My Take On The Watcher Drama
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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The other part of Shane’s wife’s comment is that they are talking about “livable wages” but then paid 50k just for their wedding venue, she had 3 wedding dresses… so people know they are making more then livable wages through watcher
3?? why would you need that many?? that's just wasteful.
and don't forget about the 55.000 $ they spent on the wedding venue alone lol
People get used to a certain level of comfort, certain lifestyle REALLY quickly which results in them moving their standards for a "livable wage" much higher. That's why rich ppl sometimes say they are "poor" or at least not that wealthy. It's not always on purpose, they might truly think so. They got used to their lifestyles and have gone blind to their privilege. Not to mention when you become wealthy you start to surround yourself with other wealthy ppl, which causes you to compare your financial status to theirs, and not to the vast majority of population who are broke. And those wealthy ppl around you might be wealthier than you and so you're gonna think you're "poor".
Yeah, that seals it, they suck.
she had 3 wedding dresses? for what?
The important thing to note when comparing Watcher and Dropout is also that Watcher make one show at a time, and that's about it
But dropout puts out about 5 or 6 different shows at once which is just.... sooooooo much better value
10000% the fact that their big incentive to subscribing to the service early is one season of a show that no one is all that hyped about seems like a choice? If they marketed it more being like every Monday get new episodes of Ghost Files, Food Files on Tuesday, Mystery Files on Wednesday, and our brand new show, Travel Season, on Thursdays. To actually make a content offering and justify more reason behind the streamer rather than paying for content you've already seen until 1 new show drops at the end of May.
First video: party rock is in the house tonight
Second video: sorry for party rockin
Amazing synopsis, you could start a series called buzz feed solved
It’s annoying that I feel like they just hired a bunch of their friends unnecessarily and now we have to pay so that they can afford to hire their friends
Yeah someone said they went to the LinkedIn and all the employees are all basically creatives or video editors (which I have to agree with on my own glance) and no actual business people and it’s like no wonder they’ve made such awful financial decisions.
I look at it as it was probably EXTREMELY expensive to do shows like Ghost Files. I mean a full camera crew, set design crew, a crew that travels with them, $1,000+ cameras, 1,000s of dollars worth of equipment, travel expenses... I'd say each episode costs between 70k and 100k to film. So I get that, but everything else they produce can be done in studio. For example, Puppet History is such a well thought out show that obviously would take forever to make just one episode, yet it shouldn't cost them anymore than a few thousand to produce each episode. I personally don't like the "they have too many employees" argument, because they only have what, 19 employees? And each of them have a clear and defined job. All of the positions they have filled make sense for a company like Watcher. I do agree there's some nepotism with friends and family, but hey, is it really that bad to bring people with you to the land of success who have been with you since day 1? I know if I had a million dollar company, I would want people I know and trust around me, for the most part, as long as they know how to do the jobs they're assigned to do, and that's what I feel like Watcher is. Sure, they hired family and friends, but they all do their part and do it well.
@@MFBloosh I don't know why you're including the cost of the equipment they've already purchased in your estimate. At most, I'd assume the videos cost about 20k (max $30k) to travel and man. Unless they're booking everyone on first class tickets and the Ritz Carlton suites - which I wouldn't be surprised if they were, since they seem to be treating their fans like their personal bank. They're large enough that I don't think they're paying these venues for showcasing the locations. They're doing it for free or a massively reduced price. They've let lifestyle creep happen and now they want to offset the price to normal everyday people instead of rethinking their production budget and firing their friends whom they never should have hired in the first place.
And yeah, the employee thing does make sense. They're running the size of a small tech startup with 100x the funding than they have. Of course you're going to make sure that they all have clear and defined jobs, but that doesn't mean they need all those jobs in the first place. They could run a ghost crew with 3-4 editors (they only release that many videos a month anyway, so one per editor makes sense considering the length and the amount of footage they have), 1-2 production assistants who also help with research, and 2 camera men. They want to be Buzzfeed without actually having the resources Buzzfeed have because they got used to it. They could run the channel with 10-15 employees max and be perfectly fine and profitable. They don't need double the number.
It's crazy how much fans dogpiled on Steven just to preserve their parasocial relationship with Ryan and Shane. They're fucking grown ass men making their own decisions, they don't have to be fucking babied. Especially Shane, my god, imagine if Try Guys fans went 'Ned Fulmer wouldn't cheat on his wife because all his content showed how much he loved his wife', it's pathetic. Sometimes the people you look up to make bad and stupid decisions, just because he has been anti capitalism and eat the rich doesn't mean he's incapable of being greedy.
The Professor is perfect though and can do no wrong, he was a non voting member and was held against his will with his parents as hostage. It's why they stopped doing Puppet History because he was vocal about the change and kept threatening to speak out.
Yeah, these the same people that want companies to burn if they don’t care about the people. But immediately defend them when they have influencers they like.
Not shit talking smaller companies though, because most of them don’t make Watched money anyways
yeah there's three voices in the argument. One is that "we don't have much leeway for a subcription" which is a legit argument especially with the current economic climate, the second is "we just don't see value in a paywalled content" again a legit argument, something like Dropout is where they are at because of trial and error. and yeah the last is "fuck you steven".
i think the hate is somewhat understandable when steven's show is about "eating expensive food" and then asking people for money, feels a little tone deaf. BUT that being said the hate and adoration towards particular member is still dumb.
hey! I wrote this in another comment but it isn't just "oh Steven is annoying and has expensive shows." I'm sure for many it is though. Of the 3, Steven is the only one who is CEO and involved in the business + finance side of things. Shane and Ryan stepped down from being involved in that last year. Other reasons like him being the reason their podcast was cancelled silently due to comments he made about being friends w people he knew to be racist/homophobic. Then paywalled his apology and the podcast was removed silently. But fans think this must've been at least been his idea due to how it's literally his job to make business/financial choices where Ryan and Shane are less involved. NOT saying Shane and Ryan were just innocent bystanders. But it makes sense for people to point the finger toward someone who's the CEO. On top of people already disliking him and the expensive show, the dogpiling just grew.
@@bohlam6c yeah, I absolutely understand if people are frustrated with Steven considering you don't even see him much in Watcher and he's known for having an expensive lifestyle, but what annoys me is when people act luke he's the only one at fault, like he's one of those Alien Broodmothers where if you just kill them, the entire hivemind is destroyed. They're all individuals who made the choice, and the blame should be on all of them.
@jolene1636 I get that, but it gets a bit annoying when people act like he's the only one at fault, like Ryan and Shane are prisoners being held hostage. Like maybe it's just my own biases, I knew him before Shane and Ryan so maybe I'm more attached, I'm not blind to my own biases after all, but it's getting to the point that Ryan and specifically Shane are getting coddled like babies as if they had no will of their own in this decision.
I feel like they jumped the gun on this decision. a poll or something on patreon, or youtube would have given the feedback they needed to realize this wasn't the right move.
