Debate DISASTER: Ali Dawah vs. "Apostate Prophet" [Reaction]
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Debate DISASTER: Ali Dawah vs. "Apostate Prophet" [Reaction] w/ Abdurrahman of Knowledge North ( / knowledgenorth )
Your support helps the dawah, jazakumAllahukhairan 🤝:
❤️ Patreon: / ilmstitute
GoFundMe: www.gofundme.c...
PayPal: www.paypal.me/...
CashApp: cash.app/$Brot...
UA-cam Membership: / @saajidlipham
📚 Islamic Classes: courses.ilmsti...
👕 Merch! (shirts, hoodies, etc.): teespring.com/...
🔗 Social Media:
📱 Facebook: / brothersaajid
📱 Twitter: / saajidlipham
📷 Instagram: / brosaajid
💻 Website: www.ilmstitute.com
🔈 Soundcloud: / user-1260072
🔈 Podcast: itunes.apple.c...
Why do Muslims even call it a debate? It's NOT a debate, period. There's no topic and there's not even a moderator there. It's just 2 guys shouting at each other like high school students trying to one up each other.
Lol
Asalām-Alaykum. Best to refrain and be respectful as 'Ali is our brother in Islām.
@@muhammadaaus105 No doubt he's our brother in Islam but I'm still gonna call it for what it is.
@@muhammadaaus105 a brother is a brother but he is still like a kid in a playground
It was a dissing stalemate contest.
An a non Muslim, I respect this 2 gentlemen. They speak common sense, and I think to fight any battle, knowledge and decency argument is the way forward. I am beginning 😌 to prefer this channel, because I want to learn something.
@@alextremodelnorte1905 there wasn't bible followers in the debate,
1. Sarah at 90 gave birth to Isaac (Genesis 17). 2. Rebecca’s birth is in Genesis 22 when Sarah died at the age of 127 years old (Genesis 23:1-3), so Isaac is 37. 3. **Isaac married Rebecca at the age of 40 so she is 3.** (Genesis 25:20)
@@alextremodelnorte1905 unless you meant apus...
may God guide you and bless you
This shows the importance of understanding Qur'an and sunnah, it also shows that seeking knowledge from the right sources is the utmost of importance... Ali dawah and his side kicks need dawah..
Or we can just stay away from a barbaric religion in general lol
@Xpert diate learned Muslim?
@@johney3105 Reality isn't going what you want it to be just because you fear death.
Stay mad.
I tried to understand Quran and Sunnah but every time I ask someone to explain something in the text, the explanation is always opposite of what the text says. Don't you find that odd? Text says one thing but it means something completely opposite
Asalam Aleikum brothers, **urgent** - I bring to your attention to watch this video and bring attention to the masses esp. in subcontinent, deceived by a dajjal in the ummah :
view : **IMRAN HOSEIN: " UYGHURS ARE ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND WARRIORS OF DAJJAL."**
view : **Imran Hosein claims Prophet did NOT explain Qur'an & HE will explain from Knowledge & Insight**
view : **The Creep Imran Hosein Rejects What Is Clear In The Qur’ān!**
(regarding Jesus)
view : **The Creepy Imran Hosein Supports Vladimir Putin In His Massacre of Syrian Muslims**
I've always been a supporter of Mohammed Hijab and Ali Dawah, but this whole AP debate situation has showed me that no one but Allah is perfect and how important it is not to blindly follow. I have just discovered you two brothers as well as Gabriel el-Romanii, and appreciate the calmness and Islamic focus regarding this whole thing. It has really given me a new perspective. Hopefully we can all stay united as an ummah and deal with enemies of Islam calmly and with level heads, in order to set a good example and not stoop to their level. It really is a shame, Ali could have destroyed AP if he hadn't focused on putting on a big show for dramatic purposes.
I'm glad- although it is alarming that it took so long for you to realize that no one is perfect and no one even - Saajid Lipham should be idolized.
AP had very good points that never get a answered tho. It's always excuses and a reinterpretation
Same wallahi I lost so much trust and hope in ali dawah and hijab. I've loved hijabs channel for years even took picture with him. I''m very disgusted with ali dawah and hijab for their apauling and immature response and behaviour towards Saajid
@@isaacfoster2820 immature is exactly how I'd describe them. No shade still respect what they do for Islam but they have been very childish dealing with this type of stuff.
@@mhmd7028 it’s ego and pride
Completely agree with you brothers. If I saw this debate a year and half ago, I would never become a Muslim. I felt embarrassed watching it as a revert....
May Allah bless you brother
I have felt for some time some of these brothers have let their ego get the better of them! This not Islam and really needs to be addressed, if it is left to continue is very damaging.
The religion is perfect but not the followers, what we can do is to advise each other but do not expect flawless muslims we are also human
Truth be said, Ali is just following a part of quran's teaching. Your prophet's life is also an example he followed. Ali is prepared to let his 6 year old daughter be married if any men if approached. M hijab challenged muslims to show a verse in the Quran that say muslims man cannot have sex with a 5 year old girl. He affirmed and confirmed that Quran teaches that men can have sex with a 5 year old girl.
Best thing is you should leave islam now. Now, you understand the wrong cult...👍
In my 25 yrs of islam i believe social media has harmed more than helped.. I am sorry to say when people debate which i do not advocate debating.. Arrogance and slander and name calling does not help the situation.. All that does is push people away.. Ive had a few friends who have left the deen over the yrs and i am sure many of us know or have heard of someone who have stopped practicing.. And we hope Allah will soften their Heart and guide them back. But im sure when this AP guy sees this type of behavior and speech from Ali it only makes him more firm in disbelief.
@zman24 giver it's such a shame that all these glaring vulgarness are not spoken about. Just pathetic. Thanks to social media, now we know.
Social media has helped Islam because it shows people how dangerous the Quran and Muslims are😆
@This is the way 420 mate look back to who taught your forefathers how not to poo poo in the streets and who introduced them to the soap
Talking about Muslims being dirty🤣
I mean I did not really expect any intelligence from a Christian
Hey boy count for me 1+1+1=?
@This is the way 420 women rights? Hmmmm nvm i wouldn't even bother
Brother, I'm a medical doctor like Joker Naik, I meant Zakir Naik. It is haram brother, HARAM to use water, you should follow the sunnah of the prophet and use no more than three stones. Save water use Stones. Save paper/trees use Stones brother.
I just don’t get why do everyone feels the need to debate apuss? Wasn’t Daniel and Hijab and then recently the Teenage brother humiliating apuss, enough? People need to stop giving any more time to apuss. The guy is literally irrelevant (no pun intended).
Yeah you
Yeah you
I agree
I agree.
Bingo.
Ali dawah is not in a position to debate anyone.
He should leave Brothers like Daniel Haqiqatjou to do all the debating....
Yes, Daniel Haqiqatjou is one of the most qualified debaters.
I was supprised loom at his other debates in speakers conners they are good but this deabte wa apure chaos he got into apuss head
That’s what frustrating ,Daniel already did his job exposing him( which was needed for ap’s fan).
@@2009mixmax
Now, ap regained 'credibility' and compassion among his followers...
Is this sunnah? Is this proper conduct for Muslims?
@@zcevher in sunnah ( specially in dawah)u behave respectfully no matter what the oppponent does! If it was a personal issue then Ali dawah could behave how he wanted ( even though I personally don’t like this kind of behavior). Allah ordered musa a.s to speak softly to firoun. And this is follower of prophet Mohammad saswm and that too having an Islamic debate( supposedly). It looked anything but Islamic to me. Ali dawah should stop his debates with his low iq.
Thanks for making this video. I’m not muslim and I watched the conversation out of curiosity. I was quite surprised by the behavior of Ali Dawah. Happy to hear that he’s indeed not a relevant representative of the religion.
@@thefightingprophet. That is what you say, a biased individual who clearly has issues with Islam and even names his UA-cam account as "The Fighting Prophet". Either you bring objective evidence or be dismissed.
Anyone with a sound intellect comprehends that one person does not represent a entire religion that predates him 1400+ years.
Not to mention that no one listens to someone like you in regards to Islam since the bias is so clear. Either you bring objective evidence or you are dismissed.
There are two main approaches that are used to argue for Islam. The correct one is bringing the verses of the Quran and narrations of our prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), this is the correct approach. However, there was a time which Muslims are known for having protected or saved classical works of philosophy, you might have heard about it. That is true but the reason they did it is wrong, because they were over-exaggerating in rationalism through classical philosophy to the point that they subjected the text of the revelation to their intellect, and they took Aristotle’s ten categories as the basis of understanding Allah, and this is clearly wrong as the Quran and sayings of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) clearly contradict it. These people are know as the people of Kalâm, and Kalâm is a kind of Islamic theology mixed with classical philosophy. Ash’aris and Maturidis are the main groups of today’s Kalâm. These are not two sects of Islam, rather, multiple sects take from their wrongful approach and it looks like this present video aims at condemning this approach that some Muslims have wrongfully taken.
Hopefully this sheds some light on this topic.
@@mohamudahmed6554 How often do you fall back on the peaceful majority of Muslims rather then the doctrine itself to declare Islam promotes peace?
