I can tell you that the ways on these machines are assembled to tolerances of less than a micron, and if I remember right they are box ways. Mitsui Seiki puts a lot into their machines in terms of accuracy and durability.
I hear that too! I did some checks with an indicator and everything seems to be spot on, except for X backlash. I will look at that if it turns out to be a problem. This is a linear rail machine. We had all the covers out and checked and cleaned the ways and screws. They are huge and the Z has 3 tracks per side.
@@sunppaa I see these aging (Japanese make) HMC's frequently here on the used market (USA), and they go for cheap because, I assume, that no one can get through many commercial overhead doors let alone garage door, they are so heavy, much harder to move, also maybe power/motor size, but yours was rather smallish on the HP/KW spectrum. The tombstones also seem to be "a dime a dozen" and go for nothing as well. Cool DIY job there though ;o) It'd be cool to have a degree in Mechatronics right now, [it pays fabulously here and is in huge demand due to automation], would really lend itself to maintenance/repair/upgrade duties with these older machines.
@@sunppaa Perhaps ballscrew has lost it's preload on the trust bearings at the ends of the ballscrew in X direction? Had something similar on my worn out FP2-NC that I'm currently rebuilding. Ballscrew pre-tension nut was loose by 0.05mm and the X-slide together with the ballscrew would slide by that distance, creating like false backlash. Ballscrews don't go bad often, fortunately. Otherwise it gets expensive.
Yes, the spindle is very quiet even at max rpm even though its gear driven. Heavier cuts were really silent as well, chips hitting the wall made more noise than anything else.
At 15.50... you should use round "button" inserts to break through the weld.. you can turn them a little at a time and get more work done without breakage. Well worth trying if you plan machining welded steel. 3 or 4 corners as opposed to maybe 10 🤔😉
Well, I guessed Horizontal Boring Mill so I was 2/3 right :), although you could do short line bores with it. Obviously a high volume production machine. Very quiet. I was a little surprised you weren't using coolant, but the upside was I could see the machine working for a change!
As a miller I like the mill....but love that hiab truck....If you had used 6013 rods for the last couple of passes . Mig wire has more carbon in it than 6013
The truck is awesome! And expensive... But it gets the job done fast. I ran out of mig wire and had to use some really old 7018's for the second tombstone, which barely burned at all... We will see how they clean up..
Totally excellent video... I took delivery of a dmg hmc 2 years ago... and I still need to make a 2nd proper pallet for it... the thickness of metal you used for yours looks about right and I intend to use similar.. I will be interested to learn what bolt patters you use, and any particular reason why, I assume you will thread mill it... did you see the need to put dowel pins in the base.... my machine Dmc60h also has a laser tool blum tool setter which is a time saver... you can load all tool numbers in a file along with a g91 and it will take 3ach tool in measure and send it back.... pallet changer did not work on mine... previous owners also disconnected hydraulic system to it to ensure it was not used... I have found through plc check that a faulty sensor they replaced was the wrong one and was not giving the signal to complete pallet change...
I also have to make some tombstones, how long is the Z base from the stone, are you planning to clamp directly on the stone or using a vice? In cheap ST37 plates you can find manny things, once I found some balls from a ballbearing the hard way! Once I got a plate so hard that I gave up on drilling some holes, instead I made a welding table. Has your machine got a toolsetter?
You mean from the stone face to the fully retracted Z? I think it's around 500mm. I'm planning on doin some m12 threads with some small dovel pin holes. I will make fixture plates for each part with mitee-bites, which will bolt on the faces of the stones. Vises can be bolted straight on the stones. I want to clamp/unclamp as little as possible straight on the faces, because they are unhardened. The machine has a setter and actually it has a Renishaw probing system installed as well! It's just missing the spindle probe. I will talk about this soon!
This is awsome. Would you ever do a video abbot getting a machine and stuff to check like electric power? Im thinking abbot getting a machine but at the moment i think i only have 240 volt 3 phase. I dont really know much abbot electrics.
We are lucky to have 400volt 3 phase almost anywhere. This is an old purpose built workshop building, the main wiring is probably ok until about 250amp. Right now I'm using 100amp main fuses. I understand electrics is one of the main issues in running big machines in the States. With that, I sadly really cannot help you much.. I have no idea what it takes to run a machine on 240 volts.
No HPC, which is sad. Also still uncertain about rigid tapping. But I can use coolant thru holders for drills if needed. This machine must have been sold to France when it was new. But I have some Finnish service records from the early 90's, so it did not spend a long time in France.. Weird. Usually schools get their machines all new here.
@@sunppaa I really see no reason why it shouldn't have rigid tapping. The Series 15-M is a very advanced control. They wanted a worthy successor to the already advanced 12-M control so they added a 32-bit microprocessor and the industry's first AI control flow optimization. It was so advanced that they sold nearly every one of them at a loss because very few builders wanted to integrate such an expensive control. The later 16-M had a much simpler architecture.
