What's the Most Realistic Artificial Gravity in Sci-Fi?
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
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2001: A Space Odyssey introduced a lot of people to the idea of rotation based artificial gravity, but in sci-fi, it’s far from the only one to implement the idea! Babylon 5, Halo, and Ringworld also used rotation-based artificial gravity in their stores, but, being an astrophysicist I had to ask, WHO DOES IT BEST? And more importantly, is artificial gravity in space possible? And I’m talking outside of your artificial gravity in Kerbal Space Program (but we may get there). (edited)
Extra Credit:
Kevin Grazier article about Halo:
www.gamasutra.c...
Old NASA video testing rotational artificial gravity:
• Video
MIT video demo of the Coriolis effect:
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Can you do an episode on "the expanse”. They do water pouring at a slight angle to demonstrate Coriolas effect. Not to mention amazing f**king show.
They also gain their ship gravity by accelerating half way to their destination and decelerating on the latter half. Which tbh is a totally valid way of doing it.
The Expanse is the most accurate for gravity, and probably overall as well. Stations use spin gravity, ships are configured with their decks laid out vertically, and use constant linear acceleration/deceleration, usually of .3g (Martian surface gravity).
Yeah, but rotating the entirety of Eros or Ceres? Please. That's not realistic at all.
No. MS Gundam is the best in terms of how well they do artificial gravity.
Although this video was out before the Expanse so information on that was limited to make a conclusion of the future.
@@badbeardbill9956 Not all the asteroid stations are spun, and Ceres is reinforced by a basically a big-ass steel ring or cable, among presumably other things.
That wouldn't be enough to prevent it from disintegrating. But really that's not even the biggest problem.
The biggest problem is the implication. They oppress Belters, right? Look down on them, disrespect them, the works. Well, the energy required to spin Ceres to 1/3 gravity is so enormous that it would take a civilization with 1,000 times our energy production capacity to spin it up to the necessary speed in 100 years, if the civilization used all its energy to spin Ceres. Not only did they spin it, they spun it in something like 10 years. And they did this for a wholly unimportant group of people? That means that the energy used was cheap to them. You know what that means? Humanity in the Expanse is likely hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than modern human civilization, if not millions of times more powerful. They would have the energy to accelerate ships to near lightspeed easily by taking advantage of laser sails or perhaps magbeams. Humanity in the Expanse should be an interstellar civilization at the start. Perhaps even on the brink of developing the portal technology they later encounter. That amount of energy is nothing to sneeze at.
Check out Scott Manley's amazing analysis of things like hollowing out asteroids and spinning them up. Sad news is that it won't work. Pity. But a great show.
Anyone actually watching this video needs to stop what you’re doing and go watch The Expanse RIGHT NOW! (If you haven’t already) 😁
The drive they use is not exactly realistic.
Been there done that. Waiting for the next season.
Absolutely!
Flip and burn!
@@ciCCapROSTi Unlike the drives listed in this video... :-D
although i am a big fan of halo, i'll have to say that in the game, there is also artificial gravity in space ships without any kind of explanation xD
+BrunoJMR It's explained in the books that went along with the first game.
The Pillar of Autumn for example had cylindrical sections inside the hull that would spin.
However I think it's bullshit there are a few problems with that. For example, the bridge is clearly not part of any spinning structure, nor are the hanger bays or the escape pod ports.
Lawrence Rhodes yeah, and the problem maintains te same, this ship's radius is too small to create a uniform acceleration field that emulates gravity
+BrunoJMR It didn't have uniform acceleration in the books either. They used the spots with high gravity to train, cus they are spartans and all...
needmorespaceformyna did you at least watch the video? you'd know what i was talking about if you had.
***** what about the grenades that follow parabolic trajectories when you throw them? and every other object in the space ship?
I think if this guy spoke just a little bit faster, he would produce enough artificial gravity to suck me into the computer screen.
+Lenny F
the speed of how he talks creates this illusion of a very high pitch lol but if i listen carefully, it's not really that high a pitch haha
+Maggy Frog I never said his voice was high pitch.
Lenny F
yea i know. but it sounded kinda high pitch to me
By moving his lips at a velocity approaching c, he is attempting to send this lecture back in time.
Most importantly, I only had to check the cc once. Maybe twice. Fast talking is good if it's clear, but a slight slow-down would be a little more relaxing.
Rendezvous with Rama - Arthur C. Clarke. (As well as the subsequent sequels). Serious rundown would be interesting.
great book
I agree, the ship was a miniature world that made sense. Thank you Arthur C. Clark.
I was looking for this comment.
@@AlejandroLZuvic I knew this would be in here. The end of Intersteller showed a Rama-ian setting a bit. This book, and Gentry Lee's additional work, NEEDS to be made into a film. World building is hot right now (Marvel, Walking Dead, dozens of video games) and Rama is just sitting there, waiting to get made...
Exactly. Don't recall the actual dimensions of the cylinder, thou.
Halo Rings don't actually use centrifugal force for their artificial gravity, and instead use the Forerunner's artificial gravity technology (which would be eventually reverse engineered by the Covenant, and then eventually reverse engineered from the Covenant's tech again by the Humans). This is noted by Cortana and other characters throughout the series who state that the ring doesn't spin fast enough to produce the gravitational effect seen on the ring.
However, before Humanity had widespread access to artificial gravity technology that would become the standard, they did use centrifugal force on their ships to simulate gravitational forces.
This. This is relevant.
I think you mean centripetal force, centrifugal force doesn't exist as a real force, it's a perceived force
@@Sol_Invictus_ What we hear on this subject seems to depend on the day of the week or the phases of the moon. Back and forth on the concepts. If you think about it, both exist. Action, reaction. Both are real. The angular acceleration of the ring or cylinder creates the centripetal force, and any mass rotating within it has an equal and opposite (centrifugal) force vector.
