i got to that part in the video and just want to add that the blabla messages you get from the nikkes are more or less under the same boat as the small interactions you get to increase their bond lvl
I think the argument is more about looks rather than actual character. Women don't have to be drop dead gorgeous to be a likable character, and they don't have to be ugly to pander to people who don't even play videogames. They just need to be characters that people can relate to and enjoy playing as.
The problem with that argument that in practice, most people prefer beautiful forms for attraction at the first sight, sometimes it doesn't even have to be on facial beauty, just look at people amazed by beautiful physiological figures of athletic body or even working figures It applies the question to practice by how men also viewed by women, unless money (and/or power alongside influences) are involved, fat to obese men will always be less preferable then thinner to fit men, it's ingrained in our biological impulses instead of social studies' perceived philosophy
@@ohamatchhams what you say is true, but the real problem is not the sexualization of women in media but rather how most of these sexualization are just shallow cash grabs which many women find offensive and men find uninteresting.
@@ohamatchhams TL;WR I personally like INTERESTING designs, so I believe a lot of people do too, even if they don't realize it. It's not bad if a character is hot when their design has more than that going on for them, but when that's all it has going for it I'm left unimpressed, and I think people should feel that same way, even if I may realize that's what people in the business call "a me problem". That REALLY depends. Personally, I like characters I think it'd be cool to be. And on that token I like chiselled men like kiryu or sett alright, but I REALLY love absolute units like Saejima or even Fate's Herakles. And you'd be hard-pressed to call those guys beautiful. Hell, even for women, I care less (not to say I hardly do, mind) about how a character looks as I care about her personality. To wit one of my favorite women is the Princess from Slay the Princess, who at best looks eerily beautiful and at worst...well the eye of the needle requires a very specific set of tastes that I happen to have. And that's not even getting into lategame spoilers or her other forms. Hell, one of my favorite forms of her is the Specter who's just a skellington in a dress. I think saying that beauty is what catches someone's eye is part of the truth, but I think even more that what TRULY catches the eye is interesting designs. Designs that seem to have something to say or make you feel. And frankly? I'm *personally* rather exhausted by the standard anime babe, inasmuch as that stirred lust in me when I saw kiddy grade the first time when I was a kid and later on Soul Eater while in puberty, but after that the bit got stale. This is less so because I don't find hot characters hot but moreso because it's OVERWHELMINGLY the same fucking body which gives in no small part a creepy stepford wives effect where I feel like it's just a doll with hair and clothes and colors swapped around. Again, this isn't about why I think the design shouldn't be done, it's why I don't find beautiful designs compelling on their own. I'll take a design that stands out, even if it's by having abs over one that just tries to brush my undercarriage, and I don't think I'm alone. And I still think there should be designs like this, but I want more cool, badass designs too. Or weird ones. Hell, Enikk is a voluptuous lady with a presumably pretty face, but just on account of how monochrome and faceless she is I find her design much more intriguing than, say, Jackal. Hell, I'll take Volume, too, since yes she is hot, yes I do enjoy that but more importantly her design is EXUBERANT. I just take a look at it and I think "oh she's certain she's that bitch". And this is to say, I just want something more to draw my eye beyond just tits the size of the anime average and legs that look so skinny they'd probably break from one jump.
@@robbieaulia6462 why women find it offensive when most of them are neither interesting nor good looking baffles me. I get why some men find them "uninteresting" thought. They just have high standards for women or really like immersion, which women with a lot of exposed skin seems to break since they sort of break the aesthetics of the setting.
@@kyarumomochi5146 No. I just don't even understand the comment. I have ASD. Why don't you just explain why it's understandable instead of being gratuitously hostile or assuming hostility in me?
Woman here and you raise really good points! I really enjoyed my time with the video! I kinda want to share my thoughts on sexualized male characters, I hope you don't mind LOL Honestly, I don't think we're all that different from men. Some women like superficial handsome characters, but some would prefer a more fleshed out character. For those preferring fleshed out characters, my evidence is: Tumblr sexyman. Just look at the lineup and their designs. There's Sans, a literal triangle, the damned onceler, you get my point (there are times where they would be sexualized... but i think this just shows that women tend to start sexualizing AFTER falling for a character, but the opposite sometimes happens too). This is true for me too. There are times that I would fall for a character design, but ended up liking another character because they just have a more interesting personality/backstory/character motivation and contributes to the story more. HOWEVER! On the other side of the spectrum, there are some women who just enjoy seeing hot men. I think this can be proven with the success of games like Nu Carnival (BL gacha game), Love and Deepspace (otome game), and Obey Me (otome game). I'm not saying that these games are shallow (except for Obey Me. I'm just speaking the truth, don't come at me) but these games in particular are usually marketed in a way that accentuates the guys' sex appeal, like showing pecs and stuff. Love and Deepspace's marketing really focuses on the fact that you can touch the handsome anime men and tickle them when they're shirtless, things like that. But when you play the game, it has plot and some worldbuilding (but I can't personally say if it's well done or not. I played a bit and dropped it because it's not really my thing). The main focus are the guys and how beautifull/handsome they are, and how you can interact with them, that's for sure. TLDR, men and women aren't that different when it comes to this. Some women sees a hot guy and that's all it takes for them to simp, while some needs more than that. But again, that's just my personal opinion. If there's a woman reading this and would like to add their own experience/thoughts, please do so! Otherwise, I hope this is insightful? Thanks for taking the time to read this!
@@Sleepy_aku First I want to put up a disclaimer. I have nothing against Obey Me fans, I used to like it too. I get why someone would like the game and stick with it, and I love the VA events that they held every once in a while. If you're an Obey Me fan, nothing wrong with that! Continue to like what you like and don't let a stranger from the internet stop you! I just personally think that in terms of story, it's a bit lacking in substance and feels very lackluster. The lore feels like it's trying to go somewhere, but it doesn't and it feels bogged down due to heavy slice of life filler moments. They also keep teasing that the characters will have more under the surface but so far I've yet to see it (and I don't have the patience to keep going LMAO). Not to mention the uneven character spotlight. This is hell particularly if you're aiming for the non-demons, like I did with Solomon and Simeon. I figured that if I raise my relationship up with them by constantly using their cards in battle, I'll have more of their story, but I got none. Just crumbs 😭 TLDR The game can be fun at times and I love the VA events, but I don't see myself continuing Obey Me for its story and characters. They feel very surface level, lackluster, and the lore feels lacking in impact. If you disagree though, feel free to let me know! I'm all here for a healthy discussion of medias
@@ivana2609 ah I see I see, also it’s alright XD, I really was just curious, no big deal I’m shit at writing comments so I hope you don’t mind just reading me yapping for paragraphs hshdbdbdn Ok yeah, with my experience with the game’s story thus far I can definitely get behind that. Even though I wasn’t THAT far into the chapters I think I have gone through at least one serious “arc” and almost immediately after that they diverged back to becoming a sitcom with all the shenanigans LMAO 😭 (completely forgot they’re supposed to have more character under the surface w that) Feels like the game is just supposed to be lighthearted and not to be taken too seriously imo, personally I didn’t mind it, I think that may be why I never really had a problem w the game’s lore n character Not continuing for the reasons you listed is very understandable too, thanks a lot for the reply and I really hope this reply’s understandable enough HAHAHAH 😭😭
Ahhhh the tumblr sexyman. To this day tumblr remains a well of weird and wisdom. I remember someone making a post and thread about sexual looks. "Does anyone get turned off when the design is so obviously sexual to the point it's like body horror and you can't get turned on anymore?" Or something like that. I love the people who agreed and brought up examples of their experiences. Most of which about the gigantic deformed anime booba
@@Sleepy_aku Yeah your comment is very understandable! Dw about it! I do agree that Obey Me is definitely the game to just have fun and not overthink things (like I did LOL). It's good that you don't mind it and find enjoyment in that! Hope you can continue to find happiness through the game and have fun with it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Obey Me and for having this discussion with me
If u ask me, sexualization's empowering someone when there's more to them than that. If the ONLY thing about them is that they're attractive, then its demoralizing.
It’s not the sexualization that’s demoralizing them, it’s the damn writing. That’s like blaming the gun for killing a person instead of blaming the assailant.
There is a chase about how someone being more better looking can affect a persons first opinion on them but the thing that either makes them a good or great character or a bad one is if they are written in a good way or have depth.
@@danielantony1882 LIke I said, if its only the sexualisation thats being added to a character, then they're bad. If there's more to them, like the recently released Yinlin from WWA, then its alright.
I do wonder if Neir:Automata started this "Look sexy dressed charcters in an apocalyptic world", to "Oh my God this game changed my life with it's writing" type of game. Given that both games talked about, "Stellar Blade" and "Nikke" gave that smilar description to Nier:Automata and might be inspired by it.
Oh, if you wanted deeper stories for Nikke then you're looking in the wrong spots. Advise stuff is meant as momentary gags and quick bite sized moments and for upgrading stats. The proper development you wanna see is in the main, relationship stories and event stories. About half of all stories and interactions outside of that are split between just slice of life interactions and seeing an interesting interaction take place. Just as well if you want to see Rupee's whole shopping gimmick get turned into one of the most wholesome character traits check out the Christmas event she has with Anne. It ain't that Nikke doesn't have shallow characters, but most do have layers if you look where the game lets you. Also I really appreciate that you took the time to actually look into the content and dog for the positives. Shows you don't really have malintent when researching stuff.
True true! I haven't played much of Nikke but I geniuinely think that most of the characters are super nice and unique, which I especially see in the main story and events, like dawg I almost cried sometimes because you can geniuinely get attached to them. The fanservice does throw me off at times, especially because it's so obviously male-gaze centered and I'm a woman, but on the other side the art is so beautiful, the voicelines fit, the stories are nice, the gameplay is fun...
I feel if the sexualization makes sense for the character such as bayonetta a confident and charismatic adult women it’s great! But if it doesn’t fit the character’s personality or background and is only there to tittalate the viewer then it only takes away from the character.
@@Timmy-mi2ef Just outfit, no - it can't. But if character starts acting like anything but themselves just to be "sexy" then it's just putting character into trash. There are many ways to be sexy, writers should choose special sexy way fitting their characters - like spice for food. You can use pepper for gingerbread, but it may not fit cheesecake...
Agree. Nobody had an issue with Bayonetta, she is a fun character with tons of personality, her sexuality being an integral part, and she knows it. In contrast, characters like Eve and 2b are a bit creepy because they seem just like dolls, sexualized for no in-universe reason and seemingly unaware of this.
Not really, even a cherry is important to the compotition of a cake, if you have a cherry where it doesn't need the cake would be (less points) in the quality
Maybe, but not EVERY female character needs to be some super in-depth character. Hell, Lord knows many male characters aren't deep. How many action heroes are 1 dimensional
Not exactly, there's no one size fits all. Fanservice may also detract from a game to some since say the game is trying to be all philosophicsl then you add boobs, which some may enjoy either way and say that it's extra and makes things hilarious, but others might not.
@@Cecilia-ky3uw If the game has good philosophical talk, a little ass here and then will not detract from that. Unless it specifically talks about fan service and sexiness being bad, while also utilizing it to draw people in, nothing of the philosophical meat will be lost through a bit of eye candy.
"Came for the *plot,* stayed for the plot." I think this is a pretty common sentiment across a lot of actually good "light-ero" games. Personally, I am never really bothered by gratuitous fanservice of male and female characters. Stuff like that hasn't ever influenced my judgement -- for the better or worse -- of the overall product. I suppose that is why I am always confused when someone says something like, "Oh, the over-sexualization of this game's characters really bring it down." because it doesn't make sense to me how a quality experience and having sexy characters are often thought to be mutually exclusive. Anyhow, good video.
it brings it down when the fanservice interrupts the experience and the player isn't into it i can handle most fanservice, but when a show i'm watching stops just to insert it, it turns me off because i consume media for the stories and characters, not to be horny 😂
@@lenaalt2387 You can look at big butts and big boobs or muscle behemoth dudes without being horny. But in what context would you say the fanservice interrupts the experience?
Some people have their own taste on how women look that's why sometime it turns ppl off, last year i've almost install nikke bcs i think maybe the storyline is great and the gameplay looks fun but after seing more and more character got released it turn me off the fan service is getting more and more wilder and more overexagerated b00b and a$$ physic its like watching a plastic attached to their body and the gameplay also highlight the physic, for example the pink bunny suit that i saw yesterday from ads and that new released character(i think) that one loli that show her feet, its just fell weird to look at that, it came from normal sexualized character to overlysexualized and fetish reliever character
Because in most cases these characters are made as sex object to be sold. It doesnt help the secualization clashing with the story trying to be told is another factor.
Well, I don’t. I get bored of bad writing. You can’t have too much fan service, only bad writing that doesn’t know how to utilize it properly so it bores you.
I enjoy fan service as actual fan service (where you see your favorite characters back or a certain reference or callback to something else or giving your favorite characters the best character arcs) more than trying to make fans horny
Sexy characters are great but sexiness is also fleeting. It's one thing for a character to be hot but if I'm supposed to engage with them further and remember them, then there must be more to the character. I would even argue that good characterization makes a character even sexier.
You apparently not played Nikke's events (which all can be replayed from the commander's office) like Overzone, Red Ash, Scarlett's event, or the full bond stories each Nikke has when they reach certain affection levels, for example Diesel or even Soline.
Just after editing this video, I got some really good pulls including Crown. Just got to chapter 6 last night and I'm really interested to see how the world and story are going to unfold.
@@Haedal_VTI think the quote I see thrown around quite a bit is "came for the boobs/ass, stayed for the depression." Also something unrelated to the characters and Story. Soundtrack slaps. (Edit, stubbed and waiting for thy next video)
@@Haedal_VT 2 weeks later, hope you are still enjoying the game. If you manage to get 2 memory films to unlock previous events in Archives, I highly recommend going to Red Ash --> Over Zone. They both are major events that will give you a tremendous insight in the world of Nikke. My best friend got me into this game, and I've only been playing for 3 months yet it has to be the most enjoyable game I've played haha. Storyline is absolutely worth it.
I've played Control and the Horizon games, and I genuinely had fun. It didn't matter to me that Jesse and Aloy weren't beyond supermodel levels of attractive. I found them enjoyable because they were witty and badass, and the stories they were experiencing were intriguing.
I watched the 3 hour Moon Ch. documentary on Korean feminism and gacha drama and the takeaway for Nikke seems to be that gender relations are so negative that the very idea of "being nice to women (and people below you) is beneficial to everybody" (the main plot thread of nikke) is actually progressive and subversive over there. Crazy to think about.
Same here. I'd actually had the game installed on my phone for a week or so before watching Moon's videos, and they actually got me to try the game, and I feel like having that background knowledge really added a lot to the experience. It sounds utterly ridiculous from a Western perspective to say "oh yeah, in the game your special ability is treating women (Nikkes) like people," but with the background context of this rigid, hierarchical society, where everyone is being inexorably crushed by the layer above them, it actually makes a lot of sense.
Sorry to disturb your happy imagination, but Nikke's main theme is "the persecuted soldiers on the front line and the self-proclaimed patriots in the rear who persecute them behind their backs." This is not a story about the treatment of women.
@@hp0635 First of all, I'm curious if that's something that's been explicitly stated by the developers, or just your opinion. Secondly, a work of media can have multiple interpretations. Just because you see a bear in an ink blot test, doesn't mean that someone who sees a dog in the same ink blot is wrong. Also, I would consider it a compliment to Nikke's writing that people can come to differing conclusions about its central theme. It's a sign that there's plenty to dig into and think about.
@@internisla The translator isn't working as expected. I can only tell the rough opinion. 1. I am Korean, and there are many scenes of Nikke discrimination reminiscent of the insults suffered by soldiers in Korea. It's not just similar; the keywords are specifically the same. This is clearly intentional. In addition, I would like to say something about the relationship between Nikke and ordinary commanders, and the relationship between soldiers and executives, but the translator does not work properly. 2. It is true that it can have many themes, but at least it is not a theme about the treatment of women. The reason is simple. This is because Ark citizens discriminate against Nikke. The Ark citizens are not a group made up entirely of men, and there is no description of any special discrimination between them. Ark citizens all discriminate against Nikke, regardless of whether they are male or female. And the discrimination Nikke experiences is not at all reminiscent of discrimination against women, and is much more intuitively reminiscent of discrimination against soldiers. If you claim that this work is a story about the treatment of women just because Nikke is all female, then you can argue that modern warfare FPSs feature only men appears and are all killed by machine guns so these games are a story about the treatment of male. It's the same as doing. 3. I don’t think Nikke’s story is good. However, I also respect other opinions.
One has to remember that not all feminists think alike. Korean feminists have different ideas about how feminism should work than say, a russian feminist, who would have different feminist ideals than an ethiopian one, and to an american one, and to a british one. Different cultural tastes come into play here.
You’re too unbiased. You’re analyzing the problem separate of your own viewpoint. This is extremely rare in the current year. I suggest you try more Nikke. The story gets wilder the more chapters you complete. It helps revisiting the old event stories as well.
Nobody is unbiased in this world (me included), but the video was very level headed and without standard shallow emotional response I was honestly expecting (I don't know your channel). You approached the subject from an actual scientific perspective and kudos for that.
