3 Exercise Scientists Share Their Ultimate Science-based Back Workout.
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- @WolfCoaching @Dr__Pak stop by to show us how to use lengthened partials for a back workout!
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0:00 Introducing Mike's bodyguards
2:09 Prime Row
7:18 Pullover
11:40 Lateral raise
15:34 Curls - Спорт
Thank you for having me, guys! Happy to answer any questions in response to this comment.
I clicked on this video because of you!
What’s on your shirt?
Do all muscle groups benefit from lengthened-biased reps? I've heard other UA-camrs discuss this on a muscle group-by-muscle group basis as if some don't benefit from stretch-mediated hypertrophy at all.
Full rom for sports still considered superior? I.e. if I’m more concerned about strength and power than hypertrophy, is there any advantage to lengthened partials?
Some exercise scientists believe pullovers don't train the lats, because of bad leverage in the lengthened position. Do you think this holds any water? If I remember correctly they believe the lower pecs take over in this position due to better leverage. Also do pullovers train rear delts in the lengthened position as well or not at all?
Thanks for having us real Doctor Mike
Direct all questions to Milo pls cmon this ain't a reddit AMA
jk
Did Mike give you a ride in his lambo?
Thanks for coming on! Also, you left 2 used condoms here. Just letting you know! - Dr. Mike
If lambo is the nickname for his p**is, then yes@@whitefang9758
Who is gonna use that intro to help him edge this month? Hope its not just me
Already did
Finish!
2 days tops. I get bored easily. I'll throw it into to pegging/Futura/Gaping rotation tho
Did so for sure.
edgemaxxing
Never has Dr. Mike looked so short in an intro 😂
00:06 Partial ranges of motion can be effective for hypertrophy.
02:17 Emphasizing the lengthen position maximizes muscle growth during back workouts
04:17 Emphasize the length position in back workout.
06:40 Focusing on the principles of training to failure and competition for intensity
09:00 Using partials for hypertrophy in back workout.
11:27 Integrated partials are important for emphasizing the stretch position.
13:42 Understanding the reliability of partials and range of motion in machine workouts
16:17 Double DDO curl emphasizes lengthened bias exercise.
18:35 Focus on rep quality and Ecentric control
20:54 Scientific back workout explained
Thanks for outlining key points
"Is that all the bald people you look up to?" 😂 Can't comprehend how dr. Mike is capable of coming up with stuff like this on the fly
at 18:49
if Dr Mike never got into lifting, he'd be a kickass comedian. Dude is so fucking funny.
Damn, every time I turn on these videos I learn something new. I've never done that second move and haven't been doing my lat pull downs so far from the bar. Tried it. Works amazing. Feeling it more. Thank you, doctors the educational upgrade.
Full ROM has gotten me some amazing gains and focusing on the eccentric part of the movement I love this channel it has helped me and helped me train my clients better
This is really fascinating and I"m curious to see how the conversation and advice develops as the research continues to come in. But as a non-professional lifter, it feels way more consistent and convenient to just do full ROM reps/sets. Feels like the trade-offs of spending all the time and energy adjusting all the exercises with a variety of rep-types mixed in, and potentially a different way to track progress per exercise, for what seems like a small increase in potential hypertrophy isn't worth it. I'd do it if I was actually in the gym with these guys and they could coach and monitor me every step of the way, but in my garage gym!? So much to try and keep track of as a non-expert.
Love that perspective, I think you nailed it.
I agree. I do partials every now and then to change it up. I've also noticed that sometimes full ROM is necessary for certain exercises like triceps.
@@michaelanthony4750 There's nothing wrong with this. But to be clear, I'm not even disagreeing with the science. These guys know way more than me. I'm simply stating that full ROM training with proper technique is easier for me, as a person who doesn't train for a living, to track and progress with.
@@supersonicprime Yeah I agree with you. I pretty much only do full ROM.
I agree with this mostly, with the option to occasionally sprinkle in a few lengthened partials at the end of a set. So full ROM for 8-10 reps and then squeeze out 2-3 partials, as an example. Easier to do in a commercial gym with machines but you could make it work with some creativity in a garage.
The integrated partials is an interesting idea. It's similar to John Meadow's 1.5 reps.
I just started a new meso yesterday, so I'll give these a shot 👍
it's funny that the science community just kinda figured this out. Nippard has been talking about it lately too. It's just common sense, really.
