It takes someone at his level to take 30 people out on tour though.
Yeah i literally cannot spend $280 to go see anybody. Including David Gilmour. Good job, rich people get to enjoy concerts.
@@sub-jec-tiv Thats how it is now. I wanted to see the Eagles and ELO and prices were just ridiculous. Cannot afford that.
I saw Knopfler who uses modelers and I didn't miss anything. I saw Metallica who use modelers and I didn't miss anything.
Uh, dude. IT's FKN DAVID GILMORE. It;s not Joe Unknown from po-dunk nowhere that doesn't even have a record yet
I saw that post. I agree with you 100% . He's also completely missing the point as to why we go see bands live . The spontaneity. Something different than what we've already heard. As a player, I can't imagine how boring it would get playing to the same stagnant track every night. The crowd would see it too.....because they do care.
Your average listener is fairly oblivious to the authenticity of what they hear through a PA, don't kid yourself.
@@headwinded1948 respectfully disagree. People like what they hear but they do not necessarily know "why" they like - so in a way they don't know, but they do. We as musicians, actually playing, know how to give/get that extra 10% in a live setting. Sure, you can "get away with" full backing tracks and digital rigs and it will get you 90% of the way there - but that extra 10% is where the magic is. Unless you're playing arenas or stadiums, people can tell whether they really know it or not. At arena/stadium level, you're hearing everything mic'd up or direct in to the PA and not hearing much of the stage - so you can do backing tracks and/or digital rigs with a silent stage. But do that at a small/medium club where the drummer is the only one playing on stage, and that front row of the audience is only going to hear the drummer when they're near the stage. Small and medium sized gigs/venues, where most musicians are playing, benefit from a full live band.
He not only misses the point as to why we go see bands live, but also why we ourselves go and play live music in a band. Because it's fuken hilarious.
This. I grew up seeing (and playing in) punk and weird/experimental indie bands, where the joy of a live performance is the unpredictability. You hear things you didn't hear on the recorded version - it's an extra treat. And sometimes the performances were technically awful but entertaining in another light (sometimes crossing into comedy). It's the interaction between human beings that makes live performance more special than just having someone play songs to you. We're musicians, not DJs.
People totally care unless they’re going to a pop show for teeny boppers or to see certain bands like KISS who are known to fake their playing and people go for the spectacle. People can tell the difference in the way the songs are played and want interactions between band members and the crowd.
I challenge the person who created that post to use a backing track to replace some of the live musicians night after night. He’ll find the crowd thinning out very quickly. He’s gonna be less profitable. He’d be better off performing a solo gig without a backing band than using backing tracks - because people who go to shows want authenticity and live music.
"When a mother can turn on the phonograph with the same ease that she applies to the electric light, will she croon her baby to slumber with sweet lullabies, or will the infant be put to sleep by machinery?"
-from John Philips Sousa's 1906 document "The Menace of Mechanical Music"
This is beautiful.
"The baby won't care, I bet it can't even tell if the lullaby is coming from a speaker or its mother".
That's obviously rediculous, but it applies to live music as well
Ouch ......... !!
There’s a heart-to-heart connection with the mother to the child when she sings with her own voice you will not replace that. There’s also an intention in the mother’s heart when she sings to her baby that she cannot replace with a machine either. You cannot take both of these experiences away from humans. You can, but I don’t be the same
He would have loved AI music generators. 😂
By becoming passive consumers of music via technology - phonographs, radio, TV, records, cds, mp3, etc - we've also ceased to be music makers. Musicianship is a form of literacy that is increasingly the preserve of rich people, a 180-degree turn from a century ago when it was the poor that had to entertain themselves and each other. I've been thinking about this for a while - thank you for the link to Sousa, I'll definitely check him out. 👍
I was in a very proficient 80s cover band, and approached a manager at a local popular pub to see if they had anyone booked for the upcoming NYE event they hold annually. He said no, and I offered to put y band's hat in the ring. He asked "how does $500 for the night sound?"
I replied "unacceptable, as we play regular gigs for at least $1,000 per night. NYE should at least be double that."
His reply, "but I pay the DJ $500..."
Guess you didn't get paid that night. $500 is better than nothing bud
@@johnhareiel5118that attitude is what keeps musicians underpaid. You are part of the problem. We need to value musicians more, instead of working for pittance because it's "better than nothing." Can I hire you for $5/hr? It's better than nothing!
@@willygarciadrums3521 100% with you!
Hi Rhett! Great video, as usual. I resonated with this, very much: I’m an indie rock solo artist from Melbourne, Australia, now based in the northeast US, where I’m fortunate enough to make my living completely from playing out. Almost all acoustic shows currently (about half originals and covers, but it’s always up to me what I play). I’ve been on stage for over 1100 hours since 2021. This year I played everywhere from tiny bars, to casino floors, and even the United Nations headquarters at a private party.
I’m about to put out a much heavier indie rock double album that I self-produced, so I’m navigating the logistics of hiring backing players. I did my first festival this year, and I was booked to play solo with compensation. But I put all the money I would have been paid for the set (plus some) towards getting a drummer and a bassist. Because I owe it to these songs to honor them fully. I think the nuances from real players with chemistry can amount to creating the kind of experience people remember forever as a unique and transcendent moment in time. Great art takes more than just showing up and doing the bare minimum.
That said, the more I’ve found people who value what I do, the less I’m willing to pay to play unless it’s a career investment. And I wouldn’t begrudge others for that, when so many artistic types aren’t likely to also have a career with enough disposable income to prioritize that over the plethora of other costs we all need to cover to survive. So many corporations (*cough* Spotify *cough*) act like artists should treat their work as a hobby and then make astronomical amounts from that same intellectual property.
I’m really proud to keep the lights on with the organized noise I made up. I feel like it’s the best way I can help people. I definitely don’t want to be stuck on the same bar circuit in a decade if I can help it, because it’s not at all lucrative, and being a starving artist is highly overrated. But it beats having to do something I don’t love while I try to work towards bigger opportunities for my songs.
You rock! Thanks for always creating such awesome, insightful content. 🙏
P.S. In regard to silent stages:
I love my amps, but got a ToneX last month (actually, after watching your video on it) specifically to model my 1966 Vibrolux Reverb because I can’t drag it to Australia, and don’t really want to risk damage to it by taking it out. I’ve taken my other modern reissue amps out instead so far, but I see this as a way to potentially make the live show totally consistent with the album sound. And as a vocalist, I’m thinking less stage volume might make it easier to hear my voice. I haven’t used it live yet though, so we’ll see.
That's why power trios will forever reign.
totally agree 100%
That's why I love The Warning. They play their instruments and write their own songs.
Power Trios! 🤘🤘🤘
Hell yeah!
Like Eric, Jack and Ginger or Alex, Geddy and Neil.
this sums it up, for me: The Elwood Blues I know once said that no pharmaceutical product could ever equal the rush you get when the band hits that groove; the people are dancin', and shoutin', and swayin'; and the house is rockin'!
Not a pro, just open mics, solo with guitar, but you are right.
I don't drink but after playing a set I feel really buzzed.
Audience response is like a drug. To me that is the heart of my love for playing music for people.
I play at all-acoustic and full-band-option open mics. Sometimes people use tracks but it is not pro and may be their only way to show their talent if they don't have a band to back them.
At your level i am ambivalent. When you get to a stadium level gig, yea, full live set, people pay for that. I too want LIVE players if my ticket is expensive (lets destroy tickiemaster) but not at the corner bar with 40 seats, no cover. When bar receipts and tips pay the band that is a real thing, as you know.
I have seen Moody Blues and Procol Harem with full orchestra and Keb Mo with solo guitar. Bar players with just a simple drum machine. Street busker musicians as good as any of them (Dovidas). All great.
To each his own if it allows you to play and make a living.
But I understand it is a real situation for those who cannot play solo too. Much like banjo and mandolin orchestras in the last century and movie theater piano players when the 'talkies' came along. Many continued to play but with a new instrument. That may be the future.
Jake would have agreed 🤘🏻
Saw Seal a few years ago in St. Pete, FL. With my wife. She was a complete Seal fan. He had a single guitar player, but a complete band-in-a-box.
We left mid way through. It was essentially Karaoke. Mechanical. Lifeless.
That's sad. I mean, I get that he's not a huge draw like he was in the '90s and probably can't afford to have a string section, horn section, etc. But he can't at least bring a drummer, bass player, and someone to play synths/keys for the other parts? I've seen people play guitar to backing tracks, and I agree, it feels lifeless in most genres.
Seal.
I think he learnt from that...I saw him in Liverpool last year, he had a full band and it was incredible.
I even felt that way with hip-hop artists back when I was in that scene. If the rapper had a live DJ, that made a world of difference than if they showed up with a backing track burned onto a CD
Not a Seal fan at all. I have one CD and I haven’t played it in years. He’s go to do what he has to do.
