WHY I STOPPED CARING ABOUT MY FORM ❌
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
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Improved Motor Learning Via Being Less Restrictive/Learning From Bad Form
Reference 1: www.nature.com/articles/nn.3616
Reference 2: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Overuse Injuries From Restricting Movement
Reference 1: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30908...
Form Not Predicting Injury
Reference 1: nih.brage.unit.no/nih-xmlui/b...
Fearful of Form Increases Injury
Reference 1: paulogentil.com/pdf/Role%20of...
Variations In Form At Top Level
Reference 1: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17892...
Reference 2: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30908...
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Follow me on instagram/tiktok @mattvena instagram.com/mattvena
Email mattvena@live.ca for coaching/programs
Use my code MATTVENA for 5% off fitgun at fitgun.us/?ref=yqoqxrpzcn
Use my code matt10 for a discount on fitness equipment at hspowerfitness.com/
Improved Motor Learning Via Being Less Restrictive/Learning From Bad Form
Reference 1: www.nature.com/articles/nn.3616
Reference 2: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6091866/
Overuse Injuries From Restricting Movement
Reference 1: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30908166/
Form Not Predicting Injury
Reference 1: nih.brage.unit.no/nih-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2394569/BahrBJSM%202016.pdf?sequence=1
Fearful of Form Increases Injury
Reference 1: paulogentil.com/pdf/Role%20of%20kinesiophobia%20on%20pain%2C%20disability%20and%20quality%20of%20life%20in%20people%20suffering%20from%20chronic%20musculoskeletal%20pain%20-%20a%20systematic%20review.pdf
Variations In Form At Top Level
Reference 1: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17892098/
Reference 2: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30908368/
the era of "i see your back rounded ever so slightly on that 405 pound deadlift, de-load to 135 pounds and work your way back up" was the dark age of internet fitness and Im glad a good deal of people are finally moving past it
You still unfortunately see it fairly often
“Nope! Form is way off! De-load back to the PVC pipe!” Lol 😆 Yea, good times, good times.
as someone with long femurs, long arms, and a short torso i always struggled immensely with every "obvious que" in the big 3 lifts. Nothing ever felt right, i was always hurting my shoulder when benching, and i couldn't hit proper depth in squat. Then I experimented and found what worked best for my body, and now i have virtually no pain and can go atg on squat. One que in specific that did not work for me was the "sit your hips back" on squatting, cause this just caused excessive forward lean and i also would fall backwards sometimes. The que i use now is to push my knees out first then sink my hips down, and it feels amazing.
haha complete opposite me, i have short legs short arms longer torso
i have a similar body proportions and i actually feel like need to sit my hips back first, its so fascinating that everything varies so much from person to person in strenght training........
also one "obvious que" for squatting was to push my chest out and have my arms in line with my torso.. when i applied them, even after time to get used to these new cues, i always felt pain in my spine and i didnt have the same strenght when i applied them, because it was impossible for me to still hold the bar on my back comfortably, so i couldnt get tight in that position. I returned to having my top back kinda slouched and my elbows pointing back, now i dont have any pain and i can get very tight and comfortable
Same proportions and the "push knees out" is also my key cue on squat.
Cues are only temporary and specific to an individual’s needs. No cue for any everyone or anyone all of the time
My favourite squat que i ever heard (for atg high bar) was sit between the legs
I prefer longer videos like this where you talk about things more in depth vs 50-seconds shorts, because i can understand why you think that way a lot better.
and this isnt even long. think ivan djuric. if matt does it like ivan, we can learn a lot!!!
@@catedoge3206 well personally i get really bored and tired on very long vids like his so personally im not a fan of that(but at the same time i have adhd so its just me probably), in my opinion vids up to 10mins are the most enjoyable and can give you the most knowledge at the same time
I agree. I see alot of beginners overthinking form and using a really light weight when in reality its not that complicated and not significant after a point
Exactly, this is not weightlifting
Very true. They stagnate and stick to light weights or even worse to just the bar or spending way too much time with a PVC pipe
Bad form on squats or deadlift and you'll be in a wheel chair dude
@@Saturn-Matrix no, why would you think that?
@@sandereithun7443 You never heard of injuries on squat and deadlift due to bad form???
can’t wait for all the high schoolers to find this video and claim it’s okay for their spine to bend like a pretzel.
Jefferson curl
It is okay to deadlift with a rounded back as long as you're bracing properly
@@o-neil You go first
Mmm… 🤤 I like pretzels 🥨 delicious 😋
@@akalion213 Only if you go at the same time big boy 😉
It's refreshing to see guys like you who help oppose the nocebic, kinesiophobic narratives that are prevalent on UA-cam fitness. Thanks for doing your part to end these misconceptions.
