How To Use A Sharpening Steel with Master Bladesmith Bob Kramer
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Bob Kramer demonstrates how easy it is to hone your knives.
www.cutleryand...
This method and angle is ideal for both Japanese and German knives including all Zwilling cutlery. Keeping your knives razor sharp is easy. Zwilling is proud to partner with "The Master of the Blade" -- Bob Kramer. Bob Kramer created his original artisan knives on his own studio workshop. With a relentless pursuit of perfection, he has forged the best raw materials into some of the most beautiful and sought-after cutlery in the culinary world. - Навчання та стиль
Makes it look so easy!
My Grandpa was a butcher when he was young. He learned to hone a knife, a skill he used at home for the rest of his life. He did it with the steel pointed out, in one hand, and the knife pointed out in the other. He loved to do that. The sound of a knife being honed is almost music to me. When he died, his knives, which he’d had since his butcher days, had very thin blades. Not much left of them. In those days, once you finished your apprenticeship, you bought your own knives to work with. He used them about 50 years.
kitty62862 absolutely beautiful. If you love your tools your food will show.
I actually came here for a very similar reason. My great uncle was a butcher and passed away about a year ago. I inherited his knives, stones, and honing steel rod and was looking to learn to properly use them. I've always really liked knives but never had a good quality kitchen knife. One that I particularly like is a 12" curved Victorinox with a rosewood handle and what appear to be copper or brass pins. I plan on sanding it down, giving it a new coat of lacquer, and putting his initials somewhere on it.
You can do it however works best for you and the knife doesn't care - outward, inward, or downward. As long as you use the proper angle and appropriate pressure. And yes, the sound is definitely distinct when it is done right.
I've tried others who have taught how to use a steel hone but had no luck getting a good edge. Your video taught me how to get a razor edge. You are an amazing teacher.
FANTASTIC Video!!! I just followed you and I learned it in 2 tries. I had the angle all wrong before I saw this video. Now my kitchen knives are as sharp as new. It was the angle I was using a much larger angle
Working in a restaurant I cant put my honing rod on a table all the time so I'd say it's better to eventually learn to hold it in the air. Great video by the way! :D
Thank you for this excellent, thorough explanation and demonstration, exactly what I needed. Like some of the other commenters, I was using the wrong angle.
This is excellent. 4-6lbs pressure is way more than I usually use, but I'll give it a try. I hone 'butcher style'--knife and hone in the air, blade pulled toward me. Maybe 6 strokes a side. I've done that 40 yrs or more, so Kramer's 'anchored tip' style seems impossible to me but I'm sure it's fine. I once asked Jean-Georges Vongerichten (how's that for a name drop) why he did likewise. He shrugged and said "It's the way I was taught."
Recently I've added two 'refinements,' the first of which I've never seen anyone else use: I reverse hone just as if I were stropping a straight razor, say 4 strokes a side. And sometimes I ever strop on an old oiled leather belt. "Strong is the power of suggestion," Yoda didn't say, but I (at least) say it makes a difference--in fact, I think that when doing the paper test, you can hear it.
Great help just waiting on my vintage postal scale coming 👌
Yes, that was a quaint old-fashioned thing for what was otherwise a modern kitchen. And for those of us living in the 2020s, his "4 pounds" is about 2 kg.
@@rosiefay7283 Here in the UK, now we have Brexit - we want to use pounds and ounces!
Great video, it was very informative. I always thought you honed a knife at a 30-45 degree angle, now I know better.
I do a 22 angle
It depends on the shoulder of the knife and the angle you put on the stone every body's different ,but one thing you should do is light strokes when people hit the steel hard your just damaging the knifes edge
@@luketexas yeah I’m sure it’s exactly 22 degrees as you’re whipping the knife up and down on the hone
Sharpening and care of cutting tools is an integral part of the maintenance for cutting tools to work properly as a tool. The other is having the proper cutting tool for the job it is to perform, there is a multitude of cutting tools and standards of maintenance and sharpening for a wide variety of them.
So useful. Thanks for the advice!
