@@robinrademacher7984 it is bad. Can't dodge cancel out of it, doesn't break hyper armor, the bleed ticks are not fast enough and his deflect button is different from his other attacks.
@@kachucho872 glads deflect is literally amazing all you have to do is not use it against attacks that can be followed up with hyper armour which is a fine trade off for the godly dmg
@@kachucho872 What? Glad’s deflect is only bad against hyperarmor, and that’s usually always only against raider. Honestly it’s all about matchup knowledge and you going for a deflect against someone like raider or berserker is on you. Glads deflect also is not on a different input from his other attacks, you can dodge option select from both his dodge attacks, just like shinobi. Not only that, the window to input the skewer punish after a successful deflect is so lenient you can hit an accidental deflect and still have enough time to input the skewer because it’s that good. Also I’m pretty sure it’s one of the highest damaging deflects in the game, not to mention it can ledge or wallsplat. So no, the deflect isn’t that bad by any means. Also from my experience PK has the slowest bleed tick, but it’s likely the same for all bleed in terms of bleed tick timing.
Well since he's counting superior blocks as deflects in his argument, he didn't bring up monsters like Valkyrie's deflect. - It stops attacks completely by being a superior block, so no hyperarmor. - She gets a free guardbreak for a guaranteed heavy. - She gets a pinning bleed stab, that now stacks. Valk gets whatever she wants at no risk when she goes for a deflect.
As someone who has played valk since release. Im so glad to see people finally complaining about her. It doesn't feel like an overtly powerful deflect. Didnt even know shed get a free gb after deflect.
It isn't really that big of a deal, because both superior block options give you 24dmg. Shoulder Pin for a fast, bleed-filled 24 damage that stacks and gives utility for PK and Shaman and a GB option for executions, ledges, and gank setups. The GB option doesn't work against some characters' zone attacks since the opponent can continue their chain, and since her superior blocks can't outright stop zones, she can't take advantage of their would-be block stun to get a GB. That's Valkyrie's gimmick, though. The versatility is more important. Now that her chained lights are 500ms the top light is no longer guaranteed after a Shoulder Pin. No more free sweep mixups from a shoulder Pin. Her superior block inputs are different from her dodge attack, but you can always just press both the dodge attack and Shoulder Pin input to option select, that way you don't get GBd attempting just a Shoulder Pin. You'll be able to beat feints to GB this way but you'll be vulnerable to parries.
@McBooma16 The main point is about breaking hyperarmor. He's saying that some should be haves and others have-nots based on damage or some other parameters. I'm just pointing out that Valk gets to do whatever she wants regardless of hyperarmor and will get a full heavy's worth of damage from both her options.
They need to make it so that if your character is locked in animation for the deflect, it breaks hyperarmor, like Nuxia's deflect. If you can react immediately without being locked in animation, like Orochi, than it shouldnt. But I stopped playing months ago because gameplay is getting stale after 600 reps
Speaking of nuxia's lack of dodge cancels I feel like it would be cool if she could dodge out of whiffed traps similarly to her current ability to light out of them. It just feels like it would make them more versatile in the context of her current kit as is. If her hitboxes stay as is giving her ub would be way too much I feel but I could also see at least undodgeable finishers since you can't that way you can't avoid both a trap and her heavy by using I frames. Plus as a bonus you wouldn't have both yellow and yellow orange effects for both the attack and soft feint which would likely be confusing for all the wrong reasons.
100% agree. It's also less rewarding if you can get a deflect on accident as opposed to one you have to do intentionally. Maybe they could also adjust thing so that depending on the character class it does something different: Heavy characters do low damage but crack armor, Assassins deal higher damage and the deflect chains into other combos to keep up their flow. Not that exactly perhaps, but something like that would be cool.
Finally this Topic came up, I’d choose breaking hyper armor any day, especially for shaolin. Like reward me for timing the deflect properly and give me a chance to actually use my Qi-stance.
I feel like characters roles are slightly glossed over with, like shinobi is a lot safer mainly because he can't trade properly, and is very much movement oriented to allow optimal punishes while being able to avoid incoming damage, unlike berserker, who is built for making trades while figuring out when a good time to trade is, hence why he has dodge recovery on whiff, which can allow him to punish potentially with a deflect or dodge gb, or just zone on whiff like me. basically, while it can depend on the deflect you have to very much look at what the character does as a whole. Although I will admit a lot of it also doesn't make sense as say for orochi as he has all these dodge recoveries that give him many good options in a fight, so his deflect not only being rather forgiving when you miss and they get it anyway because of a hyper armor chain, but also just stopping hyper armor, significantly reduce the risk . Could be also argued that having all these properties isn't really a bad thing as I mean even now orochi is still pretty meh, mainly because of the nerfs that released shortly after his rework. depends if you are looking at it from a casual or competitive standpoint I guess. Still don't understand why for honor is one of the few fighting games where there is such a divide between casual and competitive as fighting games are inherently built to be competitive. I'll be honest I don't know what part of what i said I agree with I just spouted likely things that people would say. So talk away people.
