@@yoseipiloti think you missed the joke. They declared neutrality a while after that happened and things weren't going their way. Them declaring neutrality after choosing a side then is losing doesn't look good for the Thai government at that time.
The story said that when Japan sent ultimatum, Thai Government at that time replied to them with something like: "Our Prime Minister going somewhere that we don't know and we can't decide by our own, so please wait until he come back. Oh! and since we don't know where he is, we also don't know when he'll come back, then, please wait a very very long time"
Problem with Belgium is they'd decide to just go to war, knowing they'd lose, despite having no stake in the conflict. Just some weird sense of national pride. Thailand played it smart by just saying "sure, travel through, just leave us alone". People might say it's dishonorable, but I'd say it's much more dishonorable imo to force your citizens to die and your cities to get destroyed in a conflict that didn't even need to happen, and that you _know_ you're going to lose. Just to say "we're a proud people!"
Fun fact: Thailand was the last country that the UK officially declared war on, on 25 January 1942 - the UK has not made any formal declarations of war since
That's mostly because nobody declares wars anymore... they just start a "special operation". I mean, the UK fought in the Falkland Island, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iraq since 1942. Just to emphasize this: Russia never officially declared war on Ukraine, either. In fact, their national propaganda forbid to talk about this operation being a "war". The US are undefeated in all their wars, because they never declared war on Vietnam. There is actually a video on this topic on this channel.
"... because he didn't like communists and that was good enough for the cold war" 2nd most said phrase on this channel, after "Special thanks to James Bisonette"
Thailand during WWII is pretty interesting. Even when the Axis lost the war, they still kept some of their gained territories and their old leader was later reinstated. That was quite the experience from Thailand.
I'm half Thai-Japanese and Thai history during WW2 is hilarious to say the least. Initially Japan asked diplomatically to pass through Thailand to Myanmar and Malaya. By saying diplomatically I mean "if you don't open up, we will invade". Thailand did not give a reply, so Japan invaded and landed in the south but met with the only resistance coming from pissed off local police and fishermen. So naturally, Japan was confused as heck. Then, Japan got words from Thailand along the lines of "chill bro, we're still figuring out what to do". Then Thailand decided to side with Japan. 😂
From what I have read, it was a good look to resist foreign influence in Thailand because they saw how the Indians were treated by the British and they remembered how they were once Indians
Pissed off polices and fisherman yes, and also a group of local territorial defense student, basically group of 400 military student with captain and sergeant hold off entire invasion for 6 hours before order form bangkok to stand down
they didn't give a reply because they couldn't find phibun, and he didn't even know about the japanese invasion until several hours after it happened 😂
@@TheMormonGuy-ph The influence of Indian culture in Thailand can be traced back to the 3rd century BCE when the Mauryan Empire was expanding its influence across the Indian subcontinent.
In a way Thailand reason for joining the axis is very similar to Bulgaria's reasons 1. They wanted their old territories 2. They can't resist an axis invasion Their way of joining the war and exiting it is also similar. They first join the war by just giving military access, and exit it by switching sides. Edit : They also still get territories even after lose the war.
@@BartlomiejDmowski I think he meant Thailand kept their gained territories after the war had ended. They only gave up their gained French Indochina lands in 1946 after France threatened to veto their membership in the UN
As a Thai, I always find it funny that we're only taught about the part where "Japan forced Thailand to become their alliy", skipping all the territory thirst background and everything. Plus, in Thailand, nobody accepts that we attacked French Indochina first, and the official name for this conflict in Thai is "กรณีพิพาทอินโดจีน" (gɔɔ-rá-nii-pí-pâat in-doo-jiin) which translates into just "Indochinese Dispute" lol.
The funny thing in modern diplomacy and national self-images is that you never want your nation to look like the aggressor in a conflict, ever, even if all evidence points to the contrary.
@@Tugela60 If we go further, those territories were not part of Siam (Thailand's name back then). They were mostly gained through military campaign. Laos, for intance, was its own Kingdom before Siam vassalised it in 1779 and annexed it in 1828. So saying France seized the territories from Thailand isn't exactly wrong, but it's the same as saying that the West seized Korea from Japan.
For anyone wondering if the Indochinese territories Thailand annexed were returned, yes, they were. French simply ransomed Thailand's membership in the UN for the annexed territories.
@@Toonrick12Being crown lands, they would also have a harder time seceding as they wouldn’t have a power structure neatly set up, like the SSRs in the USSR breakup or the other somewhat self governing colonies
The Cubans did try to become independent afaik. There was a movement called the "Suns and Rays of Bolívar" that wanted to kick the Spanish out of Cuba and join Gran Colombia. It never happened because I think the colonial authorities caught them before they did something
Fun fact: Even though Thailand declared war on both the US and British Empire, the declaration of war never made it to the US government. This was because our ambassador to the US, Seni Pramoj refused to side with the government and decided to organise an anti-Phibun and anti-Axis resistance known as the Seri Thai (Free Thai) Movement. Also, Seni later became the prime minister during the late 1940s after Khuang Aphaiwong and then more prominently, in the 1970s.
Everyone in Thai high command including Marshal P realized that Japan would fall soon, so they let Khuang take power with Pridi's and Seni's blessings.
That ended up being Thailand’s saving grace, since as far as the U.S. was concerned, Thailand had committed no act of aggression and thus were willing to talk the British down from exacting stronger concessions after the war.
Here’s a question that’s always intrigued me; what were the Ottomans and the Americans up to during the Napoleonic Wars? Because neither of them get much press, despite being pretty significant powers at the time? As always, awesome video! ❤️
The USA one is pretty obvius, invasion of canada, buying of the french territories etc. But the Ottomans is interesting, because except of the early napoleonic wars i have no idea what were they doing.
The spoofing and homage of Katsushika Hokusai's The Great Wave print ** at the end of this very interesting episode was very delightful. Hope to see more of it. ** The Great Wave off Kanagawa, from Hokusai's Thirty Six Images of Mt. Fuji (c. 1830 - 1832).
Phibun has to be one of the funniest leaders of WWII. He was an absolute Thai nationalist but also lead a program to teach the people of then-Siam how to use utensils, despite the long tradition of using one's hands in the region. Phibun also sent a declaration of war to the United States, but his ambassador "lost" it. Oh, and he was half-Cantonese.
His family name is Phibunsongkram, not just Phibun. He had to literally create a nation from scratch to fulfill his nationalism. That's why he changed the name Siam to the name Land of the Free (Thai-land). He wanted the Thai to be civilized (westernized) to avoid colonisation on the ground that they were an inferior race. His government worked on the following topics: -use of ustensiles to eat -no bare boobs on the streets - western clothing with hat for the men -no goods carried on the head -created a word to salute each other : sawatdee khrap -created words to say yes khrap and kha, no more "o-oh" - created a national dress -created a national meal : Phat Thai -created Thai words for every English word that didn't exist in Thai (funny in our time, the Thai got a tendency to revert to the English words LoL) etc.
Good follow-up video ideas: 1. Why didn’t Thailand fall to communism like the rest of their neighbors? 2. Why did Thailand avoid colonization by the Europeans?
Maybe because monarch's power still strong, and communist in Thailand got something like witch hunting and almost all of them are killed or surrendered. What I exactly know is at that time anti-communist propaganda is every where.
1. Thailand was an airbase for American during Vietnam war, Thai leaders were anti communist/pro monarchist that was back by American 2. Careful diplomacy balancing between French and British empire by Thai government and both powers prefer having Thailand as buffer state between them
I am Japanese and I love Thailand. We are equal friends. Japan and Thailand were never colonies of the West. I am proud of it. I wish Thailand happiness.
There's a monument in Bangkok called "Victory Monument" commemorating Thailand's territory gains against Vichy France in 1941 (even though they had to give land back after WWII)
@@BangFarang1 No Thailand didn't lost the war with Vichy France. Thailand lost the Battle of Ko Chang French Navy but won over the land area. The France army 321 was killed while Thailand only 54 that got killed.
seems like a lot of southeast asian countries (outside vietnam which is only famous because of the americans) are happy when anyone remembers they exist at all despite a huge amount of people living there.
@@sovietunion7643Of course we would. I'm glad to know not all westerners think of only China or Japan or Korea when someone mentions something with the word "Asia" in it.
There was also a shadow government, briefly mentioned in the video, that did a lot of heavy lifting when it came to disposing of the Phibunsongkhram, and negotiating in secret with the Allies throughout the war. A lot of the leniency they received was in no small part due to the underground help they provided the Allies, while also slightly undermining Japan by not really following through on doing what Japan wanted from them. Think of them as Italy was to the Germans, dragging their heals and needed help to do things.
Thailand was looking useful for the US for cotaining communism, and Britain was more concerned about saving its asian colonies from famine than punishing a minor Axis nation (And thus demanded rice shipments as reparations). France was pretty upset but was in a position of weakness compared to the US and UK and didn't really have a choice in the matter.
They're playing their role to Japan like Bulgaria (a militarist semi-constitutional monarchy wanting seeking to take their lost lands), Romania (who later on doing an internal coup and siding with the Allies), and Italy (playing a secondary power to their great power ally in their main theater) to Germany lol
I didn’t ask. I never knew. But I’m nonetheless glad to learn about this. The is the synopsis for a majority of History Matters uploads, and I absolutely love it.