Can you adapt it to make program in fusion360 for it ? I am new in CNC stuf, and dont know very much about this. I have found meany old machine from 1985-1990 very cheap . some dont even have floppy,
hi sunppa can i ask you about used vmc's market on your country? because from me in italy there is very low market for used machines . what are the prices for a standard iso40 taper with rotary style atc , fanuc control ? i have only experience on fanuc 17t . 18m . 18oi ; mori seiki msg-501 and mori seiki ergo line with celos fanuc interface
Disadvantages of horizontal: Much more difficult to place heavy workpieces onto the tombstone than a table. Much less space (room for large parts) than a vertical, unless you get a humongous HMC. Nice machine though! Are you going to add a cover or something on top of the tombstones ? If not they will probably fill up with chips and coolant.
Ihan milloin mistäkin. Tämäkään ei tullut suoraan koululta, vaan oli ollut läheisellä konepajalla käyttämättä pari vuotta. Käsittääkseni Kuopiossa tämä on suurimman osan elämästään viettänyt. Vaikkakin vissiin Ranskassa myyty uutena..
@@sunppaa Suattaapi olla sama masiina jos Kuopion alueelta tuo. Näyttää tosi tutulta. Joskus yli 5v sitten käytellyt. Tosin vain vähän aikaa, ~2viikkoa.
I'd have gone full 'tard and beveled the heck outta those plates to get unnecessary amounts of penetration But that's why I don't make money doing machine work. :p
Классная вещь!) для нее можно рисовать с душой:))
I can tell you that the ways on these machines are assembled to tolerances of less than a micron, and if I remember right they are box ways. Mitsui Seiki puts a lot into their machines in terms of accuracy and durability.
I hear that too! I did some checks with an indicator and everything seems to be spot on, except for X backlash. I will look at that if it turns out to be a problem. This is a linear rail machine. We had all the covers out and checked and cleaned the ways and screws. They are huge and the Z has 3 tracks per side.
@@sunppaa I see these aging (Japanese make) HMC's frequently here on the used market (USA), and they go for cheap because, I assume, that no one can get through many commercial overhead doors let alone garage door, they are so heavy, much harder to move, also maybe power/motor size, but yours was rather smallish on the HP/KW spectrum. The tombstones also seem to be "a dime a dozen" and go for nothing as well. Cool DIY job there though ;o)
It'd be cool to have a degree in Mechatronics right now, [it pays fabulously here and is in huge demand due to automation], would really lend itself to maintenance/repair/upgrade duties with these older machines.
@@sunppaa Perhaps ballscrew has lost it's preload on the trust bearings at the ends of the ballscrew in X direction?
Had something similar on my worn out FP2-NC that I'm currently rebuilding. Ballscrew pre-tension nut was loose by 0.05mm and the X-slide together with the ballscrew would slide by that distance, creating like false backlash. Ballscrews don't go bad often, fortunately. Otherwise it gets expensive.
Congrads on the new machine hope it serves you well
Yeah, Baby! It's super quiet.
Yes, the spindle is very quiet even at max rpm even though its gear driven. Heavier cuts were really silent as well, chips hitting the wall made more noise than anything else.
It's update time again. @@sunppaa
Nice addition to the shop!
Nice machine!
At 15.50... you should use round "button" inserts to break through the weld.. you can turn them a little at a time and get more work done without breakage. Well worth trying if you plan machining welded steel. 3 or 4 corners as opposed to maybe 10 🤔😉
Very true! I actually just aquired a round insert face mill. I will give that a go when I do the next stone.
The Bridgeport VMC's and HMC's always had roller bearings in the spindles. Nice machine..very reliable ;-)
No perskules 👌👌 Nice looking machine and was the cat in spindel EMP 13? Now i hav to really come to visit there 😁
Nice machine.
Liking it too!
Wow, nice!!!
Well, I guessed Horizontal Boring Mill so I was 2/3 right :), although you could do short line bores with it. Obviously a high volume production machine. Very quiet. I was a little surprised you weren't using coolant, but the upside was I could see the machine working for a change!
Yeah! Sure this machine can do some line boring. About 550mm long. You can fit a pretty large part in it as well.
As a miller I like the mill....but love that hiab truck....If you had used 6013 rods for the last couple of passes . Mig wire has more carbon in it than 6013
The truck is awesome! And expensive... But it gets the job done fast. I ran out of mig wire and had to use some really old 7018's for the second tombstone, which barely burned at all... We will see how they clean up..
Totally excellent video... I took delivery of a dmg hmc 2 years ago... and I still need to make a 2nd proper pallet for it... the thickness of metal you used for yours looks about right and I intend to use similar.. I will be interested to learn what bolt patters you use, and any particular reason why, I assume you will thread mill it... did you see the need to put dowel pins in the base.... my machine Dmc60h also has a laser tool blum tool setter which is a time saver... you can load all tool numbers in a file along with a g91 and it will take 3ach tool in measure and send it back.... pallet changer did not work on mine... previous owners also disconnected hydraulic system to it to ensure it was not used... I have found through plc check that a faulty sensor they replaced was the wrong one and was not giving the signal to complete pallet change...
DMG HMC sounds awesome! Videos please :-)! I will talk more about the tombstones soon!
