No Pun Included's Board Game of the Year 2022
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2023
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BGG Review list - boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/17... - Ігри
"A pusher is someone who is good at pushing Elaine" got me so much 🤣
Same! That killed me 😂
(and Elaine? 🤔)
Yeah, that was a brilliant set up and delivery. Never even saw it coming.
I'm also here for the Elaine train. 👍👍
I'm trying to figure out if Efka did the whole Elaine-skeleton intro just to set up that punchline.
that zoomed flashback on Quintin's turmoil while facing defeat was priceless.
Hope all is well with Elaine and excited to see her back when that time comes
What a terrific summation of what a great card game does.
Maybe I'm just too desensitized, but when games like Warhammer, League of Legends, MTG, etc all exist the art here seems pretty tame in comparison.
🤷♂️
Just because it exists, doesn't mean it's OK. It simply means that companies know that sex sells, so they push it. Do you want your wife (if you even have one,) daughter, (if you even have one,) friends, co-workers, etc. dressing that way. If you have to apologize to someone for the imagery in a game, if you have to make some sort of excuse why it's OK, if you know you're making people uncomfortable, it's not OK. People do not dress that way, except for in games. It makes no sense for someone to say "my bikini" is my armor. Warriors did not dress that way. It's just that the artist wants this look. I'm glad he called it out, because it's not a friendly image.
Boardgames are usually when I actually do judge a book by its cover shamefully. I just cba playing games that don't have amazing Art. It's sad ik
Mtg art is considerably different than it used to be. There's definitely a different design aesthetic and different design goals in modern MTG art.
Loving Elaine's new look
I loved her deadpan humor as usual ♥
I thought her performance here was a bit bare bones.
I think she did some whitening on her teeth
Pfff..I think she looks drop dead gorgeous
Wishing Elain a swift recovery! Great video as always.
Pushing Elaine killed me!! 😂
Also, love the new hairstyle Efka, you look like the lead singer of wholesome Canadian hardcore band, Fucked Up 🤘
You guys crack me up so much. 😂 Love it!
Getting Hopper from Stranger Things vibes from Efka with the haircut
I'll take that as a compliment.
Guards of Atlantis 2 is my game of the year 2022. We have a group of about 8-10 people with 6 of us playing it at least once a week. On thursday it will be my 17th game in GoA2 with 1x 2v2 and 16x 3v3. We love it. We never tried it online, so I'm one of the lucky few with a consistent gaming group.
Btw noone of us thought about names or graphics until now. Not sure if I should bring that topic to the table
If everyone is already enjoying the game, no reason to bring it up.
That opening shot almost made me fall over.
I don't actually think this is hypocrisy nor a double standard, but it's kind of funny that Aye Aye is disqualified for having names and artwork that could be hinting at WWII Germany and Italy, and then giving the title to a game that is literally about WWII Germany and Russia.
I guess it's the difference between studying history so you don't repeat it and saying "Hey, that history everyone wants us not to repeat? That was pretty cool, eh?"
Cringeworthy artwork was the reason, not the names.
@@KingCommaAndrew Other than that huge white dude whose name is a homophone for "Aryan"?
@@Anondod projecting much?
@@billable1861 I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Sucks I missed out on this game first go through, definitely snagging it on their 2nd.
Can’t agree more! This game is amazing!
My first impression is, blimey, you need a massive table to play this.
The board isn't 'big' at all, it's no more space needed than many other games.
I'm so glad Guards of Atlantis 2 is getting this love.
I am looking forward to reprint campaign for GoA II. Thanks for covering it!
Been waiting for this one! 😁
Great to see you give a kinda niche title a spotlight like this, especially before it returning to Gamefound soon! Problem for me is mainly player count, and that I own the KS version of Skytear, which delivers quite an amazing MOBA skirmisher experience while needing less players for that. Regardless, Guards of Atlantis 2 sure deserves as big of an audience as it can get!
Got a pretty good offer for a copy of Guards of Atlantis 1, so maybe that could be a step into the system without having to shell out big time on it. Would you still recommend that or is in totally overhauled by Guards of Atlantis 2 in your opinion?
You could retrofit a good number of the improvements in GoA 2 to GoA 1. There are some things like improved clarity of wording on cards, any rebalancing, the hold cards, handicap cards, et al, that would be harder to retrofit.
But for example, the rule NPI mentioned about sitting out a turn on death; for that I absolutely would bring in the GoA 2 rule. Similarly I'd bring the GoA 2 rules for how the game ends, and how players are rewarded for kills.