Deflects were fine the way they were before Ubi fucked with them. Orochi's heavy deflect was the perfect solution to a HA attack. The only shitty one was nuxia's but it could easily be made a bash to stagger opponents.
No, but deflects should have multiple options that allow you to play around Hyper Armour instead. Deflects shouldn't have high recovery, generally they should behave like Shaman and PK so you should be able to cancel them for multi deflects, this is fine vs armour. I'd like to see instead of just making deflects outright beat HA, chars like Gladiator for example should have the ability to bash instead for less damage but the ability to just punch people out of hyper armour, because otherwise all Glad has as an option is making the read and going for another deflect.
For bezerker, glad, and shaman you can press the deflect input and the dodge attack input at the same side so you always option select with the dodge attack on missed deflect attempts
Deflect, Superior Deflect or a regular attack; I feel some characters should have a “Pin” attack type to wear it interrupts the opponent & breaks amor like Orochi’s deflect. But, it’s categorized like Unblockable, Undodgeable. Some characters will have it such as Glad Skewer or Cent Lion’s Pounce, etc. So, hyper armor character’s have to truly be mindful & not carelessly throwing hyper armor attacks. Like light spammers dealing with Full Block stances.
Remember when they changed the input on peacekeeper from heavy to light for the deflect and the explanation was that ppl could get “lucky delfect” sometimes and it would feel “really really cool”
Well you should be able to dodge cancel after every deflect so that it takes skills to chain multiple deflects and punishes braindead spam and looks cool as hell.
Well, since the idea of a deflect is redirecting the blade and disrupting combat, yes it should, any weapon is swinging motion, that gets deflected shouldn't be able to swing fully with no dangers on the next swing. .
All deflect in ASSASSINS should interrupetd everything , i miss the old times when classes actually have a meaning , heavy was slow and powerfull with more health and assassins quick and agil , and hybrid somenting in between .
if you speak about those who don't break, shaman can deflect over and over again, stakcing bleed, Normally with the reecent changes to PK she can do it too, the only assasin who don't have this luxury is nuxia and it really feels. Shaolin cannot consistently crushing counter after a deflect but it's possible and anyway, he is an hybrid so his deflect is not as important to his kit than other assassins. I think all the other do break HA
you should of talked about gladiator it's a heavy input so it's something you have to do go for and not do on accident through a normal dodge input and if someone has hyper armour not only do you not break it, you don't even get the trade damage it's honestly shocking it hasn't been changed yet
Tbh I feel like glad deflect should be able to break H.A, you just got impaled by a trident and you are still moving like nothing happend? Yeah, that's not going to happen
As PK, I feel that the deflect we have should either break hyper armor, or deal more damage and deal more bleed, because I totally love deflecting and dealing 20 damage on HL's first heavy only to eat 20+ damage on the next one, it may be a trade, but I am still taking 5 or so damage each trade, so where he takes 100 damage, I will take 120, which is all my health, so I pretty much die
I’m late to the party but they had it perfect with old orochi deflect. The light attack follow up shouldn’t break hyper armor but it should allow to further chain deflects, and the heavy deflect should do more damage and break hyper armor if it hits
I never thought about deflects before playing gladiator. Its literally the coolest thing you can do in the game, but i feel like its a bit stupid when i want to dodge but do a deflect instead not expecting it so i cant follow up and it ruins my flow.
I don't consider superior block dodges to be deflects. They may be the same base idea, but block dodges are just straight up better, cause they ALWAYS stop the enemy attack chain completely, while deflect let the enemy continue their chain after. Honestly deflects should get a buff of some kind of change to actually differentiate themselves from block dodges, maybe let deflects work on unblockables, but change some aspects to make them a little weaker in other aspects.
Conqueror doesn't need to follow-up deflects with a bash, he can immediately use the uppercut or scuttage collection. I like to go for deflects because scuttage collection is fast aoe, and deflecting is faster than the bash.
As a hito main I think hyper armor should make you take more damage since you don't suffer hit stun. It'd stop characters like raider, berserker and hito from abusing hyper armor
@@puglif3708 but this way it’ll make it so they have to act more carefully hyper armour isn’t there to help you kill it’s a tool that allows you to trade pretty safely
@xxxhockey xavier bro just imagine a warlord with this trashy hyper armor lower defenses , literally all he'd be a be to do would be either full guard headbutt and light spam
Step 1-remove reflex guard Step 2-give all deflects an input that is unique from their dodge attacks step 3-introduce/more widely distribute different levels of armor, different levels of interrupt, armor applied from held unfeintable heavy inputs, and gb vulnerability on insta armored chained attacks step 4-require deflect frames to only be accessible when dodging from downstance (removes/hides guard for previously reflex heros), and have this input lack all s step 5-change superior block to cost stamina proportional to damage blocked
Tbh I would say no only because dodging can for deflects on a good chunk of characters can be sorta option selected with late dodge attack can say cause the attack to whiff anyway or even say the attack finishes and deflecter dodges again the HA user instead goes for GB and now a late dodge attack causes them to be punished. But maybe certain characters should get that property. While others should have it removed orochi.
