Why I chose the Zenith STOL CH 750
Вставка
- Опубліковано 21 бер 2017
- Welcome back fellow aircraft builders and aviation enthusiasts! I filmed this video in response to being asked the same question over and over again in the past few years: "Why are you building the STOL CH 750?" Invariably, that question is often followed up with: "Why aren't you building the 750 Cruzer instead?" I then occasionally have people tell me I should be building the Cruzer instead, because I'll never use the STOL capabilities of the STOL CH 750.
I am happy to answer why I chose the Zenith STOL CH 750, but I'm somewhat shocked by people telling me I should be building a different airplane! How do they know what I should be building? At any rate, this video details how I arrived at the STOL CH 750 as my chosen project, and why I would still choose it instead of the Cruzer if I was just now deciding on what plane to build. I also go into some of the performance characteristics of each of the Zenith 2-seat designs. Join me in this video for a conversation on my reasoning behind choosing the STOL CH 750 for my project!
Thanks for watching, and check out my blog at gregsplane.blogspot.com to follow my progress!
For more information about my airplane, check out www.zenithair.com
I really like your videos! I myself built a 701 from scratch. which took a long time but it was the only way I could afford to do it. You get more appreciation from you and other builders. It is very rewarding!
Robert McNaught Thank you!
Glad I stumbled on your channel, enjoyed the video. It has always amused me that so many pilots/builders want to know why I didn't build xxx (where xxx is usually an RV-variant) rather than the STOL 750 that I am. I started quite a ways before the Cruzer came along so that was never an option for me, but I think I would have stayed with the STOL for the same reasons as you.
Paul Sanders Thanks! I get the RV question too!
I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on your motivation. Thank you.
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
BTW, if you build your own aircraft, you hold the "A&P" to that aircraft. Including any motor to every bit and piece of construction down to the last rivet. Remember you built it. You can also perform your own annuals. Thinking of the Zenith myself. I appreciate the fact that the holes are already final size. No drilling, no deburring, no dimpling, no bucking bars. Looking at the Sling 2 as well.
We're enjoying your videos! Thanks for sharing
Thank you!
One of your best videos!
Good perspective!
Learned a lot about the different model Zeniths
Good job Greg, very good presentation of this subject. I've also decided on the CH 750 STOL for a lot of the same reasons. At the same time I can appreciate that having a plane that can cover distance more quickly is a desirable thing, and ultimately I guess we just need to build 2 planes! :D Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thank you! For the time being, my 172 covers distances a little better than the 750 will. But, once the 750 is done, I'm looking at building the Zenith CH 640 as my distance plane.
Great video, not sure why anyone would question what you wanted to build... But then again my first plane is an Ercoupe, and I did get some of the same questions.
Joey Shreve Thank You! It seems everyone gets some variation of that question from time to time. Everyone sees the world through their own lenses, I suppose.
Excellent video Greg. Looking forward to hearing about the Corvair as I have been researching those. Question - if you had to do it over, would you just buy a decent metal brake? I ask because I've noticed that many of your challenges seem center on how to bend metal with the various iterations of your home made brake.
dicel87 Thank you for the feedback! I would still build my own brake, but the main issue was that I didn't know exactly how it needed to be designed from the beginning. I am considering putting together a drawing and video of a brake I've designed for this project. But for now Mac's Machine seems to be the best design for this build: www.macsmachine.com. Scaling it up to bend the tail spars isn't a good idea, though. The main problem with a purchased brake is that it probably won't do everything you need it to do, unless it is very, very expensive (i.e. cost prohibitive). If you buy a ready-made brake, you will need a bending brake, a really wide press brake and a hydraulic press.
Amen bro!
Give me a sand bar on a good salmon or trout river any day.
People ask me why I got an ultralight canoe that I can carry to remote places rather than a store bought kayak that weighs 60 lbs ... my choice for hard to get to areas.
right on brother!!!!!
I prefer the CH 750 for all of the same reason. Great choice, in my opinion.
Interesting thoughts and capabilities. Building from scratch grabbed my attention. I am going through similar thought process and would like to get some tips from you regarding this type of build.
You can email me directly if you like. My email address is gregsstolch750 at gmail. Otherwise, I can try to answer questions here.
@@GregsZenithSTOLCH750 Thanks Greg. Sent you an email with my inquiry.
Nice video... engine selection video would be great. Like your choice of plane as well.
Great topic Greg....I'm hoping for a CH701....will only wear skis and floats.....thanks for mentioning my country....my hometown is where Zenair lives...!
The 701 is a great airplane, too!