You're absolutely right on. I've played drums for almost 42 years in many styles of music, and currently I'm playing with a blues rock / southern rock band that has an album of original music (that I engineered in my home studio!) out on all the streaming services. We play locally a couple of times a month and have day jobs. People come to see us because we're 4 guys who rock out and put on a great show. I could load backing tracks of covers into my laptop and do solo gigs on my Vdrums and possibly make more money than with my band, but it would suck without the interaction and energy of real musicians, especially since my band writes original music together. People know the difference and do care.
Hope Clayburn is a trauma ICU nurse who is also a great soul and jazz musician in Memphis.
Working cover band guy here. I gig a decent amount (100+ shows a year in 6-8 states). I’ve noticed the heavily tracked bands in our circuit have been losing crowds while we’ve continued to grow with a classic 2 guitar, bass, drum kit setup. We run tracks for maybe 30% of our songbook (random keys, horns, effects), but the idea of tracking an integral instrument to the band ex. bass is lunacy. People notice and can feel the difference with a band that sounds full and is actually playing live. I think authenticity (in a rock band environment especially) is really important to the overall experience of seeing a cover band. People love the songs cover bands play because of the bands and musicians that created them; cutting out members for a track loses that real experience.
100%, I think you nailed it. Having backing tracks for special parts that happen rarely is perfectly fine. And shoot, if everything you do incorporates some electronic pieces, then great!
But when you replace things that are core and foundational…for profit or ease? No thanks. Even with my favorite bands if they lacked a member would be harder to enjoy. Understandable if there’s unforeseen circumstances, but it feels wrong to think they are merely swappable pieces.
Toan is in the crocs and sweatpants.
Yep. No one wants to carry around $30,000 worth of percussion instruments and horns -- and the musicians to play them -- that are each used on one or two songs in a 20- or 30-song set. That's a perfect use of backing tracks. (To clarify, by "'percussion instruments" I don't mean a drum kit. I mean stuff like congas, bongos, tympani, etc. Stuff that your drummer can't play because he/she is too busy playing the actual drum part on the song.)
God, I hope you're right. I've accepted the fact that the golden age is over and has been for a couple of decades. But I want those who still carry the torch to be able to continue (I'll just quickly go past the 'cover band' thing, I need to adjust my attitude - at least you're playing!). And it not be just trustafarians and really, really poor musicians who still play.
I know what we do needs to be for an audience to work. And I hope those audiences have their bullshit detectors well tuned. If they wanted to listen to backing tracks, they could go to a discotheque. Teenyboppers aside of course, they have been treated like sheep since Sinatra's people paid young women to scream at his concerts. But real musicians, people who want to be creative (even the cover bands!) are precious. I'm past the point in my life where I'd go touring. I had some success in the 80s, but not enough to pay for luxurious touring busses and guitar techs, so at my age the thought of touring fills me with horror. Sure, I'd enjoy it if all I had to do was play but as I said, my success, proud of it as I am, is just not at the level where I'd get big enough audiences to pay to make it liveable for an old bloke. Anyway, I digress. I really hope audiences are spotting the nonsense and not putting up with it. Maybe that's the good side of this cassette and VHS nostalgia, which I always lay shit on? We ditched those as soon as we could, just because it's analogue doesn't make it better! Yes, I know it's workflow, but a little bit of discipline and you can have that workflow with a sequencer that does audio, you just need to set your own limitations.
I don't mean to be disparaging. Cover bands, particularly what used to be called 60/40, used to be the refuge of the same sort of people who want backing tracks because it's cheaper but I get that it's a way for actual musicians to play these days and I'd probably be doing it myself if I were 25 years younger. Good luck with it.
One of the main thing a working-band like yours has going for it is the live musicianship. Maybe I'm not the average live-music-attendee, but personally I think half the fun of seeing a cover band is hearing musicians that are good at their craft and can jam and have a good time. Bring the vibes! And I think the same can be said for working bands that aren't doing covers - being flexible musically is just one of the big strengths of smaller bands - and having all the basses (pun intended) covered, and played by real people is definitely essential to achieving that.
A good example of this is Ian Brown from the stone roses did a tour last year with just a laptop. People who bought tickets were unaware that he was doing this until they arrived expecting to see a band lets say it didn't go down verry well. As the word got out a lot of people didn't go. On top of that the tickets were still the same price as going to see a band. So it was watching someone do karaoke of their own music
"People don't care" - until they do. The nobody cares and nobody will ever notice person in the group what ruins so many things that started out great.
I’m a singer/songwriter. It’s hard t put a band together, t keep it together and t get paid.
Rap artists sing t tracks and pack the house.
Most casual fans don’t care imo.
@@ProbableCauseBluesBand I think this is where the caveat that Rhett provided: Rock/Rock adjacent. Rap and Pop artists don't qualify.
@@rsplines12 People forgot about Milli Vanilli - huge until they were banished.
At the other end of things you had John Mayer selling out arenas for his Solo tour where people knew if was just him and a guitar/piano and had an amazing night.
When I go to a show I want to see a musician behind every sound I hear
Prepare to be disappointed.
What if that's all one person?
@@Orchestructive Are you referring to Steve Hill ?
Preach it cuz
Not feasible for a lot of artists these days. You will be disappointed if you go in with that mindset.
Supporting yourself outside of your music is what most musicians do once they learn the economics of the road. To a young musician, that's a hard pill to swallow. But for a recent retiree like me, it's quite liberating.
My correct decision to do it at age 21 has been reaffirmed throughout my life more times than I could count. Why? Because I don't have to perform to put food on the table. And now I can enjoy performing on MY terms. No contracts, no deadlines, no commitments. I stay as booked as I want and I'm not beholding to anyone. I sleep in my own bed every night and don't live on truckstop food.
You seem to equate silent stage performing to mailing it in using backing tracks. The two are NOTHING alike.
Backing tracks are like singing to the jukebox... or karaoke night. But I assure you, I still play my guitar on a silent stage. The only difference is less gear to carry and quicker setup/teardown.
And people who say gigging with electronic drums is cheating, or is easier, have not gigged consistently using them. Learning how to express yourself with them is a challenge in itself.
I'm not at all worried that live music will ever be replaced by backing tracks. Over and over again, young people see us play and their mouths drop open. Not because we're that magnificent, but because they're witnessing live music up close for the first time. And, often, they approach me during break with all kinds of questions. I try my best to foster their interest. Their reaction tells me the future of live music is bright.
As a full time performing musician playing 5-6 nights a week for the past few decades I can tell you. People do care. They like to see what they are hearing in a live setting.
When many gigs are only paying the same amount of money that I made back in 1978 (literally), it's difficult to justify much. How music (live and recorded) became so devalued in the marketplace is totally heartbreaking. Today's average "fan" will stand in a packed room or even arena to watch a DJ...???!!! It is definitely disheartening.
I'm starting to think part of the devaluation came from the musicians not putting on a special enough show to make people want to see them no matter the price...
Especially over the last decade.
With putting half the show on tracks, we're kind of devaluing ourselves
@@josuastangl7140 The catch is that putting on a special show that gets people coming back these days especially takes a lot of money, time, and effort. Everyone's got time and effort, not a lot of money circulating tho. In an ideal world no one ever has to ever settle for backing tracks, everyone just shows up and does everything for free. The problem is no one is willing to do that, even at the amateur level. And they shouldn't be expected to tbf. No one expects you to go work for free, you shouldn't expect that from musicians either. Too many people feel entitled to musicians work and performances. If you want a show without any backing tracks start making one, stfu, or go offer to learn and play the parts then provide your own gear and show up and play them for no pay. If you can't do that then you shouldn't complain about backing tracks. Or just make your own music, but then normies and hobbyists would find out recording and making and album is just making backing tracks lmao it's classic, so annoying but a classic none the less
@@josuastangl7140Nailed it.
McDonald’s is hiring.
@@josuastangl7140 Most of the audience can't tell if *replacement* tracks are in use. Augmentation and "sweetening" tracks? Yes, because it's obvious there is no string orchestra or African percussion section on the stage, but even then a big chunk of today's audiences don't care - they're too busy streaming their experience live to social media, along with much of the audience. It's more about "look at where I am and what I'm doing" than "this is so good, I have to share it with you." Spectacle sells, so Carrie Underwood had her flying pickup truck; Tay-Tay (on the Push Play tour - aptly named?) had the flying "B Stage" that lifted off and took her back to the main stage; all the wardrobe changes, video, moving lights and lasers and pyro... it's all about putting up an experience that can't be replicated on a phone or even in a home theater. The live concert industry is back to doing dog and pony shows because everything else - the songs, the dancing, the general nature of a performance - is all over social media before the first show is over.
Did musicians do this to themselves? I don't think so. It started when commercial radio stations became less and less relevant to the popularity of a song, artist, or genre. As far back as Sony's Walkman, digital portable players and the record company and publishing company concerns about digital piracy, to the smart phone and streaming. This broke the record company business model. Not having radio to "break" new songs and new acts, not having control and accounting over physical media sales, all new to them. They saw the train coming and decided to take a nap on the tracks instead of working up a new business plan. The result is that musicians are even more screwed than they were back in the good old days.