@@azradun3903 Bias control is a genuine skill, and most critical thinkers, analysists, journalists and scientists must exercise it regularly to remain objective. It's the act of playing devil's advocate in a way, or essentially arguing against your own personal beliefs in the aims to be a impartial party to the subject. Suspension of personal judgement for further investigation is necessary to many fields, though it's not perfectly inforced. Its definitely a doable thing, not indefinitely, most likely, but in many instances. So yes, people can be unbiased, but it takes active control, awareness and internal dissection of ones own motives, intellectual honesty, full self-disclosure, awareness and of course, a knowledge of common bias traps to avoid. Definitely possible though, yet genuinely uncommon, especially in the context of UA-cam.
Im not feeling like grinding myself to hell or wasting a lot of money to progress tho. I like Honkai Star Rail I'm genuinely interested in the characters and history but I dropped it because the predatory essence of gacha games
As long as sexualisation does not come at the cost of Character Fire force is the worst case of this where a character is sexualised so often (Shes often put into posistions in where she is losing so she can have clothes ripped and stuff, in this case sexualisation makes her seem weaker. Kill la kill is a good version ,The characters are heavily sexualised but it does not come at the cost of character development
On the other hand, Fire Force has a female character with good muscle tone that doesn't go overboard. Too often when you see a strong female character, they either don't seem to have muscle tone at all or they go to bodybuilder extreme. Maki was a refreshing and gorgeous change from that.
I agree, and sexualisation helps to bring interest to something. Gojo and Makima are both hot characters but people end up enjoying them because they are good characters beyond just their looks. Eve from Stellar Blade only appeals to people based on her looks as she is a weak character, and the girl from Fire Force is kind of a victim of sexualisation as the story itself becomes a slave to it...
I mean fire force did have maki and some of the other female characters who were actually really decent Maki especially with layers upon layers of subverting how you think her character would be, it makes me think tamaki was just added for the sake of filling out the fanservice editor checklist
I really liked Baldur’s Gate 3. As a women I like to look pretty/hot/cool and I like pretty/hot/cool characters of male and female variety. However I don’t want things to be sexualized to the point it’s ridiculous. When I have a piece of armor and place it on a male companion it looks cool it doesn’t become two pieces of scrap metal when I place it on a female character. When I have a skimpy outfit on my female character I can place the same garb on the male character. True gender equality right there. There’s definitely fan service but it’s in the context of romance when the characters are trying to be appealing and not weird voyeuristic shots at serious moments. The only questionable thing I find is the fact that Lae’zel underwear flavor text claims to be practical when it’s the second to last practical one out there only above a incubus.
While I did enjoy BG3 from a gameplay point of view, none of the female companions are beautiful. Sure, they look like normal women, so they're not ugly either (aside from the frog). It goes beyond that, it's impossible to create a beautiful female character and I tried. That doesn't seem to be a problem for male characters though. Apparently women get really thirsty over Astarion. The worst part is that nearly all of them are some degree of insufferable. The one character that's wife material is Alfira and she's not even playable. I think Shadowheart is the most picked romance companion because she's the first one you meet, has access to heals without respeccing and is the least bad option. That's a trait shared by male characters. I can't think of a single male character in that game I'd enjoy having a beer with.
@@antoineguerrier2965 Alfira is pretty but I think Shadowheart is just as pretty comes down to personal preference I think. Visually my favorite girl is mussel mommy Karlach but to each their own.
I like adventuring bums who look like they will crawl through feces for coin. Who are drawn with all the crap a dungeon bum carries, like a rope, a shovel or even just a backpack. Armour as mail is a mail hauberk and nothing else. Character survival should be the highest priority. I liked how the stooges in Dungeon Meshi had backpacks, bedding etc. No lights though.
@@antoineguerrier2965AD&D could be very you against the world. The other bums are the only reliable thing you got. I draw the line when I can't figure out why a group of bums are even together.
After I’ve learned to care about my own body and learned other peoples’ attitude about bodies, I’m actually okay with the sexualization of characters as long as it’s fair. Others’ opinion on melons and pears won’t change my mind about going to the market when they’re on sale. Devs know what sells and they’re selling. Gamers are buying. Game recognizes game, and gamers recognize games with things they like. Seggs sells. Nikke, now that I think of it more than I did back then, has a great and compelling story that has managed to pull me in. I’ve even related to some characters I didn’t think I would. I initially downloaded it because of Anis, now I keep playing it because of the actually powerful heart tugs and lessons in the story…and Anis 😭
me personally when it comes to hot men I have MASSIVE crushes on Zhongli and Xiao from genshin impact and Dan Heng from Honkai Star Rail What can I say I like hot men who aren't really human as they appear
To put it simply, no, it doesn't. The only people I've ever known to think less of a character for their sexually appealing aspects are the very people who howl about "objectification" and call characters from properties they know nothing about "sex dolls with no personality"; in other words, the very people who make the titular claim.
It really dosn't need to be deeper than hot characters are nice and easy on the eyes. It is ok to just have nice things for the sake of them being nice. They don't need to justify them being hot by having ocean deep story arcs and personalities. It helps to make the character even better, but it is not a sin to be hot or pretty, just like not all ugly characters need to be evil. Not every game I play have to be the deepest examination of human condition, sometimes I just want to have fun.
Did people seriously complain about Aloy’s peach fuzz? 😐 They DO realize that all humans have hair and men just have darker, thicker hair… right? That not all women are constantly caked in makeup… RIGHT?
Here's the thing, from my perspective as a bisexual woman, I can quite like sexualized female characters(love your intro btw)... if they're actual characters. There are plenty of games or shows where I can be like "hell yeah she's so cool and hot" and enjoy it (It can even heighten the experience lol) However many games and other mediums take the route of objectifying female characters rather than just sexualizing them, and at that point, they aren't a "cool character who can step on me" or an "adorable person who deserves to be loved" (etc yall get it). Rather, they end up just being sex symbols with little to actually care about them for. As much as it hurts to say, titties are meaningless if I can't care about the person with them. At that point, the most I can do is appreciate good art. Similarly I dont get the hate for the horizon zero dawn character (though I haven't played the game yet) But she seems pretty cool hunting robot dinosaurs and all that, and certainly doesnt look unnatractive (while also being more immersive to the setting) I can agree some western media has an annoying aversion to sex, but I feel the whole issue is blown out of proportion. What most people want are good characters, not objects of desire. Good characters are often inherently desirable and most people are fine with/enjoy them being sexualized somewhat, but within the bounds of them as a character/person, rather than treating them like dolls. Finally, I do think some of the issue comes from the difference between how male and female characters are treated, as mentioned in the video, fully clothed men with good outfits that portray their character are hot(so hot 🥵). But they don't feel like they were forced into those outfits to show off for an audience, rather they seem like actual outfits the character would wear. I want more of the same for female characters, lemme see a woman in full dress uniform, make female characters that show a lot of skin in a way that feels like a real and fitting outfit, and not like a big arrow pointing to boobs (I'm already looking I don't need my attention directed to them lol). I would absolutely argue those genshin impact men are sexualized, but it's done in a better way. Also in general we need more male sexualization please 🙏. Overall though this was a good video and fun to watch.
Finally a bit of sense in the comment section. I hate when people call it "puritanism" or "purse-clutching" when you try to explain the difference between sexualisation and objectification. Objectification is about breaking the immersion and putting a character's pornographic appeal before good writing, their background or simply logic. It operates in the same way porn does storywise - every chararacter trait or story behind them becomes something to accomodate the action part. It doesn't really matter how plumbers, mechanics and family members get into the doing, the plot in the beginning exists solely for the purpose of setting up the premise. So, everything about the character loses its meaning when the character is objectified, because it becomes an accomodating trait, a kink in a way. A vampire woman arc is no longer about vampire lore or the horror of vampirism, but a fetish, a porn category, Big Titty Vampire Dommy Goth Mommy whatever. Even her own expression of sexuality loses its meaning, because the entire object that she symbolises is inherently sexual, the control that she has over her sexuality is not important and it's not focused on enough, because, again, all her character traits are subordinated to her pornographic appeal.
@@klauserji this is a false equivalency. book covers and blurbs are like movie trailers: they're what draw you in and the same book can have multiple covers, but once you start reading the book, the book cover doesn't matter anymore. just like how once you start watching a movie, the trailers don't matter anymore. character designs are different. unlike book covers, a character's design is an important aspect of them. it can inform you about their personality, backstory, and is what comes to mind when you think of that character. it's not like a book cover. not to mention, the original statement is about not having prejudice and giving things/people a chance before you arrive at a conclusion. so, "don't assume a character who looks bad is bad" or "a character who looks good is good", etc. it's a different type of judging.
Regarding examples where sexualization adds to the story, I’ll dig my own grave by championing Looking Up To Magical Girls as the prime example of this.
I am so fucking sick of this goddamn discourse. Whether or not they’re sexy has nothing to do with wether or not they are written well or if the gameplay is engaging and fun. Attractive characters are just that, attractive. People need to stop moralizing how beauty is depicted. Who gives a fuck if their sexualized? Who gives a fuck who it “empowers” or “demoralizes”, just fucking pick what you want and shut up. This whole issue isn’t about women or sexualization. It’s about marketing, social media, and people being pretentious and petty. I’m sick of it.
When done respectfully it can add value. I like aesthetically pleasing, sexy, cute characters who also have their own wants, desires and personalities. Sexiness itself isn't bad. It's when their just a sex object that it can become a problem. When the character is just there to be an object for people to fap at then it degrades them, They're simply there for people to lust over. They're an object, a sexy prop for people to stare at, not a character. And for some it makes them think that people might be like that too, an object to sexualize. At least subconsciously, it normalizes it. Sort of dehumanizes people. If our culture wasn't like it is then one note, fap material wouldn't be that much of a problem. We live in a culture that does objectify people, mostly women but also men with lesser frequency. If you object to that then you must likely haven't experienced it personally, you might even do it to others yourself without thinking about it. That's what makes it most insidious. Its hard to accept you might be part of a problem when its so ingrained and normalized into a culture. Turn that uncomfortableness that makes you feel into something productive, be more conscious of the society and culture around you. Its okay to be attracted to others, but respect them as fellow human beings, and always keep in mind that they don't owe you sex. Always ask for consent before touching people. Be respectful both in your words and actions. Think about how your words might make people around you uncomfortable. Don't objectify people, respect them.
_"Its hard to accept you might be part of a problem when its so ingrained and normalized into a culture."_ Yeah, that's exactly why it's so hard for extremists like you to understand why your anti men propaganda is so wrong. ;)
Funny how you mention Nikke and Stellar Blade in the same Breath and context because as far as ive heard sgift up made games like nikke to be able to one day make games like stellar Blade and here we are they did it congrats to shift up. Also thanks for talking about Nikke (never underestimate the sexy boob game to tell a dark and depressing story ) and using the soundtrack in the beginning. I've grown to love your videos more and more.
Its a very simple answer, yes men like looking at at beautiful women in games, but its not what makes us stay, example tifa and jill from final fantasy games are drop dead gorgeous but their looks are not what makes people like them so much its their personality and great character development throughout their story, heck lulu from final fantasy 10 is dress like a goth beauty, and a dress that show all the good stuff, but even though her design to be sexy she is a great character that struggles with move on from her past, and puts on a brave front to hide her sadness, its not all about looks but how they're portrayed and caring themselves.
Take Lightning from 13 as a comparison. She was cute but was written like a carboard cut out. Even when they added cosplay for the third game of that series, that still didn't make her more appealing.
@@hxntaiguy3318 I just ended the series out of curiosity to see how the story would end but I never cared for lightning. Noel, Caius and even Yuel were more interesting to me 😅.
@@adriansanmartin5773 yeah I want lie and say lighting was the most interesting character out there, it was basically female cloud without the charm, but I still enjoyed the series I know people think the 13 series sucks but not to me.
Lulu's outfit is so stupid though. Not only does it clash with the character but it just makes no sense at all. It's like she just found it floating in the air & jumped inside of it. There's nothing keeping it on her at all. It's worse than Christie's jacket from Dead or Alive 4 but at least Dead or Alive 4 was advertised as being fairly pornographic.
For me, my main issue with a lot of fanservice stuff is that it is so often used in the most shallow and superficial way possible. Like so many other tropes, it is a tool in the writers toolbox and is one of the most misused out there. The most I could compare it to is horror oddly enough. It is similar to the jump-scare, being a cheap and easy method to evoke an instinctual reaction out of the player rather than actually putting in the legwork to craft something deeper that sticks with you. One particular issue I see so often with fanservice is that how the plot is forced to be in service of the horny rather than the horny being in service of the plot. Like, how often do you see whole essays in a story trying to justify a certain horny element contrary to how nonexistent fanservice elements is instead used for things such as character growth or advancing the plot. One easy way I can see if the fanservice is pointless or obstructive is to ask "Are they a good characters because of the fanservice or in spite of it?" I think the only time that I can pull at the top of my head where fanserivce was used in a constructive manner for the plot was in Suisei no Gargantia, specifically the second dance scene between the main character Ledo and the love interest Amy. This was where Amy, decked out in a belly dancer outfit, did a private dance for Ledo set to a calm flute melody and auroras in the background. This serving as a big turning point in their relationship as Ledo awakens to emotions he didn't know he had for Amy and it just ends up being a sweet moment between the two. The focus was on the characters, the sexy was just a vehicle for that. Though even with all this said, they had to use a more standard fanservice scene to act as as setup for this one.
Hoooly you cooked hard with this one... thoughtful opinions that make sense while being an entertaining video. Hope you get skyrocketed by the algorithm.
It's important to know that outer societal pressures are also a factor to why majority of these games can be hypersexualized. East asia mostly comprises of very conservative countries, countries that still hang on to the belief of numerous traditional family values with slow progressivism. While it isn't entirely wrong to think in such a way, men are often pressured heavily into these norms that men should actively search out a good wife and women should get married as soon as possible. Almost every aspect in life as asians are towards getting better in life until you are rich or marry someone rich or have a family legacy of sorts. This leads back to pressure. Often groups of men here seek out the notion of the "perfect" woman for them, even if it means searching it in something as simple as a manga panel. It's why "otakus" tend to be a stereotype, why the perception of love tends to be skewed here, why sex is both morally sought after in a wed bed and immorally desired in a red light district. The very notion of showing your friends a hot anime grille with huge honkers is much more normalized and not excessively shunned upon. Eastern devs can do just that because "why not?" and "I just like girls" and people wouldn't mind that. It rakes in money, kills boredom and gives people the alternative of getting aroused neuron activation than watching pr0n out in the open. This is also hilariously true on the other side of the spectrum. With the surge of games like Genshin Impact a few years ago and the fact BL exists, it's becoming clear that male characters can make bank in the eastern market predominantly comprised of men liking strictly women in their games. If chiseled abs and marble cut jawlines are present in your game, expect females wanting in on the action. Many cultures of women here love a good yaoi as much as the guys like yuri much definitely more towards guys who they can constantly write fanfiction of, like cookie cut K-Pop or TV series with corny romance plots. The pressure of finding a guy you like substituted by yet another 2D character. Bonus if you're some bisexual fella or a respectable cultural guy/gal and you're basically surrendering your wallet. Truth is, people make what they like, people play what they like. Sexualizing a characters account for the market, the culture and especially the interests of it all. Sometimes it's even a ploy to get people invested into your game for other aspects of your game like good writing, designs, personalities. Sexualization feels more like an added thing that's indicative of a developer's intentions and it's up to the player whether they're comfortable with it or not and to interpret accordingly. It's not going anywhere anytime soon as long as characters are designed well enough to warrant them a tag in R34. I'll take my cute degenerate submissive femboys and thicc thighed women who could step on me any day.
Excellent analysis I agree, it’s just something that’s there, depending on how it’s done. It’s either something that is, in most cases, neutral, or actually enjoyable. The only case I find it detracts is Nikke, which overdoes it in my opinion. Anyways yeah, big jigglies and soft skin attract attention, and actual meaningful substance keeps it. And I’m perfectly fine with that.
And that's the problem people talk about not knowing how to sexualise men but don't ask women and even argue with them when women disagree. I saw a post about what men thunk is sexualised (a man wearing normal fitting clothes) vs what women actually find as fanservice (a man in a very tight suit from head to toes. Also look up nu carnival and oni onsen. I find the mention of chiseled jawline funny. I notice mostly men use that term and use it as a main attractive things
I just left a very similar comment under the video, but think what isn’t spoken about enough in these communities is the power imbalance when it comes to sex. And how that loops into sexual content. Artists have a very real responsibility when doing artwork of women because left unchecked, it can subliminally perpetuate sexual expectations and build dangerous desires. Women are typically (not always, obviously) perceived and depicted as weak and commodified. Submissive. And this is a feeling that bleeds over outside of film, games, shows, or whatever. Whether you agree or not, there are hundreds of thousands of men who view women this way. Whereas an attractive man is typically depicted as dignified, independent. dominant. And I think the push in the west to be more careful when sexualizing the female form is in a joint effort to recontexualize how, society on the whole, sexualizes the female form. To give women the power and control over how they are perceived. Rather than the through the “”””Male Gaze””””. And until that standard is adequately deconstructed and women are perceived in a safer context, it’s important you present sexual content incredibly carefully and consciously out of respect for women who face abuse and assault from it.
