I think the answer to your question can be found by those that practice Bonsai. From what I've gathered as I'm embarking on this journey myself, lack of percolation is a factor of soil degradation which occurs at the particle level over time as roots break down the soil. It's a key indicator for when you should repot your tree for bonsai where soil plays a key role since you're limiting the plants root space in an effort to control growth and require maximum efficiency. Granted they use a specialized soil mix but there are likely commonalities here and soil that clumps and is black is also an indicator of degredation and they remove that with a chop stick picking it out to the core. You'll also probably enjoy watching how they repot a tree, disturbing the root base is not all that much of a concern if done correctly and probably a better way to get fresh soil into the root core or sheen even if not practicing bonsai. Fascinating stuff, recommend Bonsai Mirai channel, there's videos that go into this in detail on the tube. I'm just a novice, but I'm betting that nursery soil has been used and reused and is likely dead, I'd replace it all to the core using bonsai techniques, just goaled at maximum growth instead.
Interesting and I must take a look. I think most people understand Bonsai or trees in the ground, it’s something in between people sometimes find difficult
@@Japanesemaples Yes, big learning curve, a lot to know in general and then per species. You're exerting an extreme degree of control to create the art but much of the knowledge and techniques can be used even when you don't need that level of control to maximize results and health.
Great video. I have my own mixture “recipe” that seems to work well here in Texas, and greatly prefer the clay pots, both for the ability to shed excess moisture through the sides, and the weight they bring to help stabilize the trees against wind. (This after I lost several trees through over-potting in large plastic pots which retained too much water.)
Very interesting! I agree the ability to shed excess moisture and add weight are critical. I think sometimes people get so worried about the summer heat the roots get too wet in the spring and make everything worse 👍
I've been using your method of soil, just with some extra perlite in - mostly working well so far with clay pots which are raised. I am worried about another wet winter though. I really don't want to lose more trees from the rain :(
I've got about half with pine bark+perlite+moss mix and half with more of a potting soil mix with a bit of bark mixed in. I will say the first bunch when I try doing the "water when it's dry" method when temps are 30-40C they definitely get angry looking, shedding leaves and such, while the ones with the more soil-based mixes can go longer between watering even when both are "moist". Primarily pine park potting mixes may look "moist" and feel damp to the touch, however it seems like in higher heats the moisture in the mix is much less freely available for uptake into the tree. I haven't done exact experiments where I have one identical tree with one and one with the other, but I noticed that once it's 30C or higher, especially if there's wind I basically ignore the "water once it's totally dry" advice and water daily no matter if the bark is damp beneath the surface. The trees with soil-based mixes I am a bit more conservative with watering.
Really interesting and while it’s not often that hot where I live I agree, if it’s going to be really hot just water anyway. I think this is safer and the cooling effect on the roots should not be underestimated. Thanks for posting 👍
@@Japanesemaples Yeah that seems to be safest. Unfortunately with the climate the past few years seems like anywhere can get these freak heat domes that shift 40C/100F ovens over even coastal temperate climate areas for a week or more so just need to be on our toes. What soil are they in? Are they in ground? Are they in a raised berm/on a hill? Is there a lot of hot wind? Even several identical trees planted with different variables there could require very different care. I'm still figuring it all out. Really I need to actually do some experiments but I feel bad experimenting on trees sometimes.
Greetings from Greece. I've had lots and lots of failures with the soil mixes sold in the nurseries here. Especially the "ericateous compost" here is a muddy crap that holds like 20x the volume in water and stays saturated for 1 month... The discussion around soils is literally endless, major role is the sun, don't know if you mentioned it. The more the sun exposure, the more water they need. After lots of failures, I've seen some progress with the pre-made soils by adding around 30% perlite, even if they already had perlite in them. What has really helped, though, was adapting to MrMaple's soil, 75% pine bark (fines/3-6mm) then 20% peat and 5% perlite. I increased the peat since here it is very hot and rairily rains so I needed that extra water retention... I have a few more maples in the old crappy mixes that I will experiment next season. The idea is to increase the water retention until I need to water once every 5-7 days. Funny thing is, with that mix I was fearing that I'll need to water every day at least, but I've seen that once every 3 days (or 2 days when it was 40°C) is enough!!! They get 3-4 hours of sun though, need to mention. Moreover, that super free draining mix is very forgiving, meaning that I even upsised the pots by 2-3 times and even watered without being fully dry, and there was no negative effect on the trees. For anyone that wants to start from somewhere, I would recommend starting with a highly draining mix, then monitor how often they need to water, and the next seasons increase the water retending parts (peat,compost etc) until they have the watering schedule that suits them. Cheers, Kostas
I would also say it doesn’t address the claim to better aeration in certain soil compositions. It’s a good starting point though. I really enjoy the videos and I’m learning a lot.