Yeah, that’s why I still have a problem. Like no way, they went though with this without asking their audience. What kind of stupid company doesn’t consider that? I don’t think they are stupid, I think they purposely didn’t ask their audience so they can fully go ahead with their idea. Then they could either ask for forgiveness or it works out.
I'm pretty sure they already have a patron as well
i feel like all companies should only announce controversial stuff on april 1st so if it isnt received well they can always say it's a joke
this is why market research and surveys are so important 😂
@@Xpschwester1 BASED 😩
Wait they have 25 employees but have to hire freelance on scene?
What are the staff for?
my guess is that the cost of hourly wages (and potential overtime) + flights/hotel for moving staff around to different locations ends up being more expensive than hiring freelance on-site who can go home at the end of the day. just a hypothesis though
@love4teacups 100% that's why but again, why then do they ALSO have 25 employees in house. that just seems like an excessive amount of people for how often and what they produce.
Really isn't that large of a staff man. Production, crew, editing, marketing, sales, socials, liaisons with Patreon/UA-cam, etc. It builds up incredibly quickly.
For international shoots.
@@KS-xk2soit is a big staff for youtube. Especially where most of the stuff people like about Watcher is the unscripted banter. Even then, lights, sound, couple of camera guys, advertising, booking, couple of research people, social media person, how many more full time people would they really need.
I’m a Dropout subscriber, and I’m unbelievably happy.
Like Caanths and Stanz say, it wasn’t free content they suddenly paywalled. CollegeHumor was free content, but Sam Reich took CollegeHumor and completely changed it into something totally different, and markedly higher quality. They also have a *shit ton* of employees. But they aren’t doing it purely for money, which this Watcher subscription service sounded like it was mostly focused on. 😬
Dropout is definitely a passion project, and Sam used his own money and connections to jump start it. The subscription part is to *continue* supporting their ability to make the shit they love to make, that we the fans also love.
That’s likely why they changed their entire brand and name from CollegeHumor, to Dropout. They’re distinctly different!
It sucks because I haven’t watched Shayne and Ryan in a long time, but I really loved their videos, so seeing drama pop up from them was a big 😳 moment for me.
Ah i love Dropout, and I really respect their comeback after Collegehumor went under. It really feels like Sam and the others put in the work to build it back up again, and tbh I think they’re way better off for it now.
Does Dropout have a lot of employees? I read a comment somewhere that says a lot of the people who appear in their videos are contractors and it's just a small core group [I think it was 5 or 5 people] who are full time employees. I love dropout regardless even though I don't have a sub.
@@GC-ps9mnI believe that all of the crew and production staff are employees, all talent is contract work of various lengths. I don't know if the pay is public, but several non-regular cast have come out and said that the pay is very generous compared to other similar work.
Totally agree. With the transition from CollegeHumor to Dropout it was evidently clear that they want to focus more on producing shows rather than skits and that required a different mode of monetization. To me that is a perfectly reasonable change.
I love Dropout and they’re the last streaming service I would ever drop. They’re content is so good and it legitimately feels so worth the investment. Unlike this Watcher horse crap. I’d much rather pay $6 CAD/month to see Zac Oyama wear a bizarre muscle suit and tiny hands and throw protein powder in someone’s face than pay $9 CAD/month to help some rich boy film himself flying all over the place eating expensive food I can’t even afford.
I would like to add some context to the Steven dogpile that happened. To start, I know a lot of it is people thinking he is annoying or not liking his shows. But Steven is the CEO of Watcher with Shane and Ryan stepping down last year. Steven has talked about being involved in the financial and business aspects of running the company where Shane and Ryan are less involved there. This DOES NOT mean Shane and Ryan were bystanders in all this. But fans place more blame on Steven believing since he's the literal CEO, this must've been initiated by him. Also, there's this podcast they all had a while ago that was literally cancelled silently because Steven said he chooses to remain friends with people he knows to be homophobic/racist because...reasons? I dunno the reasoning wasn't that good. He released an apology on PATREON. Paywalled apology. Podcast silently cancelled. Put that all on top of people thinking he's less funny than Shane and Ryan, his shows on Watcher performing less well, and it became a massive storm on top of him.
Bumping this
man, giving steven all the power being the ceo is honestly such a bad call. honestly should've stayed where they 3 hold equal power, so there wouldn't be a leader leading the group since on the base they are all friends. like for example the sidemen, not having a leader thus making them equal, that resulted in helps keeping their group strong throughout the years
are you saying this was his plan all along?
@@TheLOLGuy28 Ryan and Shane stepped down as CEOs because their skills didn’t align with CEO duties. They need someone like Steven to fill that role. Ryan has said before: ‘Anyone who were to think that this company is moving on without [Lim], it’s quite the opposite-we’re succeeding because of him.’
What podcast??
The biggest oversight and the biggest mistake was not initially giving patreon members access
Or even giving Patreon members a heads up or explanation about what would happen to their subs when they made an announcment
Even now it’s only 3 months access according to the patreon members
I honestly think they wanted their patreon members to double pay
@@bryand6811 that would be insane actually
@@bryand6811I believe they were shutting down the patreon anyways so
It's crazy how fast the fans are ready to overlook this absolute disregard towards them after the apology that they more or less were forced to make to keep their precious precious money. For me this ruined my whole image of them. Especially Shane's "eat the rich" mindset that made him relatable. And this was not only a Steven Lim decision (I don't like him as well, sorry), they decided this together. I hate how everyone thinks the other two adults that are detrimental to the channel were somehow forced into it instead of recognizing that we don't know them or their real character.
My personal wish would have been for them to see the disconnect in what they want/ what fans want and go back to how it was before. I liked the older BuzzFeed unsolved videos way more than overproduced ghost files. Fire the people you don't need and start anew. Believe me, you will still get a similar amount of views with fewer mouths to feed, so you can swim in money like you wanted.
All their employees are nepobabies. 80% are directly related to them.
They can't fire them cus they're friends and family. 🥴
Not everyone thinks that, though
Those are just the loudest ones
Right! They're justifying their need for money because of their bad decisions (namely hiring 25 people to run a UA-cam channel) with the whole "television-caliber content" shit, but the majority of their viewers only wanted the "(wheeze)".
They way they framed the goodbye vid as an apology tells you they knew people weren’t going to be happy. Oh and AD free doesn’t mean sponsor free so they will still have to meet certain expectations of the sponsors.
Exactly. They knew people weren't going to be happy but it's like they wanted to see how much they could get away with regardless for the sake of more money. Their apology sounded so hollow, like they're not sorry for making that move, they're just sorry we didn't like it. And they're still going to make it anyways, but at least now we can get the content for free, just a month later.
@@BurningFreesias honestly props to them if this is pre-planned like in terms of marketing this is a huge success. They released the bomb, got the internet talking = free marketing, apology video, the fans compromised, they still got the website. Quite honestly a win.
@@supersuckswatcher will be disbanded in like at most a year and a half they saw broupiut missed and too late
@@cogandballidk about that, honestly
There are still many loud voices that support them
Are they going to consistently pay for subscription? Not necessarily too.