@@sugarzblossom8168 It's the whole perceptive barrier kinda thing. If you barely have a diverse crew of developers or find out about people's interests the opposite of your gender, chances are, devs will just resort to what they know from their common peers. Societal pressure hampers this even more when guys and gals don't know how to even properly interact with each other.
tbf, Azur Lane is very sexualize because the way it's monetized is different from most gachas most gachas don't give a lot invocation materials, while Azur Lane is very generous when it comes to most resources besides the "premium" money, so the devs decided to put the monetisation in the skins rather than make people pay to get more girls or be stronger faster so they have to make characters hot enough so the player prefers / loves some of them and eventually spend some money to get new skins for his favourite ships
Azur Lane is the only gacha I play because I like the character designs, don't feel like I'm being ripped off, and don't feel that the game will shut down soon and waste my money.
Two things: small note for some people, women still CAN look mid or even ugly in games too, especially if most of the men are. Aloy is fine (not ugly anyways) having realistic features and doesn't mean other games can't still have supermodels (Eve is literally modelled after a Korean model so she may be a bad standard but she's not unrealistic. And two: look at vtubers. Yes they make their models to grow an audience and sell themselves as a character (personality is so important though, a lot of the biggest ones are just entertaining, and some happen to be stacked). But they also are a representation of the person, usually when they have big honkers it's because the person behind the model either HAS big honkers or they LIKE that look, it's not shallow sexualisation to make your OC hot if you wanna feel hot yourself. But also for example, Matara Kan in Vshojo, she had a pretty standard anime level hot character design but not really sexualised, and actually stated she did not want to make her chest any larger. Then she got a new model in a very non revealing sweater but her assets had grown considerably. She didn't do it to make money, she had a VERY established fan base before Vshojo and then a ton of new Vshojo fans behind her. She did that because assumedly the artist likes drawing that and she thought screw it, why not have bigger milkers? Besides this, she really doesn't lean into fan service with lewd or dirty talk or bits, she's seen by her community as a wine mom and like actually mother not mommy. Sure some people will see her as a sex object but that goes for any hot person and even a lot of not hot people and that's on the viewer for objectifying. Anyways there's a recent ironmouse quote that most of the vtubers with big booba, HAVE big booba in real life. Anecdotally I haven't analysed the chest but every single vtuber I've seen irl male or female has been cute or hot, surely the "ugly men pretending to be hot girls" are out there somewhere but not any vtuber I've ever seen.
As a bi woman that loves playing games, sexualization of female characters makes me uncomfortable - if I see that it is not a part of their personality, but just designed to please viewer. I enjoy female characters that are sexy and like to be sexy (Bayonetta for example). But when it is nudity for sake of it and it has nothing to do with personality, I feel like that kind of female characters was created just to objectify them, and anything else comes second. I can't relate to them, cause I don't want to feel objectified too. So I just avoid such content But the video was interesting, thanks for good quality content!
I had a relevant experience with a gacha game and my girlfriend (bi and pan respectively )used to play: SNOWBREAK. At first we loved the setting and the character designs, and while we agreed that the story was kinda bad, all characters were cool and interesting with very accentuated personalities, they were attractive but in a dignified way, there was fanservice but it was optional side content in the form of skins or as interactioes that were cute and cemented a sense of comraderie with the player. And then the game started catering to a mainly chinese male audience, characters slowly became flanderized into making their entire personalities and lives revolve around how much they loved the main character, not only that but as new content dropped the designs were becoming more advertly sexualized and flirty towards the viewer with camera angles emphasizing this. So we dropped it, we had already endured the slow character progression and the fact they removed all male npcs at the rewuest of the chinese fanbase, but what they did to one of our favorite characters was the straw that broke the camel's back.
You are not suposed to relate to them... guys like sex girls... all of this complexity you are talking about is the cherry... the first thing is... is this character hot? is this caracter showing their body? it objectifies them? dont really matter... majority of guys are just, well the character has a hot body?the character has a good voice? put fan service and guys will play a literal washing machine... Again all of this you are talking about it does not matter to the majority of men, that is a reality women just can't accept.
@@elisehalflight majority of guys dont care about any of this you said... the game is doing more money them ever because of this, they removed the male npcs as they should because the game is made to make money, if guys are happy... is not really a problem, is just think this is not a game you should be gaming with your girlfriend at all... not to offend gamergirls are in majority mentally ill, better to have a normie girl.
Interesting that you say that Ruppee is shallow, yes on the surface she is, but she actually gets interesting character development on an event named Miracle Snow (which you can play on teh archive) don't gonna spoil it but she;s just a sweetheart, also you showed Yuni and Mihara a lot, they have a really interesting arc through the plot.
I'm reminded of something I thought of when I was playing Soul Caliber decades ago. Something like, "The ladies there are pretty heavily sexualized, but hey, we got some hot guys too, so at least it's equal-opportunity." I mean, if I were a straight girl, I'd be drooling over Kilik. Even as a straight guy, I can say, "If I *were* to bang one of the male SC characters..."
The answer is different wiring between men and women. Men are visual creature. Simple and easy. I don't know about women. I am a guy. But one thing for sure, suits are sexy both for men and women. For an example, draw both male and female soldier in full service uniform and they rocks. Make it into an anime, cutesy style and everybody will be crazy. About sexualization, here is the key. Take a good look at the discussion after the player finish the game. If they discuss the story/lore with sexualization as an afterthought, that means the game is good despite the sexualization.
I agree with all of this besides the first paragraph Men and women are the same creatures… the belief that we’re biologically different is pseudoscience mostly. It only really applies in the heat of pubescent hormones Of course men and women do act differently, but that’s all social. If men are “visual creatures” who just desperately need to see boobies to be happy, then, to be blunt, we would be no more socially capable as literal dogs. (Also gay men wouldn’t exist) The fact that over time, less media has been over-sexualizing women in objectifying ways and more media has been sexualizing men should be proof that things do not need to be this way. And things are changing for the better, despite what some people very desperate to see boobies all the time might think. One day there will gacha games of men with fat bulges and fatter asses and you’ll see that so many women are “visual creatures” too lol (including me but I don’t play gacha games)
I remember asking what works better for chicks back in the day. Apparently it's more about subtle things and the feeling of something. Stuff like rolled up sleeves showing muscular arms with a bit of hair or a good looking guy with a nice suit and a tired expression with messy hair. At least that's what a few women I knew told me.
@@bornanime3255 So it is more like specific feature of the body, right? Interesting. However, you said about tired expression and messy hair. It turns out men love these too. Including me. Take a good look at fashion models. Both male and female models also have tired faces and/or messy hair. This is called aftersex/afterglow face by some people. As the name suggests, it is the expression after having sex.
"Take a good look at the discussion after the player finish the game." Honestly, this is a very good benchmark. And really, once the story hooks you in, you won't even notice all the jiggling it could throw your way. Sure, you know it's the reason you're there, you make jokes about it with the bros, but once you're in deep, the only thing you'll be thinking in the long run are not the assets, but _"Jesus christ these people need a break, I just want them to be happy"_
God bless the Phyrrhixz for opening the eyes to new fans about the lore and its characters. Hes always working hard on his videos of Nikke Goddess of Victory.
15:36 you bring up an interesting point. The way I see it is that when it comes to male characters the focus is often shifted more to what the character is, does and represents and focuses less on how they look, even if that is still important. Men are often considered attractive doe to what they are capable of, that can mean a lot of different things, but it is a very important thing, that's why a calendar with shirtless guys may sell but a calendar with shirtless firefighter men sells more. Since you mentioned Genshin Impact, lets take a look at one of the fan favorites, Zhongli. He is handsome and has a nice voice, but he doesn't show a lot of skin, but he is not only dressed but very well dressed, he is also well read, polite, a bit of a know it all but definitely someone that you could talk to for 5 hours and not even notice, he also takes his promises very seriously, and in terms of gameplay he is skilled with the spear, looks cool using it and is a shield character, so there's the protector thing going on. All of these traits are part of why fans like him but they are also hinted at by his look and posture as well, showing less skin actually makes him more attractive because his clothes are expressing what he represents. This is also what makes people like female characters but the balance is often shifted more towards the way they look in a sexual way first, specially when it comes to gacha games, but if that's all they have going on the character won't last long or will only attract very weird hyper focused fetish people. Since I am more familiar with Genshin Impact I'll use another character from there: Noelle. She is a maid with some odd pieces of armor here and there and carries a big sword, is shorter than the tall characters in the game and is pretty, like all playable characters, but these are superficial traits. She has more going on. She is reliable, wants to help people even at the cost of her own health, she is strong and has goals, and when she fails she just gets back up and keeps going. Even in terms of gameplay she is good for new players and at C6 she is a beast, when she says "leave it all to me" she means it so she also has the protector aspect there. Her posture shows that she is polite and tries to be friendly, and even her armor that leaves vital parts of her chest and back exposed show her personality because she is putting her heart on the line, she uses herself as a target so she can protect others, it also shows that she is not dumb since her Geo magic allows her to generate shields so she is merely baiting the enemy into attacking her, so she is knight material on top of all. Sorry for the long post, in short, fanservice is good when it hits that imperfect but fitting balance, those are the types of characters that we love and want to see in our games.
the reason male characters wear allot of clothes in this games is not because clothed males are sexy nonsense, is because chinese censorship prohibit having shirtless male characters so studios by pass that by drawing then wearing skin tight clothes and a jacked
Thank you. People mistaken a lack of product to a lack of want for a product. I mean there are a few games that have men in outfits equivalent to what sexualised female characters wear but they aren't as popular but that's not to say that lots of women don't love them and regularly play and talk about them.
I stopped watching to write this really quick, but I really do love your content, they're so in depth and worded well, but they never feel degrading or pretentious. They acknowledge multiple angles while keeping your stance, and nothing feels out of place or unnecessary. Sorry if this is kinda weird, I just really appreciate your work and I can't wait to see more!
I really appreciate comments like these. I really try to do my best to not say anything that might in some way be disrespectful or inflammatory because the last thing I want is to make fun of a thing someone loves. Even posting this video I got a bit paranoid thinking that maybe I should have worded things a bit differently, but I'm glad to see that the reception has been mostly positive
I might be alone on this one, but since I’m a guy the first thing I look at when trying new characters is how cool/badass they are and how emotionally impactful they were in the story, if there’s any. I remember playing DMC5 for the first time as a newcomer to the series and I immediately picked Vergil for “obvious” reasons, but the thing is even if Vergil was absurdly speaking a female, I wouldn’t give 2 shits. When I play a game I know I’m playing a fictional product thus I already know that what’s happening doesn’t reflect reality. I think all guys have dreamed of cool fights at night at least once in their life and that’s literally all I ask for in games, which is why I never really cared about sexualization. If a character is cool/has an impact on me story/lore wise, that’s enough for me, Furina is the perfect example, I’ve never seen anyone sexualize her, and she’s probably the most respected female character in the Genshin community after playing the main story. Long story short fan service can be nice, but I’d rather play someone as cool as Vergil anyday rather than some girl with extreme bazoonkas from Azur Lane just because she’s hot😂
So long as women in my games doesn't boil down to: "I made her this way to make a political/ideological statement", I don't care much. But like everything, appearance is always a plus. You can be happy with a car that just works, but happier with a fancy looking car that looks gorgeous.
I think it's a bit cliche that people dismiss most/all characters with minority traits as 'virtue signalling'. As long as a character is written well it can work great. Honestly, evaluate what your idea of a "normal" character is and it is kind of telling. It's a white guy, probably? Same. Why should that be the norm, y'know?
Would definitely recommend you play the old events. They are in the archives section within the commanders' quarters. The events and other activities bring allot of nikke's from the roster into them, and REALLY do a good job making you fall for them. Not all Nikke's are fleshed out yet. But many of them are. I don't see lifeless eyes.
Hi there Haedal, have you ever tried Reverse 1999? Its the most philosophical and character rich gacha game I have ever played, and I'd love your take on the philosophy of mathematics
The problem is that people donʼt realize characters can be blatantly sensual and profound at the same time. It doesnʼt need to be one in expense of the other & thatʼs what NIKKE does. Blatant sensual ladies with profound stories, but even if it they were just sensual it wouldnʼt be a problem of art.
For me it depends on how it’s handled. There’s the awesome ways to do it like Stellar Blade, Nier or King of Fighters where it’s the spice or in the case of Azure Lane it’s the point. But then there are cases where it is cringe or done in such a way it’s gross (the anime called Eiken comes to mind). Also props for not parroting the same dull “y’all just want porn you virgins” talking point and actually being constructive.
It honestly has less to do with how it looks and more to do with how it's used. A character being sexy doesn't matter on it's own, they can still have good dialogue and cool moments, they just look good. But if you replace potential dialogue scenes or plot developing scenes for that character, with fanservice moments, then you have actively foregone good writing and replaced it with sexuality. Now again I want to point out that sexuality isn't the core issue here, rather the reason it's being used, fan service. Fan service doesn't have to be sexual, it could be comedic and have the same effect, where you fore go character development and would rather make a character silly or do something they've done before because fans like it. That is not an issue with comedy, that's an issue with bad writing as a result of lazy attempts at viewer/consumer retention, and to appeal to fans without any substance, sexualisation can be used the same way, but as a consumer you don't hate it because it's sexual, you hate it because it's being used in a lazy way when you know it could have been done better.
Exactly, I like how in Nier Automata 2B is definitely designed with some sex appeal in mind, but the game won’t deliberately focus on it. When 2B and 9S clothes get obliterated there’s no comment on it either. It’s treated more nonchalantly and not like this “big” thing worth loosing the mind (and Noseblood) about. It’s “respectful” sexualization
But the point you made in the bottom is just objectively correct, anyone who thinks fan service is good is just a coomer. They simply are virgins that just want porn. It's different from just having good looking characters. Tomb Raider 2013's lara croft is very good looking but obviously not coomer bait.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 The porn argument does not work when pornography is just one click away on a computer or phone these days. Some of us just like seeing sexy shit regardless and just want to have fun, especially if that was the gimmick as advertised (me personally tho I’d rather play something on the level of Stellar Blade whose protagonist looks cool and has banger costumes, as opposed to something like Onechambara which is a T-square linear zombie slayer game with a heroine who is a fashion nightmare). Not saying there aren’t people who strictly do want that but I wouldn’t call them the majority either.
Nice. A very earnest an interesting dip into this complex topic. Also as someone who never plays gacha games (don't trust myself to play them responsibly), it was interesting to hear about the depth behind the women in Nikke. I feel like that does say some about in-game presentation, as you pointed out. It actually has me thinking of Skyrim in a way. Skyrim was game with really impressive and interesting LORE. However, once it came to the actual storytelling of the game, it mostly fell flat on its face. Based on this video, it sounds like there was a similar discrepancy when it came to the characterization of Nikke's character's. I mean, that was the mission statement and the fanservice certainly met a need among its customer base, but as a writer myself, I feel for all that characterization that seems to have been left in the lore pages.
Loved your video! You have such a nice sense of criticism and self awareness! Also I would “sexualize” your voice! Just kidding haha! Anyway! I think the reason that female characters have less clothes is because “man’s neurons” are more commonly activated by that, by what they visualize first, while “woman’s” are more focused in a different type of sexualization, even the occupation,voice,age of a man can be sexualize by woman. Also according to Psychology woman’s tends to feel violated much easier, that is some of the reason they feel so offended by sexualization in anime girls while they sexualize hell lot of anime boys like alhaitham and Scaramouche…Just because they don’t usually make suggestive fan art of characters doesn’t mean they don’t sexualize a hell lot of them in fanfics. The world would be simple if people just accept that sexuality is part of what makes a human being and that different genders sexualize in different ways! To end my comment, there are people that looks like just as anime characters, even the small ones and are grown adults… People that see a problem with it should seek therapy (anyone should take care of mental health, but these people are clearly suffering to problematize this)
2. About the sexualisation of men I notice that more men discuss what they think it is. I believe that at least some skin is necessary if not tight form fitting clothes are good. I had seen a post about what men think a sexualised man is vs a woman or something like that and from everything I have seen over months and all the argument, it is clear to me that for some reason men think a man being is sexualised eveb if they are over dressed they think women can't just over men's body pr men cannot wear revealing outfits, they think that women sexualise personality only. They mistaken attractive for sexualisation and argue with actual women when they try to complain about the lack of sexualised men or equality when it comes to sexualisation because you have all these examples that women don't even consider as examples. There is this film about male dancers and top many men say how this film taught them that ....women....are....into sexual(ised) men/thing? Which is shocking to me.
Reused comment: 1)And that's the problem people talk about not knowing how to sexualise men but don't ask women and even argue with them when women disagree. I saw a post about what men thunk is sexualised (a man wearing normal fitting clothes) vs what women actually find as fanservice (a man in a very tight suit from head to toes. Also look up nu carnival and oni onsen.
I'd push back a bit as men and women sexualize those they're attracted to more similarly at an innate level (though cultural differences in how men and women are treated and perceived does cause much more of a divulgance in this behavior) but women can find exposed skin hot, men find the subtler things about a character attractive. I think in general if we trended towards sexualizing characters the way we do male characters rather than objectifying them the way a lot of female characters are it would go a long way to improve everyone's enjoyment of the game. I agree that we should be more willing to accept human sexuality though, that's a good step forward
I honestly totally agree that sexual components really never adds to content and I loved you used my dress up darling. I honestly would ah evprefered the show if they didn’t make such a big deal like they do.