@R K he was same both behaved liked teenagers it was like who disses other better
@@lurkingfear1931 I don't comprehend your questions?
43:10 is 100% accurate!! The fact that some outsiders view Ali Dawah as some sort of 'figure' in islam is a travesty. The guy is a fully grown adult (maybe over 30 years old) but he lacks knowledge, comes across as a child, and just tries to imitate Hijab so much it is beyond embarrassing
Please stop backbitting and slandering the brother when it comes to matters that have nothing to do with dawah. Saying he tries imitates a pious Muslim has nothing to do with effective dawah. Please Please edit your comment akhi barakallahu fee kum
@@ahlussabr We captured some of the women as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to release sperms outside of the women. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you to release sperms inside. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
Sahih al-Bukhari 2542
@@takiyaazrin7562 if you're gonna qoute something qoute it right you knobhead
@@abumansaray7 I could have done better than ali dawah when i was 16 years old. you young kids today are a joke, like children (ali dawah is perfect example)
And also Ali dawah is a mufti menk fanboy
I'm not a Muslim but I enjoy watching your channel as I enjoy your calm rational manner...I've just watched the Ali daweh video and it's like a car crash you can't turn it off.....they should off published it as a comedy parody of a debate it was hilarious
What prevents you accepting the faith?
@@jamessmart5291 JEWISH RABBI "ISLAM RELIGION OF FUTURE"
ua-cam.com/video/qIFOqp4BlyA/v-deo.html
@@Muslim_Convert_Stories Youssef Qaradhawi: Without the death penalty for apostasy, Islam wouldn't survive.
@@lurkingfear1931 how many cases of such punishment do you know? Zero. About 20% of muslims in US are former christians. The most popular name in UK is Muhammad...
@@jamessmart5291 Leaving Islam is a crime in every country with a Muslim majority. In several it is a capitol offense. As is insulting Islam. There are 35 people in hiding under police protection in France alone just for insulting Islam. You lose as many converts as you gain and you don't have any idea how many true believers you have because they would face prosecution for coming out if the mob didn't take care of it themselves as they very often do.
I actually don’t understand why people are inviting apus again and again. He wants this. We are promoting him. Sometimes the best is to ignore these kind of people. And I am actually disappointed on Ali first. Everyone should follow the rules of Dr. Naik. If anyone wants to debate, he must have at least 2% own audience of his (Naik's) largest single gathering (about 1M people).
We can't sit down silently and watch + allow corruption to spread, however small and insignificant it is
Our Prophet (PBUH) would never have wanted that
@@TussalDragon344 he's not saying that. His point is that we should spend our energy on more important things first, they've already addressed ex-muslims now time to move on.
No way, we need bring the best debater to defeat him
@@attabaig6848 I agree, yet we still need to address their corruption. Hence, we have people like Detective O’Wil.
@@Roy-qj9br No need to waste the time of a proper and professional debater with the likes of Apus. All he needs is someone knowledgeable right next to him where anything stupid comes out of his mouth gets erased.
As an outsider (neither atheist nor Muslim) I have to agree that the debate in question brought shame and disgrace upon the public face of Islam. You two are (at least on this platform) far better representatives of your religion.
@@jirensays6994 I am a Christian who is trying to better understand Islam. I prefer to learn from Muslim sources directly rather than filtered through non-Muslim authors, books, and speakers. That is why I watched the debate, and that is why I was here trying to see what other Muslims thought of it.
What actually happened that this is such a big deal?
@@user-ww2lc1yo9c , someone else might explain it better, but I watched some videos and read posts about a challenge between AP (an atheist that has a channel that criticizes Islam) and Ali Dawah (a Muslim that seems to dislike AP a lot - he even said AP would be condemned to death in an Islamic country, and, if I remember correctly, involved AP wife in tweets). They're like two archenemies.
Deciding the condition was like a dramatic novel. As far as I understood, AP wanted it to be an online debate, but Ali Dawah required a personal debate with an audience, to humiliate AP. First, he demanded a debate in the UK, then in the USA (different places were mentioned), but then he said he wasn't vaccinated, and changed it to Mexico. Ali called AP a coward each time. AP refused to go to Mexico, and finally it was decided the debate should be online. Ali supposedly was representing the Muslims.
I didn't watch the entire debate, but from what I saw, it was weird. Ali Dawah was very late, challenged AP (an atheist) to ask Allah to curse himself, ate grapes (and didn't close his mouth while chewing, by the way), said he was the teacher there, described poorly classic theist arguments, focused on irrelevant personal attacks, ... Several Muslims thought he was very arrogant and made them look bad. Yet Ali Dawah boasted his performance, said he "destroyed" AP, censored criticism from Muslims, accused of being backstabbing, etc.
It's a UA-cam drama.
@@jirensays6994 I'll check him out.
@@lightraisedhigh so take this note if you are trying to understand Islam, if someone act not good that not mean Islam is bad , ((((((Islam is never ever be shame )))))))) take this as notice even though I didn’t notice any wrong act by Ali .. i saw the atheist manner is that means to me that all atheists acting bad ? And I saw many many Christians acting bad do you think. Isn’t that fair that I also Should say that Christina religion bought shame and disagree upon the public face of Christianity ..
You have no idea how many times I've told people that ali and hijab have always sounded like a wrestler shooting a promo, but nobody listens
An embarrassing moment for us Muslims thanks to Ali. Imagine showing this to a non Muslim who's genuinely interested in seeing a Muslim debate.
+Saquib B not gonna watch it myself. Let alone share it with a non muslim.
@@oldtimer9141 good choice. This ruined my week.
@@MosestheMuslim ruined my long weekend
Nothing to be ashamed of unless you are stupid or a moderate muslim
@Mahmoud ahmed so why did he even choose to debate him in the first place?? Haven't people like Hijab and DH already done the job??
Ali Dawah and their team should read, "Hilyatu Taalib il Ilm" "Etiquette of seeking knowledge" by Dr. Bakr Abu Zayd.
I hope they take it up and implement the Etiquettes outlined in the book. I did that book as part of IOU’s ETH101 and it was immensely beneficial. May Allah reward the Philips family for their efforts.
It would be a very good start
Can I get it in English translation.??
@@TheThankfulServant perhaps because listening to an apostate rationally could be considered "seeking knowledge" as well, since you can learn from their mistakes. Just an assumption
@This is the way 420 your boy can't turn on his brain
The only disaster was Ali Dawah babbling like a total fool
ap to the 2 are trash
So it’s very isLameic then, foolish funny and stupid! 😃👍🏼
Alhamdulilah. As an Ummah, we give Nasīha and we receive it with humility. I think its important that we don't allow the culture of these platforms to distract us from our goal which is to convey the message. We should do that with honour, good character and knowledge Inshā'Allāh.
May Allah swt guide us and give us the ability to convey the message in a way that is just. Ameen.
Inshallah.
Ameen.
@Orient Express wa alaykum salam,
Are you making an accusation against me? I never stated any of the comments you mentioned. If you were to read my comment more carefully, you'd see that my advice applies to both parties here.
@@TSRT Ameen. Keep up the good work, Allah bless you
@Orient Express Shamsi, and the likes, are critiquing Ali based on his deviation from the sunnah. It's nothing personal and is critical to preserving the deen. How many young impressionable fans of Ali will watch this video and be enticed to do dawah the same way? (by the way there are already a lot of wannabes who come to speakers corner and emulate the same speech and manners as Hijab or Ali) and it does nothing but push people away from the deen. There's no hatred for Ali, he's our brother in deen, but we must call him & Hijab out on their misguided tactics.
I always thought that Ali Dawah has good intentions and that he genuinely wants to spread Islam and teach people about it, he just lacks some skills when it comes to the execution, he needs more self control and wisdom to be able to do that properly.
Thats why i never watch ali dawah videos
He had no good intentions, he was filled with ego, and arrogance. A complete embarrassment.
@@GT-mc9eg did you cut open his heart and see his intention? fear Allaah brother!
@@tjboat24 search for Khwarizmi and the science of algorithm
@@tjboat24 stop your hypocrisy please.
If there is one thing I’ve realised about the likes of Ali Dawah and Mohammed Hijab. It is that they are extremely arrogant individuals who see themselves above others, despite how humble they portray themselves to be.
In the face of valid criticism they seldom accept their wrongdoings. Just now on twitter Ali is calling Saajid and Abdur Rahman “super salafis” in response to this video.
If he made his moral anchor-point the Quran and Sunnah rather than his ego he would not act like this.
You know what they say, birds of a feather flock together.
So y don't more Muslims speak out against these types. Why do a.lot of Muslim preaxhers disrespect other faiths and then shout, mock others. Eg zakir naik
@@James-pz6jc Zakir naik didnt mock anyone he deabtes intellectually
@@mudathirumar9902 is that so? Have you seen his videos? For a man who knows god, scriptures and is a leader in the community, he puts muslims to shame. A godly man has certain qualities and love in his behaviour...
@@James-pz6jc Sheikh Uthman has qualities and love in his behaviour DH has qualities and love in his behaviour
@@mudathirumar9902 sure ill check him out. Thanks
I actually felt disgusted watching that "debate"
You can debate and show us your strenght
@@kimaidar9078 I'm not knowledgeable enough.