I have no more interesting comment than "hm yes, I agree." Balance across deflects are kinda weird, currently. I think this is a good mindset to bring to the matter.
what make same input balanced for orochi for exemple, is that yes, sometimes deflects comes by accident, but at the same time someone who just press dodge attack without aiming for a deflect will get light parried if you bait it. IIRC they nerfed shinobi deflect damage recently no ?
You could also say that only superior block dodges break hyper armor as you’re smacking your opponents weapon out of the way while deflects merely reroute the strike from hitting your hero.
I feel like skilled attacks should definitely interrupt unskilled attack like a raider going Unga bunga or like a highlander pressing light 3 times in a row
Give orochi a 700ms(or maybe 650 or 600ms) heavy deflect that breaks hyperarmor with HA for 24+4dmg(options for dodgecancelling out of it, softfeinting to gb and hardfeint to parry)and keep his light deflect for 18+4 BUT without breaking HA that makes his lightdeflect a better option for chaining, styling and antiganks but the heavy is better for more pressure and to bait executions. Or something like that... i really want the heavydeflect back...
In my opinion all deflects should have dodge cancels instead of going through hyper armour (berserker being an exception) mainly talking about orochis. Also conquer, kensei and valk don’t have deflects they have guard on block main difference being the guard is up the whole time (valk is an exception) and that the dodge it’s self interrupts the attack not the follow up. I do agree on that if the deflect is easier to input is should be a bit weaker in some way.
Every deflect should break hyperarmor, deflects are harder than parries but if I do it with shaolin vs spamming highlander I get 30 dmg on my head instead of getting rewarded. Whats the point of it if pulling it off if its harder and rewards you by making you lose 1/4 of hp? Also about shaolin, hes "hybrid" (gods only knows what classes even mean in this game) but he has the disappearing guard feature like an assassin so it wouldnt make sense to make his deflect bad
I would say: it depends. If they keep giving a lot of hyper-armour to heroes each season, then yes, deflects should break it. And if the devs will know their limits and stop this bullshit then no - let the hyper-armour play a role and make both opponents think more what tools they should use.
I've been feeling the pain of trying to enjoy peacekeeper and gladiator but almost every time I can get deflects off it's always gotta be completely negated by H.A. Whether it's a gryphon spamming dodge heavy, heavy. A berserker side dodging into a heavy, kenseis chains, whatever. It's so upsetting landing like 2 deflects in a fight and still getting obliterated cuz of hyper armor saying fuck your bleed. I really think pk's should hit stun through H.A, or at least have deflects in general interrupt the chain your opponent started. It almost feels not worth it to play assassins.
in my opinion just the fact that deflects are harder to pull off than parries should make them stronger but useually there is no reason to go for a deflect instead of a parry.
If shinobi deflect didn’t break hyper armour it would completely fuck up the lock on system for your opponent and depending on the hero now his followup kick could potentially be guarenteed due to being mid animation
Interesting comment, I dont think it would fuck up the lock system as its the same as target switching to someone behind you if thats what you mean. As for the kick being guaranteed it would depend on the timing, but the enemy can always feint to neutral and dodge gb, if the timings need to be slightly tweaked so be it. Also remember i want the deflect to deal 20 damage.
I'm surprised you didn't show Zhanhu. He has arguably one of the best deflects in the game without any downsides of being an assassin. -It's 22-24 damage -Breaks hyperamor -Leads to UB chain(s) -He doesn't have a reflex guard -He has dodge recoverys -It can be activated by an external enemy to hit another -And it has great peel so it so it doesn't end up getting you hit like most other deflects when used in a team fight.
@@knightmare1267 watch the video. He's counting them all as deflects to compare. in reality they act as deflects in everything but name, so I will call them deflects.
Nah bro, Shinobi's deflect is fine as it is, it may even have too much damage. Because every shinobi worth their salt knows the mix up of either, follow up the kick or do the undodgeable heavy. Paired with the fact the deflect already does damage and ALSO flows into a mixup that can be extremely deadly in team-fights. Id say Shinobi's is pretty fuckin good and doesn't need any more damage that it already has.