Personally, I dont really fet the need for deep characters, depending on how were defining deep. Yes, a character should actually be a character ( plot, story, reactions, etc) but I fail to see why it needs to be super complex or in-depth to be good, nor why they must either be a stereotype or defy expectations, instead of just doing what they would do in a given situation ( without breaking character all of a sudden).
I think men are sexualized more over the status and function than their body. As you said, suit or uniform, both are about a function. The (handsome) successful man. (in case of suit). The integer and dependent man (in case of uniform). And that has been going on for far longer than just now. Also watch Conan the barbarian. That is male sexualization for heterosexual males. All in all veery good video, thank you for your hard work :)
I actually saw someone arguing that Eve, and in general, Stellar Blade, isn't hot enough. This was after the game released, but really, she''s very plain of a character. If you want to make a sexy character, their personality should be attractive too, and it doesn't have to come to disrupt the story in any way. For example, in Bayonetta, Cereza is a very well fleshed character. There are so many details in the way she acts and dresses that add to her character. She's also sexy, a big part of the gameplay is her owning her feminity. One thing that is interesting is that many kinds of people find her attractive, men and women alike. I wish that Eve's sexiness added to her character, but most of the time in the game, she doesn't do much to show her personality.
No, you see, it was because he made liking women sound gay /s No but fr, you'll see a lotta lefties tryina push this narrative and while I don't doubt a sizable part of the backlash was from right-wing chuds, I'm pretty sure the worst of it was from lefties who sicced their fanbases on him, as he himself stated people he looked up to turned their back on him. Honestly? After his hogwarts legacy statement I'll be hard-pressed to care. Shoe on the other foot and all that.
@@stegosandrosos1291 Really? That's weird, because he mentioned that people he looked up to turned on him and joined the hate mob. You think he looked up to manosphere influencers, the kinda limp-dicks who would do the "he made liking women gay" shit?
For me, I love characters like Violet Evergarden, Mikasa and Erza Scarlet because they've shown love and compassion to the people they care about. Erza on the other may have her sexy moments like in the movie Dragon Cry but I think she's an amazing character by being a big sister to her guild mates. Mikasa is a badass Ackerman who isn't that much sexualised but people remember her for her action scenes in the early seasons. Violet is a girl (apparently, she's 14 ) who wants to understand what love is and suffers the loss of her captain which made her want to become a doll and write letters for people. She may not dress in such revealing attire but her character is what made me fall in love with her. And also, she was a child solider and being such a young age, experiencing harsh violence front and centre while not being fazed by it.
One of the reasons one of my favorite games of all time is Limbus Company is because the sexualization in that game is non-existent. Simply comparing any of the character designs to the likes of Nikke tells you all you need to know. Limbus, nor any of its franchises, has ever even hinted at anything sexual, with the exception of maybe Lobotomy Corporation, the first game of the franchise which had a couple rather voluptuous character designs (but even that was purely visual, and on top of that, is arguably extremely tame in comparison to most other games). Early on, the game reinforces the idea that sex and gender are not a dividing factor in the universe- everyone are legitimate equals in the way that everyone is subject to the same, harsh conditions of the City, and everyone has the means to try their best to survive in those harsh conditions- meaning that the only thing that really separates people is what they can bring to the table. It couldn't care less about who you are. It's one of the first games I've played (and the same goes for all Project Moon games) that really focuses on them just being people. There's no need to rely on some horny bait to draw players in. No need to objectify characters. Even when the characters do get "sexualized," (I'm talking the Molar Ishmael ID and the Molar Sinclair ID which can hardly even be called sexualization) you don't even really notice. None of it is forced or out of character, and none of it is made or designed specifically for the reason to arouse you. They are simply very well written, realistic, and reasonable characters and that's it. They're just characters who you can, and who the game expects you to, like for their actual character and personality. I'm more tired of people finding ways to justify the use of sexualization without seeing that most if not all media can do just fine without it, as long as it has actual integrity beneath the sexualization. Why bait people into consuming your product by capitalizing on their horniness, rather than just letting your story and world speak for itself? It lowers the integrity of your product overall through the use of it, because it essentially indirectly tells the consumers that: "No, we didn't have enough confidence in our writing that people would actually want to play our game without big anime biddies swaying around in their faces." I know in the majority of cases we are just talking about videogames or gachas specifically, but I still think that people are entitled to good, well-written stories. Games shouldn't be held back because of the fact that they are games, and people shouldn't feel as if this is the level of quality they should expect from all their games coming forward. But I digress.
Nikke does suffer from extreme tone changes between the various characters, and quite often the personalities really don't match the appearance of the Nikkes themselves, and that's coming from a daily player. Some of the supposedly deepest characters have foot-deep personalities, while in some other completely random cases, you get philosophical talks on the level of good visual novels. The partner of Centi, who you presented in the video, Liter, goes from a fun episode about Anis not cleaning her room to existential horror and nihilism at the drop of a button. Meanwhile Admi is about liking cats. ... And that's it.
Nice video 👍 I hoped you'd bring up cases of Estelle vs Gravel in arknights. I haven't gotten far, but for now it seems like there can be ways to explain why do they dress and behave how they do and the degree of alignment/discrepancy in those for the two. I hope to see some interesting and possibly sad story for Gravel while Estelle seems a bit of a weirder case, but my hopes are there. Care for a deep dive? ) Also Matoimaru is cool. Either way, have a good one!)
I think one of the issues is that people may avoid playing games with overly sexualized characters. I always steer clear of games with overly sexualized characters. But then again, I’m female, so maybe it can’t pull me in like it can a guy haha
The whole "fully covered but still hot" thing doesn't just apply to men though, it can apply to women too. Arlecchino is hot as hell and she's not showing anything.
All I want to say is that it was so nice when Arlecchino from Genshin was coming out and all her drip marketing had all the typical gooners just repeatedly saying how hot she is. I'm currently playing WuWa, I picked female Rover and pulled on my new main Yinlin, ok, I love some good booba too and, like, Rover's thigh chub lol. But seeing how a fully dressed gacha woman, who goes by Father, had men drooling was so nice. I pulled Arlecchino too. Like, she is really attractive. I think the deal is variety and, like you have said, it makes sense kinda or not be just only gooner bait. It's ok if it's gooner bait too, but variety in the women is really nice. Characters like Arlecchino in design and story are nice. Undercover agents like Yinlin being sexy is nice. Etc etc.
I really like how you defined 'strong female character' because I feel like people miss the mark a lot when talking about them, either only looking at (usually physical) strength, or the female part, when the most important part of the phrase is the character
I like to compare character design to the icing on a cake: if the icing is there to complement/support the dough or if it is there to replace/compensate for the dough. yes there is no problem the icing be the firts thing to attract attention, but it's a problem when it's the only thing that has or this does not fit the proposal
I think that is a good analogy but highlights my issue with disliking sexualisation as a result of poor game design. Take your example, if I have a cake with no icing that's fine, but a cake with icing is a bonus. However, if I have a shoddy cake where the ingredients were bad and were mixed poorly, if there were icing or not, the cake is still shoddy, and if there were icing, I wouldn't say the cake was made worse because of the icing, I would just say the cake is bad and the icing either doesn't improve it or improves it in a minor way without any textural value. This is how I feel about games and other media using sexualisation, I don't care about it whether the game is good or bad, if the game were bad, then the game is bad, sexualisation has no part in that, I might like the pictures now but I'm not playing the game regardless. But if the game were good then yeah I'm playing the game, and hell if I like the pictures, that's a bonus. In this way I can't attribute sexualisation as a bad thing here, I'm applying my negative feelings of certain aspects and displacing them onto something else with no real logical basis to it. Now ofcourse you can take issue with sexualisation itself, but that would be the difference in what type of icing you like so to speak, some people like different types of icing and that's okay. You may not like the sexualisation and see it as degrading or dehumanising, but not everyone else will see it that way, it's subjective to the individual and there's nothing objectively wrong with it where we can say it therefore deserves removal or should never be done because it's labelled "bad", as simply put not everyone will agree and some people want that kind of icing on their cake, you'd only be depriving customers of a product you don't even want to buy.
But why tho? Why must she be be pretty or sexy? How does it add to the characters development and goals, and so on? What’s the benefit to it? Just looking good and fuckable?
4:24 I think one thing to note is that the human eye is attracted to motion, as we are a species that largely relies on eyesight for safety. It's a shame this objection falls apart when you notice just how hard it is to focus on any details (compared to any other thing you can observe). And I wonder how much of male sexualization being far more subdued (unless you look at yaoi) has to do with that it's not like we have much to hide. Being toned is kind of expected, and implicit from wearing business casual (and not being chunky).
My stance on the subject: I don't want games to be sexualized. BUT. You don't have to make sexual characters to make good-looking characters. You can have characters that look good, but aren't being sexualized, and that is what I believe we should aim for.
Thats a perfectly fine opinion, I personally dont agree. I love sexualization and I dislike any kind of puritan stance on how characters should be protrayed. With that said, its fine if you prefer and only play games that dont have sexualization, just as long as you dont think that you're opinion is the law and everyone should be forced to make and create games that only pander to your own world views.
@@GlaDos321 Of course people are free to do as they wish, as long as they aren't taking it too far. Again, I only have an issue with it if it interferes with the game or character in a bad way. Otherwise I don't really care. And most people really shouldn't.
18:05 "Let me use this as an excuse to look at twinks-" *pulls up picture of Wanderer* That shit caught me off guard, I was not mentally prepared 😭 thanks for the laugh 👍 Uh yah, wandering forever 🍃
a big part of the sexualization of male characters, for the ladies you will notice that none of them are bald or even buzzcut or have any facial hair, while in reality those hairstyles are common with men. male gamers, however, seems to like baldies and facial hair more, evident by the common male protagonist, particularly from the PS3 generation where I think gaming is still predominantly male.
The nature of this conversation lies in how many people find this important and how strongly. I'd say that sexualization is just a trait and people are free to appraise it as good or bad with a caveat: the moment your harmless beliefs(this case finding fictional hot characters good/bad) is projected to another person with harmful intent or you see others who disagree with you as less of a person than you are then we have a problem, because that means this is not just a perceived idea, but a form of faith that has integrated to a person's sense of self, which causes the person to harm others that harm their sense of self(people who disagree). Another problem of fixating over hot designs to an extreme degree, no matter as good or bad, is that it is a binary way of viewing things. For example perhaps one may stop looking at the character's story/gameplay/lore because they are too fixated over how the characters are designed. In this case, I pray they have the strength to getting over it because yeah getting rid of a faith can be hard af. For my personal case, I'm more on the horny side but nevertheless if people don't dig hot characters(for example perhaps they're too distracting or they feel lechery on the fictional character), then I am willing to see them as an equal person at starting point. They are completely free to report their discontent as long as they don't view people who disagree as less of a person, me included within this context. They are also free to choose not to consume the content just as I am free to do so. There's more factors than just horniness factor guys, if you're very fixated on it in either ways you risk experiencing less on content thus less fun. For example in Arknights I started with Shining Swimsuit as my main assistant but now it's Penance because her story, gameplay, and character is so good. And if you like Shining Swimsuit then I also wish you well, she's hot af. Even if you're a furry and like Mountain, all the power to you
I'm honestly convinced that, aside from the obvious reason of "seggs sells", the sexualisation of the Nikkes is an intentional bait and switch. While the marketing of the game does everything to objectivy the characters, the game itself does a lot to subjectivy them. It offers multible forms of interactions and thus opportunities for characterization, it has: Advise sessions, Bond stories, random encounters, blabla messages, relatively frequent cameos in event stories, side stories and of course its main story. I also like to think that Nikke has no real filler, as the slice of life stuff serves to humanize the characters. Whose humanity is exactly what you are fighting for in the story. A good direct example is Diesel. I don't understand (though i'm aware that it is done by people) how anyone could shamelessly lust after her, after reading her bond story. That's just me though, and i'm aware that i'm probably taking this game's story a bit too seriously.
I think a lot of people forget that, on a fundamental level, one of our biggest collective sexual turn-ons is a pretty face. You give a character a pretty face and you barely have to do anything with the body. They can be at least decently chubby (see: Mei, Elegg 🥚), and even at higher levels of body fat there are people who will be into them. You can make them tall or short. Big or small breasted. The hips/ass area is probably the only other place you'll want to be particular, but even then you just have to not fuck it up entirely and you'll get a good number of submissions on [redacted].
I think that's just because women's bodies are more sexualised though, rather than it being a natural thing, because if you go to cultures where women go topless boobs aren't sexualised, theyre just seen as a normal body part. The men aren't going round aroused all the time. In general I think your statement is somewhat true, like as a straight woman abs and muscles are hot and everything but its not like boobs for example where you can get off to them. That being said I still think men are hotter in less clothing than more, its just that the effect is less dramatic maybe than for straight men. Sorry this wasn't very well worded but yh this is just my personal experience.
@@franisthebest1234 Thank you for sharing your opinion. It does make sense that, in the end, less is hotter. But yeah, as you stated, what I meant is that, in general, the effects are less dramatic in women (or at least that's from my observations) than men.
![DEV NOTES ARE BACK AGAIN WITH NEW REWARDS SYSTEM!!!……..[Solo Leveling: Arise]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J1wWQoM4zi4/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for checking out the bond stories! Eventually we’re trying to get them all done! Great video and enjoy NIKKE!
Thank you so much! I'll be sure to check them out on your channel as I get new characters
@@Haedal_VT You want the spice of Nikke story? Play the OverZone story event in Nikke, trust Me you will love it.
i got to that part in the video and just want to add that the blabla messages you get from the nikkes are more or less under the same boat as the small interactions you get to increase their bond lvl
@@Haedal_VT your framing of the issue is all wrong of course. ''false equivalence fallacy'' right here - 2:38
I think the argument is more about looks rather than actual character. Women don't have to be drop dead gorgeous to be a likable character, and they don't have to be ugly to pander to people who don't even play videogames. They just need to be characters that people can relate to and enjoy playing as.
The problem with that argument that in practice, most people prefer beautiful forms for attraction at the first sight, sometimes it doesn't even have to be on facial beauty, just look at people amazed by beautiful physiological figures of athletic body or even working figures
It applies the question to practice by how men also viewed by women, unless money (and/or power alongside influences) are involved, fat to obese men will always be less preferable then thinner to fit men, it's ingrained in our biological impulses instead of social studies' perceived philosophy
Fuggin’-A, man.
@@ohamatchhams what you say is true, but the real problem is not the sexualization of women in media but rather how most of these sexualization are just shallow cash grabs which many women find offensive and men find uninteresting.
@@ohamatchhams TL;WR I personally like INTERESTING designs, so I believe a lot of people do too, even if they don't realize it. It's not bad if a character is hot when their design has more than that going on for them, but when that's all it has going for it I'm left unimpressed, and I think people should feel that same way, even if I may realize that's what people in the business call "a me problem".
That REALLY depends. Personally, I like characters I think it'd be cool to be. And on that token I like chiselled men like kiryu or sett alright, but I REALLY love absolute units like Saejima or even Fate's Herakles. And you'd be hard-pressed to call those guys beautiful. Hell, even for women, I care less (not to say I hardly do, mind) about how a character looks as I care about her personality. To wit one of my favorite women is the Princess from Slay the Princess, who at best looks eerily beautiful and at worst...well the eye of the needle requires a very specific set of tastes that I happen to have. And that's not even getting into lategame spoilers or her other forms. Hell, one of my favorite forms of her is the Specter who's just a skellington in a dress.
I think saying that beauty is what catches someone's eye is part of the truth, but I think even more that what TRULY catches the eye is interesting designs. Designs that seem to have something to say or make you feel. And frankly? I'm *personally* rather exhausted by the standard anime babe, inasmuch as that stirred lust in me when I saw kiddy grade the first time when I was a kid and later on Soul Eater while in puberty, but after that the bit got stale. This is less so because I don't find hot characters hot but moreso because it's OVERWHELMINGLY the same fucking body which gives in no small part a creepy stepford wives effect where I feel like it's just a doll with hair and clothes and colors swapped around.
Again, this isn't about why I think the design shouldn't be done, it's why I don't find beautiful designs compelling on their own. I'll take a design that stands out, even if it's by having abs over one that just tries to brush my undercarriage, and I don't think I'm alone. And I still think there should be designs like this, but I want more cool, badass designs too. Or weird ones. Hell, Enikk is a voluptuous lady with a presumably pretty face, but just on account of how monochrome and faceless she is I find her design much more intriguing than, say, Jackal. Hell, I'll take Volume, too, since yes she is hot, yes I do enjoy that but more importantly her design is EXUBERANT. I just take a look at it and I think "oh she's certain she's that bitch". And this is to say, I just want something more to draw my eye beyond just tits the size of the anime average and legs that look so skinny they'd probably break from one jump.
@@robbieaulia6462 why women find it offensive when most of them are neither interesting nor good looking baffles me.
I get why some men find them "uninteresting" thought. They just have high standards for women or really like immersion, which women with a lot of exposed skin seems to break since they sort of break the aesthetics of the setting.
"I love woman" show lappland and texas alter, can I be honest? I completely understand you
based
@@Haedal_VT lappy and texas lets goo
Explain why it's understandable?
@@Josh-sz8ip Bro got hurt over a 2 month old comment damnnn
@@kyarumomochi5146 No. I just don't even understand the comment. I have ASD. Why don't you just explain why it's understandable instead of being gratuitously hostile or assuming hostility in me?