@@Japanesemaples I will also add my own acers where I’ve added 50% ericaceous are doing better than the ones where I haven’t changed the soil at all. This is in regards to a few I picked up discounted due to leaf scorch from big name stores. There’s so much information that it’s good to see real life experiences.
Combining multiple ingredients both organic or inorganic like perlite make a potting mix. A mix of two composts like I use I would still term a potting mix. As I’m transplanting trees not growing from cuttings or seed, then I think the term compost is more widely understood 👍
As you haven’t potted the ‘free draining’ compost you don’t know what’s in it. I can pour a full watering can of 6ltrs through my pot and none stays in the top. For a comparison to be more accurate you’ll have to make the compost yourself for both the ‘free draining’ and your own. Otherwise your assumptions are too big.
I take your point, however there are infinite variations of mixes so no test would be totally conclusive. The main takeaway for me is that in the end the nursery compost drained off far more water than my own mixture and that would be an advantage to some, disadvantage to others. Thanks for posting 👍
I always get great stuff on Acers with this channel. Thanks for all the information!
Great to hear!
I think the answer to your question can be found by those that practice Bonsai. From what I've gathered as I'm embarking on this journey myself, lack of percolation is a factor of soil degradation which occurs at the particle level over time as roots break down the soil. It's a key indicator for when you should repot your tree for bonsai where soil plays a key role since you're limiting the plants root space in an effort to control growth and require maximum efficiency. Granted they use a specialized soil mix but there are likely commonalities here and soil that clumps and is black is also an indicator of degredation and they remove that with a chop stick picking it out to the core. You'll also probably enjoy watching how they repot a tree, disturbing the root base is not all that much of a concern if done correctly and probably a better way to get fresh soil into the root core or sheen even if not practicing bonsai. Fascinating stuff, recommend Bonsai Mirai channel, there's videos that go into this in detail on the tube. I'm just a novice, but I'm betting that nursery soil has been used and reused and is likely dead, I'd replace it all to the core using bonsai techniques, just goaled at maximum growth instead.
Interesting and I must take a look. I think most people understand Bonsai or trees in the ground, it’s something in between people sometimes find difficult
@@Japanesemaples Yes, big learning curve, a lot to know in general and then per species. You're exerting an extreme degree of control to create the art but much of the knowledge and techniques can be used even when you don't need that level of control to maximize results and health.
Great video. I have my own mixture “recipe” that seems to work well here in Texas, and greatly prefer the clay pots, both for the ability to shed excess moisture through the sides, and the weight they bring to help stabilize the trees against wind. (This after I lost several trees through over-potting in large plastic pots which retained too much water.)
Very interesting! I agree the ability to shed excess moisture and add weight are critical. I think sometimes people get so worried about the summer heat the roots get too wet in the spring and make everything worse 👍
I've been using your method of soil, just with some extra perlite in - mostly working well so far with clay pots which are raised. I am worried about another wet winter though. I really don't want to lose more trees from the rain :(
As long as the pot size is not too big I’m sure they will be fine 👍
I've got about half with pine bark+perlite+moss mix and half with more of a potting soil mix with a bit of bark mixed in. I will say the first bunch when I try doing the "water when it's dry" method when temps are 30-40C they definitely get angry looking, shedding leaves and such, while the ones with the more soil-based mixes can go longer between watering even when both are "moist". Primarily pine park potting mixes may look "moist" and feel damp to the touch, however it seems like in higher heats the moisture in the mix is much less freely available for uptake into the tree. I haven't done exact experiments where I have one identical tree with one and one with the other, but I noticed that once it's 30C or higher, especially if there's wind I basically ignore the "water once it's totally dry" advice and water daily no matter if the bark is damp beneath the surface. The trees with soil-based mixes I am a bit more conservative with watering.