Extremely useful! So good to have useful level field comparisons here. Is there anyone who has done STOL 750 slats vs no slats with VG's comparisons?
I don't know of any documented comparisons between the two. Some people have said that there's no appreciable difference in performance, but VGs reduce weight slightly and also reduce build time. That's strictly anecdotal, though. Rumor and "friend of a friend" reports.
Nice video! I have watched 50+ STOL videos (esp Valdez STOL competitions) and I also zeroed in on the CH-750 for its room and load capacity. I appreciate the recap of your thoughs and the spec comparisons. Very helpful.
Your comments about the vortex generators on the flaps interest me. Do you have any links to people who have added VGs to their CH-750s or 701s?
Also, Zenith has a video showing leading edge slats positioned ~1-1/2" lower than the original 750 position but I cannot find figures for its impact on stall speed, etc. Are you leaning toward lowered slats for increased short field performance?
I have bookmarked your blog and look forward to watching your progress.
Very inspirational :)
Thank you for watching and the nice comments! Regarding the VGs vs. Slats on the leading edge wings, I'm sticking with slats. I've only seen the modification on 701s, and there are a few videos here on UA-cam showing those. I know a few people who are planning to take the slats off their 750's, but there's nothing online to see yet (if ever, in their case). If you do a quick YT search for 701 or 750 "removed" or "no slats," you'll be able to see a few videos. I know one person who is putting a cruiser nose rib profile on his 701 right now too, but it's a long way off from flying.
I don't yet know if I'm going to droop my leading edge slats or not. You sacrifice a little in cruise speed, but gain more STOL capability. I have not found any real world performance figures either. It's an easy modification, though, so I'll probably build mine with standard slats, and then experiment with drooped slats in the future. It only takes a few mounting adapter plates to do it.
If you're considering building a Zenith, take a look at the new STOL CH750 Super Duty...a very nice looking STOL aircraft that carries quite a bit more load than mine, without stepping up to the "full" 801. If that had been available back when I started so many years ago, I'd probably be building that instead.
I don't update my blog as often as I should (I need to correct that)...I spend more time working on YT stuff, so be sure to activate the notifications bell here if you have a YT account!
It's easy!
Are you planning on airport or off airport?
I get the same questions on my choice of aircraft. but for me it is the STOL CH 701, I've 350 FT east -west and during the winter that can be 900 FT, 400 FT north-south year round. the only obstruction is the occasional crop of corn.
That's crazy short!
Great video. I like your perspective on choice. Perhaps some of the people asking those questions are not challenging others as much as questioning themselves. Anyway good thoughts and agree with your thought process. I have been considering a Vans and the Zenith appeals to me with easier to build.
A fellow Zenith builder in my area was working on a Vans RV, but decided to stop and switch to a Cruzer kit. Vans has also been providing match-drilled kits in recent years, too, but the Zeniths are much simpler from what I understand. There's no comparison in the final products, of course...vastly different planes with vastly different missions. But depending on what you want in the end, the Zenith may be the way to go.
Greg's Zenith STOL CH750 thanks those are good points. I got a shirt at Oshkosh that says “fly it like you STOL it”. Haha. Fun play on words on the STOL acronym.
@@brentjohnson6654 I have a similar shirt from OSH2016.
Thanks for the info. I did not know that the slats could be drooped more for extra stool performance.
You're welcome. Zenith Aircraft did a video on it several years ago: ua-cam.com/video/aIWhaq_AtbA/v-deo.html
Great info,, thanks. I am about to order a 750 CruZer as my mission is a blend of yours. I want to land on open beaches and some grass strips, but also need to cruise over coastal mountains . How far along are you in your build process?
Gord Rose I have 95% of the parts fabricated, not counting the welded assemblies. Stabilizer is ready to mate to elevator. Elevator is ready for riveting...just need to install trim system. Flaperons are ready for skinning. Firewall is ready for riveting, cabin sides are ready for riveting. Hoping to start wings by winter after all the above are completed. I am restarting the rudder this week, but that should only take a couple of days. I have a ton of video to edit for the elevator, flaperons and firewall.
Greg's Zenith STOL CH750 , wow your really I to your project! I plan on having two team build my plane, ship the built up components to my place for final assembly and inspections. A three month project starting this winter. Don't know which engine to put in the plane yet..??
You will be in the air well before me, but such is the nature of scratch-building...the long road! Engine selection is tough...lots of good choices out there.
May I also recommend the tricycle gear version. You will be happy if you do... If you chose otherwise then you can always convert the landing gear.
Bill Hamilton The STOL CH750 is a tricycle gear airplane already. Only one or two 701s (and no 750s, to my knowledge) have been built as taildraggers, and they are custom mods.