Unblockables should break hyper armor, if you can't block with a shield then why can you with your body. I think hyper armor lowers the skill bar since you get rewarded for mistakes
Well considering most hyper armor characters have insane health over assassins, and assassins can’t afford trading. In my opinion, Deflects should break hyper armor
Here's my opinions: Peacekeepers should stay as is, but I preferred it on a light input. Conq's is fine Gladiator's is simultaneously the best and worst deflect in the game. I think that was played for. Zerk's is fine. It breaks hyperarmour, does moderate damage, but is a separate input. Valk's is fine now that it no longer guarantees the followup top light. Shaman's is fine. Orochi's shouldn't break hyperarmour imo, cause he can already dodge out of it with a little applied thinking. Shinobi's is too much. Breaks hyperarmour, does 24 dmg, same input as his dodge attack that also breaks hyperarmour, and leads straight into a 50/50. Nuxia's didn't deserve the dmg nerf. Shaolin's is fine I think. Maybe faster link into Qi so he can pull off skilled plays against hyperarmour.
Yes and no... Examples of no are heroes like Shan, who have the recovery to deflect hyper armour heavies. However heroes like Glad and orochi should be able to. See
If anybody needs some kind of hyper armor break, It’s peacekeeper. Make her soft feint break hyperarmor, or at least the deflect. Her deflect is probably the worst in the game by FAR. She is definitely the weakest hero in for honor right now without a doubt. I’d love to hear other peoples thoughts on peacekeepers state in the game right now. I’m currently Rep 5 pk rep 71 overall. Glad is rep 20, conq is 8, warlord is 9. Those are in order my best heroes pk is somewhere between conq and warlord prob.
man this is such an obvious flaw of the game, yet it took so long for someone to make a coherent video about it. I complained about this shit years ago...talk about devs who dont play their own game...its so fucking obvious yet, it took so long to adress because the playerbase has certain bias towards their favorite characters...
Who should break HA with their deflect? Pk: No Glad: Pls yes Berserker: Yes Shaman: No Orochi: No Shinobi: No Shaolin: No Nuxia: YES Is as easy as that lol
No, they're supposed to be high risks, high reward. If people learned WHEN to deflect at the right time instead of doing it without using their brain and eating a move, then this discussion wouldn't exist. If you decide to deflect all you see, it's entirely your fault if you ate the HA attack because you refused to learn.
@@el_slender …bruh, glad has the biggest problem with his deflect and hyper armour, it deals what? 2 damage before you get smacked with a hyper armoured heavy. He should of been the first one you talk about, it wasn’t that ‘you don’t have to talk about some’, you are either incompetent or lazy or just both, fucking hell man
@@el_slender but not in glad`s case. Rly most of insecure moves in game, with no trade in HA, or deal dmg in bubble and oos. Even rely on his animation he must be guaranteed, idk why you ignore him
Glad's deflect is so bad even my dude slanderous forgor about it.
Nah not bad but the damage does come with tim so when he gets hyperarmored he does nearly zero damage, but damage if you hit it is so high
@@robinrademacher7984 it is bad. Can't dodge cancel out of it, doesn't break hyper armor, the bleed ticks are not fast enough and his deflect button is different from his other attacks.
@@kachucho872 but if it lands its either over 40 damage or 37
@@kachucho872 glads deflect is literally amazing all you have to do is not use it against attacks that can be followed up with hyper armour which is a fine trade off for the godly dmg
@@kachucho872 What? Glad’s deflect is only bad against hyperarmor, and that’s usually always only against raider. Honestly it’s all about matchup knowledge and you going for a deflect against someone like raider or berserker is on you. Glads deflect also is not on a different input from his other attacks, you can dodge option select from both his dodge attacks, just like shinobi. Not only that, the window to input the skewer punish after a successful deflect is so lenient you can hit an accidental deflect and still have enough time to input the skewer because it’s that good. Also I’m pretty sure it’s one of the highest damaging deflects in the game, not to mention it can ledge or wallsplat. So no, the deflect isn’t that bad by any means. Also from my experience PK has the slowest bleed tick, but it’s likely the same for all bleed in terms of bleed tick timing.
Well since he's counting superior blocks as deflects in his argument, he didn't bring up monsters like Valkyrie's deflect.
- It stops attacks completely by being a superior block, so no hyperarmor.
- She gets a free guardbreak for a guaranteed heavy.
- She gets a pinning bleed stab, that now stacks.
Valk gets whatever she wants at no risk when she goes for a deflect.
At least it's a different input...
@William Gignac I can't tell if that's a joke or not lol.
As someone who has played valk since release. Im so glad to see people finally complaining about her. It doesn't feel like an overtly powerful deflect. Didnt even know shed get a free gb after deflect.
It isn't really that big of a deal, because both superior block options give you 24dmg. Shoulder Pin for a fast, bleed-filled 24 damage that stacks and gives utility for PK and Shaman and a GB option for executions, ledges, and gank setups. The GB option doesn't work against some characters' zone attacks since the opponent can continue their chain, and since her superior blocks can't outright stop zones, she can't take advantage of their would-be block stun to get a GB.