@@joesterling4299 centrifugal force isn't real in the sense of it not being a force, when you are experiencing a force and then change direction you think you are feeling a new force (centrifugal force) however you are simply feeling the remnants of the original force
A Higgs field compression without explanations would be about as good as warp drive without explanations, in fact complete control of the Higgs field might also be your explanation of warp drive. Warp (which is required for anything beyond a single solar system) and artificial gravity are equally fake and probably will never happen.
The ships from The Expanse. They just accelerate at all times with the Epstein drive untill half way when they flip and burn to decrease their speed. The floors from the ships are perpendicular to the axis of acceleration, so they just go at 9,81m/s^2 and have a perfect 1g at all times and super high speeds.
In The Expanse, they use magnetic shoes to counteract the lack of gravity.
I think you missed the main subject material here. This is about rotational gravity, not acceleration forces.
@@carlosrodgers1296 Actually, they do both. Ships accelerate/decelerate most of the time. The magnetic boots are only turned on when the engines are off, or are about to be turned off.
@@kjevers1 This was also created before The Expanse was first broadcast. I'd love to see an update.
@@kjevers1 'What's the Most Realistic Artificial Gravity in Sci-Fi?' Where does it mention rotation in that title? He only talked about rotational methods as there is no way (theoretically) to generate gravity in a flat deck, the operative word there is 'generate'. The ships in the expanse (bloody good series btw) don't generate gravity so they're a valid method for the purposes of this argument.
My vote actually goes to "The Expanse". They even have a scene early in the series where someone is pouring liquid from a container into a glass, and the stream is offset slightly by the Coriolis effect, forcing them to move the glass slightly aside from directly below the mouth of the container.
TV show "The Expanse" has the best, most of theirs is thrust based gravity.
actually most of their gravity is spin gravity. Ceres for example has millions of people. And there are hundreds of smaller asteroids and stations that spin. Ships epstein thrust gravitation is just a fraction ;)
That's called linear gravity
@@SergeyPRKL to be fair trying to slap a giant centrifuge on anything that isn't a colony ship is uneconomical
Spinning up the major asteroids in the asteroid belt to somehow give the interiors artificial gravity is not terribly realistic. Certainly not at their technology level. Why are there no space colonies in that show? None at all, even though they can build cities inside the asteroids. They skipped a step.
If human space travel is going to go any distance (ie, beyond neighbouring planets) it's going to require acceleration, and humans aren't going to tolerate multiple G acceleration for more than several minutes at a time. So it's mostly going to be continuous 1G acceleration and deceleration.
That suggests that any such travel will mostly be planned point to point, with unplanned detouring like in sci fi movies not practical.
Craft with gravity rings would mostly be in constant velocity state and therefore probably not used for commuting type travel. Mostly orbital stations or colonies.
Note: Why do you assume the astronauts in 2001 were subject to exactly one gravity. It makes a lot of sense to minimize the artificial G force to minimize structural requirements and mass. Somewhere between 0.25 and 0.50 seems plausible.
Yes, you'd only need enough for it to stop muscle waste and bone density loss. That would be a practical use of rotating sections.
One of the drawbacks of leaving Earth for a low gravity destination then coming back. If its a 2 year round trip, every single cell in your body has been replaced and you probably will not survive re-introduction to 1g. Capillary action is required to prevent blood gathering at your extremities (arms and legs and possibly head). If it doesn't, you get blood clots and die of deep vein thrombosis. Capillary action is performed by muscular activity, at Earth gravity. It must be performed every two or 3 hours to maintain physical condition under Earth gravity conditions. Imagine what the work rate must be at 0.3g?
user_mac01 Valeri Polyakov was able to endure re-entry after 14 months in zero G. I imagine someone could survive a lot longer with the benefit of gravity of some kind.
Yes, that is what will likely be done on a "ship".
@@user_mac0153 2 years isn't enough time to replace every cell in your body. 7 years is the general time frame that EVERY cell (except heart and some brain cells) have been replaced. All that's needed is way to create impact force on the bones to induce breakdown and restructure to keep them intact. Along with tension forces on the muscles to facilitate micro-tears and growth. The heart can be kept healthy by keeping the heart rate up by high intensity interval training. Down side, is like you said, a person would consciously NEED to actively workout 2-3 hours everyday. While on Earth you can sit on your ass an gain the resistance benefits that gravity offers.
Rama.
And yea, as many here have noted, what about the space station in 2001? A much greater diameter than the Discovery.
no rendesvouz with rama? ):
Arthur C. clarke is known for being extremely meticulous with his sci-fi.
The earth-like tube structure at the end of Interstellar seemed fairly accurate. The film didn't give specifications, but the Coriolis effect was present during the baseball scene.
they are most likely build like Babylon 5 station, just with thrusters so that they can move.
Interesting that you choose to ignore the orbital station in 2001, instead focusing on the much smaller grav ring on the Discovery.
Don't forget the Leonov in 2010!
Yeah, 2001 got it right. In fairness, he did only address "franchises". But still
how about the O'Neil cylinders as space colonies in the UC Gundam franchise? Also in Zeta Gundam, if you watch an episode, you can see the crew's boxy living quarter of the Argama, it is attached to a telescoping arm that rotates in a very big arc with counterweight on the other end of the rotating arm... folks, what do you think? It seems that the creators of that show did some real math to come up with all of it.
@BLAIR M Schirmer Yeah, really....What's his rush? Maybe he should've (a) not had so much coffee that morning and (b) made a quick visit to the restroom before making the video...
@@willywonka4340 Yes. I agree! Gundam was a big enough franchise that I think it should have been mentioned.
I would think that Rama in Rendezvous with Rama or the starports in Elite:Dangerous might be more realistic.
Robert Hamman wow i'm reading Rendezvous with Rama right now! got it for cheap at a sale... really great to read hard sci-fi, Arthur C Clarke is a genius.
Gregory Samuel Teo I'd like to see Gabe discuss Rama as well. I've read all 4 Rama books a few times over the years. Excellent choice alveolate!
Robert Hamman ED its kinda sketchy, expescially with Orbis and Ocellus stations, just watch how they're designed
Robert Hamman
Is the Rama one a book? If so, what's it about? (I might want to read it)
some person Yep. It's a novel about an alien ark-ship that visits our solar system. A hard scifi exploration tale. I would highly recommend it!
