Did Joe Satriani copy Frances Limon? Let's Do the Music Theory!
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
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In Dec. 2008, world renown guitarist, Joe Satriani, initiated legal action against top concert act , (and recent Grammy winners), "Coldplay." Satriani is claiming that Coldplay pilfered the; chord harmony, rhythm & meter, and the melody from his 2004 song "If I Could Fly."
However... Some people on the internet have accused that Satriani actually ripped off his chords & melody ideas from the song, "Frances Limon," by the band ENANITOS VERDES. Let's take a look at both songs and see how close they really are in melody and harmony.
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Hello elihudiaz,
I never mean't that comment in my video here as meaning that Frances Limon was a Kid Band or anything off the cuff toward their music.
What I mean't was that the small segment of the melody I was looking at was just so linear, I probably should have actually said "Classical sounding." I don't know why I said, "Children's Melody...(?)"
I think the sound and the music of Frances Limon is just amazing... very cool stuff.
Thanks for watching,
Andrew Wasson
I think it's funny how Satriani ripped off Limon and Coldplay ripped off Satriani. So it's like we've be listening to the same song for like generations.
Enanitos Verdes did it first!
Enanitos verdes should put in Jail Satriani!
xD
hahahahahah
just Kidding
But Satriani, did copy them!
VIVAN LOS ENANITOS VERDES! :D
ENANITOS VERDES FOR EVER! :D
I totally agreed with you on your first video with coldplay copying Satriani, but here man...what are you talking about?? Ok, I agree that music theory might tell you differently...but come on!! It sounds almost exactly the same!!!! I hope it is not the fact that Enanitos is a Latin band...that would be so wrong. Satriani should share part of his compensation with them it is obvious he got the inspiration from them.
Thanks, Andrew, for trying to bring some actual logic and hard theory to these debates. Unfortunately, as some of the posters on here show, many people will believe what they want to believe, no matter what actual evidence you bring to the table.
Hello Whinesilencer,
That is the Roland GK 20 Synth controller for my Roland GR 20 Midi Guitar Rig.
- Andrew
Nice guitar looks very custom, hot rails in the bridge and neck? What is that black thing on your guitar?The thing that extends to the tremolo. Is it a mic?
Dude, these two melodies are similar for about a measure, but then they go in totally different directions, Satriani in a more upbeat direction, Enanitos Verdes in a spanish/minor direction. The coldplay one, however, is nearly exactly the same. Watch this guy's video on it.
If anyone on earth thinks they have found a note progression that has never happened before, they don't listen to enough music.
@cheloba1 -yes it seems. He must be fair when doing analysis like this because i can sense the bias he has for Joe. Frances Limon is very much close to Joe's than coldplay if you'll listen closely. And I am a Satriani fan. I don't even like coldplay that much in the first place. So I guess my point of view on this is fair.
love your channel man!
i saw some vids of you about a year ago and i was dissapointed because you had less videos than you have now, keep making them!
listening to frances limon i think enanitos would have a way better chance at credit from coldplay satriani.
@alexkills well ok if the songs sound the same to you but the theoretical part that I told you in my last comment is the proof that satch wasn't trying to rip them of or anything, it's just that the melody and the harmony that is made by both of them wakes up the same feeling or emotions in you...that doesn't mean that the songs are ripped of.
I dont know who's vid it was, but he showed the harmonic similarities between the notes, although they maybe different. If i can find it i'll send it
It would appear that Coldplay does not plan to make nice with Joe Satriani by settling his infringement claim quietly; therefore, the matter will likely be decided in court over the next 2 (or more) years.
I have to agree with Nadine375 -with no disrespect at all, it seems like you are sitting on both sides of the fence. In this video you said that the Satriani line has somewhat of a pushing groove (something like that....you get my point), which the Coldplay doesnt. If anything, the vocal line in coldplay is more similar to Frances Limon. I still think its all silly only because I cant picture the guys in coldplay saying DUDE lets use that guitar line for a vocal melody. and im not even a fan
Open Source is a community effort, the person who originally started whatever software that's being expanded upon, chose to allow people to expand on it. He/she didn't have to but that was their choice. Totally different set of circumstances.