I've been to the fort that The French battleship sailed past, though in order to film on a ship museum that's there. Last year I also translated and recorded voices for a live re-enactment of the battle which was performed by some colleagues of mine at the actual fort. I was too busy to participate, unfortunately. @@MM22966
I just want to say that the "simplified, HM-style" version of The Great Wave off Kanagawa with the Patreon supporters is a welcome surprise. Switching it up, I love it.
Thais were funny bunch of people even in WW2. People actually moved to the city to see US bombers instead of evacuate. We fought with both Alies and Axis and also on side with them at the same time. This running deep in Thais DNA. We are funnily bold, Slip tougue, peaceful to a certain point, conflicting and sperate in various factions with ourselves, but will unite when there's outside threat.
The modern relations between the Kingdom of Siam. (The name was changed to Thailand in 1939.) and the Empire of Japan was established in 1887, but the close relations began during the 1930s. After the 1932 Siamese Revolution which transformed Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy, the Siamese government improved the relations with Japan. According to many academic researches, since the absolute government had a close relations with Western Great Powers, Britain and France, so the new post - revolution government improved the relations with Japan with the intention to guarantee the stability and international recognition of the government. In the same way, Japan, saw the opportunity to reduce the role of Britain and France in the region, so the close relations began. During the period, Thailand had cooperated many things with Japan. Thailand began the industrialization with Japan as a model. Many students were awarded the scholarship to study in Japan. And there was also the military cooperation. With the high nationalistic sentiment at the time, and the Fall of France to Nazi Germany in 1940, Thai government sent the troops to the French - occupied Indochina to take the territories which Siam lost to France during the reign of King Rama V (1853 - 1910 reigned 1868 - 1910) back. This led to the Franco - Thai War which was consisted of ground, naval, and aerial warfare. Most of warfare between both sides occurred in the Northeast region of Thailand and in the French - occupied areas in Indochina. One of the most well known events of this war, moreover than the first aerial warfare in Thai history, was the naval battle between Thai and French battleships near Ko Chang (Battle of Ko Chang) in the eastern sea of Thailand. The war ended in May 1941 (began in October 1940) after the negotiation between two sides mediated by the officers from the Empire of Japan was concluded. France had to cede some areas to Thailand. Thailand made those areas to be a provinces of Thailand and ruled them between 1941 - 1946. After the World War II ended, Thailand had to cede those areas back to France. Today, they are parts of Laos and Cambodia. The The Victory Monument in Bangkok was built to dedicate to those who lost their lives in this war. After this war, Japan and Thailand had a closer relations. In 1941, Thailand was invaded by the Japanese troops. Despite a little resistance by the Thai military and police officers and the "Youth Soldiers", especially in the Southern Thailand, to avoid the mass destruction, the Thai government decided to become the ally of the Empire of Japan. The Japanese established the troops in the country, while Thailand could retain the independence and the freedom to control the internal affairs. Japan is the first country which Thailand establishes the ambassadorial level of relations and the diplomatic representative is the ambassador. Before that time, the Siamese representatives in Europe were mostly the legations to many European nations. During this time, the Japanese troops from Thai bases had the critical role to the vicotry of Japan in the invasion of Burma, Malaya, Singapore and Ducth East Indies. Many British, American, and Dutch POWs were captured and forced to work in the construction of the notorious Death Railway in Kanchanaburi Province in the west of Thailand. Even Thailand faced less hardship than many Asian territories which were occupied by the Japanese. There were hardships from the economy and the attacks from the Allied forces to the Japanese bases in the country. After Thailand and Japan became ally before the Pacific theater of the World War II began, Thailand should be one of Axis powers. However, due to the actions of Free Thai Movement, a group of Thai people who disagreed with the government's commitment with the Imperial Japan and cooperated secretly with the Allied powers in many ways such as intelligence during the war, Thailand became a neutral after the war ended and the country, including the government did not faced the punishments from the Allied powers as other Axis nations faced. Thailand just paid some little reparations to Britain and France, sent a rice to Britain to feed the people in British Colonies, and returned the territories it occupied after 1941 Franco - Thai war and 1942 Japanese occupation of Burma/Malaya back to Britain and France. Those territories are parts of Myanmar, Malaysia, Laos and Cambodia in the present. As the legacy of Japanese brutality during the war was less than other Asian countries, and many Thai people have had the positive view to the Japanese since the close relation era in the 1930s, Thailand becomes one of the most pro - Japanese countires in Asia. The positive feeling increased during the 1980s when Japanese companies invested many projects in Thailand, created a thousands of jobs, and made Thailand become the middle income nation in the 1990s. Japan also invested in many infrasturcture project, such as the MRT train. The Japanese cultural products, movies, series, Mangas, Animes and Pop songs are also very popular. Many songs were translated into Thai language. Even there are more competitions from China in investment and from South Korea in entertainment industry in recent years, Japan is still regarded as one of the most favourite countries in the view of many Thai people. Fun Facts: 1. There was a Japanese warrior named Yamada Nagamasa, who was the ruler of Nakhon Sri Thammarat in Southern Siam during the Ayutthaya period. 2. The building of the Royal Thai Embassy in Tokyo is formerly the house of Pujie, the younger brother of Emperor Puyi, the last emperor of China. Pujie married Hiro Saga, the Japanese noblewoman. 3. There is Thai businessman named Boonpong Sirivejjabhandu who secretly supplied the medicines for the POWs during the World War II. 4. There is a Thai classical novel named "คู่กรรม Khu Gam" or "The Sun Sets At Chao Phraya". It is about the love between Japanese soldier named Kobori and Thai woman named Angsumalin. It has been adapted into movies and TV dramas for many versions. 5. Thailand also has the sister group of AKB48. BNK48 is Thai version and one of many "Sister Groups" of AKB48, the idol girl group originated from Japan. They become popular after the great success of Thai version of "Koi Suru Fortune Cookie" which was released in late 2017. The song became popular, became national phenomenon and also made the Group become national phenomenon. Today, the MV of the song has more than 190 million views. This number is nearly as equal as the MV of original Japanese version and the number is still increasing. Many of their other songs also have more than 10 - 20 million views. After the great success, the Group becomes popular and many members have many works, such as being invited as the guests in many TV shows (They also have their own TV variety shows.), being presenters in many TV advertisements and being actresses in many movies, TV dramas ("ละคร Lakorn" in Thai. Many of the members had some acting careers before becoming the Group's members.) and TV series. After the great success of Thai version of "Koi Suru Fortune Cookie", the group becomes very popular and has the expansion with the debut of the 2nd Generation in 2018, the 3rd Generation in 2022 and the 4th Generation in 2023 and the debut of CGM48 in 2020. CGM48 is the Sister Group of both AKB48 and CGM48 based in Chiang Mai, one of the biggest cities in Northern Thailand. And the group is also the first Sister Group of Oversea Sister Group. There are also a sub - units, Mimigumo, debut in 2019, eRaa and QRRA debut in 2023.
I am hoping to see Thailand make an appearance as a minor Red Axis member in Azur Lane and how Thailand fits in the world of Azur Lane. I too lived in Bangkok and Kanchanaburi in the 90’s. My father wrote the book of ‘Captive over the river Kwae’. I met some veterans from both sides and eventually visited both UK and Japan. So yes, the Thai feeling for the Japanese is real. Even growing up and the eventual return trip to Thailand was similar modeled to the Japanese in schools, public transport and even anime mascots.
As a Thai historian, please let me presented some points missed in the video here. This video misses two important points. The first one is that the anti-colonial and nationalist trend that was surging throughout Southeast Asia then. Siam/Thailand had just emerged from a revolution which was democratic and nationalist in nature. The leaders of the revolution, including Pibul himself, saw Japan as a fellow Asian nation that could modernize quickly to the point that it can compete European powers, and hoped that Japan would help driving the European out of SEA. The second point is that the British unpreparedness for war. The British once proposed to Siam to join the Allies in an upcoming war. However, the Siamese envoys in Singapore reported that the British troop there and in Malaya was by any means unready for war and it would be impossible for them to win a war if it was invaded by Japan. When the Japanese invasion of Siam began, the cabinet debated whether to officially join the war on the side of Axis, or just do nothing more than allowing the Japanese free passage. Pibul pointed out to the cabinet that the Japanese were going to win, and the nation should joy in order to get some war spoils shared. Indeed, the Japanese didn’t win. Pibul was removed from power when the tide turned against Japan, though not by a military coup but a vote of censure instead. The power was then handed to the pro-allied Free Thai factions before Pibul got into power after a coup some years later.
@@ddobefaest9334 Indeed. Pibul was himself a militarist and a nationalist, which made him looks a bit like a fascist. He had Japan as a model for development, modernization, and the anti-European colonialism diplomacy. But it should be taken in mind that the Japanese version of fascism (or imperialism) was with a different tone from the European versions.
@@paritchi Thank you very much. If it's not too much trouble, could you offer perhaps three of the greatest aspects where those forms of fascism/imperialism differ from each other?
No, Japan in WW2 was asiatic Italy and there was no asiatic Germany. Now in terms of industrial production, South Korea is asiatic Italy. You are more like asiatic Romania
I wish there'll be a video covering about the last Japanese military operation in 1945 that gave "independence" to Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos from the returning status quo of France in Asia.
Didn't they also successfully hold/defeat the Vietcong back under UK command? And the French demanded it back, returning they did the French-thing and lost!
@@memofromessex Yes, but that was a post-WWII conflict. The Japanese coup d'etat in Indochina I'm talking about is a military operation that took place from March to May of 1945, four or five months before the surrender of Imperial Japan.