3:57 Fanservice in Arknights be like:
SCOTLAND FOREVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SCOTLENDDDDD
SCOTLAND FOREVER!!!
This is why I like Arknights & Reverse 1999
LMAOO
Woman here and you raise really good points! I really enjoyed my time with the video! I kinda want to share my thoughts on sexualized male characters, I hope you don't mind LOL
Honestly, I don't think we're all that different from men. Some women like superficial handsome characters, but some would prefer a more fleshed out character.
For those preferring fleshed out characters, my evidence is: Tumblr sexyman. Just look at the lineup and their designs. There's Sans, a literal triangle, the damned onceler, you get my point (there are times where they would be sexualized... but i think this just shows that women tend to start sexualizing AFTER falling for a character, but the opposite sometimes happens too). This is true for me too. There are times that I would fall for a character design, but ended up liking another character because they just have a more interesting personality/backstory/character motivation and contributes to the story more.
HOWEVER! On the other side of the spectrum, there are some women who just enjoy seeing hot men. I think this can be proven with the success of games like Nu Carnival (BL gacha game), Love and Deepspace (otome game), and Obey Me (otome game). I'm not saying that these games are shallow (except for Obey Me. I'm just speaking the truth, don't come at me) but these games in particular are usually marketed in a way that accentuates the guys' sex appeal, like showing pecs and stuff. Love and Deepspace's marketing really focuses on the fact that you can touch the handsome anime men and tickle them when they're shirtless, things like that. But when you play the game, it has plot and some worldbuilding (but I can't personally say if it's well done or not. I played a bit and dropped it because it's not really my thing). The main focus are the guys and how beautifull/handsome they are, and how you can interact with them, that's for sure.
TLDR, men and women aren't that different when it comes to this. Some women sees a hot guy and that's all it takes for them to simp, while some needs more than that. But again, that's just my personal opinion. If there's a woman reading this and would like to add their own experience/thoughts, please do so! Otherwise, I hope this is insightful? Thanks for taking the time to read this!
Yoo this is kinda unrelated but why do you think obey me is a shallow game? Just out of curiosity, if you don’t mind answering
@@Sleepy_aku First I want to put up a disclaimer. I have nothing against Obey Me fans, I used to like it too. I get why someone would like the game and stick with it, and I love the VA events that they held every once in a while. If you're an Obey Me fan, nothing wrong with that! Continue to like what you like and don't let a stranger from the internet stop you!
I just personally think that in terms of story, it's a bit lacking in substance and feels very lackluster. The lore feels like it's trying to go somewhere, but it doesn't and it feels bogged down due to heavy slice of life filler moments. They also keep teasing that the characters will have more under the surface but so far I've yet to see it (and I don't have the patience to keep going LMAO).
Not to mention the uneven character spotlight. This is hell particularly if you're aiming for the non-demons, like I did with Solomon and Simeon. I figured that if I raise my relationship up with them by constantly using their cards in battle, I'll have more of their story, but I got none. Just crumbs 😭
TLDR The game can be fun at times and I love the VA events, but I don't see myself continuing Obey Me for its story and characters. They feel very surface level, lackluster, and the lore feels lacking in impact.
If you disagree though, feel free to let me know! I'm all here for a healthy discussion of medias
@@ivana2609 ah I see I see, also it’s alright XD, I really was just curious, no big deal
I’m shit at writing comments so I hope you don’t mind just reading me yapping for paragraphs hshdbdbdn
Ok yeah, with my experience with the game’s story thus far I can definitely get behind that. Even though I wasn’t THAT far into the chapters I think I have gone through at least one serious “arc” and almost immediately after that they diverged back to becoming a sitcom with all the shenanigans LMAO 😭 (completely forgot they’re supposed to have more character under the surface w that)
Feels like the game is just supposed to be lighthearted and not to be taken too seriously imo, personally I didn’t mind it, I think that may be why I never really had a problem w the game’s lore n character
Not continuing for the reasons you listed is very understandable too, thanks a lot for the reply and I really hope this reply’s understandable enough HAHAHAH 😭😭
Ahhhh the tumblr sexyman. To this day tumblr remains a well of weird and wisdom.
I remember someone making a post and thread about sexual looks.
"Does anyone get turned off when the design is so obviously sexual to the point it's like body horror and you can't get turned on anymore?" Or something like that.
I love the people who agreed and brought up examples of their experiences. Most of which about the gigantic deformed anime booba
@@Sleepy_aku Yeah your comment is very understandable! Dw about it! I do agree that Obey Me is definitely the game to just have fun and not overthink things (like I did LOL). It's good that you don't mind it and find enjoyment in that! Hope you can continue to find happiness through the game and have fun with it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Obey Me and for having this discussion with me
If u ask me, sexualization's empowering someone when there's more to them than that. If the ONLY thing about them is that they're attractive, then its demoralizing.
Well put
It’s not the sexualization that’s demoralizing them, it’s the damn writing. That’s like blaming the gun for killing a person instead of blaming the assailant.
There is a chase about how someone being more better looking can affect a persons first opinion on them but the thing that either makes them a good or great character or a bad one is if they are written in a good way or have depth.
@@ColorfulStarburst tell that to any gacha game player and their heads would explode
@@danielantony1882 LIke I said, if its only the sexualisation thats being added to a character, then they're bad. If there's more to them, like the recently released Yinlin from WWA, then its alright.
I do wonder if Neir:Automata started this "Look sexy dressed charcters in an apocalyptic world", to "Oh my God this game changed my life with it's writing" type of game. Given that both games talked about, "Stellar Blade" and "Nikke" gave that smilar description to Nier:Automata and might be inspired by it.
Stellar Blade is definitely inspired by Nier Automata. There are similarity even in the game design and gameplay.
Nier definitely popularized it and both games are openly inspired by Nier to some degree, especially Stellar Blade. Yoko Taro likes both games too
@@xylathoth also worth mentioning nikke had a collab with nier and unlike other 2 collabs characters were sexualized.
I don't think stellar blade will be nier levels of writing...
Nier is a beast of its own.
But I think it will be good.
Yeah, the nier ending was deep.
That said, stellar blade is miles more daring than nier auromata in terms of fanservice.
Oh, if you wanted deeper stories for Nikke then you're looking in the wrong spots. Advise stuff is meant as momentary gags and quick bite sized moments and for upgrading stats. The proper development you wanna see is in the main, relationship stories and event stories. About half of all stories and interactions outside of that are split between just slice of life interactions and seeing an interesting interaction take place.
Just as well if you want to see Rupee's whole shopping gimmick get turned into one of the most wholesome character traits check out the Christmas event she has with Anne. It ain't that Nikke doesn't have shallow characters, but most do have layers if you look where the game lets you. Also I really appreciate that you took the time to actually look into the content and dog for the positives. Shows you don't really have malintent when researching stuff.
True true! I haven't played much of Nikke but I geniuinely think that most of the characters are super nice and unique, which I especially see in the main story and events, like dawg I almost cried sometimes because you can geniuinely get attached to them. The fanservice does throw me off at times, especially because it's so obviously male-gaze centered and I'm a woman, but on the other side the art is so beautiful, the voicelines fit, the stories are nice, the gameplay is fun...
I think this guy is gay. No big issue, but a weird take to try to degrade pretty women for being pretty, and shallow.
i suggest finishing the vid!
@@inthediamondsky i did😭 wdym
None of this bargain bin writing (of which an AI could do better) negates the issue at hand, which is the dangerous objectification of women!
I feel if the sexualization makes sense for the character such as bayonetta a confident and charismatic adult women it’s great! But if it doesn’t fit the character’s personality or background and is only there to tittalate the viewer then it only takes away from the character.
Agree
Disagree sexualization such as dresses really can't "take away" from a character
@@Timmy-mi2ef Just outfit, no - it can't. But if character starts acting like anything but themselves just to be "sexy" then it's just putting character into trash. There are many ways to be sexy, writers should choose special sexy way fitting their characters - like spice for food. You can use pepper for gingerbread, but it may not fit cheesecake...
Agree. Nobody had an issue with Bayonetta, she is a fun character with tons of personality, her sexuality being an integral part, and she knows it.
In contrast, characters like Eve and 2b are a bit creepy because they seem just like dolls, sexualized for no in-universe reason and seemingly unaware of this.
"If you're attractive but not interesting, its actually a negative trait."
Fan service should be the cherry on top of an already great character sundae.
Not really, even a cherry is important to the compotition of a cake, if you have a cherry where it doesn't need the cake would be (less points) in the quality
Maybe, but not EVERY female character needs to be some super in-depth character. Hell, Lord knows many male characters aren't deep. How many action heroes are 1 dimensional
Not exactly, there's no one size fits all. Fanservice may also detract from a game to some since say the game is trying to be all philosophicsl then you add boobs, which some may enjoy either way and say that it's extra and makes things hilarious, but others might not.
@@Cecilia-ky3uw
If the game has good philosophical talk, a little ass here and then will not detract from that. Unless it specifically talks about fan service and sexiness being bad, while also utilizing it to draw people in, nothing of the philosophical meat will be lost through a bit of eye candy.
@@silverscreen842 it will dent the mood
"Came for the *plot,* stayed for the plot."
I think this is a pretty common sentiment across a lot of actually good "light-ero" games. Personally, I am never really bothered by gratuitous fanservice of male and female characters. Stuff like that hasn't ever influenced my judgement -- for the better or worse -- of the overall product.
I suppose that is why I am always confused when someone says something like, "Oh, the over-sexualization of this game's characters really bring it down." because it doesn't make sense to me how a quality experience and having sexy characters are often thought to be mutually exclusive.
Anyhow, good video.
it brings it down when the fanservice interrupts the experience and the player isn't into it
i can handle most fanservice, but when a show i'm watching stops just to insert it, it turns me off because i consume media for the stories and characters, not to be horny 😂
@@lenaalt2387 You can look at big butts and big boobs or muscle behemoth dudes without being horny. But in what context would you say the fanservice interrupts the experience?
if its overwhelming it seems tasteless
Some people have their own taste on how women look that's why sometime it turns ppl off, last year i've almost install nikke bcs i think maybe the storyline is great and the gameplay looks fun but after seing more and more character got released it turn me off the fan service is getting more and more wilder and more overexagerated b00b and a$$ physic its like watching a plastic attached to their body and the gameplay also highlight the physic, for example the pink bunny suit that i saw yesterday from ads and that new released character(i think) that one loli that show her feet, its just fell weird to look at that, it came from normal sexualized character to overlysexualized and fetish reliever character
Because in most cases these characters are made as sex object to be sold. It doesnt help the secualization clashing with the story trying to be told is another factor.
To a point, I get bored from sexualization, and don’t like seeing it
I enjoy when the fan service is just cool visuals
For Real
Well, I don’t. I get bored of bad writing. You can’t have too much fan service, only bad writing that doesn’t know how to utilize it properly so it bores you.
I enjoy fan service as actual fan service (where you see your favorite characters back or a certain reference or callback to something else or giving your favorite characters the best character arcs) more than trying to make fans horny
@@danielantony1882 Spoken like a true gooner lmao
@@PeruvianPotato Spoken like a real degen.
"Here's an average college kid for reference" and "Calcium Cannons" caught me so off guard here.
Should have compared it to a faculty staff or archivist instead of a college student, honestly.
Sexy characters are great but sexiness is also fleeting. It's one thing for a character to be hot but if I'm supposed to engage with them further and remember them, then there must be more to the character. I would even argue that good characterization makes a character even sexier.
Bayonetta's personality is more attractive than her looks
@@Godzilla_Star_Eater*Bayonetta personality is just as attractive as her looks.
You apparently not played Nikke's events (which all can be replayed from the commander's office) like Overzone, Red Ash, Scarlett's event, or the full bond stories each Nikke has when they reach certain affection levels, for example Diesel or even Soline.
Just after editing this video, I got some really good pulls including Crown. Just got to chapter 6 last night and I'm really interested to see how the world and story are going to unfold.
@@Haedal_VTI think the quote I see thrown around quite a bit is "came for the boobs/ass, stayed for the depression." Also something unrelated to the characters and Story. Soundtrack slaps. (Edit, stubbed and waiting for thy next video)
@@Haedal_VT 2 weeks later, hope you are still enjoying the game. If you manage to get 2 memory films to unlock previous events in Archives, I highly recommend going to Red Ash --> Over Zone. They both are major events that will give you a tremendous insight in the world of Nikke. My best friend got me into this game, and I've only been playing for 3 months yet it has to be the most enjoyable game I've played haha. Storyline is absolutely worth it.
Why would reading some bargain bin (and likely ai-generated) writing negate the problem at hand exactly?
@@ganshrio7336 The story isn’t AI driven and quite thought out. The “problem” is just a pair of tits.
I've played Control and the Horizon games, and I genuinely had fun. It didn't matter to me that Jesse and Aloy weren't beyond supermodel levels of attractive. I found them enjoyable because they were witty and badass, and the stories they were experiencing were intriguing.
I watched the 3 hour Moon Ch. documentary on Korean feminism and gacha drama and the takeaway for Nikke seems to be that gender relations are so negative that the very idea of "being nice to women (and people below you) is beneficial to everybody" (the main plot thread of nikke) is actually progressive and subversive over there. Crazy to think about.
Sounds like a foreigner's delusional take on Korean culture. Being nice to women is not a western invention. Wake the F up.
Same here. I'd actually had the game installed on my phone for a week or so before watching Moon's videos, and they actually got me to try the game, and I feel like having that background knowledge really added a lot to the experience. It sounds utterly ridiculous from a Western perspective to say "oh yeah, in the game your special ability is treating women (Nikkes) like people," but with the background context of this rigid, hierarchical society, where everyone is being inexorably crushed by the layer above them, it actually makes a lot of sense.
Sorry to disturb your happy imagination, but Nikke's main theme is "the persecuted soldiers on the front line and the self-proclaimed patriots in the rear who persecute them behind their backs." This is not a story about the treatment of women.
@@hp0635 First of all, I'm curious if that's something that's been explicitly stated by the developers, or just your opinion.
Secondly, a work of media can have multiple interpretations. Just because you see a bear in an ink blot test, doesn't mean that someone who sees a dog in the same ink blot is wrong.
Also, I would consider it a compliment to Nikke's writing that people can come to differing conclusions about its central theme. It's a sign that there's plenty to dig into and think about.
@@internisla The translator isn't working as expected. I can only tell the rough opinion.
1. I am Korean, and there are many scenes of Nikke discrimination reminiscent of the insults suffered by soldiers in Korea. It's not just similar; the keywords are specifically the same. This is clearly intentional. In addition, I would like to say something about the relationship between Nikke and ordinary commanders, and the relationship between soldiers and executives, but the translator does not work properly.
2. It is true that it can have many themes, but at least it is not a theme about the treatment of women. The reason is simple. This is because Ark citizens discriminate against Nikke. The Ark citizens are not a group made up entirely of men, and there is no description of any special discrimination between them. Ark citizens all discriminate against Nikke, regardless of whether they are male or female. And the discrimination Nikke experiences is not at all reminiscent of discrimination against women, and is much more intuitively reminiscent of discrimination against soldiers.
If you claim that this work is a story about the treatment of women just because Nikke is all female, then you can argue that modern warfare FPSs feature only men appears and are all killed by machine guns so these games are a story about the treatment of male. It's the same as doing.
3. I don’t think Nikke’s story is good. However, I also respect other opinions.
One has to remember that not all feminists think alike.
Korean feminists have different ideas about how feminism should work than say, a russian feminist, who would have different feminist ideals than an ethiopian one, and to an american one, and to a british one.
Different cultural tastes come into play here.
True, but not wanting to be objectified as a sex symbol does seem to be a pretty common trend, even if a few are rather stupid about it
It depends on the necessities, since societies are different. A woman in the US won't face the same challenges as a woman in Iran.
Ask a muslim feminist her thoughts...oh wait shed need permission
this is called intersectionality
@@Castigar48 From the fact that they're known to exist, they apparently are able to share their thoughts anyway.
In the immortal word of yoko taro, "I just like girl."
’Tis the simple truth, fellowmen.
You’re too unbiased. You’re analyzing the problem separate of your own viewpoint. This is extremely rare in the current year.
I suggest you try more Nikke. The story gets wilder the more chapters you complete. It helps revisiting the old event stories as well.
Thank you! I've been liking Nikke quite a lot so far. Just got to chapter 6 last night and I won't be stopping anytime soon
Nobody is unbiased in this world (me included), but the video was very level headed and without standard shallow emotional response I was honestly expecting (I don't know your channel). You approached the subject from an actual scientific perspective and kudos for that.
@@azradun3903
Bias control is a genuine skill, and most critical thinkers, analysists, journalists and scientists must exercise it regularly to remain objective. It's the act of playing devil's advocate in a way, or essentially arguing against your own personal beliefs in the aims to be a impartial party to the subject. Suspension of personal judgement for further investigation is necessary to many fields, though it's not perfectly inforced.
Its definitely a doable thing, not indefinitely, most likely, but in many instances. So yes, people can be unbiased, but it takes active control, awareness and internal dissection of ones own motives, intellectual honesty, full self-disclosure, awareness and of course, a knowledge of common bias traps to avoid.
Definitely possible though, yet genuinely uncommon, especially in the context of UA-cam.