The only rights you have to it, are the rights they allow you to have to it, and nothing more... You can't charge money for it, because it's not yours... If you did, whoever ownes the rights to the original software would have the right to sue you.
if you think about it, its sounds a bit like that song its a beaufitul day, i dont know if thats the name of the song and i dont know the artist but the lyrics are like
hey what a day
like a painting by mony
hey what a day
its a beautiful day
i think the melody is a bit similar, so yea
And why do you think you have to publish source code with the changes? Is it part of the agreement maybe?
If the original author allows you to sell it, then that's their prerogative, but if they didn't want you to sell it, they would have the right to sue you for copyright infringement...
just as they have the right to sue you if you don't follow their requirements by publishing the source code with changes you've made.
It may be free, but you have to agree to abide by their provision.
@SuperHarvestMan Yeah I just noticed half of my comments are all jacked up. Please ignore them, because I have either screwed them all up or UA-cam misdirected the comments. Anyways, probably my fault, wasn't taking to you in the first place.
Hi Andrew,
I hear some similarities between "Frances Limon" and "La Belle Dame Sans Regrets" by Sting. And, actually, also with the jam track on your website. I'm a beginner, without sufficiant knowledge to understand why they seem similar. Do these 3 have something in common or am I off?
there's so many people in the world, that it's quite reasonable to say that someone could come up with the same idea at the the same time as someone else
Did you hear the first version of Technical difficulties from Racer X, Paul Gilbert composed, on the solo chord progresion the same chord progression shared in pink floyd's confotably numb. He heard it, and he changed the song. I he hadn't heard that, now Technical difficulties would be a copy, but more evident that all this. I think Joe didn't copy Enanitos verdes, and think nearly the same from Coldplay, but I have doubts on this case
Jrbrain...disagree....dont think Satch is out for extra cash. He said he head this tune and was shocked....he created If i could fly....and wrote it for his wife...but mainly he created this beautiful piece of music, and then he hears someone copy it, add lyrics,,,so he has a right to sue based on the principle of the matter. He created the tune, so it is legally copyrighted, and if someone copies your music and makes money off your original idea, then royalties are due up front with permission
Yeah, but the melodic differences are just in the embellishments. The underlying melody is the same to the listener. One could say it's in a different key and that makes it different, or that it is faster and that makes it different. But the subjective feel the listener gets is identical between all the compared tunes, including the Cat Stevens one from 1973. Maybe not plagiarized, but subconsciously that basic primordial melody was in all of their heads-- they heard it somewhere before.
Wasson, I must say I disagree with you on your conclusion in both this video and the one regarding cat stevens. Yes, your analysis is not flaw and is well thought out. however, the only thing preventing "Viva.." from "If I could..." and yes, "Frances..." and "Foreigner..." is the minute technicalities that you point out. Those may bew enought for formal law proceedings, but I must say that the lay listener pretty much hears these songs (not to mention the song by Creaky Boards) as the same tune.
can you do a video on how to improvise and on how to find out what the key of a song is
It seems like people are sort of looking for the similarities here. There are some, but there are similarities b/t millions of songs. There are only 12 notes in the scale and a finite amount of ways to combine them so of course you'll get similarities b/t songs.
It's not only chord progression. We're talking about exact tempo and pattern; and melodies that are almost identical. In the case of satriani vs codlplay, seems coldplay just put lyrics to joe's song. Like "singing the guitar melody"
Thanks to these videos now i know how to not plagiarize anyone's song, but be inspired by that melody and change it for my own purposes.
Gee thanks !
Good videos and superb Andrew.
Well, Joe was going to have his lawyer announce at the grammys that he was taking them to court. But Coldplay didn't want that for obvious reasons. So now that they have their grammy for their (most likely) one hit wonder they think they can poop on Joe Satch?
What happened with the lawsuit? Is it still in court?
Even in the middle ages artists were striving to make money off their art... Art was the main source of income for some towns from the socially elite...
Churches commissions artists all the time, and provided food, shelter, and money.
I didn't say artists always made money, I said they always wanted to make money off their art.