Thanks for this! I am recommending this video to my own customers. Hope you're well, and good to see you making videos. Tinker Pearce
An angle of 12-15 degrees against steel will not work on a blade whose edge angle is greater than 15 degrees as the steel will not actually engage with terminal cutting edge. After 33 years working on the kill floor of large (up to 1500 cattle per day) slaughter houses, I disagree that most people use too little pressure, especially if they have little experience. If your steel is actually engaging with the terminal edge of the blade the force is concentrated on only .002 -.004 of an inch when steeling which means a few ounces of pressure translates to at least several tens of pounds per square inch of the actual cutting edge. A sharp edge will actually be damaged and/or be prematurely worn by the steel by heavy pressure, especially when using a serrated steel as shown. It takes a while for an apprentice butcher to learn to take it easy on the pressure and focus on the feel of the knife edge engagement on the steel. A sure sign of excess pressure or too coarse a texture of a steel is a frequent need for the need to use a grind or use of a stone on the knife to keep it working. For a well sharpened knife, the steel should only straighten the very edge in a burnishing effect.
Absolutely agree. 12-15 degrees is quite an acute angle usually reserved for harder Japanese steels over 60 on the Rockwell Scale. You can't (or shouldn't) be using a honing rod on hard steel as you risk damaging the edge. Softer western steel is perfectly suited for butchering and multi-purpose home kitchen use because it won't chip if it hits bone and can be kept sharp on the go with a honing rod. Because it's softer, a more abtuse angle is usually applied to the edge to help with edge retention, something closer to 20 degrees. I also agree with you with respect to pressure. The contact area of the edge of a blade vs a honing rod is tiny which makes the point pressure huge. Only light pressure is required to straighten the edge. I've watched a few of Kramer's videos and have found questionable advice with respect to edge maintenance on a few of them.
He's talking about very hard steel used in high quality kitchen knives, which are probably not ideal for slaughterhouses and probably not the same as what you use. Not saying either is wrong - different knives (and different steel) for different purposes, and different sharpening methods.
@@UMepher then Bob is still wrong as you shouldn't be using honing rods on hard steel. That's one of the reasons people new to Japanese knives end up chipping the edge. They treat them like the soft steeled Western knives they're used to using.
@@KiwiPokerPlayer ⁸
Today I bought a sharpening steel and on the package it says to sharpen a knife on "20 degrees" .
Perfect info. Thanks.
and I love how you didn't talk about a hone after the fact 12-15 degree angle the lesson to learn
I run away real fast when I'm done stealing a knife.
Now that's a sharp comment 😂
As you should 😁 thus allows you to steal another day.
Awesome
The use of your senses can help you alot,,, your feelings, your hearing, your sight,
Professional (paid, im not great😂) meatcutter here. From my experience by laying the blade directly on a fingernail with no added pressure, that blade should stick into the fingernail and be unable to slide off to either side with no added pressure. If it stays in place its sharp enough to cut cleanly.
I dont mean slide as in a cutting action but rather a scraping action. If its able to easily scrape out its dulled
25+ years ago I bought one single Chinese made 9'' kitchen knife, one cleaver and a 12'' steel. I have only used the steel and still it slices wet napkins. Original edge at the handle still straight with rest of the blade hardly worn. One person user not heavy duty. I bought sharpening stones just to see but never used them
That was great! I am looking to pick one up in a day or two
Is it possible for the rod to wear out and become innefective?
Yes, overtime the steel hone will wear out after many many uses. It should also be stored away so it doesn't get damaged or nics put into the steel. However if it does get worn out, damaged, or nicked up, because it is rounded you can use an area on it that still works effectively. If you know how to use them properly they will last you a long time.
I have had the same one for the past 10 years, I use it all day every day (I work in a boning room)
unless you misuse it, or use it an absolute ton, you shouldnt have an issue
P.S quality of the rod makes a huge difference here too
The angle should be depended on the angle of the blade sense every blade does different angles and if it’s a single edge or a double edge
Yes that is correct. Every manufacturer is different and the blade angle will vary.
One video : "Most people use too much pressure. Don't do that, use light pressure!"
Other video: "Most people don't use enough pressure. Use enough pressure!"
light pressure doesn't mean no pressure
How does steeling in that direction straighten out the edge? It seems it would do exactly the opposite, bending it over more. Steeling in the other direction would, I should think, "straighten" anything that is bent, no?