Im not feeling like grinding myself to hell or wasting a lot of money to progress tho. I like Honkai Star Rail I'm genuinely interested in the characters and history but I dropped it because the predatory essence of gacha games
@@pablon333 gacha games are annoying sometimes
As long as sexualisation does not come at the cost of Character
Fire force is the worst case of this where a character is sexualised so often (Shes often put into posistions in where she is losing so she can have clothes ripped and stuff, in this case sexualisation makes her seem weaker.
Kill la kill is a good version ,The characters are heavily sexualised but it does not come at the cost of character development
in the case of fire force the character youre talking about is supposed to be a gag character making fun of the trope
On the other hand, Fire Force has a female character with good muscle tone that doesn't go overboard. Too often when you see a strong female character, they either don't seem to have muscle tone at all or they go to bodybuilder extreme. Maki was a refreshing and gorgeous change from that.
I agree, and sexualisation helps to bring interest to something. Gojo and Makima are both hot characters but people end up enjoying them because they are good characters beyond just their looks. Eve from Stellar Blade only appeals to people based on her looks as she is a weak character, and the girl from Fire Force is kind of a victim of sexualisation as the story itself becomes a slave to it...
I mean fire force did have maki and some of the other female characters who were actually really decent
Maki especially with layers upon layers of subverting how you think her character would be, it makes me think tamaki was just added for the sake of filling out the fanservice editor checklist
Well Kill La Kill is satire, though sometimes it falls short of that and just ends up being booba
18:45 oh, he hasn't seen THOSE Andersen pics.
PD: subscribing to hopefully see another Nikke related video.
I really liked Baldur’s Gate 3. As a women I like to look pretty/hot/cool and I like pretty/hot/cool characters of male and female variety. However I don’t want things to be sexualized to the point it’s ridiculous. When I have a piece of armor and place it on a male companion it looks cool it doesn’t become two pieces of scrap metal when I place it on a female character. When I have a skimpy outfit on my female character I can place the same garb on the male character. True gender equality right there. There’s definitely fan service but it’s in the context of romance when the characters are trying to be appealing and not weird voyeuristic shots at serious moments. The only questionable thing I find is the fact that Lae’zel underwear flavor text claims to be practical when it’s the second to last practical one out there only above a incubus.
While I did enjoy BG3 from a gameplay point of view, none of the female companions are beautiful. Sure, they look like normal women, so they're not ugly either (aside from the frog).
It goes beyond that, it's impossible to create a beautiful female character and I tried. That doesn't seem to be a problem for male characters though. Apparently women get really thirsty over Astarion.
The worst part is that nearly all of them are some degree of insufferable. The one character that's wife material is Alfira and she's not even playable. I think Shadowheart is the most picked romance companion because she's the first one you meet, has access to heals without respeccing and is the least bad option.
That's a trait shared by male characters. I can't think of a single male character in that game I'd enjoy having a beer with.
@@antoineguerrier2965 Alfira is pretty but I think Shadowheart is just as pretty comes down to personal preference I think. Visually my favorite girl is mussel mommy Karlach but to each their own.
I like adventuring bums who look like they will crawl through feces for coin. Who are drawn with all the crap a dungeon bum carries, like a rope, a shovel or even just a backpack. Armour as mail is a mail hauberk and nothing else. Character survival should be the highest priority.
I liked how the stooges in Dungeon Meshi had backpacks, bedding etc. No lights though.
@@antoineguerrier2965AD&D could be very you against the world. The other bums are the only reliable thing you got.
I draw the line when I can't figure out why a group of bums are even together.
Practical in a video game lol ok...
After I’ve learned to care about my own body and learned other peoples’ attitude about bodies, I’m actually okay with the sexualization of characters as long as it’s fair. Others’ opinion on melons and pears won’t change my mind about going to the market when they’re on sale. Devs know what sells and they’re selling. Gamers are buying. Game recognizes game, and gamers recognize games with things they like. Seggs sells.
Nikke, now that I think of it more than I did back then, has a great and compelling story that has managed to pull me in. I’ve even related to some characters I didn’t think I would. I initially downloaded it because of Anis, now I keep playing it because of the actually powerful heart tugs and lessons in the story…and Anis 😭
me personally when it comes to hot men I have MASSIVE crushes on Zhongli and Xiao from genshin impact and Dan Heng from Honkai Star Rail
What can I say I like hot men who aren't really human as they appear
To put it simply, no, it doesn't. The only people I've ever known to think less of a character for their sexually appealing aspects are the very people who howl about "objectification" and call characters from properties they know nothing about "sex dolls with no personality"; in other words, the very people who make the titular claim.
I played Nikke for the booba but I stayes for the sad lore(still bobba)
creep
It really dosn't need to be deeper than hot characters are nice and easy on the eyes. It is ok to just have nice things for the sake of them being nice. They don't need to justify them being hot by having ocean deep story arcs and personalities. It helps to make the character even better, but it is not a sin to be hot or pretty, just like not all ugly characters need to be evil. Not every game I play have to be the deepest examination of human condition, sometimes I just want to have fun.
Also you need more views because this is a legitimately well-made video.
The video was well edited and the essay well written
Did people seriously complain about Aloy’s peach fuzz? 😐
They DO realize that all humans have hair and men just have darker, thicker hair… right? That not all women are constantly caked in makeup… RIGHT?
It's a video game. You don't need to be $100 realistic especially when it comes to gross things.
@@PeteyPirahna77 it’s not gross tho… how tf is that gross. If you think that you’re not gonna ever get a girlfriend bud
The mature route would be to realise that facial hair (Something everyone has) is not disgusting, but rather a normal human trait.
@@PeteyPirahna77damn bro you really announced you don’t get any bitches
@@PeteyPirahna77 It’s gross to you because you can’t come to terms with the fact that women are human and mammals and have hair
Here's the thing, from my perspective as a bisexual woman, I can quite like sexualized female characters(love your intro btw)... if they're actual characters. There are plenty of games or shows where I can be like "hell yeah she's so cool and hot" and enjoy it (It can even heighten the experience lol)
However many games and other mediums take the route of objectifying female characters rather than just sexualizing them, and at that point, they aren't a "cool character who can step on me" or an "adorable person who deserves to be loved" (etc yall get it). Rather, they end up just being sex symbols with little to actually care about them for. As much as it hurts to say, titties are meaningless if I can't care about the person with them. At that point, the most I can do is appreciate good art.
Similarly I dont get the hate for the horizon zero dawn character (though I haven't played the game yet) But she seems pretty cool hunting robot dinosaurs and all that, and certainly doesnt look unnatractive (while also being more immersive to the setting) I can agree some western media has an annoying aversion to sex, but I feel the whole issue is blown out of proportion. What most people want are good characters, not objects of desire. Good characters are often inherently desirable and most people are fine with/enjoy them being sexualized somewhat, but within the bounds of them as a character/person, rather than treating them like dolls.
Finally, I do think some of the issue comes from the difference between how male and female characters are treated, as mentioned in the video, fully clothed men with good outfits that portray their character are hot(so hot 🥵). But they don't feel like they were forced into those outfits to show off for an audience, rather they seem like actual outfits the character would wear. I want more of the same for female characters, lemme see a woman in full dress uniform, make female characters that show a lot of skin in a way that feels like a real and fitting outfit, and not like a big arrow pointing to boobs (I'm already looking I don't need my attention directed to them lol). I would absolutely argue those genshin impact men are sexualized, but it's done in a better way. Also in general we need more male sexualization please 🙏. Overall though this was a good video and fun to watch.
100% agreed.
Finally a bit of sense in the comment section. I hate when people call it "puritanism" or "purse-clutching" when you try to explain the difference between sexualisation and objectification. Objectification is about breaking the immersion and putting a character's pornographic appeal before good writing, their background or simply logic. It operates in the same way porn does storywise - every chararacter trait or story behind them becomes something to accomodate the action part. It doesn't really matter how plumbers, mechanics and family members get into the doing, the plot in the beginning exists solely for the purpose of setting up the premise. So, everything about the character loses its meaning when the character is objectified, because it becomes an accomodating trait, a kink in a way. A vampire woman arc is no longer about vampire lore or the horror of vampirism, but a fetish, a porn category, Big Titty Vampire Dommy Goth Mommy whatever. Even her own expression of sexuality loses its meaning, because the entire object that she symbolises is inherently sexual, the control that she has over her sexuality is not important and it's not focused on enough, because, again, all her character traits are subordinated to her pornographic appeal.
i can imagine that one does not refer to nikke as kino lightly. you've won me over, I will now play your game.
never judge a book by its cover
Unless its camilla from fire emblem fates
the entire purpose of covers is to be what the book is judged upon! thats their main purpose!
but the cover is A PART of the book, and should be judged alongside everything the book has to offer.
@@klauserji this is a false equivalency. book covers and blurbs are like movie trailers: they're what draw you in and the same book can have multiple covers, but once you start reading the book, the book cover doesn't matter anymore. just like how once you start watching a movie, the trailers don't matter anymore.
character designs are different. unlike book covers, a character's design is an important aspect of them. it can inform you about their personality, backstory, and is what comes to mind when you think of that character. it's not like a book cover.
not to mention, the original statement is about not having prejudice and giving things/people a chance before you arrive at a conclusion. so, "don't assume a character who looks bad is bad" or "a character who looks good is good", etc. it's a different type of judging.
@@no-ev1om only before you start reading
Regarding examples where sexualization adds to the story, I’ll dig my own grave by championing Looking Up To Magical Girls as the prime example of this.
I am so fucking sick of this goddamn discourse.
Whether or not they’re sexy has nothing to do with wether or not they are written well or if the gameplay is engaging and fun.
Attractive characters are just that, attractive. People need to stop moralizing how beauty is depicted.
Who gives a fuck if their sexualized? Who gives a fuck who it “empowers” or “demoralizes”, just fucking pick what you want and shut up.
This whole issue isn’t about women or sexualization.
It’s about marketing, social media, and people being pretentious and petty. I’m sick of it.
When done respectfully it can add value. I like aesthetically pleasing, sexy, cute characters who also have their own wants, desires and personalities. Sexiness itself isn't bad. It's when their just a sex object that it can become a problem. When the character is just there to be an object for people to fap at then it degrades them, They're simply there for people to lust over. They're an object, a sexy prop for people to stare at, not a character.
And for some it makes them think that people might be like that too, an object to sexualize. At least subconsciously, it normalizes it. Sort of dehumanizes people. If our culture wasn't like it is then one note, fap material wouldn't be that much of a problem. We live in a culture that does objectify people, mostly women but also men with lesser frequency. If you object to that then you must likely haven't experienced it personally, you might even do it to others yourself without thinking about it. That's what makes it most insidious.
Its hard to accept you might be part of a problem when its so ingrained and normalized into a culture. Turn that uncomfortableness that makes you feel into something productive, be more conscious of the society and culture around you. Its okay to be attracted to others, but respect them as fellow human beings, and always keep in mind that they don't owe you sex. Always ask for consent before touching people. Be respectful both in your words and actions. Think about how your words might make people around you uncomfortable. Don't objectify people, respect them.
_"Its hard to accept you might be part of a problem when its so ingrained and normalized into a culture."_
Yeah, that's exactly why it's so hard for extremists like you to understand why your anti men propaganda is so wrong. ;)
I think your problem is that you're equating fictional character to real life people.
@@DarkSpyro707twitter basically
Funny how you mention Nikke and Stellar Blade in the same Breath and context because as far as ive heard sgift up made games like nikke to be able to one day make games like stellar Blade and here we are they did it congrats to shift up.
Also thanks for talking about Nikke (never underestimate the sexy boob game to tell a dark and depressing story ) and using the soundtrack in the beginning. I've grown to love your videos more and more.
Question in the video of was "what does Dorothy make you think about?"
Over Zone, Sadness and campaing
Its a very simple answer, yes men like looking at at beautiful women in games, but its not what makes us stay, example tifa and jill from final fantasy games are drop dead gorgeous but their looks are not what makes people like them so much its their personality and great character development throughout their story, heck lulu from final fantasy 10 is dress like a goth beauty, and a dress that show all the good stuff, but even though her design to be sexy she is a great character that struggles with move on from her past, and puts on a brave front to hide her sadness, its not all about looks but how they're portrayed and caring themselves.
Take Lightning from 13 as a comparison. She was cute but was written like a carboard cut out. Even when they added cosplay for the third game of that series, that still didn't make her more appealing.
@@adriansanmartin5773 true but I still playing as her in 13 and lightning returns, plus dressing her up was pretty fun
@@hxntaiguy3318 I just ended the series out of curiosity to see how the story would end but I never cared for lightning. Noel, Caius and even Yuel were more interesting to me 😅.
@@adriansanmartin5773 yeah I want lie and say lighting was the most interesting character out there, it was basically female cloud without the charm, but I still enjoyed the series I know people think the 13 series sucks but not to me.
Lulu's outfit is so stupid though. Not only does it clash with the character but it just makes no sense at all. It's like she just found it floating in the air & jumped inside of it. There's nothing keeping it on her at all. It's worse than Christie's jacket from Dead or Alive 4 but at least Dead or Alive 4 was advertised as being fairly pornographic.
For me, my main issue with a lot of fanservice stuff is that it is so often used in the most shallow and superficial way possible. Like so many other tropes, it is a tool in the writers toolbox and is one of the most misused out there.
The most I could compare it to is horror oddly enough. It is similar to the jump-scare, being a cheap and easy method to evoke an instinctual reaction out of the player rather than actually putting in the legwork to craft something deeper that sticks with you.
One particular issue I see so often with fanservice is that how the plot is forced to be in service of the horny rather than the horny being in service of the plot. Like, how often do you see whole essays in a story trying to justify a certain horny element contrary to how nonexistent fanservice elements is instead used for things such as character growth or advancing the plot.
One easy way I can see if the fanservice is pointless or obstructive is to ask "Are they a good characters because of the fanservice or in spite of it?"
I think the only time that I can pull at the top of my head where fanserivce was used in a constructive manner for the plot was in Suisei no Gargantia, specifically the second dance scene between the main character Ledo and the love interest Amy. This was where Amy, decked out in a belly dancer outfit, did a private dance for Ledo set to a calm flute melody and auroras in the background. This serving as a big turning point in their relationship as Ledo awakens to emotions he didn't know he had for Amy and it just ends up being a sweet moment between the two. The focus was on the characters, the sexy was just a vehicle for that. Though even with all this said, they had to use a more standard fanservice scene to act as as setup for this one.
Hoooly you cooked hard with this one... thoughtful opinions that make sense while being an entertaining video. Hope you get skyrocketed by the algorithm.
It's important to know that outer societal pressures are also a factor to why majority of these games can be hypersexualized. East asia mostly comprises of very conservative countries, countries that still hang on to the belief of numerous traditional family values with slow progressivism. While it isn't entirely wrong to think in such a way, men are often pressured heavily into these norms that men should actively search out a good wife and women should get married as soon as possible. Almost every aspect in life as asians are towards getting better in life until you are rich or marry someone rich or have a family legacy of sorts.
This leads back to pressure. Often groups of men here seek out the notion of the "perfect" woman for them, even if it means searching it in something as simple as a manga panel. It's why "otakus" tend to be a stereotype, why the perception of love tends to be skewed here, why sex is both morally sought after in a wed bed and immorally desired in a red light district. The very notion of showing your friends a hot anime grille with huge honkers is much more normalized and not excessively shunned upon. Eastern devs can do just that because "why not?" and "I just like girls" and people wouldn't mind that. It rakes in money, kills boredom and gives people the alternative of getting aroused neuron activation than watching pr0n out in the open.
This is also hilariously true on the other side of the spectrum. With the surge of games like Genshin Impact a few years ago and the fact BL exists, it's becoming clear that male characters can make bank in the eastern market predominantly comprised of men liking strictly women in their games. If chiseled abs and marble cut jawlines are present in your game, expect females wanting in on the action. Many cultures of women here love a good yaoi as much as the guys like yuri much definitely more towards guys who they can constantly write fanfiction of, like cookie cut K-Pop or TV series with corny romance plots. The pressure of finding a guy you like substituted by yet another 2D character. Bonus if you're some bisexual fella or a respectable cultural guy/gal and you're basically surrendering your wallet.
Truth is, people make what they like, people play what they like. Sexualizing a characters account for the market, the culture and especially the interests of it all. Sometimes it's even a ploy to get people invested into your game for other aspects of your game like good writing, designs, personalities. Sexualization feels more like an added thing that's indicative of a developer's intentions and it's up to the player whether they're comfortable with it or not and to interpret accordingly. It's not going anywhere anytime soon as long as characters are designed well enough to warrant them a tag in R34. I'll take my cute degenerate submissive femboys and thicc thighed women who could step on me any day.
Hey I could use an arranged marriage. Western VvVoman are horrendous.
Excellent analysis I agree, it’s just something that’s there, depending on how it’s done. It’s either something that is, in most cases, neutral, or actually enjoyable. The only case I find it detracts is Nikke, which overdoes it in my opinion. Anyways yeah, big jigglies and soft skin attract attention, and actual meaningful substance keeps it. And I’m perfectly fine with that.
And that's the problem people talk about not knowing how to sexualise men but don't ask women and even argue with them when women disagree.
I saw a post about what men thunk is sexualised (a man wearing normal fitting clothes) vs what women actually find as fanservice (a man in a very tight suit from head to toes.