That's Valkyrie's gimmick, though. The versatility is more important. Now that her chained lights are 500ms the top light is no longer guaranteed after a Shoulder Pin. No more free sweep mixups from a shoulder Pin.
Her superior block inputs are different from her dodge attack, but you can always just press both the dodge attack and Shoulder Pin input to option select, that way you don't get GBd attempting just a Shoulder Pin. You'll be able to beat feints to GB this way but you'll be vulnerable to parries.
@McBooma16 The main point is about breaking hyperarmor. He's saying that some should be haves and others have-nots based on damage or some other parameters. I'm just pointing out that Valk gets to do whatever she wants regardless of hyperarmor and will get a full heavy's worth of damage from both her options.
They need to make it so that if your character is locked in animation for the deflect, it breaks hyperarmor, like Nuxia's deflect. If you can react immediately without being locked in animation, like Orochi, than it shouldnt. But I stopped playing months ago because gameplay is getting stale after 600 reps
Yes. Or atleast have some way of not getting slapped by a following attack.
Dodge cancel out of it like Shaman and PK or block recovery. Something.
Most of the time i play raider and my attack gets deflected and they still have time to block or parry the follow up
Speaking of nuxia's lack of dodge cancels I feel like it would be cool if she could dodge out of whiffed traps similarly to her current ability to light out of them. It just feels like it would make them more versatile in the context of her current kit as is. If her hitboxes stay as is giving her ub would be way too much I feel but I could also see at least undodgeable finishers since you can't that way you can't avoid both a trap and her heavy by using I frames. Plus as a bonus you wouldn't have both yellow and yellow orange effects for both the attack and soft feint which would likely be confusing for all the wrong reasons.
100% agree. It's also less rewarding if you can get a deflect on accident as opposed to one you have to do intentionally. Maybe they could also adjust thing so that depending on the character class it does something different: Heavy characters do low damage but crack armor, Assassins deal higher damage and the deflect chains into other combos to keep up their flow.
Not that exactly perhaps, but something like that would be cool.
Should parries be able to break hyper armor?!? Anyways thank you for having nuance with this and not just a blanket yes no. Cheers for the vid.
Finally this Topic came up, I’d choose breaking hyper armor any day, especially for shaolin. Like reward me for timing the deflect properly and give me a chance to actually use my Qi-stance.
I feel like characters roles are slightly glossed over with, like shinobi is a lot safer mainly because he can't trade properly, and is very much movement oriented to allow optimal punishes while being able to avoid incoming damage, unlike berserker, who is built for making trades while figuring out when a good time to trade is, hence why he has dodge recovery on whiff, which can allow him to punish potentially with a deflect or dodge gb, or just zone on whiff like me. basically, while it can depend on the deflect you have to very much look at what the character does as a whole. Although I will admit a lot of it also doesn't make sense as say for orochi as he has all these dodge recoveries that give him many good options in a fight, so his deflect not only being rather forgiving when you miss and they get it anyway because of a hyper armor chain, but also just stopping hyper armor, significantly reduce the risk . Could be also argued that having all these properties isn't really a bad thing as I mean even now orochi is still pretty meh, mainly because of the nerfs that released shortly after his rework. depends if you are looking at it from a casual or competitive standpoint I guess. Still don't understand why for honor is one of the few fighting games where there is such a divide between casual and competitive as fighting games are inherently built to be competitive.
I'll be honest I don't know what part of what i said I agree with I just spouted likely things that people would say. So talk away people.
I guess in conclusion the answer still isnt really clear and as of now will just stay as opinion
Deflects were fine the way they were before Ubi fucked with them. Orochi's heavy deflect was the perfect solution to a HA attack. The only shitty one was nuxia's but it could easily be made a bash to stagger opponents.
Yes, thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
No, but deflects should have multiple options that allow you to play around Hyper Armour instead.
Deflects shouldn't have high recovery, generally they should behave like Shaman and PK so you should be able to cancel them for multi deflects, this is fine vs armour.
I'd like to see instead of just making deflects outright beat HA, chars like Gladiator for example should have the ability to bash instead for less damage but the ability to just punch people out of hyper armour, because otherwise all Glad has as an option is making the read and going for another deflect.
For bezerker, glad, and shaman you can press the deflect input and the dodge attack input at the same side so you always option select with the dodge attack on missed deflect attempts
Deflect, Superior Deflect or a regular attack; I feel some characters should have a “Pin” attack type to wear it interrupts the opponent & breaks amor like Orochi’s deflect. But, it’s categorized like Unblockable, Undodgeable. Some characters will have it such as Glad Skewer or Cent Lion’s Pounce, etc. So, hyper armor character’s have to truly be mindful & not carelessly throwing hyper armor attacks. Like light spammers dealing with Full Block stances.