Don't forget Burma. Aung San negotiated with The Japanese to liberate them from The British, then realised The Japanese were even worse and led resistance against them.
First, well done on a very reasonably correct pronunciation of Plaek Phibul Songkhram. I was surprised there was no mention of Pridi Bhanomyong who, while initially being one of the chief architects of the revolution that ended absolute monarchy alongside Phibul Songkhram, was in exile due to political disagreement. He intercepted the declaration of war sent to The United States and with American aid founded The Seri Thai resistance which undermined Japanese operations while The Allies prepared for a big push to reclaim Burma-which where The Japanese were also being undermined by resistance forces led by Aung San, and Karen malitias. OK, that part would have been out of the scope of this video, but I still thought there would have been a mention of Pridi Bhanomyong. That said, great overview of the situation. And some of that territory ceded to France was still a sticking issue up to this century when The International Court had to rule on which side of the border Preah Vihear sits on.
fun fact: Plaek Phibunsongkhram didn"t remove out of government by force, but remove with motion of no confidence by Parliment for responding of severe economic problems and for buliding new capital city in Phetchabun province (in case of bangkok lost to allied invasion ). which cost a thousond of worker and labour who died form malaria.
Not to pretend it was benevolent but Cambodian lands were not "robbed" by France. Rather, they were put under a protectorate following a request of the Cambodian ruler, then answering to the Siam king at the time, as Siam and Annam (Vietnam) were tearing his territory and people apart. Cambodia was not independent since quite some time, which motivated the request.
Thank you for making this mini-documentary about Thailand in WWII. My grandfather was actually a young Lieutenant at the start of the war, and fought against the Japanese. Towards the end of the war he actually took part in the coup that ousted Phibunsongkhram from power. It's worth noting that Thailand had two primary branches to its military: The Regular Army, and the Royal Thai Army (which was loyal to the King of Thailand, not the military dictatorship). My grandfather was in the Royal Thai Army, which is basically the "professional" branch of the military with marines, rangers, and special forces. It was because of the coup that Thailand was not treated as an axis power in WWII - since the nation actively rebelled and overthrew a dictatorship allied with Japan, and then Thailand also fought against the Japanese at the end of the war. My grandfather never talked about fighting the French, however, so I don't know what he was doing at that point (maybe he was still in training). I only learned about this after my grandfather died because he had to hide his involvement in the coup when Phibunsongkhram came back to power. By that point my grandfather had managed to get himself promoted to 2-Star General and was helping the US fight Communism in Vietnam.
Great video! I love my country’s representation on history UA-cam. For those wondering why the borders of Thailand actually doesn’t have those French provinces anymore, in 1946 the French demanded their return. As France was a member of the UN, it threatened to veto Thailand’s membership otherwise. Generally, the early modern history of Indochina is an underrated part of world history. Sadly, it is mostly conflict but provides great context for the Vietnam War. Fun fact: did you know Thailand also fought in that war? See also: 1) Anuvong’s Rebellion 2) Siamese-Vietnamese War 3) History of French Indochina 4) Paknam Incident 5) Franco-Thai War
If you played Hearts of Iron IV, there is a new Siam/Thai mod there, with proper research for the historical occurance of the country during the 2nd World War. Look up "Legacy of Ayutthaya"
French political, economic, and technological power were at their apogee on the eve of World War I. The British Empire was no slouch either, to put it mildly. Thailand was in the early stages of modernization and reform, and seemed to be focused on building things like railways and canals in this time period. A war with two of the leading powers of the entire world which were Thailand's neighbors wouldn't have been smart. Of course they are gonna join the entente.
@@stevens1041 By the time the Siamese troops arrived, the war was over. They were just on time for the big allied parade in Paris. 4 of them got their flying license thou, being the first Siamese aviators. And Siam could become member of the Société des Nations.
@@BangFarang1 1 Thailand is an ally of America and the Soviet Union. 2 Thailand beats the best French unit. and capture the flag of this force 3 If Thailand does not join the UN, Thailand will not return the flag of France's best special forces unit. It was considered a disgrace to the French soldiers at the time. Because they also lost to Germany. This was Thai diplomacy in those days.
It’s not often that I get to see the country where I was born, my country of nationality and the one where I lived for 5 years be mentioned in one History Abridged video
Thailand had sent a declaration of war to the Thai ambassador in the United States, but the Thai ambassador in the United States had never sent it to Franklin D. Roosevelt. And Thailand also has FreeThai and has never been in the Axis, but has only been an ally of the Japanese Empire.
Please do a video on he following subjects: 1. Why did the Revolution of 1848 fail in the German states and Spain? 2. Why do people drive on different sides of the road in different countries?
I have a question; How did the monarchies of europe react to the execution of charles the 1st? Why didnt they intervene like they did in the french revolution?
@@catalost Probably that they were broke from that war and so couldn’t intervene even if they wanted to and the English Channel being a barrier for enemy invasions. Plus it was a strictly internal dispute over Charles I specifically and not an attempt to completely upend the monarchy like the French Revolution. Speaking of Charles I wife who was French wasn’t executed with him like Marie Antoine (Austrian) was during the French Revolution. For Austria who effectively called a lot of the shots during the War of the First Coalition, that was their main justification.
@emberfist8347 OK, thanks for the reply. Yeah I also thought it was because France was on the main continent so maybe revolution was more likely to spread from there compared to britian which was an island
@@catalostI think it was because England wasn't Catholic nor Protestant (Ok, they were technically the latter, but they didn't line up with Lutheranism) so neither side cared about who won or lost their head. Plus, the British isles weren't really important in the 17th century as they where in the pervious century or the following centuries.
Thailand declared war on Allies after Bangkok had been bombed for 2 weeks by Us and Britain. US and Britain began attacking Bangkok on January 7, 1942, a month after Japan had invaded Thailand. The Thai government declared war on the Allies on January 20.
What do you mean by 'disgusting'? Thailand is the victim in this situation. This is just a briefing, not the whole picture of Thailand's suffering during Western colonization in Asia by France and England. Siam lost its territory in the South to England, a piece of land that was half of Malaya. England started by renting Penang from Siam and ended up taking it all for themselves, acquiring more land over time. Eventually, Siam and England reached an agreement that Siam wouldn't attack or attempt to take back Malaya, and should not establish an army base in the South of the country. If anything happened, England would handle it. Siam agreed to this, but it was England that broke the agreement. When Japan attacked, and just to clarify, they did attack Thailand( thousand were dead in injuried both sides ) as well after committing genocide in China, there was no help from England. The only thing they did was provide a one-day earlier warning from Churchill! Fortunately, Thailand wasn't that naive. They implemented what's called the Military Youth Program in the South as a precaution. They fought bravely; otherwise, Japan might not have shown any respect and simply taken over Thailand. Instead, they negotiated. For more information, you can google for the Battle of Prachuap Khirikhan. If this incident had happened in another country, it would likely be a whole chapter in a history book. However, due to the delicate relationship between Japan and Thailand, it's only briefly mentioned. If Thailand would seek revage on the allies all the allies soldier that Japanese force them to work in the bridge of river Kwai would have been dead! the one who survive are because of the kindness of Thai people.
Thailand under Phibunsongkhram mounted a very much forgotten invasion of China soon after Pearl Harbor, because the Xishuangbanna/Sipsongpanna region was mostly populated by Dai/Tai/Thai speakers. This invasion immediately stalled and the Thai pulled back.
While Phibun did try to declare war on the U.S., the Thai Ambassador (and future post-war PM) Seni Pramoj decided he wouldn't deliver it. The declaration was therefor not official.
2:31 I am Thai can I study about Thailand's involvement in world war 2 but I felt like Thailand dictatorship are Ultra nationalist at the time and they did have somebody who doesn't like their idea, called Free Thai.
So in the end Thailand preserved eastern territorial gains? With their minor participation in the war, I'd see this as an absolute win. Also, Thailand's ww2 history sounds suprisingly familiar to the one of Bulgaria 😮
Thailand did eventually return the Indochina territories to France in exchange for France to not veto the memberships. Not like the French get to hold those territories long anyway.
Plaek Pibun Songkram (แปลก พิบูลสงคราม) was a very unique figure in Thai history. Most Thai know very little about him or how his legacy affects Thai even today. He was part of the army coup in 1932 that overthrew the Thai king. His first name spelled in English "Plaek" is actually แปลก and pronounced closer to BPLAAK with an aa sound like bat or hat spoken by Americans. His surname "Songkram" is actually pronounced Song-Krahm (in Thai สงคราม) and literally means "war" in Thai. An appropriate surname for a soldier, ironically given to him by King Rama VII. Pibun was heavily influenced by Mussolini, Hitler and Chiang Kai-Shek and the Japanese militarists and he thought fascism was the up and coming political "thing" in the world and the Thai ALWAYS wanted to be in line with the big boys. Pibun wanted Thai to be more Westernized and invented many Thai language expressions most Thai think have been Thai forever - the famous สวัสดี Suh-wuht Dee (literally "good fortune") which is the universal Thai greeting only came into use in the late 1930's - Thai up until then said Sabai-Dee สบายดี ("good health") like the Lao of today still do. He promoted martial first names for boys like Thong-Chai (Victory Flag - an equivalent to a British or American name "Victor" or "Victoria"). Although almost no Thai realize it (or care) his most famous verbal invention was the Thai drinking toast "Chai Yoh" ชัยโย shortened in written Thai to ชโย Chuh Yoh which literally means "Hail Victory" which of course Pibun copied from Herr Hitler's "Sieg Heil". He also tried to mandate men kiss their wives goodbye upon leaving for work and for women to wear hats all the time outside - one princess said he can put the hat on her severed head! Pibun of course was worried about the Japanese and the British strongly encouraged him to resist their charms but when he asked the Brits for weapons they had none to give in the late 1930's. Pibul ordered a few excellent cruiser ships from Italy and aircraft from the USA including Curtis Hawk versions of the US Army P-36 but when Thailand invaded Cambodia and Laos in very late 1940 to get back some of what had been stolen by the by then Nazi occupied Vichy French the US State Department blocked the sales. The French had treated Thailand shamelessly as the French then to do and the Thai took advantage when they were weak. Fair play. There is a very large monument in central Bangkok at a huge intersection roundabout called The Victory Monument which all Thai will tell you celebrates the Thai victory as an Ally in World War One but it in fact was built to celebrate their victory over the French in 1940!