Also look up nu carnival and oni onsen.
I find the mention of chiseled jawline funny. I notice mostly men use that term and use it as a main attractive things
I just left a very similar comment under the video, but think what isn’t spoken about enough in these communities is the power imbalance when it comes to sex. And how that loops into sexual content. Artists have a very real responsibility when doing artwork of women because left unchecked, it can subliminally perpetuate sexual expectations and build dangerous desires.
Women are typically (not always, obviously) perceived and depicted as weak and commodified. Submissive. And this is a feeling that bleeds over outside of film, games, shows, or whatever. Whether you agree or not, there are hundreds of thousands of men who view women this way. Whereas an attractive man is typically depicted as dignified, independent. dominant.
And I think the push in the west to be more careful when sexualizing the female form is in a joint effort to recontexualize how, society on the whole, sexualizes the female form. To give women the power and control over how they are perceived. Rather than the through the “”””Male Gaze””””.
And until that standard is adequately deconstructed and women are perceived in a safer context, it’s important you present sexual content incredibly carefully and consciously out of respect for women who face abuse and assault from it.
@@sugarzblossom8168 It's the whole perceptive barrier kinda thing. If you barely have a diverse crew of developers or find out about people's interests the opposite of your gender, chances are, devs will just resort to what they know from their common peers. Societal pressure hampers this even more when guys and gals don't know how to even properly interact with each other.
tbf, Azur Lane is very sexualize because the way it's monetized is different from most gachas
most gachas don't give a lot invocation materials, while Azur Lane is very generous when it comes to most resources besides the "premium" money, so the devs decided to put the monetisation in the skins rather than make people pay to get more girls or be stronger faster
so they have to make characters hot enough so the player prefers / loves some of them and eventually spend some money to get new skins for his favourite ships
Sounds like poor business sense. They do realize the vast majority of money in f2p mobile comes from convenience-related purchases?
Azur Lane is the only gacha I play because I like the character designs, don't feel like I'm being ripped off, and don't feel that the game will shut down soon and waste my money.
@@ganshrio7336 The game is 7 years old at this point, and last month it made about 7million dollars. I'm pretty sure the devs know what they're doing.
Two things: small note for some people, women still CAN look mid or even ugly in games too, especially if most of the men are. Aloy is fine (not ugly anyways) having realistic features and doesn't mean other games can't still have supermodels (Eve is literally modelled after a Korean model so she may be a bad standard but she's not unrealistic.
And two: look at vtubers. Yes they make their models to grow an audience and sell themselves as a character (personality is so important though, a lot of the biggest ones are just entertaining, and some happen to be stacked). But they also are a representation of the person, usually when they have big honkers it's because the person behind the model either HAS big honkers or they LIKE that look, it's not shallow sexualisation to make your OC hot if you wanna feel hot yourself. But also for example, Matara Kan in Vshojo, she had a pretty standard anime level hot character design but not really sexualised, and actually stated she did not want to make her chest any larger. Then she got a new model in a very non revealing sweater but her assets had grown considerably. She didn't do it to make money, she had a VERY established fan base before Vshojo and then a ton of new Vshojo fans behind her. She did that because assumedly the artist likes drawing that and she thought screw it, why not have bigger milkers? Besides this, she really doesn't lean into fan service with lewd or dirty talk or bits, she's seen by her community as a wine mom and like actually mother not mommy. Sure some people will see her as a sex object but that goes for any hot person and even a lot of not hot people and that's on the viewer for objectifying. Anyways there's a recent ironmouse quote that most of the vtubers with big booba, HAVE big booba in real life. Anecdotally I haven't analysed the chest but every single vtuber I've seen irl male or female has been cute or hot, surely the "ugly men pretending to be hot girls" are out there somewhere but not any vtuber I've ever seen.
great video as always yooo
also, ULTRAKILL MENTIONED???!??!?!?!111!1
IT WAS SO UNEXPECTED
Unrelated but my brainrot preferences is based on a character (male or female) having white hair
so you like grannies?
As a bi woman that loves playing games, sexualization of female characters makes me uncomfortable - if I see that it is not a part of their personality, but just designed to please viewer. I enjoy female characters that are sexy and like to be sexy (Bayonetta for example). But when it is nudity for sake of it and it has nothing to do with personality, I feel like that kind of female characters was created just to objectify them, and anything else comes second. I can't relate to them, cause I don't want to feel objectified too. So I just avoid such content
But the video was interesting, thanks for good quality content!
i also completely agree!!
I respect that take too, it does that especially for characters who are shy to things like that.
I had a relevant experience with a gacha game and my girlfriend (bi and pan respectively )used to play: SNOWBREAK.
At first we loved the setting and the character designs, and while we agreed that the story was kinda bad, all characters were cool and interesting with very accentuated personalities, they were attractive but in a dignified way, there was fanservice but it was optional side content in the form of skins or as interactioes that were cute and cemented a sense of comraderie with the player.
And then the game started catering to a mainly chinese male audience, characters slowly became flanderized into making their entire personalities and lives revolve around how much they loved the main character, not only that but as new content dropped the designs were becoming more advertly sexualized and flirty towards the viewer with camera angles emphasizing this.
So we dropped it, we had already endured the slow character progression and the fact they removed all male npcs at the rewuest of the chinese fanbase, but what they did to one of our favorite characters was the straw that broke the camel's back.
You are not suposed to relate to them... guys like sex girls... all of this complexity you are talking about is the cherry... the first thing is... is this character hot? is this caracter showing their body? it objectifies them? dont really matter... majority of guys are just, well the character has a hot body?the character has a good voice? put fan service and guys will play a literal washing machine...
Again all of this you are talking about it does not matter to the majority of men, that is a reality women just can't accept.
@@elisehalflight majority of guys dont care about any of this you said... the game is doing more money them ever because of this, they removed the male npcs as they should because the game is made to make money, if guys are happy... is not really a problem, is just think this is not a game you should be gaming with your girlfriend at all... not to offend gamergirls are in majority mentally ill, better to have a normie girl.
Interesting that you say that Ruppee is shallow, yes on the surface she is, but she actually gets interesting character development on an event named Miracle Snow (which you can play on teh archive) don't gonna spoil it but she;s just a sweetheart, also you showed Yuni and Mihara a lot, they have a really interesting arc through the plot.
One of the videos of all time.
Love all your other content though.
As a woman I don't care, since they design nice husbandos as well 😌
Heck Yeah! Equal opportunity fan service for the win!
I'm reminded of something I thought of when I was playing Soul Caliber decades ago. Something like, "The ladies there are pretty heavily sexualized, but hey, we got some hot guys too, so at least it's equal-opportunity." I mean, if I were a straight girl, I'd be drooling over Kilik. Even as a straight guy, I can say, "If I *were* to bang one of the male SC characters..."
@@MrLightlike78 exactly
The answer is different wiring between men and women. Men are visual creature. Simple and easy. I don't know about women. I am a guy.
But one thing for sure, suits are sexy both for men and women. For an example, draw both male and female soldier in full service uniform and they rocks. Make it into an anime, cutesy style and everybody will be crazy.
About sexualization, here is the key. Take a good look at the discussion after the player finish the game. If they discuss the story/lore with sexualization as an afterthought, that means the game is good despite the sexualization.
I agree with all of this besides the first paragraph
Men and women are the same creatures… the belief that we’re biologically different is pseudoscience mostly. It only really applies in the heat of pubescent hormones
Of course men and women do act differently, but that’s all social. If men are “visual creatures” who just desperately need to see boobies to be happy, then, to be blunt, we would be no more socially capable as literal dogs. (Also gay men wouldn’t exist)
The fact that over time, less media has been over-sexualizing women in objectifying ways and more media has been sexualizing men should be proof that things do not need to be this way.
And things are changing for the better, despite what some people very desperate to see boobies all the time might think.
One day there will gacha games of men with fat bulges and fatter asses and you’ll see that so many women are “visual creatures” too lol (including me but I don’t play gacha games)
I remember asking what works better for chicks back in the day. Apparently it's more about subtle things and the feeling of something. Stuff like rolled up sleeves showing muscular arms with a bit of hair or a good looking guy with a nice suit and a tired expression with messy hair.
At least that's what a few women I knew told me.
@@bornanime3255 So it is more like specific feature of the body, right? Interesting.
However, you said about tired expression and messy hair.
It turns out men love these too. Including me.
Take a good look at fashion models. Both male and female models also have tired faces and/or messy hair. This is called aftersex/afterglow face by some people. As the name suggests, it is the expression after having sex.
"Take a good look at the discussion after the player finish the game."
Honestly, this is a very good benchmark. And really, once the story hooks you in, you won't even notice all the jiggling it could throw your way. Sure, you know it's the reason you're there, you make jokes about it with the bros, but once you're in deep, the only thing you'll be thinking in the long run are not the assets, but _"Jesus christ these people need a break, I just want them to be happy"_
@@XG417 punishing: gray raven
God bless the Phyrrhixz for opening the eyes to new fans about the lore and its characters. Hes always working hard on his videos of Nikke Goddess of Victory.
15:36 you bring up an interesting point.
The way I see it is that when it comes to male characters the focus is often shifted more to what the character is, does and represents and focuses less on how they look, even if that is still important.
Men are often considered attractive doe to what they are capable of, that can mean a lot of different things, but it is a very important thing, that's why a calendar with shirtless guys may sell but a calendar with shirtless firefighter men sells more.
Since you mentioned Genshin Impact, lets take a look at one of the fan favorites, Zhongli. He is handsome and has a nice voice, but he doesn't show a lot of skin, but he is not only dressed but very well dressed, he is also well read, polite, a bit of a know it all but definitely someone that you could talk to for 5 hours and not even notice, he also takes his promises very seriously, and in terms of gameplay he is skilled with the spear, looks cool using it and is a shield character, so there's the protector thing going on. All of these traits are part of why fans like him but they are also hinted at by his look and posture as well, showing less skin actually makes him more attractive because his clothes are expressing what he represents.
This is also what makes people like female characters but the balance is often shifted more towards the way they look in a sexual way first, specially when it comes to gacha games, but if that's all they have going on the character won't last long or will only attract very weird hyper focused fetish people.
Since I am more familiar with Genshin Impact I'll use another character from there: Noelle. She is a maid with some odd pieces of armor here and there and carries a big sword, is shorter than the tall characters in the game and is pretty, like all playable characters, but these are superficial traits. She has more going on. She is reliable, wants to help people even at the cost of her own health, she is strong and has goals, and when she fails she just gets back up and keeps going. Even in terms of gameplay she is good for new players and at C6 she is a beast, when she says "leave it all to me" she means it so she also has the protector aspect there. Her posture shows that she is polite and tries to be friendly, and even her armor that leaves vital parts of her chest and back exposed show her personality because she is putting her heart on the line, she uses herself as a target so she can protect others, it also shows that she is not dumb since her Geo magic allows her to generate shields so she is merely baiting the enemy into attacking her, so she is knight material on top of all.
Sorry for the long post, in short, fanservice is good when it hits that imperfect but fitting balance, those are the types of characters that we love and want to see in our games.
the reason male characters wear allot of clothes in this games is not because clothed males are sexy nonsense, is because chinese censorship prohibit having shirtless male characters so studios by pass that by drawing then wearing skin tight clothes and a jacked
Thank you. People mistaken a lack of product to a lack of want for a product.
I mean there are a few games that have men in outfits equivalent to what sexualised female characters wear but they aren't as popular but that's not to say that lots of women don't love them and regularly play and talk about them.
@@sugarzblossom8168 and those games are normally japonese games and not Chinese games
@@yokai1235 I mean Chinese companies do get away with the female characters
@@sugarzblossom8168 they don't
@@yokai1235k
This is why I like character customization, you decide, and if that's not an option I judge everything by the Bayonetta scale .
I stopped watching to write this really quick, but I really do love your content, they're so in depth and worded well, but they never feel degrading or pretentious. They acknowledge multiple angles while keeping your stance, and nothing feels out of place or unnecessary. Sorry if this is kinda weird, I just really appreciate your work and I can't wait to see more!
I really appreciate comments like these. I really try to do my best to not say anything that might in some way be disrespectful or inflammatory because the last thing I want is to make fun of a thing someone loves. Even posting this video I got a bit paranoid thinking that maybe I should have worded things a bit differently, but I'm glad to see that the reception has been mostly positive
I might be alone on this one, but since I’m a guy the first thing I look at when trying new characters is how cool/badass they are and how emotionally impactful they were in the story, if there’s any. I remember playing DMC5 for the first time as a newcomer to the series and I immediately picked Vergil for “obvious” reasons, but the thing is even if Vergil was absurdly speaking a female, I wouldn’t give 2 shits. When I play a game I know I’m playing a fictional product thus I already know that what’s happening doesn’t reflect reality. I think all guys have dreamed of cool fights at night at least once in their life and that’s literally all I ask for in games, which is why I never really cared about sexualization. If a character is cool/has an impact on me story/lore wise, that’s enough for me, Furina is the perfect example, I’ve never seen anyone sexualize her, and she’s probably the most respected female character in the Genshin community after playing the main story. Long story short fan service can be nice, but I’d rather play someone as cool as Vergil anyday rather than some girl with extreme bazoonkas from Azur Lane just because she’s hot😂
So long as women in my games doesn't boil down to: "I made her this way to make a political/ideological statement", I don't care much. But like everything, appearance is always a plus. You can be happy with a car that just works, but happier with a fancy looking car that looks gorgeous.
I think it's a bit cliche that people dismiss most/all characters with minority traits as 'virtue signalling'. As long as a character is written well it can work great. Honestly, evaluate what your idea of a "normal" character is and it is kind of telling. It's a white guy, probably? Same. Why should that be the norm, y'know?
Agreed
Would definitely recommend you play the old events. They are in the archives section within the commanders' quarters. The events and other activities bring allot of nikke's from the roster into them, and REALLY do a good job making you fall for them. Not all Nikke's are fleshed out yet. But many of them are. I don't see lifeless eyes.
0:17 what an intro😂😊
Your writing is really witty and funny, subbed
Hi there Haedal, have you ever tried Reverse 1999? Its the most philosophical and character rich gacha game I have ever played, and I'd love your take on the philosophy of mathematics
I looked it up and I really liked the aesthetic! I'll probably give it a try when I have a bit more time
The problem is that people donʼt realize characters can be blatantly sensual and profound at the same time. It doesnʼt need to be one in expense of the other & thatʼs what NIKKE does. Blatant sensual ladies with profound stories, but even if it they were just sensual it wouldnʼt be a problem of art.
For me it depends on how it’s handled. There’s the awesome ways to do it like Stellar Blade, Nier or King of Fighters where it’s the spice or in the case of Azure Lane it’s the point. But then there are cases where it is cringe or done in such a way it’s gross (the anime called Eiken comes to mind).
Also props for not parroting the same dull “y’all just want porn you virgins” talking point and actually being constructive.
It honestly has less to do with how it looks and more to do with how it's used.
A character being sexy doesn't matter on it's own, they can still have good dialogue and cool moments, they just look good.
But if you replace potential dialogue scenes or plot developing scenes for that character, with fanservice moments, then you have actively foregone good writing and replaced it with sexuality.
Now again I want to point out that sexuality isn't the core issue here, rather the reason it's being used, fan service. Fan service doesn't have to be sexual, it could be comedic and have the same effect, where you fore go character development and would rather make a character silly or do something they've done before because fans like it.
That is not an issue with comedy, that's an issue with bad writing as a result of lazy attempts at viewer/consumer retention, and to appeal to fans without any substance, sexualisation can be used the same way, but as a consumer you don't hate it because it's sexual, you hate it because it's being used in a lazy way when you know it could have been done better.
Exactly, I like how in Nier Automata 2B is definitely designed with some sex appeal in mind, but the game won’t deliberately focus on it. When 2B and 9S clothes get obliterated there’s no comment on it either. It’s treated more nonchalantly and not like this “big” thing worth loosing the mind (and Noseblood) about.
It’s “respectful” sexualization
But the point you made in the bottom is just objectively correct, anyone who thinks fan service is good is just a coomer. They simply are virgins that just want porn. It's different from just having good looking characters. Tomb Raider 2013's lara croft is very good looking but obviously not coomer bait.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 The porn argument does not work when pornography is just one click away on a computer or phone these days. Some of us just like seeing sexy shit regardless and just want to have fun, especially if that was the gimmick as advertised (me personally tho I’d rather play something on the level of Stellar Blade whose protagonist looks cool and has banger costumes, as opposed to something like Onechambara which is a T-square linear zombie slayer game with a heroine who is a fashion nightmare). Not saying there aren’t people who strictly do want that but I wouldn’t call them the majority either.
@@alexkogan9755 Believe me man, it's the majority
Nice. A very earnest an interesting dip into this complex topic. Also as someone who never plays gacha games (don't trust myself to play them responsibly), it was interesting to hear about the depth behind the women in Nikke. I feel like that does say some about in-game presentation, as you pointed out.
It actually has me thinking of Skyrim in a way. Skyrim was game with really impressive and interesting LORE. However, once it came to the actual storytelling of the game, it mostly fell flat on its face. Based on this video, it sounds like there was a similar discrepancy when it came to the characterization of Nikke's character's. I mean, that was the mission statement and the fanservice certainly met a need among its customer base, but as a writer myself, I feel for all that characterization that seems to have been left in the lore pages.