It is worth mentioning that NPI's chief complaint about the game is even more relevant for GoA 1, than it is for GoA 2.
Thanks for answering in detail, helped a lot! Will wait for the new Gamefound campaign and see then if I feel like I wanna get it!
Looking good!
Surprise pick, one I was hoping to play this year but wasnt able to!
I've played 30+ irl games of GoA2 and if you've got 6 or 10 friends/players, GoA2 is easily the best game of the year for '22. No contest. No puns needed. But those numbers are necessary in order to get the best potential play experience out of the game. All other player counts give an often much less-than play experience. But for either 6 or 10 players, there's nothing even close to the level of team play, individual awesome, excruciating decisions, etc on offer in the hobby right now.
We just started doing a limited draft (randomly choose 12 of the 22 characters for a 6p game with each team having 2 bans and 3 drafts). This does mean, like all other MOBAs, that to have the best play experience, everyone at the table needs a better-than working knowledge of all the characters and that takes time. But if you've got a steady 6 or 10p game group, this is the game to go all-in on getting, learning, and playing.
Bit surprised at the claim only moba players will appreciate Guards. Our current group of ten Aye Aye players has three moba experienced, the rest dont know the acronym. The design won people over through its gameplay and made players that only ever play whats in front of them research heros in between game nights. The challenge is rounding up the three or five other people, for sure. To claim you can only entice moba fans sounds like a failure to shake up the pitch.
Very much agree with this. IME people love this game. Maybe just don’t open with the word MOBA
Right. It's a team skermish game for €110 that plays up to 10. Its card play heavily reminds me of gloomhaven and no one has mentioned that! A number of action cards that are tied to your health-Action cards that have multiple actions on them and can be leveled up.
Well if they have never heard of mobas they might just be moba fans in the waiting. And this was their first one?
These games are certainly not for me.
I really enjoyed this video. It made me sit up and say "Beep-beep, Beep-beep, yeah!"
Very similar to Skytear. I’d like to see a comparative review.
awesome to see you play Guards Digital in this video! (at min 15:04)
Where to play Guards of Atlantis online?
How did you get Skeletor to appear for the video?
The gunslinger that's ordering minions about looks more like a soviet commissar.
The effort to find offence here really felt like a stretch.
If you are looking for a good team game, try 'The defence of Procyon III'.
I really really want that teddy bear behind you!
His name is Bobo. We found him about ten years ago on a very cold winter evening sitting on our fence. He was frozen stiff. We rescued him.
Ah. Another one of those games I wish I could send back in time to 17-25 year old me.
Looks great. But I would never get it played
I love your reviews!!!! They've helped me a lot. Just bought Gaia Project cause of you!!! BTW, are you going to review Hegemony??!?!??!
first time here.. but loving the energy just few minutes in :D
Amazing game!!!
I have watched this three times now and I just now realized what eye eye meant 😂😂😂
So sorry for your loss Efka. Oh and a bit sad Elaine has died also.
I've already played it though...
I didn't grab the Frosthaven issue. Did NPI help work on development of Frosthaven?
Yes
They wrote one scenario for it, I believe. So they weren't core designers, but they still influenced the product to some extent.
13:14 The early contender for PotY (Pun of the Year)
If you mean 13:08, absolutely 💯
You got me again!
Have you tried Aristeia! ?
If you want something similar but easier then Skytear is a good shout
I actually like moba style board games. I didn't know of any other than Rum and Bones though but this looks like a much more thoughty less piraty less dice chuky version.
Have I lost it or did your channel use to have a review of Honey Buzz?
loving the look!!
Yeah, I was knocked out by the Kickstarter-only nature. I do love Moba's though, I just don't know if I could ever convince my friends to play it. Usually, I don't actually play complicated games, preferring elegant and strategic ones.
The game will convince them for you, don't worry. It's that good.
GoA is definitely elegant and strategic. You can teach it in five minutes. It will burn your brain though.
Why does youtube not show. me any of your videos?? I swear, I have to look for you guys, even though I’m subscribed
Who knows! The algorithm is a mystery. Hit the notification bell? I do it for the channels UA-cam chooses not to show me.
The game is weather machine
The buzz cut suits you m8! Great video
If Guards of Atlantis II is even close to as good as Undaunted….I am going to go follow a gamefound preview page real quick.
Oh no! What did you do to Elaine!