Really enjoying these longer videos. Keep making them and we'll keep watching 👍
Love those longer formats. Hope to see more of them on your channel
love this. both the video and the long-form content generally.
I like the long form! Understanding your thought process and getting the sources allows us to really see the synthesis of experience and science providing great advice for lifters
Honestly, in this vid i paid more attention to Matt's form, and I was starstruck at how smooth, sleek, firm, efficient, strong, and textbook it was. Defo underrated. Especially for squat, he descends and powers outta the hole with no force leakages and no knee cave - it's been smtg i've always struggled with
Ya I’ve also always struggled with knee caving, to the point where I have to be very intentional of turning my toes outward for my squats
very difficult to tell from form along when a rep is heavy or light. it's quite impressive.
knee cave isnt bad there are elite powerlifters and weightlifters that do it, aslong as its not excessive its fine
Knee cave is probably due to your stance but if it’s not then it is a case of go lighter and work back up with good form. A tiny bit of cave isn’t a big deal though if you can get strong and not hurt yourself
@@sinazia2455 yea lol even lu xiaojun has pretty significant kneecave lmfao
Good strong message. Have learned long ago strict cookie cutter rules and conceptions don't work for myself, listening to body feedback and using instinct is the reason I am still doing heavy compounds for over 40 yrs.
This was me in my first few years of lifting. It held me back so much.
Rlly love these longer form ones
Awesome vid. Love the long form
I've noticed this year as I've let go of emphasis on form and just focused more on moving weight that I'm feeling better and moving better. Glad to hear there is some science to back this up!
U should tell the fed about the printing money analogy they really need to hear it lol
Yeah tell that to the people who support sending aid overseas instead of helping out Americans. They also believe money comes from thin air.
Keep these coming!
Love longer vids than short teases. ❤️
Awesome video!! Super helpful
Interesting video, enjoyed that. Always good to think about different video point and not just shut it out
Thank you for the long video!!!! great content!!!
Love your vids Matt
Thanks for the longer video
Thanks for the upload
I found the more I worked on proper form early in my lifting journey the less I need to think about it now since it is just a part of me.
Bump for the longer videos
Squat plug with the furry tail attachment (algorithm)
Even though this style of video may not do as well. I personally find this so much more informative and helpful. thanks Matt!
WDYM? All he did is put his footage on top of commentary, exported in 5 minutes...
I like those longer formats.
As I'm progressing through intermediate stages of powerlifting/strength, I'm finding this more and more true. But there are some caveats:
- I have to cue some things to maintain competition standard in my form, e.g. butt lift in bench press
- In my squat, heavier weights change the feel of the movement drastically, and I need to put some conscious effort into leaning forward with heavy weights, or otherwise I will have difficulty maintaining bracing. Heavier weights also push my depth lower. Both are very noticeable differences at e.g. weights between 75% and 90% of max.
- In deads, with heavier weights, I subconsciously begin to grip the bar more and try to pull the bar with my upper back, which hurts the slack pull. I can do this perfectly with a lightly loaded bar, but the heavier the bar gets, the more I react by trying to grip the bar harder and tighter, making the execution of the movement more difficult.
“Load management seems to be the main factor in injuries” yesss well said id add volume management but I think maybe you meant both acute per exercise load and weekly/ cycle load
yay for long video 🥰
I want to echo what other commenters have said, I love your longer videos to get your insights onto more complex topics of lifting the big 3, but also love your shorts for the fast hitting dry humour and squat plug give aways
When I stopped thinking there was a "perfect technique" and that there was a right and a wrong way to do a lift is when all my lifts exploded. I started to try and figure the "perfect" technique for MY BODY and I have done much, much better since then
True. “Perfect technique” does kinda exist but it’s for each individual. And actually this is what technique really means vs form, what is bio mechanically the best option vs what LOOKS like the best option
Need a long form video about the science behind how squat plugs increase force output
"..Letting your body move how it wants to move and simply doing what feels good..."
*This.*
I’m here for the engagement. Love this form of video
Really interested in hearing more about the form being a result of injury prevention.
Really like this long videos.
Form is definitely also something I've been paying less attention to. Especially since reading more research about pain and lifting + learing about "movement optimism". And it annoys me that people, sometimes in good faith, give out advice like "deload to bar and work on form bro".
I actually started doing this myself a few weeks ago. I would just do the lift and let my body make the adjustments. Because of this, I was finally able to get back up to where I was on my squat after so many months of going light and recovering my back. There is no one size fits all for lifting technique. It’s about what feels right for you.