Interesting hearing about Thailand's involvement in the Second World War - can't say I had any idea about it... that is, until now. Thanks for the great vid!
Thailand won the war on the side of Allies later TLDR; The French: YOU LOST! THAILAND PAY UP! The Brits: YOU LOST! THAILAND PAY UP! The Americans: They're with me bitches. and the rest is history
Thank you for this video. I was a history major and had no idea Thailand was in the Axis…even if only nominally. Interesting. Very interesting! (And yes, I meant that to be a Laugh-In reference :) )
My step grandmother (grandpa’s second wife, his first wife was my bio grandma) is from Thailand and she was born about two years after WWII ended. She didn’t experience this alliance/occupation, but her folks definitely did. Pity they’re long gone because I’d be interested to ask them about it from their perspective.
There used to be a bomb shelter preserved in Lumphini Park in Bangkok, which people used during the allied bombings, but it seems to have been quietly removed at some point.
Yes, but this was maintained into the early 2000s for people to learn about the bomb raids during the war. But then they got rid of it at some point. @@bladeobrian2144
As a Thai, We are really good at appealing to both sides. 😂 We allow Japanese access, but keep minimal help with fighting British, as mentioned in the video. The new government they glace about at the end of the war were also come from 'Free Thai' resistant movement, who provided covert information to the British and the US. And many of them were government officials since during the war. If it's a game, it's like letting rebel group allied with the allies during the war, then surrendered to them when Axis lost. A smooth side switch, we virtually neither win nor lose.
Imagine if Thailand could keep these French lands They could join Bulgaria in the „club of Axis members who did nothing but became bigger after the war by playing both sides“
I had forgotten that Thailand was in the Axis. I had read that somewhere along the way, but went "Huh. Interesting" and just carried on. Now I'll want to do some reading about it, this is an interesting overview!
If I remember correctly Phibun stepped down from power during his first term during the war because his government failed to pass two legislations (1. To establish a the Buddhist city, 2. To move to capital to petchabun). But the animation made it look like he was overthrown 2:47 Also you missed out on the free Thai which was another crazy story on its own and would’ve explain the situation and the outcome of the war on Thailand a bit better
They also sent a fighting force to Europe to join The Allied Forces during World War I, though they arrived late in the war. The Flying Tigers airforce division didn't get to participate because by the time their training was done the war was over, but the ground troops, while involved in only a handful of battles, was undefeated and participated in the march on Berlin.
Also: The Bridge On The River Kwai is based on the construction of a Japanese rail line through Thailand to connect with another section being simultaneously built in Burma, to connect Singapore to Rangoon during World War II. It's called The Thai-Burma "Death" Railroad because they say for every sleeper there is a corpse. The rail was build by POWs and conscripted labourers. There are harrowing accounts and several documentaries available on You Tube. Visiting Hellfire Pass is mind-blowing.
Didnt want to but it came to Thailand anyway. the brifing dont mention that Japan did invade Thailand and Thailand did fight back you can google Japanese invasion of Thailand if you like to know more, it part of history that even Thai people forget and maybe it better this way cause both country got good relation now and its for the best. But I still feel sad for those who lost their life or loves one it nearly 1000 estimated both side and it happen the same as as Pearl Harbour, people know about Pearl Harbour or Darwin Australia but not this.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"He declared neutrality and hoped they'd just go around. They did not."
Belgium: First time?
Not as lucky as Spain I guess
They are not neutral,
Thailand tried to invade French-Indochina with Japanese weapons before, but later the Japanese dealt with them
@@yoseipiloti think you missed the joke. They declared neutrality a while after that happened and things weren't going their way. Them declaring neutrality after choosing a side then is losing doesn't look good for the Thai government at that time.
The story said that when Japan sent ultimatum, Thai Government at that time replied to them with something like:
"Our Prime Minister going somewhere that we don't know and we can't decide by our own, so please wait until he come back. Oh! and since we don't know where he is, we also don't know when he'll come back, then, please wait a very very long time"
Problem with Belgium is they'd decide to just go to war, knowing they'd lose, despite having no stake in the conflict. Just some weird sense of national pride.
Thailand played it smart by just saying "sure, travel through, just leave us alone". People might say it's dishonorable, but I'd say it's much more dishonorable imo to force your citizens to die and your cities to get destroyed in a conflict that didn't even need to happen, and that you _know_ you're going to lose. Just to say "we're a proud people!"
Fun fact: Thailand was the last country that the UK officially declared war on, on 25 January 1942 - the UK has not made any formal declarations of war since
I thought they had a skirmish with Argentina in the 90s?
@@DanDaFreakinMan 1982 - there was no declaration of war
@@DanDaFreakinMan The Falklands War wasn't a skirmish lol And it was in the 80s, but there was no formal declaration of war from either side.
That's mostly because nobody declares wars anymore... they just start a "special operation".
I mean, the UK fought in the Falkland Island, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iraq since 1942.
Just to emphasize this: Russia never officially declared war on Ukraine, either. In fact, their national propaganda forbid to talk about this operation being a "war". The US are undefeated in all their wars, because they never declared war on Vietnam.
There is actually a video on this topic on this channel.
Legends say that the UK finaly found their match and has been content since
“You’re not gonna side with Japan and invade us are you?”
“YeSiam.”
That was a terrible joke XD
I thought it was quite good. @@nekomasteryoutube3232
@@nekomasteryoutube3232 it's actually funny
Trans kids rights and equality
My newborn decided to come out as trans.
😂
"... because he didn't like communists and that was good enough for the cold war"
2nd most said phrase on this channel, after "Special thanks to James Bisonette"
Or, "It was because of Britain/Napoleon".
I want to de transition but I already had bottom surgery. Help
Or "You see, when the Portuguese..."
@@patriarch7237 "we must go vack to Napoleon. Its always Napoleon..."
Actually, 1st most said phrase is "But fun fact, no."
Thailand during WWII is pretty interesting. Even when the Axis lost the war, they still kept some of their gained territories and their old leader was later reinstated. That was quite the experience from Thailand.
did they keep those territories? the map of Thailand doesn't look like that
Nobody really cared if France got some of its colonial land back or not other than France itself.
@cultural-and-historical France demanded the territory back in return for backing Thailand's entry into the UN after the war
@@Frostenheimdamn
@@Frostenheim In Hindsight sounds like a lose lose deal, France lost the land and basically everyone bar some microstates joined the UN.
I'm half Thai-Japanese and Thai history during WW2 is hilarious to say the least. Initially Japan asked diplomatically to pass through Thailand to Myanmar and Malaya. By saying diplomatically I mean "if you don't open up, we will invade".
Thailand did not give a reply, so Japan invaded and landed in the south but met with the only resistance coming from pissed off local police and fishermen. So naturally, Japan was confused as heck. Then, Japan got words from Thailand along the lines of "chill bro, we're still figuring out what to do". Then Thailand decided to side with Japan. 😂
From what I have read, it was a good look to resist foreign influence in Thailand because they saw how the Indians were treated by the British and they remembered how they were once Indians
Pissed off polices and fisherman yes, and also a group of local territorial defense student, basically group of 400 military student with captain and sergeant hold off entire invasion for 6 hours before order form bangkok to stand down
they didn't give a reply because they couldn't find phibun, and he didn't even know about the japanese invasion until several hours after it happened 😂
@@FarmerDrew lol thai were no Indians
@@TheMormonGuy-ph The influence of Indian culture in Thailand can be traced back to the 3rd century BCE when the Mauryan Empire was expanding its influence across the Indian subcontinent.
In a way Thailand reason for joining the axis is very similar to Bulgaria's reasons
1. They wanted their old territories
2. They can't resist an axis invasion
Their way of joining the war and exiting it is also similar. They first join the war by just giving military access, and exit it by switching sides.
Edit :
They also still get territories even after lose the war.
In fact, no, Thailand lost all its WW2 gains
E
@@BartlomiejDmowski he prob meant not losing any more lands
@@sharp2979 makes sense
@@BartlomiejDmowski I think he meant Thailand kept their gained territories after the war had ended. They only gave up their gained French Indochina lands in 1946 after France threatened to veto their membership in the UN
It’s because the axis had James Bisonette
and Kelly money maker
Oh boy! Totally didn’t see this joke coming!
😐
you stole my fucking comment OP
Fake
The new outro background is a masterpiece 🌊
Please pray for the Palestinian trans kids of Gaza.