I’m worried, where is Elaine 😮
So I’m no way am I trying to be inflaming here… but what is everyone’s take on the art in this?
Nothing jumped out at me as being overly egregious, and this coming from someone who went out of his way to give his Blood Rage minis actual clothing.
It’s definitely skimpy on the one character, but I found every character to be pretty varied and diverse all told.
I was slightly confused at this as well. Something was implied as being "obviously" there, yet I am not sure what. Maybe nazi imaginary? (not sure if I read this right) Woman in uniform reminded me of a warhammer 40k imperial guard copy and that red haired knight looked like it was copying Arthas/Lich king from Warcraft. Woman in white boots sure had a erm wide spread pose I guess? And yeah battle bikini. So that one I do see.
I mean, I'm sure you're aware that 40k is a concious invokation of facism because it's a parody, right?
@@NoPunIncluded Well I've gotta admit I am not that familiar with WH40K lore. Used to paint and collect Eldars during my teen years and I do know of the other armies too, sure. I guess I've never seen or thought about it as anything more than a miniature game about equally powered species at war.
kotaku.com/resurgence-of-facism-forces-warhammer-to-remind-fans-im-1848089843
I also do not get it; I suppose I am just ignorant to be honest. I see nothing wrong with the art, just another thing for people to be offended about. Which is also fine... I mean no one is forcing you to buy the game.
Have you tried Skytear ?
Yeah, it's okay, nowhere near as fine-tuned or interesting as this.
I haven’t played this but I did really love Skytear over the quarantine
@@NoPunIncluded AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE PERFECT REVIEWERS! :(
@@MarkoVujnovic I think my problem with Skytear was that I played it way after Guards of Atlantis and could only think - this is fine but it's not Guards of Atlantis.
@@NoPunIncluded That's fair. I imagine I might have the same reaction in reverse. But honestly, my main pro-Skytear argument is that the creators are really all in on community engagement and building a global competitive scene (which I do not engage with, because I have a 2 year old, but I appreciate it exists!). Whereas I can't even buy this game right now even if I really wanted to. So that's a bummer.
Where exactly is Elain. Did they separate or something
Elaine is undergoing some medical procedures. For more details, you can find this audio update on our patreon (this one is free to listen to): www.patreon.com/posts/i-broke-my-face-77545845
@@NoPunIncluded Oh no! I wanted to have fun with the whole skeleton bit but this is so sad. :( Hope Elaine feels more herself soon. Crappy situation but at least she can look back and say "I stood up for people" and not just "I did a really stupid stunt for tiktok views."
And then I thought that was it, and there's the rest of it! I just want to send you guys a huge hug and join you in cursing our frail human bodies.
I played Potato-tier Dota for a while and though it was fun I can't imagine doing the same game as a boardgame.
Can you play this two player and does it suck that way?
You can and it doesn't... but it's very intense and not the ideal way to play. 4 player is a lot less overwhelming. But in a pinch, yeah, it works.
Efka, have you played Ascension Tactics?
If yes, how did you like it?
I have not, sorry.
@@NoPunIncluded Maybe it will be the MOBA you are looking for?
What about Battlecon game? It looks like you would love it!
We reviewed it on our podcast. Yeah, it's pretty good, maybe a bit too unwieldy.
@@NoPunIncluded I did not know you had a podcast!!
Had! It's on hiatus since last year. We are working on relaunching it.
@NoPunIncluded Have you all tried Exceed? It's by the same designer, and I'd certainly describe it as...wieldier.
It's basically like BattleCON, but the attacks are simplified (one card, no Start/End effects), and the ante phase is way more developed...in fact, attacks aren't even played until someone *chooses* to "strike" on their turn. So instead of a "no luck" puzzle where you essentially make one huge decision each turn (which is interesting! But...a lot), Exceed lets you maneuver and hedge your bets, subtly (or sometimes dramatically) shifting the decision matrix until someone decides they have the right advantage or the right read on their opponent...or perhaps are just ready to fold, if taking a hit now means losing less in the long run. It's a surprisingly different experience, full of deduction, mind games, and risk/reward, and it's one that I enjoy a lot.
(And did I mention it's just cards? Two tuckboxes of character cards and a 9-card board is all you need. Both of the game's interconnected resources are based on discarding cards from either your hand or Gauge/"super meter". It's a really clean design. Alright, I'll shut up)
@@shelby142 Battlecon is amazing... at least the couple times I've actually gotten to play were some of the most interesting gaming experiences I've had. You're not the first person I've seen suggest trying out Exceed as an easier-to-table version... guess I really should try. Where would you suggest starting on that system? I looked at what was available and got lost pretty quickly... none of the IPs mean anything to me so I couldn't use that as a guide either.