Just shows the amazing team balance they have in FH
Remember when they changed the input on peacekeeper from heavy to light for the deflect and the explanation was that ppl could get “lucky delfect” sometimes and it would feel “really really cool”
YES! They should.. like imagine getting punished/trading after a parry or a crushing counter
Well you should be able to dodge cancel after every deflect so that it takes skills to chain multiple deflects and punishes braindead spam and looks cool as hell.
Well, since the idea of a deflect is redirecting the blade and disrupting combat, yes it should, any weapon is swinging motion, that gets deflected shouldn't be able to swing fully with no dangers on the next swing. .
All deflect in ASSASSINS should interrupetd everything , i miss the old times when classes actually have a meaning , heavy was slow and powerfull with more health and assassins quick and agil , and hybrid somenting in between .
In terms of shaolins deflect I think they need to speed it up a bit so you don't have to early dodge attack to have the attempt at the cc
Considering how they are a similar moves to parties that do interrupt, yes they should
Yes, they should and I refuse to elaborate further.
Well I love the da2 theme at the end
The fact that this is addressed in year 6, where I've been a Nuxia main since her release...
I think all unblockable deflects should break hyper armor, it’s a counter. And you shouldn’t still be punished for good timing.
if you speak about those who don't break, shaman can deflect over and over again, stakcing bleed, Normally with the reecent changes to PK she can do it too, the only assasin who don't have this luxury is nuxia and it really feels. Shaolin cannot consistently crushing counter after a deflect but it's possible and anyway, he is an hybrid so his deflect is not as important to his kit than other assassins. I think all the other do break HA
you should of talked about gladiator
it's a heavy input so it's something you have to do go for and not do on accident through a normal dodge input
and if someone has hyper armour not only do you not break it, you don't even get the trade damage
it's honestly shocking it hasn't been changed yet
It’s quite a sad thing to have happen to glad
Tbh I feel like glad deflect should be able to break H.A, you just got impaled by a trident and you are still moving like nothing happend? Yeah, that's not going to happen
As PK, I feel that the deflect we have should either break hyper armor, or deal more damage and deal more bleed, because I totally love deflecting and dealing 20 damage on HL's first heavy only to eat 20+ damage on the next one, it may be a trade, but I am still taking 5 or so damage each trade, so where he takes 100 damage, I will take 120, which is all my health, so I pretty much die
I’m late to the party but they had it perfect with old orochi deflect. The light attack follow up shouldn’t break hyper armor but it should allow to further chain deflects, and the heavy deflect should do more damage and break hyper armor if it hits
I never thought about deflects before playing gladiator. Its literally the coolest thing you can do in the game, but i feel like its a bit stupid when i want to dodge but do a deflect instead not expecting it so i cant follow up and it ruins my flow.
Majula theme hits different
I don't consider superior block dodges to be deflects. They may be the same base idea, but block dodges are just straight up better, cause they ALWAYS stop the enemy attack chain completely, while deflect let the enemy continue their chain after.
Honestly deflects should get a buff of some kind of change to actually differentiate themselves from block dodges, maybe let deflects work on unblockables, but change some aspects to make them a little weaker in other aspects.
Yes they do need it to interrupt its like an advanced parry
Conqueror doesn't need to follow-up deflects with a bash, he can immediately use the uppercut or scuttage collection. I like to go for deflects because scuttage collection is fast aoe, and deflecting is faster than the bash.
As a hito main I think hyper armor should make you take more damage since you don't suffer hit stun. It'd stop characters like raider, berserker and hito from abusing hyper armor
those characters without this hyper armor are 100% useless tho
@@puglif3708 but this way it’ll make it so they have to act more carefully hyper armour isn’t there to help you kill it’s a tool that allows you to trade pretty safely
@xxxhockey xavier bro just imagine a warlord with this trashy hyper armor lower defenses , literally all he'd be a be to do would be either full guard headbutt and light spam
Step 1-remove reflex guard
Step 2-give all deflects an input that is unique from their dodge attacks
step 3-introduce/more widely distribute different levels of armor, different levels of interrupt, armor applied from held unfeintable heavy inputs, and gb vulnerability on insta armored chained attacks
step 4-require deflect frames to only be accessible when dodging from downstance (removes/hides guard for previously reflex heros), and have this input lack all s
step 5-change superior block to cost stamina proportional to damage blocked
Tbh I would say no only because dodging can for deflects on a good chunk of characters can be sorta option selected with late dodge attack can say cause the attack to whiff anyway or even say the attack finishes and deflecter dodges again the HA user instead goes for GB and now a late dodge attack causes them to be punished.
But maybe certain characters should get that property. While others should have it removed orochi.
I rarely play assassind, but i feel they should, seeing as they are hard to perform, so you should be rewarded for it.
I have no more interesting comment than "hm yes, I agree."