@@TransKidsMafiaLes quoi ..?
yea from gazans lol@@TransKidsMafia
@@TransKidsMafia free Palestine 🇵🇸❤️
@@nemotastic86Please pray for Houthi trans kids
As a Thai, I always find it funny that we're only taught about the part where "Japan forced Thailand to become their alliy", skipping all the territory thirst background and everything. Plus, in Thailand, nobody accepts that we attacked French Indochina first, and the official name for this conflict in Thai is "กรณีพิพาทอินโดจีน" (gɔɔ-rá-nii-pí-pâat in-doo-jiin) which translates into just "Indochinese Dispute" lol.
Japan is the same way. The Second Sino-Japanese War is called the China Incident. They also call the battles of Khalhin Gol the Nomohamon Incident.
The funny thing in modern diplomacy and national self-images is that you never want your nation to look like the aggressor in a conflict, ever, even if all evidence points to the contrary.
That is kind of overlooking the fact that France siezed the territory from Thailand in the first place.
@@Tugela60 If we go further, those territories were not part of Siam (Thailand's name back then). They were mostly gained through military campaign. Laos, for intance, was its own Kingdom before Siam vassalised it in 1779 and annexed it in 1828. So saying France seized the territories from Thailand isn't exactly wrong, but it's the same as saying that the West seized Korea from Japan.
@@tenkotatsu All of those borders are artificial and overlap multiple ethnic groups. Thailand had more claim to that territory than France did.
For anyone wondering if the Indochinese territories Thailand annexed were returned, yes, they were. French simply ransomed Thailand's membership in the UN for the annexed territories.
The strategically-timed placement of the tombstone reading "Foch" was just brilliant
E
Can you explain/elaborate further?
I know right!
@@The_whalesbasically saying the F word
Here’s an idea: Why didn’t Cuba and Puerto Rico become independent during the Spanish American wars of Independence in the early 19th century?
US wanted puppet states
My guess is that they were actually Crown lands thus it was a higher priority to keep compared the viceroys.
Because James Bisonette wanted them to not be independent
@@Toonrick12Being crown lands, they would also have a harder time seceding as they wouldn’t have a power structure neatly set up, like the SSRs in the USSR breakup or the other somewhat self governing colonies
The Cubans did try to become independent afaik. There was a movement called the "Suns and Rays of Bolívar" that wanted to kick the Spanish out of Cuba and join Gran Colombia. It never happened because I think the colonial authorities caught them before they did something
3:08. Sploosh! Greatest Hokusai tribute ever!
Last time I was this early Austria still had a coastline
Where?? Crimea?? 🧐
@@jackcoleman5955 Yugoslavia.
Trieste was the major port city of the Austro-Hungarian navy. You can find film footage from the sinking of the battleship SMS Szent István on UA-cam.
that's a good one
Pre mega-asteroid, no doubt.
When war doesn't go on the axis side:
*Switcharoo it is*
Bulgaria and Romania have joined the chat.
Italy:
@@michiru2hell civil war
They stay with japan till the end of ww2, but the have good enough of reason to make them survive
Fun fact: Even though Thailand declared war on both the US and British Empire, the declaration of war never made it to the US government. This was because our ambassador to the US, Seni Pramoj refused to side with the government and decided to organise an anti-Phibun and anti-Axis resistance known as the Seri Thai (Free Thai) Movement. Also, Seni later became the prime minister during the late 1940s after Khuang Aphaiwong and then more prominently, in the 1970s.
Everyone in Thai high command including Marshal P realized that Japan would fall soon, so they let Khuang take power with Pridi's and Seni's blessings.
That ended up being Thailand’s saving grace, since as far as the U.S. was concerned, Thailand had committed no act of aggression and thus were willing to talk the British down from exacting stronger concessions after the war.
Here’s a question that’s always intrigued me; what were the Ottomans and the Americans up to during the Napoleonic Wars? Because neither of them get much press, despite being pretty significant powers at the time?
As always, awesome video! ❤️
For the US, we were attempting to invade Canada. It did not end well.
The Americans were buying Louisiana from Napoleon and went to war with Britain in 1812 because Britain kept press ganging US citizens.
Ottomans were in war with Serbia,Montenegro and Russia.
@@ChaoticEmperor01White House down moment
The USA one is pretty obvius, invasion of canada, buying of the french territories etc. But the Ottomans is interesting, because except of the early napoleonic wars i have no idea what were they doing.
The spoofing and homage of Katsushika Hokusai's The Great Wave print ** at the end of this very interesting episode was very delightful. Hope to see more of it.
** The Great Wave off Kanagawa, from Hokusai's Thirty Six Images of Mt. Fuji (c. 1830 - 1832).
Phibun has to be one of the funniest leaders of WWII. He was an absolute Thai nationalist but also lead a program to teach the people of then-Siam how to use utensils, despite the long tradition of using one's hands in the region. Phibun also sent a declaration of war to the United States, but his ambassador "lost" it.
Oh, and he was half-Cantonese.
More like good ol' trickery by chad Pleak
His family name is Phibunsongkram, not just Phibun. He had to literally create a nation from scratch to fulfill his nationalism. That's why he changed the name Siam to the name Land of the Free (Thai-land).
He wanted the Thai to be civilized (westernized) to avoid colonisation on the ground that they were an inferior race. His government worked on the following topics:
-use of ustensiles to eat
-no bare boobs on the streets
- western clothing with hat for the men
-no goods carried on the head
-created a word to salute each other : sawatdee khrap
-created words to say yes khrap and kha, no more "o-oh"
- created a national dress
-created a national meal : Phat Thai
-created Thai words for every English word that didn't exist in Thai (funny in our time, the Thai got a tendency to revert to the English words LoL)
etc.
@@BangFarang1 interesting,thanks
@@BangFarang1 I object on the grounds that he covered up the bare boobs
@@BangFarang1 is he also the reason the national anthem plays in public places at 8am every day?
Good follow-up video ideas:
1. Why didn’t Thailand fall to communism like the rest of their neighbors?
2. Why did Thailand avoid colonization by the Europeans?
I assume with 1 it was because the US had troops and bases there and Kittikachorn was in bed with the US
(yes I googled his name)
ᵀʰᵉʸ ᵈᶦᵈⁿ'ᵗ ᵍᵉᵗ ᵀʰᵃᶦˡᵃⁿᵈ
Maybe because monarch's power still strong, and communist in Thailand got something like witch hunting and almost all of them are killed or surrendered. What I exactly know is at that time anti-communist propaganda is every where.
@@jabber1990 Yeah that and it's very helpful to have the same fascist dictator who hates communism from WW2 running the country XD
1. Thailand was an airbase for American during Vietnam war, Thai leaders were anti communist/pro monarchist that was back by American
2. Careful diplomacy balancing between French and British empire by Thai government and both powers prefer having Thailand as buffer state between them
That end credit, it's beautiful. Also Sploosh
I am Japanese and I love Thailand. We are equal friends. Japan and Thailand were never colonies of the West. I am proud of it. I wish Thailand happiness.
Thais also love Nihon-jin. We are brothers. We also wish Japanese happiness😊
There's a monument in Bangkok called "Victory Monument" commemorating Thailand's territory gains against Vichy France in 1941 (even though they had to give land back after WWII)
Fun fact, they lost the battle against the French but they won this little war and gained the territorries.
@@BangFarang1 No Thailand didn't lost the war with Vichy France. Thailand lost the Battle of Ko Chang French Navy but won over the land area. The France army 321 was killed while Thailand only 54 that got killed.
@@pichupuche2474 และได้ยึดธงชัยเฉลิมพลของฝรั่งเศษมาได้ 1
@@unirax8628ปีนั้นนายพลฝรั่งถึงกับต้องมาเจรจาขอธงคืน
As a Thai, I've been waiting for this moment my entire life.
As someone who's spent time as an expat, I've been waiting too : P
seems like a lot of southeast asian countries (outside vietnam which is only famous because of the americans) are happy when anyone remembers they exist at all despite a huge amount of people living there.
@@sovietunion7643Of course we would. I'm glad to know not all westerners think of only China or Japan or Korea when someone mentions something with the word "Asia" in it.
There was also a shadow government, briefly mentioned in the video, that did a lot of heavy lifting when it came to disposing of the Phibunsongkhram, and negotiating in secret with the Allies throughout the war.
A lot of the leniency they received was in no small part due to the underground help they provided the Allies, while also slightly undermining Japan by not really following through on doing what Japan wanted from them. Think of them as Italy was to the Germans, dragging their heals and needed help to do things.
Thailand was looking useful for the US for cotaining communism, and Britain was more concerned about saving its asian colonies from famine than punishing a minor Axis nation (And thus demanded rice shipments as reparations). France was pretty upset but was in a position of weakness compared to the US and UK and didn't really have a choice in the matter.
They're playing their role to Japan like Bulgaria (a militarist semi-constitutional monarchy wanting seeking to take their lost lands), Romania (who later on doing an internal coup and siding with the Allies), and Italy (playing a secondary power to their great power ally in their main theater) to Germany lol
Pridi Bhanomyong and The Seri Thai. I was surprised there was no mention at all of that.
I didn’t ask. I never knew. But I’m nonetheless glad to learn about this.
The is the synopsis for a majority of History Matters uploads, and I absolutely love it.
Didn’t expect to see you here
So your a history nerd as well?
As a history buff, I'm surprised this is the first time I've ever learned this. Thank you for your chsnnel continuing to be awesome.
There was actually a fairly serious (if small) naval battle between the French and the Thais!