I never comment on videos anymore but have been a “silent” supporter of yours for years now. I can’t believe the timing of you releasing this video. I quit a good job to give my dreams a go. I was a full time musician for the past almost two years now. It was sustainable right up until it wasn’t and I made the decision to go back to that job with a much better schedule that allows for me to still gig, network, record, etc. Even with that good schedule it’s tough to get past the feeling of “failure” at times. To hear your thoughts on that specifically was very helpful and I had to let you know you reached someone and made an impact. Thanks 🤘🏼
Ps. Totally agree on that mindset being trash.
@brannondurkin9522 I had to make the same decision as you in 1976. When Disco DJs replaced club bands I saw the writing on the wall. I metered that feeling of failure you mention against the reality of being able to make a living, as gigs became almost non-existent. Now that I'm retired I don't regret going to work in the printing & later IT worlds. I have a ton more benefits than I'd have had if I'd tried to 'beat a dead horse'.
Totally get it. Just remember how many amazing musicians have 'failed'. Count me as one of em. With that being said, if you can still make records and play gigs who says it has to be done for a living? Most of the bands we loved growing up would also be 'failures' if they didn't have the record companies marketing them to us. My guess is there are thousands of amazing artists out there who would be 'successful' if they had the money machine of the majors behind them. Maybe you're one of them? I think there will be a lot more incredibly talented 'failures' joining our ranks in the coming years.
@ Very well said, I agree! A big portion is just the right mindset.
While I agree philosophically, if artists of all forms can’t make a living, then the profession disappears entirely. You are being way too hard on artists doing what it takes to survive in a brutal industry…and are just perpetuating the idea that all art is just “art” and you should be happy to get a beer for your efforts.
I am not musician but I have been going to shows since 1979. I have seen everyone from the Eagles to Bad Religion, I can't even think of seeing a band that only using "Backing Tracks". This Dude is F'ing crazy, Most of us do care.... Thanks Rhett for setting the record straight
Well, backing tracks and lip synching for the Eagles now. They’ve sold out too.
Nobody has sold out. You've just become stuck in the past.
I appreciate your words on artists who have day jobs, being one myself, and having other musician friends and collaborators who do the same, we sometimes may question if we’re “real” artists because of it, but having been continuing to work on my music career and develop my skill set, alongside my day job/career for years now, I’m just proud that I haven’t let stigmas or a lack of energy get in the way of me doing both. I feel very fortunate and lucky to be In my situation, and would encourage others to not give up on their music dreams just because they have day jobs :)
I like the "rant" version of Rhett! I would like to see more videos about the business side of music and more videos of actual music making (spontaneous or practiced jam sessions either solo and with other players). Dig your insights!
When whoever posted that says "Nobody cares", they're really saying that they don't care themselves - and that probably shows in their live performances. I get such a kick out of playing live with a band - the give and take between real musicians. I genuinely think that fun and spontaneity comes across to the audience.
I completely understand your frustration. And you are 200% correct. I remember two great articles about how things have changed. One was written by the guy who wrote Louie Louie. He described how making records was to inspire folks (kids), come to the shows which is how they made money. They supported themselves by playing live. Fast forward and it became about selling units i.e. records so the focus was on making the best record you could make to sell as many copies as possible. Completely different focus. And now lo and behold we are back to doing live shows to make a living. When Radiohead put out a record online effectively for free they asked their fans to pay what they felt it was worth. And some jackass from the Wall Street Journal wrote an editorial about how they were ripping off their fans. Stay with me here. His logic? The average fan paid x dollars for the record but it only cost Radio head a significant amount less to print the disc. Complete utter nonsense. The amount of training, practice, sacrifice, and serious real hard work it took those guys to get to the place where they could do what they did was completely ignored. Clearly the writer was incensed that the middle man was taken out of the equation. This needs to happen with the monopolistic companies like Live Nation and Ticketmaster who control not only the ticket sales but the venues as well. The other article was an editorial by Courtney Love. She broke down in great detail how bands back when could make a successful album, and tour, and still own money. It was quite an astonishing piece. I will end with Hunter's famous quote:
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
I have to completely disagree with what the guy said about nobody but bass players care if you don't have a bass player live. The bass player is the absolute most important person on the stage. (Then again..... I'm a bass player. 🤔)
They’re coming for us. We have to stand strong, bother. 😉
The irony of him being a drummer, when drum machines have been a thing since the 80’s, wasn’t lost in me.
@chrismn601 Hahahaha! Yeah. Very true. I used to play with a drummer who didn't want to play to a click track. I told him that I had a drummer named 'Al Esis' who could lay the tracks for him. After a few threats to his ego, he nailed the parts to the click. I then brought in an 80's Alesis drum module to show him who could've done it. 😆
I’m fine with having a bass player if the bass player knew their jobs.
If not you better believe imma back track them myself since hell you gotta be better bassist then me if you’re playing with me.
@@redcomn That statement can cover a lot of ground. More than once, I’ve upset a guitar player by asking them if they’d like me to show them how to play a part.
@@Metalbass1979 I’m not a huge fan of click tracks, myself. But, the threat of a metronome, or a drum machine can be effective.
This is my ultimate pet peeve!
Learning a craft, creating Music, can Never be Milli Vanilli. Music is Spiritual. Even if the general public IS clueless, They DO notice Less power & impact in the music they pay too much to witness
Bring back LIVE MUSIC, before it completely dies!
Agree! We are full time touring musicians. We would LOVE to have a full band and have tried to put band members together, many times over the years. However, we have not found anyone committed enough to make the sacrifices needed or cutting expenses in their own lives to do what we do. We are forced to compete with bands that refuse to charge for a full live band and instead work for beer. When bands start charging for their craft and come together to hold the line, the venues will meet the expectations instead of hiring the cheapest ones they can find.
I'm with you on this, too, Rhett. My era of doing traveling live dates was in the late 70's and all through the 80's. The total touring experience, from setup to striking the gear, along with everything in between was a necessary part of getting good at doing just that and working toward making an OK living at it. But by the time I came to L.A. in the 80s and learned how the sausage was really made, I began to see the beginnings of what you are addressing. Many of us died trying to make it, while myself and others took day jobs, which at that time was seen as betrayal in L.A. But after bad contracts, bad promoters, and bad management, we had to go back to playing because we loved it, and then go to the day job in the morning. Yes. I do sessions for clients at home, but my heart was always from the time I was in elementary school in the 60's was to be in front of an audience. I'm 66 years old now and the phone doesn't ring as much as it used to, but I have no regrets and havn't lost the love of playing my guitars. I'm not complaining, because I had my time in the lights. I didn't make it to the top, but my wife and I survived all that and learned a lot. I'm still teaching kids to play the guitar. My, how things have changed. Thanks for speaking truth, Rhett.
We're seeing Jason Isbell tomorrow night (Antwerp, BE) and we are so glad he's touring with a real musicians - will buy some merch to support them
The 400 Unit is one of the best bands touring today, you’re going to have a great time.
@@RhettShull I got to see Isbell in Asheville unexpectedly, as a guest artist with the Allman tribute band called Trouble No More with Daniel Donato, etc. That show was *amaaaazing* .... Just looked up the 400 Unit tour dates, and of course they aren't coming to the PNW. Most of the things I want to see are too good for Seattle booking agents to know or care about them. I gotta move to the south. Sigh.
I got to see Jason at the Ryman last October, full band, 59LP & Dumble, amazing night
@@RhettShull It was fab! Also heaven for guitar-nerds 🙂
This is great, I'm 31, Iv'e been playing since I was 8 years old. I played in a few garage bands then when I went to college for music, I formed my own rock band, met some of my favorite musicians from the 70's, 80's ,90's. I got very lucky. I got hit with hard times post college when my family imploded, and had to regroup everything. I have a day gig teaching guitar, band classes, GarageBand soon, mon-thurs, and I help with the retail on Fridays for the students or other musicians that need help with decent affordable gear. I still have my band today, Currently working on the next EP for our second session in LA. we've played out of town and state, recorded in awesome studios, and we play live all together. The best advice some of my more seasoned friends gave me was always have something to supplement beyond the band, like what you're saying. It's nice living in both worlds. Nobody said it was easy. Just keep pushing forward, and keep playing and writing music. 🤘🤘 Thank you for being a good voice on this.
Absolutely agree and I am relieved that most comments feel the same.
Once again you've nailed it!
As a local gigging dive bar musician, I saw this coming.
First, in the 70's the union lost the bars to "scabs" (or so the older guys told me).
Then came karaoke and old school DJ's who were paid almost as much as a quartet ultimately driving down the amount the bars would pay for ANY entertainment.
Sophisticated tech followed starting with loop stations and drum machines enabling solo and duo acts to collect the same $ as an actual band.
Now with Ableton live, a laptop, and a triggering device, the pressure to go solo or duo is greater than ever. Bars are paying worse opening fewer slots to bands and they prefer not to give up the space it takes for a whole band.
If a solo act, a duo, a karaoke night, or a modern DJ can get butts in the seats, most bar managers prefer them.
We have pay-to-play around here. Whoever forks over the most cash gets a show and 'exposure'.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver
Yikes.
That is a sad statement on the value people are placing on live music.
I guess I should quit whining about the low $$ and be thankful we get paid at all?