Since when is trying to make money off your talentsconsidered greedy anyway?
Though you are trying to analyze the three songs which are in question, you critiqued the song by the argentine group instead of fully invoking its nature; if i want to read or hear a critic then I'll buy a mag.
I really like your videos. It kind of shows that music can sound the same without ill intention. Or one tiny change can cause a lawsuit to be thrown out of court. I like how you go through everything bit by bit.
awesome as usual! I liked it and it cleared my doubts about the 2 tunes thanks :-)
It's all of the emails I get on this crazy comparison thing... that's the REAL, "when this is gonna end...' part of it all... I'm officially done on this topic!
R.I.P. to Song Comparisons for this guy !!
There's nothing moral about an artists work being stolen and some other yahoo cashing in on your idea either. That's why there are copyright infringement laws.
I doesn't matter if Coldplay stole the melody, or accidentally wrote the same melody. The one who has the copyright 1st is the winner, and needs to be paid.
Joe is clearly within his moral and legal rights to sue someone who is making bank on a melody he has copyrighten.
@jarredsutherland Did I say Coldplay is terrible? Really? I missed the part where I said anything even closely related to that.
However, I did say that "Coldplay DOES NOT suck just because they're popular". (In reply to the comment above mine). I don't think they're terrible at all. I said I give more respect to Satriani.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to have an unbiased, neutral opinion on a comment board without a troll like you putting words in my mouth. Just let it be, troll.
Another excellent video.
"i only said that musicians stopped to care about? the music and become greedy bastards"
I hate to burst your bubble, but in all the history of music and art, artists have always tried to make money off of their art.
Everything you listen to, watch, and enjoy as art, falls into this category or you wouldn't have the opportunity to enjoy them.
i never said these two songs were similar... i only said that you had to be deft (or biased) to say that these songs arent similar BUT coldplay's and satriani's are the same. In fact the 3 songs are similar for only a measure (indeed 3 melodic notes) and the rest.. similar chord progressions but i can mention 100 songs with that progression. come on! it's not like satriani wrote i am the walrus or anything truly original
so far, the only song similar to VLV ive heard is "the songs i didnt write"
I admit people do things for free all the time, however that is their choice and they have another angle where they make money.
You're naive if you think providing free programming is their ultimate goal. Unless they're living on an island where money is obsolete, they have a backdoor where they're making money.
Open source is totally different from stealing someones music, making millions off it, and thinking it ludicrous that the original artist wants their cut.
I'm surprised you never mention that you can't copyright chord changes. Somebody can come right out and say "Yes, I took my chord changes from THAT song" and the original artist can't sue you. That's why there's so many rhythm changes songs!
It's all about the melodies. The way Chris Martin did that same little push in his melody is what tipped me off that it was the same. However, I've often come up with a riff or melody, loved it, and realized it was some other song, so I can sympathize.
@MySupaFli I was agreeing with you. You can argue semantics and label these people what you like; I don't see how it changes what they are, though.
@funtochill431 So, what your saying is, that "ColdGay" fans (by the way, nice way to discredit yourself by insulting the band and their fans with a childish re-name) don't deserve the right to choose what they consider music. Is that correct? We should always go by your opinion and fall in line with what you enjoy.
You really have a lot of growing up to do.
I believe fully in society, and that not all of an individuals ideas and inventions belong to everyone, If it weren't for copyrights and patents there would be no more innovation, and imagination.
actually, I was thinking that there was something happening here, but now that you pinned the two points so you can hear them close together, I kind of agree with the video guy - the songs are different. There is a similarity but nothing more different than Lord of the Rings theme vs Sibelius, or GW Nightfall theme and nightwish. It is more similar feel than an exact match that makes you think it is a rip off.
So all the Satriani fans (at least from what can tell from what I've skimmed in these comments) are talking about how Coldplay sucks because they're just a popular band with that one popular tune, as opposed to Joe Satriani who has..... how many songs that are really famous? That's right! Zero. Meanwhile, Coldplay has 6 more Grammy nominations, and 7 more wins (Satch doesn't have any of those either). So really what I'm hearing is, "Coldplay is popular. They must suck." Definition of hipster.