Small radius centrifuges will work if you want to settle for less than 1 G. It's never made clear in 2001 if Discovery's centrifuge is supposed to be 1 G, but the way those guys are walking and running in it it sure looks like it must be close. Also, in that movie, people walking around in the conference room on the Moon are obviously not walking in lunar gravity.
+Helium Road I'd give 2001 artistic license for not getting the exact look of less than 1G right, especially with 1960s filming technology. And you're absolutely right. The one thing the presenter overlooked here is, it doesn't have to be 1G. Heck, maybe 1/3G or less would be enough. All we're trying to do is give people some reason to exercise their muscles and prevent bone loss. Even a little gravity might help offset these effects significantly compared to zero-G. We could even try to compensate for the remainder by weighing people down with, say, weight-enhanced clothing.
+Helium Road Agreed, station/ship gravity doesn't have to be anywhere near 1G to do the job. 2001 Also includes a much larger centrifuge example in the large wheel space station.
+Helium Road The book describes Discovery's centrifuge as generating roughly lunar gravity.
+Helium Road From reading the book I if I rember correctly it is less tha 1G its closer to 1 Moon-G.
Sounds about right.
In the accompanying book to 2001, Arthur C. Clarke explains that the rotation induced gravity of both Space Station 5, and the Discovery, was not 1g, but rather 1/6th g, just like the Moon. You don't see that in the movie of course. So the coriolis effect would be much reduced. Now as for Pool running the track in 1/6th g? That of course would bring up other problems, like him launching himself towards the ceiling.
BTW, the book explains the monolith and the aliens that built it so much better than the movie.
And Saturn would have been much cooler to film. The rings were made by getting the monoliths to our system.
Apparently much of the difficulty that the Apollo astronauts had with walking and running in the 1/6 g of the Moon was to do with infexibilty of their spacesuits, it was just easier to "bunny hop" than to try walking properly. At least that's what some of the returned astronauts have said...
@@MrRezRising , Saturn was supposed to be in the movie, but the special effects guys couldn't get it right in time for the shoot, so Kubrick went with Jupiter instead. Too late for Clarke to do a rewrite of his own book. However, the effects guys eventually did get it right, and used their work in the movie Silent Running. And it's been about 40 years since I saw that movie. It's no 2001, but I do recommend you give it a watch.
@@donaldbadowski290 Wow, young Bruce Dern. Thanks for the rec. It does look like an interesting story. If it's on Netflix, etc I'll watch it now.
Yeah, knew about the rings and sfx problems with 2001, and side note, there are oodles of Clarke stories ready to be made into movies, the guy was a fountain of good ideas. Still waiting on Morgan Freeman to make Rendezvous with Rama.
@@MrRezRising , 5 years ago they made Childhood's End into a mini-series. I was so disappointed. It had none of the wonder of the book.
So, movies don't do lighter than Earth gravity while being on the Moon, Mars, or a rotating man-made thing. But there's a genre that does this all the time! Namely, Chinese kung-fu action movies! And that made me think... a Chinese action film taking place on a space ship/station with artificial gravity (or an alien world)!! They could even emulate the Coriolis Effect with the strings, right??
Lol them guys jump so high.
Crouching Tiger, Floating Dragon
Technically the Halo rings were built by highly advanced civilizations, so there's the caveat
Yeah, I think that goes without saying.
I'd say the caveat is their ability to flatout destroy life. It's not entirely out of the question that we may build a Ring structure once we are more "Highly advanced"
Also: in combat evolved, the ring is in close orbit of a gas giant, and if I remember correctly is at the lagrange point between the gas giant and it's moon; this is incredibly unstable and would cause the ring to bend into a ellipsoid with the ellipse staying in the same place while the ring rotates, stretching the material.
At the Trojan points in any planet/moon situation the gravity field gradient is very small and not sufficient to cause significant warping of the proposed ring structure. However the fields will probably be unable to exert sufficient influence to keep the ring in position.
L4 and L5 Lagrange points are stable, these are 60° forward and behind the smaller mass in it's orbit around the larger. L1, L2 and L3 are unstable, requiring course corrections to maintain the spot. L1 are where the vectors cancel, L2 is on the opposite side of the smaller mass from L1. L3 is on the opposite side of the larger mass from the smaller mass.
Is this vid at 1.9 normal speed or does PBS just give him a Jolt Cola and a Snickers bar before tge shot!
r before
1 - both Halo and the forgotten space station from Elysium suffer from a problem... atmosphere leakage. Ringworld had walls 1000 km high to prevent atmosphere leaking.
2 - you forgot another type of realistic artificial gravity, that I have seen plenty of times in sci-fi books: constant ship acceleration. In those cases, the ships are like skyscrapers... instead of "decks" that are parallel with the axis of acceleration, the decks are perpendicular to that axis.
Although we are very far from reaching tech to constantly accelerate a ship even at Moon gravity like accelerations, it´s realistically and feasible in a "short" time frame. Discover some good and reliable fusion propulsion tech and accelerating constantly at 0.1G could be possible.
+Rogério Penna the atmosphere is also affected by the rotational force, so no you dont need walls. Earth doesnt have walls does it?
+shashnatiq oh my god... stop to think for a while.
Rotational force causes centripetal motion, causing acceleration that we feel like gravity. But it is NOT gravity. You only feel the outward acceleration IF you are touching the floor.
For example, in the center of a rotating wheel 500 meters wide that rotates in the speed necessary for you to feel 1g, you feel absolutely no acceleration. You are in freefall. Guess what, in Earth, at 250 meters altitude... you fall! Wait... the Moon is 400 thousand km away and it´s orbiting Earth BECAUSE it´s held by Earth's gravity!
Gravity caused by mass is a distortion of space-time and it reduces with the squared inverse of the distance.
Thus, the atmosphere even 100km above the planet (Very thin) is being pulled TOWARDS THE CENTER of the planet.
Where do you want the atmosphere to fall if the planet is SPHERICAL and gravity pulls towards it´s center????