@@markgawry4873 It was the kiddie 'punk' bands who did in the scene here. They 'stuck it to the Man', as in the unions that would have protected and paid them through dues. Thus the union wilted while the club owners smiled and made up crowd losses by extracting cash from WASPy rich kids with 'punk bands' (aka amateurs). Moms with minivans lined up outside the stage door while the 'label guys' with 'artist development contracts' lined up behind the moms ...
@@markgawry4873 Oh yeah, a 'major label' here now extracts 25 percent of its artists' LIVE earnings on the basis that "we develop their albums so we recoup our loss that way."
@@markgawry4873 Oh yeah, and the 'labels' here extract their artists' live earnings on the reasoning that "we developed their album sound so we regain our loss from their live work."
I'm a synth guitar player and I always get accused of using backing tracks. I take it as a compliment as I play everything live!
The reason I've played like this for the last 30 years is when we used to use a backing track it would go out of sync or we couldn't hear it. They were a pain to programme and set up. The only reason we used them in the first place was we couldn't find a keyboard player (there was a huge lack of compitent keys players who could play Chick Corea in early 90's Scotland. If they could, they were already too busy).
When I first played a brass part on my guitar synth at a rehersal the drummer luaghed so hard (in disbelief) he fell off his stool and knocked himself out on a metal radiator. I knew then it was a good thing!!!
Most people don't realise what I'm doing. I'm constantly battling with sound engineers who treat the synth sounds like an afterthought because they don't see a keys player, but it does give the band something unique when people are told it's me playing the keyboards (and guitar at the same time).
I'm not stealing the job of a keyboard player because most of the bands I play with don't use one, but they get one when I play with them. My original music is centred round the guitar synth (Nickjitsu-Hyperreal) and that is where I do occasionally have to use backing tracks. I hate them, but when your playing a modern music show, gear demo or doing a mastercass you can't not use them.
However if I go out with a band, it's a band and not a backing track in sight...........and **** your silent stages!
Greetings from great Britain...long live the guitar synthesizer...its a steep learning curve getting to grips with one...but man it's rewarding...so much so that when I plug into my Vox valve amp I'm kinda underwhelmed...that said I still do it as if you cannot sound half decent on an acoustic or just plugged into an amp you've had it...that said reverb and digital delay are very addictive...The Edge has been an addict all his life..he started out on gateway standalone pedals and now he freebases entire racks of digital gear....he uses loads vintage classic guitars to offset his habit...but ultimately he could use a 600 quid Mexican fender strat and it wouldn't make a difference in the long run...lol....BTW...actually I love The Edge...im just trying to be droll
god I want a guitar midi controller so bad but they’re so expensive…
Why do the sound engineers not see you playing keys?
@@jaydlytning Because there are no keyboards. I'm playing all the keyboards live on guitar using my guitar synth. I'm playing the regular guitar stuff too, so despite telling them and doing a soundcheck, they forget to turn the keys up in the mix. To be fair, it is quite rare!
100%. Nothing makes live music cheesier than playing to a track!
True!
tell that to Buckethead
@@jarrodhrobersonthe difference with him is that people aren’t expecting to see a band, they are expecting to see Bucket Head play guitar. In his position, I understand just using backing tracks because it really wouldn’t make sense to have a full band with him. It only makes a difference if you were to show up to see a rock band, but there’s only a guitar player, a singer, and a drummer, but you hear two guitar parts, a bass, and a keyboard being played.
This isnt the point of the video but you get a c- for the attempt
@@parkerkenney6859 True. It really depends on what people are paying to see
From someone whos been to a number of concerts. Your spot on Rhet. There is a huge presence to having all the members of a band on stage. It's fine to add things that might be hard to cover but most of the time those can be done without. Keep going Rhet. Love your work.
Authentic creativity is called “art.” It’s unpredictable and exhilarating because it’s new.
As an ex hired-gun guitar player, I can see both sides. It used to piss me off to no end to see how EVERY “Top-tier” artist that we opened up for, would be playing to tracks. ALL OF THEM!! We were proud of the fact that we had near perfect 4 part vocal harmonies, but these dudes just pressed play! And every time I asked why, I got the same reason….money.
I get his comment that people don’t care, because he’s kinda right. Most of the people in the crowd were oblivious that there wasn’t a keyboard player, or there were tons of background vocals being sung by no one on stage. Now mind you, most of these were larger festival type shows, but I can honestly say, the people in the crowds were clueless…
Beardyman is an absolute genius Live Producer. He makes and remixes every sound with his voice and throws total raves. He tries to tell the audience every show “I’m doing this all with my voice” and hardly anyone cares. People just want to have a good time.
@ Yup……oblivious
Yeah, noticing is maybe what we can discussed, but it's a bit pointless. I think nearly all of the advantage with real players is how it feels. Modern DAW grid convenience songwriting undynamic performances might never become really alive, but songs that are fuelled by the push and pull of a great band that are used to perform together is all about what live performances are. That came first; before songs on record that people listen to at home.
Rock instrumentation is great because it fits as many people as can be defined and take place in a mix. It works audio wise but have it's advantage in humans performing like expressive humans. The sad thing is the disadvantage of not having as powerful and clean sounds as synthetic kicks and such. I love natural roomy sounding records with very defined performances but I think audioengineering nearly should become more radical to chase that clean and powerful sound programmed music, but with a great focus on highlighting expression; samples with velocity and such.
People don't notice or don't even choose the right thing, but they absolutely love expressive playing. We, on gobal level, just need to fucking kill the loudness war mindset and straightness of music that has sufficated dynamics and minimised the room for expression for a while now.
@ I TOTALLY agree!!! Used to chap my ass that we worked hours on 4 part vocal harmonies, while “bigger” artists we opened up for just pressed play. But I’d still have done it ourselves ANY day…
It frustrated me immensely as a concertgoer when I paid and went to hear AND SEE a band for specific songs that had a killer intro, only for that to start as a cued recording through the sound system. It ruined the mood for the whole song.
It was not until I was 55 before I took up the guitar. I found the time for lessons and I have been in several small starter bands. Now I'm in a small duo (The Adjacents) with a vocalist/keyboard player. We have fun, but here in ABQ it is difficult to make much more than two beers and pizza. I don't play for food, not uppity, just would rather play for tips. After 13 years learning, and continuing to take weekly lessons, I love playing out, love being on stage. That's my payout. It would be better to be appreciated by venues and their managers to point of some level remuneration. We need to buy cables, picks, stage clothes, maybe a new rig. You cannot trade two beers and pizza or #25 split three ways with two other bands because the venue offers that as compensation. This post you offered is not the solution, in my mind. We are duo and make good music with the proper selection soul, blues, and rock adjacent (get it The Adjacents🤣) to the music work and entertain the audiences, and make us happy.
The Adjacents, The Replacements 😊
@@glennquestor funny🤣
(4:27) "This industry has basically always been set up to benefit the people at the top." Isn't this the way EVERYTHING has always been set up?!?!?!?!
That’s anti-symmetric!
Since the beginning of humans my friend!
@@CarlosTVilla well that would be impossible because for the most part homo sapiens lived in fluid dispersed bands of hunter-gatherers.. More likely since the outset of sedentary stuff-hoarding aristocracies, which is not long ago.
I'm with you on this for sure. I've always felt this way about the biz. Every show should feel like a "SHOW." Like theater. A performance! That includes gear choices, wardrobe, when you walk into the room until you walk out. Start to finish.
As a five member band from a small town out in the middle of nowhere Wa state, we LOVE playing live. We fully agree, when people, even out here, come to a rock show, the showmanship of five guys playing instruments live is definitely is part of it and they do care! Thank you for always speaking truth and supporting / inspiring playing live music for the passion of playing live music.
My first concert was Van Halen in 1984. My ticket cost $13. I was a concert junkie in the 90's. For the price of a ticket today I want to feel the energy you bring not a recorded vibe. People play off each other, there is a beauty there that I seldom get from just music or a famous person on a stage.
That would be a $40 ticket today, and unless it absolutely sold out, Van Halen likely still lost money on the gig. But back then VH would have made millions from album, and single sales and radio play, touring was basically loss maker to help promote the album. The relationship has reversed in the new century, music sales, basically streaming, basically count for nothing unless you're a Taylor Swift or a Lady Gaga.
and guess what, Van Halen figured out how to perform songs that modern bands would use backing tracks for! They took sacrifices in regards to the instruments they would have to drop in order to execute it live (guitar, etc.), but that's the point of a semi spontaneous live performance.
They also wrote music with the intention of performing live...
@@DylanPank71 is Van Halen still in the Guinness Book of world records for the most money made on stage?
I saw Dire Straits in '92, full nine-piece stadium band, for $32. In 1997, Mark Knopfler solo comes through a small hall with his little pub band ... tickets $79 and $99. Yeah, right , NO.
Sadly, he is right. Giant Popacts are lipsynching with autotune and people aren't even mad. People used to get so angry and would want their money back when they found out it was lipsynch.