But there are enough people who at least will continue to watch for free,so I don't think that they are going anywhere any time soon (if they use their brains and don't make stupid financial decisions anymore)
@ShesTiredd there's almost no way unless they get half a million subscriptions to cover expenses of that company. I doubt half their current audience will go over. Dropout is more of a production company that hires them as actors for shows or writers instead of what this company does, which is dozens of employees on scripts and production. This happens all the time on the internet and, in capitalism, a need for constant growth without growing your support system. If they don't change, it will fail.
I think the reason they had Shane (tall guy) in the middle and had him speak the most is because people were the least mad at him (there was a lot of parasocial schizoposting about how he was subtly showing he wasn’t happy about the decision and was encouraging people to pirate the content)
Which now, because of his wife's comments, they ARE mad at him.
@@KettleBlacktheBatwhat did her wife do? I'm sorry I'm just not in the loop
@@tazeem4297 Nah it's cool, it's all drama gossip anyways. But yeah, Shane's wife posted a very tone deaf post about how they have to have enough money to not lay people off and how $6 isn't much, when she JUST had a wedding over $100k that included 3 wedding dresses and a $50k venue.
So in knowing that, her post sounds more like "Guys, give them money so I can keep affording this extravagant lifestyle" and also let's people know that Shane has reason to get greedy.
@@KettleBlacktheBat😂 also like every youtuber company goes this way its not as loud but even mr beast is on the down and out you only need a team if 5 or 6 to run a really good youtube channel
You watched one video and came to that conclusion stfu😂
A travel show that is specifically about blowing money on expensive shit in the middle of a recession and climate crisis rubs people the wrong way, and rightly so.
Right! At least the TV travel shows are done on advertisers' dime. Ryan and Shane literally wanted to film one on their fan's dime, even if the majority of their fans are common folks who are struggling in this economy. Of course people don't want to pay to see Shane & friends fly around the world and experience luxurious shit, let alone after they grossly underestimated the worth of 6 dollars, especially considering that 6 USD are more than an average week's wage in many countries, countries that they may even visit on their travels.
To make things worse Shane specifically is known for an "eat the rich" attitude, yet just dropped 50k - more than a lot of people's annual salary - on a wedding with three different dresses for the bride. They yap about "liveable wages", but are obviously able to pay for extravagant weddings and other nice things, all while expecting their viewers to bankroll their unnecessary 25-friends staff.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
and something i feel like was glossed over here is that they were originally also going to remove all the previously uploaded content but they backtracked on that very quickly, like in an hour or less
Worth it is good, but it's about the context of travelling and eating expensive food that rubs people the wrong way. Especially when finance is the main reason why they're doing this. Normal people would say, we can't afford it, but they're doubling down on the decision. Also, there's no law that says you can't do a "budget" version of worth it. You don't have to travel to do the show
plus imo, worth it is good UA-cam content. More of a mindless, huh that's interesting, rather than yes I want to pay for this content and seek I out.
Worth It isn't Watcher content fellas. Its from Buzzfeed.
I only watched Worth It while it was on Buzzfeed. I liked food from cheapest to med price. From what I have heard, highest price point food are almost flaked with edible gold lol
@@mwuahugz1115 Very much NOT the case after the first couple seasons. The expensive option was just as large a variety. Watch the show, or don't have an opinion on it.
Right!!! At least the TV travel shows are done on advertisers' dime. Ryan and Shane literally wanted to film one on their fan's dime, even if the majority of their fans are common folks who are struggling in this economy. Of course people don't want to pay to see Shane & friends fly around the world and experience luxurious shit, let alone after they grossly underestimated the worth of 6 dollars, especially considering that 6 USD are more than an average week's wage in many countries, countries that they may even visit on their travels.
To make things worse Shane specifically is known for an "eat the rich" attitude, yet just dropped 50k - more than a lot of people's annual salary - on a wedding with three different dresses for the bride. They yap about "liveable wages", but are obviously able to pay for extravagant weddings and other nice things, all while expecting their viewers to bankroll their unnecessary 25-friends staff.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
I feel a bit bad for them. The harsh reality is that they will probably need to shrink their staff. I see this with a lot of digital media companies where they ride their revenue up by expanding the staff and facilities, but give themselves no runway for how massively volatile the revenues from these businesses are.
It's crazy that they have a 25 (full time?) person team tbh
They always do it at a peak too. They raise the budgets for everything and hire more staff. Not realizing they are in a bubble, they won’t be this popular forever.
They don’t need to do anything. It’s obvious by their lifestyles that they are making enough money… Steven can drive a tesla, Shane spent 50k alone just on his wedding venue…
I agree. The Ghost Files show no doubt needs a lot of money and staffing to create, simply because of the logistical complexity of what they're filming, but the same does not apply to almost all of their other content. Most of it could be done with just Shane, Ryan, three static cameras, two lapel mics, and an editor.
I don't know whether it's better to compartmentalize the projects into their own budgets, but it seems financially idiotic to have 25 staff when 80% of your output requires less than half of that.
No they dont. They already have successful pateron so I just do not get why would they think this was a good idea in the first place...
what’s insane to me and ticked me off right away is that they’re saying they need to make more money, but they don’t mention how fucking expensive it is to run a website and how expensive the servers will be. like i estimate they’ll need about 50k subscriptions to be profitable, and the server cost to be able to run that smoothly won’t be cheap…
Not really, it’s definitely going to cost a fair amount. But it probably cost them more to hire designers and shit to make the website than server costs
Its just Vimeo white label.
this, I commented this on the video but I didn't see anyone else mention it. I work for a small software development company and we make basic sites similar to theirs but a bit of a smaller scale (and usually with free content, not a payment system) so it's quite crazy if I imagine how much more theirs will cost to maintain
@@cozycasasmr4510 exactly! like i fully understand that they wanted this fancy website, it looks amazing and seem to have great functions, but they could’ve just directed people to their patreon and those who wanted to could pay to watch the videos early.
yes, patreon takes a cut of that money, but now they will probably outsource the website to another company to run it, which once again, costs money. just bad business decisions all around!
@@cozycasasmr4510 exactly! and they’ll probably have to outsource the running of the website to another company, which once again, costs money. or maybe they’ll hire even more people into the company to run it…
i understand why they wanted this fancy website, it looks amazing and seem to have good functions, but they should’ve just stuck with the patreon and posted the videos early for the dedicated fans who are willing to pay for it.
just bad business decisions all around.
Ryan and Shane were Tumblr famous. that's the key element missing here. they did not consider their demographic in this announcement. if they said they're starting their own type of patron so they can afford to pay more staff and have more directorial freedom but didn't stop posting entirely on UA-cam, maybe put their live performances or fan interaction or something behind the paywall this would have worked out exactly how they wanted. but Tumblr bitties will die over principles and as you've seen they're ruthless so the absolute best move was to apologize and just pray new drama comes quickly lol
They have a patreon. Over 13000 members, the basic price isn't even much cheaper than the new platform
Do they though? Seems like they just try to dogpile on Steven so they can keep on liking the innocent duo they love so much. Principal would be holding all of them accountable, not favoritism, unless if that’s the actual principle lol
I don’t really think that’s a key element here. They’ve clearly gotten an audience from multiple different sources and many fan communities are like this in general when they feel betrayed or like the people that they’ve supported have turned their backs on them.