@ibanezxiphos700
i found out its called two scoops by michelle harding
@MarcusFenixtheMan Not quite. If I were to copy someone while trying to get away with it, the key is the first thing I'd change. It's equated by purposefully getting a few random problems wrong on a math test to cover up the fact that you've cheated.
I don't know dude, maybe theory isn't everything cause those melodies "sound" very close. If could play both of those in the same song and no one would go "gee, I'm suddenly listening to a different song" They would just think the guy is playing around with the melody...a little
Whats the big black thing on your guitar? It looks interesting.
@Ajc52 So what other music did they steal?
By the way.. that Dunan cool rails in the neck of your strat sounds really good..!
Sorry to tell you, but they do sound very similar. I like both bands but Satriani's version sounds a lot like Enanitos Verdes' version. Even more so than Coldplay's and I doubt Coldplay knows any music thory at all to begin with.
People that do art for the love of art and for nothing else are called hobbiests...
Artists who live, breath, eat and drink art, and want to do nothing other than their art are the true artists... These are the people that strive to do their art as a living, rather than a hobby.
The Satriani melody is almost similiar - he only used lots of blue-notes. Satriani was at least "inspired" by the argentinians.
Ray Davies from the Kinks did the same with the Doors.. claiming 'Hello i love you' was a rip from his 'All day & all of the night' & mr Davies won that case.
Imagine writing a song & someone else out their cliams the progression & tempo is theirs..!
Pehaps the person that came up with the 12 bar blues shuffle should sue half the guitar world..! lol
There are only so many useable chord progressions that are main-stream pop music friendly.
It`s a funny old 'modern' world we live in....!
You just proved the point. From a non musical standpoint like your own, would see the similarity but however he described how it is not similar. Also you revealed your disposition to americans through your own prejudice.
How I wish you will analyze this just like what you did on the satriani vs. coldplay issue.
r u kidding?it's absolutely the same!!even though i admire SATCH and his musical talent this was way too heavy!!!!he blamed "COLDPLAY" for stealing his piece!!!!i wonder if he would do that if it hasn"t been a success!but worst of he was the 1st one who stole it!!!
I agree with infidel, i think, if I understand what he is saying , but, the similar notes, (while satriani embelishes) appear in similar times on top of different melody lines which could confuse a listener who was predisposed or told up front that there is a possibility that there may be some hanky panky. If a listener just heard the Limon and Satriani tunes at different times and was not told up front to listen for similarities they would never hear it..
Satriani, did not....cont
This Guy is a master; he's Didn't shoot anybody; If Coldplay like IF i Could fly they can admit it and they can write in their album that Their song is inspired from Satriani. Remember that Viva la Vida was an hot single for many weeks
This guy might be some sort of expert, but him saying the two songs (Satriani's and the Argentine band's one) is just fucking bullshit.
The similarities are unmissable.
Let's see. Didn't they have this same argument with Delgo and Avatar? And did anyone give a shit about it? No, because Delgo sucked, and hopefully avatar will be better. If Joe sucked, there'd be no qualm, but due to his talent and following, it is. Coincidences happen, but in the music world, that apparently doesn't apply despite the impossible possibilities. I mean, either way Joe's making money because of all the attention. Heck, I've never heard of him until the controversy.
Whoever ownes the copyright 1st is the rightful owner of the piece... copyrights are good for 50 to 100 years of the artists death, then it becomes public domain...
If an aborigine wrote the song, then they would have the burdon of proving they owned the copyright or even the idea before the tune in question was copyrighten...
"It's all about the money."
All music, movies, TV, writing, paintings, and any other copyrighten intellectual property is about the money, so what's your point?
Felipe Staiti Tienen muchas influencias de Steve Vai, que a su vez tiene toda la escuela de Joe Satriani. Es indudable que esto pueda pasar, pero lo de Coldplay fue un descaro, poque ni la escala cambiaron, simplemente es una copia fiel. mal mal por los abogados que fallaron a favor de la banda británica.
The point is that the song by Los Enanitos Verdes ( the Green Dwarves, lol) came long before the one by Satriani. In terms of inspiration maybe, it could've served some purpose. You should discuss the definition of plagiarism so we could all understand who came about with that melodic idea first.