Efka, why are you reminding me to get a game I can't buy... I've been wanting this game so much since my group is super interested in it. But I have to wait for the gamefound launch notification.
Undaunted! ye ye!
Elaine has lost weight, and you have lost hair!
Did you ask Arty if he or his artist were going for a facist vibe? It might have been good to see what their reference material was before semi-labeling them as invokes of this content. Some folks may be a-holes like the goat publisher with the ok frog, but Arty has not come across that way.
When you said that she was an Italian Fashionista, I was sure you were going to mention that she had a brown...coat.
13:07 subscribed at this part
Ummmmmmmm... hi... Elaine...... {dialing 999}
Sometimes you can tell in the first two minutes if a game is for you.
@13:08 hahaha
Elaine's awfully quiet, isn't she? 😆
Luckily, Undaunted is facist free.
(Seriously, though great work with reviews in 2022)
So is GoA too
The Arien player board has the ram's horns on the headline artwork, so my mind went straight to Aries. On second look, maybe these are seashells? Either way, "Arien" is a bad word for rhyming, to put it differently.
Has Elaine had a haircut? changed her make-up? there is something different, can't put my finger on it.
You don't recognize her because of her hat.
You may want to investigate Roman numerals. They are rather new. Only been around for a thousand years or so…
ze goggles do nosssssing!!!
Thank goodness 😂 I watched - dreading - to see if you reaaaally were not playing a joke… but yeah GOTY is truly amazing :)
atlantıs look like INIS
I hope GoA 2 advertises itself as "Not NPI's GOTY 2022" in the future.
Great review, good memes, spicy takes, I'm here for it! All the best to Elaine!
Great as usual
So, can we safely infer that Elaine left Edgar because of his new hair cut? ; )
Edgar? 😂
fyi, it's Efka.
@@oxide7 Kefka?
Okay Walter White 😅
For those who are curious, the designer has spoken about the sexualization issue a couple of times at least (response in a live video, viewable in the first Update in the Kickstarter, and a BGG forum post titles "Female Character Design"). In the forum post in particular, he comes off as more dismissive than I think he intended (if I'm being generous, and taking his response in the video). At the risk of putting words in his mouth, the TLDR version was mostly that, while recognizing it's subjective he didn't think the art stepped over the line, and couldn't have made changes at the point he became aware of the issue due to having already created the assets. He also apologized to anyone who wouldn't take up the game over the issue. The "dismissive" part was that his suggestion in both media was to just play another character and that he didn't find continued discussion of the topic productive (again, being generous in interpretation, he said this because he doesn't have anything new to say on the subject-- hopefully he wasn't trying to say that ANY such discussion of representation was useless).
It did put me off a bit, and that's as someone who is a big fan of Wolff Designa, but it comes off in total more to me that it's just not something he's put a bunch of thought into and a teensy pinch of defensiveness, filtered through someone whose work doesn't include any sort of media/marketing training, alongside coming from a different country that MIGHT be less cued to these issues anyway. I'm saying all this not as a defense for the company, but just expressing how I processed all of this myself.
I think he came off as extremely dismissive, and intentionally so.
I have the first version, and I like it, the artwork certainly has the same issue but is easier to bring to the table with the "it's old" excuse (I mean, it's not that old, but it looks old). When there was a KS for this second game, I was very interested, the mechanical changes seem good, and the larger range of characters was very attractive. I hoped the problems in the art would be, in a newer iteration and after comments about these art problems on the original game were already made long ago and so would have been very known to the designer/artist/publisher, solved. After all, they're remaking all new art, so incorporating feedback would be easy. But no. They kept the same style choices and made more of them.
So I looked at the KS comments and BGG forums to see if there is any discussion on the topic, before trying to start a new discussion myself. And there already were plenty of that. And reading it gave me a very very clear impressions that they're fully aware but just don't give a darn and are perfectly happy with the style they decided to go with.
Sure, there were some "it's too late now since most of the art is done" excuses, but in this case there were plenty of earlier notes from them about the 2nd edition before starting the crowdfunding, so surely there was time to get that feedback and pay attention to it before the art was mostly finished, if they wanted to. And, again, that feedback was there for the original game long before the 2nd was an issue, so when making the new art it's not that they weren't aware of the issues (which in general becomes a less and less plausible thing every year for anyone not living in a sealed cave) but rather that they decided to ignore them.