@@nathanwashington9784 I also think they failed to read the room in a different way. People are fatigued on streaming services in general, it's hard/annoying enough trying to balance what to keep between Netflix, Hulu, Max, whatever else platform of their choice, and they're trying to add their own service (which is just one UA-cam channel's worth of content) on top of that.
@@justkiddingnot1913 no that was mostly on twt. i’m a tumblr bitty and the overall sentiment is that people are pissed at the way steven was treated.
and the overall consensus on the situation is that they fucked up. but they apologized seemed sincere and changed the things we wanted to change. so, like, now everyone is pretty chill. there are still a few outliers who still being weird about it, but those are few and far between and i just immediately blocked them.
also, they had a live show yesterday night and it seemed to go really well. so, it seems to be looking up from here.
What’s kinda funny about all this is that they basically just created another Patreon. Like that Watcher website is just gonna be early access videos which UA-camrs usually do with patreon. So I just find funny bc then what’s the point of having that website. Like why not just use Patreon or just use that new website. Or they could try to promote there patreon more. I just find the whole situation kinda funny that they already have patreon but now created a whole website that does the same thing.
needed to find something for the other staff to do i guess
it's possible the split they get from Vimeo for hosting their streaming site is better than the split that patreon gives them.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
I feel like Nebula did such a better job of this similar model of having paid content
But Nebula content is wholly original content, only on that platform. Watcher was putting formerly free content (at least the style and the series ) behind a paywall
Also it is important to point out that video on Nebula is different enough from youtube video that it make sense on that platform. Plus, a lot of UA-camrs who do nebula stuff still put on normal video on UA-cam so their audience have a choice. This watcher stuff is just re packaged UA-cam stuff that used to be free and on cost money.
Nebula is definitely a different kind of beast. It's for multiple creators instead of just the one company, for one, and for two, it's pretty explicitly a platform meant for videos that wouldn't make money on UA-cam due to advertiser censorship. It's a niche Watcher could never hope to fill, so trying (and failing) to emulate what Dropout accomplished was probably the "better" option.
For real, they should have just joined Nebula
They have 25 employees! That's the issue. Why do they need so many employees ...
and Ryan mentioned that they hire freelancers at ghost files locations so it's not like a good chunk of those are for that show...
From what I've heard a lot of them are friends and family.
And they’re all basically creatives. Multiple Producers, directors, and a ton of video editors (including freelance ones just for fun?) It’s just unnecessary
Literally! Like the Minecraft video, why do they need so many people in the credits for a Minecraft video… like wtf
I can definitely understand if they wanted to try and make a network of shows on their own independent platform. And how they could see that as a way to break out and become something like a TV network. But it felt less like they wanted to make a lot more content as a bigger company, and more so they wanted to make a lot more profit as the same sized company.
Nebula is the only independent streaming service I'm willing to pay for at this point but most of their stuff ends up on UA-cam anyways.
It's weird thinking about how I have no issue paying $6ish a month for extra perks on Twitch or solely just to support a creator, but if they were to put all of their new content behind a $6-ish a month paywall, I wouldn't want to pay that same price anymore. The balance between higher quality production and the illusion of low-effort/approachable content is pretty interesting. Jet Lag (the game) talked about how they intentionally don't want to increase the quality of their filming (by having a camera crew, etc.) because the fans are attached to the relatable vibe of the production. Meanwhile Critical Role is an example of something I felt way less invested in the more it got exceedingly commercialized and business-like. Offbrand productions feel like they exist on the edge between.
Even just taking sponsorships in videos feels like an ethical mess while being the mildest step in monetizing production.
On the production quality illusion of low effort thing, I think it also depends on where you invest things. Jet Lag has a lot of graphics and such that has a lot of good production quality, while as you said they film themselves. It manages both because those graphics are mainly to help make sure the audience knows what is happening.
I always understand that this sort of stuff is always somewhat parasocial, and money is always going to become more involved even if just to make a living, but Watcher seemed to have misplaced how to balance all this and found the worst possible solution.
I also think one of the biggest differences is you being able to choose to pay for it. While you might be perfectly fine paying for something if someone asks for it, it feels different if you actually buy someting because at that point it doesn't feel like supporting but like a purchase. The moment you buy something you start to compare to a netflix or other streamer what you get for the same value, where as when you pay because you like to support you don't care about the value you care about how you can show your appreciation.
idk if its gonna get mentioned but people were mad at shane's wife whining about survivable living when they spent 55k on their wedding venue alone i think? and posted about buying expensive handbags while saying they cant survive with what they make to people who cant put food on the table.
The amount of people throwing that absurd number around are insane. Do 5 seconds of research bud, its not even remotely kind of close to that. Booking that venue on a holiday or Saturday night, the most expensive it gets, is like 10k tops.
But she surely works and buys her own bags, it’s seperate from what Shane earns, no? Not that I think he’s struggling either mind you.
@@akapedshe is a freelance illustrator so while I'm sure she works, I feel like Shane probably brings in most of the money
@@carnuatus she’s a freelance illustrator??? Dude she’s not making any money. His money is buying those bags. Trust me, being an independent contractor and doing illustration will not bring in designer bag money. Not unless you’re thumbing your nose at Uncle Sam.
Personally I don’t know about their dynamics but I think it’s a little insane how well received their apology was(i mean I guess it was in UA-camr standards) but it seems like a typical PR apology.
It was, but their fans are like, very parasocial. Add to that, most UA-camr apologies are straight up bad. That when you do something very basic, people are surprised
Also because they were scotfree before it. And even now it's not like they had groomer allegations against them or running a scam or something. So technically speaking they hadn't done anything unforgivable so it was easier for their fans, majority of which had been watching them for years, to accept their apology. Also I don't think it was greed. They were just bad at business and made stupid mistakes. It's understandable to a degree better than most other youtuber apologies.
The typical PR apology where they acknowledge mistakes, address concerns, and promise change is literally how you're supposed to apologize. Can you honestly in good faith say any form of apology would have been enough for you to not take this cynical stance?
@@Toastybees the cynical stance is from the original greedy plan. It is a good apology but they should have made that greedy plan in the first place and it was approved by all 3 people. And Idk my more cynical take would be either they pre-planned the apology or expected less backlash(not this much since it went viral), because now they got attention about watcher tv and most people are just patting them on the back after the apology
Typical PR apology is okay but what they do after is what matters to me
I would love to see someone ask Ryan to define what he means by "TV caliber" content, because he says it a lot but never explains it.