@@ameenadeyemi1987 then be silent ...do not blame the others...he does what he can .but you did not ..
I hope you understand me
@@kimaidar9078
Respectfully brother.....
That was one of the worst Dawah posts in the history of posts......
Ali needs to make Taubah and reflect....
Time to drop pride and ego........
@@kimaidar9078 he did wat he could to feed his ego, nothing more, I don't need to be a first class psychologist to figure out.
This is really eye-opening. It emphasizes the importance of sticking to divine revelation. I've been watching the back-and-forth for a while now and I'm just watching this now. Now, I see why Saajid didn't respond to the reconciliation invite. It's obvious. It was never a fight. It's all about calling back to Allaah. And the reconciliation invite would sound more like a treaty to not publicly call out obnoxious conduct when publicly harnessed. Thanks Bro AbdurRahmaan. Thanks Saajid.
The points in this video (about sticking to the Quran and avoiding unnecessary philosophical back-and-forth with non muslims) are more far-reaching than we might realize now. It takes your concentration away from convincing non-muslims of your Islam, thereby looking good to them , to following actual tenets of Islam and caring about every single injuction in the shariah, thereby focusing on the hereafter.
As a none Muslim, you both show class and respect ,, if everyone was like you both we would all get along ..the London guys hijab and dawah do you or you religion no favours…🙏
this is all due to the fact that Ali Dawah and Mohammed Hijab are no longer wahabi
whats the point of this video?
I’m not sure why people think Ali Dawah has any proper religious knowledge, not all people in the debate field are knowledgeable of Islam.
There is a difference between someone who learn the religion to perfect and increase his knowledge of the Deen, and someone who learn some stuff about Islam here and there just to debate non Muslims and post a video on YT!
Alhamdulillah!! I have been thinking these thoughts for a very long time now. I have been a subscriber of Ali Dawah, M. Hijab, Smile to Jannah groups. I love them but they sure do insult and mock the atheists they debate with. That gives the message to the non-muslims that this is how the muslims behave. Gives muslims a very negative image.
I've unsubscribed their UA-cam channels few years ago except Smile2Jannah. I like his contents.
When has smile to jannah done this?
As for muhammed hijab, he actually is someone very learned and only does this against those who pose as an enemy against islam.
Ali dawah shouldnt even have had this discussion with ridvan, it seemed extremely personal to me, wouldnt you say so?
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459 we shouldn’t engage with those atheists imo. It’s pointless and it feels as if we are giving them a platform. We should only engage with people that have manners
Thank you for actually speaking the truth about this, guys do not defend falsehood. Yes Ali is Muslim but what he did was wrong and it is upon us to refute wrong doings we cannot team up with everyone like the Christian’s do. We only unite upon truth
Asalām-Alaykum. Barak Allāhu Fīk. We should refute that which is wrong in a befitting manner, since the mistakes of our brothers should not be refuted in a very harsh manner by insulting and disgracing him.
@@muhammadaaus105 We captured some of the women as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to release sperms outside of the women. We asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you to release sperms inside. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
Sahih al-Bukhari 2542
@@takiyaazrin7562 Keep posting altered hadiths, that will get you somewhere.
I’m sorry to say but what you just said is pathetic.
Apuss is a dangerous man. His lies and false rhetorics creates hate and dehumanizes Muslims in the eyes of those who don’t know Islam and in turn creates violence and attacks on Muslims. Don’t you guys see how dangerous and evil this man is?? Muslims on here, you guys need to be smart. Think for second - if Apuss targeted Jews, his channel would be shut down the moment he starts it for hate speech. This tolerance for Islam/Muslim haters like Apuss is NOT acceptable. We Muslims need to unite against hate speech by these Islamaphobes. Come on people, how can you criticize Ali here??! Can’t you see how dangerous Apuss is with his lies?? We need to shut his channel down! He has absolutely no intellectual grounds for anything in his channel. It’s all just conjectures, lies and vilification of Mohammed (pbuh) and Muslims. This needs to end now.
Edit: it’s not appreciated than Muslims like you would tolerate this Apuss scumbag when he is treated just the way he should be treated, like trash and 💩that he is.
We need to unite upon common sense and strategically bring this piece of garbage down.
Yes, but we don't make it public.
This also shows that you should never idolize any person. Every human being is capable of making mistakes. Take the good you can from people and never consider them infallible or give them a position higher than they deserve.
The reason I'm mentioning this is because nowadays, there are certain names that always come up when you discuss Islam or dawah on UA-cam or the internet, and people tend to put them on a pedestal.
I didn’t watch the whole thing, started it and just saw felt the wrong energy. Apus isn’t worth anything, yet people are chasing him for debate making him feel like he has something to stand on.
It’s the speakers corner mentality, everyone thinks they have strong knowledge and can debate anyone, even those who are not worth talking too.
Just a gigantic waste of time.
Look at the other side of the coin. If Apus is the face of ex Muslims then Islam will always be victorious.
@@scaryjoker it's all ways like that bro.
An-Nisa verse 140
He has already revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s revelations being denied or ridiculed, then do not sit in that company unless they engage in a different topic, or else you will be like them.1 Surely Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell.
Brother Sajid, your video will definitely be used as a benefit for that individual AP. Throughout, it sounded really harsh against your own brother Ali, and as though you were defending the Atheist. Although it had some important reminders, I feel like it presented Ali as a negative person as a whole rather than the specific mistake he made. The point where ustadh speaks about defamation against AP, I honestly couldn't agree less. How do you deem a person who's constantly making videos against Islam, who's job is to literally make people despise Islam, convince them that it is bad and dangerous yet somehow he's not responsible for the hate that it engender? Just because he claims he doesn't directly support violence, yet his actions prove otherwise. I'm disappointed that the ummah is so quick to jump on each other when one makes a mistake. This video could have been presented in a different light.
Bit harsh. Yes the debate wasn't a normal debate. From what I see (not the whole video) he debated in a manner to the individual he was talking to. The guy he was talking to deserves to be spoken to with disrespect for how he behaves and propagates hatred towards Islam and Muslims.
Yes He may have gone a bit overly childish way of trying to debate with the guy. And talking to such a guy will not gain much especially if that guy doesn't want to learn anything.
And last thing did you try and contact Ali dawah before talking about him on this video and speak to him about what he has done wrong in the debate..??
Ofkos thts wht im sying this the prob with saajid he keeps mking vid instead of dm them n makes relationship between islamhood shatter
Donno bout the sheikh but saajid know how is AP attitude why he act like he dont know in front of the sheikh
Nauzubillah saajid plis bro dont be like riak
I don’t think philosophy is bad when explaining religion. However I also think the emphasis of simplicity of Islam should be stressed more than any complex Socratic solutions. Calling philosophy urine is counterproductive in trying to make people enter the folds of Islam.
Just my thoughts. Please don’t bash
Your thoughts are not taken as you are not a person of knowledge or from the salaf with all do respect my beloved brother.
Lets go to the opinion of the scholars from the salaf. Imam shafi said knowledge is the quran and sunnah anything other than that is the was was of shaytan.
@@ismailah4576 rationalization is more important when trying to find god then anything. If the thing doesn’t make sense then people won’t follow it. Islam makes sense that’s why people follow it, however explaining why it makes sense and is objective is a touchy topic for many.
I do understand your point however I do understand the peoples point when they come to god via Philosophy.
@@ismailah4576 so did you find cure for COVID-19 from the Quran? According to you all knowledge aside from Quran and sunnah is from syaitan, then don’t take the vaccine. Don’t use phones as it is developed by syaitan and disbelievers. Don’t use UA-cam also 👌
@@JJmetaphysics False, Islam teaches that knowing Allah exists is already part of the Fitra and it is also also proven by a Oxford study that human beings naturally believe Allah exists. If someone insists on atheism, we already have a clear cut evidence from the Quran. You can also use reasoning similar to it, but Aristolian arguments? So we will leave a perfect evidence from Allah for Aristoteles reasoning? It is not correct. The Quran is sufficient in this and anything we derive from it.
As for Imam Shafi'is statement, it is referring to not using Kalam to understand the religion. This is not referring to abandoning non religious knowledge such as medicine since we already have a statement from the Prophet ﷺ regarding this and Imam Shafi' would not contradict it.
@@abumansaray7 No, you don't understand the Brother. He is speaking about matters of the religion and using philosophy in this, not about a scientific issue. This is a fallacy from your part.
And Imam Shafi'i is specifically referring to rejecting Kalam i.e. Aristoteles logic. To study Islam, understand Aqeeda, we don't need that. Unfortunately some Muslims specifically use that and create premises and the apply it to the religion which leads to misinterpiting the text.
Why waste time on this AP? He has no idea abou islam.
Anyone who uses their religion as a pedestal to start drama for self-gain is an embarrassment for humanity, not just the faith they claim to represent. I'm agnostic and I feel for you guys.
I wonder if you will make a video about farid responds who also made videos on AP and mocked him and called him Apuss?
