I can hardly articulate how much pain this book caused me. When I was contemplating leaving my abusive husband, my mom gave me this book; I blamed myself for my own abuse tried so hard to respect him enough to make it stop, stayed for two more years and broke mentally because of it. FUCK THIS BOOK. The book that broke me out of my fog was called “why does he do that” and it correctly labels abuse and puts the blame where it belongs.
A local church near the small town where I live literally had a bunch of members congregate in the hospital room of a woman whose husband beat her so badly that he broke ribs. They guilt-tripped her for wanting to divorce him and, more or less, said that she was the one who was sinning and that she would go to hell if she left her husband instead of forgiving him. It takes a special level of toxicity to gang up on and psychologically abuse someone who is lying in a hospital bed due to domestic violence.
I am so sorry you were stuck in such an awful place, but very glad you found "Why does he do that." I've read it cover to cover three times, and it helped me make sense of a lot of my dad's abuse and its effect on everyone else in the house. I will never not recommend it - I've passed my physical book around to others a few times, and I'm sure there are a bunch of legit free pdfs of the entire thing floating around.
My new favorite genre of content is women breaking down sexist logic using facts, context, and critical thinking. You seem like a wonderful and smart person, I'm happy you're no longer living under this subjugation. I'm positive that your voice has already changed at least one person's life!
I had a elderly widow neighbor tell me that she had told her husband the day after the wedding that if he hit her , that she’d just wait until he was asleep to hit him back with a frying pan ! One of those old fashioned heavy cast iron frying pans. They were married for 50 years and he never hit her. She missed him terribly. I’d noticed that widows who miss their husbands never had to put up with the abuse .
I love this so much. My marriage was really in trouble and our pastor at the time gave us this book to read. The church just bought a surplus of copies to hand out to young couples. It did help us..... Because we spent the time reading it together and realizing how absolutely ridiculous and awful it was. It helped us define what we needed to fix (all of the toxic bullshit found in this book) and helped us to really nail down exactly what type of marriage we wanted (not this toxic bullshit), while bonding over how laughable and terrible this book was lol. The Pastor followed up with us a few months later and we both said it helped so much we were deconstructing haha! That was 7 years ago and still going strong in our heathen ways
They always tout this “quite and gentle nature”. Those of us with naturally loud and outgoing personalities were doomed from the start in this world. No wonder none of the good Christian boys ever wanted to court me! And thank goodness! Can’t imagine having to deconstruct while being legally tied to one of these idiots.
I started off being very shy but was forced to come out of my shell in secondary school so then became a chatterbox. But went back into my shell when I became an evangelical and fundamentalist Christian when given a list of things not to say and a list of subject that were taboo subjects. Never told what to say though. The less I said the better. Even when I complimented somebody that was twisted around to mean bitterness, envy, malice and resentment. It was constantly like being around a bear with a sore head when any move would aggravate that bear. That's what we mean when somebody is in such a bad mood or are so hungover they are like a bear with a sore head. When a pin dropped sounds like broken glass to them. I eventually got myself onto assertiveness and public speaking classes. Taking acting classes would have probably helped as well. When you are an ambivert who can swing one way or the other depending on who you are with or a natural introvert who has been taught to communicate it's much easier to shut you up.
The "quiet and gentle nature" ideal pushed onto women is even quieter than peope I know outside of Christianity who are naturally that way. It gets to the point when you become mute as you aren't allowed to say anything even nice things. Even complimenting people gets turned around to mean an 'insult' and you were motivated by envy or malice. Asking somebody how their holiday was is turned around to mean being 'nosy'. You can't show an interest in other people other than to watch and listen and it's even worse if you talk about yourself, your interests or other people. Even if you sit there listening you can be damned for eavesdropping. It's like going back to the old days of children being seen and not heard only enforcing it on women as well. I've never met people so thin skinned as fundamentalist Christians. Even popping off to the toilet is like a big insult to them.
The unquestioning obedience and respect of hierarchy is used to justify even appalling abuse throughout religious structures . You have an amazing gift in being able to articulate these issues .
I had to read this book when I was engaged and it MESSED. ME. UP. For weeks I was not okay and contemplating not getting married. I was so lucky to have a fiance who insisted we change marriage counselors after that.
I love the “it was Eve who…” excuse. I remember reading some ancient Jewish writing that suggested the fall was actually ADAM’s fault. If you read Genesis, God told Adam not to eat the fruit of that one tree, and THEN he created Eve. Later, when the serpent tempts Eve and she talks about the commandment, she has it wrong-God never told Adam not to touch the tree, only not to eat the fruit, but somehow she believes she’s not even to touch it. We can assume Adam added that bit, hoping to protect her by keeping her from approaching the tree at all. The Jewish writing goes on to suggest that maybe the serpent pushed her into the tree, and when she didn’t die, she then doubted everything she’d been told, and decided to try the fruit. It’s ADAM’s fault she was so easily misled. Plus, again, Adam got the command straight from God, and he chose to eat anyway, and it wasn’t until HE ate that they suddenly became ashamed of their nakedness. So the fall was because of HIS disobedience, not Eve’s. Since this is a parable anyway, it might be silly to postulate at this level, but if these people are going to keep dragging out the whole “Eve caused the fall” argument, its’ worth asking them to reread the story with a new lens.
You make a good point. And honestly I started to realise something. We are the victims of this whole thing. Because of stupid Adam we all had to be born in sin AGAINST OUR WILL. Like we didn’t want to be born in sin, we didn’t get a say in what we’ll be like. And because of Adam we were now infected with the sin virus. Yes I’m calling it a virus and a deadly one because that’s how annoying it is 🙄and because of this stupid virus Jesus had to die for us and we still struggle with this fear of hell and constantly questioning our beliefs. If it weren’t for Adam we would be chilling with God BUT NOoOo Adam had to follow his stupid desires. And ik some Christians are gonna be like “oh but you would’ve done the same thing because we’re all sinners” complete BS because if I were in the garden of Eden I would have not known sin and also we all have different personalities God created us to be different from each other so how the heck would you know??
@@its_just_me6183 Another mind-bending thought: there is a huge difference between being religious, and having a relationship with God. Religion is man’s invention-we make all kinds of rules that go way beyond anything God told us. Think of it: when Jesus walked among us, who were his chief enemies? The Pharisees, and his main quarrel was that they added to the Law and hypocritically demanded that others follow rules they themselves couldn’t keep. Religionists. Could we conclude that religion is actually the enemy of having a relationship with God? That the obsession with rules and laws keeps us from drawing near to him? I’m not saying go out and do whatever you please. I’m saying that maybe the only way we can live lives that are pleasing to God is to simply rely on him, trust him, and focus on relationship with him-that HE will direct us, rather than the rules.
Also, my translation of the Bible I used in Sunday School (NIV) said that Adam was with her while the snake was tempting her. The second half of Gensis 3:6 NIV says, "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it." So by that translation, Adam was there to hear the snake tempt Eve, and he did nothing to stop her. She bit first, but he was equally guilty. But even if he wasn't there to see the snake, he was still a grown adult who was responsible for his actions. He knew that fruit was forbidden, but he decided to eat it anyway. People who read that story and take away that "Eve caused Adam to sin" are projecting a LOT of messed up opinions about women and responsibility onto the story. But sadly, far too many people do exactly that. EDIT: Also, ironically, the devout God-fearing Christians who blame Eve are questioning God's judgement. God didn't give Adam a special pass because "Eve started it". Both were kicked out of the garden and condemned to die. If it was all Eve's fault, was God unfair in punishing Adam too?
I just wrote a similar comment, about how the traditional, original and much more ancient Jewish interpretation is that Eve was chosen by the serpent not because she was less intelligent, savvy or more gullible than Adam, but rather the exact opposite! I can find my comment and post it below.
Here's my comment that I just posted: As a former comparative religions student, I find it fascinating how the interpretation of genesis has evolved from the original: traditionally, in the original Jewish exegesis, Eve was deceived because she was MORE intelligent, strong-willed and savvy than Adam, who was more gullible and thus vulnerable to temptation. This ancient interpretation goes along the lines of: the serpent knew that it could convince Adam easily to taste the fruit, but that Adam would never be able to convince his wife or do the same. So, it chose Eve knowing that she would be a more difficult target to tempt, but that she would then be able to win over the more gullible Adam with her intelligence and words! So the original interpretation is quite literally the exact opposite of the Christian version, which came along thousands of years after the text was written. Anyhow, I find it fascinating (not to mention confusing and at times infuriating) that a text which was written to show that women are more innately intelligent and less gullible would later be taken to mean the exact opposite.
I love how you talk openly about feeling othered by being a woman with a high sex drive in the church- I had the exact same experience, I was experimenting with my body and with explicit material before the church gave its lecture to the people in confirmation classes about how that's wrong-- and that lecture was framed specifically as 'this one's pretty much just for the boys'. I felt like such a freak for being actively interested in sexuality as a teenage girl
The thing is that's not biblical at all. The only time sexual relations are mentioned both men and women are given the same instructions. That we are to give ourselves freely to our spouses. Men to their wives and wives to their husbands as we are one body. Excepting for times of fasting. This was because men don't always have the higher drive. It's ridiculous they frame it as a man's problem and not a women's. As a wife with a higher drive then my husband it also hurts when it's all about men need sex, you begin to feel like theirs something wrong with you if your husband's not like that.
@@mikereseigh I’m sure these relationships are difficult for many men, and I’m sure many ignore this stupid type of advice, but it must be hard for decent men to hear such drivel and be expected to follow the example. Unfortunately, it also gives abusive men permission to be bullies to their wives, and to have plenty of back up in that abuse. In the end it leads to some sort of suffering for someone,and that is a fact.
Why can't the woman just submit directly to God? Considering that God is perfect, wouldnt he be the ideal leader? Why are men so terrified of having their wives be their equals? Oh yeah, maybe it has something to do with their passive aggressive mothers who were seething with rage at having to be servants to their husbands.
When you have a sitting US Congressman admit on the record that he has never seen a woman enjoy sex, another admit to paying a 17 year old to have sex and not resign, and another that thinks women need to take birth control every time they have sex, it's not weird to see this kind of nonsense about 'men's sexuality' and 'respect' from the pop-christian world. But something about having it on the pages of a national bestseller just drives the anger up a little bit more. Thanks for walking through this so we don't have to.