I've been to the fort that The French battleship sailed past, though in order to film on a ship museum that's there. Last year I also translated and recorded voices for a live re-enactment of the battle which was performed by some colleagues of mine at the actual fort. I was too busy to participate, unfortunately. @@MM22966
History buff is still a cringe word
@@balabanasireti Buffers ARE suspicious!
@@MM22966 การการรบทางอาศกาศด้วยครับครั้งแรกของเอเชียตะวันออกเฉียงใต้ แต่ไทยแพ้
I just want to say that the "simplified, HM-style" version of The Great Wave off Kanagawa with the Patreon supporters is a welcome surprise. Switching it up, I love it.
Mate I actually love you. Best UA-cam channel ever
0:11 the frenchman is holding a Chauchat machine-gun, reviled as one of the worst-designed and worst-manufactured ever
Thais were funny bunch of people even in WW2. People actually moved to the city to see US bombers instead of evacuate. We fought with both Alies and Axis and also on side with them at the same time.
This running deep in Thais DNA. We are funnily bold, Slip tougue, peaceful to a certain point, conflicting and sperate in various factions with ourselves, but will unite when there's outside threat.
The modern relations between the Kingdom of Siam. (The name was changed to Thailand in 1939.) and the Empire of Japan was established in 1887, but the close relations began during the 1930s. After the 1932 Siamese Revolution which transformed Absolute Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy, the Siamese government improved the relations with Japan. According to many academic researches, since the absolute government had a close relations with Western Great Powers, Britain and France, so the new post - revolution government improved the relations with Japan with the intention to guarantee the stability and international recognition of the government. In the same way, Japan, saw the opportunity to reduce the role of Britain and France in the region, so the close relations began. During the period, Thailand had cooperated many things with Japan. Thailand began the industrialization with Japan as a model. Many students were awarded the scholarship to study in Japan. And there was also the military cooperation. With the high nationalistic sentiment at the time, and the Fall of France to Nazi Germany in 1940, Thai government sent the troops to the French - occupied Indochina to take the territories which Siam lost to France during the reign of King Rama V (1853 - 1910 reigned 1868 - 1910) back. This led to the Franco - Thai War which was consisted of ground, naval, and aerial warfare. Most of warfare between both sides occurred in the Northeast region of Thailand and in the French - occupied areas in Indochina. One of the most well known events of this war, moreover than the first aerial warfare in Thai history, was the naval battle between Thai and French battleships near Ko Chang (Battle of Ko Chang) in the eastern sea of Thailand.
The war ended in May 1941 (began in October 1940) after the negotiation between two sides mediated by the officers from the Empire of Japan was concluded. France had to cede some areas to Thailand. Thailand made those areas to be a provinces of Thailand and ruled them between 1941 - 1946. After the World War II ended, Thailand had to cede those areas back to France. Today, they are parts of Laos and Cambodia. The The Victory Monument in Bangkok was built to dedicate to those who lost their lives in this war. After this war, Japan and Thailand had a closer relations.
In 1941, Thailand was invaded by the Japanese troops. Despite a little resistance by the Thai military and police officers and the "Youth Soldiers", especially in the Southern Thailand, to avoid the mass destruction, the Thai government decided to become the ally of the Empire of Japan. The Japanese established the troops in the country, while Thailand could retain the independence and the freedom to control the internal affairs. Japan is the first country which Thailand establishes the ambassadorial level of relations and the diplomatic representative is the ambassador. Before that time, the Siamese representatives in Europe were mostly the legations to many European nations. During this time, the Japanese troops from Thai bases had the critical role to the vicotry of Japan in the invasion of Burma, Malaya, Singapore and Ducth East Indies. Many British, American, and Dutch POWs were captured and forced to work in the construction of the notorious Death Railway in Kanchanaburi Province in the west of Thailand. Even Thailand faced less hardship than many Asian territories which were occupied by the Japanese. There were hardships from the economy and the attacks from the Allied forces to the Japanese bases in the country.
After Thailand and Japan became ally before the Pacific theater of the World War II began, Thailand should be one of Axis powers. However, due to the actions of Free Thai Movement, a group of Thai people who disagreed with the government's commitment with the Imperial Japan and cooperated secretly with the Allied powers in many ways such as intelligence during the war, Thailand became a neutral after the war ended and the country, including the government did not faced the punishments from the Allied powers as other Axis nations faced. Thailand just paid some little reparations to Britain and France, sent a rice to Britain to feed the people in British Colonies, and returned the territories it occupied after 1941 Franco - Thai war and 1942 Japanese occupation of Burma/Malaya back to Britain and France. Those territories are parts of Myanmar, Malaysia, Laos and Cambodia in the present.
As the legacy of Japanese brutality during the war was less than other Asian countries, and many Thai people have had the positive view to the Japanese since the close relation era in the 1930s, Thailand becomes one of the most pro - Japanese countires in Asia. The positive feeling increased during the 1980s when Japanese companies invested many projects in Thailand, created a thousands of jobs, and made Thailand become the middle income nation in the 1990s. Japan also invested in many infrasturcture project, such as the MRT train. The Japanese cultural products, movies, series, Mangas, Animes and Pop songs are also very popular. Many songs were translated into Thai language. Even there are more competitions from China in investment and from South Korea in entertainment industry in recent years, Japan is still regarded as one of the most favourite countries in the view of many Thai people.
Fun Facts:
1. There was a Japanese warrior named Yamada Nagamasa, who was the ruler of Nakhon Sri Thammarat in Southern Siam during the Ayutthaya period.
2. The building of the Royal Thai Embassy in Tokyo is formerly the house of Pujie, the younger brother of Emperor Puyi, the last emperor of China. Pujie married Hiro Saga, the Japanese noblewoman.
3. There is Thai businessman named Boonpong Sirivejjabhandu who secretly supplied the medicines for the POWs during the World War II.
4. There is a Thai classical novel named "คู่กรรม Khu Gam" or "The Sun Sets At Chao Phraya". It is about the love between Japanese soldier named Kobori and Thai woman named Angsumalin. It has been adapted into movies and TV dramas for many versions.
5. Thailand also has the sister group of AKB48. BNK48 is Thai version and one of many "Sister Groups" of AKB48, the idol girl group originated from Japan. They become popular after the great success of Thai version of "Koi Suru Fortune Cookie" which was released in late 2017. The song became popular, became national phenomenon and also made the Group become national phenomenon. Today, the MV of the song has more than 190 million views. This number is nearly as equal as the MV of original Japanese version and the number is still increasing. Many of their other songs also have more than 10 - 20 million views. After the great success, the Group becomes popular and many members have many works, such as being invited as the guests in many TV shows (They also have their own TV variety shows.), being presenters in many TV advertisements and being actresses in many movies, TV dramas ("ละคร Lakorn" in Thai. Many of the members had some acting careers before becoming the Group's members.) and TV series. After the great success of Thai version of "Koi Suru Fortune Cookie", the group becomes very popular and has the expansion with the debut of the 2nd Generation in 2018, the 3rd Generation in 2022 and the 4th Generation in 2023 and the debut of CGM48 in 2020. CGM48 is the Sister Group of both AKB48 and CGM48 based in Chiang Mai, one of the biggest cities in Northern Thailand. And the group is also the first Sister Group of Oversea Sister Group. There are also a sub - units, Mimigumo, debut in 2019, eRaa and QRRA debut in 2023.
I am hoping to see Thailand make an appearance as a minor Red Axis member in Azur Lane and how Thailand fits in the world of Azur Lane. I too lived in Bangkok and Kanchanaburi in the 90’s. My father wrote the book of ‘Captive over the river Kwae’. I met some veterans from both sides and eventually visited both UK and Japan. So yes, the Thai feeling for the Japanese is real. Even growing up and the eventual return trip to Thailand was similar modeled to the Japanese in schools, public transport and even anime mascots.
Oh boy another episode of History matters about something I have no idea about but so interested in
As a Thai historian, please let me presented some points missed in the video here.
This video misses two important points. The first one is that the anti-colonial and nationalist trend that was surging throughout Southeast Asia then. Siam/Thailand had just emerged from a revolution which was democratic and nationalist in nature. The leaders of the revolution, including Pibul himself, saw Japan as a fellow Asian nation that could modernize quickly to the point that it can compete European powers, and hoped that Japan would help driving the European out of SEA. The second point is that the British unpreparedness for war. The British once proposed to Siam to join the Allies in an upcoming war. However, the Siamese envoys in Singapore reported that the British troop there and in Malaya was by any means unready for war and it would be impossible for them to win a war if it was invaded by Japan.
When the Japanese invasion of Siam began, the cabinet debated whether to officially join the war on the side of Axis, or just do nothing more than allowing the Japanese free passage. Pibul pointed out to the cabinet that the Japanese were going to win, and the nation should joy in order to get some war spoils shared. Indeed, the Japanese didn’t win. Pibul was removed from power when the tide turned against Japan, though not by a military coup but a vote of censure instead. The power was then handed to the pro-allied Free Thai factions before Pibul got into power after a coup some years later.
Could you speak as to the fascist or ultranationalist sentiments of the military wing at the time and if it contributed much to policy decisions?
@@ddobefaest9334 Indeed. Pibul was himself a militarist and a nationalist, which made him looks a bit like a fascist. He had Japan as a model for development, modernization, and the anti-European colonialism diplomacy. But it should be taken in mind that the Japanese version of fascism (or imperialism) was with a different tone from the European versions.