JazakAllah Khair for this reaction and it needs to be said. After constant mockery by Ali to AP, AP was excessively mocking everything in Islam with his singing also. I thought this was degenerating into something horrifying to watch and I don't understand how it can be called a success by any means. The other debates such as by Daniel focused on debunking his talking points for AP's audience to understand without going into philosophy so I thought those were good.
For the life of me I don't see the benefit of debating people like Apuss anymore since his debate with DH.
I am a Christian and I understand that Ali's failures do not equate to Allah's failures. I would not judge Islam as a whole based on the actions of one man or even many men. I test a faith by evaluating the scriptures and teachings of that religion not by the flawed men practicing their religion or their failure to do so in a way that honors their God. This debate was a disaster and I felt as if I was watching a parody like Ali was only pretending to represent muslims and Islam to act like the biggest fool possible and hope to discredit Islam but God help us this man was actually honestly trying to defend Islam. Tried and failed In a shameful or horrible manor. I agree with you guys in that way and I hope you guys understand that it is OK to agree with Apostate Prophet on some things. You don't have to be enemies and you are not betraying Allah by agreeing with some of AP's opinions.
Truth is Truth regardless of who speaks it and if they happen to be in your camp or not.
May God (or Allah) Bless you all
Brilliantly said. TY!
Thank you for kind words
May Allah guide you to islam
That's too much common sense for a typical Dawah fan only looking for rekt moments. That common sense lead me to apostacy.
well said,its so true of many muslims who when confronted about the actions and deeds committed by there prophet that they simply try to avoid answering...ali dawah is a prime example of that and well done for ap who stayed calm through all the insults.
@@stepstojannah8173 keep your faith to yourself.
I mean the fact dat some of the brothers & sisters saying dey are embarrassed. A fool like apuss & those islamophobes will never make me feel embarrassed abt Islam.
@@maalikserebryakov the problem is yeah we know that apuss deseverd it because he was always provoking but our allah and prophet tghaut us to not be angry and do not insults those bad peoples islamphobe cause the wil escalate it an dinslts allah and his prophets
"Debate" is not something a Believer ought to incline toward. The activity itself breeds several negative personality traits, and makes those who practice it engage in Rhetoric; which itself is blameworthy in most cases due to its Adversarial Nature.
I believe brother Ali is not a debater
But like a straightforward Muslim
And a UA-camr
If Christian's and Athiests want to debate
So debate with brother daniel he's so
well informed debater and he knows how to debate with different people's
Then he shouldn't drag Islam to those clown shows, that's all we asking.
@@tayloryoung4974
Brother refrain from insulting 'Alī Da'wah, Jazāk Allāhu Khairan.
destiny destroyed fatty paddy daniel
Talking to Daniel will not do any good to islam either, execution of infidels and homosexuals and promotion of slavery will only give an excuse to people to attack islam even more.
@@muhammadaaus105
No.
Salam alaikum bro, Robert here. Saajid I know we had our differences, but you and Abdur-Rahman are right on the money here. THESE are our spokespeople!? Subhanallah I wouldn't show this to ANY non-Muslim family members!
Ali dawah used to be so much better a few years ago. Ever since he confronted Tommy Robinson he became more and more arrogant
I left this comment in AP's video.
This stream was a catastrophe and this comes from the mouth of a Muslim. Ali Dawah was a catastrophe. 😹
I’m a 20-year-old Muslim convert from Finland. I've noticed an issue in the American slash British Muslim community. These social media influencers like Ali Dawah - often coming from an immigrant background, uneducated young men - try to act like dawaat. They're basically wannabe missionaries. Holding no formal Islamic education or even secular education on comparative religion. Yet they claim to be "on the front lines of spreading Islam to Britain and America". They live in their own immigrant circle and dream bubble, which is detached from reality. Missionaries and academics are the real ones that are spreading Islam on the front lines but you can't find these people on social media but in the local community volunteering and in the books they've published. Natives like Tim Winters are the ones actually spreading Islam in the west like establishing Campbridge Muslim College, not these lowlifes.
Plus, these guys' behavior is mere awful. My theory is that it's due to their young age so they have no experience in discussions and seems the deeper south you go the more temperamental genes people tend to have. Their manners and word choices reflect roadman culture. But it's only expected, because many of these immigrant youth fall into street gangs due to their unstable conditions as non-citizens while growing up. Also they're narcissists who think they're holy men. Then they become Muslim social media influencers and try to spread Islam on the internet on their own without hikmah to grow their own ego, which is bad for themselves and for the Muslim community. The Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ) said: "𝚅𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚕𝚢, 𝙰𝚕𝚕𝚊𝚑 𝚍𝚘𝚎𝚜 𝚗𝚘𝚝 𝚝𝚊𝚔𝚎 𝚊𝚠𝚊𝚢 𝚔𝚗𝚘𝚠𝚕𝚎𝚍𝚐𝚎 𝚋𝚢 𝚜𝚗𝚊𝚝𝚌𝚑𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚝 𝚏𝚛𝚘𝚖 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚙𝚎𝚘𝚙𝚕𝚎 𝚋𝚞𝚝 𝙷𝚎 𝚝𝚊𝚔𝚎𝚜 𝚊𝚠𝚊𝚢 𝚔𝚗𝚘𝚠𝚕𝚎𝚍𝚐𝚎 𝚋𝚢 𝚝𝚊𝚔𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚊𝚠𝚊𝚢 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚜𝚌𝚑𝚘𝚕𝚊𝚛𝚜, 𝚜𝚘 𝚝𝚑𝚊𝚝 𝚠𝚑𝚎𝚗 𝙷𝚎 𝚕𝚎𝚊𝚟𝚎𝚜 𝚗𝚘 𝚕𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚗𝚎𝚍 𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚜𝚘𝚗, 𝚙𝚎𝚘𝚙𝚕𝚎 𝚝𝚞𝚛𝚗 𝚝𝚘 𝚒𝚐𝚗𝚘𝚛𝚊𝚗𝚝 𝚊𝚜 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚒𝚛, 𝚕𝚎𝚊𝚍𝚎𝚛𝚜; 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚢 𝚊𝚛𝚎 𝚊𝚜𝚔𝚎𝚍 𝚝𝚘 𝚍𝚎𝚕𝚒𝚟𝚎𝚛 𝚛𝚎𝚕𝚒𝚐𝚒𝚘𝚞𝚜 𝚟𝚎𝚛𝚍𝚒𝚌𝚝𝚜 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚢 𝚍𝚎𝚕𝚒𝚟𝚎𝚛 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚖 𝚠𝚒𝚝𝚑𝚘𝚞𝚝 𝚔𝚗𝚘𝚠𝚕𝚎𝚍𝚐𝚎, 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚢 𝚐𝚘 𝚊𝚜𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚢, 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚕𝚎𝚊𝚍 𝚘𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚛𝚜 𝚊𝚜𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚢".
Anyway as a Muslim I can officially declare that Ali Dawah's behavior was completely un-Islamic. He used personal attacks, rambled and acted like a little child during the whole stream. He even began devouring grapes in the middle of nowhere lmao. It's sad because I think Apostate Prophet and many others Anti-Islam Preachers are falling victim for this reasoning error. They despise these Muslim social media influencers and ill-mannered immigrants and then conclude their bad behaviors stem form Islam. In reality their bad behaviors stem from being uneducated in basic matters of etiquette how to act as human beings and in adab of their own religion. I think Apostate Prophet demonstrates this reasoning error in his UA-cam Short 𝘏𝘰𝘸 𝘊𝘩𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘈𝘱𝘰𝘭𝘰𝘨𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘶𝘴𝘭𝘪𝘮 𝘈𝘱𝘰𝘭𝘰𝘨𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘴 𝘙𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘋𝘦𝘣𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘖𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘴, look it up.
That's why I would suggest you to have a discussion on Islam with British convert Paul Williams (@bloggingtheology), Daniel Haqiqatjou (@The Muslim Skeptic) or Professor Ali Ataie, all who are from wealthy families and have studied in university level. They have a high IQ unlike Ali Dawah. They're also very laid-back, lovely to interact with and easy to reach out. A step up from these random street debaters, actual academics for once. Allah says in the Qur'an: "[𝙿𝚛𝚘𝚙𝚑𝚎𝚝], 𝚌𝚊𝚕𝚕 [𝚙𝚎𝚘𝚙𝚕𝚎] 𝚝𝚘 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚠𝚊𝚢 𝚘𝚏 𝚢𝚘𝚞𝚛 𝙻𝚘𝚛𝚍 𝚠𝚒𝚝𝚑 𝚠𝚒𝚜𝚍𝚘𝚖 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚐𝚘𝚘𝚍 𝚝𝚎𝚊𝚌𝚑𝚒𝚗𝚐. 𝙰𝚛𝚐𝚞𝚎 𝚠𝚒𝚝𝚑 𝚝𝚑𝚎𝚖 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚘𝚞𝚛𝚝𝚎𝚘𝚞𝚜 𝚠𝚊𝚢, 𝚏𝚘𝚛 𝚢𝚘𝚞𝚛 𝙻𝚘𝚛𝚍 𝚔𝚗𝚘𝚠𝚜 𝚋𝚎𝚜𝚝 𝚠𝚑𝚘 𝚑𝚊𝚜 𝚜𝚝𝚛𝚊𝚢𝚎𝚍 𝚏𝚛𝚘𝚖 𝙷𝚒𝚜 𝚠𝚊𝚢 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚠𝚑𝚘 𝚒𝚜 𝚛𝚒𝚐𝚑𝚝𝚕𝚢 𝚐𝚞𝚒𝚍𝚎𝚍" (16:125, scholarly praised Abdul Haleem translation) and you'll surely find this in action while talking to them not to these fraudsters like Ali Dawah.