The reality is that "TV caliber" content wouldn't get them 5 million views per episode. It would still rely on advertising, to an even higher degree. It comes with a hierarchy of executives controlling your "artistic vision". You have a dozen people setting your budget to minimize expenses while maximizing profits. And you can be canceled on a whim. So when he says "TV caliber" does he mean less secure and less free than he is now? Because that's what it actually means.
I think what he really means is "I want it all". He wants to make Netflix shows without anyone telling him what's good or bad from a budget, revenue, content perspective.
That's not a bad thing to want as a creator, but their audience was created on an economic model that built that audience for them, and throwing that model away to replace it with one that's more restrictive, gives them less freedom and less ability to grow, is not a remotely sane choice.
They might be able to do what Rooster Teeth did, when they have 6 million subscribers a dozen shows and a thousand episodes with a few hundred exclusive extras, but considering Rooster Teeth has literally just gone bankrupt you have to wonder just how viable this business model is.
Also... while I don't know exactly why Rooster Teeth collapsed, I do know that they ended a lot of their most popular shows and destroyed the dynamics between their most popular personalities.
People watched Roster Teeth on UA-cam because of On The Spot with Jon Risinger, Achievement Hunter with Michael, Gavin and Jeremy, and all the "behind the scenes" shenanigans between them, Blaine and Barbara etc.
They were successfully using UA-cam to promote their own platform for years, but they scaled that back until it was no longer being recommended even to subscribers like me.
I signed up for Rooster Teeth years ago, but I haven't logged in there for a year because 1. I'm not reminded by YT that it exists, and 2. All my favorite personalities had either left or been diminished.
They also spent a lot of money on bigger shows that didn't include the dynamics the fans wanted (sound familiar?)
If Rooster Teeth couldn't make it work with more than a decade of content, a corporate backer, and a lower subscription price, how did Watcher think it could work?
They over hired and over produced and they wanna continue making exactly what THEY want to make on the fans dime. They completely ignored where fans said they didn’t necessarily need the high production value. They ignored it because they wanna make fancy shit. They just can’t pay for it
I'm glad someone pointed out the plain manipulation! When I was first watching this, I had 2 initial thoughts.
1) They led up to this announcement like it was gonna be some giant positive surprise for us. Then it was like " Surprise if you ever want to see us again, you'll pay!"
2) Did they just threaten me? They really said we're gonna cut off all communication and contact unless you pay!
The apology was sour too! I am so amazed that he caught on to the fact that the guys made it sound like it was a problem with their marketing and their explanation. They didn't explain it well. NO Ryan, We're not idiots, we understand where the money's going! We just don't understand why you even need more money because you're making bank and we don't ask for much, We feel distraught that you don't understand your audience this much, we CAN'T afford to pay that for ONE channel, And the numbers don't add up enough for us to trust it. Even Netflix is struggling and The cheapest version of netflix has ads. What exactly was the plan here after this?
Right!!! At least the TV travel shows are done on advertisers' dime. Ryan and Shane literally wanted to film one on their fan's dime, even if the majority of their fans are common folks who are struggling in this economy. Of course people don't want to pay to see Shane & friends fly around the world and experience luxurious shit, let alone after they grossly underestimated the worth of 6 dollars, especially considering that 6 USD is more than an average week's wage in many countries, countries that they may even visit on their travels.
To make things worse Shane specifically is known for an "eat the rich" attitude, yet just dropped 50k - more than a lot of people's annual salary - on a wedding with three different dresses for the bride. They yap about "liveable wages", but are obviously able to pay for extravagant weddings and other nice things, all while expecting their viewers to bankroll their unnecessary 25-friends staff.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
Sarah's comment is frustrating because it was very telling as to the mentality of the company. It's not that we dont WANT them to make a livable wage. It's not that we don't understand why they need more money. The mentality of us being too dumb to understand and too selfish to care, is disgusting and out of touch.
Most of their viewers probably DON'T make a livable wage. It's not that we don't want them to make good money. It's that some of us CAN'T afford to help them rn.
This. Plus, we can actually see they are pretty well off by their watches and cars and LA studio, so...
I watched Worth It back when it was first coming out, and it was fun. However, the expensive stuff was not the only focus. Over time, it became clear (to the point of being an open joke on the show itself) that Stephen was getting very focused on the fine dining part. In the end, they ruined the show by reformatting it to make it more friendly to the fancy establishments they wanted more access to. By the very end, it felt like highly produced ads for restaurants that sell caviar by the gram. I think this is what people are remembering and reacting poorly to. Stephen already sold out a good show concept for money and excess, and now the audience is seeing it happen with an entire channel they like.
Steven Lim is the CEO. In my opinion, the smoke he got is deserved, just for leading them into making a terrible decision. By the way, I think their solution is a bad idea, too. Make extra exclusive content to put behind the paywall. Why would I pay just to watch Ghost Files a month early?
I am not part of their business, but how with a channel that big their size with ads,sponsorship, merch, live shows, and a Patron with thousands of people paying 5-20 dollars, do you not have enough money to pay your employees well, so much that you have to create a streaming service keep up with costs.
It just seems like the can’t run a business if that. Tons of UA-cam channels have tons of editors, and make a comfortable living. The Watcher seems like GMM, and they are making tons.
@@mocapcow2933 except GMM has mastered riding the UA-cam trend wave like no tomorrow. Watcher clearly doesn't want to do that, and their content style is very NOT "in" right now.
It was fine watching them eat expensive meals on buzzfeeds dime but using the fans money to buy it would just be a kick in the teeth
As someone who's been watching their content for like 7 fucking years. I'm okay with the apology starting with "we're sorry we didn't appreciate you" because it wasn't about not being able to pay 6 dollars. It was about being discarded and used as a stepping stone with no appreciation because I'm useless to them if I don't have that $6. They just said "Bye! Sorry you chose to get so invested in this you poor nobody!" I'm so bothered not only that they thought this was a good idea, but that they thought of it at all and particularly that Shane went along with it. These are not the kind of people I thought they were. I'm not sure I'm a fan any more.
No your just a fan now, not a creepy parasocial nut job living a fantasy where these complete strangers are somehow your friends because you watch videos they post online. Get a grip lady.
Right!!! At least the TV travel shows are done on advertisers' dime. Ryan and Shane literally wanted to film one on their fan's dime, even if the majority of their fans are common folks who are struggling in this economy. Of course people don't want to pay to see Shane & friends fly around the world and experience luxurious shit, let alone after they grossly underestimated the worth of 6 dollars, especially considering that 6 USD are more than an average week's wage in many countries, countries that they may even visit on their travels.
To make things worse Shane specifically is known for an "eat the rich" attitude, yet just dropped 50k - more than a lot of people's annual salary - on a wedding with three different dresses for the bride. They yap about "liveable wages", but are obviously able to pay for extravagant weddings and other nice things, all while expecting their viewers to bankroll their unnecessary 25-friends staff.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
Seen a few people compare this to dropout. And as people have said dropout still put out full videos for free to advertise the content and membership just gives you even more and for 5 a months dropout is worth it.