I also have to make some tombstones, how long is the Z base from the stone, are you planning to clamp directly on the stone or using a vice? In cheap ST37 plates you can find manny things, once I found some balls from a ballbearing the hard way! Once I got a plate so hard that I gave up on drilling some holes, instead I made a welding table. Has your machine got a toolsetter?
You mean from the stone face to the fully retracted Z? I think it's around 500mm. I'm planning on doin some m12 threads with some small dovel pin holes. I will make fixture plates for each part with mitee-bites, which will bolt on the faces of the stones. Vises can be bolted straight on the stones. I want to clamp/unclamp as little as possible straight on the faces, because they are unhardened. The machine has a setter and actually it has a Renishaw probing system installed as well! It's just missing the spindle probe. I will talk about this soon!
New toys Sandvik have developed non coolant cutting tips .Maybe put axis extra on the tombstone .
Koneistamo eiku vaa kasvaa,helvetin hieno nähä että vielä suomenmaalla kannattaa yrittää koneistajana.
THX man for video I veri wainting fot it. :)
Thanks for watching!
This is awsome. Would you ever do a video abbot getting a machine and stuff to check like electric power? Im thinking abbot getting a machine but at the moment i think i only have 240 volt 3 phase.
I dont really know much abbot electrics.
We are lucky to have 400volt 3 phase almost anywhere. This is an old purpose built workshop building, the main wiring is probably ok until about 250amp. Right now I'm using 100amp main fuses. I understand electrics is one of the main issues in running big machines in the States. With that, I sadly really cannot help you much.. I have no idea what it takes to run a machine on 240 volts.
Does this machine have high-pressure coolant?
Just noticed the button labels are in French! Where did this machine come from?
No HPC, which is sad. Also still uncertain about rigid tapping. But I can use coolant thru holders for drills if needed. This machine must have been sold to France when it was new. But I have some Finnish service records from the early 90's, so it did not spend a long time in France.. Weird. Usually schools get their machines all new here.
@@sunppaa I really see no reason why it shouldn't have rigid tapping. The Series 15-M is a very advanced control. They wanted a worthy successor to the already advanced 12-M control so they added a 32-bit microprocessor and the industry's first AI control flow optimization. It was so advanced that they sold nearly every one of them at a loss because very few builders wanted to integrate such an expensive control. The later 16-M had a much simpler architecture.
Can you adapt it to make program in fusion360 for it ? I am new in CNC stuf, and dont know very much about this. I have found meany old machine from 1985-1990 very cheap . some dont even have floppy,
hi sunppa can i ask you about used vmc's market on your country? because from me in italy there is very low market for used machines . what are the prices for a standard iso40 taper with rotary style atc , fanuc control ? i have only experience on fanuc 17t . 18m . 18oi ; mori seiki msg-501 and mori seiki ergo line with celos fanuc interface
Can you link me to the websites for used machines you visit?
Please ask BOOK KEEPER to hire a HOUSE KEEPER !
Disadvantages of horizontal: Much more difficult to place heavy workpieces onto the tombstone than a table. Much less space (room for large parts) than a vertical, unless you get a humongous HMC. Nice machine though!
Are you going to add a cover or something on top of the tombstones ? If not they will probably fill up with chips and coolant.
I did not even think about the stones filling with stuff before your comment! I'm glad I did add a plate on top.
beautiful machines, just be warned that a spindle failure will bankrupt you!!
True dat!!
Really nice machine take a look at Edge Precision he has one and makes some incredible parts
I'm a long-time fan of his!! Awesome work he does on his Mitsu and Integrex.....
nice
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
A tip : you can watch movies on KaldroStream. Me and my gf have been using them for watching loads of movies lately.
@Royal Ronan Yup, I've been using KaldroStream for years myself :D
Mitä kanavaa kautta ostat näitä koulukoneita? Mistä paikkakunnalta tämä tuli?
Ihan milloin mistäkin. Tämäkään ei tullut suoraan koululta, vaan oli ollut läheisellä konepajalla käyttämättä pari vuotta. Käsittääkseni Kuopiossa tämä on suurimman osan elämästään viettänyt. Vaikkakin vissiin Ranskassa myyty uutena..
@@sunppaa sulla alkaa olla todella mukavasti kalustoa! Onko konepajahommat jo päätoimesi?
Well I guessed that it would be big ! Very nice I don't think that it would fit in your basement
Well, after all there is a disadvantage over a VMC, which is the size.. This thing is huge compared to the work area..
holy shit. i've used that machine. looks familiar...
That very same machine? Are you Finnish? If yes, please PM me!!
@@sunppaa Suattaapi olla sama masiina jos Kuopion alueelta tuo. Näyttää tosi tutulta. Joskus yli 5v sitten käytellyt. Tosin vain vähän aikaa, ~2viikkoa.
I'd have gone full 'tard and beveled the heck outta those plates to get unnecessary amounts of penetration
But that's why I don't make money doing machine work. :p
I should actually have gone deeper with my bevels because the welds ended up pretty small after milling..