Lastly you said: "This is the Online Islam Community. This is their intellectual level. You don't see this kind of ridiculous behavior in other religious communities". It isn't because Islam would be an intellectually bankcrupt religion, it is basically just because the immigrants lmao as I might state as a stereotypical patrotic Finn. Many of them are obviously psychologically disturbed but that has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with the socio-economic issues they're facing (like becoming part of a street gang with people from the same culture). If Christian people had to migrate to developed countries from third world countries and face all the life's harsh realities (language barrier, low income, lack of education etc.) and difficulty in adapting, they would cause similar kind of havoc and unrest like Muslim people today, Muslims are just in unfortunate position in the 21st century. Compare these ill-mannered Muslims like Ali Dawah to other devoutly practising but well-behaved Muslims alike of Paul Williams, Tim Winters, Daniel Haqiqatjou and Professor Ali Ataie. It's all about your socio-economic background. Don't blame Islam, blame ignorance. 🤝
Anyway this is the best video I've seen analyzing the "debate". Thanks for your superb input brothers. Dawah scene needs people like you in crisis like these. 😄
Thank you for being honest, brother. I have nothing against bro Ali, but he wasn't fit for debating anyone let alone that pusillanimous troll.
You have said it all
@@fallasleep9472 Thanks for the kind words. I've been called racist and stuff because of my comment. But I have nothing against dawah people who are level-headed. But seems like the not level-headed dawah people tend to often come from an immigrant background. There has to be a correlation, which has to be addressed in the Islamic community so we can differentiate between ignorant and Islamic behavior. And I think it's socio-economic and lack of education (no income for education on philosophy and argumentation). Anyway maybe I'm just brainwashed with Finnish Far-Right propaganda lmao. Anyway Jazak Allah Khair bro.
@@Muhammed01FI It's ok, brother. I know where you're coming from and it shows. I myself am still trying to educate my self when it comes to the religion, but I'd rather learn it from somebody like Sheikh Uthman from One Message Foundation. May Allah make the road to learning easier and protect all of us.
Subhan'Allah 42:50 - 43:10 I showed a few normal debates of Mohammed Hijab to a non-muslim and the non-muslim told me "This guy (Mohammed Hijab) is very rude, i don't like his behavior" And he praised Hamza Tzortzis for his good mannerisms while slamming Laurence Krauss for his bad mannerisms. Manners is Dawah not just speech and points...
Thats just a subjective opinion. There are also people who find mh confident and well spoken. So how is this an argument.
@@user-nx5be4sw6w it’s a statement not and argument. My point being ”Mannerisms is Dawah”
MH generally does not behave ill mannerly specially in SC , it's his style
maybe the one you showed him had Muhammad Hijab being a bit rude, but he isn't always like that. He is also talented so may come off a bit arrogant
Debates is not for Ali what so ever
I really wanted the AP vs Ali Dawah to be an intellectual and interesting discussion but, Ali Dawah was a total clown. Knowledge North is correct, Ali Dawah did a disservice to his position. I do have to disagree with Lipham in saying that doing a debate is bad @7:58, sorry guys, if your ideology can't win in the arena of ideas then it sucks - debate is exactly what is needed.
Agree, it was like watching a goat grazing on grapes amidst a serious debate.
AP is a joke. But Ali Dawah didn't really do anything that one could say was a win. Its like they were both there to entertain. Terrible debate
It was a stalemate of disses.
@@thefightingprophet. AP can wait all he wants. This shows he can't do basic research for himself. He is academically unqualified to actually even dive in to any academic subject as seen with his discussion with Mohammed Hijab. He is as layman as it gets.
So no, what is sad is your act in this comment section. This shows that you and AP do not have any experience in academics. There is no need to answer AP's demands about a subject that has been already academically presented, discussed and refuted by the actuam academics of that field. Either AP's and his fans like you are not aware of this or the content is too advanced for you laymen to understand.
So refer to the experts, don't ask a UA-camr to prove what is already proven.
Also, it is very sad that you are here lying against a religion you don't even believe in. You have no credibility what so ever.
@@thefightingprophet. I can, i will not. You made up claims about something you have no idea about. You either do your research or stay ignorant.
And no, a layman refers back to the experts. If they speak about a subject they are ignorant about, they are either ignored or refuted depending on how many people their influence hence Farid's reponds to CP, a very disrepsectful liar.
Look at you, calling Farid an idiot..exposing your hatered towards Muslims just serves us.
Speaking about laymen, you have no basic knowledge about Islam. Only misrepresentations and lies you learned from liars. This is clear since you even had to comment on one of my videos about me being ignorant about my own religion. Why are you so upset that you need to do that? So no one can see your comments? I suggest you stop that, nothing you said had anything to do with this topic. "Learn Sahih Hadith", thanks for the advice.
Then you quote Hadith that you don't even comprehend. Amazing. This is a prime example of a layman speaking about a subject they know nothing about.
Even worse, you are a biased Islam hating individual that only learns from the likes of AP and CP, two very layman individuals that openly ridicule Islam, lie to thousands, get confronted on their lies, lie again and offer no academical skills to even discuss any matter related to anything.
So these are your teachers and you think that i will bother with your rambling? 😂🤦♂️ Think again.
@@thefightingprophet. the prophet himself explained that old generations used to give names after the name of prophets thats why she was referred as sister of Haroon, if prophet was confused then how did he clarify this? As for daughter of Imraan part, AP's premise was that christian writings contradict this so Quran is wrong for calling her that. He is assuming that the specific christian writing is authentic to appease his christian followers😂😂. There is no authentic evidence to prove that Mariam's father was not Imraan. Infsct the christians of Nijran didnt object to that.Even some western non muslim scholars have admitted its a false accusation on islam. I dont want to prolong this convo but I have more arguments to refute your ignorance.
Either Abdur-Rehman at 30:00 if you had allowed, I would have hugged you for your honesty.
Could you please have a one on one discussion with me? I would give you the respect I give to my elders.
+Harris Sultan Who are you? Your only qualification in life is you're an ex-muslim. Your debate with Daniel is more than enough to spare others from wasting time on you.
+Harris Sultan Stick to your paindu audience. You can only entertain them by clowning around. No Atheist would want you to represent them in a proper debate.
@@oldtimer9141 Yes Daniel Haqiqatjou destroyed me by proving how subjugating women increases fertility rate. Some of you guys are saying Ali Dawah won too, spare yourself from “our guy won”, thousands of people who are leaving Islam are not buying it son!
@@HarrisSultanAtheist millions of atheists are also becoming religious so nobody is buying your crap either punk. Ali dawah and APUS were not debating. It was purely for entertainment purpose but even then APUS failed to recite the shortest Surah of the Qu'ran which shows the reality of you jokers.
@@HarrisSultanAtheist No no you destroyed Daniel by bringing up crabs over n over. 😂😂😂
It's funny how you keep engaging in drama because you think it'll help you increase your social media followers. Lol. Focus on your deen brother, stop discussing about people, and especially about other Muslims.
Huh?
"Our call is to the Quran!" Exactly, May Allah reward you brothers for all your good and rectify all our mistakes
what mistake ??? the guy does not believe in the quran in the first place.
Ameen
@@Userdoesnotexit so what? The polytheists in the time of the prophet ﷺ also didn’t believe in the Qur’aan yet he ﷺ used it to them to call to Islam. Are you saying the dawah of the prophet ﷺ wasn’t effective because he used the Qur’aan and his sunnah only?
I am 5 minutes in and it's already about being a "salafi". Brothers you have become too extreme.
Also the brother is speaking about Ali calling him Apuss, didn't the muslims call Abu sl-Hakam Abu Jahl?
This is a murtad who is continuosly mocking Islam, Prophet Muhammad and muslims.
Brothers Wallahi what a disapointment you have become.
this video is not doing any favour to muslims, the brother here insulting his fellow muslim brothers while trying to protect apuss, this whole video should be taken down to be honest. even if ali dawah did some mistakes, whats the point in insulting him and give chance to disbeliever to use your video as a victory for their side. at the very least u should talk to him in private. very unwise of you to be honest.
Now don't get me wrong I appose Islam as a christian and often debate Muslims. But ! I want to say I'm heartly encouraged from the comments I've seen from Muslims about Ali Dawah's behavior regarding his tit for tat with AP . A debate should be respectful . We should be focused on dispelling myths over each other's faiths and bringing what we believe are God's truth to others.
Thank our God there are still Muslims and christains out there who still have respect for each other.