Which, fine, they do have the right to choose the art style and art direction they want. But that's a choice, and an informed one at that.
Sure, maybe they assumed nobody else would care so it'll be fine to go ahead, and got a bit more backlash than they expected. But that's, again, them deciding that they don't care personally and don't see a problem, so just taking into consideration possible impact on the number potential backers.
Which is why I personally decided to not back the KS. Some of it for the art choices, but also a lot of it due to the responses and the attitude from the designer/publisher.
@@tigriscallidus4477 It's not that "play another character" is weird, it's that it misses the point. In this context probably intentionally.
The issue isn't a cosmetic problem with a few specific characters. "You don't like axes? fine, pick a character with a sword or a spear" isn't the issue.
It's the general choices and art direction that decided (focusing on one of the topics) it's fine and wanted to have some of the women characters have sexualized images (and more than you'd think, there are plenty where the main image is fine but some of the cards... aren't). When giving the artist their direction for overall style, and individual characters, for at least some of the women there either was an explicit "make em look sexy", or the artist sort of did that since they figure it's the "classical fantasy art style" and instead of receiving feedback with correction notes they got a "great, cool" with no comments. It's not an individual artistic preference, it's a statement, whether it was made explicitly or just embraced implicitly.
And this art doesn't play in a vacuum, it happens in the real world, with real world context. Ignoring those multiple sexualized women characters, who are supposed to be competent fighters rather than sexy models, since these are just a few options out of multiple others, is ignoring the forest to just telling people to go around the few trees they may not personally like...
Plus (this one admittedly more specific to the sexualized art and less as a general stand-in for other issues like the quasi-fascist imagery) if the art issue affects one group substantially more than the other, then telling people to just not use characters with the issue is limiting options in one group over the others. "Just don't play the characters with overly sexualized art if you don't like it" is pretty much akin to telling people "Just don't play the women characters, there are plenty of men fighters to choose from". Which is plenty bad all by itself, but worse when you consider that the target of it would often be people who actually wanted to play a woman character, just to be told that the available characters are not for them...
I wonder if they did anything around the point on 17:00min mark ? O.o Didn't see this video on the KS page :D
You and Nick from Brothers Murph must've lost some board game bets or something. Either that or someone is going around shaving the heads of board game content creators in their sleep!
Creator Spotlight on BGG is currently Shear Boardom Table Talk... Coincidence?
Elaine wouldn't let you get a word in. Very disturbing LOL
I subscribed and supported the channel back in the day due to the review of guards of Atlantis 1. I have played the 2nd edition once and I didn't notice the issues that you mentioned. The game I excellent and deserves more attention. On the flip side I avoid playing ww 2 games because it's a sensitive part of the history and I don't like remembering that in my games.
What happened to Elaine????!?
that is entirely incorrect, please listen to the update.
www.patreon.com/posts/i-broke-my-face-77545845
Has Elaine lost weight??
Maybe I'm missing something, but as much as I agree with your critiques of the choices made in the art of "II", Undaunted is a game where one player has to play as the actual Nazis. This is something I can't help but notice people talk around a lot when talking about WW2 games and this game series in particular. As much as I wish game makers in general would get their stuff together in this department, playing a somewhat problematic character seems like a step up from using the actual factual Nazis as the skin for "team blue", and their decision to try and scrub or abstract some of the iconography, while admirable, doesn't change that.
For what it's worth, there's a strong case to be made that Frosthaven is a 2023 game - preview/review copies and some backer copies were distributed in 2022, but most backers only got the game this month, or are still waiting for it to arrive (probably next month, though it would be foolish to insist that current projections are going to be right given the history) and general retail isn't expected until something like Q3...
Why is #frosthaven on here
You have to listen very closely for the reason.
"I don't want to go down to the basement. That is where the incels live." Had me rolling. 🤣🤣🤣
Did Elaine lose weight?
First! And what have you done with Elaine? 😆🤣🤔
What do you mean? She's right there.
@@PadHicks haha I was waiting for that!
Listen to the audio update on Patreon site for details.
Nice!
Elaine, have you lost weight?
Game’s got furries in it… wish I could buy it
Oh no , Imagery inspired by real historical events!!!!
😂😂 "go back to the basement" - that made me LOL - thank you for tackling another important topic. 🙏 Another excellent review, love your work as always. ❤️