Actually a little form breakdown is also good as it truly indicates where your weakness also lie.
can you talk about squat walkouts? do you think they are beneficial or not and how should you incorporate them in your training?
I stopped giving a shit because I found most others felt they were authority figures on "doing it right."
@MattVena1 go away fake.
Sick video man! There's some absolute bollocks talked in fitness but you're not one of those guys. Legit badass. Take it easy dude
I think you have some valid points but I think there is a difference between deadlifting with a slightly rounded back or having those knees cafe in on a squat at 99% of a 1rm and someone has a squat morning problem because their bar path is putting their bar 1 foot in front of the toes.
I agree, I can’t really remember all the fancy little advice I’ve gotten about “hips back” or “push the floor away” ever really helping me. But, with something grossly negligent such as terrible bar path or massive spine position changes on the deadlift have to be addressed via technique. I think you may have addressed that as fundamentals but curious to get your thoughts around that.
I’m not super technique driven myself unless it’s something major I tend to ask a coach and go back to basics. My stance width isn’t super consistent and I’ve always attributed that to my hardheadedness around warming up. But with small shit like that I tend to just not care. Hand width on the squat always changes due to shitty elbow disease which always slightly impacts my technique. These small things I can let slide without sacrificing strength or health, but with grossly wrong patterns it’s only a matter of time.
Normalise lifting for your leverages
It’s pretty normal unless you talk to KOT or SU type of people …or tik tok
This is a comment for engagement. Thanks for what you do Matt and I wanna see more long form content if possible
I love Matt
Related to the idea from this video, benching with a wide grip is hailed as always being stronger than narrow over time. Would you recommend widening grip over time to get as close to maximum grip width as possible pain-free or sticking with an almost close-grip width that you're comfortable and reasonably strong with?
You’re gonna have to experiment with that. Not everyone can lift more with a wider grip, and even then it’s only because of competition. If you’re not in powerlifting then I wouldn’t worry whether or not you can get an extra 5 or 10 kg with a maxed out form that is gonna take months to acclimate to.
Fantastic video
Matt stopped caring abt his gf
This is also true
@@mattvena226 😢😢
I agree with you
Matt why do you pull conventional with a wide grip?
It’s for the same reason you wear a back brace…. Protecting your body for instant damage or future damage
I agree with your position on "Form". Form is helpful at the beginning stage of lifting because it standardizes a foundation into the big lifts. However, as lifters become more advanced, the focus needs to be on "technique". Technique is the concept where lifters customize their leverages, strengths, ETC, into the lifters form based upon the variables listed.
People are dogmatic on lifts because of misinformation and people preaching the concepts/ words/ thoughts. I don't think this was intentional. However, I believe the drive for form was done because we lacked more sophisticated concepts to effectively communicate to others at the time, which was then perpetuated in the present.
i think form should be used as a base guideline that if you're unaware and a beginner can be very useful. I learned how to lift by youtubing proper form of different lifts
I liked deadliestlift's interpretation of form the most. Form is a visual manifestation of technique and other variables. It's useful to the extent that it's how we assess technique. But how your lift 'looks' seems kinda irrelevant if it checks off all the other boxes.
I literally film every single set to ensure proper technique. Been doing this for years. It’s foolish not to if you care about longevity and want to lift forever
Exactly
Solid video
Matt trains everyday .....so MUSCLE MEMORY....which makes form natural to achieve
As long as it’s not a flat out stupid form done with laziness (like in bench press with hands in flexion and facing your belly, which won’t end well if the bar slips lol), then you’re most likely going to be alright. Sure, there’s tweaks you can apply to your form to move in the most efficient way as possible and allow you to lift more weight, but like Matt said, the body adapts to what might be considered “bad form” however you define that. Some people don’t progress much in strength because they spent/spend way too much time trying to get it right before they add load. 2 years later and they’re still bench pressing or squatting a relatively light weight when they could have already been way stronger and adjusted their form over time as they learn more. You don’t want to stagnate and lift just 95 pounds when you could have already progressed to well over 200 pounds, 300 pounds, etc.. And definitely don’t deload back to the bar just because form is off and absolutely do not go back to the PVC pipe lol 😆 unless you want to 🤷♂️
You can’t even know what your technique is without pushing weight
@@yoeyyoey8937 This is true and something that I forgot to mention. Your lifts might look really good and move efficiently with relatively light weights, but once you push it into RPE 8-10 territory, then technique can break down easily, that’s the true test if you can keep your technique together at those loads.
@@davidbenning10 if you can keep technique together and if your technique even makes sense to begin with ofc
tonight when i deadlift im just going to pull the slack out, brace and pull and see how it goes.