Just to clarify I think this sucks
The funny thing is the biggest pop acts (who can afford it to be fair) are going back to live bands, or at least a mix of both. They want to give people a good show. Acts like Harry styles, Chappell roan, Billie eilish. Gives me hope.
People are used to it with pop acts, hell they even expect it: you're now seeing criticism of some 'bedroom' pop acts like Gracie Abrams who are just 'standing there playing a guitar or piano' instead of big choreographed numbers or Billie Eilish who's 'just' singing. It's bizarre.
Just a slight correction, if they’re lip-singing there’s no need for auto tune and yes I agree it does suck
lip syncing and having the full band on tape are two completely different things.
@@RobertSaxy yeah its one or the other
They Might Be Giants and Ween both started as 2 guys and backing tracks on tour. They both eventually had full bands live, but that's when it was sustainable. You don't have to like it, but teh reality is that a lot of people will just not do it if they can't make it work financially. This isn't the 60s and 70s when record labels let bands gradually develop and the band actually pocketed everything from touring. This is the era of 360 contracts and the label milking every dollar from the band, plus the issues w/ticketmaster and live nation, not to mention clear channel owning so much of the radio in the US.
If you can get on the road with a full band, awesome. If it's you doing a one man show, hey at least you're out there. This video feels like you're really just gatekeeping what musicians should be, and frankly, fuck that shit.
This guy gets it.
Hy rhett. Thanks for the View. I total agree with your words. Special with the amp and Look on Stage Thing. I Love to hear that in world of "Clean" stages. Rock'n'Roll and keep up the great Music and Videos. Greetings from Germany.
Great point Rhett. We do notice the lights, thematics ligned up with the music of the artist, having a live person there who can interact with us. That all creates an experience for which I am willing to pay. Saying it doesn't matter and people don't care will only detract people from coming to the show.
It’s part of the “I got mine (I don’t care about yours)” mentality. As musicians, creatives, we have to support each other a bit more.
The other side of that is bands around here. You go to a joint to see three bands ... but all three bands are in each others' bands just with a different singer.
Nothing bores me more than seeing an artist with backing tracks. One step away from a jukebox.
Love the dynamic of a full band
Alternate perspective... I front a band a no-name band, in a small town, in a rural part of the state. I want nothing more (as a musician) to play with a live band. But our talent pool is microscopic. That means we get what we get for the band. Essentially, whoever shows up consistently, is willing to learn the songs, and has a little skill to work with, they're in the band. So think that thru... let's say the lead guitar player is quite talented, but determined to play like Eric Johnson on acid 83% of the time. Or the drummer refuses to stop including crazy fills that knocks off the song timing by 1-3 beats. Or the bass player wont... Or the singer don't... And on top of it all, there are only about 13 places to play in a 2hr radius. Point is, without real cohesion for "the music" a band isn't a band anyway. It's just a group of people playing the same songs at the same time, but pulling different directions. So if you want to propel YOUR OWN music forward, that band-of-misfits approach just doesn't work. Yes, I'm all about "collaboration" but not all "collaborators" are created equal. In my situation, the best way to propel forward my vision for my music is probably as a solo performer w/ backing tracks and a full PA system; with the sincere hope that players will hear me, like the music, and want to join my band. Your assumption is that a soloist-with-backing-tracks will further cheapen the music scene (race to the bottom) and displace real musicians who deserve work, purely for economy and convenience. I suppose that may be true in a place like Nashville, but not so much out here in BFE. Out here, playing with an invisible electronic band that I actually created in post to match my vision for the music, sounds like a pretty damn good idea. JM2C
"Point is, without real cohesion for "the music" a band isn't a band anyway."
This is an excellent point.
Can I join your band? 😂
@@BeefNEggs057 sure, if you can make the commute every week for practice, LOL !!!
You're not alone my friend. I live in an area where there are a lot of playing musicians, but they are all playing with 1,2, or 3 bands already. It
s definitely not easy, but that's not to say to just skip it, not try and play with tracks.
@@bigsmash6349 OMG you are SO correct about THAT ^^^ I'm a one-band-kinda-guy and don't even bother trying to deal with players who have 3-5 other irons in the musical fire - their attention, allegiance and priorities are in a continual state of flux, and scheduling gigs is always a complete crap-shoot because anything can change for those "attention-compromised" players chasing bright shiny things - JM2C on that LOL !!!
I agree that people definitely care. I always love the vibe of having friends on stage!
The other downside that would come with using just backing tracks is that there's no space for improvisation. You can't extend that section the crowd is really into. You can't make that intro a little longer for the crowd tease. The most disappointed I've ever been with live shows is when they play a 1:1 with their recordings where other than seeing them I might as well have just played the album
Well said, Rhett. I love live shows because of the spectacle of live performance. Concerts are a whole experience. If I want to listen to a playlist, I'll sit in my bedroom and listen to one.
I agree with Rhett regarding the point of cost savings being really a bad motivation of using backing tracks and replacing amps. On the other hand: I just started using pads and additional vocals on backing tracks because we don’t have a keyboard player and more harmonies are just great. Like that, I just have more artistic options.
Yeah like, many artists don't have infinite budget and many venues don't have support for an entire orchestra so you can enhance the live experience, it's supposed to be a show in the end. Of course, I still think it's very important to prioritize live playing and use live players cause that's also the charm of the live experience, if I want to hear exactly what is in the album I just listen to the album, so it's a fine balance to not race to the bottom but also enhance the experience
You said it best Rhett; people care. They do, and they are not coming to show to listen to the music. They are paying to experience the music. Experience the energy in the room, the excitement of the band playing, it is all very palpable and that dude has no clue what he was talking about.
I think if you're putting virtual band members on tracks,
then you can't complain that "people just don't seem to care about live music as much as they used to"
@ facts. True passion and artistry is a dying art and we need as many committed people keeping it alive as possible.
You’re simply wrong if you’re claiming the majority of people care. The numbers don’t lie.
Artists like Taylor Swift aren’t really live and yet they’re the biggest around. Clearly the tens of thousands paying good money to see her night after night don’t care.
Sure, some people do, but they’re in a niche, which isn’t going to make for a sustainable career for the vast majority of bands.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 Taylor Swift has the most intense marketing campaign we’ve ever seen behind her, I don’t think that’s a realistic comparison.
Many of the biggest touring bands play without any tracks.
Like who?
Even bands I love like Muse are undoubtedly using tracks somewhere in their live performances.
I could name a few but they wouldn’t be the most mainstream ones on the whole.
None of this would matter if people actually still cared about music. Sorry to piss in anyone’s Cheerios here….but the music industry has been destroyed and there is so much music being created by so many people that aside from the huge legacy bands that have been round for decades, the average person doesn’t care about music anymore. There are certainly very few people who seek out new music or get excited about new artists. I get no pleasure saying this as a guitarist who’s been playing out since the ‘80’s, but the art of making new music has been destroyed. There are many debatable reasons for this, but a saturation point has been reached when musicians are manipulating their art to try and fit any conceivable venue they can get paid to play and that is driving a “DJ” mentality in playing live. If society eventually shifts to be excited about music AS LISTENERS again….I will love it. But right now……the audience isn’t listening……….😢
The saturation point was reached and exceeded years ago. My son plays music and he’s worlds better than me but neither him or any of I friends are out new music. They are listening to Led Zeppelin and Van Halen.
100%. It's so tough for us musicians and writers to take because we all grew up being inspired by music to make music of our own. Not only is the music market oversaturated but it's become some kind of background app on someone's phone. Most young people don't throw headphones on or a good stereo and listen to somebody's record over and over again, reading the liner notes and getting absorbed in it like we used to. It's all playlist streaming and quick, short content like Tik Tok through phone speakers. And very few adults past the age of 30 actively seek out new music which is sad because there is a LOT of great new music out there. Most people in that age bracket listen to the sound track of their youth and only spend money on shows if it's one of those artists. Furthermore any 'new' musical success seems to be a Nepo baby, a Disney or TV star, or has the financial backing from rich parents.
The audience is still listening (and watching) but they are listening to a wider number of musical outlets. It used to be people only listened to a radio, then albums, then cassette tapes, then MTV and finally CD's. It's no coincidence that the music business changed when the computer/internet age arrived. All of a sudden people had many more outlets to consume music but they didnt just quit listening. They're just not getting it from a very confined few outlets like decades ago. There are so many places to hear music today and so many more people creating music today. The business is watered down with so many musicians and so many outlets to hear music. Live music is a bit different but it's still impacted by the conditions of the music industry. People went to live events in the past in great numbers because of how limited their music heroes were heard or seen. Nowadays you can hear or see almost anyone, anywhere at anytime with the click of a mouse or tap on a phone or tablet. I would argue that music listening is at least as great as it ever was but it's spread out so far and wide it might feel like there's less but I dont think so.
@@PennyAuctionI make music nearly daily but, honestly, I don't listen to new music at all. Really any music these days. When I do, it's something random on Amazon music, usually something I know. I've tried - I've saved a bunch of albums as a kind of pseudo record collection and only listen to those, forcing myself to listen to every album as if I'd bought it and only listening to something else as a replacement but it doesn't work. I just don't enjoy music much any more, as anything more than background. Can't tell you the last album I actually cared about.