Who was the US congressmen you are referring to? I tried a Google search on the first situation described but nothing seemed to show up …perhaps I searched incorrectly?
That story that the author told about how his dad choked his mother but it was not really abuse really grinds my gears! Choking someone is attempted murder, period. I know that there are bills in some states that declare choking to be treated like any other form of attempted murder, but I don't know the status of any one of them - not even in my own state. If this man cannot see the abuse that he grew up with, he has no business writing a marriage manual - especially one that emphasizes the husband-leader/wife-submissive model. ~ Anastacia in Cleveland
My stomach is turning as I'm watching this. Here, let me set you up to be abused, then tell you your husband is not abusing you, and also if he is, it's because you can't respect him. Oh and don't forget you can be sweet enough to manipulate your husband to stop abusing you. What the actual fuck?! -Dee
I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the part about the mom shaming her daughter for not having enough sex with the husband. Just so random and inappropriate
Did her son in law tattle? But I’m sure that’s what’s happened to Anna Duggar. You know she’s been blamed for everything that’s happened with the pig she married.
As an asexual, that part made me cringe. That was the type of stuff my ex would pull-guilting me because I wouldn’t have sex with him enough. So glad I’m not with him anymore!
I remember reading and absorbing this book, thinking it was great. Cue several years later, I'm getting divorced. Although he initiated the divorce due to finding someone else, as I was healing from the trauma, I realized I had a lot of healing to work through from the marriage. And the biggest thing for me is that he didn't respect me as a person. Sure, I felt cared for but he used to say deeply disrespectful things. I feel so free to be myself now and I'm glad I'm out of the marriage. When I was pondering these things, I remembered this book and realized how messed up it is.
Yes also in my case married 16 years to an abusive, cheating alcoholic. His family blamed me for his behavior. My ex mother law Suggested I get psychotherapy. I did get therapy after the divorce for PTSD.
Someone recommended this to me and my sister when she got married for the 2nd time. We read it together and laughed until we cried. We still joke about "stepping on your love hose". After my sisters wedding, we found giant pink and blue plastic glasses and decorated their house with them. Very thankful that me entire family escaped the life that this shitty book idolizes.
The only thing in there that I think he got right is that women do feel loved when their partner listens to them. Not just babbling about making tater tot casserole, but about how she feels, when she’s hurt or sad or angry, happy, curious, or joyful, excited to learn.
I'm a Christian dude, and this way of thinking about women really ticks me off. My wife and I are abundantly happy together BECAUSE we treat each other as equals, and both love and respect each other. I would argue that if your love your partner the way Jesus loves, they will get all the respect they need. Men who don't think their partners don't desire respect are terrible people; men who don't think they crave love are damaging themselves.
You clearly haven’t read the book. The main premise of the book is that men and women are equals. But the majority of men interpret conflict in marriage as a lack of respect and the majority of women interpret conflict as a lack of love. This guy goes on a strawman tirade and clearly, he didn’t read the book.
@@theretroreseller2434 That's not a full premise of the book. It says that men and women are equal and interpret marital conflict in different ways as you stated, but that is because they have different ways of interpreting the meaning of how each other reacts in certain scenarios because men and women see and hear differently, it comes down to communication.
I had no idea until recently that Focus on the Family was even fundamentalist. I grew up with it, and just thought it was mainstream Christian. In fact my Aunt worked for FOTF as an editor for years and I was SO proud of it!
Same! We had so many of the adventures in Odyssey on tape and we would listen to them on long car rides... I never got exposed to their adult ministries in the same way and did not realize how deeply sinister the organization is.
Same no idea how messed up they were until well into adulthood, they were also the only sex-ed that I got at home. Luckily I had friends outside the church that were a better info source for that type of thing.
Same omg. I can say that I went to a fundamentalist church (Plymouth Brethren denomination) for most of my life and switched to an Alliance church in high school. So the Focus on the Family messages fit right with the first church. The second church, though, had -gasp- female pastors who preached! It's strange that basic equality felt so radical at the time after coming from a church that preached that women must be silent.
Oh gosh, they are super anti-lgbtq, anti-feminist, anti-divorce, & Dr. Dobson himself has advocated for severe corporal punishment for both children & pets! Like he has said he beats his dog with a leather belt, & thinks that’s okay 🤬
That is INSANE, that organization is so bat crazy!! How could anyone grow up and not realize how bonkers it is? I feel so sorry for all of you raised in these cults!
My husband I were given TWO copies of this book when we got married. Even back then we thought it was weird. Other than sitting on a shelf for a few years, it played no role in building our marriage. Many years into our marriage I took it off the shelf and began reading it. That book has absolutely no understanding of what a real marriage is. It made me sad that this was the best “advice” that our church could come up with for two young people getting married. It was one of the things that made me wonder if anyone in these churches actually read these weird books that they pass out like Halloween candy. I threw both books away. My husband and I have been married for 17 year. We are partners and allies building our life together. We have no need for such a simple minded book.
You nailed that one. When people go on about a man being respected, it isn't actually about respect. It is about control. I am a husband and a father. My wife and kids absolutely respect me. We can talk things over and a lot of times, I don't get my way or they decided on a different course of action. I don't see that I was being disrespected as my view was taken into consideration. They simply decided another course was best for them at that moment. Men who see challenges as disrespect are actually upset because it is a loss of control. But, controlling every little aspect of the lives of your spouse or children is disrespecting them.
I'm 70+ and see things from a different perspective. Your videos are excellent. You express yourself clearly and thoughtfully. I'm learning things from you I need to learn. I am a Christian, and that makes me MORE interested in evil in the church being exposed. Thanks!
As a boy bored in church I used to find and read the naughty bits in the Bible. In those days before the Internet that was my only possibility of accessing such material.
That's the book my pastor recommended in our pre-marriage counseling! I was fortunate that my husband was not raised evangelical and he thought all this gender stuff was gross and wrong from the beginning. He was raised by a strong single mother to believe in full equality. I spent 10 years trying to "submit" to a man who refused to "lead" 😂
Around 18 min I started thinking, how did I read this book multiple times and not realize how bad this is??? Last time I read it was when I was going through some trouble in my marriage and thought I could fix it because my husbands problems were somehow my fault....guess what, therapy was the right answer instead XP
their are 2 people in a marriage and marital problems are NEVER all one members faults. the book does say that. BUT you can work on your marriage without the other on bord and win your spouse's hearts over.
Me too, I am from Australia and although there are some ultra-religious people here, majority of Australians would laugh in the face of anybody who tried to make them read that book.
It seems like these guys pay lip service to the part that says men should love their wives, but they don't really practice it. If you love someone you have empathy for them, and you want the best for them. You don't want to be a controlling tyrant.
There's no hate like Christian love. The more controlling fundamentalist Christians don't have friends; they have projects instead and once you have worked on a project and it succeeds or fails you get bored and want to move onto another one. The more submissive fundamentalist Christians don't have friends; they have thought crime wardens who control them. Fundamentalist Christianity thrives on bully and victim types in every church but the victims are now so fed up they have left those churches because they can only take so much. I've heard that the bullying is much worse since I left 20 years ago when it was much more insiduous and covert.
Did you ever read the book “The Total Woman?” Someone in my mom’s Bible study gave her that book. I really think that was the start of how fundamentalism messed with her head and reinforced already strong feelings of inadequacy. Seems like pretty much all “marriage manuals” in fundie culture hang on the same basic threads-the woman must unquestioningly submit to her husband-even if he’s a drunk bum-because theoretically giving him that “respect” will help him straighten up (so it’s her fault if he continues to drink, can’t hold a job, and even abuses her and the kids, because she’s not submitting properly). Also, sex is not up for negotiation. If he wants it she should submit, or he’ll go elsewhere (making her responsible for his fidelity). The Total Woman was written by a woman, but it doesn’t matter. If it isn’t a male author mansplaining women to women, it’s a stepford wife mansplaining women to women.
Thank you so much for doing what you are doing. I followed that harmful thinking and got in an abusive marriage, so did my sister and my aunt. I'm divorced and not a Christian anymore and I can see how harmful Christianity is to families. So abusive and even for the little boys. Christianity warps their minds so grow up they think they gain love and respect by being in control over women.When this doesn't happen it drives them to get try to get even more control over women, which does the opposite and they stop loving him and respecting him. It's such a vicious cycle of abuse that's handed down from generation to generation. Until someone finally decides it's wrong and breaks the stupid cycle.
Wow, how much more expansive and holistic your life seems to be now that you've broken down many of the barriers fundamentalism tosses up. It must be so liberating to throw all those rules and such out and just live and experience the fullness of life. I wasn't raised in this kind of environment, my mom was pretty progressive for the social norms of the 80's and 90's, so I was always encouraged to be around all sorts of different people. It's something I'm always so, so glad she did because as an adult I can let people get on with their lives without constantly worrying about where they go after they die. As an atheist I think this life is all we get, and we should make the most of our time because I don't think there's anything after this. A scary thought, for sure, but for me I'd rather face what I consider to be the reality of the situation rather than running around wasting my time trying to "save" everybody. Our differences are what makes us special, and I'm a sucker for non-conformity and the underdog. Everyone should wave their "Freak Flag" high in my book!
I have the Islamic version of this book. It’s called “20 Pieces of Advice to My Sister Before her Marriage” by Basra Bin Ali Al Utaybee. It’s in English and currently available on Amazon. It’s pretty much Salafi Islamic purity culture with advice very similar to this book. No I couldn’t finish it. Fun fact: this book helped pull me out of Salafi Islam.
My husband read this when we moved in with our roommate, roommate's parents felt it was something we needed. We were glad to get that book out of the house. Roommate is pretty grossed out by the book too.
I grew up in a form of Christianity that is so so different from how you grew up. It sounds like the antithesis of it, actually. It was Egalitarian Episcopalian, Progressive, LGBTQ affirming, embraced women in the faith (my minister as a teenager was a woman). I grew up in a church/with a faith far across the spectrum as you can’t get than you did. My mother actually threw away a copy of the “Strong Willed Child” by Dr. Dobson. That was a big deal as well, books were a BIG DEAL in our home-they normally weren’t treated like that. I’m so sorry you were put through all…*this.* Especially in the name of Christ. It makes my stomach turn. I 100% respect you have a different path and am so glad you have found (and ate still finding) healing on that path.