I’ve watched them since the buzzfeed days. I realized they were out of touch influencers when they sold a $80 plushy of the puppet. This is just the latest of their cash grabs
It was $80?! Sorry???
@@rachaelb9952 it’s still on the website!!! Technically it is $75 but with shipping it over $80. They only have free shipping on orders over $130 🙃
I think what killed me about the whole situation is that. They did nothing with their pateron, they had a few podcast-es things on it. But really everyone thought the pateron was supporting them. But appareantly it wasn't! I didnt even think about it but your right. Their website will 100% have ads on it! Its expensive to run a website.
Plus they don't have content like that for a website anyway. All this higher production for what? No one asked for it. I hate the comparsion to dropout. Because Dropout was never free. College humor was a big corp comdiean hive before it went under. Watcher/unsloved was 2 guys talking about murder cases on a set. They stopped doing the puppet show? An for what? Make it make sense, also the fans have already began sharing the accounts for the website. An getting cut off by the website because (you are watching from too many deivces.)
Honestly, as time goes on, the more of a bad taste it all puts in my mouth. So yeah. They earned every bit of criticism they get.
as a part of the former watcher audience member, I have never seen such solidarity in a community as I did watching every single person yelling in unison that this was the stupidest fucking idea they've ever had, and the tone deaf classist approach that they took with announcing it only made it infinitely worse. The fact that they didn't consult a single audience member was unbelievable, they could've avoided all of this with a twitter poll
I've personally been watching Watcher since they started after leaving Buzzfeed, and also before with their Unsolved content. I feel like a lot of fans were angry because they were caught off guard, and rightfully so. It kind of feels like a kick in the face when you announce the reason for a streaming site is due to expensive production costs, and then instantly follow that with announcing you're bringing back a very expensive show that doesn't really correlate with the core content people came to Watcher to watch. Along with that, also the fact that a lot of fans are vocal about not really asking for ever increasing production, but more content just between the dynamics of the members.
Personally I feel like in the current economic and streaming (not livestreams, but like on demand content) climate, I simply wouldn't be able to afford another streaming service, as they're is simply just way too many. (I hate to quote Atrioc), but this is seen through mainstream platforms with the amount of people who have become serial churners. People constantly have to cancel and restart and hop around streaming services, because there is just too many for the average person to afford. Which is why I think this was a very bad decision for Watcher, a lot of people just will not see the benefit of spending $6 for a very small catalouge of shows, and a very slow release schedule. If you compare this with Dropout, a streaming site in a similar industry, they are constantly bringing out new shows and epsiodes all the time, and have built up an extensive backlog of content over the past years, which makes their site appealing to customers. Watcher just is not in that position at this moment.
For me personally, I really appreciate them going back on their plans and actually listening to the fans concerns and addressing this. Is a part of that because they realised if they continued it would probably plummet their business? Yes, but I still really appreciate the openess, and acceptance to listen to what the fans want. I think releasing early on the streaming platform before posting for free on UA-cam is a massive step forwards in the right direction, but it's honestly what they should have done from the beginning. (also I'm shocked this was not an incentive for the patreon).
I'm no business person, but I feel like their approach really should have been : Upload shows early on the paid streaming site, and then release the core shows that fans have come to expect, like Ghost Files, Puppet History etc, onto the youtube later. Now I also think they should use the paid platform as an oppurtunity to develop their new more experimental content. You keep these new shows exlusive to the platform, maybe release the first episode for free, and then theres an incentive for people to actually pay for paid service. You keep the core content that people expect, their bread and butter, accesible and free for everybody, whilst also having the freedom to produce new more experimental shows that will fill up a more diverse catalouge of content that makes the streaming sight more appealing to purchase.
I was waffling so long I forgot to say amazing dive, really enjoyed it!!
Fully agree on the last bit. Dial it back on the YT channel but start adding new shows exclusive to their platform. Completely abandoning YT seems like such a dramatic way to go forward and a sure fire way to alienate audiences.
With Steven's food show one of the main issues wasn't just that it wasn't well liked but mainly that they have enough money to travel around the World and eat $10.000 food while having the audacity to ask people with less money than them to give them more money. Then also saying they don't have enough money to pay their employees, ok so where's the money we're giving you going? expensive fish or your workers?
From top to bottom it was such a dumpster fire.
How are they pulling in so much money but unable to afford what they're doing? How are they going to grow an audiance when most people either knew them from buzzfeed or randomly was suggested an episode by youtube? How long before subscription prices go up or they have to add ads because they keep adding staff and unnecessary production? Why would Patron still exist, and who thought it was a smart idea not to grandfather them in? Etc, etc, etc.
Also the apology was such a nonapology. They explained themselves perfectly in the first video. If anything they explained themselves too well.
TV quality means 30 minutes of show with 45 minutes of ads. Why would we want this? We watch UA-cam because we don’t want to watch tv.
How do they think tv makes money? People paying? Well kind of with cable subscription, but they also have tons of ads.
Bruh, Ryan spent $50k on a wedding and they were wearing Car priced watches 😂 They eat good enough
You realize most middle class people spend around 20k-50k on weddings, right? They are super fucking expensive man. Thats not a big number, at all.
Yeah, they’re a scam
@@KS-xk2so the VENUE was 50k, not including anything else
@@KingcloudiiFirst, that rumour was for Shane's wedding. also.... No it wasn't moron. I looked it up and the most expensive that venue can get is like 11k for a night, if its a holiday or a Saturday. People just started quoting that absurd number and ran with it, and dumbasses started repeating it.
I watch them but not as much. Their content hasnt been as good even though its overproduced. They are clearly are not managing the business side well. And literally surveys exist and are cheap.
Well i appreciate their apology but I wont be watching them anymore. Then having a series where a guy eats expensive food and travels is boring.
It's so funny that they are complaining about a living wage to their unfamous fans. I have $6 a month but not for y'all!!!
Honestly, the apology angered me more than the original video. They said both that the fans are everything to them and that they didn't consider how this would affect the fans. 1 of those 2 statements can be true but not both. It is extreme gaslighting.
Honestly this just feels like there is nothing they could have done to win you back and the bridge is burned. Their apology was about as good as it could have been, but it was never going to be enough for you and that's valid.
@@Toastybees If they would have said. "Our priorities were wrong. We were putting our wallets, our nepobaby employees, and our artistic vision in front of you, the fans that give us any chance to have the ability to fulfill those priorities." I would have forgiven them because it would have been the truth. I would even be happier if they came out and said "Listen. We ignored how this would affect you because all you are is dollar signs to us". Because at least then they wouldn't be lying to cover their asses. Like I said, the apology angered me more than when they said what is clearly true. That the only reason the fans matter to them is money.
I see the Dropout comp a lot, but past the surface, they really aren't anything alike. College Humor's best days were far far behind it, IAC shuttered the whole damn company, and the anchor show that kept Dropout alive through Sam Reich buying up what was left, was a D&D actual-play. Dropout always was new IP, and not only in a cosmetic way. CH was all scripted, single-camera sketch-comedy. Dropout is all live-shot multi-cam Improv.