Its completely different in a spinning space station. For once, it´s not real gravity. If you approach from outside, you can hover 1 meter above the spinning station and you won´t feel gravity.
More than that... gases do not behave like water. They expand. They are bound by spinning station BUT they expand MUCH HIGHER than the 1g of the station can contain with those small walls.
Think for a second... Earth has 1g, same as that station. Is all of Earth's atmosphere contained in 100 meters? If you go above 100 meters you suffocate to death?
No... the atmosphere on Earth extends hundreds of kilometers above the surface.
And so would the atmosphere in the station. Once it goes higher than the tiny short walls, it expands sideways too, and then is thrown AWAY because of the spinning movement.
+shashnatiq if you doubt what I answered below, tweet @pbsspacetime and ask them.
+Rogério Penna The Expanse is I think the first TV show to do gravity as a side-effect of acceleration. The novels have been around for a good few years.
+Rogério Penna if you do play on some maps in halo there are walls at the edge of the ring that are fairly high but i doubt its 1000km
Rendezvous with Rama.
ditto
Yes, a amazing book, and a amazing ship. Why doesn't have a movie yet?
Oh man, that's a shame. Morgan Freeman? Really?
Great book, great story.
Rama is a book, not a movie or tv show. He only looked at video sources. Thus, no Rama.
What about the space station in 2001 a space odyssey? That seemed like a pretty good simulation of gravity. And it was big enough that there would be negligible coriolis effect.
You also wouldn't need an entire "ring". Just take a structure with length equal to the requisite diameter put a station on either end and rotate it around an axis.
You'd still need two ends to counter balance. A long the lines of a bowtie shape being spun along the central axis.
Interesting. But one would have to check stability issues first.
The ship in 2010 (the sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey) had something like that as I recall. Two boom arms with a pod on the end of each one that rotated. Not a continuous ring, but there were areas at the edges of each pod with gravity...I assume the crew living spaces, but I can't recall in detail.
Some of the Earth ships in B5 are like that.
That's what they propose to do in the "Mars Direct" mission design; once the last propulsive stage has been used up, it decouples from the habitation module, but rather than simply being jettisoned and abandoned, it is reconnected via a long tether. Using the last stage as a counterweight, the whole arrangement is then spun around its centre of mass at a rate high enough to produce the minimum amount of artificial gravity required to live comfortably during the journey. If you haven't seen it, I can sincerely recommend "The Mars Underground" which goes into some detail about this project. ua-cam.com/video/tcTZvNLL0-w/v-deo.html
Amazingly this guy almost sounds natural in 0.5 playback speed.
I think he's near ideal at 0.75 speed.
You gotta listen on 1.5x for a bit to adjust. Then wind it back to 1 and it seems good.
He’s already beyond spacetime.
Lmao
0.75 works better for me
The omega destroyers in Babylon 5 are also very cool!
So much that you'd have a planet instead of a space ship
Imperial march song plays
forerunners built the halo, assuming you were assuming the humans built it from like 7:06
***** Well... the way he said it, did not necessarily mean that humanity built the halo, but whether or not humanity will be able to build a halo.
On another note, I am surprised Gundam series did not come up, but Babylon was very similar in that aspect.
SaruKishin hence that assumption clause
***** The issue is more that, no matter what material the halo is made of, you would need so much of it that it is pretty unlikely you would be able to build it. Especially if the substance isn't extremely common.
Silverizael
the core of the moon is iron, just use that mix some carbon you got plenty of steel
CBoxStudios the moon is more massive than the entire asteroid belt by an order of magnitude
The movie Passengers also features a ship with rotating rings. When the power outage causes the ship to stop rotating the ship loses gravity.
Although to be completely realistic the ship should not have stopped rotating when power went out. An object in motion continues to move unless an opposing force is applied to it. So only the rotating thrusters firing would stop the rotation.
Well, friction, eventually.
Man, Babylon 5 is such a great show.
Love Babylon 5, a fantastic TV show.
B5 4ever!
Amazing show. Really miss it
Two million, five hundred thousand tons of spinning metal ... all alone in the night.
A self-contained world, 5 miles long, located in neutral territory.
It was the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind, the year ... the great war came upon us all.
They got so many things right, so many things that were more realistic not just how they handled artificial gravity, but also the way their fighters moved in space with the thrusters, not banking like an airplane does which requires atmosphere, and the fact that their station had separate alien sections with different atmospheres - a lot of the little things that science fiction glosses over with "willing suspension of disbelief."
I own the series on DVD. I've watched it from start to finish many times over. It's not above criticism, but in all, damn it was well done.
The Expanse TV show came out after this video, but I really like how they handled artificial gravity. On ships they use high powered ion thrusters accelerating at 1G and on stations and asteroids they actually show the coreolis effect (at least I'm one scene)
Oh right I remember that! He pours the water into the cup at the bar and it's curved.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!" ~ Douglas Adams
There are also other ideas how to create artificial gravity (though I've seen them only in books), namely Torchships. You simply burn your rocket through whole journey - first half along the travel vector, and then against it.
+666Tomato666 I once calculated that performing such a journey to the Moon would take something ridiculous like 2 or 3 hours, all in the comfort of 1 g lol ;)
the peak velocity would be something like 62km/s
the fuel consumption would be prohibitive with conventional rockets
Torchships used fusion thrust, I think. Venting superheated plasma from an internal fusion reaction that also provided power to the ship.
+Max Salmon Tau Zero by Poul Anderson had Bussard starships, capable to getting quite close to the speed of light, making journeys to the stars feasible.
How about the alien spacecraft from Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama?
+Dennis Santos It's 20 km in diameter (vs Halo's 10 km diameter) so I don't know. Probably?
Sounds like Babylon 5 was heavily influenced by Rendezvous with Rama, that source being surprisingly left out & I would like to know how it stacks up. I know this is an old video, but curiosity is very real.
Damn! How did I miss the Ringworld movie?
The "O'Neill Cylinder" space colonies from O'Neill's "The High Frontier" book, popularised in Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979.