That.Book. Advocating child abuse. My dad had a copy, and I read through it as a preteen or young teenager in various spurts. It’s truly disgusting. Thankfully, love has won out in our family, and my memories of my dad are much more pleasant than most of my mom(who was also emotionally neglectful and unavailable). I lost the opportunity to truly confront my mom about what went wrong during my childhood and adolescence as she died 11 years ago when I was 20 of a rare cancer. But I don’t know if she would ever have been ready for that conversation, and I would not have grown as a person in the way I have without escaping from her ‘grasp’. I have a genetic disorder called Turner Syndrome which has left me very short and small (4’8 and under 90 pounds), and my mom did not treat me in an appropriate way most of my life, let alone being emotianally unavailable and physically abusive until I was 11. That last hit when I was 11 was the final straw and I knew I could never trust her, not with anything important to me, again. I probably actually wouldn’t have found out about my heart condition, my genetic condition, nor received treatment for my Anorexia had she still been alive because I lived to keep the peace and not upset her…as a teenager, my sister told my parents how bad things were with my depression. Said we really needed family counselling. It went nowhere at all. Was never discussed nor acted upon, and I was already in counselling that would have easily extended into family work. I still struggle with the guilty feelings that my life is easier and in many ways better without my mom in it, and that I have grown so much since then…I am also from a very progressive friendly congregation that welcomes everyone, I’ve had a female minister, and the basic phrase we live by is ‘love wins and God is love’.
The thing is, it is the case that hierarchical, static morality, LGBTQ rejecting, and woman submitting, is all material that is directly from the Bible. To reject these things is largely due to the influence of sources outside the Bible. To me this brings up the question of, if every time you want to critically examine your beliefs and this analysis leads you to embrace more aspects of modern culture and reject aspects of the Bible... maybe the Bible itself is the problem not our interpretation
^Well, maybe if you only use shallow interpretations. There’s a reason Bible scholars and actual academics who study those texts in their original languages and historical contexts don’t say those things. But even if you find sexist things in the Bible, so what? It’s called Christianity, not Bibleism. You don’t have to be a Christian of course, but if you want to be one, there’s no rule that says you have to worship the Bible.
Made me glad I never read that book. Some people seem to act like this book won them a marriage, which looking back is ridiculous as marriage is not a prize or contest. But sounds like a very sexist book and like its trying to be a one fits all but thats just not possible. And there is no excuse for abuse!
Hey, the logarithm gave me your series. So I gave it a watch. I have to tell you Elly, from my perspective as a mainline Protestant and man, it feels like you should really be proud of your journey. This video is an example of this. Your criticism of the book is spot on, right on the money. The self-reflection and ability to see how abusive and harmful these sorts of messages are really come through. Just thought I'd tell you, you come across as very intelligent and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing.
I am so glad you are sharing this. I had a Pastor give my husband and I this whole course when we were having problems and it really angered me. I am a social worker now and separated from my husband for a while, still trying to wrestle out what I believe. Your channel is very interesting.
As I was listening to this I thought of how the channel Savy Writes Books would have a field day coming up alternative titles. She would be all Love and Douche Baggery Guides to Marriage and a few others. Also it seems most of these books can be summed up feel crappy about yourself and become a religious Stepford Wife.
I literally went through this book, and a workbook, and a class based on it while engaged. I did this on my own without my partner because if I as a woman just learned it well enough our marriage would be great. Cut to divorce 4 years after that 😂
I can't for the life of me recall the title of the book my mom had me read on sex advice within marriage, but I do recall that it was an old edition and near the end it explained how a condom could be washed, checked for holes, and RE-USED. I thought that was ACCURATE at the time and it wasn't until my coworker/college classmate saw me reading and pointed out the inaccuracy of that, that I got embarrased that I was reading something so faulty. EDIT: omg I found it... "The Act of Marriage" by Tim and Beverly LaHaye
I'm late, but I need to tell you how glad I am to meet another woman who hates to be called a lady! I wasn't raised fundie, but my dad loved the saying "nice young ladies don't do that sort of thing". It drove me out of my g*dd*mn*d mind! Eventually, I realized that he only said that when I was doing something fun or interesting and decided that I didn't want any part of being a nice young lady 😆 These days, my friends know better than to insult me like that. What fun is life if you can't pee in the shower? Although, I do really appreciate the meme "I don't spew profanity, I enunciate it clearly like a fucking lady."
“He spells respect R-E-S-P-E-C-T” the utter disrespect to the queen Aretha… Fun fact, the song Respect was originally a Ray Charles song about wanting a little goddamn respect from your woman when you get home because you’re a man and you pay the bills and you deserve it. The theme of the man being in charge and demanding the women in his life treat him as such was a pretty common topic of blues songs at the time (B.B. King’s “Paying the Cost to be the Boss” is another example) Aretha Franklin took that misogynistic ass song and turned it around, creating an anthem for women who demanded just as much respect as the men in their lives. The message was basically “do you really think you’re the only one who needs respect? Fuck off, I’m a woman and I deserve respect too.” The sheer irony of spelling out the word respect when this is the implication of the song is hilarious.
Great video! I thought I was one of the only ones who didn’t care for the author. So many people praise this guy and his “wonderful book.” I once watched a video where Emerson admitted that him and his wife go through the crazy cycle every 2 weeks. (Really? I can’t tell you how little my husband and I have ever gone on “the crazy cycle.” Maybe it’s because he’s an ass and his wife can’t take it???) Anyways, he went on to say a scenario where his wife asked him to stop putting wet towels on the bed. (Seems like a simple request). Instead of NOT PUTTING WET TOWELS ON THE BED, he decides to KEEP putting wet towels on the bed AND having his sons do the same until his wife stopped asking him to stop doing it. WHAT?!?! This is the guy people are taking advice from?!?! Are his actions loving? Is a wife asking her husband to not leave wet towels on the bed being DISRESPECTFUL??? I can’t even wrap my head around how people BELIEVE this crap he writes.
Lmao. That sounds like something I would have done to my parents when I was 12. His advice was really “pretend you’re an annoying kid and your wife is your mom”
Wow. Thank you so much for walking through this. I have not read this book personally, but I see now that some of my worst advisors obviously had. I left Christianity less than two years ago. I still have a number of books on my shelf that make me cringe. I don't want to give them to someone else, but tossing them in a trash can doesn't seem satisfying enough either...
I was raised trad cath and there is a LOT of overlap in the things you talk about on your channel. I’ve been out of that world for a long time but when I hear books like this and realize that this was what I was raised on it always stuns me. It’s so transparently awful and yet it was my whole life.
As a Christian woman, I agree with you about the purity culture and how many Christian books often give permission for abuse. I read many books before I married, and I told my pastor at the time, alot of this was crap as I saw it. He was not happy that I questioned his approval of Focus on the Family ideas. I had no intention of being a human mother, I do not have the emotional, mental strength or desire to. I knew this about myself, and since I had clinical depression, I did not wish to pass on to the next generation. Alcohol Fetal issues were also a factor via my birth mother. If I was to marry, no kids. I married a divorced man who had two children who lived with their mother. That was a whole new world of being the step-mother and respecting their Mother's place, but respect for that person ,although I did not always agree with how she acted, was key, I came to like her and the kids could not play us against each other, we three were a parental team. Sad to say, one has not gone a good way in terms of a partner, he sexually abused both girls, she did finally leave him, cut off contact with the family years ago, so I have no idea how the girls are and that hurts. The boy married a girl who helped him see, that not going to school all those years were hurting his chances of a sucessful life. He got the message , got his grade twelve, and can turn his hand to any occupation and success is his. He took training as a Chef and is a great cook, handyman, husband and father to their 2 kids. He once said to me, I do not know if I can be a good Dad? I said " yes you can, there are books to read, but treat a child with love and respect, have bounderies to protect them, but giving of your time to doing things with them is very good for them, you want your marriage to succeed, respect her, spend time with her, your relationship with her is the foundation of the family, that fails, the family fails, you grew up in that , you know the cost, your choice to be different. I believe in both of you to make a great marriage and a happy family. He just looked at me. They are both very involved with their kids and making time just for them special. They also have a circle of friends that support them . My marriage to his Dad may have ended, but the friendship we started with is still there , we both came to realize the marriage was a mistake, but the relationship wasn't. I learned a lot, and had I realized some things I would not have made the choice I did, I know myself much better now, at 65 than I did at 30. He is a good man, but not the right choice for a marriage partner. You live and learn. I always respected him, always will. I consider that not a failure but a gift he gave me of being my friend.
I was with my husband for 5 years before we moved back to his hometown and started attending his childhood church (an AoG church, which in my opinion is borderline cult - I was raised Presbyterian, so it was quite a shock), in which we read this book in small group. I was astounded in the change in my husband. He became cruel and abusive, when he had always been kind and considerate before. He got so possessive and controlling - even mad when I would have playdates with other moms from the church! And tried to tell me which of my family I could see and when I could see them. It was like he thought he suddenly owned me. He wasn't like that at all before we came back to this church. I ended up befriending another man from church (which in this crazy ass cult is a huge no no, but I'd been friends with guys my entire life??) and it opened my eyes to how fucking insane this place was and I quit going. Eventually the pastor of the church had a mental break and started telling everyone we weren't allowed to leave the church (CULT BELLS GOING OFF) and husband finally had an epiphany. Guess who's back to being kind and considerate after leaving that psycho ass place??
OMG, Elly. You are doing such an amazing job of articulating the very complicated dumpster fire that was also my childhood 😂 I was also gifted this book when engaged….we we told it was all we needed to know. We never read it lol. Luckily, we’ve always felt egalitarian about relationships ;). AKA…ALL PEOPLE deserve, and need, love and respect 😂
There is also a book called "His needs, her needs" by someone called Willard F. Harley Jr., which teaches exactly the same bullshit. Thanks for this video, and everything you do!
i have heard of that book, i will have to get that one. Love and Respect was very helpful, it showed my husband the deep need for both of us to show and receive love and respect at all time, it saved our marriage because he was never very good at showing me love or respect. there is a podcats also if anyone is interested. you can load it as an app. i should check out that book next, thanks.