@@DanielC__ I disagree. General public nowadays mostly just listens to noise. Anything that requires attention or creates emotional response is discarded. It's all about creating simple hooks after one another with no attention span. Actually listening to music requires effort which modern people are not interested in.
People don't go to those live shows for music anymore. They just want a visual show and be part of the crowd. Music is in the side-lines.
As a solo metal artist who plays rock shows with vocals and a track and sometimes a drummer when I can get him I can’t help but agree that yes people do very much care. I got the idea to perform this way because I saw rap concerts on UA-cam and thought as long as you can translate the hype and energy it’ll be okay. And yes it is okay to a point, for example now I refuse to perform with my vocal track backing me because it ruins the experience and turns the set I’m trying to perform into a side show and not a rock show. I’ve performed with guitars vocals and tracks before and I’ll be honest it felt weird and unless you’re a crowd member it’s very easy to get thrown off cause you’re having to follow a track that is being over powered by a guitar but when I’ve performed vocals drums and tracks it’s not the same kind of issue. Eventually I would love to do full band stuff again because I believe it would be something very special and also because people notice and from a sound and show perspective it’s where the energy comes out the most. Yes the money saving from being solo is nice but also music is one of those things where just cause something is the in way of doing things now doesn’t mean it’s gonna be that way forever.
What’s magical about live music is that it’s being made right now in front of you. You are part of it as the audience. Some backing tracks, ok, a click track is ok. But when you have whole sampled musicians, it’s not live music anymore. Still though, play live anyway you absolutely can. I’ve played solo gigs to backing tracks before, and it’s OK, but it’s not the same as having the full band of musicians with you.
When he described the performer as someone in their crocs and pyjamas, with nothing but a laptop on stage, he basically described a DJ 😂😂😂
Not all DJ's there are some amazing artists out there spinning vinyl or running DAWless setups performing amazing live sets.
@@RhettShull facts, but there are also amazing performers who use nothing but digital means to promote their art. In the end, it's not that the audience couldn't care less, it's all about the music. If you can use your gear to your benefit, then more power to you.
True! 😄 also, why can't I see Rhett's reply here
Don't talk about Jacob Collier like that 🤣
The market will decide if people care or not. There's an audience that doesn't care.... and there's a audience that does (Anybody watching this channel probably cares). People pay to listen to DJs spin a record and are okay with it.. it's not 100 miles away from that. Rhett talks about a friend that goes and plays music on his own terms is honorable.... but someone else that does it in a way that he doesn't like, is in a race to the bottom, even though they're still playing their music and might be able to support a family. People.... decide with your wallet.... if it matters to you, don't give your money.... if it doesn't... enjoy the show.
Exactly.
Bingo
This is the correct take.
The market will figure itself out.
If the show is good enought, great.
Playing everything live without tracks is simply another way to enhance the experience.
Believing that all a DJ does is “spin a record” is a mentality preventing many musicians from putting on better shows. Go watch a Carl Cox show and tell me all he does is push play. Arrogance is an obstacle to understanding.
@@JumboDubby Obviously not, great DJs are worth a lot.
Reading the room and seemlessly bringing the appropriate vibe is a massive skill.
But live music is a completely different category.
I don't think @Zappalrl's intent was to talk down on DJs.
What is so depressing Rhett is just how endemic this $$ profit disease is in our country. Boeing used to be the best of the best at building airplanes, but slowly financial heads took over the company and decided to move to Chicago; ever since it's not about making great aircraft by great Engineers, it is about profit, ever higher profit margins. Intel... they got to resting on their laurels and same thing, instead of relying on the Engineers who designed your best products, they let financial heads run the company into the ground.
Referring to Uncle Larry, music is run by financial folks who demand it sound a certain way because that worked in the past and they are not musicians, it's all about the profit, THEIR PROFIT. If you try to compete they use their obscene money to buy you out and shut you down. Why compete when you can just put someone out of business?
I could go on and on, but suffice to say we live in a world where money has poisoned every well of creativity, passion and equitable living.
…..and that’s why Airbus has overtaken Boeing in manufacturing quality commercial jets.
The point everyone misses, is how the FED has destroyed the value of the dollar throughout its history.
welcome to capitalism
Well, that what happens when capitalism reigns. It’s unavoidable in the end. It’s a shit “societal” system. It only serves to make the rich get more rich and the poor to give their riches to already rich ones so that they can get even richer. If you doubt me, look at the world around us and tell me how this isn’t the case.
as Randy Newman sang: It's Money That Matters (in the USA)
I agree. Not only does it matter, but it is the whole point. I see live music to see people play music and interact with each other as well as the audience. I can listen to the music at home on my phone if I just want to listen to the music.
I have a 'band', well, a 'project'. I started it because I wanted to choose the songs I will play (and sing; I sing so I can choose the material, too). It was a Robben Ford-style blues project, now it's a 'classic southern r&b' project (think Dr john, The Meters etc).
In both scenarios, I have a minimum 'product' for playing this repertoire and some of my originals in the same vein. And that product is a minimum viable lineup of me (vocals and guitar), a bassist, a drummer and a Hammond organist/keyboardist. never any digital auto-triggered bells and whistles (that's okay for Def Leppard and say modern r&b artists with album samples for effect etc).
And the challenge I have at my age (47), and with the people I hire to play with me is availability - there are a lot of family/kids commitments in my age demographic now, and most of my band members-as opposed to me with a day job-live off music, so will understandably prioritise a $500-1000 wedding or corporate gig over my $150-250 small bar gig.
Knowing this, I know that my commitment to not 'reduce' the concept to something that doesn't resonate live will limit how many times a year the project will gig. And I have to be cool with that.
So, if I A. Don't have the full lineup available for a gig and/or B. The money on offer will make the gig run at a loss, the gig doesn't happen.
What I HAVE done in the past is have different 'configurations' of the band for different gig settings, so:
1. The 'main' band (4-5 piece): danceable funky classic R&B for 'bigger concept' gigs. [Repertoire = Dr john, the Meters, Earl King, Jon Cleary etc]
2. A Hammond trio version: some repertoire crossover, but more jazz-influenced repertoire for small/more intimate 'front bar' gigs. [Repertoire = some tunes crossed over from the main band set list, + Grant Green, McCoy Tyner, john Scofield, all that]
3. A blues power trio: [Repertoire = some tunes crossed over from the main band set that WORK in trio format + flat-out I-IV-V blues in the vein of Jimmie Vaughan, SRV, Freddie King, Gary Moore etc].
I realise my scenario is way different from someone who is just doing original pop/alt/r&b whatever, but I work to make my band sound and feel great for different settings, as I REFUSE to do solo gigs, whether it's acoustic or with tracks.
For acoustic in particular, I feel that the entire repertoire needs rearranging so you don't 'notice' the band missing, and I just won't dedicate any time to doing that for what will still likely be a less-than-exciting gig outcome. Like, when bands have a solo artist as a support act, I usually cannot wait for them to finish; as a punter, I find it terribly underwhelming.
Hey folks. Check out Fil at Wings Of Pegasus. He’s currently calling out famous “artists” for using backing tracks and pre-recorded vocals. Don Henley/Eagles, Celine Dion, Taylor Swift. Those fans DON’T CARE. They just come for a “performance”. Live, backing tracks, autotune, pitch correction, miming. Their fans are being duped, and when Fil points it out they accuse him of hating the artist, and that they don’t care anyway.
It’s disgusting. We have to fight it.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 fight it how exactly?
@ Don’t buy the fake product, whatever form it takes. Shout it down when you recognize it. Tell others that it’s happening now, they may not know.
I get
your frustration, but how exactly do you intend to fight it? Unless people en masse start to care about it, musicians from the highest to the lowest level are going to keep doing it, because it's a practical solution. I feel at the moment, for people like us who do kind of care about it and miss the way things used to be, we're just becoming old men shouting at clouds as the expression goes.
@@SeekerGoOn2013 I don't buy it, and I do tell people about it, for what it's worth. But,as pointed out, millions of people don't care.
You haven't backed up your feelings with any facts or data. Younger people are going to open mics with karaoke on their phones and their friends love it. Touring bands are playing for meals and hotel rooms. That's one step above busking. And homelessness. Solo artists are playing with machines that harmonize and add drums. Folk artists are playing with foot things that add bass drum to their songs. This makes it really hard for us naked solo artists to compete. Reality sucks sometimes. Take it or leave it or be soooo good you can't be denied. That is a very high bar.
@5:48: "....these monopolies being able to set the system up to benefit only them at the expense of the artists...."
I was around in the 70's and 80's. It's always been this way. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
So right, Rhett! It is harder and harder to make a living any more doing live music. I hope things change with the leadership change in our country because people are having a tough time just making ends meet. Even churches are filling in their musicians with tracks. However, there is nothing like it as a musician when you interact with other musicians and that is where the best creativity is born! Canned music is also a killer of improvisation. I like to hear new music and not covers of old tunes that are exact copies of the original. Sure bands that do covers live like The Analogues are cool and have a place in music doing exact copies of the Beatles, but they go to fantastic extremes to make it all live! Love it! It wouldn't be the same using a track!