@@anonymous134y We'll--they needed the studies to validate it. Irony is when I started reading about weighs and training in 1975--Arthur Jones who invented Nautilus machines, said "Full Range of Motion into the stretch" and "Emphasize the Eccentrics" nearly 50 years ago.
@@anonymous134y For each part of common sense, there's just been as much stupid exercising advice too. I remember p90x talking about squeezing that contraction hard as you can at the top and it's been commonly thrown around for bodybuilding as far as I remember. Science just proved it's the opposite(probably still some benefit), but it's just our modern glasses of hindsight that makes us think it's common sense. Like seeing the answer on a quiz show. Course of it's obvious, proving it? Harder.
@@anonymous134yjust because this was proven doesn’t mean everything is. A lot of stuff was proven wrong too.
Also, how exactly would it be common sense? Do you mean that it felt natural to do them instinctively; that’s not common sense.
as someone who could Not sustain the RIR- style where U barely ever reach failure i wanted to know, If U Guys really have the feeling it makes a difference. I simply cannot train 4-5 weeks without ever going all Out Just to to it for 1 week and then Deload. How do U Guys stay motivated or is it just because U dont like intense workouts and this is one way to still get the best Out of it?
Gave those super deep pull overs a try today and firstly they felt great but secondly I was shocked at how light I had to go with them. I did wonder why you big fellas were not going heavier. Superb info.
DR. Mike is hilarious as usual. Great topic. Excellent guests.
Really loved the collaboration. Absolutely outstanding video! 🙏
Great video, guys! I can see a lot of potential benefit integrating some of these techniques into my limited equipment home workout.
More of this! This trio is badass.
Thanks! Those lat dumbell raises look great for home workouts.
Hey Dr. Mike, I watched your video with Will Tennyson and have been binging them since. Wanted to let you know that your videos have helped me get back into my groove. I started lifting earlier this year and have been disciplined and consistent since, and made a ton of gains (+60lbs). For a few weeks from late November until last week I somewhat fell out of the groove. Unlike many lifters these days I’m actually very proud and satisfied with the gains I’ve made. But that mentality had honestly stunted my ambition to continue improving in the gym. Your videos have helped me wake up and start training hard again, with the goal of becoming better than I am now. The humor paired with the genuine excitement on the information you give is what really separates you from others. Just wanted to say thank you, I really enjoy and appreciate your content. Imma start blasting tren now! (Jk) :)
Seconded! So satisfied with my body so my motivation is shot, weird how that works right? Weird thing is that when I started lifting I didn't even do it for the looks, but one day I saw my pec start to round, and I've been trying to make it more round ever since. I am taking it easy though because my wrist and tricep tendon have hurt for the past 6 months (same PPL for 1.5 years) and I recovered from a groin and knee injury this year. I am so stingy about my form, but I have to start accepting injuries due to longterm use are imminent if I do not have a variety of exercises.
This was the one of the best eye filling training which i watch in this channel ! Bow infront of you Doctors... Very good work !
That training is looking more like how I like to train, great stuff.
About 2 months ago, I added lenghtened partials to 2/7 of the exercises i do on my gym days. And it is indeed true that progress has been quite significantly faster ever since, especially on quad extensions, hamstring curls, unilateral rows, and lateral raises. I recommend them to anyone who is novice and above.
I'm a surfer and paddle endurance is a huge part of athletic fitness for us. A lot of shoulder and back is engaged in a rotational motion that requires both endurance (distance paddling while navigating the moving ocean) and explosive power (sprint paddling to catch waves). The pullover exercise specifically hadn't even occurred to me, and a lot of these exercises will be super useful in dryland conditioning for paddling. Thanks for sharing!
Dude. I had the same EXACT thoughts!! I've been looking for some surfing-related exercises, but chanced upon this episode not really even thinking about surfing. I was pleasantly surprised!! Dr. Mike is da man
this is how i have always done pullovers and i had people tell me i was wrong for so long. it's good to finally see someone agree with me. this is actually a very oldschool technique called the breathing pullover where it's all about stretching and squeezing! you get the extra ROM by arching the back. i also like doing them with EZ bars although some people think i am crazy there too.
I use the ez-bar because it feels way better in the stretch for me than having the hands together holding a dumbbell.
@@Micheldiedyeah i always liked the wrist position better, too.
It always gets you when some nerds from academy show up "yeah bros this is how you do exercises" like come on get lost weaklings. And then the nerds are Pak And Wolf and you just submit.