Here, here. Thank you
It seems that Knowledge North is against using philosophy in Dawah to convince atheists of the existence of God. In that case, how should one convince an atheist of Allah? I genuinely want to know. Brother Knowledge North mentioned that convincing them using philosophy brings them to the level of Abu Jahl and co. That's only half of it. Usually those arguments are used to first bring a person to the belief in God and then later Islamic arguments are used to convince that Allah is indeed the true God. So what's the alternative?
InshaAllah i will try to help.
Using the Quran obviously and deriving reasoning from there. Not from Aristotle. Not to mention that it is part of our Fitrah and Allah created us to know He exists. There is also large scientific evidence that shows this.
So now, a Atheist like Dawkins himself stated that when he looks at the beauty of this Universe and wonders how it came to be, he is naturally overwhelmed with awe, feelings of admiration and a feeling to worship something due to this. He claims that he, Einstein, Sagan, all felt this. He claims most people feel this. Then he says he now has replaced it with science i.e, we will use science to understand the world instead of attributing it to God.
Obviously this makes no sense since the fundamental existential questions will never be answered.
Anyways, this was a debate he had and he described the Fitrah, something naturally built in us.
So if a Atheist can't accept the basics i.e
him being created by Allah with this and the evidences from the Quran or any other variation derived from that, then the issue is with them.
We don't convice, دعوة is not convincing, its calling to Isalm with what Allah revealed to His Messenger ﷺ using the way of the Messenger ﷺ. You call people to Islam, answer their questions, reason with them in a way that is acceptable and if they reject, your duty is fulfilled.
I used to use so much philosophy due to ignorance and wallahi i got nowhere ever. It was usually complex of ordinary people, it contradicted the fitrah and the worst is that the principles you build in a argument might not be according to the Quran and Sunnah and then when you are deep in a debate, you then realise that you made a mistake, but taking it back crumbles the argument.
Check this, I was once in a situation that i accidentally negated something of the religion in the argumens premises, but then realised that i made a mistake. I had 2 options, keep negating or retract my claims. Here is where shaytan comes in and tries to tell you that the Atheist might accept Allah if you keep goinc while falling to deviation. Alhamdulillaah i knew there is no other way to say "i made a mistake" and not continue with a flawed premise that contradicts Islam.
I later realised that the mutakallims, the sects that came from using Kalam historically literally made their arguments and principles based on Greek philosophy to understand Islam and Aqeeda related issues. Then they discovered how it doesn't work with Allah's names and attributes and then they began to negate the attributes of Allah instead of saying we got it wrong.
I literally experience a similar situation and since then i stopped using all of those arguments that were from Greek philosophy.
So you see how a deviation can come easily? That scared me.
So sincerely i advice to stick to the Quran, to the Sunnah and the way the Sahaba and the 2 generation after them understood Islam. These people debated Atheists while never using philosophy and they were more effective.
We also learn manners from them as well since it was and still is one of the subjects a student of knowledge is taught at the beginning. Knowledge without manners will give people a bad feeling about everything. Good manners with knowledge is what people will generally accept.
@@mohamudahmed6554 jazakAllah khayr
@Billy Gene. What i said is if the aim/focus is to convince of a belief in the Creator, then that only takes you to the level of Abu Jahl. That makes you a theist, not a Muslim and not even a strict monotheist. As for philosophy, its like any other secular discipline: no intrinsic harm or good in it. It depends how you use it/what you do with it. Hellenic philosophy, in so far as it expresses Classical Theism / pagan theology - that is antithetical to Islam.
@@KnowledgeNorth wa iyyak :)
@@mohamudahmed6554 Using the Fitra argument while true can't be a Proof since it can't be proven as a fact using scientific research like any other studied behavior . It remains subjective and can only be fruitful if the atheist chooses to concede the likelihood of it
. Laymen who accept aggregate arguments like the fine tuning and impossibility of no creator should only be given dawah with such arguments .
ِThe pagans had a lot of common ground with Islam and had the ability to asses the miraculousness of the Quran .
As for rationalists you can only use deductive logic and that is the basis for kalam . The premises and arguments used in the contingency are not exclusive for the Aristotelian philosophy and the common ground is negating that Allah is parts unless this is where your issue lies.
Without kalam Muslims wouldn't have been able to eradicate the heretical philosophy and esoteric that were adopted by many Muslims
Ali Dawah is knowledgable but his primary strength appears to be his courage. He is better at confronting people face to face, rather than producing an effective argument over a digital debate. This wasn't the best way for Ali to demonstrate his strength unfortunately. Let's be just and remember that this was supposed to be a face to face debate, but for whatever reason, it fell through.
The reason why he wants to face to face is so that he can overpower his opponent using aggression. Just look at his behavior online, do you think he would have been any more civilized if that debate was in person? Of course not. Ali Dawah is the typical dishonest "debator" who relies on rhetoric and aggression rather than logics and facts.
@@ianwho4244 aggressive approach can be part of a discussion through as long as delivered with facts?
Ali dawah isnt knowledgeable at all who told you this?
@@k.draghyi8424 surely, but typically that is not the case. and ali is the typical case.
Knowledgeable!!! Come on brother !!
Please can you give Ali Dawah 30 lashes.
or gashes
Ali dawah should stay out of this, period.
Unfortunately many Dawah personalities have this unholy alliance of sorts with Islamophobes. They have fallen for the UA-cam Algorithm aqidah and need clickbait, contraversy & other theatrics to grow subs and flourish. Likewise the murtads need the muslim adversary to be relevant and both have this symbiotic relationship.
When dawah becomes their career and they have no other income its even worse because they put out content for contents sake...
There is no question of "am I doing justice in representing Islam as it should and having the best of manners?"
Brother Abdur-Rahman spoke the truth AlhamduliAllah 💕 may Allah bless him and brother Saajid for this video
may Allah bless you too
@@KnowledgeNorth Jazak Allah Khayr Brother
JEWISH RABBI "ISLAM RELIGION OF FUTURE"
ua-cam.com/video/qIFOqp4BlyA/v-deo.html
Disclaimer: i am only halfway through the vid, but i don't understand why this Knowledge North is criticizing the philosophical arguments?
If someone is an atheist, how else are you going to convince them of the existence of God? By saying "It makes sense"? By saying "The Quran says so"? Why should an atheist care? Even the Qur'an asks the atheists to think by asking if they created themselves. His critique is incredibly far-fetched and unnecessary tbh. You don't have to reject Islam to bring extra-quranic arguments.
You are not gonna convince an atheist by saying "Who created the heavens and earth?", sorry.
@@abdullahmuzaffar2483 they will just say Muhammad saw made it up, or some other scribes. You can't really show them that Allah swt revelead the Qur'an without some good research. But most atheist won't want to do that if they reject the idea of a god in the first place. I agree that convincing them from Islam's primary sources is most important, but proving the existance of God through philosophy can be effective as well
@@abdullahmuzaffar2483 they can say that ahadith are a lie. That muslims oppressed non muslims. They can say that people simply believed in a false religion, which there are enough of. But i get what you're saying and i agree that's the best evidence, if the atheist is willing to listen
@@abdullahmuzaffar2483 i see what you're saying, and i agree. I'm jist saying that for some people, the cosmological argument is an effective opener. I'll check out the video you mentioned, jazakallah khair brother
@@abdullahmuzaffar2483 agree
I would like to see these Brothers give dawah to an athiest. That would be interesting indeed.
Yeah agree philosophy in deen is bad, but it’s super useful in disproving kufr ideologies like atheism and liberalism
@@PhillyPhilly1
Yeah, sad.
@@nabeel8194
Exactly, it should be used to defang them, and this is all, but when they are defanged, nurse them back to spritual health with Islam.
@@PhillyPhilly1 Shaykh Uthman Ibn Farooq gives dawah to athiests and Christians without any kalaam. One message foundation is the channel. Many people have taken their shahada and Shaykh Uthman has openly mentioned he doesn't use ilm ul kalam at all in dawah.
@@whoswho2215 💯
Ali is a decent person but I believe, either ignorance, arrogance or greed for viewership got the better of him. May Allah guide us all.
As shamsi Said he needs to study and then give dawah
Ali Dahwah failed his religion
We shouldnt give such people the platform, to spread hatred. So why "debate" this hateful people anyway?
Because it is sunnah, the Holy Prophet SAW preached and debated even the most hateful people and some of them saw the light and became Muslim. Even in our time the far-right Muslim hating dutch parliamentarian Joram Van Klaveren saw the light and accepted Islam !!!!
@@haiderzarrar4760 yh but you have to do the debate in a good way where a point is actually made instead of just yelling at eachother.
@@karimguled2923 That I agree with... Basically, Ali Dawah screwed up an excellent opportunity. Unlike Muhammad Hijab who is more intellectually articulate, meanwhile, Ali Dawah is more of a showman debater !!!!
@@haiderzarrar4760 yes, but the prophet wasn't insulting, mocking and vulgar. The former far right dutch politician accepted Islam but imagine someone like him now seeing such a vulgar debate.
@@MosestheMuslim I agree 100% the Prophet S.A.W was the best of all the creations of Allah.
.