@@paritchi Thank you very much. If it's not too much trouble, could you offer perhaps three of the greatest aspects where those forms of fascism/imperialism differ from each other?
any of these are just used as a tool for leaders to get man power for war from their vassels and citizens
They should really make a TV series about all this.
We are Asian Italy.
I was thinking that because you both played off the whole Axis thing by making delicious food around the world 😂
You mean asian italy and switzerland
We are Thailand ❤ Japan
No, Japan in WW2 was asiatic Italy and there was no asiatic Germany. Now in terms of industrial production, South Korea is asiatic Italy.
You are more like asiatic Romania
thai is thai . dont compare euro
0:43 How many takes did it take you to say that one correctly?
Almost correct but extremely great for English speaker👍
Never did I see the day when I could watch history matters in 4k and I'm not complaining.
I wish there'll be a video covering about the last Japanese military operation in 1945 that gave "independence" to Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos from the returning status quo of France in Asia.
Didn't they also successfully hold/defeat the Vietcong back under UK command? And the French demanded it back, returning they did the French-thing and lost!
@@memofromessex Yes, but that was a post-WWII conflict. The Japanese coup d'etat in Indochina I'm talking about is a military operation that took place from March to May of 1945, four or five months before the surrender of Imperial Japan.
Don't forget Burma. Aung San negotiated with The Japanese to liberate them from The British, then realised The Japanese were even worse and led resistance against them.
I love how you pronounce Plaek Phibunsongkhram with uninterrupted smoothness, near-perfection.
Every other video I learn about another axis member
First, well done on a very reasonably correct pronunciation of Plaek Phibul Songkhram. I was surprised there was no mention of Pridi Bhanomyong who, while initially being one of the chief architects of the revolution that ended absolute monarchy alongside Phibul Songkhram, was in exile due to political disagreement. He intercepted the declaration of war sent to The United States and with American aid founded The Seri Thai resistance which undermined Japanese operations while The Allies prepared for a big push to reclaim Burma-which where The Japanese were also being undermined by resistance forces led by Aung San, and Karen malitias. OK, that part would have been out of the scope of this video, but I still thought there would have been a mention of Pridi Bhanomyong. That said, great overview of the situation. And some of that territory ceded to France was still a sticking issue up to this century when The International Court had to rule on which side of the border Preah Vihear sits on.
fun fact: Plaek Phibunsongkhram didn"t remove out of government by force, but remove with motion of no confidence by Parliment for responding of severe economic problems and for buliding new capital city in Phetchabun province (in case of bangkok lost to allied invasion ). which cost a thousond of worker and labour who died form malaria.
It's always a good day when you have a new HM video 🎉
Your rendering of Hokusai’s Great Wave off Kanagawa is amazing.
You uploaded this on my birthday!👍🤟🤘✊️🙏🇯🇵🇹🇭
May your day be a special one 🎉
@@guydreamr Thank you man! I really appreciated that!👍
Hey man, happy Bday :D
@migueltejada2776 Thank you so much brother! I really appreciate it!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Not to pretend it was benevolent but Cambodian lands were not "robbed" by France. Rather, they were put under a protectorate following a request of the Cambodian ruler, then answering to the Siam king at the time, as Siam and Annam (Vietnam) were tearing his territory and people apart.
Cambodia was not independent since quite some time, which motivated the request.
It would be like calling Egypt’s status an invasion.
Thank you for making this mini-documentary about Thailand in WWII. My grandfather was actually a young Lieutenant at the start of the war, and fought against the Japanese. Towards the end of the war he actually took part in the coup that ousted Phibunsongkhram from power. It's worth noting that Thailand had two primary branches to its military: The Regular Army, and the Royal Thai Army (which was loyal to the King of Thailand, not the military dictatorship). My grandfather was in the Royal Thai Army, which is basically the "professional" branch of the military with marines, rangers, and special forces. It was because of the coup that Thailand was not treated as an axis power in WWII - since the nation actively rebelled and overthrew a dictatorship allied with Japan, and then Thailand also fought against the Japanese at the end of the war. My grandfather never talked about fighting the French, however, so I don't know what he was doing at that point (maybe he was still in training).
I only learned about this after my grandfather died because he had to hide his involvement in the coup when Phibunsongkhram came back to power. By that point my grandfather had managed to get himself promoted to 2-Star General and was helping the US fight Communism in Vietnam.
As a Thai, I thank you for covering this.
As a human in general, thanks too. 👍
Woohoo new vid!
Great video! I love my country’s representation on history UA-cam. For those wondering why the borders of Thailand actually doesn’t have those French provinces anymore, in 1946 the French demanded their return. As France was a member of the UN, it threatened to veto Thailand’s membership otherwise.
Generally, the early modern history of Indochina is an underrated part of world history. Sadly, it is mostly conflict but provides great context for the Vietnam War. Fun fact: did you know Thailand also fought in that war?
See also:
1) Anuvong’s Rebellion
2) Siamese-Vietnamese War
3) History of French Indochina
4) Paknam Incident
5) Franco-Thai War
I'm Thai and I've been WAITING for this one thank you so much!
If you played Hearts of Iron IV, there is a new Siam/Thai mod there, with proper research for the historical occurance of the country during the 2nd World War.
Look up "Legacy of Ayutthaya"
Great Video, Love the Channel.
Great video! Could you maybe also do one about why Thailand joined WWI on the side of the entente?
French political, economic, and technological power were at their apogee on the eve of World War I. The British Empire was no slouch either, to put it mildly. Thailand was in the early stages of modernization and reform, and seemed to be focused on building things like railways and canals in this time period. A war with two of the leading powers of the entire world which were Thailand's neighbors wouldn't have been smart. Of course they are gonna join the entente.
@@stevens1041 By the time the Siamese troops arrived, the war was over. They were just on time for the big allied parade in Paris. 4 of them got their flying license thou, being the first Siamese aviators. And Siam could become member of the Société des Nations.
@@BangFarang1 1 Thailand is an ally of America and the Soviet Union.
2 Thailand beats the best French unit. and capture the flag of this force
3 If Thailand does not join the UN, Thailand will not return the flag of France's best special forces unit.
It was considered a disgrace to the French soldiers at the time. Because they also lost to Germany.
This was Thai diplomacy in those days.
@@การรบการทหาร We are speaking about the first world war WWI 1914-1918.
Thailand and Japan also fought on December 8th, 1941. However, that only lasted a few hours, less than Germany's invasion of Denmark.
It’s not often that I get to see the country where I was born, my country of nationality and the one where I lived for 5 years be mentioned in one History Abridged video
Who’s the doctor patron guy lol you’re a GOAT
FINALLY, A QUESTION I ALWAYS ASKED MYSELF
tyvm for another upload
🇨🇦😁
2:22 hahah this pic made me laugh out loud
great video! keep up the good work!
"Soon" and these eyes are the highlight of every video ='D
Thailand had sent a declaration of war to the Thai ambassador in the United States, but the Thai ambassador in the United States had never sent it to Franklin D. Roosevelt.
And Thailand also has FreeThai
and has never been in the Axis, but has only been an ally of the Japanese Empire.
Please do a video on he following subjects:
1. Why did the Revolution of 1848 fail in the German states and Spain?
2. Why do people drive on different sides of the road in different countries?
1. (Revelation)
For reference, Thailand is the only Southeast Asian country that did not become a colony of the Japanese Empire.
I have a question;
How did the monarchies of europe react to the execution of charles the 1st?
Why didnt they intervene like they did in the french revolution?
Because the 30 years war had just ended and all countries were weary of war.
@johnohman6638 OK, do you think there were other reasons?
@@catalost Probably that they were broke from that war and so couldn’t intervene even if they wanted to and the English Channel being a barrier for enemy invasions. Plus it was a strictly internal dispute over Charles I specifically and not an attempt to completely upend the monarchy like the French Revolution. Speaking of Charles I wife who was French wasn’t executed with him like Marie Antoine (Austrian) was during the French Revolution. For Austria who effectively called a lot of the shots during the War of the First Coalition, that was their main justification.
@emberfist8347 OK, thanks for the reply.
Yeah I also thought it was because France was on the main continent so maybe revolution was more likely to spread from there compared to britian which was an island
@@catalostI think it was because England wasn't Catholic nor Protestant (Ok, they were technically the latter, but they didn't line up with Lutheranism) so neither side cared about who won or lost their head.
Plus, the British isles weren't really important in the 17th century as they where in the pervious century or the following centuries.
Loving your use of the famous sploosh painting
Will you make a video about Generalplan Ost or one of the Reichskommisariats?
Awesome as always!)
Thailand declared war on Allies after Bangkok had been bombed for 2 weeks by Us and Britain. US and Britain began attacking Bangkok on January 7, 1942, a month after Japan had invaded Thailand. The Thai government declared war on the Allies on January 20.
There is a nice museum in Phrae, Thailand that is dedicated to the Thai Freedom Fighters that resisted Japanese occupation.
0:01 I completely agree, no one finds Thailand disgusting for joining Axis. And it's disgusting.
I mean idk It’s too much for me to take in
They get depicted as Japanese puppet similar to other minor Axis nations like Slovakia, Hungary, and Bulgaria.
What do you mean by 'disgusting'? Thailand is the victim in this situation. This is just a briefing, not the whole picture of Thailand's suffering during Western colonization in Asia by France and England.
Siam lost its territory in the South to England, a piece of land that was half of Malaya. England started by renting Penang from Siam and ended up taking it all for themselves, acquiring more land over time.