You're absolutely correct. Even this "Master Bladesmith" fails to understand what is actually happening during the use of that steel. Only a plain hardened steel rod is truly going to "straighten" the edge and only if you pull the blade in the opposite direction of the edge. And frankly, that doesn't work very well on a knife that is probably hardened to somewhere in the mid 50's rockwell.
Fact is, very minute amounts of material are being removed and THAT is what is actually sharpening the knife. The steel is abrasive. If he were to take a perfectly clean steel, steel the knife and then wipe the steel with a clean paper towel, you would see metallic particles on the paper towel.
A steel is a maintenance tool. It's meant to take a knife that has a sort of sharp edge back to very sharp.
And while you COULD use the steel for every level of sharpening, it would take hours, if not days of swiping across a steel to sharpen a badly dulled blade.
@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 yeah ok I guess literally all the chefs posting videos about this on the internet are wrong then
@@thatguythatdoesstuff7448 The knife he is honing is hardened to a Rockwell of 61. I use a knife for a living and disagree with just about every point you made except the third paragraph. Google Bob Kramer and watch some of his videos from MIT. He knows about knives on a different level. He also sharpened them for a living before he started making them.
I've wondered the same, and tried both. Even though i don't understand the reason, the direction as shown in the video does seem to give me better results though.
@@jenswurm I would contend that's because this explanation of what "steeling" does is completely wrong.
All the experts here lol
I just bought my first enoking knife. Is it best to keep it in the box when I’m not using it? A
I need a "postal scale"? What kind of scale is that and where do I get one?
I've seen so many people just slap their knife around on the honing steel without thought or put the sharp part of the blade right on the steel. I'm not even into knives but it hurts to watch.
Side note: I know some people who are really good at honing can go really fast and it might look like they are just hitting the knife around but that's not what I'm talking about
Why would you use less of an angle than the angle of the blade?
The angle of the cutting edge on his knife is 15 degrees.
Good Video!!!!!
Came to learn (kudos to Bob Kramer), stayed for the comments! 😂 🔪
This guy knows how to stroke!
Nic job
I have a sharpening steel, I got with a SOG knife I bought, and that really works, it's just a flat piece of steel, and I am looking for a bigger one. I don't know what it is called.
Very useful video indeed
Good way for a beginner to learn to steel is rod down like this but it's overall slower than in the air. You should be trimming and burr shifting at a greater angle than the one sharpened at with lightiish even pressure through the strokes. This will help with not dishing the blade in the centre. A ceramic does a better job for this and can be used on any steel. So basically what you are trying to achieve is an edge slightly flatter than the one before. So you take a freshly sharpened knife at 100% say 15 degrees and steel it down in 10-20% loss each time until you get to maybe 25 degrees as an example. By this time it will be fairly round and time to hit the stone again. When you hone you do remove material that's just a fact no matter what you use. You are essentially burr breaking and shifting so no need to go 1 pass on each side. Pick the side and hone it until the burr is gone or shifted to the other side, then alternate with a couple of very light passes at the end. Even better with a pass or 2 on a strop after.
do u need to do this outside? wont there be like steel dust coming off when shsrpening?
On a towel and wipe the blade after.
What grade of steel do you recommend for honing, mild, medium, course???
Extra Crispy.
Do u need a stone with a steel or is a sharpenin steel enough?
Stone to sharpen, and the steel to align the edge.
Is there any difference in round v oval?
Oval provides larger sharpening surface so it will work faster.
@@cutleryandmore thank you, i have a very fine steel for honing, but for a sharpening effect what be the best type of steel? Regular cut or diamond?
You would want diamond for actual sharpening
Breh what's a matchbook
"in touch with your tools"...My friend, you just spoke volumes. Most people don't have a clue as to the value of a good quality knife, much less the importance of maintaining a good edge. There are so many BS gadgets that promise "a razor sharp edge." Folks, LEARN what is a good tool. LEARN how to sharpen and maintain it. It will last your lifetime, your children's lifetime AND, your grandchildren's lifetime..Toss the damned "as seen on TV" gadgets. Learn the skills our ancestors knew and, enjoy the benefits of good tools, properly cared for, properly sharpened...It is pure bliss when a really sharp blade glides through whatever you are cutting...Pass this love down through your kids and grand kids.
I am blessed to have some of my grandpa's knives. They are sharper than most surgeon's scalpels. No BS.