I am talking about the Kufaar, they are insulting it is their nature but the higher calling of Dawah requires patience. Even if they do not accept Islam people that follow them may distance themselves from these insulting kufaar or just might turn to Islam. It is a judgment call, do not think that they are being given a platform think that you are using them to get the word of Allah to their listeners and maybe just maybe the insulter might also become the supporter. Look at the Quran at no point does it say to stop dawah but actually it says the exact opposite.
.
Follow the Quran and the Sunnah and not the Scholars or your feeling !!!! The Dawah must never stop, regardless of the insults and vulgarities !!!!!
Firstly, I don't endorse Ali Da'wah's behavior in this debate. I haven't watched it either. So the following points are not meant as a justification for his behavior.
Secondly, if you say using philosophy is bid'ah because it has origins in Greek civilization (genetic fallacy), then so is using Maths, Science and every other discipline that are all a branch of philosophy and they too had kafir origins.
Thirdly, brother Daniel Haqiqatjou, the same person that you constantly endorse in this channel has a degree in philosophy (multiple degrees actually), so if anyone who uses philosophy or studies it needs to be condemned for studying it and using it in his arguments, you should stay consistent and stop endorsing Daniel too (not saying should as in you actually should, but as an implication of what your reasoning should lead to if you're being consistent). Same could be said for Ustadh Bassam Zawadi whose article you have also referenced in one of your videos.
Fourthly, the brother uses the concept of "ad-hominems" multiple times in his talk (12:08, 41:16). Does the brother know that this concept has its origins in Greek philosophy too? (Read the history of it in wikipedia). Again, I am just seeing more inconsistencies in what is being advised and what is being done.
Fifthly, Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab believed in the existence of God already. There is no need to prove the existence of God to someone who already believes in one. Only thing that is required is correcting their concept of God and proving that the Islamic concept of God is true. This is why the same Muslims that you're condemning here for using philosophy here do not use philosophical arguments like contingency arguments or kalam cosmological arguments when debating Christians. Because they already believe in a God. There is no need to prove God to them. This is not the case for atheists. You need to prove God to them and then you can argue why Islam is true. Otherwise what's the point of arguing whether Islam is true, if they don't even believe in the existence of God which is a pre-requisite to the belief in Islam?
Sixthly, nobody said the contingency argument would land a person into Islam. That's not the point of it. The point is to first prove that God exists to people that don't believe that, because that's fundamental to the belief of Islam. Once you prove that, you move to proving the truthfulness of Islam. It's a step-by-step process and you're just focusing on the first aspect of it and isolating it and then saying that it doesn't prove Islam is true. Just like if you isolate a verse in the Qur'an, such as the verses talking about the ayāt of Allah in the world as a proof for existence of God, you would also not necessarily prove Islam to be true. Because a non-Muslim could just say, "Yeah, I believe these could have been created by God, but that doesn't prove that religion is true. I believe it was created by the God I believe in, not the one you believe in". So do we stop using that argument too because it doesn't land you in Islam one-shot?
My intention here was just to highlight the various inconsistencies in what the brother has said. I don't mean to offend or defend anyone through this comment.
I'm afraid you're confusing many related but distinct issues. Modern philosophy is not the same as Aristotelian metaphysics of Hellenic philosophy whence Classical Theism, which is antithetical to the Islamic conception of God/Allah. Likewise you have misunderstood the point about the contingency argument likewise being an argument for a pagan deity not remotely like how Allah revealed/described His Sublime Self. Similarly, using a terms such as ad-hominin, theo/theism, even logos and so on from cultures and belief systems extraneous to islam is not sinful/innovation unless one ascribes innovated/unislamic meaning to them.
@@KnowledgeNorth But isn't that a genetic fallacy? Just because the argument originated among people that had pagan beliefs doesn't mean every argument they came up with was arguing for that specific pagan conception of God. The arguments could have been only for specific subset of beliefs about that conception of God which may not be unislamic. Because not all beliefs of pagans are wrong. Meccan pagans, for example, believed in Tawheed ar-Rubibiyyah. A belief doesn't become unislamic just because pagans believe in it.
How can contingency argument support a pagan deity when it only shows that there has to be a necessary independent existence? That's the extent of it. Some may also use to it to show that the existence has to have a free will. I don't understand what's unislamic about that.
I do not understand the part where one is being criticized for using ad hominem and ridicule while talking to a person who ate Quran, mocks prophets etc etc and then you use terms such as idiots and morons for Muslim brothers!!!
Secondly use of science and philosophy is not something that is alien to Islam, there are multiple references in Quran where it is appealing to rational and understanding of the person. Just because you are not fan of contingency argument or consider philosophy a ضد of Islam, doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily wrong.
This whole dawah thing is not a scholarly pursuit, but people who are living in non Muslim countries are trying hard out of their zeal for Allah and Islam, and that’s it. People who are in real pursuit of knowledge will find it not in your discussion or in the other side but by the mercy of Allah in the book of Allah, Sunnah of prophet, our righteous predecessors
Did Prophet Muhammad or Sahabah ever use Philosophy in their arguments?
Ali thinks that all people who gave him advice on his so called "debate" are fake muslims. Consequently, deleting some comments. i just hope he never does this again.
I think ali dawah doesn't have enough knowledge for any kind of debate. Everything he does is for views, not purely for dawah.
I respectfully disagree. I do believe his niyyah was pure, but he lacks the knowledge and skills for a debate.
You don't know his intention. Don't judge from your self.
@@amiralandalus389 If you watch his video you will observe that he markets himself and his behavior, he makes clickbaits and decieve people into believing in an Islam that he himself constitutes. Just because you like him doesn't mean he is right. Ali needs to humbled. Follow the guidelines of QURAN, that is better.
@@focusbeast3335 i dont get it. so Ali Dawah Is Not Islam?
@@Barthieecould you elaborate what you mean by "Ali Dawah Is Not Islam"?
Brother Saajid, please continue making good reaction videos.. I loved your calm reaction.. thank you.
ali dawah only did mostly 90% nonesense and 10% hand gastures
Ali Dawah was disrespectful and unprofessional
Please call out Daniel for his handshake with David Wood.
I'm only halfway through but I had to stop how can you say it's not of Islam to convince someone of the creator when الخالق is his name.
You have wasted now a 1/2 an hour of everyone's time that could be well spent in teaching them the names of ALLAH and his characteristics which everyone is avoiding so that they can show off the broad depth and scope of their so called knowledge.
Of the various sects which is not helpful to most of the audience. You were sent to deliver the message, not to deliver the divisions within the so called muslims. The few who want to know these things will do it on their own as there's plenty of information available in English translated from the major works online.
If you had knowledge you would have stayed silent and continued listening before formulating an opinion.
Don't think with your emotions he explained why later
I love my brother Ali Dawah dearly but dawah is not only done by rational evidence but also by actions. May Allah grant ali dawah knowledge and humble him inshallah. I think he should offer an apology for his behavior not because he was worse than APUS or because APUS won but because part of being someone who does dawah is to be respectful and to not have arrogance. May Allah guide us all and free us from arrogance
Yes I hope he does that. It would be very mature of him. May allah rectify him and guide him and pardon him.
Ameen.
Ali does not deserve all this public backlash from muslims. The Islamaphobes are pleased....
Ameen
@@user-gj1ru9oe7h Ameen
first of all APUSS did noy win...
and secondly i love brother ali dawah's dawah!
I hope Ali sees this. That was a huge let down to the Ummah
He called them super salafis in response and cried on twitter.
Instead of making tawbah and taking naseeha he chose arrogance.
Cmon muslims be
"PROUD OF THAT"
😂😂😂
@Raf Ael so would you critique a 50+ yr old man doing "IT" with a 9 yr old girl?
DAMAGE CONTROL
…I like Ali, he’s done so much for the Islamic community, and he got many people to convert to Islam through logical debates with proofs, if he did something wrong we should advise him and not to mock him.
His intention wasn’t to give a platform for "an apostate" to mock Islam, then you’re saying that every debate that’s Muslim vs. non-Muslim is "to give platform to mock Islam"…
"Islam is free of Ali Dawah and his team in this debate just as it’s free from terrorism, violence, extremism, and any kind of oppression"…Don’t you think what you just said is a little extreme? Almost claiming that Ali and his team are terrorists and oppressors etc..and that they aren’t Muslims or something like that…. Dude…
I do think that Ali is savage sometimes, but if you wanna comment on something wrong he did, you can advice, and say it in a good way, instead of saying what you said, and kinda attacking him.
big simping
Ali Dawah is a clown. No one should listen to anything he says.
@@samboy90 It's the concept of one of us. As long as he is a muslim and he can do clickbaity vids that champions islam it doesnt matter dumb he is they will embrace him.
From what I recall, Brother Sajid doesn’t try to personally attack. Br. Abdur Rahman also mostly spoke with evidences and clarified certain wrongs. He even mentions that Ali Dawah is our brother in Islam and about tough love. However I believe Ali Dawah and MH have tried to make personal attacks. You should see the kind of stuff they have said..
Not only with Br. Sajid, but others as well.
May Allah guide us all, ameen.