You have quickly become one of my favourite "UA-cam Fitness Influencers", so glad Nippard made that shoutout to you
The "I lift therefore I am" T shirt of Pak is just incredible.
Surprised to see someone still doing dumbbell pullovers besides weighted dips this is my all time favorite exercise .I’m 60 and I still do both with pullover done with iron master dumbbell.
Top notch stellar shots of awesome sauce cheers !!💯💓🙏💥
Beautiful, you always have good music too!
Cool, thanks for the illustrations
More videos like that would be great Dr Mike thanks Sir good collab
Please more workouts with Dr. Milo Wolf!
The three of you have great stage synergy
Mike's content is too good! 💯
Great stuff gentlemen
7:26 "Milo's and my" just in case you're wondering what the correct grammatical syntax for that situation is.
sooooo close to 1 million subscribers, good job mike.
Im curious to know why you program dumbell pullovers for lats. Since they have no leverage above 120 degrees of shoulder flexion (hope thats the right term), would they still experience significant stretch mediated hypertrophy? Would it not be more productive to do an exercise which is hardest in the most stretched rom where the lats still have some leverage?
Funny how science based channels did a complete 360 to end up where bodybuilders were, partial reps, it only took them like 50 years of research to figure it out, not to hate on them, i love the fact that science and empirical knowledge are pointed towards the same direction now
Not so true, when you watch older bodybuilder or general bodybuilder doing partials it's like 90% shortned partials(the sqeeze) not lengthened partials. Full ROM still performs better than shortned partials for hypertrophy .
@@shlace7976 it worked for bodybuilders, we just need more scientific data to prove them right since, new data is getting closer and closer with each study, today is lenghtened partials, tomorrow it might be another range of motion
Thanks guys, I now have a new way to workout my back.
I've instinctively slowed down my preacher curl reps in the stretched position. Just feels like I get the most DOMS in that end range. Most of the time I can walk out of the gym after a couple of sets and already tell my biceps are going to be sore later. Haven't found a biceps exercise that gives me that gnarly stimulus.
I only have a couple weeks where I've been consistently training JM presses, but I'm starting to get the feeling that they're the 'preacher curl' of the triceps. 💪
Finally someone explaining how to use all the Prime equipment at my gym
Mike following the science and showcasing lengthened partials
Do we know if it's lengthened partials that cause more growth or just the increased mechanical tension that occurs in certain exercises in the lengthened position?
For example, a dumbbell fly or pullover happens to put the most tension on the pecs and lats in the lengthened position due to the gravity vector. If we compare those exercises to a pec deck or a lat prayer where the gravity vector is not relevant and tension curve is much more consistent throughout the movement- Does the lengthened position still offer more hypertrophy benefits? In other words, does the stretch cause more hypertrophy independent of mechanical tension?
You would need to design a study that measured time under tension, work, and intensity. But even then, stabilizing muscles are more or less advantaged during certain parts of a given range of motion, even if the tension curve is consistent. Your rotator cuff could be limiting the strength output of your pec at the lengthened position on a pec deck. And certain muscles may even respond differently than others.
This would seem to be a very difficult thing to determine in compound exercises, on account of the fact that the degree to which certain muscles contribute to the movement varies throughout the range of motion. On that rowing machine for example, your lats are probably doing more of the work in the lengthened position, and as you contract more, your biceps and rear delts contribute more to the movement.
If it is just mechanical tension that matters, then we could conceivably get the same hypertrophy benefits with heavier weight and a smaller range of motion... Or even the same weight with more reps.
@@irfuel Or is pushing the range of motion to the limit all the time harder on your joints and tendons? When are you more likely to dislocate a joint or snap a tendon, in the stretched position or in the middle of the ROM?
To be fair, I generally use a pretty good range of motion on most exercises, but only when it's comfortable to do so. I only ATG squat, but my ROM on dips is comparatively much lower because it gets uncomfortable for me. I'm not so quick to force myself into an unnecessary large ROM because some early science says it's good for muscle growth, especially when there are tons of successful professional body builders who are not so dogmatic.
@@limitisillusion7Being harder with slow movements on the tendons is what makes them stronger over time. This is why deep squatting is said to be the best thing for knee health, whereas running or jumping has bad effects on the knees.
The whole reason why lengthened partials are superior for growth is because it makes evolutionary sense. If you keep putting your muscles in a more vulnerable position, you signal your body to make them stronger, bigger and more resistant to injury.