Even gives examples of what happens when the cylinder is punctured in some way, or, famously, dropped to Earth.
Forgot to add that the colonies are placed at Lagrange points, making them practical for habitation.
Grarrgle Yes! I remember those. It seemed so obvious at the time. Why haven't we built one yet?
Javier Bonafont
The material requirements and costs are astronomical.
Ha Ha "astronomical" .
yes of course its crazy expensive. But the O'Neill stations make a lot of sense as a next step in space, rather than trying to colonize Mars or the Moon. O'Neill stations would provide a platform where true spacefaring culture could evolve outside of gravity wells. Granted, it is a generational project at best, but the concepts are very sound.
considering that a large army of automated assembly robots over a long enough period could easily gather up the whole astroid belt worth of mass and make big ass steel beams to make a halo.... it's less of a big structure engineering challenge and more of a ln automated manufacturing challenge
retrain bureaucrats in hydroponics and while they are busy get the work done.
What about Elysium?
I wish they'd covered Elysium. It's the one I find most easy to believe, but I don't know how realistic it is based on the size presented in the film.
What is it?
@@benjaminmoszkowicz8149 A movie about a big ringed space station above Earth
@@fweephokus Isn't their idea based off of the game Halo which came out in the early 2000s?
@@Peanutdenver its a place to live and not a WMD
I love how I don't have to alter the speed of this video.
The expanse?
They *don't* have artificial gravity.
Magnetic boots,
They have artificial gravity via upward acceleration
e1123581321345589144 Buddy, when an object is moving through space at a rate of acceleration of 1G, it will be physically indistinguishable from standing on the earth. This is covered in general relativity.
The Expanse has ships that travel at a constant 1G acceleration, and therefore have artificial Earth gravity. It is also the most realistic depiction of this effect, because the book's author did proper research.
they have also Rotational gravity in the Expanse like they rotate Ceres to get 1/3g, they actually mention the coriolis effect.
Also the Nauvoo has a giant rotating tube to produce artifical gravity :)
I'm surprised that I don't see any comments about The Expanse. It uses spin gravity for space stations and asteroid bases (the asteroids are in some way forge welded or something to withstand the stress of rotating), and linear acceleration to produce gravity in spaceships which typically accelerate enough to produce 0.3g - 1g for half of their trip and decelerate at the same rate for the second half of their trip.
I feel like in 2019 The Expanse wins this
No, it doesn't. Expanse use fictional Epstein drive to give ships sufficient acceleration to gain that effect. In opposition to centrifuge gravity ships also need move, what is something show itself use as argument when they are trapped in speed limit field of the gate, where they ass is saved by fact that OPAS Behemoth has centrifugal gravity. Yes, it is better then Star Trek, but it still isn't realistic in strict sense.
@@TheRezro do you mean centrifugal acceleration?
Gravity means curved spacetime. The Earth curves spacetime around it, causing things to follow that curviture. (aka to fall). It's not acceleration...because there is no force.
Or do you mean rotating something fast enough to give it enough energy to curve space? E=mc^2...thats the amount of energy one would have to put into that rotating body to curve spacetime as much as earth does.
The mass of the earth x the speed of light square.
I think an epstein drive is way more likely than harnasing power equivalent to the rest mass of a planet.
@@tylerdurden3722 That is most pretentious nitpick I did see in my life 0_0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity
@@TheRezro so you mean maybe
@@TheRezro The Epstein drive's fictional component is that its efficiency is much higher than that sort of thing would be in real life, not necessarily that a fusion thruster is in and of itself impossible. Besides, we can already easily produce more than 1G of acceleration in spacecraft, we do it all the time with chemical rockets. If you're going to look at the realism of fictional anti-gravity systems, "this thruster is more efficient than we think is possible" is hardly the biggest handwavium around. Halo, for example, has Star-trek style anti-gravity from the very first scene aboard the Pillar of Autumn. As do more advanced ships in Babylon 5, for that matter.
What about Gundam? The colonies in every universe and all space ships and space stations with gravity blocks?
redsky02 i think that if he had thought of those/knew about them, he probably would have picked them as the best bet for realist, considering how big they are and how similar to the Babylon one was
idont know about babylon, but im thinking he just went for popular in the us
redsky02 Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
Babylon 5 always impressed me with what it attained, Director, Writer, and producer J. Micheal Strazinski was truly ahead of his time. The only other series that came as close to this was Gundam series with the ''Side'' colonies. They were mirrored slash windowed environments that had huge solar panels outside the colony for power. No light had to be generated except when the colony set itself to a night time mode. The center of the colony was zero gravity.
Halo, the structure, checks out. Yet after looking at the video, the ships in the franchise would not.
Would like to have seen Interstellar discussed.
another Good Example is Elite Dangerous. The Space stations are basically Large Hunks of metal that spin, and so the closer in you get lower gravity which is suitable for more labor intense tasks, EG the Hanger is nigh dead center so ships can be loaded and unloaded with ease in a tenth of a G, where On the outermost ring you have 1.1 Gs, suitable for living and Farming on the station.
I would have liked to see Interstellar pop up in this video since they use the same rotational gravity
You ignored the space station in 2001.
@PBS Space Time:_"...a rotation structure inside of a small craft would produce some really weird effects..."_ *_WROOONG!!!!_* What you forgot about is that there's a *FLYWHEEL* in Counter-Rotation behind it! That's how the craft can travel without 'weird effects!'
In the real world you would be better off just having two separate modules separated by a high tensile cable 500m long, rotate both modules at 1.3 rpm, generate 1g. Save a fortune in material costs for the sakes of a little bit of research fuel at the start and end of a launch. You could even have a docking module in the middle of the cable to allow vessels to dock, then after docking people could climb down the cables into the modules.
*rcs fuel
You should of also mentioned the space colonies in the original Gundam Anime.