Eventually, Siam and England reached an agreement that Siam wouldn't attack or attempt to take back Malaya, and should not establish an army base in the South of the country. If anything happened, England would handle it. Siam agreed to this, but it was England that broke the agreement.
When Japan attacked, and just to clarify, they did attack Thailand( thousand were dead in injuried both sides ) as well after committing genocide in China, there was no help from England. The only thing they did was provide a one-day earlier warning from Churchill!
Fortunately, Thailand wasn't that naive. They implemented what's called the Military Youth Program in the South as a precaution. They fought bravely; otherwise, Japan might not have shown any respect and simply taken over Thailand. Instead, they negotiated.
For more information, you can google for the Battle of Prachuap Khirikhan. If this incident had happened in another country, it would likely be a whole chapter in a history book. However, due to the delicate relationship between Japan and Thailand, it's only briefly mentioned. If Thailand would seek revage on the allies all the allies soldier that Japanese force them to work in the bridge of river Kwai would have been dead! the one who survive are because of the kindness of Thai people.
@@lucca_lee Thailand still joined the rapist side.
@@lucca_leeit's a joke, the subtitles say 'disgusting'
Thailand under Phibunsongkhram mounted a very much forgotten invasion of China soon after Pearl Harbor, because the Xishuangbanna/Sipsongpanna region was mostly populated by Dai/Tai/Thai speakers. This invasion immediately stalled and the Thai pulled back.
Thailand never declared war on the United States only the UK and France. That technicality allowed the Thai government to survive after the war.
They senft a declaration of war, but the Thai ambassador being against the Thai dictatorship did'nt deliver it to the US authorities.
@@BangFarang1 Shout out to Seni Pramoj
While Phibun did try to declare war on the U.S., the Thai Ambassador (and future post-war PM) Seni Pramoj decided he wouldn't deliver it. The declaration was therefor not official.
2:31 I am Thai can I study about Thailand's involvement in world war 2 but I felt like Thailand dictatorship are Ultra nationalist at the time and they did have somebody who doesn't like their idea, called Free Thai.
Actually Free Thai is people of Thailand that doesn't like their government so they cooperate with the allies
The background towards the end of the video, is both very made, yet hilarious. Specifically the SPLOOSH sign. 😂
So in the end Thailand preserved eastern territorial gains? With their minor participation in the war, I'd see this as an absolute win. Also, Thailand's ww2 history sounds suprisingly familiar to the one of Bulgaria 😮
I always assumed all they had to do was claim that they didn't like Japan and they got to keep all their stuff
Thailand did eventually return the Indochina territories to France in exchange for France to not veto the memberships. Not like the French get to hold those territories long anyway.
Plaek Pibun Songkram (แปลก พิบูลสงคราม) was a very unique figure in Thai history. Most Thai know very little about him or how his legacy affects Thai even today. He was part of the army coup in 1932 that overthrew the Thai king. His first name spelled in English "Plaek" is actually แปลก and pronounced closer to BPLAAK with an aa sound like bat or hat spoken by Americans. His surname "Songkram" is actually pronounced Song-Krahm (in Thai สงคราม) and literally means "war" in Thai. An appropriate surname for a soldier, ironically given to him by King Rama VII. Pibun was heavily influenced by Mussolini, Hitler and Chiang Kai-Shek and the Japanese militarists and he thought fascism was the up and coming political "thing" in the world and the Thai ALWAYS wanted to be in line with the big boys. Pibun wanted Thai to be more Westernized and invented many Thai language expressions most Thai think have been Thai forever - the famous สวัสดี Suh-wuht Dee (literally "good fortune") which is the universal Thai greeting only came into use in the late 1930's - Thai up until then said Sabai-Dee สบายดี ("good health") like the Lao of today still do. He promoted martial first names for boys like Thong-Chai (Victory Flag - an equivalent to a British or American name "Victor" or "Victoria"). Although almost no Thai realize it (or care) his most famous verbal invention was the Thai drinking toast "Chai Yoh" ชัยโย shortened in written Thai to ชโย Chuh Yoh which literally means "Hail Victory" which of course Pibun copied from Herr Hitler's "Sieg Heil". He also tried to mandate men kiss their wives goodbye upon leaving for work and for women to wear hats all the time outside - one princess said he can put the hat on her severed head! Pibun of course was worried about the Japanese and the British strongly encouraged him to resist their charms but when he asked the Brits for weapons they had none to give in the late 1930's. Pibul ordered a few excellent cruiser ships from Italy and aircraft from the USA including Curtis Hawk versions of the US Army P-36 but when Thailand invaded Cambodia and Laos in very late 1940 to get back some of what had been stolen by the by then Nazi occupied Vichy French the US State Department blocked the sales. The French had treated Thailand shamelessly as the French then to do and the Thai took advantage when they were weak. Fair play. There is a very large monument in central Bangkok at a huge intersection roundabout called The Victory Monument which all Thai will tell you celebrates the Thai victory as an Ally in World War One but it in fact was built to celebrate their victory over the French in 1940!
Interesting hearing about Thailand's involvement in the Second World War - can't say I had any idea about it... that is, until now. Thanks for the great vid!
Thailand won the war on the side of Allies later
TLDR;
The French: YOU LOST! THAILAND PAY UP!
The Brits: YOU LOST! THAILAND PAY UP!
The Americans: They're with me bitches.
and the rest is history
Had no idea about this, also thought the country was still Siam back then but the name change happened in 1939.
Love the Sploosh!
Thank you for this video. I was a history major and had no idea Thailand was in the Axis…even if only nominally. Interesting. Very interesting! (And yes, I meant that to be a Laugh-In reference :) )
My step grandmother (grandpa’s second wife, his first wife was my bio grandma) is from Thailand and she was born about two years after WWII ended.
She didn’t experience this alliance/occupation, but her folks definitely did.
Pity they’re long gone because I’d be interested to ask them about it from their perspective.
There used to be a bomb shelter preserved in Lumphini Park in Bangkok, which people used during the allied bombings, but it seems to have been quietly removed at some point.
@@WaterShowsProd I think most places had bomb shelters during that era.
Still interesting though,
Yes, but this was maintained into the early 2000s for people to learn about the bomb raids during the war. But then they got rid of it at some point. @@bladeobrian2144
The Japanese painting at the end is a nice touch.
3:15
S P L O O S H
P
L
O
O
S
H
As a Thai, We are really good at appealing to both sides. 😂
We allow Japanese access, but keep minimal help with fighting British, as mentioned in the video.
The new government they glace about at the end of the war were also come from 'Free Thai' resistant movement, who provided covert information to the British and the US. And many of them were government officials since during the war.
If it's a game, it's like letting rebel group allied with the allies during the war, then surrendered to them when Axis lost. A smooth side switch, we virtually neither win nor lose.
Imagine if Thailand could keep these French lands
They could join Bulgaria in the „club of Axis members who did nothing but became bigger after the war by playing both sides“
They didn't though, they gave back all the territories they took (the French ones were given back a bit later to allow Thailand to join the UN )
@@KaotikBOOO that's why I said "imagine if"
New outro background though... 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥👏👏
The territories that Thailand gained from France was later returned in 1946 when France threatened to veto Thailand admission to UN membership.
I never knew Thailand even joined the axis, great video
Lol showing "Foch"'s grave to describe the situation in France, "Oh Foch".
I had forgotten that Thailand was in the Axis.
I had read that somewhere along the way, but went "Huh. Interesting" and just carried on.
Now I'll want to do some reading about it, this is an interesting overview!
Didnt even know thailand was part of the axis
it kind of wasn't
Its like how China was part of the allies, its was but not really.
@@lokensicarius9347 China only played with the allies so they'd get rid of Japan
"the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
And Thailand is happy to keep it that way.
Always great when you upload
I love how Thailand turned Swiss as soon as they declared neutrality 😂
Me too. A subtle nod at their Axis leanings as Switzerland never participated in the war directly, but actively aiding the Germans.
If I remember correctly Phibun stepped down from power during his first term during the war because his government failed to pass two legislations (1. To establish a the Buddhist city, 2. To move to capital to petchabun). But the animation made it look like he was overthrown 2:47
Also you missed out on the free Thai which was another crazy story on its own and would’ve explain the situation and the outcome of the war on Thailand a bit better
The quality is getting better and better
I did not realize that Thailand even participated in ww2… yay learning new things!
They also sent a fighting force to Europe to join The Allied Forces during World War I, though they arrived late in the war. The Flying Tigers airforce division didn't get to participate because by the time their training was done the war was over, but the ground troops, while involved in only a handful of battles, was undefeated and participated in the march on Berlin.
Also: The Bridge On The River Kwai is based on the construction of a Japanese rail line through Thailand to connect with another section being simultaneously built in Burma, to connect Singapore to Rangoon during World War II. It's called The Thai-Burma "Death" Railroad because they say for every sleeper there is a corpse. The rail was build by POWs and conscripted labourers. There are harrowing accounts and several documentaries available on You Tube. Visiting Hellfire Pass is mind-blowing.
Didnt want to but it came to Thailand anyway. the brifing dont mention that Japan did invade Thailand and Thailand did fight back you can google Japanese invasion of Thailand if you like to know more, it part of history that even Thai people forget and maybe it better this way cause both country got good relation now and its for the best. But I still feel sad for those who lost their life or loves one it nearly 1000 estimated both side and it happen the same as as Pearl Harbour, people know about Pearl Harbour or Darwin Australia but not this.