@@user-he4ef9br7z Running is not bad for your knees. Runners have less arthritis than non runners. Running also improves bone density better than strength training does. Your body adapts just like it does with squatting. I would argue that running long distances is a much more natural form of exercise than squatting excessive weight with a barbell.
Good energy guys
the problem I've found with trying to incorporate lengthened partials is that I don't know how many reps in reserve I have left and end up training every set to failure
fair enough, me too
Just train to failure and stop doing lengthened partials👍
I'm going to do the Dr. Idiot curls tonight! Thanks Dr. Mike!
Dumbbell pullovers havw become my favourite exercise. Other than the lift has helped my lat growth, my shoulders feel very good after I do them
Please turn this into a series 🙏
I've been pausing in the stretch position with those pull overs and it makes me shake like crazy
Is that a Calvin & Hobbes forearm tat?! I like this guy.
I saw in another video that there were studies supporting the idea that pull overs were an inferior work out because they shift tension away from the intended muscle, the lats.
Dr mike is in elite shape..damn!
Just finished my pain any% speed run. Weighted pushups (close grips) 3 sets, dropping weight each set. Superset the last one into IDK (Lifting dumbbell from behind head to above). One set soon after of lower weight.
I need to make up for my lacklustre shoulders somehow, especially because my elbow doesn’t like side delt moves.
Nice, will you guys cover a Push and Leg Workout as well?
Nice to see the 70's coming back.
Dr Milo, hell yeah!
Great advice and demonstrations! I'm 58 with no real joint problems and try to go to failure on full stretch as often and safely as possible. It seems to me something like the curl you were doing with partials would put the bicep tendon at risk (something that happened to me doing chinups in the past). How do we know the safe zone to be in because tendons and ligaments can get injured with no warning? It's never my muscles that have been the problems in the gym but pushing myself to failure on every rep on every set concerns me. Thanks!
Could you make follow-up on how this look for the basic bodyweight exercises? pullups, dips, pushups etc?
I am thinking the bottom part of the dip and pushup is where there is biggest stretch.
Add a band! Band-Loaded Dumbbell Pullovers were strongly recommended by John Meadows and for good reason.
Thanks!
Saw they were in ny and was waiting for the collab
Love the content! Would a vent over single arm cable tricep kickback be a good long stretch exercise for triceps?
That last exercise is extremely similar to a pelican curl on rings. That one always brings insane amounts of blood into my arms
Geometrically it makes sense to me. I change my angles on the lifts that I can, for similar purpose.
Holy shit Dr.mike is a oompaloompa
I also don't take hypertrophy tips from anyone smaller than me or fatter than me. Both these guys out. Oompaloompa still in.
👍👍👍👍👍👍
Can you do a video for chest, shoulder,arms and legs too
Dr. Mike, what is your thoughts on lengthened overcoming isometrics. I started doing them because of what I had read about isometrics and tendon health and strength in specific joint angles but I am wondering if you know the hypertrophic benefits vs other methods. I know overcoming isometrics have a bad sfr for hyptrophy but I think this is not as bad in very stretched positions
Loved the collab! A challenging question: isn't the injury risk higher when performing lengthened partials? If so, is it worth the trade off? Bc in my mind, you get a little more hypertrophy & a little more injuries throught the training career. Would love to get your opinion on this, thanks!
Lol the injury risk is extremely higher with this. Exponentially greater in fact.
Probably not if you are natural and your recovery and load management is on point
The injury risk is near zero if you do the following
1. Stick to lighter weight.
2. Do the long length partial and full Rom with proper technique.
3. Make every rep a slow 3 second eccentric with 3 second pauses at the stretch position.
I’ve been doing this for past three months and it’s actually made my tendons feel better.
This better be good, I'm going to add a back day and follow it.
@WolfCoaching how much would you say that the ability to increase volume increases hypertrophy when integrating lengthened partials into a set? I assume that lengthen partial still contribute more than the volume. I'm just curious about how much magnitude. Thank you for taking your time to do this video and your research. Congratulations.
mike, could you do a vid on neck training?
Wrapping bands around the dumbbell increases active rom of lats and you can still go deep without issue. A mountain dog movement
Anyone else dying at Dr. Pak's casual summary of suicide at 6:52? "And then life's good.... because you're not there."
I like doing the pullover on a decline with two dumbbells!!! Much healthier for my injury prone shuolders!!!!
8:55 I wouldn't say linearly since the change in intensity should be higher and higher the closer you are to having arms straight up but it really doesn't affect the exercise's efficiency at all, that's the entire purpose of it.