The comp would be: if when Jake and Amir were at the peak of their powers, CH started dropout, told their audience "we're never uploading a comedy sketch to UA-cam again, buy an account to Dropout if you wanna see Ben Shwartz's uncensored scrotum on the season finale!"
And honestly, even that's a better pitch tbh.
I haven't really kept up with these guys since they left BuzzFeed but the majority of the videos I've watched are the ones where they just sit in a room and rank things on a poster board so super high production value lol
TV CALIBER CONTENT 🎉
The problem with Worth It is fans don’t want to watch a couple of guys travel the world and eat food covered in truffles and literal gold while we are struggling to afford groceries. In our homes we are barely able to cover rent for. It’s just insane to basically demand their fans pay for Steven to live like a billionaire. They were all wearing stupidly expensive watches in their video while they complained about not having enough money. Just give me a break.
I do feel bad for Steven. I know he’s the CEO, but there was a lot of anger directed at him, especially at the beginning. As time passed without them responding, more people started to say they all shared the blame, and that Steven isn’t some evil dude. But yeah. I hope he knows that some people were just talking out of anger. I personally think they all just overextended themselves and that isn’t any one person’s fault. They definitely need someone experienced just for finances though
25 staff for what!!!?
They could've at least try what Rhett & Link did with Mythical Society. I'm not subscribed to it but it's really enticing.
Essentially, they didn't pull out existing free shows, which is the biggest mistake the Watcher guys made here.
See. The other approach could have been "guys. We wanna make money. Here me out. Does 5$ sound good?" Like. Just be honest. More people will support you if you're just blunt about it instead of being slimy.
it is fucking wild that there have been 2 videos of 3 guys formerly from buzzfeed making apology videos from a couch
I'm kinda blown away that they announced a "new" show for the watcher platform without ever giving it a test run on youtube? how do they know whether or not Worth It 2.0 is gonna bring in Watcher viewers at all? Seems like a big gamble to me but tbf I'm not a business person so
Its crazy that people think that worth it costs more than ghost files. All three of the meals they end up eating on worth it is probably like less than half of the cost of the booking fee for ghost files. This was an awful idea but trying to point at worth it and going "see! Look how expensive it is!." As if they dont literally live in Hollywood and could produce the entire season of worth it without ever leaving where they are located
I mean iirc they said that the fee would be something most people can pay (which they cant) but then afaik Shane spent 50k on his wedding , it feels like they are really detached
@@Saturnm0ss Tbf 50k on a wedding is not crazy weddings are damn expensive.
At least in this video I didn't see people thinking Worth It cost more, just that they were taking away the free content, putting it behind a paywall, then telling people that as a bonus, part of that money was going to the show where they'll travel the world and try all the expensive things. It's pretty horrendous optics.
@@KetaManiacc I think the 50k was the wedding venue alone...
@@gentlechaos5911 People keep saying that, but that number is a joke. You can easily look up their venue, its like 10k to book it on a holiday or Saturday night, the MOST expensive times, so the idea it cost them 50k is just stupid.
This is the most level headed analysis I've seen thus far.
the ace attorney soundtracks in the background of this dissection was the cherry on top, thank you for your service 😂
I was in the comments early on the first video and it was masks off. People were tearing Steven apart. Of course, I don't really like him or his series. This outcome wasn't the worst, but I still think the bloodthirsty fans would have preferred the prometheus treatment for Steven.
They didn’t stop the puppet they just go through seasons of each show 21:30
The worst part to me is the puzzle pieces on the table. No one was actually working on that puzzle. Someone scattered the pieces across the table as “set design”. At least have a couple corner pieces put together
25 employees in LA, is not a great business decision if your strapped for cash
am i crazy is 3 million dollars among 30-ish employees not that much money?
They make more than 3 million, they do live shows, make merch. That one guy had a 50k venue for his wedding, they all got good houses. It’s obvious they make more than just 3 million
Right?! People completely glossing over their actual expenses and thinking that's their net income is wild.
Just look into Ryan’s Santa Barbara wedding, and Shane’s 55K venue. This was purely a cash grab.
I did. Shane's venue cost like 10k, and you're an idiot. Thanks!
It's very evident to me that these are people whose presence on the internet was essentially "given". Like I'm sure they had work before this that qualified them for their job at buzzfeed, but in the end they were on camera talent on buzzfeed, that got viewers in part thanks to buzzfeed's built in audience, and then took that and went their own way. And I think that really clouded them to like "this audience is here and will always be here because it's always been here".
i think one point to note is that steven haven't released a show since like 2022, so money problems honestly really can't be because of his shows
Imagine making a poor business decision that relies on the good will and trust you’ve built up with your fanbase, only to obliterate that good will and trust in the process
I’m super pissed about shane’s switch up. For a long time shane’s always been a stick it to the man, eat the rich type. Then he went insanely overboard on his wedding, and now he’s trying to squeeze all the cash out of his audience. It’s pathetic and disappointing
Dropout is so different though, it feels like real value when you subscribe to dropout
About the "Dropout Model" stuff. I do think that Watcher TRIED to follow the Dropout model, but failed to identify correctly what exactly the Dropout Model is. Dropout does still have an amount of free content available. They put out the first few episodes of every show for free on their UA-cam. Some of their content still gets uploaded on UA-cam at a later date for audiences to enjoy. Dropout puts out enough free content out there to hook their audience, and then the rest is available on their streaming plateform. And most of all, Dropout has A LOT more shows and content available on their plateform. I believe they actively and currently produce over 15 different shows (not all these shows are out, and they get released at different times during the year). If you look at their schedule, on a weekly basis, they release at least 5 different episodes of the different shows they offer, and often times more than that. And thats without counting the HUGE backlog of content offered on there, since they have been doing this for years.
Same goes for Nebula, which is another subscription service made by and for content creators that has similar success levels to Dropout. Theres hundreds different content creators on the plateform, and each of them have their own exclusive Nebula content thats available only through the subscription, but a lot of them release some amount of content for free on their own channel. For example, With Jet Lag, they have their Nebula exclusive podcast, as well as other content thats gonna be coming soon, but their main show releases a week early on Nebula, and then a week later on UA-cam. And obviously Nebula has an even BIGGER backlog of content available on their service, due to the amount of creators they have on there.