Just 2k years? Like people haven’t been using tools for eons?
anyone know if this guy is a master bladesmith?
Yes, he is one of very few who specializes in kitchen knives. Anthony Bourdain did an interview and had a knife made. I think the show was American Craft.
Yes, Bob Kramer just look him!!!!
what on the hone is doing the honing?--diamond powder impregnated into the steel?
it's not cutting or abrading the blade at all. it just burnishes it, basically just smooshes it into a finer edge.
It's just a surface that doesn't budge (the firm edge of the honing steel) straightening out the thin, bent edge of the blade. What isn't widely understood is that simple honing is not the same as highly abrasive sharpening that removes a lot of material.
I used this method and now my knife has tons of scratches about 1cm above the edge.
that would suggest that your edge is set at a higher angle, try slowly increasing the size of the angle you use until you hit gold
Good stuff here, thanks, but consider that my technique when using a steel uses more like 4-6 OUNCES of pressure...not the 4-6 pounds as suggested here. Lighter pressure produces a better edge. 6 very light strokes/side max gives a razor edge. Is a razor edge, or that high of a degree of sharpness useful or even desirable for kitchen use...? It's up to the cook/chef, but note that too much pressure on the steel will actually bend the edge microscopically, and in use the knife will dull faster.
Jeff St Paul Yessir,your less is more is so true,but most "cooks" chefs...today don't usually value and keep a knife or any durable utensils for extended periods,whereas some of us keep favorite knives,a pot or pan...both even.As long as some items are usable,wear well and seasoned I 've seen no reason in 45 years to fall prey to a Name,brand or style often.
Mangia
Bob Kramer is one of 160 Master Bladesmith in the world and the only Master Bladesmith to specialize in kitchen knives. If you want one of his custom made knives you go on a waiting list and if somehow you are lucky enough to bid on one expect to pay $400- $500 an inch. His knives have sold for over $30,000. Just saying he knows a thing or two about knives. I use one for a living and think he's spot on. Remember just the dead weight of your arm is probably twice that weight easily.
@@kimehunt4501 While that's true, if you watch the video you'll see that he didn't actually use a 12-15 degree angle, and he didn't use anywhere near 4-6 pounds of force.
Unless his hone angle is less than 12-15 degrees, steeling at that angle does nothing at all. The steel acts on the edge, and if the steeling angle is less than the hone angle, the steel never touches the edge at all.
Unless you're doing something like slicing for sushi, you don't want the screaming-sharpest edge you can get. You're just gonna have to straighten that edge out waaay more frequently than needed. Usefully sharp, about 80 percent of max sharpness is better, imho. The knife is thicker leading to the edge, so it doesn't roll as easily, needing honing less often. If you're slicing, you don't want to use those ridiculously high grits; a blade for slicing should be 800 - 3,000 grit max; that way it has little 'teeth' along the edge, making it easier to initiate the slice, while being plenty sharp to follow through with the rest of the cut. You want a knife edge polished extra smooth with those higher grits for chopping, where you're using an up & down motion. Run a Sharpie along your bevel, then watch, feel, & listen what it's like when you reach the angle of the bevel & the stroke makes the marker disappear from the bevel. Then you know you're on-angle. Use your smart phone's angle finder to get a good idea. Once you're used to the angles for your knives, you will know by memory, feel & sound rather quickly.
@@NHindividualist Exactly; do what works; not what people say works. You can feel & hear when you have the steel properly on the knife's bevel; you're trying to straighten that edge equally on both sides. Just practice, & no self-imposed pressure to get it perfect right away. Just play around with it for a while with -carefully, of course- & you will find that proper angle to hone/straighten the edge. And don't get me started on people who think they need to actually sharpen a knife every time it gets dull, unnecessarily shaving material from the knife...
How about a filet knife?
so stone blocks or honing?
Honing is something you would do much more often to repair the cutting edge. in professional kitchens that means several times a day, at home before every few uses. Whetstones only once the knife needs a new edge, once again in a professional kitchen maybe once every few months and at home the average cook would need it done more like once a year.
If you can see 'gaps' in the edge where the knife has been hit against the countertop, bone, platter, plate, or whatever where the edge is actually damaged, use a stone. Otherwise, try a honesteel first and if you can't get it in a few minutes, go to the stone.