If you're just busing people around and not engaging in combat or anything, an ideal way to generate artificial gravity is to just constantly accelerate. Of course, this will affect how long it takes you to get where you're going. But basically, for the first half of the trip, you accelerate toward your destination at a fast enough rate to generate the sort of gravity effect you're looking for. For the second half, you rotate your vessel 180 degrees and continue thrusting to slow back down.
has Gabe been sped up about 10% or is he just a REALLY fast talker?
LEpicFails913 No playback speed up. That's all me. And I'm not even close to my top speed (see my reply to +Steven Mathews). Not gonna be a regular thing. But... was it still comprehensible? I'm curious.
still comprehensible. I usually listen to youtube videos at 1.25 speed. Your's are the exception.
PBS Space Time My brother and I tended to talk really fast and there were times my parents couldn't understand him without me 'translating.' I also learned to fly planes in high school and have been or worked in aviation since 1997 (including a stint as an air traffic controller) so I prefer brevity and concise language whether spoken or heard. No problem understanding it here!
PBS Space Time Fast Talkers stick together I'm with you dude.
PBS Space Time
English isn´t my native language but i can understand everything easily
I would have given the prize to Babylon 5, because given our current level of technology the Halo station is still beyond our ability to construct. However, if the money and the desire to construct such a station existed, the idea of a Babylon 5 type of station is theoretically within our technological ability. Literally the only things holding us back from being able to build a Babylon station is the will and the funding. And even assuming the the will to build such a station existed, the cost would be astronomically high.
Not only that, but the Coriolis Effect problem he explained on the 2001 ship would apply to bullet on a Halo Ring. Meaning there *are* unaddressed problems
_"the cost would be astronomically high."_ just as well it would be in space then ;)
Except the Coriolis Effect was only being addressed for normal /human/ activity. You could be morbid and quip that shooting things is normal human activity but I would hope building a structure of that size would mean we're somewhat beyond that.
You also have to remember that the Halo installations were not made to be fought on, or lived on really. They're weapons meant to destroy all sentient life as a way to combat The Flood. Simply living on the ring is no problem but you would be more correct in pointing out that /driving/ is going to be a significant problem, at least for the humans still stuck using wheels.
It probably could be done in a few hundred years, when we have asteroid mining and fabricating
Lloyd's of London will give you great odds on it opening though...
EDIT: NAILED IT ;)
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume the centrifugal motion is best since it doesn't need to take every individuals mass into account...and it's probably the simplest and most straightforward to implement....now I can watch this video.
“Everyone could use a good physics related existential crisis, even 6 year olds”. Omg 🤣
Expanse shows coriolis effect in poured liquids on rotating space stations and inside rotating asteroids.
Larry Niven's Ringworld for the win!
The Scrith material and how the ring's structural integrity is maintained is addressed in the books, and is one of the main reasons why the puppeteers are interested in the Ringworld.
One also has to remember that humans didn't build it. Protectors did.
the martian and interstellar ?
cmon they made an effort
What about the earth orbiting space station in 2001? I think it was big enough to avoid coriolis problems.
I thought The Expanse would make it to the list. Not only they have a simple but effective way of simulating gravity by making the deck and thrusters perpendicular, which causes the ship to pull g forces on the crew, but they also have magnet boots when the ship can't speed up and start to get really heavy when it's moving to fast, but also some usually overlooked problems like bleeding in zero g. It's a great show.
Would you take another look at 2001 but this time mention the great wheel space station.
Why do you need a complete ring? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a long central bar - used for all non habitation eg fuel, food/other storage, propulsion - and then have 2 curved arcs at each end for habitation. Here's an illustration of what I mean >>> (-------) You'd then just rotate the whole thing such that you have usable "rotational gravity" in each arc.
The Expanse is the best Sci Fi show and book series I have ever experienced and I have been focused on this genre since I was six years old and watching Star Trek TOS In The 60’s with my older brother. My entire life has been focused on this type of entertainment content so I know of whence I speak. Everyone with even a passing interest in Sci Fi should check out this show and/or this book series.
I have a feeling that the Coriolis side effects you mentioned in the 2001: Space Odyssey scenario could be adapted to just through expectation.
The EXPANSE !!!! have really cool Artificial Gravity on ships
Wow! Very well done and interesting video.
Some viewers may be disliking the fact you talk fast, I personally love that you do. Subscribed!
Why didn't you talk about Space Station V in 2001: A Space Odyssey?
Yes, I noticed that, too. What an incredible oversight! And what about stability issues?
My thought as well.
Although the gravity inside the Clavius moon base and in the Discovery's pod bay doesn't work at all.
MrWhipple42 I can't remember if there is anything floating in the Discovery pod bay, but 2001 establishes that there's some sort of velcro (or otherwise "sticky" covering for the inside of the space clipper to help the flight attendants move around the cabin.
Whole exercise was shilling for halo. I'm not serous but there so much sci fi around, and he picks console shooter full of movie-gravity
2001 Pod Bay has carpet, and they move like Velcro, just not as overt like the PanAm crew. Noticeable in 2010 is that they have a TILE FLOOR in the pod bay! Huge continuity error!
I was hoping to hear about the large LEO space station from 2001 a space odyssey?
For fun, check out Islands in the Sky by Clarke as well. LEO fun all around.
It doesn't need to be a ring. It could be a pod, connected to another pod (or weight) at the other end with tether, where the two pods rotate around each other. The tether can be rigid, or it could be just a taught cable. (Which would need some time to settle down.) The entire craft would be two big things at opposite ends of a string. They could be connected with a "Jeffry's Tube" if both ends are useful space, or solid if one end is just a weight.
In this way, a ship can have a very large "orbit" to create artificial gravity, without much total weight and cost.
better to be solid otherwise the cable will break and you will fly into space.
What about the colony cylinders in the Japanese anime Gundam? I believe they had a 6.4 km diameter.
Yeah I was gonna say no one mentioned Gundam!