The only thing I don't understand, why are you building the STOL and not the cruzer? Just kidding
William Davies Cuz I'm stubborn!
What does the cruzee do that a ch650 cannot do?
I cannot see the point of it.
@@philipritson8821 The Cruzer is much better suited to off-airport operations, due to the high wing and much shorter takeoff and landing roll. (better than the CH650, that is)
@@philipritson8821 The Cruzer has much better downward visibility if your mission is photography or sightseeing. It's a nice compromise between the 650 an the STOL 750. To each his/her own, I suppose.
@@8literbeater If you look at Zenith's literature, it says that the 650 will do 160 mph at 8000 feet. with a 110 hp jabaru engine
Does anyone have a cruzer with vortex generators?
Excellent question. I have not seen any yet, but I suspect some folks with be experimenting with them.
I finally made up my mind to eventually build the Mustang II from (mustangaero.com). It's the right compromise for me after looking at a lot of aircraft. Now I just have to buckle down to save up for it. I give props to you for plans built but I know myself and I need to do the kit version to realistically have a flying airplane.
Brent the Mustang II is a great airplane. I looked at that one years ago. You should have a fun project on your hands when you get started!
What is your daily job ? Are you an auto mechanic ?
I work in government. Not a mechanic by trade.
Wow. I just don’t understand why people would question you on which 750 to build. Maybe to justify their choice?
I think that's part of it. People just see the world through their own lenses. And aviation is highly polarizing. The sheer number of people who think everyone should build an RV is staggering!
Greg's Zenith STOL CH750 I know for a fact about RV’s not understanding that there are other aircrafts choices. I live in Portland, OR.
Why the hell is it stol not stal
Short takeoff And landing not short take off & landing.
Anyways I'm also a hiker/backpacker and stol seems to fit that mindset. The good to go anywhere anytime I'm ready thing
Who knows? 🤣
Short take off OR landing.
I'm asking about prices of each type !?!!
I'm not sure I understand your question. Prices of each type of what?
@@GregsZenithSTOLCH750 of zenith airplanes types
@@azzamadel8478 Ah! Okay. If you build any of their 2-seat planes from scratch, they will all cost around $5,000 USD to build the airframe (no engine, no instruments) in materials. 4-seat planes are more. That does not include tools if you have to buy tools. Engine and instrument options vary greatly, so there is no way to tell you prices on those without being specific. If you want to build the airplanes from a kit, their kit prices are updated regularly on their websites: zenithair.net [USA] or zenair.com [Canada].
I stopped at 16:05 or so because i wanted to say this. You should be building both...;) People are asking, Why did you choose X, Why aren't you building X instead... I understand perfectly WHY you are building the STOL 750, you want STOL capability in bad terrain.
With me, i'd want both. I'm constantly building, designing, and re-designing things. I want my vehicles/ tools/ shelter to be all they Can be. For instance, my 1984 Toyota 4x4 (daily driver main vehicle) isn't just a 4x4 pickup. It has onboard air, on board welder, 3k watt inverter, (2) 20gal fuel cells, roof rack, stabilizer jacks, 24+ft telescoping camera and antenna masts, onboard PC, Yaesu FT-897 ham radio, etc. Heated concrete blocks in the rear under the topper allow me to sleep all night in the winter comfortably. So it's a camper, a welding truck, portable compressor, ham radio shack, and i can still drive over a 24"-diameter fallen tree.
This is the first i've heard of the STOL 750...but if I were building it, i'd make the leading wing slats retract. That would give me short takeoff and landing...AND a more efficient cruise. I imagine telescoping 2" square tubing with ACME threaded rod inside, driven by a windshield-wiper motor or repurposed cordless drill motor and gearbox. It would be more important to close the gap on top than on bottom. I'd angle the tubing upwards slightly to bring the lower leading edge of the wing slats up flush with the bottom of the wing just as the gap closes on top.
And couldn't one put tapered airfoils on the trailing edges of the landing gear and all the struts? I'd think that would lower drag and improve cruise. Props for using a 6-cyl Corvair 110 engine, btw...