Note: Change of force needed doesn't change linearly but the intensity might, Idk about that one.
Mixed feelings about this. Great on the conceptual level and two of the exercises, the pullovers and the Freemotion curls. But how many gyms have Prime equipment? I don't know of any within 500 miles. Interesting to watch the rows and raises, however, that's rarefied atmosphere to train in a gym with high-end equipment! Overall a good reminder of the importance of stretch-position movements.
Thank you Chandler, Ross & Joey 😍
Doing pullovers perpedincular to the bench allows your hips to drop far below your shoulders, maximizing the stretch. I think it would be better this way.
I remember using a training from years back called the Matrix technique (nothing to do with the film) and it was basically an incorporation of partial movements into sets ie going up half way and down half way working the middle lower and upper parts of the movement. It’s basically what is being said here, nothing new really. Was a great program for getting strong but was exhausting as the rep range was really high for it.
I've been training with more emphasis on eccentrics overall. The question I have is regarding injury exposure in certain muscle groups such as the biceps when focusing on lengthening partials. Would constant force applied to the muscle group at a maximum lengthened position be more vulnerable to injury? Would a gradual exposure to this stimulus minimize how prone an individual is to injury through adaptation?
We need more triple doctor content with the Wolf Pak
FUCK YES Dr. MIKE!! I been itching for this video!! Thank you, you goddamn, amazing, science man! TAKE MY MONEY!!!
lat pullovers, my favorite.
Im a PHD Ultra max + you guys have a lot to learn. We were doing lengthened partials years ago. We have secret research that shows micro eccentric pulses 1mm of range of motion at a time create up to 2x as much stimulus with .7x the amount of fatigue.
So in a stretched position, small pulses with as little as 1mm ROM, actually worked?
@@bradturner7678 yes but it has to be precisely 1 mm or it wont work
Mike, you know we all love you here. Quick question: Are you the same height seated as standing?
As always, I love the humor and, of course, the science...
Dr Paks Temporal vein is wild!
7:11 love seeing Dr Mike when he recognizes one of his kin
Ok so when one guy is named "Wolf" and the other "Pak" you are really sitting on some branding gold if you combine and make a channel/company/brand/whatever.
I watched this video when it came out, but just tried lengthened partials on DB pullovers in my back workout today. Wow. I felt like my lats were getting pulled apart in the best way possible. Awesome idea!
DB pullovers Is a chest exercise
@@AttenboroughClipsshould tell my chest and lats that then considering i feel it barely in my chest, and mostly in my triceps/lats/and seratus.
Hey Dr. Mike, should I be doing partials until failure in all sets or in my last few sets. I wonder if doing partials until failure would inhibit my ability to do full sets if I do more than 2-3 sets. For example, I do 4 sets of hack squats and 2 sets of leg press.
Getting awfulllly close to A MILLY 😮
Any thoughts on combining lengthen partials with myoreps? Like you do a normal set, then rest for a few breaths and then do a bunch of lengethen partials myorep sets?
That is why sam sulek is growing every year even tho theres no time undertension nor full range of motion… it’s stretched partials thats helping him
That’s a funny way of spelling Masteron.
Actually, training and diet are very small factors when it comes to physique. You can't point at 1 guy and say "he does X so X must be the reason he's big"
90% of your physique comes from genetics and drugs(if taking any). If Sam Sulek trained a little differently he'd still look about the same.
Would there be more benefit from maintaining a posterior pelvic tilt or flattened lower back during the Lat Pullover? By stabilizing the distal half of the muscle wouldn't there be more stretched incurred on the target muscle?
I wish my gym has that 1st machine
is that Dr. Mike or Phil Health?!
Great video, funny guys, informative. check
Now that I have experienced it, I don't think I'll ever be able to finish ever again without Dr. Mike shouting: "Finish, finish!" from the side.
I think I hear his voice in my head when I'm dying on squats lol PUSH GOD DAMMIT. STAND UP
Not the context in which Dr. Mike usually yells at me to finish.
2:57
That "opa" sounds so related to me! In Russian whe have the same "opa" for actions! As Mike mentioned!
6:32 wth 🤦♂️ mikes talking about we’re all enhanced work feels incredible 😅
The Greek bois are top notch guests! Super intelligent, interesting, and funny. Not malakas at all!
Wow. Malakas is a Greek word? In tagalog, it means strong
I tried the pullover few days ago and I never felt my abs so much.