Watcher on the other hand, seem to just want to keep doing what they were doing on UA-cam for free, but now do it behind a paywall. Sure they are bringing back Steven's show, but the rest is just same old same old. Before this whole thing, they were releasing 1 video a week. To me, even if I could afford 6$ a month for another subscription service, it is not worth it to pay that amount for so little content that was previously free, and with no backlog of content that i can go through while I wait for the next episode to be uploaded. I dont mind them wanting to start their own subscription service, but considering they already had a Patreon with a lot of perks, it seems slimy to completely paywall their content, and remove those perks from the Patreon, while also keeping the Patreon up. They could have decided instead to leave patreon, and do what they were doing on Patreon, but to a greater scale on their own service. Or even join Nebula, or have other creators join their plateform, so the audience doesnt feel like they are getting paywalled for the same exact stuff they were previously getting for free
steven is the weakest link of the group, he isn't that funny, he is the CEO (so most of the bad decision is pointed at him), his new show being expensive being a part of it, and *Allegedly* he's kinda racist????. so the mob is going after him is kinda believeable.
i think stanz should make this “finding out about what the current discourse is” style format into a consistent series, these videos have been so enjoyable. it’s like you’re learning about chronically online culture
I kind of think the frustration by Watcher's audience here is as much about frustration about the changing market for content as much as it is about Watcher deciding to paywall their stuff. It sucks when things that are free get paywalled, but also it's not clear if they could sustainably go back to a more monetarily pared down operation and video output without losing viewers. Internet audiences are not coherent groups. There are often substantial silent majorities and silent super-minorities among internet audience-bases that run contrary to what the loudest audience members say. I'd bet money that this walkback is more for PR than for their business plan. I bet they know that a paywall model will make them better off, and are only doing this early access thing to quell the initial negativity and make the transition more smooth. This is just like Hulu when they were constantly adding advertisements to tiers that didn't have advertisement. They just did some minor reshuffling and now they're still among the top 3 highest customer satisfaction rating for streaming services.
Shane and his wife have always been sketchy. His wife got into controversy years ago when Jacklyn glen (a UA-camr) called her out for stealing her content. Shane’s wife literally stole everything in Jacklyn’s video and recreated it scene for scene for her own buzz feed video and tried to pass it off as her own. She never apologized to Jacklyn
I think I’ve watched and “liked” more videos by other creators, dunking on them, than their own stuff. And tbh, I like their stuff…specifically the puppet history, which, while successful, they stopped doing, but want to bring back the most expensive show, which their viewers don’t care about. I’ve also “liked” more of their negative comments than their own stuff. They have tainted even old episodes for me. It’s going to take a lot to win me back.
I don't know if I understand the hate to Steven. I personally would mainly care about watcher for his content; I'm not much of a fan of ghost files or puppet history so it seems a bit crazy that people dog-piled on Steven so much.
“Uhh because he’s the CEO!”
It’s just because he’s not a lot of the fans fav. It’s without good reason and mean
From what I saw it was more that on their podcasts he was complaining about wanting to buy another tesla and some other things about how lavish his lifestyle is from his IG posts while he was saying that they needed more money or their whole company was going to fail.
People like Shane and Ryan for their personalities. Shane's content could be made by anyone
I atleast appreciate you believing them for their cost issues. Other people like moistcritucal just said that theyre making so much money not ecen counting their expenses and employees! And showed it as just them being greedy which it wasnt. They grossly mismanaged their funds and took the extreme step instead of trying to downsize. Theyre stupid yes but not as depraved as some people are making them out to be.
That’s because critikal can’t comprehend making UA-cam videos that aren’t sitting in a room stealing content
Canthz saying end of the video, cue the outro music at 0:45 seconds was clearly a joke but I shook my mouse to check the progress bar and my face when I saw it we're not even 2% through the video 💀
33:04 please remember her and Shane have a wedding with a 50,000 venue and three dress changes for herself. So she really didn’t need to comment 😅
They really went full tv and put it behind a subscription service
My only issue here is caanths and Stanz both incorrectly commenting about Dropout and saying they didn't do the samething. Dropout was former college humor and freely available online. They took it behind a paywall to create the stuff they wanted to create without advertiser influence and it has been fantastic for them so far.
What bugged me the most was that they tried to backtrack and gaslight the audience into thinking that they did not intend to take all their past videos down and hide it behind the subscription service >:(
Couldn't they also do membership only videos and stuff on UA-cam and do some discord role in a community discord for it as well. I feel like that would be a good bump to revenue and keeps your viewers where they already are while getting more monetization out of the platform all your stuff is already on.
They have 13,500 patrons. And it's from $5-$100.
no they have about 5500 paying Patrons. The rest are free members.... jesus guys, this shit takes seconds to research instead of just babbling on about shit and spreading incorrect details further. Tell us next about how Shane spent $55k on his wedding venue, as if that widely reported number isn't also complete hog shit. Do better man.
pretty obv that they are very very disconnected from their audience
this is the first time I'm seeing the video again since when they posted it and honestly it's so weird bc I don't recall hearing a lot of this stuff. probably blacked out from shock or something
I’m eating GOOD!
I knew something was up with watcher when out of nowhere a few months ago they launched a podcast that is ripping off the premise of Podcast the Ride
A big problem for me, touched on in the video, is how inconsistent Watcher is with uploading content I actually want to watch. If Smosh for example announced a streaming service, then sure I'd pay... because Smosh puts stuff out constantly AND their worst content is an 8/10. Watcher definitely shot themselves in the foot.
Hold up spork quirky hahaha that was us, we are cringe but we have fun and enjoy their personalities, well we did. :(
People not knowing Watcher is compromised of former BuzzFeed members (and how that makes a lot of sense for their current decisions) always makes me feel so old, and yet they're usually older than me lmao. Ig it was a specific internet time period lol.
Man... At least the TV travel shows are done on advertisers' dime. Ryan and Shane literally wanted to film one on their fan's dime, even if the majority of their fans are common folks who are struggling in this economy. Of course people don't want to pay to see Shane & friends fly around the world and experience luxurious shit, let alone after they grossly underestimated the worth of 6 dollars, especially considering that 6 USD are more than an average week's wage in many countries, countries that they may even visit on their travels.
To make things worse Shane specifically is known for an "eat the rich" attitude, yet just dropped 50k - more than a lot of people's annual salary - on a wedding with three different dresses for the bride. They yap about "liveable wages", but are obviously able to pay for extravagant weddings and other nice things, all while expecting their viewers to bankroll their unnecessary 25-friends staff.
The cherry on top is that they ALREADY had a (very successful) Patreon and didn't even intend to give their patrons access to their streaming service, the most they did (at least at first) was offer a DISCOUNT. It's very tone deaf.
If only they did a “we are leaving Patreon for our own subscription platform! It will be cheaper because we don’t have to give Patreon a cut of the money anymore.” Announcement.
it seems pretty unfair to say everyone is interested in watcher for ghost files and not worth it when the most viewed ghost files videos have like 8,3m views but worth it which was before they left buzzfeed channel has like 40m views
8:48 I think shane was saying it in an endearing way, but I liked the way you said that we are the most normal ones lol. even if it's not, it also sounded like a cute compliment
I love the worth it boys, but god damn thats an expensive show
It also doesn't make sense to charge someone $6 to make your UA-cam videos ad free when I can make ALL UA-cam videos ad free with a $10 subscription (if I want to continue supporting the creators, so excluding ad-blocks), I know that doesn't take out ad-reads, but like, I can just fast forward 30-60 seconds through those. Not an issue. Definitely not enough of an issue to pay $6 a month