Balance across deflects are kinda weird, currently. I think this is a good mindset to bring to the matter.
what make same input balanced for orochi for exemple, is that yes, sometimes deflects comes by accident, but at the same time someone who just press dodge attack without aiming for a deflect will get light parried if you bait it. IIRC they nerfed shinobi deflect damage recently no ?
You could also say that only superior block dodges break hyper armor as you’re smacking your opponents weapon out of the way while deflects merely reroute the strike from hitting your hero.
Bro you’re killing me with that outro 💔
Yes glad needs it for his deflect
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes, they fucking should.
Only reflex guard heroes have deflects! Superior Block is not the same thing.
I hope they bring back orochis heavy deflect some day
Yes it should and i use hyoer armor for allot of my characters so theres no bias
I feel like skilled attacks should definitely interrupt unskilled attack like a raider going Unga bunga or like a highlander pressing light 3 times in a row
Honestly, why not.
Just throw a Testing Grounds and see what happens. (Obviously more to it than that but i don't think it would be too bad 🤷)
People really need to seperate superior block(s)(follow-ups) from deflects.
glads should either break hyper armor or give the full deflect damage without the skewering animation
They should if you can’t punish the hyper armor attack
Shows an enhanced dodge at the start
Give orochi a 700ms(or maybe 650 or 600ms) heavy deflect that breaks hyperarmor with HA for 24+4dmg(options for dodgecancelling out of it, softfeinting to gb and hardfeint to parry)and keep his light deflect for 18+4 BUT without breaking HA that makes his lightdeflect a better option for chaining, styling and antiganks but the heavy is better for more pressure and to bait executions.
Or something like that... i really want the heavydeflect back...
technically the dodge block input is not the deflect, but only technically
In my opinion all deflects should have dodge cancels instead of going through hyper armour (berserker being an exception) mainly talking about orochis. Also conquer, kensei and valk don’t have deflects they have guard on block main difference being the guard is up the whole time (valk is an exception) and that the dodge it’s self interrupts the attack not the follow up. I do agree on that if the deflect is easier to input is should be a bit weaker in some way.
To answer your question: yes
Deflects and superior guard on Dodge are two different things. It's harder to deflect.
Dont forget you can obliterate heavy undodgables with shinobis deflect on double dodge
When I play highlander: NO LEAVE IT HYPER ARMOR ALONE
When I play shaolin: PLEASE MOTHER OF GOD CHANGE IT
Every deflect should break hyperarmor, deflects are harder than parries but if I do it with shaolin vs spamming highlander I get 30 dmg on my head instead of getting rewarded. Whats the point of it if pulling it off if its harder and rewards you by making you lose 1/4 of hp? Also about shaolin, hes "hybrid" (gods only knows what classes even mean in this game) but he has the disappearing guard feature like an assassin so it wouldnt make sense to make his deflect bad
I would say: it depends. If they keep giving a lot of hyper-armour to heroes each season, then yes, deflects should break it. And if the devs will know their limits and stop this bullshit then no - let the hyper-armour play a role and make both opponents think more what tools they should use.
Am I the only person who goes for the gb deflect on valk rather than her heavy deflect. The gb is still guaranteed on all deflects
this video is very good
I agree with this statement
I understand swinging through an attack but a deflect should realistically work on hyper armor. Because that is weapon to weapon contact.
Best deflect is shinobi's, no one can change my mind
I've been feeling the pain of trying to enjoy peacekeeper and gladiator but almost every time I can get deflects off it's always gotta be completely negated by H.A. Whether it's a gryphon spamming dodge heavy, heavy. A berserker side dodging into a heavy, kenseis chains, whatever. It's so upsetting landing like 2 deflects in a fight and still getting obliterated cuz of hyper armor saying fuck your bleed. I really think pk's should hit stun through H.A, or at least have deflects in general interrupt the chain your opponent started. It almost feels not worth it to play assassins.
They should've kept nuxias deflect as it was. Let her be the glass cannon. I don't really have the incentive to deflect with her anymore
in my opinion just the fact that deflects are harder to pull off than parries should make them stronger but useually there is no reason to go for a deflect instead of a parry.
all my homies shinobi
Berserker should get a new deflect and all heros should get a gb as an option
Well Conq Kensei and Valk have Superior Blocks, thats not quite the same as a deflect..
deflect should have stayed assassin & (some, not all) hybrid exclusive, as for dodge attack
If shinobi deflect didn’t break hyper armour it would completely fuck up the lock on system for your opponent and depending on the hero now his followup kick could potentially be guarenteed due to being mid animation
Interesting comment, I dont think it would fuck up the lock system as its the same as target switching to someone behind you if thats what you mean.
As for the kick being guaranteed it would depend on the timing, but the enemy can always feint to neutral and dodge gb, if the timings need to be slightly tweaked so be it. Also remember i want the deflect to deal 20 damage.
I'm surprised you didn't show Zhanhu.