I think the best artificial gravity humans have been exposed to is on Earth. #gravityisalie
Michael Winter And by a "lie", you mean an illusion, right? ua-cam.com/video/NblR01hHK6U/v-deo.html
So, you think that space-time bends, like it's doing yoga? No. Points are closer in the valley of a 4D hill - but distance is conserved in any sufficiently small reference frame. It's the contrails, man - they make the gravity. If you spray enough vinegar solution at them, you can float. Way cheaper than rockets. NASA knows this, but is inflating it's budget. You want proof, it's in the numbers. #poeslaw
Michael Winter #hashtagsarerelevant
Michael Winter Please enlighten us more on your extravagant knowledge of phenomenons still under heavy research by the world's top scientists... #Dunningkrugereffect
TheGamesforreal the trick is wearing pants. Specifically, the higher the pants are worn the smarter the person. There are the saggers, normal people, and high-waist professors. Me? I wear my pants on my head. You _know_ I'm smart. #ahashtagisforever
The ship in the movie Passengers or in The Martian do a good job
In terms of rotational artificial gravity, the movie Elysium does it pretty well as the focus of the film is a ring like space habitat in orbit around the Earth.
However, I feel like you neglected another way artificial gravity could be produced: Acceleration. In several novels I've read, most noticeable The Expanse and Revelation Space series, use rotation and acceleration to produce gravity. After all, your body wouldn't be able to tell the difference between gravity of 9.8 meters per second or acceleration of the same rate. Granted this is not the most efficient way of producing artificial gravity but in Revelation Space, their starships accelerate at 1 G until they reach a cruising speed of 99 percent the speed of light. And on top of acceleration, the ships also have rotating sections for when the ships are not under thrust.
Jon Nielson In The Expanse series, they use some kind of advanced, super efficient fusion engines to accelerate at whatever G they want to on the way to their destination and then they just turn their ships around at the halfway point and begin decelerating.
The Android Next Door It does work (special relativity in a nutshell) but that's assuming a constant acceleration at the given rate without a cruise portion where velocity remains constant. The energy output would be high and thus, for the most part, not something we could achieve but otherwise feasible I'd guess.
Robert Éiva I think you know what I or anyone else means when saying 99% the speed of light.
Jon Nielson In Revelation space the engines, 'conjoiner drives' use mini wormholes to a point just after the big bang, so they don't carry the propellent.
Robert Éiva relative to the speed of light! C is the constant that everything else is relative too. C is constant for all observers hence the relativistic effects on time and space as you accelerate over time.
It's too bad you are sticking to franchises Si Fi. You left out Martian and all the space movies with torus space stations. You also did not touch on the idea that 1 G is not necessarily required. How about a half G or a third?
Princeton Professor Gerard O'Neill's work on space colonies, especially his book "The High Frontier"is the definitive work on this. He discusses the size /structure issue the RPM issue, the coriolis effect and all of it. He of course didn't invent the idea, he just described it in complete detail. Everything since 1972 is just a spin off of what he said, especially Babylon 5.
But Babalon 5 got one thing wrong. Gerard O'Niell described twin colony cylinders joined by a long trusses at the axis. One of the things this did is enable the colony cylinders to be longer than wide. Gyroscopic force will not allow a long spinning cylinder to remain spinning about it's long axis forever. It will eventually work it's way into spinning end over end. So a torus works, barbells work, and a short cylinder that is not longer than it is wide works. Or of course, 2 long cylinders, counter rotating to cancel out their gyroscopic force.
Babylon5 was a pretty good show, but of course had its story faults:
a. They didn’t seem to know that space habitats were intended as a much better solution than planetary surface colonies, so they confusingly had both. They reuse old colonization ideas, leading to unnecessary conflicts over the series. When they show Earth, it should have a large number of habitats in orbit, and there should be no Mars or Io surface colonies all.
b. Only small sections of B5 are reserved for the various alien life support zones, so we should never see species mixing unless they all have their full life support systems (including gravity compensation) with them. This is why you never want to re-engineer people.
c. Many stories were written by soul believers, so you get stuff like pure energy, ESP powers, and the afterlife.
d. Strangely, there is no Earth ambassador for the Babylon 5 diplomatic station.
e. The jump engine technology of the show allows you to drop directly into the B5 station, so anyone with a jump engine can easily destroy it.
f. There should be no real-time communications in the series. Even if the jump gates have radio relays, it would take too long.
g. In any competition between alien species one side will completely dominate and instantly win any conflict, especially if it has a billion year cultural head start (a 1000 year head start would have been more than sufficient). G’Kar was right in his discussion of the ants - too bad this comment was ignored by the writers.
h. This show repeats some old mistakes like, backwards time machines, instantly decaying orbits, having earth biology specifics all over the galaxy, biology as a super-technology, and fusion reactors that go to critical mass.
Have a nice day.
In Martian, they used the Mars gravity inside the ship, so maybe the Coriolis effect was ok.
He had to keep it down to a level of mediocrity that would appeal to wider audiences and be more relatable, hence it's limited to hollywood pseudoscience-fiction. Otherwise the whole video would be about hard-science-fiction novels that most people would have never read.
Johnny Robinson n
bout time I see someone else who Recognizes Dr O'Neill. The O'Neill Island 3 has been used in a VERY popular Sci Fi franchise that this video failed to include, Mobile suit Gundam. In fact, MSG tends to use a large number of Dr O'Neill's ideas.
Bowl of Heaven, by Larry Niven and Gregory Benford. They get artificial gravity by simply accelerating a (mostly) flat ship, so that everything on the "top" is pressed down at about 1G.
The Expanse!!
Okay, so my ring stations in KSP are unlikely.
Rolan Tang how big is it? do u assemble it in multiple part?
Anything is possible with hyperedit.
Check out the subreddit for Kerbal Space Program, people have actually done it.
Rolan Tang NO. Anything is possible if Jebediah is a pilot :P.
It's ok, kerbals probably love being dizzy.
I wonder if you could wear a ferrous -weave skintight suit that would pull you towards permanent magnets in the deck?
Never thought of this. Hope you don't have iron fillings :)
Larry Niven's Ringworld is the shit....needs to be written for the big screen!
And contrarily to this video it can be built if you use active support in its construction (Isaac Arthur covered the topic of building a ringworld in details)
The Expanse novels honor this pretty right, including vectorial gravity.