Honestly, I don't know what are you two talking about! I watched the full Debate and honestly, it was so funny and great! Ali roasted Apuss and that was absolutely amazing! he is an ignorant joke and no one should take him seriously! .. you just bring Apuss and roast him as Ali did
I agree apus should be dragged and ridiculed like this so he never dares to "debate" a muslim again
@@Mardark-e4s exactly these two want a real debate with an ideat!! like apus 🤦♂️🤦♂️ really
@23:50 Clarification: on of unislamicness of the contingency/necessary being argument…
One of the conditions of the Necessary [Being] which the mutakallima adopted from the pagan philosophy is It's/His being immutable, unchanging. So how could Allah be speaking at one time and not another? Therefore, Allah does not speak, the Quran must be created, and so on, or so they would argue.
Hey, it's the guy in the video.
@@Wartenss The Kalam Cosmological Argument is not the only way to prove the existence of Allah. Just look at Shaykh Uthman ibn Farooq. He speaks with atheists, but he never uses the Kalam argument. And he does a good job proving the existence of Allah.
@@PhillyPhilly1
We don't prove the existence of Allah, we refute the doubts and arguments that made them disbelieve in the first place, and we ask them to ponder over the creation of Allah to appeal to their fitrah , if they don't believe after all this then that's none of our business guidance is from Allah alone.
No it’s not unislamic it just doesn’t agree with salafiyya methodology 🤣 Allah is immutable, change is huduth.
@@alenizi07
"Change is huduth" what does that mean?
Thank you for the explanantion bro. Saajid and bro. Abdurahman. Jazakumullahu khairan. I think its a just and balanced discussion. Some feedback, I'm totally a layman and I dont understand some of the words like mutakallim, apologetic, and some other. Some are explained in the video some arent, just letting you know some people in the audience maybe unfamiliar with the specific terms that are used. Thank you
That was a well thought out and rounded video. I thought Ali’s exchange with AP was cringe worthy from the start. I thought your advice was sound. I would like to see these two have a proper debate with a real topic, rather than a mess.
Another outsider here with no dog in the fight (Islam/Atheism) fight but I agree. Ali and M. Hijab are doing Islam no favors.
I almost left my Deen because of following Ali Dawah😔
HOW?
Then you should reconsider everything. If your iman is so weak, the problem is elsewhere.
I left Islam a few months ago. Best decision of my life so far
@This is the way 420 many joined so don't worry about it and worry about your dying religion before you have to spread it back again by ❤love❤ like it spread in the first place
You invested your deen in him?🤔
Ali Dawah is a clown and the worst debater ive ever seen
Shamsi has been addressing his for long now.
Ali repeatedly damages the Islamic cause and public image, he needs to be publicly disowned
Even if Ali tried he would not have succeeded against AP. Islam's fruit is there in the scriptures for all to see. It is in black and white.
First of all, AP got exposed for his utter ignorance already.
Secondly, Can you read the scriptures? Do you resort to exegesis like everyone else
Or do you misrepresent a poor english translation of the Quran from the information hate websites like Wikiislam give you and think you got something?
The last thing people like you, AP and Wood do is go to any scriptures without lying about it. The moment you invent something no one ever believed in for 1400+ years, it is clear your goal is to divert people from something you yourself see as a threat and as something than you can't refute without lying.
So is it wrong to use arguments in order to prove the existence of god? What's the problem with the philosophical arugments if you want to prove the existence of god? Sometimes we have to respond wouldn't you say?
There is ni need to prove the existence of Allah. Its obvious. It's our natural disposition. Just look at human history. Just look around you. Look at yourself. Our personal experiences is enough. Any that argue otherwise should be left alone after warning them of what is to come and the good that awaits the believer.
@@hitogi06 Theists have different ideas of who God is. How do you prove which claim is true?
@9jaForce Preserved message. Multiple people through history have claimed to be sent from God. Look for the one that has come for this current time(and for you) and see how preserved the message is. From there, you will get the details of what God is. This description has to come from the Prophet( The direct message from God, and the prophets explanation of it). That would be the best way to go about it. Although, if you don't believe in God, or something that created everything, then it would be useless to look for which description is the correct one.
@@hitogi06 A preserved message is not necessarily true. Homer's Iliad is older and better preserved than the Quran, yet it's a work of mythologies.
Shakespeare's books are better preserved than the Quran, yet they are works of fiction.
Perfect preservation is not an evidence for truth. The Quran has about 37 versions. The Haf's and the Warsh even have a couple of difference in meaning in some of the passages. That is not even a "miracle" of preservation as you'll want us to believe.
Why should we believe that their exist a man called Mohammed who received revelations from God?
How do we know this revelations are true since their was no witness?
How do we know his messages are from God since their was no miracles to confirm his prophethood?
@9jaForce has anyone memorized those books as the quran is memorized? No, they are not. Are they recited( parts) 5 times a day, everyday? Are they read as much as the quran is read. No, they are not. Are there scholars that dedicate their lives to memorizing those books with the historical evidence as the Quran is with the Ahadeeth? No, they are not.
They are many historical evidence of Muhammad's existence, what he said, and what he did. Not only that, you have thousands of people who memorized those evidence by heart.
I'm not here to convince you it is true. You are the one to make that choice. Just know that we will all die one day, be it tomorrow or in years to come. You only have this life to make your choice. So, if you are interested in knowing why you are alive, leave your preconceived notions of Islam to the side, read the Quran and the life of the prophet that it was revealed to.
If you are not interested, the leave these comments sections on islam and go live your life. Because as far as you know, you only have this one life.
I watched it and felt very disappointed.
I am an agnostic atheist and I watch these debates purely to enjoy a good discussion. If it's not forced upon me I can respect any religion. But, my god. Please disown that Ali Dawah. For your sake and ours. I am sure Muslims can do much much much much better than that clown. A literal man-child.
I am not his fan but subed his channel for the sake of Allah and but I sajid has more credit than Ali, and based on this video I will surely unsub him for the sake of Allah
@Hm[] we have no problem with his beliefs ( as long as it’s according to Quran and sunnah- I didn’t waste my time on the debate because apuss is not worth my time- I did waste a lot of time on him and realized he’s a loser. I can’t believe Ali dawah have him his precious time). So we don’t disown Ali dawah but this will give him a message for his BEHAVIOR, which was not according to prophet Mohammad peace be upon him
We as muslims might disagree with br. Ali dawah but We do not "disown" any muslim no matter what he does unless that muslim blasphemes God/islam and becomes a Murtad. You on the otherhand are a non-muslim/non-believer and have no buisness in what we as muslim brothers disagree/fight each other about. Know your role and be respectful.
We would never disown a Muslim brother because of what an atheist says .He still our brother in islam , I rather support a Muslim than a non Muslim any day of the week.
@@applez3015 even if a Muslim committed a bad act?
So another thing I must point out - "there is a time for ridicule and mocking" - Why is there such a need for this? In Christianity, the Apostle Paul teaches: " Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." Granted - MANY Christians don't follow this either, so it is like you say, a human thing to do, but mocking of others is not a good thing for anyone who claims to be a servant/child of YHWH.
Why Don't you talk to Ali Dawah what he did wrong, face to face. Why talking about it to brother saajid?
Cmon bro. if we talk to him face to face, how are we going to make reaction videos? We have to keep on eye to our muslim brothers if they make any mistakes so we can spend our bandwidth and time to make HQ reaction videos.
@@firojmahmood7473 lol
"We have no doubt and we are proud of that" . 👅🍇👅🍇👅🍇
- Ali Davah -
Hijab & Dawah are the best disasters for Islam. Are there any good arguments FOR Islam? What are your best argument?
SubhanAllah, this reaction video was an eye opener. Never thought about the philosophical contingency argument in that way. May Allah keep is all steadfast upon the correct aqeedah! Jazakallah hu khairan
barakAllahu feek
@@KnowledgeNorth stick to history. This is a subject beyond your comprehension and you obviously lack that in this area. Or you can jump in with fellow conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones and the Shi'ites
@@JohnDoe-zw1vx history is my hobby. creed is my career. so if you can show me where i have advanced a conspiracy theory and/or falsely implied it as creed, please do
@@KnowledgeNorth creed is you career but you seem to lack an understanding in this field from what is evident. Stay in your lane. Your an Alex Jones type conspiracy theorist who believes like other rabid salafis of your ilk that Muslim scholarship has been misguided for the most part for the past 1200 years. You may not openly claim it but it's evident and your comprehension of these issues clearly shows in this video
@@JohnDoe-zw1vx
You sound like a very educated buffoon. Feel free to elaborate and amuse us all.
Quran 52: 35-36 addresses the atheist:
"Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain."
All arguments for God's existence should be based on this verse.
Strictly-speaking, this ayah is addressing/referring to polytheists, not atheists. But you are right, it provided a solid argument for His Existence.
Quran also talks about Fir'aun, who was an atheist.
Fir’aun said: “And what is the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)?”[ Surah Ash-Shu’ara: 23]
Fir’aun asked this question denying Allah the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth. Thus it is incorrect to say Quran has nothing to do with the atheists.
You should NOT debate in public if you are not a person of knowledge as this sort of embarrassment can happen. Islamically, not my own opinion.