Nice Vid though...Cheers
@thedoctor12123 Coldplay don't suck because they're popular. However, as a musician I would definitely give more respect to a self-made axe man, Satriani, rather than a bunchy of whiny Euro hipsters, who rip off melodies for breakfast; i.e Coldplay. They won a grammy for a song they stole lol. Plus, grammys and hit singles don't define talent. They radio only plays what the gen. pop wants to hear; that is, catchy tunes.
You need to analyze this the same you did with satriani vs. coldplay. You analyzed this differently.
I agree but unfortunately It is note a simple progression note
@MySupaFli This is, of course, human nature. It is largely, but not always, the case with most art forms.
i think he is out to say "hey thats my work" more for publicity than money.
i think he has a good case.
@thedoctor12123 You don't get it, do you... jeezus, you call Satriani fans hipsters but make a comment like this? /facepalm
finally someone that really knows what hes saying..
OMG PEOPLE ARE USING THE SAME CHORD PROGRESSIONS?!?!?
It's closer to Gary Moore's Still Got The Blues, but there's no real similarity
i´m argentinian. sorry, baut i don´t speak english very well. i think this songs are little similar. but is casuallity.. i love enanitos verdes, but satriani doesn´t need hear others melodyes for create one song!! sorry for my bad english! jeje
lol I dont understand your point the lick of Enanitos verdes the argentinian band is diferent to Satch's melody the guitarris of enanitos verdes is a copy of Steve Vai is really sad he plays a Jem n his solos are like Vai Satch is Satch
surely the melody on the words "rule the world" in VLV... and that's it.. is that enough for a lawsuit i wonder?
I am sorry...you are nit picking. Play 2:12 back to back with 3:12 and you can hear it's the same song with a variance at the middle and end. SOLD--- a ripoff to the nth degree.
"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
very good video though. shows how you can prove, using logical reasoning, that the grass is red.
so much for being objective....
whats the name of the band ?
98% of population is now downloading music, videos etc on rapidshare, emul, torrent..."
Just because you're downloading things for free, doesn't mean someone isn't making money somewhere.Some sites charge fees, some have advertising etc.
For you to assume that these sites are providing music, videos, etc and no one is getting paid, is complete ignorance on your part.
Do you honestly think 98% of the population condones plagiarism? That's just fucking stupid.
oh i see, how can an american well known gutarrist take inspiration from a latin american less known musician, right? i think you have a typical american vision of things. Even though the enanitos version is a simpler and more childish tune like you say, you can´t deny that the essence of it is the same! satriani added more juice to it, right, he´s a huge musician, right again. but that has nothing to do with the fact that you hear it and every1can connect both songs.And i´m not a musician.
What's your point?
@puguese y por que no habrian de plagiar tambien? los que quizas no saben que existimos son mas bien las personas comunes, lo que tienen un poco de educacion (ejemplo: artistas) si saben del resto del continente (por lo menos)
@ZxprosserxZ what guitarist isnt a satriani fan
then satriani
@FanOfGames95 They don't really sound the same
Your caps lock is stuck.
I see what your saying Luke, BUT i have one thing to say CBGB's
Then, all rock and roll bands ....
We can all agree that Justin Beiber is a successful musician. But that doesn''t make him any good.
excellent vid
Andrew. I truly appreciate you breaking it all down to the math that is the root of the controversy.
So few people misunderstand that music isn't a mystery. It is very calculatable. I've long been of the theory that great musicians and great mathematicians use the same parts of their brains to different purpose.
As to the song comparisons, you make a fantastic case. Your music theory credibility is quite apparent.
Personally, Coldplay owes Joe a thanks at minimum and royalties at max.
That melody from Limon sounds like Still got the blues for you. lol. Gotta remeber music fits in these mathematical boxes stuff is gonna sound the same sometimes.
@thedoctor12123 And also if you call a platinum album, several gold albums, and over 10 million sold worldwide "not famous", well, your opinion isnt worth much.
Ah VLV and If i could fly are really similar to me. i guess its an opinion? oO.