When you're in one of those carnival rides that spines people around, the walls *DO NOT* press on you, you are the one pressing on the walls trying to move further out away from the center...
Great video. I was doing some further reading on this topic and I found a relevant paper that claims that the brain can adapt motor skills to the Coriolis effect up to 10 RPM, and the vestibular system can adapt up to 3-4 RPM. Perhaps 2001 was not as far-fetched as it seems, or perhaps I am too hopeful in interpreting the study?
J. R. Lackner and P. DiZio, “Adaptation in a rotating artificial gravity environment,” Brain Research Reviews, vol. 28, pp. 194-202, 1998.
Are you guys shooting on a 4k camera and then just punching in? It's a really great image if that's what you're doing. Well done overall! :)
thelonelydirector that is in fact how we do. the trick is we got a plate to mount the camera sideways to the tripod (so gabe is horizontal and filling more screen real estate), then we rotate it back in post (so gabe is vertical). This way our punch ins have more resolution.
Andrew Kornhaber That makes HUGE amounts of sense. Thanks for the reply and I hope this channel continues. Keep up the great work! :)
ever been on the gravitron!! I've taken six turns before on that! the ride is basically designed to spin at hight levels of centripetal rotation, causing a gravitational effect, but not actual force, the situation is when you move in uniform circular motion, you are really just going in a flat line, and that the ride is rotating, but you are linear, pushed towards the wall
The Expanse. A-Gravity with ship acceleration. If they turn the motors off, zero G. They can have artificial gravity as long as the space ships propulsion system is burning and maintain a constant rate of acceleration.
Expanse wasn't on air in 2015.
How do you maintain constant acceleration?
Star Trek has gravitons! Tackling issues with quantum physics instead of Newtonian physics.
Gravity is the one thing quantum physics is kind of lacking in.
Plus, General Relativity already has gravity covered. (as long as you stay outside the event horizon of black holes.)
If a graviton does exist, it would have the weakest force compared to other forces, by far. My guess is you'd have to somehow cram a planets worth of them on the ship to get a planet's worth of gravity.
loved the video, I never thought about the coriolis effect as a problem.
So, bigger is better, but if you go too big mechanical stresses will destroy your ring. We've all been there.
Very well done on the explanation of rotation and Coriolis effects. I wonder how the ship from 2010: The Year We Make Contact would fare?
What about the space station in The Martian?
QuantumBraced Are you referring to the Hermes, the NASA space ship?
How about the movie Elysium?
+Jolt Eagle
And the movie Europa.
or the spacestations in Elite dangerous
The wiki for ED defined the size and gravity you'd have in Elite. They're pretty big, you know.
elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Station
or interstellar
Elysium would count same as Bab-5 except for its idiotic idea of somehow having an open roof to let spaceships in.
Everyone is talking about the whole spinning thing in spaceships, but there’s only really one popular movie that is actually made a scientifically accurate spaceship, and that movie was interstellar
PLEASE do a video about the Em-drive that NASA is testing now.
I can't figure out whether it's legitimite or completely bogus.
InternetReviewerGuy Yes!
+InternetReviewerGuy arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2015-4083
Neither can the scientists. Here's a recent paper trying to work out if it's real or not. You'll have to look for a full version if you want to read the fine details.
+InternetReviewerGuy +Jordan Slack
It's produced some unexpected results (which, in the context of science is very exciting) but the effects are also super small and there are lots of sources for experiment error that they have to account for.
Given the fact that they are putting huge amounts of power (ex. 700W) and getting minuscule forces (20 µN), it's pretty dubious, even when they try to remove potential errors such as atmosphere, magnetic interactions from the high current, etc., let alone the fact that it violates some big theories.
So, NASA and others will continue to poke at it until they figure out what's happening or at least show that it doesn't work under "completely isolated" conditions, but I wouldn't get too excited. If you're excited about improving space travel, you should be really excited about SpaceX trying to make re-sable rockets, which would reduce the cost of space access by ~100.
Poole got used to it. The Ringworld was made by very intelligent aliens who were much more intelligent than humans. You cannot discount them discovering or inventing scrith, a strong enough material to make the Ringworld possible. The logic they used to justify building it was pretty questionable as Larry's protagonist mentioned at least once in the story and and he also mentioned the problems with it not actually being in orbit and also that other aliens had invented other super strong materials, namely the impenetrable hulls sold by the puppeteers.
One type of gravity simulation you neglected and is to me the most realistic is the continuous thrust model of space travel. If you constantly accelerate or decelerate at a rate to equal one gee, you have no Coriolis effects and the ship isn't ever going to be big enough to worry about the lack of diminishing gravity as you get farther from the center of mass of a gravitational force. Such an effect here on Earth is so small that we need extremely sensitive instruments to measure any such effect. To gather enough energy to power such constant acceleration is the trick. Poul Anderson's book Tau Zero used just such a ship powered by fuel gathered by giant magnetic scoops in the Bussard Ramjet configuration. The book is obviously obsolete because we know now that, barring unforseen discoveries, the universe will not contract and do the oscillating universe thang...
But the constant acceleration model has to be the most realistic.
I just calculated it out. It’d take over 200 days to reach 200 million meters per second at 1g of acceleration. It’s actually a very feasible method of artificial gravity for extended periods of time. Add mag boots and such for the situations where you don’t have acceleration, and you’re pretty much golden.
Although I wonder if it’d be quite like how it’s depicted in the Expanse; they get mag boots and it just seems like everything’s normal when it’s not necessarily all of their body being pulled down and not constantly, like when the boots meet the floor.
The Coriolis effect at 3:50 is correctly described. "For no apparent reason" is of course the ball's inertia and thus straight line motion (as he explains) which someone in a rotating frame of reference knows (see all the good Coriolis effect videos and especially the rotating see-saw analogies). However, the animation pretends that the ball follows a straight line within the rotating frame until it gets to the middle, and then it curves. Instead, it starts to curve right away.
You should update this video to include thrust gravity from The Expanse.
Hope this channel does a review on The Expanse TV show one day.