Really interesting and while it’s not often that hot where I live I agree, if it’s going to be really hot just water anyway. I think this is safer and the cooling effect on the roots should not be underestimated. Thanks for posting 👍
@@Japanesemaples Yeah that seems to be safest. Unfortunately with the climate the past few years seems like anywhere can get these freak heat domes that shift 40C/100F ovens over even coastal temperate climate areas for a week or more so just need to be on our toes. What soil are they in? Are they in ground? Are they in a raised berm/on a hill? Is there a lot of hot wind? Even several identical trees planted with different variables there could require very different care. I'm still figuring it all out. Really I need to actually do some experiments but I feel bad experimenting on trees sometimes.
Thank you for this video Carl you amazing man
Not sure about amazing lol but I try 👍
Love these kind of experiment video's, very helpfull 👍
Thanks very much! I love to put a little science to all the speculation 👍
Greetings from Greece. I've had lots and lots of failures with the soil mixes sold in the nurseries here. Especially the "ericateous compost" here is a muddy crap that holds like 20x the volume in water and stays saturated for 1 month... The discussion around soils is literally endless, major role is the sun, don't know if you mentioned it. The more the sun exposure, the more water they need. After lots of failures, I've seen some progress with the pre-made soils by adding around 30% perlite, even if they already had perlite in them.
What has really helped, though, was adapting to MrMaple's soil, 75% pine bark (fines/3-6mm) then 20% peat and 5% perlite. I increased the peat since here it is very hot and rairily rains so I needed that extra water retention... I have a few more maples in the old crappy mixes that I will experiment next season. The idea is to increase the water retention until I need to water once every 5-7 days.
Funny thing is, with that mix I was fearing that I'll need to water every day at least, but I've seen that once every 3 days (or 2 days when it was 40°C) is enough!!!
They get 3-4 hours of sun though, need to mention.
Moreover, that super free draining mix is very forgiving, meaning that I even upsised the pots by 2-3 times and even watered without being fully dry, and there was no negative effect on the trees.
For anyone that wants to start from somewhere, I would recommend starting with a highly draining mix, then monitor how often they need to water, and the next seasons increase the water retending parts (peat,compost etc) until they have the watering schedule that suits them.
Cheers, Kostas
Excellent advice and really interesting observation. Definitely the case that there is no best practice, only what’s best for you 👍
Interesting, I wasn’t expecting that result either
Really surprising that’s how the water passes through! Thanks for posting 👍
I would also say it doesn’t address the claim to better aeration in certain soil compositions. It’s a good starting point though. I really enjoy the videos and I’m learning a lot.
@@alanmorrison470 I’m certainly still learning too! Thanks for watching 👀
@@Japanesemaples I will also add my own acers where I’ve added 50% ericaceous are doing better than the ones where I haven’t changed the soil at all. This is in regards to a few I picked up discounted due to leaf scorch from big name stores. There’s so much information that it’s good to see real life experiences.
Thank you for all your advice!
How do you poke with your moisture meter without disrupting the roots? How deep do I need to check with the probe
The roots will be fine, I just push the probe in about an inch. 👍
@@Japanesemaples thanks mate
Nice video , thank you!
What is “more mature compost” exactly?
In the uk John Innes no.3 Basically non clay soil 👍
😅would you recommend using a multipurpose/erinasious mix .I’m in the UK what mature do you use ?
John Innes on 3 👍
@@Japanesemaples I’m trying to avoid peat based, any suggestions ?
@@jon4atee1 really anything that adds some weight to the compost to give some moisture retention and helps the pots not fall over 👍
So, are we talking about compost or potting mix?
Combining multiple ingredients both organic or inorganic like perlite make a potting mix. A mix of two composts like I use I would still term a potting mix. As I’m transplanting trees not growing from cuttings or seed, then I think the term compost is more widely understood 👍
As you haven’t potted the ‘free draining’ compost you don’t know what’s in it. I can pour a full watering can of 6ltrs through my pot and none stays in the top. For a comparison to be more accurate you’ll have to make the compost yourself for both the ‘free draining’ and your own. Otherwise your assumptions are too big.
I take your point, however there are infinite variations of mixes so no test would be totally conclusive. The main takeaway for me is that in the end the nursery compost drained off far more water than my own mixture and that would be an advantage to some, disadvantage to others. Thanks for posting 👍