He has arguably one of the best deflects in the game without any downsides of being an assassin.
-It's 22-24 damage
-Breaks hyperamor
-Leads to UB chain(s)
-He doesn't have a reflex guard
-He has dodge recoverys
-It can be activated by an external enemy to hit another
-And it has great peel so it so it doesn't end up getting you hit like most other deflects when used in a team fight.
Zhanhu doesn't have a deflect, thats why it wasn't included. His is a superior dodge similar to Valkyries.
@@knightmare1267 potato fucking potatto
@@knightmare1267 watch the video. He's counting them all as deflects to compare.
in reality they act as deflects in everything but name, so I will call them deflects.
Nah bro, Shinobi's deflect is fine as it is, it may even have too much damage. Because every shinobi worth their salt knows the mix up of either, follow up the kick or do the undodgeable heavy. Paired with the fact the deflect already does damage and ALSO flows into a mixup that can be extremely deadly in team-fights. Id say Shinobi's is pretty fuckin good and doesn't need any more damage that it already has.
Yes
Unblockables should break hyper armor, if you can't block with a shield then why can you with your body. I think hyper armor lowers the skill bar since you get rewarded for mistakes
Every deflect should stop hyper armour, it's a more risky attack and it should act like a parry in that regard.
Well considering most hyper armor characters have insane health over assassins, and assassins can’t afford trading. In my opinion, Deflects should break hyper armor
Here's my opinions:
Peacekeepers should stay as is, but I preferred it on a light input.
Conq's is fine
Gladiator's is simultaneously the best and worst deflect in the game. I think that was played for.
Zerk's is fine. It breaks hyperarmour, does moderate damage, but is a separate input.
Valk's is fine now that it no longer guarantees the followup top light.
Shaman's is fine.
Orochi's shouldn't break hyperarmour imo, cause he can already dodge out of it with a little applied thinking.
Shinobi's is too much. Breaks hyperarmour, does 24 dmg, same input as his dodge attack that also breaks hyperarmour, and leads straight into a 50/50.
Nuxia's didn't deserve the dmg nerf.
Shaolin's is fine I think. Maybe faster link into Qi so he can pull off skilled plays against hyperarmour.
I thought Slanderous would have a good opinion for once up until the Nuxia comment.
Conclusion: Shinobi good Nuxia bad
Put it all in reddit. That's where the devs go :)
shamannn?
Yes and no... Examples of no are heroes like Shan, who have the recovery to deflect hyper armour heavies. However heroes like Glad and orochi should be able to. See
What about gladiator
Should hyper armor be on any
No way, I'm not that good so hyper armor helps me win.
Yes absolutely deflects should definitely break
If anybody needs some kind of hyper armor break, It’s peacekeeper. Make her soft feint break hyperarmor, or at least the deflect. Her deflect is probably the worst in the game by FAR. She is definitely the weakest hero in for honor right now without a doubt. I’d love to hear other peoples thoughts on peacekeepers state in the game right now. I’m currently Rep 5 pk rep 71 overall. Glad is rep 20, conq is 8, warlord is 9. Those are in order my best heroes pk is somewhere between conq and warlord prob.
I mean, some deflects do break hyperarmor already, so why shouldn't they all?
Because they may have other properties that already make up for it
Deflects and SB arent the same tho....
man this is such an obvious flaw of the game, yet it took so long for someone to make a coherent video about it.
I complained about this shit years ago...talk about devs who dont play their own game...its so fucking obvious yet, it took so long to adress because the playerbase has certain bias towards their favorite characters...
Hyper armor should exist only in heavy finishes and special attacks. This would solve half of the problems.
absolute wack take
Who should break HA with their deflect?
Pk: No
Glad: Pls yes
Berserker: Yes
Shaman: No
Orochi: No
Shinobi: No
Shaolin: No
Nuxia: YES
Is as easy as that lol
Just give deflects hyper armor. Then the worst case is a trade
then give 40 dmg for all deflects, to trade with mindless heby under HA
No, they're supposed to be high risks, high reward. If people learned WHEN to deflect at the right time instead of doing it without using their brain and eating a move, then this discussion wouldn't exist. If you decide to deflect all you see, it's entirely your fault if you ate the HA attack because you refused to learn.
Valk got the best deflects ligma balls
Bruh why completely leave out the most unique deflect in the game? (Gladiator)
I dont have to talk about every deflect to make a point
@@el_slender …bruh, glad has the biggest problem with his deflect and hyper armour, it deals what? 2 damage before you get smacked with a hyper armoured heavy. He should of been the first one you talk about, it wasn’t that ‘you don’t have to talk about some’, you are either incompetent or lazy or just both, fucking hell man
@@el_slender but not in glad`s case. Rly most of insecure moves in game, with no trade in HA, or deal dmg in bubble and oos. Even rely on his animation he must be guaranteed, idk why you ignore him