I'm not sure how I found you, but I'm glad I did. I'm fascinated by fundie culture. You're super strong and resilient, and it's inspiring. Keep doing what you're doing, 😊
My parents were always hypocrites in this sphere. Their official statement was always that the husband is the head of the family, but I cannot think of a single time where my mom actually deferred to my dad's supposed headship. While I wouldn't call her a narcissist, as I don't think that's fair to her as she was a good - but often overwhelmed - mother, she's quite self-absorbed, and you can see when she and my dad come by my house and just step in the doorway to talk, Dad is always behind Mom, and he just lets her talk. It exasperates my husband to see this dynamic that I just took as normal growing up, and thinking about it now, despite their assertions to the contrary, my parents are basically the inverse of the supposed hierarchy and really highlight the absurdity of it. Bottom line, though, is watching them helped me to realize that people have different strengths and personalities, and while at a very high level there may be some truth to gender role stereotypes (I mean, it really can't be argued that overall, men are physically stronger than women, and so some roles make sense in that respect), on an individual level, people are going to thrive in the roles they're best in, so a naturally nurturing father who has to go to work every day when he'd rather be with his kids and a mother who is a naturally ambitious leader who has to be a SAHM obviously is not going to be a good dynamic for anyone. The fundie literature either ignores that people can have strengths not in keeping with their gender roles, or if they do acknowledge it, it's painted in a light of somehow being wrong or against God's plan to play to your strengths. It just does such a disservice to everyone involved.
Teachings like this plus me secretly being gay were probably the reason I FEARED getting married rather than daydreamed about it and it makes me so mad for my former self bc I didn't even know a world where I could be happy planning a wedding bc it terrified me so much instead. Plus it made me feel so left out bc no one ever understood (honestly I didn't even understand at the time) and would just try to convince me my feelings were wrong and I would change my mind🙄
Around 21 minutes when you said we are taught and accept that we are "less intelligent and less capable simply because I'm a woman." I would add, we wete also taught through the umbrella of protection and many sermons and books etc, that we are less connected to God and able to discern his will than men ! That is spiritual abuse to take away a woman's connection to the divine and say it must come through practically worshipping the husband, never calling out faults or mistakes and supporting unconditionally. ♥
My husband and I attended non fundamentalist baptist church for years and we’re taught so much of this kind of thing. We did what worked for us, though. We’ve had a successful marriage for 32 years because of mutual respect (I would never settle for less). I agree with your husband; love and respect are intertwined.
It's so horrifying and depressing to know that children are being raised to perpetuate this stuff. All gaslighting and victim blaming throughout. This was hard to hear about but thank you so much for sharing your experience, it's good to know you were able to escape that mindset, hopefully many more do too
Let me say also, the only time that "submission" should be involved on the part of anybody toward anybody else in a relationship, is in a fun and consensual BDSM context.
I lived this for 33 years it took that long to finally get divorced. I am also deconstructing from Christianity. I have overcome and am living my best life on my own
"Your quiet and gentle spirit will win the man's heart".... YIKES. That should never be the template expected of women. Men should support and celebrate whatever their partners true nature is (and vice versa!). I am quite feisty, energetic, and vocal... and my partner loves that about me :):)
I'm not a fundie - not even a christian - but my dad has had to deconstruct a lot of super patriarchal bullshit his dad passed onto him, and he told me one thing that really stuck with me : in the context of a hierarchical relationship, "respect" has two meanings : "treating someone with basic decency", and "treating someone with deference, as a superior". So when a person who has power over you talks about respecting each other, they can very often mean "treat me like a superior, and I'll treat you with basic decency".
When you were reading out the sections for COUPLE I was like, oh this isn’t too bad. Weird that it’s just for men. And then you read the sections for CHAIRS and I felt like I got hit over the head with one!
You have definitely seen the side of selfishness and abuse by men. There will be differences at times in a marriage and at times that means respecting the other partner even tho you disagree. But the husband and wife's input should both be highly valued. Love and respect for BOTH. NOT just one sided.
Oh dear. I feel for all of you who have had such devastating experiences in "fundie" culture. Please know that not all Christianity is like this. The denomination I belong to fully affirms and supports the LGBTQ+ community for one. And we also interpret the Bible much differently, knowing that it contains contradictions and was written in cultural settings which are not at all equivalent to our own. Power and control which are used to initiate and continue abuse of any kind is absolutely antithetical to the Christian message. You are right to point out the abusive, corrupt messages of publications such as these.
Thank you so much for this review. Fun fact: Sheila Wray Pinot grigio's review of love and respect was a major stepping stone on my deconstructing path to accepting myself as a pansexual agendered atheist.
They are just glorifying codependent relationships between emotionally immature people who need to be treated in "the exact right way" by their partner so they can avoid their specific childhood trauma. Hmmm... women need love and men need respect? It sounds like the women were taught to hate themselves in childhood and the men were spoiled. And these books are geared toward women because in the christian community they are the only ones working on themselves (because they are taught they are broken and worthless) while the men live in a narcissistic stupor of entitlement. The truth is that without emotional intimacy, these relationships are superficial nightmares.
Thanks for this video. I wonder if the women that need to hear it the most are too brainwashed to even listen to it. I found it to be so accurate about what really happens in a marriage that lives it out. Abuse will escalate until the women puts a stop to it any way she needs to.
My mom would always tell me "men only want 'one thing,' it's disgusting, and you're just gonna have to put up with that." So I also thought that having a sex drive as a [cis] girl in her teens was some kind of aberration. Even though I'd say my parents have a good marriage from what I can tell, this made me worry so much about getting married someday. I really didn't need that extra anxiety at 16!! Btw I am married to an amazing partner and I would never tell anyone that bullshit!
I am trying to think of how it would be possible to love someone without respecting them. And I’ve come up with nothing. Respect and love are part of each other.
Yeah, the whole gender role nonsense conservative Christianity demands helped me eventually leave Christianity and theism in general more than 12 years ago. I’m glad I discovered your page.
The book is BS and it repulses me. This kind of teaching was unhelpful and created an unhealthy marriage for me and my ex. It led me to like I had to appease my ex all the time. Appeasements are a sign of inequality.
You should break down Debbie Pearl books she has toxic ideas as well and even though I don't believe the same way anymore the ideas still stick with me and she had similar ideas as this man about sex and relationships
First of all I would like to say to all you ladies who are being abused by your husbands or significant others that it is NOT your fault. Never has been and never will be. We as human beings have choices. A man abuses a woman because he chooses to do so and not because of what the woman did or failed to do. Fathers please teach your sons about making the right choices and be there for them. Domestic violence is wrong all the way around and we need to do whatever it takes to stop it. The fundamental church seems to be doing the opposite and makes excuses for these men. Abusers need to be held accountable for their actions.
I'm a Christian woman. Was born again at almost 40 years old. I just want to say that I heard your story and I want to thank you and am grateful you are in a better place now. I respect your beliefs now although I am a Christian. I agree with a lot of what you say. This book condones abuse and that is never ok. God hates oppression/abuse. I wish you well Ellie. ❤
Hear so often in books like this how it is the wives responsibility to be a good wife in how to act but leaves off the following verses after that in how the husband should love and treat his wife like he wishes to be treated.
I stopped this video and watched one by the author of the book. It makes hetro marriage seem so difficult. My same sex marriage is so easy, and makes my life so much better and easier.
It depends on the marriage and the people involved in it. Many people last forever but it takes work no matter what your genders are. All relationships do. If you don’t think there are ever any issues, you need to check in with your partner more often.
I can hardly articulate how much pain this book caused me. When I was contemplating leaving my abusive husband, my mom gave me this book; I blamed myself for my own abuse tried so hard to respect him enough to make it stop, stayed for two more years and broke mentally because of it. FUCK THIS BOOK.
The book that broke me out of my fog was called “why does he do that” and it correctly labels abuse and puts the blame where it belongs.
A local church near the small town where I live literally had a bunch of members congregate in the hospital room of a woman whose husband beat her so badly that he broke ribs. They guilt-tripped her for wanting to divorce him and, more or less, said that she was the one who was sinning and that she would go to hell if she left her husband instead of forgiving him. It takes a special level of toxicity to gang up on and psychologically abuse someone who is lying in a hospital bed due to domestic violence.
Glad you escaped. Sorry about your abuse from husband and church. It's revolting.
I am so sorry you were stuck in such an awful place, but very glad you found "Why does he do that." I've read it cover to cover three times, and it helped me make sense of a lot of my dad's abuse and its effect on everyone else in the house. I will never not recommend it - I've passed my physical book around to others a few times, and I'm sure there are a bunch of legit free pdfs of the entire thing floating around.
I am glad you are ok now.
That's when I was given this book too! Haha like how is being submissive going to make him stop cheating on me again 🤔
My new favorite genre of content is women breaking down sexist logic using facts, context, and critical thinking. You seem like a wonderful and smart person, I'm happy you're no longer living under this subjugation. I'm positive that your voice has already changed at least one person's life!
I had a elderly widow neighbor tell me that she had told her husband the day after the wedding that if he hit her , that she’d just wait until he was asleep to hit him back with a frying pan ! One of those old fashioned heavy cast iron frying pans. They were married for 50 years and he never hit her. She missed him terribly. I’d noticed that widows who miss their husbands never had to put up with the abuse .
I love this so much. My marriage was really in trouble and our pastor at the time gave us this book to read. The church just bought a surplus of copies to hand out to young couples. It did help us..... Because we spent the time reading it together and realizing how absolutely ridiculous and awful it was. It helped us define what we needed to fix (all of the toxic bullshit found in this book) and helped us to really nail down exactly what type of marriage we wanted (not this toxic bullshit), while bonding over how laughable and terrible this book was lol. The Pastor followed up with us a few months later and we both said it helped so much we were deconstructing haha! That was 7 years ago and still going strong in our heathen ways
That's an awesome story!
Hail Satan
@@DJHastingsFeverPitch hail Satan!