I totally agree Rhett. Playing live while having to play along with pre-recorded tracks takes the life out of the music. I went down that road for a few gigs and absolutely hated it. I also hate hearing recorded tracks at a live show. I have worked a day job my whole life and have continued to enjoy playing and making music.. I always wanted to do it full time but as I got older. (I am 68 now!) I was grateful that I didn't have to depend on it to live. I have had much more freedom in my creative journey.
A large amount of us live in rural or smaller communities where we are VERY limited to having access to other musicians and almost no access to hirable musicians for live gigs long term like more than one or two shows, and backing tracks are our best options to get the ball rolling for our music. Yes we WANT to have a bass player, and a live drummer on stage, we just don't have the option. To say it's wrong, or a race to the bottom because they are not on stage and you want to play and share your music and an audiences won't like that is just an oversimplification. What your saying is not wrong when you say focusing on the "wrong mentality" by focusing on the money, but your lumping ALL of us in together under using backing tracks and ONLY addressing this with one throw away line at 10:42 seconds into a 11 minute video is not ok. It's not right and you should know better. The "stray bullets" fired on this take are negligent. This should have been in the beginning of your "hot take" in my small and humble opinion.
Just look at your comments and how fast every diehard rock musicians ran to exclaim things like "Great Rant! Thank you Rhett. Let’s make live music great again." Or another example, "Yeah! Completely right. Real musicians are the thing. Amen."
I have fought to make using backing tracks for newer acts and musicians trying to transition from a solo act to a full band ensemble, and the amount of backlash you take from the old guard for using ANY backing track ever in a live show is harsh and tough to overcome.
The technology has come so far with backing tracks that playing live shows, even as a rock/metal/blues/guitar musicians you can put on a good show, and it can be used to go and recruit the right band members and still be growing a musicians skills in a live environment.
Thanks for listening and you make some of the best content for modern musicians and guitar players out there. Your work is appreciated. This should have been at the top of the comment, but I think it make my point a little better, being at the end.
agreed, this is the most privileged blues dentist coded video I have seen in awhile, but then checked out this dude's channel and he seems to have that mindset.
Fuck yes!!!…awesome reply..:I mean he’s in Nashville so his view is obviously skewed when it comes to available pool of amazing musicians…
Couldn't agree more. I'm in a busy band in Ireland and still use an amp pedals on a circuit where most guys are using modellers and in ears, I'm regularly asked about my rig by people afterwards. People still care. I need to keep it real for myself too, otherwise what's the point?
Totally agree with the rant - people want to see the music unfold from the stage and they don't want to see someone press play on their laptop. I played a gig last night, and I'm at my day job this morning (albeit goofing off watching UA-cam videos). It took a while to be able to make both work and music fit into my life, but it was totally worth the the hard work to make it happen. Now, work is work, and music is joy and I can love making music and performing without worrying about paying rent. Keep up the good work!
I think it’s going to depend on your situation. The band I’m in, I think having only one or two members makes a good stage presence difficult. My solo industrial project with mostly synth instruments, though? It might almost look weird if I did a live show and had multiple keyboardists onstage. I could run around and sing, play violin, or play guitar or bass, depending on the song. Plus, not having to coordinate practices or shows with others is a bonus when I’m busy enough as it is.
Edit: side note: it’s hard to find metal musicians where I live, especially drummers, so I’d rather start doing shows with backing tracks short hand and try to get more members later, maybe even BY doing live shows and saying “we have an opening, if anyone’s interested.”
As a performing artist running her own project, I get both points of the conversation. Even though I would never have stems on stage, I get why people do it (I also think it's more acceptable in certain genres, like pop). This is an indirect result of musician's income being reduced to two main veins: touring and merch sales. Since album sales (which now count as merch, because physical copies mostly sell only at shows) aren't a thing anymore, and streaming doesn't pay, artists have to find a way to maximize profit wherever they can. This is not so they can become rich, but so they can afford to survive, record (and then do it again), while they are not touring... It really sucks, and I will keep trying my best to bring a band on tour. However, what has happened so far is that I tour solo. It's not ideal, because it's more demanding to carry the entire show by myself, and I would prefer to have my music better represented (the way it's supposed to be), but it's just completely prohibitive to bring an entire band on tour. Personally, the only independent musicians I know who can get away with this is people who are married to one of their band members, so this helps with overhead, as they can share costs. If people want to see full bands, then they need to be prepared to actually support touring bands, and demand Spotify to pay artists!
Unfortunately, you can't discount the tastes of the audience. Once upon a time, every town had dozens of live music venues all playing original music, but the audiences shifted over to DJs in the 80's and just kept going more and more in that direction. Today, mainstream audiences simply cannot bear going and listening to songs they've never heard to experience new music. They just don't want to do it.
The only thing I care about when watching live music is hearing musicians rip on their instruments. I sold merch at a theater for bands... The bands that got above average reactions and sales were the ones playing their instruments hard and well.
Dawless Live set dudes here mad that we get lumped in with Ableton Session bros thinking we just hit play 😭
Y'all are a whole another category. I recently got to see Look Mum No Computer live and it was a great show
Dawless united here ❤
Agree. I’m old. And, I’ll add to your case, Rhett - I’m always surprised to see (usually) younger artists just assume that they can and should be entitled to make a living playing their music. This was just never the case when I came up, even the bands I knew that were signed to a major in the heyday of the 80s - if they didn’t already know, they soon learned that nothing is a guarantee. At the local level I sometimes see younger bands wondering why everyone isn’t buying advance tix for their show…this was just never a “thing”.The fact that there are alternate venues like house concerts and stuff is great, use those. The bands I love from 70s/80s/90s that succeeded were driven and worked their asses off for little to no dough in hopes that that work would pay off someday. A badge of honor you might say. They presented their thing in as proud a way possible, and all my real rocker friends had day jobs - like you say, that’s a realistic way of surviving if you’re only interested in being a real / original artist. Hey I know there are scenes I’m not involved in that do justice to their music with tracks, some of course use it super creatively. But I think the discussion is about real bands here, and so…yes, lame to forgo actual players.
I saw JJ Gray and Mofro in Douglas Georgia a few weeks back. Tickets were $75.00 a seat. There was an opening act with 6 members. JJ carries 8 plus himself.
Best concert I've seen in my 58 years on this planet.
Not sure he made money that night.
Imagine going out to watch someone singing in a karaoke
That's all pop and rap artists. It's where music is now. Name your favorite band. There's dozens of pop artists that are bigger that are 100% doing karaoke.
I can do that at the bar down the street and not lose my ass in ticket and parking fees.
@@danielclark612 I’m aware of where music is now and how are dozens of pop artists bigger than bands/artists I like, but that doesn’t change anything. I don’t want to sound purist here but to me instrumentals are equally important, especially in genres I’m into, but I get that are people just interested in the singer’s presence and their interaction, that’s just not what I’d pay for
It’s not just the cost it’s the headache. Bad attitudes, lazy during setup and tear down, unwilling to take feedback, too freaking loud with no feel, inconsistent performance, drunks, stoners, and skirt chasers make having a band miserable. The egos and know it all attitude is unbearable.
I won’t join a band because I am not spending my free time messing with talented a$$holes jeopardizing my hearing and impacting my quality of life to play to people that pay attention to 15% of what you do. I can play in my music room with a backing track and enjoy it just as much. If I can do a solo show with backing tracks at a Marina a couple times a month and actually make money using backing tracks I’d do that.
Were I lucky enough to be able to tour on my own music I’d hire a backing band if I could and use backing tracks when I can’t. A trio would be the max I’d try to keep together as a unit. Two guitarist and a keyboard player. Split the bass lines. Have the drums programmed or hire a recommended local drummer.
I’m too old and too jaded to deal with the drama of a band especially when venues don’t pay any more for a a band than I made as a roadie in the 80’s and 90’s.
A band is a family, whether functional or not. And I can suspect that the same conditions (money, too much selfishness) are starting to make real families impossible too.
Did you ever see Ed Sheeran live during his early career when he was a solo act, just his acoustic guitar and a loop pedal? He created the backing on the loop pedal live. Amazing performance.
He still does that now. Some songs not so much, but it's still a key component of his live shows
Well, it all comes down to people's individual boundaries. You could argue that creating a backing with a loop pedal live, is a skill in itself, and I would personally agree. But some would say even that's just cheating with technology.
I agree with you. I’ve played music since the 70’s. I currently play with a 3 piece cover band that also does some originals. We also have full time 3 man support team that help with setup, sound, and lights. We have a 4th musician who is currently on an extended leave due to medical issues. We are and have been profitable since the beginning. We use no backing tracks, no auto-ttune, nothing like that. I won’t say we’re making a living because this is a second income source for all of us, but we ARE profitable. I believe you should do it for the love of music. There’s an old song called Souvenir Bottles that has the lines “Remembering last night and four men standing there, making something out of nothing, making music out of air. “ There’s nothing like playing live with good musicians. Your enthusiasm will be picked up by the audience and it enhances the entire experience. The $$$ is an added bonus.