Brace THEN pull the slack out. This is the way. It will feel harder in the moment but by the time you’re done with your sets they will move so good and you won’t be as fatigued.
Commenting for engagement. Recently broke my squat down to a beginner level and relearned how to do it without that "good morning" technique. I'm back up to my usual weight and I can feel it much more in my quads and I just feel overall more powerful.
That’s because you focused on form. I’m not sure what Matt’s overall point was with this one. I mean I THINK it’s to say “stop trying to be perfect and just lift” but that’s not really “good” advice.. just sort of expected at a certain point in your strength
@@permabulk1454 I think the idea is that beyond a certain point you've settled into a movement pattern and thinking too much about it and panicking mid rep or even mid program will lead to unnecessary failures or injuries. I've definitely been guilty of that. I'd say it's different from dropping all the weight and starting over on a new program with new form being the goal.
Yeah, once you have the form (really technique) down, then it’s best not to overthink it. But beginners need to be patient and experiment a tiny bit
How do you managed two ads in a short video ?
I have to disagree, form is pretty helpful and a good way to improve form is to do exercises that force you to have better form, such as slow eccentrics and pauses. Also, powerlifters should emphasize making their lifts in the gym to comp standard, or even slightly exaggerating things like pauses and depth.
Too much fluff not enough content in this video... Bro these are awesome.
I'd first heard of the form doesn't matter just let it work itself out from a book the book 80/20 running and have been experimenting with it since. On lighter sets I'll just focus on how the movement feels and if something feels off I'll try a minor cue and if that feels better I'll proceed to let rip into the heavy sets
Probably true for strength training, where your goal is simply to move weight from point A to point B. In bodybuilding though, you need to be conscious about the muscles you're using, controling the weight, etc, to reach a specific physique goal
Did you even watch the video, he literally addresses this exact point and basically says what you said?..
Bro didn’t watch past 2:30 😅
@@arghnews That's right, I decided to make myself a nice big black tea in the kitchen while this video was playing inaudibly in my room. I think it comes from the fact that I'm simply superior and can predict the knowledge transfer of video materials just from their titles.
@@mait8k565 Mmmm… I like black tea ☕️ 🧐
In karate they teach that there are three stages to mastery. 1. You copy your teacher no matter what. 2. You copy your teacher but add your own take on it. 3. You have mastered the fundamentals so compleatley that it's second nature to you, so you can stop giving a fuck about what anyone says. You are the master of the rules now.
It doesn't work to start with stage 3 though, then you will just look like an idiot.
I am engaged
Coming from the dude with the best form on UA-cam
Do you have any opinion on lower back rounding during dead-lifts? I can't logically think of a reason it would cause damage but almost every source I find thinks it's the main cause of slipped discs etc. I've never experience any skeletal pain from it personally and last time I went to the gym someone pointed it out where he said it caused him pain but I didn't ask him if it was just DOMS.
If the back flexes while under load it’s dangerous. If the back stays rigid while lifting it doesn’t matter tbh
During deadlifts or simply just picky up anything off the ground it's very natural to want to round your back. In a mechanical sense it's more efficient. Your body subconsciously is bring the main pivot point (your hips) closer to the bar shortening the moment arm allowing to lift more load with the least amount of effort.
The main issue with this is that the back rounding which in of self isn't bad. But what can be problematic is that the vertebrae themselves can slip/move out of place either pinching a nerve or the spinal cord itself. Think as your back as a chain each and everyone can break but it only takes one to be a issue. Regardless if your back is straight or not it can still happen its just a rounded back places more stress on small area instead of a larger one.
@@tylerstronk yeah that's similar to my thinking, hyopthetically a kind of reverse crunch or doing lower back rounding could strengthen the muscles around your lower spine thus preventing disc slipping and nerve pinching?
@Blorgajork Yeah, but I would argue using the deadlift when largely the goal is to lift most amount weight will increase that risk of a lower back injury based on load lifted. But using a Jefferson curl can achieve strengthening with a limited load that can be lifted compared to the deadlift.