I love it!! ❤️😉
Book was so bad it made you stop going to church that's a feat! Lmfaooo
They always tout this “quite and gentle nature”. Those of us with naturally loud and outgoing personalities were doomed from the start in this world. No wonder none of the good Christian boys ever wanted to court me! And thank goodness! Can’t imagine having to deconstruct while being legally tied to one of these idiots.
This makes me thankful for my raging ADHD 🤪
... Not to mention being perpetually knocked up with his idiot offspring😖
I started off being very shy but was forced to come out of my shell in secondary school so then became a chatterbox. But went back into my shell when I became an evangelical and fundamentalist Christian when given a list of things not to say and a list of subject that were taboo subjects. Never told what to say though. The less I said the better. Even when I complimented somebody that was twisted around to mean bitterness, envy, malice and resentment. It was constantly like being around a bear with a sore head when any move would aggravate that bear. That's what we mean when somebody is in such a bad mood or are so hungover they are like a bear with a sore head. When a pin dropped sounds like broken glass to them.
I eventually got myself onto assertiveness and public speaking classes. Taking acting classes would have probably helped as well. When you are an ambivert who can swing one way or the other depending on who you are with or a natural introvert who has been taught to communicate it's much easier to shut you up.
💯 understand your statement.
The "quiet and gentle nature" ideal pushed onto women is even quieter than peope I know outside of Christianity who are naturally that way. It gets to the point when you become mute as you aren't allowed to say anything even nice things. Even complimenting people gets turned around to mean an 'insult' and you were motivated by envy or malice. Asking somebody how their holiday was is turned around to mean being 'nosy'. You can't show an interest in other people other than to watch and listen and it's even worse if you talk about yourself, your interests or other people. Even if you sit there listening you can be damned for eavesdropping.
It's like going back to the old days of children being seen and not heard only enforcing it on women as well. I've never met people so thin skinned as fundamentalist Christians. Even popping off to the toilet is like a big insult to them.
The unquestioning obedience and respect of hierarchy is used to justify even appalling abuse throughout religious structures . You have an amazing gift in being able to articulate these issues .
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I had to read this book when I was engaged and it MESSED. ME. UP. For weeks I was not okay and contemplating not getting married. I was so lucky to have a fiance who insisted we change marriage counselors after that.
Gggrrrrr Was this a ‘Christian’ counselor bec all I have seen from them is a BIBLE thumper
@A. A. it's not biblical though. Sheila Gregory, has a lot of great stuff about this.
"he attempted to strangle my mother but he was not abusive" 😳
I love the “it was Eve who…” excuse. I remember reading some ancient Jewish writing that suggested the fall was actually ADAM’s fault. If you read Genesis, God told Adam not to eat the fruit of that one tree, and THEN he created Eve. Later, when the serpent tempts Eve and she talks about the commandment, she has it wrong-God never told Adam not to touch the tree, only not to eat the fruit, but somehow she believes she’s not even to touch it. We can assume Adam added that bit, hoping to protect her by keeping her from approaching the tree at all. The Jewish writing goes on to suggest that maybe the serpent pushed her into the tree, and when she didn’t die, she then doubted everything she’d been told, and decided to try the fruit. It’s ADAM’s fault she was so easily misled. Plus, again, Adam got the command straight from God, and he chose to eat anyway, and it wasn’t until HE ate that they suddenly became ashamed of their nakedness. So the fall was because of HIS disobedience, not Eve’s. Since this is a parable anyway, it might be silly to postulate at this level, but if these people are going to keep dragging out the whole “Eve caused the fall” argument, its’ worth asking them to reread the story with a new lens.
You make a good point. And honestly I started to realise something. We are the victims of this whole thing. Because of stupid Adam we all had to be born in sin AGAINST OUR WILL. Like we didn’t want to be born in sin, we didn’t get a say in what we’ll be like. And because of Adam we were now infected with the sin virus. Yes I’m calling it a virus and a deadly one because that’s how annoying it is 🙄and because of this stupid virus Jesus had to die for us and we still struggle with this fear of hell and constantly questioning our beliefs. If it weren’t for Adam we would be chilling with God BUT NOoOo Adam had to follow his stupid desires. And ik some Christians are gonna be like “oh but you would’ve done the same thing because we’re all sinners” complete BS because if I were in the garden of Eden I would have not known sin and also we all have different personalities God created us to be different from each other so how the heck would you know??
@@its_just_me6183 Another mind-bending thought: there is a huge difference between being religious, and having a relationship with God. Religion is man’s invention-we make all kinds of rules that go way beyond anything God told us. Think of it: when Jesus walked among us, who were his chief enemies? The Pharisees, and his main quarrel was that they added to the Law and hypocritically demanded that others follow rules they themselves couldn’t keep. Religionists. Could we conclude that religion is actually the enemy of having a relationship with God? That the obsession with rules and laws keeps us from drawing near to him? I’m not saying go out and do whatever you please. I’m saying that maybe the only way we can live lives that are pleasing to God is to simply rely on him, trust him, and focus on relationship with him-that HE will direct us, rather than the rules.
Also, my translation of the Bible I used in Sunday School (NIV) said that Adam was with her while the snake was tempting her. The second half of Gensis 3:6 NIV says, "She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."
So by that translation, Adam was there to hear the snake tempt Eve, and he did nothing to stop her. She bit first, but he was equally guilty.
But even if he wasn't there to see the snake, he was still a grown adult who was responsible for his actions. He knew that fruit was forbidden, but he decided to eat it anyway.
People who read that story and take away that "Eve caused Adam to sin" are projecting a LOT of messed up opinions about women and responsibility onto the story. But sadly, far too many people do exactly that.
EDIT: Also, ironically, the devout God-fearing Christians who blame Eve are questioning God's judgement. God didn't give Adam a special pass because "Eve started it". Both were kicked out of the garden and condemned to die. If it was all Eve's fault, was God unfair in punishing Adam too?
I just wrote a similar comment, about how the traditional, original and much more ancient Jewish interpretation is that Eve was chosen by the serpent not because she was less intelligent, savvy or more gullible than Adam, but rather the exact opposite! I can find my comment and post it below.
Here's my comment that I just posted:
As a former comparative religions student, I find it fascinating how the interpretation of genesis has evolved from the original: traditionally, in the original Jewish exegesis, Eve was deceived because she was MORE intelligent, strong-willed and savvy than Adam, who was more gullible and thus vulnerable to temptation. This ancient interpretation goes along the lines of: the serpent knew that it could convince Adam easily to taste the fruit, but that Adam would never be able to convince his wife or do the same. So, it chose Eve knowing that she would be a more difficult target to tempt, but that she would then be able to win over the more gullible Adam with her intelligence and words!
So the original interpretation is quite literally the exact opposite of the Christian version, which came along thousands of years after the text was written.
Anyhow, I find it fascinating (not to mention confusing and at times infuriating) that a text which was written to show that women are more innately intelligent and less gullible would later be taken to mean the exact opposite.
I love how you talk openly about feeling othered by being a woman with a high sex drive in the church- I had the exact same experience, I was experimenting with my body and with explicit material before the church gave its lecture to the people in confirmation classes about how that's wrong-- and that lecture was framed specifically as 'this one's pretty much just for the boys'. I felt like such a freak for being actively interested in sexuality as a teenage girl
The thing is that's not biblical at all. The only time sexual relations are mentioned both men and women are given the same instructions. That we are to give ourselves freely to our spouses. Men to their wives and wives to their husbands as we are one body. Excepting for times of fasting. This was because men don't always have the higher drive. It's ridiculous they frame it as a man's problem and not a women's.
As a wife with a higher drive then my husband it also hurts when it's all about men need sex, you begin to feel like theirs something wrong with you if your husband's not like that.
He spelled “respect” wrong. It should be spelled S-U-B-M-I-S-S-I-O-N, because that’s what he’s talking about!
Exactly. I'd hate a relationship like that. That would be awful. I like a woman with a mind of her own.
@@mikereseigh I’m sure these relationships are difficult for many men, and I’m sure many ignore this stupid type of advice, but it must be hard for decent men to hear such drivel and be expected to follow the example. Unfortunately, it also gives abusive men permission to be bullies to their wives, and to have plenty of back up in that abuse. In the end it leads to some sort of suffering for someone,and that is a fact.
Why can't the woman just submit directly to God? Considering that God is perfect, wouldnt he be the ideal leader?
Why are men so terrified of having their wives be their equals? Oh yeah, maybe it has something to do with their passive aggressive mothers who were seething with rage at having to be servants to their husbands.
I disagree. The right word is C-O-N-T-R-O-L. He is advocating for men to get absolute control of wife for absolutely no rhyme or reason.
@@jnl3564 Good idea. I'm single so I get to take away the middleman.
When you have a sitting US Congressman admit on the record that he has never seen a woman enjoy sex, another admit to paying a 17 year old to have sex and not resign, and another that thinks women need to take birth control every time they have sex, it's not weird to see this kind of nonsense about 'men's sexuality' and 'respect' from the pop-christian world. But something about having it on the pages of a national bestseller just drives the anger up a little bit more. Thanks for walking through this so we don't have to.
Who was the US congressmen you are referring to?
I tried a Google search on the first situation described but nothing seemed to show up …perhaps I searched incorrectly?
Matt Gaetz
That story that the author told about how his dad choked his mother but it was not really abuse really grinds my gears! Choking someone is attempted murder, period. I know that there are bills in some states that declare choking to be treated like any other form of attempted murder, but I don't know the status of any one of them - not even in my own state. If this man cannot see the abuse that he grew up with, he has no business writing a marriage manual - especially one that emphasizes the husband-leader/wife-submissive model. ~ Anastacia in Cleveland
I don't remember reading that in the book at all.
@@lindebeldunlap2253 he says that in his lectures/teachings. they can be found on youtube.
My stomach is turning as I'm watching this. Here, let me set you up to be abused, then tell you your husband is not abusing you, and also if he is, it's because you can't respect him. Oh and don't forget you can be sweet enough to manipulate your husband to stop abusing you. What the actual fuck?! -Dee
I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the part about the mom shaming her daughter for not having enough sex with the husband. Just so random and inappropriate
not to mention .... CRINGE WORTHY...
Did her son in law tattle? But I’m sure that’s what’s happened to Anna Duggar. You know she’s been blamed for everything that’s happened with the pig she married.