Agreed. I understand the dilemma of reproducing the sounds from a recording and not having the budget for enough musicians to do so. But to me, the recording is a creative ideal of the song, the live version doesn’t need to be that. Personally, the only music and vocals I want to hear as an audience member, or offer to an audience as a performer, are what is coming from the stage live at that very moment. That is the magic of live music! I would rather hear a rearranged or leaner version of a song live than to have tracks covering what’s missing from the studio version. I’m a musician who has played in various styles and types of ensembles. That’s normal to me. I also know that to be employable I need to be able to work with tracks. But to your point regarding streaming, listeners are not invested in the music. They don’t physically invest in a hard copy and listen to all of it over and over. They simply stream the songs they like when they want to hear it and that’s it. Too many have a fleeting relationship with the music and musicians they like. So in order to appease the (too low?) standards of the audience, and make shows more profitable (because audiences don’t know or don’t care), musicians will be replaced with tracks. Unfortunately, it’s become an accepted norm. Acts at all levels of the industry do it. Because it’s more about “the show” than the music.
Also I may add: You've got to make your Live Experience different from your traditional tracks.
It's important to bring something new to your live show: An extended version of a song, a different solo, an engaging audience singalong bit, etc.
This is part of the magic of a live show.
Boomer rant ..As a survivor of touring in the 70s my mind is scrambled by all of this. Like many others in the industry we were a band who had fire in our bellies and the ambition to knock the audience sideways from the first chord. Just lads with big amps, instruments and voices to storm the beaches. People came to see a band and many had their own favourite members of that band due to the music they made. They knew more about the bass player than we did but he made most of it up. We fecked around and It made it all fun and that showed in the music. We constantly challenged the songs themselves which is something a digital track can't do. What I'm saying is that if people pay to see a band and only get two people with tracks, which isn't a band, then its feels like a plastic fake. An Ableton track can't drag you up off the floor when the world is rough and put you back together like a band can. Loyalty meant we made money on gigs and records which I know isn't possible now and I feel so sorry for working musicians who deserve better. End of boomer rant.
I saw your comment and agree. There's too many people phoning it in and not doing the work. And the sound definitely suffers. If you been going to shows for years you hear it plain as day. And we need to be supportive of other musicians. Less competition more community, it elevates everyone.
For restaurant gigs it worked great for my duo.
My keyboardist was an amazing jazz improv soloist and jazz piano teacher at a college.
I played jazz guitar with basic improv skills.
Also vocals were important…….
The interaction we had was great.
The jazz tracks on band in a box are real players.
The live part was how we improvised in the moment.
A small P.A. With instruments pluged in directly.
Jazz with tracks? That sucks
for a lot of us, the only thing holding us back from the success we hope to find in music is time and resources. we don't do this for the money. but we love what we do so much that, if it is possible, we want to make a living doing it.
I am the only guitarist in my band. not because I don't know anyone who can play our music, but because we don't have room in the van for another musician and we don't have the resources to pay another musician. tracks are more for filling out the sound to bring the full song arrangement to the audience. it also allows for time coordinated show elements that require us all to be on a click. running digital rigs cuts down on cargo and opens up a lot of real estate on the stage. running tracks gives us the freedom to bring sonic elements to the table that would be otherwise unattainable.
he's right. in general people don't care about you having tracks. what they do care about is his your show made them feel.
I hope you didn't intend it this way, but your take on being an artist and having a career outside of music being the way to go kinda feels like giving up to a lot of us. playing shows and sharing our music with the world is the only thing some of us want to do and it's all we've ever wanted. searching for ways to be able to sustain ourselves is a conversation that needs to be had.
I get the point idealistically. But if you're a touring act unless you're still a baby band supported by your parents, maximizing profit has to be your main concern. Otherwise what's the point of touring? Having done it forever, sure the thrill of playing and sharing your music drives you, but if there's nothing left at the end of the tour to pay your rent or mortgage or feed your kids then it's pointless.
Bingo
Just gonna prefire a comment here. Some people don't need musicians. Ever seen a dj? That threads comment is right in some sense. The people don't actually give a shit if you're running a track for bass for example. If you're a big name and get hired on as a feature then maybe 10% of people care. You vastly overestimate the need for integrity in live settings. Not to mention for smaller artists hiring people to play instruments just to appease a vocal minority of purists is another barrier of entry that detracts from the actual creative process.
Alright i reached the end. Yeah, telling people they should essentially pull themselves up by their bootstraps (boomer take) instead of gaming the system to actually focus on your dream is crazy coming from a self sustaining youtuber. I think theres a difference between cutting out your friends for a buck and not getting pressured in to hiring some holier than thou session guy because the one or two guys who come up to you after the show to comment on your board and amp setup thiink you should be more "authentic". Fuck that.
Boomer here. I belong to the people that care (and not because I want to talk about their gear, I want to see them play live. Otherwise I could go to a disco or play their music at home). I never would go to a show where a lot or everything of the music is coming from prerecorded tapes. I really can't understand why people go to such events. But I know, a lot of the younger people are different in that regard.
This comment slaps. You should go read the whole thread.
@@Mullewarp You are not the audience anymore. The bands you like are still playing the same ways they did in the 70s, don't worry.
@@Orchestructive I know. But that doesn't mean I have to like the way it works today.
As the sound man for a classic rock 3 person band who are very good players, most of what I notice is people probably under the age of 40, don't know the genre or care that a band is even on stage playing, they gather in a group together and talk to each other for the entire time they are there, the music is simply just background noise.
The older crowd that did grow up with the songs on the radio or who had the albums etc. Do very much appreciate and engage with the music and the band. We do about 30 gigs a year, definitely not for the money, we split it 4 ways, all have jobs that provide for our families.
The younger crowd in general (there are exceptions) just barely care, and are just there because their friends are there, and they have a lot to talk about. Honestly its amazing how much and for how long they can talk.
Tell that to the vast crowds of young people at the venue where I work every night! Young people care about live music; they might not care about your style or genre, but assuming young people don’t care about live music is harsh. How many songs are you playing that have come out in the past 2-5 years that they know? You do sound for a classic rock cover band; it’s in the name. It’s older, it’s classic. People who were alive when the music was released will always be way more interested in that music.
As a solo act who plays guitar and sings covers, I have had several folks over the years thank my for not having backing tracks in my shows. It would be fun to have some tracks backing up iconic songs, but I don't want to be tied down to a set tempo and or key all the time. If I'm in hour three of a four hour show and someone requests a song in a key that's too high for comfort after three hours of singing, I'll often lower the key on the spot. Maybe the crowd is amped up and I want to speed up a slow song, I have that ability. With backing tracks I feel locked in. And lastly, I enjoy playing live with other musicians. We can feed off of each others playing and vibe. And yes, I do have a full time job that supports my playing solo gigs as well as two other bands. We don't tour, but we do travel for our gigs. Thanks for the rant, Rhett.
Absolutely agree! I grew up in an era live music in the 1960s and 70s. It was organic and there were moments that went beyond, they were magical. How we changed speed and rhythm and volume added to the magic. I loved jamming at the end of a song when the singer would say one more time and we knew we were ending it. We were in the moment. That is being lost on the synthetic, musician-less acts today. In my opinion most of them aren't worth listening to, they are a waste of talent and time. Last night I just saw the Magical Mystery Doors. They were incredible young people playing their instruments to the fullest. The did the music of the Beatles, the Doors and Led Zeppelin. They even did mashes. Real live music. What I live for...:)
Hey Rhett, love your channel. Let me start by saying I’m 58ys old and have played music off and on my whole life. Mostly the weekend warrior kinda stuff. Sure,in the beginning I had the dreams and aspirations of being in a band that toured and hit the big time,but eventually realized my path was not in that direction. Anyway, to this day, I am in a local working band. NRPrhyme, and we consist of 5 total, 4 musicians and a singer. I have several friends whom I have played with over the years and I’d say the last 10-15years the evolution of playing live has changed.
There are so many different aspects, theory’s if you will about how to achieve success in music. Whether it be locally or Nationally! Song writing or performing. I’m old school and still love the magic of music when you’re lucky enough to find a small group of musicians that are talented enough to create a moment that gives you chills during a performance! I still lug around amps,pa gear, etc. But the sound of everyone playing in unison on stage is like no other!
I believe that talented musicians are a lot more difficult to find in a small town per se, and I believe that’s why a lot of singer song writers use backing tracks,etc. And if that path can lead them to success, far be it from me to judge them. I’m sure you know the struggles of a small town musician trying to form a band to play out live! Not easy my friend. I have several friends who perform with a host of backing tracks that make a little more money! But almost everyone of them say they would rather have a band. But sadly, we make the same money as a band we made 25years ago! The venues in our area budget their entertainment accordingly, which means we are lucky to get $100 a piece for a 3 hour gig!
But in short, I most definitely agree with you! Music is heading in an uncertain direction! Hopefully the small town, local musicians and bands will continue to keep up! We all need music in our life’s, in some way,shape or form. So don’t give up the fight just yet, keep on keeping on! 😎🎸🤘🏼