Remember the angle to put the knife against the stone or steel is the same...
@@kimehunt4501 Nope. Finer Whetstone do the job just fine!
I could start an IV on those veins from way over here. lol
Very helpful. Thanks
Too slow of video n not close enough to see how he has knife blade exactly going down or up he hides blade
You can't actually damage a knife by honing it too often. After all, the process is non-destructive (it simply straightens any dings in the very fine cutting edge and doesn't remove any metal) so all you're doing is wasting your time and energy if you hone when it's not necessary. Similarly, your butcher honing his knives every time he serves you is nothing more than showmanship.
46 lbs. of pressure?!
4 - to - 6 pounds
NOT 46
you could press that knife to 20lbs with your own wrist strength, blade length, weight, material, we just talking about the good ole all purpose kitchen knife, what the hell does that have to do with anything
You are using it backward. They are used to straighten the edge, not to sharpen it. See Gordon Ramsey.
0:08 "honing puts me in touch with 2000yrs of Western civilization"... Yes, because no one knew of this before the Europeans came along and taught the world the way to a sharp knife. Ah ancient Athens... the famous bastion of knife-making over Damascus and Seki. Does Zwilling-Kramer have an Athens steel series?
Your comment is nonsensical.
He's a Westerner, so he relates to Western Civ. Would you berate an Asian chef for saying "Sharpening puts me in touch with 5000 of Eastern Civ?" Of course not.
He didn't say all that. You seem to be implying Western civilaztions HAVEN'T been doing this for 2000 years.
I've always believed the knife should be angled as you steel it. Holding it at a 90 degree angle as you showed us is counterintuitive. The ridges on a steel are designed to carefully knurl the edge of a blade, so a 45 degree angle allows the ridges of the steel to gently knurl that edge. The 90 degree angle you showed won't do that.
Not 90 degrees, he said 12-15 (which matches the angle on the cutting edge)
Some people say 22.5, some people say 12 or so. I guess it is just personal preference.
German blades are 22.5 or so and Japanese more towards 12. Japanese steel is much harder and can take a sharper edge. If you went that low with a German knife it wouldn't hold the edge.
Nice. Doing it all wrong. This is not sharpening, the rod is used to straighten the edge, therefore you should drag the knife the other way.
Bullshit you don't need pressure on a knife when steeling it, You do the opposite light strokes every time I've been a slaughter man for over 35 years I know what I'm talking about in my trade you need razer sharp knives
Would you be able to link me the best honing steel to buy, I would really appreciate it :), Thankyou.
@@BigOMeldogs Google butchers warehouse the steel I use are the ISLER topcut and the SILVER CUT
Make a video then bud. Bob Kramer is a master bladesmith with just as many years of experience.
Too complicated, too many words. The point of video is to SHOW not talk. Never seen a pro chef use a carving steel like this anyway. Oh, and ‘use an angle between 12 to 15 degrees’? We can all judge that to perfection. Sorry, this is a waste of time.
To complicated? I smell bullshit.
@@russellfrancis813 probably your own. You’re closest to it. 😂😂😂🥵😂🥵
Yeah, but that’s not a sharpener.
That's not what it's for; it's a tool to fine tune your edge between sharpenings.
This video is a lot longer than it needs to be. Only the 90 seconds between 1:15 and 2:45 is actually telling how to use the thing.
Yet you spent how many additional seconds typing this comment? Cut your losses man.
“Western Civilization” LOL
never seen a more stupid way of steeling a knife in my life, totally wrong.
Not wrong, sorry. Try again.
@@russellfrancis813 so you have zero understanding of how a steel works, yet tell me im wrong lol
unreal
This is nonsense WTF
There's something about knife sharpening that brings out the know-it-all comments.
Yeah, your comment IS pretty nonsense, huh?
Nonsense.
Wrong. Honing rods do NOT sharpen, they straighten the edge. Only steel sharpening rods sharpen knives.
1:30 A matchbook is nowhere near 12°-15°... more like 5°! Terrible example.
Also, too much pressure - _Master Bladesmith_ my arse.
Silly example, but your conclusion is even more silly. Bob Kramer is VERY well known and VERY well respected. I can't say the same for CorkyMcButterpants.
LMFAO!!! 😂
You clearly don't know who Bob Kramer is. Get good, bud.