Right? My big mouth would've answered: "Why? Wanna help out? Dunno if he's into MILF but I'll ask."
As an asexual, that part made me cringe. That was the type of stuff my ex would pull-guilting me because I wouldn’t have sex with him enough. So glad I’m not with him anymore!
I remember reading and absorbing this book, thinking it was great. Cue several years later, I'm getting divorced. Although he initiated the divorce due to finding someone else, as I was healing from the trauma, I realized I had a lot of healing to work through from the marriage. And the biggest thing for me is that he didn't respect me as a person. Sure, I felt cared for but he used to say deeply disrespectful things. I feel so free to be myself now and I'm glad I'm out of the marriage. When I was pondering these things, I remembered this book and realized how messed up it is.
My mother in law AND my pastor gave me this book before I divorced my abusive husband (17 years of it) and left the church.
Yes also in my case married 16 years to an abusive, cheating alcoholic. His family blamed me for his behavior. My ex mother law Suggested I get psychotherapy. I did get therapy after the divorce for PTSD.
@@priscllamccain1423 I get it. Been there. So glad you’re OUT.
So glad you left them BOTH! @Jo L
My whole frustration with fundies saying men want respect more than love is that love doesn't exist without respect really.
They think it does exist without respect. See the Redeeming Love review.
It's really only from this book, it's permeated the Christian sphere. There's nothing biblical about that idea.
Someone recommended this to me and my sister when she got married for the 2nd time. We read it together and laughed until we cried. We still joke about "stepping on your love hose". After my sisters wedding, we found giant pink and blue plastic glasses and decorated their house with them. Very thankful that me entire family escaped the life that this shitty book idolizes.
The only thing in there that I think he got right is that women do feel loved when their partner listens to them. Not just babbling about making tater tot casserole, but about how she feels, when she’s hurt or sad or angry, happy, curious, or joyful, excited to learn.
I'm a Christian dude, and this way of thinking about women really ticks me off. My wife and I are abundantly happy together BECAUSE we treat each other as equals, and both love and respect each other. I would argue that if your love your partner the way Jesus loves, they will get all the respect they need. Men who don't think their partners don't desire respect are terrible people; men who don't think they crave love are damaging themselves.
You clearly haven’t read the book. The main premise of the book is that men and women are equals. But the majority of men interpret conflict in marriage as a lack of respect and the majority of women interpret conflict as a lack of love. This guy goes on a strawman tirade and clearly, he didn’t read the book.
Bravo-
@@theretroreseller2434 That's not a full premise of the book. It says that men and women are equal and interpret marital conflict in different ways as you stated, but that is because they have different ways of interpreting the meaning of how each other reacts in certain scenarios because men and women see and hear differently, it comes down to communication.
This book was the BIBLE for my dad. It really messed my mum and I up
I had no idea until recently that Focus on the Family was even fundamentalist. I grew up with it, and just thought it was mainstream Christian. In fact my Aunt worked for FOTF as an editor for years and I was SO proud of it!
Same! We had so many of the adventures in Odyssey on tape and we would listen to them on long car rides... I never got exposed to their adult ministries in the same way and did not realize how deeply sinister the organization is.
Same no idea how messed up they were until well into adulthood, they were also the only sex-ed that I got at home. Luckily I had friends outside the church that were a better info source for that type of thing.
Same omg. I can say that I went to a fundamentalist church (Plymouth Brethren denomination) for most of my life and switched to an Alliance church in high school. So the Focus on the Family messages fit right with the first church. The second church, though, had -gasp- female pastors who preached! It's strange that basic equality felt so radical at the time after coming from a church that preached that women must be silent.
Oh gosh, they are super anti-lgbtq, anti-feminist, anti-divorce, & Dr. Dobson himself has advocated for severe corporal punishment for both children & pets! Like he has said he beats his dog with a leather belt, & thinks that’s okay 🤬
That is INSANE, that organization is so bat crazy!! How could anyone grow up and not realize how bonkers it is? I feel so sorry for all of you raised in these cults!
My husband I were given TWO copies of this book when we got married. Even back then we thought it was weird. Other than sitting on a shelf for a few years, it played no role in building our marriage. Many years into our marriage I took it off the shelf and began reading it. That book has absolutely no understanding of what a real marriage is. It made me sad that this was the best “advice” that our church could come up with for two young people getting married. It was one of the things that made me wonder if anyone in these churches actually read these weird books that they pass out like Halloween candy. I threw both books away. My husband and I have been married for 17 year. We are partners and allies building our life together. We have no need for such a simple minded book.
You nailed that one. When people go on about a man being respected, it isn't actually about respect. It is about control. I am a husband and a father. My wife and kids absolutely respect me. We can talk things over and a lot of times, I don't get my way or they decided on a different course of action. I don't see that I was being disrespected as my view was taken into consideration. They simply decided another course was best for them at that moment. Men who see challenges as disrespect are actually upset because it is a loss of control. But, controlling every little aspect of the lives of your spouse or children is disrespecting them.
I'm 70+ and see things from a different perspective. Your videos are excellent. You express yourself clearly and thoughtfully. I'm learning things from you I need to learn. I am a Christian, and that makes me MORE interested in evil in the church being exposed. Thanks!
As a boy bored in church I used to find and read the naughty bits in the Bible. In those days before the Internet that was my only possibility of accessing such material.
Lol I remember looking up words like "sex" in the dictionary 🤣
🤣🤣 all the over controlled kids in the topical guide looking up the naughty bits..
😂😂😂
Ahahah. Don't they all do that?
There have always been public libraries so I went there instead.
That's the book my pastor recommended in our pre-marriage counseling! I was fortunate that my husband was not raised evangelical and he thought all this gender stuff was gross and wrong from the beginning. He was raised by a strong single mother to believe in full equality. I spent 10 years trying to "submit" to a man who refused to "lead" 😂
Around 18 min I started thinking, how did I read this book multiple times and not realize how bad this is??? Last time I read it was when I was going through some trouble in my marriage and thought I could fix it because my husbands problems were somehow my fault....guess what, therapy was the right answer instead XP
their are 2 people in a marriage and marital problems are NEVER all one members faults. the book does say that. BUT you can work on your marriage without the other on bord and win your spouse's hearts over.
It's hard for me to understand how this is even legal.
Me too, I am from Australia and although there are some ultra-religious people here, majority of Australians would laugh in the face of anybody who tried to make them read that book.
The church's exempt status allows them to push their agendas without repurcussions.
It seems like these guys pay lip service to the part that says men should love their wives, but they don't really practice it. If you love someone you have empathy for them, and you want the best for them. You don't want to be a controlling tyrant.
There's no hate like Christian love. The more controlling fundamentalist Christians don't have friends; they have projects instead and once you have worked on a project and it succeeds or fails you get bored and want to move onto another one. The more submissive fundamentalist Christians don't have friends; they have thought crime wardens who control them. Fundamentalist Christianity thrives on bully and victim types in every church but the victims are now so fed up they have left those churches because they can only take so much. I've heard that the bullying is much worse since I left 20 years ago when it was much more insiduous and covert.
Did you ever read the book “The Total Woman?” Someone in my mom’s Bible study gave her that book. I really think that was the start of how fundamentalism messed with her head and reinforced already strong feelings of inadequacy. Seems like pretty much all “marriage manuals” in fundie culture hang on the same basic threads-the woman must unquestioningly submit to her husband-even if he’s a drunk bum-because theoretically giving him that “respect” will help him straighten up (so it’s her fault if he continues to drink, can’t hold a job, and even abuses her and the kids, because she’s not submitting properly). Also, sex is not up for negotiation. If he wants it she should submit, or he’ll go elsewhere (making her responsible for his fidelity). The Total Woman was written by a woman, but it doesn’t matter. If it isn’t a male author mansplaining women to women, it’s a stepford wife mansplaining women to women.
Thank you so much for doing what you are doing. I followed that harmful thinking and got in an abusive marriage, so did my sister and my aunt. I'm divorced and not a Christian anymore and I can see how harmful Christianity is to families.
So abusive and even for the little boys. Christianity warps their minds so grow up they think they gain love and respect by being in control over women.When this doesn't happen it drives them to get try to get even more control over women, which does the opposite and they stop loving him and respecting him. It's such a vicious cycle of abuse that's handed down from generation to generation. Until someone finally decides it's wrong and breaks the stupid cycle.
Abuse is sin. It's not Christianity's fault.
True Christianity teaches people they are responsible for their OWN actions and they can't blame others for the choices they make, man or woman.
Wow, how much more expansive and holistic your life seems to be now that you've broken down many of the barriers fundamentalism tosses up. It must be so liberating to throw all those rules and such out and just live and experience the fullness of life. I wasn't raised in this kind of environment, my mom was pretty progressive for the social norms of the 80's and 90's, so I was always encouraged to be around all sorts of different people. It's something I'm always so, so glad she did because as an adult I can let people get on with their lives without constantly worrying about where they go after they die. As an atheist I think this life is all we get, and we should make the most of our time because I don't think there's anything after this. A scary thought, for sure, but for me I'd rather face what I consider to be the reality of the situation rather than running around wasting my time trying to "save" everybody. Our differences are what makes us special, and I'm a sucker for non-conformity and the underdog. Everyone should wave their "Freak Flag" high in my book!
I have the Islamic version of this book. It’s called “20 Pieces of Advice to My Sister Before her Marriage” by Basra Bin Ali Al Utaybee.
It’s in English and currently available on Amazon.
It’s pretty much Salafi Islamic purity culture with advice very similar to this book. No I couldn’t finish it.
Fun fact: this book helped pull me out of Salafi Islam.
My husband read this when we moved in with our roommate, roommate's parents felt it was something we needed. We were glad to get that book out of the house. Roommate is pretty grossed out by the book too.
Elly, your videos are fantastic. After my de-conversion, they are really helpful and remind me why I’m happily free from religion now.
I grew up in a form of Christianity that is so so different from how you grew up. It sounds like the antithesis of it, actually. It was Egalitarian Episcopalian, Progressive, LGBTQ affirming, embraced women in the faith (my minister as a teenager was a woman). I grew up in a church/with a faith far across the spectrum as you can’t get than you did. My mother actually threw away a copy of the “Strong Willed Child” by Dr. Dobson. That was a big deal as well, books were a BIG DEAL in our home-they normally weren’t treated like that. I’m so sorry you were put through all…*this.* Especially in the name of Christ. It makes my stomach turn. I 100% respect you have a different path and am so glad you have found (and ate still finding) healing on that path.