This hobby FPV autopilot could be used as a poor-man's HUD, showing heading, bearing, distance to home, pitch, roll, yaw, artificial horizon, GPS coords, battery 1 & 2, digital compass, altitude, airspeed, rate of climb, etc...for $240. Put a camera on the nose, feed through the Eagle Tree autopilot to a monitor on the dash. Record the feed with a 1 channel DVR for flight-data-record. www.eagletreesystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=136
Video (for HUD example) ua-cam.com/video/RZBubsOFsyo/v-deo.html
I'd suggest this camera, 1200 lines resolution, .05 lux minimum for color in daytime, .001 lux nighttime (makes starlight look like a cloudy day, passive nightvision. Wide Dynamic Range for good light/ dark contrast. Good for landing in poor visibility). $43. www.amazon.com/Nidici-FOXEER-Monster-Widescreen-Quadcopter/dp/B01M6ZBZ7G
Wire 6 of these up in the wingtips for landing lights. www.dx.com/p/ultrafire-t6-700lm-white-light-led-flashlight-memory-drop-in-module-silver-golden-128853#.We5oQPD09Xs
Remember...Ya gotta think Outside the box.
Thanks for the comments and your thoughts!
The CH 750 is a great airframe, as long as you don't have to look at it.
Function over form...haha!
Not sure why, at this point of 2017, you wouldn't go with a Viking rather than corvair engine... -For every reason I can think of, every measure is superior, including price.
SLFYSH I was already heavily invested in the Corvair by the time these other engine choices became available, and don't wish to scrap $10k of investment. Better in every way is debatable, but I agree it is an attractive engine, as is the AeroMomentum.
SLFYSH Viking gets his engines from auto wreckers ...........as in , used car engines involved in wrecks..........you have no history of the engine you get..........you don't know if the car owners punk son took the car out and ratbagged the engine by over revving the hell out of it.........over revving stresses the hell out of crankshafts , rods , pistons , valves , valve springs , followers etc.........I personally do not want an engine with a bad history or no history..
Well said! Viking has a really attractive engine package, but you hit the nail squarely on the head. If these were new crate engines, like what AeroMomentum is selling, that would change the game. However, the price would also change. One of the things that attracted me to the Corvair was that the engine is essentially blueprinted. Nearly everything is replaced and/or brought into the correct tolerances. Sure, it's old tech, but it's pretty reliable tech. Some trade-offs for sure, but I'll take 'em.
Aero momentum makes a quality unit with new engines used in the build up.........I like them very much , but like you , I am heavily invested in corvairs...........if I win the lottery , I will buy a 233 lycoming..
You go by FAA inspector & you would choose a lyc over a corvair ? You must not know much about Lycoming & all the problems with it. Corvair is light years ahead !
But if you went for a STOL why not a tail dragger? You could have got the new Rans S21 outbound if you waited which is STOL and 150mph cruise or what about the Super STOL X from Just aircraft? Has a fantastic spec with that Viking engine. Also why not a cub coz then you could stick the wife in the back and have increased cognitive function. Yeh I am gonna get a cub, will help with my migraines))) Obviously I am just joking with my buyer remorse windup and sincerely hope you enjoy your new plane but on a serious note was the tail dragger configuration not a consideration in your selection process?
Paul Dutton I thought about a taildragger, but I bought into Zenith's arguments as to why they aren't needed. And I really liked the Zenith construction process. Years and years ago, it took me a while to decide on Zenith. Every design has pros and cons, I suppose.
Whatever I built it'll be a bush plane, because that's the type of flying I want to learn to do. So....duh.
Why you fly in air dont you like sitting in traffic lol
You comment about working on a certified engine and not being an A&P.... Your corvair engine choice is probably more complex than any aviation dedicated engine. The savings will be in price of parts maybe.. The downside will be availability of parts and PSRU. You would be much better off to go with a Subaru engine and a gear driven PRRU. My opinion. You will probably get much beter performance and reliability from that combination as well as parts are available everywhere and you don't need a custom ground camshaft.
Bill Hamilton The Corvair is an extremely simple engine in aircraft conversion form, even with an added 5th bearing. It is a direct drive engine, and does not require a custom ground camshaft, just a re-ground (or new) one. Parts availability is also excellent. Thanks for watching!
You're going to regret that engine. I've worked on those engines back in the day, and they are junk and heavy.
Why didn't you marry a redhead instead of a brunette , or a blonde???...........at every EAA chapter or flying club meeting. , there is always some know it all that tells you what you should have built , based on his opinion.........and if it's not his choice ,then you are wrong..........you will find that these arm chair builders do not even have a project on the go , and they just like to hear themselves talk and what they say is somehow important..........it is the Ford , dodge , chev argument all over again..........a man builds what he wants to build and , as frankenfurter said to Janet , " I didn't make him for you ".......... See UA-cam video.........Rocky Horror Picture Show Movie [ scene 12 ] I have a 750 STOL under construction and if I cannot afford a Lycoming YO-233 , then it will be a Corvair 110 hp.......I am solid riveting as much as possible and alodining the whole construction.........love your vids........thanks..