@@tylerstronk just don’t do 1 rep maxes. Jefferson curls are cool but deadlift better for overall strength
good video
I think the title might be a little clickbait, and some of the people who commented might not actually watch the whole video~ I think your point is that beginner should not overthink the form since there isn't one size fit all type of form~ in reality, we all need to practice and gradually learn what is best for us individually, but being overthinking might prevent people from reflecting on themselves and blindly chasing so called the perfect form ~ but actually we need to learn to understand what is best for us through practicing/doing and self-reflecting not overthinking~
He was saying form was less important for experienced people
@@yoeyyoey8937 I guess the definition of "experienced people" need to be clear, some people can train for long time. Still, if they start with bad form and never reflect on that, they are technically experienced, but would it be better for them to know they are in a bad form and start to change? but if we are talking about folks who are experienced with good forms? why do they need to think about form anyway? so all these should be clarified~
@@SuperMeiMei novice makes gains every training day or several times a week. Once you only progress once a week or only a few times a month you are intermediate. Now this is with optimal conditions (good diet/calorie surplus, sleep and training protocols). Hypothetically, you can’t get to intermediate (or experienced) without at least having decent technique, since you will either hurt yourself or not be able to progress. That last one is the caveat. Are you not able to progress because you are experienced or technique is bad? Hopefully it doesn’t take an injury or months of wasted progress to realize that
comment to boost long form videos engagement
This loss hit Aaron hard, lead him to using drugs and eventually cooking them to become one of the world's largest drug suppliers.
spittin as usual. algorithm comment :)
Longer video enjoyers rejoice.
but aren't certain aspects of form extremely important? e.g. form to maintain a certain bar path?. my deadlift always drifts away if i dont cue
certain aspects yes, you should care about changing your form to not drift away when deadlifting but you should not think about every aspect when doing the lift and trying to perfect it is what this video is trying to say (imo)
As long as you’re doing the basic things like trying to maintain your bar path and other little cues, it doesn’t matter if it’s not the prettiest lift that anyone ever saw. If it looks like a deadlift with the bar dragging up your legs and driving with your legs, you’re probably fine.
That’s technique more than form and also Matt is talking more to intermediate or advanced lifters
i'd like to think im intermediate 😢
@@x2lazy2die do you really use the same cue every time you lift over months or years?
Algo
Wet with anticipation
I used to be obsessed with form, but I eventually realized the real thing is different. The people you watch do it that way for their viewers. It isn't realistic and is done to entertain. If you keep watching form, you'll lost the ability to perform. Trust me, I was a form addict.
No trap sax loop? 😢
It’s trumpet
@@yoeyyoey8937 it’s a Paul Desmond sample and the track is literally called trap sax
@@Imsoflattered0 damn you’re right 😂
Quality over quantity. I think you might get less engagement but you’ll please your channel enjoyers more. Your shorts are hilarious though
y
Do more long vids
conventional deadlift? i think you mean jefferson curl
This is an extremely controversial topic lmao. Form is EVERYTHING in powerlifting. If not form, than technique. And everyone DOES have a perfect form to aspire to, that is relevant to their anthropometry. If I don’t focus on form while deadlifting, I’ll lift less. If I don’t focus on form when squatting, I’ll blow a disc out. If I don’t focus all my intention on form when dumbbell pressing or bench pressing, my shoulders will HATE me the next day as well as my elbows and whatever else I inflamed by incorrectly loading or “not caring about form”
I get the point of the video is to say chill on trying to be perfect… but I think as you age and lift the whole time (I’m 30, been lifting since 18, serious powerlifting from 23-27) I’ve matured in so many ways and also gotten weaker in areas I neglect. If I didn’t focus on form the entire time, and only weight … I don’t think I’d even be able to lift today 😅
And when I say “serious powerlifting” I don’t mean i broke any records, just that it was my main focus lol.
Technique over form and you’re right, it ultimately that’s what helps you lift the most weight anyways
It's a werid balance to strike as an instructor, right? I teach music lessons and there's a similar issue. I can't just tell them nothing - they have obvious issues that i can tell are going to lead to pain and are inefficent, but telling them anything more complicated than "be mindful" or "feel the pick" leads to tension in other places.
It's the whole "don't think of a polar bear" effect. Don't grip the guitar too hard, don't wink your butt, all similarly problematic advice.
Sure but don’t let them get away with bad technique on guitar 😂 all it takes is forcing them to just focus on the basics, you can see if something else helps them achieve that, and then have them hammer the technique down. Otherwise it will become a bad habit that is hard to get rid off once they practice enough. I get people don’t like that, but the truth is that once you understand that you can play better, faster and longer then it’s a no brainer
Algorithm comment. I like the long format
Trying to like subscribe and comment from ten different accounts for increased engagement 😩😩
crossfitters using this video for reference
If we help you with engagement, does it mean that we are engagement to you?
algo comment
Algorithm
But Matt. Isn't it a bit ironic that you say form isn't important while your form on each of the 3 lifts is perfect
comment
1st
Another long video
Legend
W
Lessssssgooooooooo
Long, not necessarily thick
I appreciate that your long videos are still only 4 minutes long
Catch 22: your technique is probably the main reason your numbers are what they are.