Also, I must not have been wearing my reading glasses when I made that comment! Sorry for typos!’🤦🏼♀️
That.Book. Advocating child abuse. My dad had a copy, and I read through it as a preteen or young teenager in various spurts. It’s truly disgusting. Thankfully, love has won out in our family, and my memories of my dad are much more pleasant than most of my mom(who was also emotionally neglectful and unavailable). I lost the opportunity to truly confront my mom about what went wrong during my childhood and adolescence as she died 11 years ago when I was 20 of a rare cancer. But I don’t know if she would ever have been ready for that conversation, and I would not have grown as a person in the way I have without escaping from her ‘grasp’. I have a genetic disorder called Turner Syndrome which has left me very short and small (4’8 and under 90 pounds), and my mom did not treat me in an appropriate way most of my life, let alone being emotianally unavailable and physically abusive until I was 11. That last hit when I was 11 was the final straw and I knew I could never trust her, not with anything important to me, again. I probably actually wouldn’t have found out about my heart condition, my genetic condition, nor received treatment for my Anorexia had she still been alive because I lived to keep the peace and not upset her…as a teenager, my sister told my parents how bad things were with my depression. Said we really needed family counselling. It went nowhere at all. Was never discussed nor acted upon, and I was already in counselling that would have easily extended into family work. I still struggle with the guilty feelings that my life is easier and in many ways better without my mom in it, and that I have grown so much since then…I am also from a very progressive friendly congregation that welcomes everyone, I’ve had a female minister, and the basic phrase we live by is ‘love wins and God is love’.
I wasn’t raised fundamentalist either . I don’t know how y’all put up with it.
The thing is, it is the case that hierarchical, static morality, LGBTQ rejecting, and woman submitting, is all material that is directly from the Bible. To reject these things is largely due to the influence of sources outside the Bible. To me this brings up the question of, if every time you want to critically examine your beliefs and this analysis leads you to embrace more aspects of modern culture and reject aspects of the Bible... maybe the Bible itself is the problem not our interpretation
^Well, maybe if you only use shallow interpretations. There’s a reason Bible scholars and actual academics who study those texts in their original languages and historical contexts don’t say those things. But even if you find sexist things in the Bible, so what? It’s called Christianity, not Bibleism. You don’t have to be a Christian of course, but if you want to be one, there’s no rule that says you have to worship the Bible.
Made me glad I never read that book. Some people seem to act like this book won them a marriage, which looking back is ridiculous as marriage is not a prize or contest. But sounds like a very sexist book and like its trying to be a one fits all but thats just not possible. And there is no excuse for abuse!
Hey, the logarithm gave me your series. So I gave it a watch.
I have to tell you Elly, from my perspective as a mainline Protestant and man, it feels like you should really be proud of your journey. This video is an example of this. Your criticism of the book is spot on, right on the money. The self-reflection and ability to see how abusive and harmful these sorts of messages are really come through. Just thought I'd tell you, you come across as very intelligent and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing.
That book was used by a pastor to keep me in an abusive marriage. So glad I left that book, that church, and that marriage behind.
I am so glad you are sharing this. I had a Pastor give my husband and I this whole course when we were having problems and it really angered me. I am a social worker now and separated from my husband for a while, still trying to wrestle out what I believe. Your channel is very interesting.
As I was listening to this I thought of how the channel Savy Writes Books would have a field day coming up alternative titles. She would be all Love and Douche Baggery Guides to Marriage and a few others. Also it seems most of these books can be summed up feel crappy about yourself and become a religious Stepford Wife.
From Dr. Ramani Durvasula, the ingredients of a happy relationship are love, reciprocity, mutuality, kindness, compassion, growth and empathy.
I literally went through this book, and a workbook, and a class based on it while engaged. I did this on my own without my partner because if I as a woman just learned it well enough our marriage would be great. Cut to divorce 4 years after that 😂
I can't for the life of me recall the title of the book my mom had me read on sex advice within marriage, but I do recall that it was an old edition and near the end it explained how a condom could be washed, checked for holes, and RE-USED. I thought that was ACCURATE at the time and it wasn't until my coworker/college classmate saw me reading and pointed out the inaccuracy of that, that I got embarrased that I was reading something so faulty.
EDIT: omg I found it... "The Act of Marriage" by Tim and Beverly LaHaye
The woman, therefore, becomes a child in this kind of marriage. She is not an equal. She doesn’t have a voice. This is abuse.
I'm late, but I need to tell you how glad I am to meet another woman who hates to be called a lady! I wasn't raised fundie, but my dad loved the saying "nice young ladies don't do that sort of thing". It drove me out of my g*dd*mn*d mind!
Eventually, I realized that he only said that when I was doing something fun or interesting and decided that I didn't want any part of being a nice young lady 😆
These days, my friends know better than to insult me like that. What fun is life if you can't pee in the shower?
Although, I do really appreciate the meme "I don't spew profanity, I enunciate it clearly like a fucking lady."
yay! i binged all your other videos and couldn’t wait until you posted next. your content is amazing. keep it up!
“He spells respect R-E-S-P-E-C-T” the utter disrespect to the queen Aretha…
Fun fact, the song Respect was originally a Ray Charles song about wanting a little goddamn respect from your woman when you get home because you’re a man and you pay the bills and you deserve it. The theme of the man being in charge and demanding the women in his life treat him as such was a pretty common topic of blues songs at the time (B.B. King’s “Paying the Cost to be the Boss” is another example)
Aretha Franklin took that misogynistic ass song and turned it around, creating an anthem for women who demanded just as much respect as the men in their lives. The message was basically “do you really think you’re the only one who needs respect? Fuck off, I’m a woman and I deserve respect too.” The sheer irony of spelling out the word respect when this is the implication of the song is hilarious.
thanks for sharing! it's such a meaningful song by Aretha Franklin :)
Great video! I thought I was one of the only ones who didn’t care for the author. So many people praise this guy and his “wonderful book.” I once watched a video where Emerson admitted that him and his wife go through the crazy cycle every 2 weeks. (Really? I can’t tell you how little my husband and I have ever gone on “the crazy cycle.” Maybe it’s because he’s an ass and his wife can’t take it???) Anyways, he went on to say a scenario where his wife asked him to stop putting wet towels on the bed. (Seems like a simple request). Instead of NOT PUTTING WET TOWELS ON THE BED, he decides to KEEP putting wet towels on the bed AND having his sons do the same until his wife stopped asking him to stop doing it. WHAT?!?! This is the guy people are taking advice from?!?! Are his actions loving? Is a wife asking her husband to not leave wet towels on the bed being DISRESPECTFUL??? I can’t even wrap my head around how people BELIEVE this crap he writes.
Lmao. That sounds like something I would have done to my parents when I was 12. His advice was really “pretend you’re an annoying kid and your wife is your mom”
Wow. Thank you so much for walking through this. I have not read this book personally, but I see now that some of my worst advisors obviously had. I left Christianity less than two years ago. I still have a number of books on my shelf that make me cringe. I don't want to give them to someone else, but tossing them in a trash can doesn't seem satisfying enough either...
....bonfire?! :D I'm apparently a few days into being an Athiest. Sorry about all that you went through.
Maybe use the pages for an art n crafts thingie, it's a good way to recycle that bit of your past Into something positive
I was raised trad cath and there is a LOT of overlap in the things you talk about on your channel. I’ve been out of that world for a long time but when I hear books like this and realize that this was what I was raised on it always stuns me. It’s so transparently awful and yet it was my whole life.
As a Christian woman, I agree with you about the purity culture and how many Christian books often give permission for abuse. I read many books before I married, and I told my pastor at the time, alot of this was crap as I saw it. He was not happy that I questioned his approval of Focus on the Family ideas. I had no intention of being a human mother, I do not have the emotional, mental strength or desire to. I knew this about myself, and since I had clinical depression, I did not wish to pass on to the next generation. Alcohol Fetal issues were also a factor via my birth mother. If I was to marry, no kids. I married a divorced man who had two children who lived with their mother. That was a whole new world of being the step-mother and respecting their Mother's place, but respect for that person ,although I did not always agree with how she acted, was key, I came to like her and the kids could not play us against each other, we three were a parental team. Sad to say, one has not gone a good way in terms of a partner, he sexually abused both girls, she did finally leave him, cut off contact with the family years ago, so I have no idea how the girls are and that hurts. The boy married a girl who helped him see, that not going to school all those years were hurting his chances of a sucessful life. He got the message , got his grade twelve, and can turn his hand to any occupation and success is his. He took training as a Chef and is a great cook, handyman, husband and father to their 2 kids. He once said to me, I do not know if I can be a good Dad? I said " yes you can, there are books to read, but treat a child with love and respect, have bounderies to protect them, but giving of your time to doing things with them is very good for them, you want your marriage to succeed, respect her, spend time with her, your relationship with her is the foundation of the family, that fails, the family fails, you grew up in that , you know the cost, your choice to be different. I believe in both of you to make a great marriage and a happy family. He just looked at me. They are both very involved with their kids and making time just for them special. They also have a circle of friends that support them . My marriage to his Dad may have ended, but the friendship we started with is still there , we both came to realize the marriage was a mistake, but the relationship wasn't. I learned a lot, and had I realized some things I would not have made the choice I did, I know myself much better now, at 65 than I did at 30. He is a good man, but not the right choice for a marriage partner. You live and learn. I always respected him, always will. I consider that not a failure but a gift he gave me of being my friend.
I was with my husband for 5 years before we moved back to his hometown and started attending his childhood church (an AoG church, which in my opinion is borderline cult - I was raised Presbyterian, so it was quite a shock), in which we read this book in small group. I was astounded in the change in my husband. He became cruel and abusive, when he had always been kind and considerate before. He got so possessive and controlling - even mad when I would have playdates with other moms from the church! And tried to tell me which of my family I could see and when I could see them. It was like he thought he suddenly owned me. He wasn't like that at all before we came back to this church. I ended up befriending another man from church (which in this crazy ass cult is a huge no no, but I'd been friends with guys my entire life??) and it opened my eyes to how fucking insane this place was and I quit going. Eventually the pastor of the church had a mental break and started telling everyone we weren't allowed to leave the church (CULT BELLS GOING OFF) and husband finally had an epiphany. Guess who's back to being kind and considerate after leaving that psycho ass place??