Loved your video! You have such a nice sense of criticism and self awareness! Also I would “sexualize” your voice! Just kidding haha! Anyway! I think the reason that female characters have less clothes is because “man’s neurons” are more commonly activated by that, by what they visualize first, while “woman’s” are more focused in a different type of sexualization, even the occupation,voice,age of a man can be sexualize by woman.
Also according to Psychology woman’s tends to feel violated much easier, that is some of the reason they feel so offended by sexualization in anime girls while they sexualize hell lot of anime boys like alhaitham and Scaramouche…Just because they don’t usually make suggestive fan art of characters doesn’t mean they don’t sexualize a hell lot of them in fanfics. The world would be simple if people just accept that sexuality is part of what makes a human being and that different genders sexualize in different ways!
To end my comment, there are people that looks like just as anime characters, even the small ones and are grown adults… People that see a problem with it should seek therapy (anyone should take care of mental health, but these people are clearly suffering to problematize this)
Male ASMR is a thing. I myself listen to it sometimes even if I am almost entirely heterosexual.
@@azradun3903 Bro.....
2. About the sexualisation of men I notice that more men discuss what they think it is.
I believe that at least some skin is necessary if not tight form fitting clothes are good.
I had seen a post about what men think a sexualised man is vs a woman or something like that and from everything I have seen over months and all the argument, it is clear to me that for some reason men think a man being is sexualised eveb if they are over dressed they think women can't just over men's body pr men cannot wear revealing outfits, they think that women sexualise personality only. They mistaken attractive for sexualisation and argue with actual women when they try to complain about the lack of sexualised men or equality when it comes to sexualisation because you have all these examples that women don't even consider as examples.
There is this film about male dancers and top many men say how this film taught them that ....women....are....into sexual(ised) men/thing? Which is shocking to me.
Reused comment:
1)And that's the problem people talk about not knowing how to sexualise men but don't ask women and even argue with them when women disagree.
I saw a post about what men thunk is sexualised (a man wearing normal fitting clothes) vs what women actually find as fanservice (a man in a very tight suit from head to toes.
Also look up nu carnival and oni onsen.
I'd push back a bit as men and women sexualize those they're attracted to more similarly at an innate level (though cultural differences in how men and women are treated and perceived does cause much more of a divulgance in this behavior) but women can find exposed skin hot, men find the subtler things about a character attractive. I think in general if we trended towards sexualizing characters the way we do male characters rather than objectifying them the way a lot of female characters are it would go a long way to improve everyone's enjoyment of the game. I agree that we should be more willing to accept human sexuality though, that's a good step forward
Thank you Master Miller for your insightful opinion. See you next mission.
"I love women" into drum and bass is the best intro to a youtube video ever.
I actually subscribed when that happened, like there's no way they actually just did that... they did though.
I honestly totally agree that sexual components really never adds to content and I loved you used my dress up darling. I honestly would ah evprefered the show if they didn’t make such a big deal like they do.
Personally, I dont really fet the need for deep characters, depending on how were defining deep. Yes, a character should actually be a character ( plot, story, reactions, etc) but I fail to see why it needs to be super complex or in-depth to be good, nor why they must either be a stereotype or defy expectations, instead of just doing what they would do in a given situation ( without breaking character all of a sudden).
I think men are sexualized more over the status and function than their body. As you said, suit or uniform, both are about a function. The (handsome) successful man. (in case of suit). The integer and dependent man (in case of uniform). And that has been going on for far longer than just now. Also watch Conan the barbarian. That is male sexualization for heterosexual males. All in all veery good video, thank you for your hard work :)
I actually saw someone arguing that Eve, and in general, Stellar Blade, isn't hot enough. This was after the game released, but really, she''s very plain of a character. If you want to make a sexy character, their personality should be attractive too, and it doesn't have to come to disrupt the story in any way. For example, in Bayonetta, Cereza is a very well fleshed character. There are so many details in the way she acts and dresses that add to her character. She's also sexy, a big part of the gameplay is her owning her feminity. One thing that is interesting is that many kinds of people find her attractive, men and women alike. I wish that Eve's sexiness added to her character, but most of the time in the game, she doesn't do much to show her personality.
Good video. Compelling analysis and points. Was an enjoyable watch.
Also Lumen my sweet sweet boy (-;-;)-
Careful with that opening statement. Jocat was bullied off the internet for liking women.
No, you see, it was because he made liking women sound gay /s
No but fr, you'll see a lotta lefties tryina push this narrative and while I don't doubt a sizable part of the backlash was from right-wing chuds, I'm pretty sure the worst of it was from lefties who sicced their fanbases on him, as he himself stated people he looked up to turned their back on him.
Honestly? After his hogwarts legacy statement I'll be hard-pressed to care. Shoe on the other foot and all that.
He was bullied off the internet for trying badly to do the uwu internet catboy schtick.
@@mr.selyumor5402 He was bullied to be to "gay" in liking women. The contradictions and the insecurity of some males are apparent.
Too many people were upset that him liking women was "too gay" which is insane
@@stegosandrosos1291 Really? That's weird, because he mentioned that people he looked up to turned on him and joined the hate mob. You think he looked up to manosphere influencers, the kinda limp-dicks who would do the "he made liking women gay" shit?
For me, I love characters like Violet Evergarden, Mikasa and Erza Scarlet because they've shown love and compassion to the people they care about.
Erza on the other may have her sexy moments like in the movie Dragon Cry but I think she's an amazing character by being a big sister to her guild mates.
Mikasa is a badass Ackerman who isn't that much sexualised but people remember her for her action scenes in the early seasons.
Violet is a girl (apparently, she's 14 ) who wants to understand what love is and suffers the loss of her captain which made her want to become a doll and write letters for people. She may not dress in such revealing attire but her character is what made me fall in love with her. And also, she was a child solider and being such a young age, experiencing harsh violence front and centre while not being fazed by it.
One of the reasons one of my favorite games of all time is Limbus Company is because the sexualization in that game is non-existent.
Simply comparing any of the character designs to the likes of Nikke tells you all you need to know.
Limbus, nor any of its franchises, has ever even hinted at anything sexual, with the exception of maybe Lobotomy Corporation, the first game of the franchise which had a couple rather voluptuous character designs (but even that was purely visual, and on top of that, is arguably extremely tame in comparison to most other games). Early on, the game reinforces the idea that sex and gender are not a dividing factor in the universe- everyone are legitimate equals in the way that everyone is subject to the same, harsh conditions of the City, and everyone has the means to try their best to survive in those harsh conditions- meaning that the only thing that really separates people is what they can bring to the table. It couldn't care less about who you are.
It's one of the first games I've played (and the same goes for all Project Moon games) that really focuses on them just being people. There's no need to rely on some horny bait to draw players in. No need to objectify characters. Even when the characters do get "sexualized," (I'm talking the Molar Ishmael ID and the Molar Sinclair ID which can hardly even be called sexualization) you don't even really notice. None of it is forced or out of character, and none of it is made or designed specifically for the reason to arouse you. They are simply very well written, realistic, and reasonable characters and that's it. They're just characters who you can, and who the game expects you to, like for their actual character and personality. I'm more tired of people finding ways to justify the use of sexualization without seeing that most if not all media can do just fine without it, as long as it has actual integrity beneath the sexualization. Why bait people into consuming your product by capitalizing on their horniness, rather than just letting your story and world speak for itself? It lowers the integrity of your product overall through the use of it, because it essentially indirectly tells the consumers that: "No, we didn't have enough confidence in our writing that people would actually want to play our game without big anime biddies swaying around in their faces." I know in the majority of cases we are just talking about videogames or gachas specifically, but I still think that people are entitled to good, well-written stories. Games shouldn't be held back because of the fact that they are games, and people shouldn't feel as if this is the level of quality they should expect from all their games coming forward. But I digress.
It's all about Perspective!
Nikke does suffer from extreme tone changes between the various characters, and quite often the personalities really don't match the appearance of the Nikkes themselves, and that's coming from a daily player.
Some of the supposedly deepest characters have foot-deep personalities, while in some other completely random cases, you get philosophical talks on the level of good visual novels. The partner of Centi, who you presented in the video, Liter, goes from a fun episode about Anis not cleaning her room to existential horror and nihilism at the drop of a button. Meanwhile Admi is about liking cats. ... And that's it.
Nice video 👍
I hoped you'd bring up cases of Estelle vs Gravel in arknights. I haven't gotten far, but for now it seems like there can be ways to explain why do they dress and behave how they do and the degree of alignment/discrepancy in those for the two. I hope to see some interesting and possibly sad story for Gravel while Estelle seems a bit of a weirder case, but my hopes are there. Care for a deep dive? )
Also Matoimaru is cool.
Either way, have a good one!)
I think one of the issues is that people may avoid playing games with overly sexualized characters. I always steer clear of games with overly sexualized characters. But then again, I’m female, so maybe it can’t pull me in like it can a guy haha
The whole "fully covered but still hot" thing doesn't just apply to men though, it can apply to women too. Arlecchino is hot as hell and she's not showing anything.
All I want to say is that it was so nice when Arlecchino from Genshin was coming out and all her drip marketing had all the typical gooners just repeatedly saying how hot she is. I'm currently playing WuWa, I picked female Rover and pulled on my new main Yinlin, ok, I love some good booba too and, like, Rover's thigh chub lol. But seeing how a fully dressed gacha woman, who goes by Father, had men drooling was so nice. I pulled Arlecchino too. Like, she is really attractive.
I think the deal is variety and, like you have said, it makes sense kinda or not be just only gooner bait. It's ok if it's gooner bait too, but variety in the women is really nice. Characters like Arlecchino in design and story are nice. Undercover agents like Yinlin being sexy is nice. Etc etc.
I really like how you defined 'strong female character' because I feel like people miss the mark a lot when talking about them, either only looking at (usually physical) strength, or the female part, when the most important part of the phrase is the character
I like to compare character design to the icing on a cake: if the icing is there to complement/support the dough or if it is there to replace/compensate for the dough. yes there is no problem the icing be the firts thing to attract attention, but it's a problem when it's the only thing that has or this does not fit the proposal
I think that is a good analogy but highlights my issue with disliking sexualisation as a result of poor game design.
Take your example, if I have a cake with no icing that's fine, but a cake with icing is a bonus. However, if I have a shoddy cake where the ingredients were bad and were mixed poorly, if there were icing or not, the cake is still shoddy, and if there were icing, I wouldn't say the cake was made worse because of the icing, I would just say the cake is bad and the icing either doesn't improve it or improves it in a minor way without any textural value.
This is how I feel about games and other media using sexualisation, I don't care about it whether the game is good or bad, if the game were bad, then the game is bad, sexualisation has no part in that, I might like the pictures now but I'm not playing the game regardless. But if the game were good then yeah I'm playing the game, and hell if I like the pictures, that's a bonus.
In this way I can't attribute sexualisation as a bad thing here, I'm applying my negative feelings of certain aspects and displacing them onto something else with no real logical basis to it.
Now ofcourse you can take issue with sexualisation itself, but that would be the difference in what type of icing you like so to speak, some people like different types of icing and that's okay. You may not like the sexualisation and see it as degrading or dehumanising, but not everyone else will see it that way, it's subjective to the individual and there's nothing objectively wrong with it where we can say it therefore deserves removal or should never be done because it's labelled "bad", as simply put not everyone will agree and some people want that kind of icing on their cake, you'd only be depriving customers of a product you don't even want to buy.
@@EyesDontCry fr too much icing is icky
@@EyesDontCry Mostly agreed, but also if the base cake is great and you put way too much icing it *would* make the cake worse
God tier editing and script btw
My girlfriend summarized it the best:
If I'm going to be a fantasy woman, I want to be the prettiest/sexiest one
But why tho? Why must she be be pretty or sexy? How does it add to the characters development and goals, and so on? What’s the benefit to it? Just looking good and fuckable?
Im just gonna write something here just to boost the algorithm great video man
"When i say Dorothy what do u remember " doro!
4:24 I think one thing to note is that the human eye is attracted to motion, as we are a species that largely relies on eyesight for safety. It's a shame this objection falls apart when you notice just how hard it is to focus on any details (compared to any other thing you can observe).
And I wonder how much of male sexualization being far more subdued (unless you look at yaoi) has to do with that it's not like we have much to hide. Being toned is kind of expected, and implicit from wearing business casual (and not being chunky).
My stance on the subject:
I don't want games to be sexualized.
BUT.
You don't have to make sexual characters to make good-looking characters.
You can have characters that look good, but aren't being sexualized, and that is what I believe we should aim for.
Thats a perfectly fine opinion, I personally dont agree. I love sexualization and I dislike any kind of puritan stance on how characters should be protrayed. With that said, its fine if you prefer and only play games that dont have sexualization, just as long as you dont think that you're opinion is the law and everyone should be forced to make and create games that only pander to your own world views.
@@GlaDos321 Of course people are free to do as they wish, as long as they aren't taking it too far.
Again, I only have an issue with it if it interferes with the game or character in a bad way.
Otherwise I don't really care.
And most people really shouldn't.
W take
Finally an adult talking here!!!!
18:05 "Let me use this as an excuse to look at twinks-"
*pulls up picture of Wanderer*
That shit caught me off guard, I was not mentally prepared 😭 thanks for the laugh 👍
Uh yah, wandering forever 🍃
Also what kind of eldritch monstrosity are u trying to kill that u need Blaze, Gavial, HORN AND TYPHOON dealing with the same lane 💀
a big part of the sexualization of male characters, for the ladies you will notice that none of them are bald or even buzzcut or have any facial hair, while in reality those hairstyles are common with men.
male gamers, however, seems to like baldies and facial hair more, evident by the common male protagonist, particularly from the PS3 generation where I think gaming is still predominantly male.
The nature of this conversation lies in how many people find this important and how strongly. I'd say that sexualization is just a trait and people are free to appraise it as good or bad with a caveat: the moment your harmless beliefs(this case finding fictional hot characters good/bad) is projected to another person with harmful intent or you see others who disagree with you as less of a person than you are then we have a problem, because that means this is not just a perceived idea, but a form of faith that has integrated to a person's sense of self, which causes the person to harm others that harm their sense of self(people who disagree).
Another problem of fixating over hot designs to an extreme degree, no matter as good or bad, is that it is a binary way of viewing things. For example perhaps one may stop looking at the character's story/gameplay/lore because they are too fixated over how the characters are designed. In this case, I pray they have the strength to getting over it because yeah getting rid of a faith can be hard af.
For my personal case, I'm more on the horny side but nevertheless if people don't dig hot characters(for example perhaps they're too distracting or they feel lechery on the fictional character), then I am willing to see them as an equal person at starting point. They are completely free to report their discontent as long as they don't view people who disagree as less of a person, me included within this context. They are also free to choose not to consume the content just as I am free to do so.
There's more factors than just horniness factor guys, if you're very fixated on it in either ways you risk experiencing less on content thus less fun. For example in Arknights I started with Shining Swimsuit as my main assistant but now it's Penance because her story, gameplay, and character is so good. And if you like Shining Swimsuit then I also wish you well, she's hot af. Even if you're a furry and like Mountain, all the power to you
So I think you're getting at a free speech absolutist take here, right?
Simple answer is Yes. Beautiful characters draw people in, the story/characters then get to take over.
I'm honestly convinced that, aside from the obvious reason of "seggs sells", the sexualisation of the Nikkes is an intentional bait and switch. While the marketing of the game does everything to objectivy the characters, the game itself does a lot to subjectivy them. It offers multible forms of interactions and thus opportunities for characterization, it has: Advise sessions, Bond stories, random encounters, blabla messages, relatively frequent cameos in event stories, side stories and of course its main story.
I also like to think that Nikke has no real filler, as the slice of life stuff serves to humanize the characters. Whose humanity is exactly what you are fighting for in the story.
A good direct example is Diesel. I don't understand (though i'm aware that it is done by people) how anyone could shamelessly lust after her, after reading her bond story. That's just me though, and i'm aware that i'm probably taking this game's story a bit too seriously.
I think a lot of people forget that, on a fundamental level, one of our biggest collective sexual turn-ons is a pretty face.
You give a character a pretty face and you barely have to do anything with the body. They can be at least decently chubby (see: Mei, Elegg 🥚), and even at higher levels of body fat there are people who will be into them. You can make them tall or short. Big or small breasted. The hips/ass area is probably the only other place you'll want to be particular, but even then you just have to not fuck it up entirely and you'll get a good number of submissions on [redacted].
I think in general, men find attraction more in the visuals while girls find attraction more in traits, manners and actions, but hey that's my theory.
I think that's just because women's bodies are more sexualised though, rather than it being a natural thing, because if you go to cultures where women go topless boobs aren't sexualised, theyre just seen as a normal body part. The men aren't going round aroused all the time. In general I think your statement is somewhat true, like as a straight woman abs and muscles are hot and everything but its not like boobs for example where you can get off to them. That being said I still think men are hotter in less clothing than more, its just that the effect is less dramatic maybe than for straight men. Sorry this wasn't very well worded but yh this is just my personal experience.
@@franisthebest1234
Thank you for sharing your opinion. It does make sense that, in the end, less is hotter. But yeah, as you stated, what I meant is that, in general, the effects are less dramatic in women (or at least that's from my observations) than men.
This has to be one of the funniest intros i've seen in a video.