Wow!! That's quite a story. Glad things are better now for both of you.
I was doing a deep dive into that jackass Dobson. I’m so happy it lead me to you and to fundie fridays!!! You have great content.
After watching this video, it is a wonder, that women today still want to get married!
It's a wonder women still want to marry men.
"We're as different as pink and blue" BARF
I used to read that book, but once I found out I was in an abusive marriage I threw that book in the garbage. That is where it belongs. 😡
He forgets to instruct the husband on how to love his wife as Christ love the church.
OMG, Elly. You are doing such an amazing job of articulating the very complicated dumpster fire that was also my childhood 😂 I was also gifted this book when engaged….we we told it was all we needed to know. We never read it lol. Luckily, we’ve always felt egalitarian about relationships ;). AKA…ALL PEOPLE deserve, and need, love and respect 😂
(By all people, I mean all people, regardless of gender. This was not a comment meant to excuse or enable abusers ;) )
There is also a book called "His needs, her needs" by someone called Willard F. Harley Jr., which teaches exactly the same bullshit. Thanks for this video, and everything you do!
i have heard of that book, i will have to get that one. Love and Respect was very helpful, it showed my husband the deep need for both of us to show and receive love and respect at all time, it saved our marriage because he was never very good at showing me love or respect. there is a podcats also if anyone is interested. you can load it as an app. i should check out that book next, thanks.
Yes! My father had both and they fed into one another in a really toxic way
I'm not sure how I found you, but I'm glad I did. I'm fascinated by fundie culture. You're super strong and resilient, and it's inspiring. Keep doing what you're doing, 😊
My parents were always hypocrites in this sphere. Their official statement was always that the husband is the head of the family, but I cannot think of a single time where my mom actually deferred to my dad's supposed headship. While I wouldn't call her a narcissist, as I don't think that's fair to her as she was a good - but often overwhelmed - mother, she's quite self-absorbed, and you can see when she and my dad come by my house and just step in the doorway to talk, Dad is always behind Mom, and he just lets her talk. It exasperates my husband to see this dynamic that I just took as normal growing up, and thinking about it now, despite their assertions to the contrary, my parents are basically the inverse of the supposed hierarchy and really highlight the absurdity of it. Bottom line, though, is watching them helped me to realize that people have different strengths and personalities, and while at a very high level there may be some truth to gender role stereotypes (I mean, it really can't be argued that overall, men are physically stronger than women, and so some roles make sense in that respect), on an individual level, people are going to thrive in the roles they're best in, so a naturally nurturing father who has to go to work every day when he'd rather be with his kids and a mother who is a naturally ambitious leader who has to be a SAHM obviously is not going to be a good dynamic for anyone. The fundie literature either ignores that people can have strengths not in keeping with their gender roles, or if they do acknowledge it, it's painted in a light of somehow being wrong or against God's plan to play to your strengths. It just does such a disservice to everyone involved.
Teachings like this plus me secretly being gay were probably the reason I FEARED getting married rather than daydreamed about it and it makes me so mad for my former self bc I didn't even know a world where I could be happy planning a wedding bc it terrified me so much instead. Plus it made me feel so left out bc no one ever understood (honestly I didn't even understand at the time) and would just try to convince me my feelings were wrong and I would change my mind🙄
Around 21 minutes when you said we are taught and accept that we are "less intelligent and less capable simply because I'm a woman." I would add, we wete also taught through the umbrella of protection and many sermons and books etc, that we are less connected to God and able to discern his will than men ! That is spiritual abuse to take away a woman's connection to the divine and say it must come through practically worshipping the husband, never calling out faults or mistakes and supporting unconditionally. ♥
All I hear when you read what he says about men is “WE HAVE FRAGILE EGOS, OKAY?”
Ohhh boy, I grew up with a whole lot of FOTF too. Deconstruction is a lot. Thank you for sharing your process this way.
My husband and I attended non fundamentalist baptist church for years and we’re taught so much of this kind of thing. We did what worked for us, though. We’ve had a successful marriage for 32 years because of mutual respect (I would never settle for less). I agree with your husband; love and respect are intertwined.
I love how he thinks a single study proves ANYTHING
Wow, how surprising that a man would see nothing wrong with a worldview that gives authority to the man /sarcasm
It's so horrifying and depressing to know that children are being raised to perpetuate this stuff. All gaslighting and victim blaming throughout. This was hard to hear about but thank you so much for sharing your experience, it's good to know you were able to escape that mindset, hopefully many more do too
My husband and I were assigned this book during marriage counseling. Neither of us could stand reading it.
Let me say also, the only time that "submission" should be involved on the part of anybody toward anybody else in a relationship, is in a fun and consensual BDSM context.
My parents had this book. No wonder they got divorced
that prayer for the wife wasn't a prayer, it was mental instruction. that's not prayer....
I lived this for 33 years it took that long to finally get divorced. I am also deconstructing from Christianity. I have overcome and am living my best life on my own
Thank you so much for doing these book reviews.
"Your quiet and gentle spirit will win the man's heart".... YIKES. That should never be the template expected of women. Men should support and celebrate whatever their partners true nature is (and vice versa!). I am quite feisty, energetic, and vocal... and my partner loves that about me :):)
I'm not a fundie - not even a christian - but my dad has had to deconstruct a lot of super patriarchal bullshit his dad passed onto him, and he told me one thing that really stuck with me : in the context of a hierarchical relationship, "respect" has two meanings : "treating someone with basic decency", and "treating someone with deference, as a superior". So when a person who has power over you talks about respecting each other, they can very often mean "treat me like a superior, and I'll treat you with basic decency".
"Fuck Purity Culture" was one of the wisest things I have heard said in a while!
When you were reading out the sections for COUPLE I was like, oh this isn’t too bad. Weird that it’s just for men. And then you read the sections for CHAIRS and I felt like I got hit over the head with one!
I remember our adult sunday school class going through that book. My wife and I thought it was idiotic.
You have definitely seen the side of selfishness and abuse by men. There will be differences at times in a marriage and at times that means respecting the other partner even tho you disagree. But the husband and wife's input should both be highly valued. Love and respect for BOTH. NOT just one sided.
Oh dear. I feel for all of you who have had such devastating experiences in "fundie" culture. Please know that not all Christianity is like this. The denomination I belong to fully affirms and supports the LGBTQ+ community for one. And we also interpret the Bible much differently, knowing that it contains contradictions and was written in cultural settings which are not at all equivalent to our own. Power and control which are used to initiate and continue abuse of any kind is absolutely antithetical to the Christian message. You are right to point out the abusive, corrupt messages of publications such as these.
Thank you so much for this review. Fun fact: Sheila Wray Pinot grigio's review of love and respect was a major stepping stone on my deconstructing path to accepting myself as a pansexual agendered atheist.
They are just glorifying codependent relationships between emotionally immature people who need to be treated in "the exact right way" by their partner so they can avoid their specific childhood trauma. Hmmm... women need love and men need respect? It sounds like the women were taught to hate themselves in childhood and the men were spoiled.
And these books are geared toward women because in the christian community they are the only ones working on themselves (because they are taught they are broken and worthless) while the men live in a narcissistic stupor of entitlement. The truth is that without emotional intimacy, these relationships are superficial nightmares.
Thanks for this video. I wonder if the women that need to hear it the most are too brainwashed to even listen to it. I found it to be so accurate about what really happens in a marriage that lives it out. Abuse will escalate until the women puts a stop to it any way she needs to.
My mom would always tell me "men only want 'one thing,' it's disgusting, and you're just gonna have to put up with that." So I also thought that having a sex drive as a [cis] girl in her teens was some kind of aberration. Even though I'd say my parents have a good marriage from what I can tell, this made me worry so much about getting married someday. I really didn't need that extra anxiety at 16!!
Btw I am married to an amazing partner and I would never tell anyone that bullshit!
I am trying to think of how it would be possible to love someone without respecting them. And I’ve come up with nothing. Respect and love are part of each other.
Yeah, the whole gender role nonsense conservative Christianity demands helped me eventually leave Christianity and theism in general more than 12 years ago.
I’m glad I discovered your page.
The book is BS and it repulses me. This kind of teaching was unhelpful and created an unhealthy marriage for me and my ex. It led me to like I had to appease my ex all the time. Appeasements are a sign of inequality.
Okay, I subscribed for the first line alone - that was amazing!
You’re hilarious and brilliant. Thanks for making these videos; you rock!
You should break down Debbie Pearl books she has toxic ideas as well and even though I don't believe the same way anymore the ideas still stick with me and she had similar ideas as this man about sex and relationships
First of all I would like to say to all you ladies who are being abused by your husbands or significant others that it is NOT your fault. Never has been and never will be. We as human beings have choices. A man abuses a woman because he chooses to do so and not because of what the woman did or failed to do. Fathers please teach your sons about making the right choices and be there for them. Domestic violence is wrong all the way around and we need to do whatever it takes to stop it. The fundamental church seems to be doing the opposite and makes excuses for these men. Abusers need to be held accountable for their actions.
Me being a man who craves feeling loved so much:
"That is BULLSHIT XDD"
I'm a Christian woman. Was born again at almost 40 years old. I just want to say that I heard your story and I want to thank you and am grateful you are in a better place now. I respect your beliefs now although I am a Christian. I agree with a lot of what you say. This book condones abuse and that is never ok. God hates oppression/abuse. I wish you well Ellie. ❤
Hear so often in books like this how it is the wives responsibility to be a good wife in how to act but leaves off the following verses after that in how the husband should love and treat his wife like he wishes to be treated.
I stopped this video and watched one by the author of the book. It makes hetro marriage seem so difficult. My same sex marriage is so easy, and makes my life so much better and easier.
It depends on the marriage and the people involved in it. Many people last forever but it takes work no matter what your genders are. All relationships do. If you don’t think there are ever any issues, you need to check in with your partner more often.