I still remember when I went from running a money collection agency to charging 50% upfront...to just taking 100% upfront. lol. Turns out that the good clients that were ready to put down 50% upfront were ok with putting down 100%. Chris is a real champion of the people. Crazy thing is, I do better work when I'm not worried about being paid.
GREAT VIDEO!!! Thanks so much! P.S. May I ask you guys to add a 80hz cut, plosives reduction vst or just stop speaking directly into the mic and stuff? I see you as professionals, but that sound is really distracting, sometimes. Please don't do that shit, man: 17:50... 11:08 :) Much love.
It's easy to confidently set your price when your rent being paid doesn't depend on whether or not you get the job. BUT, knowing your worth confuses people and makes them respect you and your work a lot more. I've had clients leave me on read, then come back in two weeks to confirm the job.
Thanks for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I went from $300-$500 gigs to $2000 gigs in my area from watching The Futur. Honestly it was from 1 episode or discussion he had. I cant recommend his channel enough
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing, 3 revisions. Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
whenever a client tells me the bs of ''oh we will have many many more projects ;like this ''... i always reply by saying.. let's put that in the contract with a deadline.. and if those project won't materialise you will have to pay me the extra on my fee... if they say no (which all of them do...).. that means there isnt any future project because they are just winging it with no clear future plan. always have a fixed fee (that is realistic for your work). always over deliver and be nice to work with. the best clients i have are the ones who actually offered me more money because of the experience of work was so smooth they enjoyed it and had a product that superseeded their expectations! finally , half-day fee is full day fee. because once a day is booked you cannot double booke it for something else... the bs of '' it will just take a couple of hours...'' '' just a quick edit...'' 99% of the time that's BS... best of luck to us all in this crazy jungle ...
When I heard that, I interpreted it as "we just won't use him again after we underpay him the first time" and that it could be a frequent strategy. Like Uber/Lyft having "independent contractors" because the company avoids the liability/compensation from hiring a full time employee.
Thanks so much for this comment, Nabda Art! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning. I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth. How do you do that?
I've been in the biz for 20+ years and I have to say your "Slimy Producer" is so spot on for 95% of the people who have contacted me out of the blue looking for a deal. Pro tip for newbies: Whenever anyone says "there'll be a lot more work coming down the road if things work out well..." RUN! Great negotiating tips from you guys. Early on in my career, I worked with a great audio guy. When producers would ask him what his day rate was and he'd tell them, they'd invariably say "Oh...That's a little more than we had budgeted... What's your half-day rate?" And he'd give them the exact same rate. He may have lost some biz sticking to his guns, but in the end, he ALWAYS got his day rate and never wavered. I learned a lot from him. (You guys too... Keep up the great work!)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Do you have tips for newbies who don't have a strong enough portfolio? I did mostly travel promotion videos, but due to the pandemic, I've lost my job. I've been trying to get jobs in product shoots, real estate shoots etc, but they all say I'm lacking in experience. I've only been in this for 8 months before the pandemic. And half the work I've done can't be released as my clients are taking forever to launch it and I can't show full proof apart from snippets in my reel. One client even refused to pay me and ran away with the 720p 10Mbps cheap sample I gave. Just lost another job quoting $180 per 30s of completed video, not inclusive of equipment/music. Am I being too overboard? Even students charge $50-100 per hour... It's getting frustrating. I'm turning to odd jobs to support myself now. Even full time offers are just pure bullying. They want me to take photos, videos, edit, manage social media, have 3 years experience in Illustrator/PS, all for $1800/month. I'm trying to build/diversify my portfolio so I can apply for a wider range of jobs, but some people tell me I shouldn't diversify and just stay focused on one thing or my portfolio will be garbage. I'm so lost...
@@professionalpotato4764 A lot of people have to break themselves at some lower end job while doing their passion as a side hustle, definitely keep up with your portfolio but obviously you've still gotta eat. Negotiation isn't always purely dollars, even with regular jobs but you do have to consider the position and the possible number of applicants. As Chris said, reward your loyal customers/clients and be creative with negotiating. If you've reached their budget max, see if they'll throw in an extra week or two of vacation time or letting you work from home one a week or biweekly. Or give a deadline, "Alright, I see this is the max of your hiring budget. As an solution that could be mutually beneficial to both of us; if I grow the department by 25% in the next six months, we can revisit the table for compensation? (AND always get it in writing!!)
Thank you, gentlemen, for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is soooooo scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects. So scary to ask for the money you want and deserve. People don't know what this video editing is worth. Add audio-editing on top, also some images (cause you had the camera with you and said "Let me take some photos too, while I am here...") and they still treat you like shit. That can be so discouraging, at times. Only thing that keeps me here is the passion for video and film. Otherwise, hasta la vista!
@@professionalpotato4764 Hi I know how you feel about being ripped off and this is why a contract is important so that both parties agree the deliverable against expectations. When they sign agreement (no matter how small the job is) they are agreeing to your terms and you have recourse...without this you have nothing and it gives the opportunity for people to take advantage. People are not what they always seem in business. You are in business and building a business and clientele is hard work. You need to build your portfolio but I believe diversifying may mean you become okay at many things but a master of none. If real estate is your goal then stick to this. Go out and film family and friends homes (the richer the better) and if not find a prospect who will let you film for free providing you can use your own work in your portfolio. If you look at this as doing something for nothing then you are not looking at it as your investment in you and your skills. I would strongly suggest building your reputation around what you are best at and love filming most. Good luck...
the people who disliked this are the people for whom these rates are impossible because they don't live in cities with population bigger than some countries :/
@@bqgin The people living in these cities with populations larger than your whole country probably have to pay multiple times as much in cost of living as well. If you don't live in these cities and you believe your work deserves this "impossible rate", move to one of those cities so you can charge that rate.
@@johnc417 "move to those cities" oh yes, why didn't I think of that? It's so easy! I mean the plane ticket to LA or NY is only worth 15 of my whole monthly salaries! And it's not like due to currency exchange and taxes in my country everything is 5 times more expensive than in california, and it's not like there are any immigration regulations, I can just leave whenever I want! Thank you for opening my mind, you really changed my life.
@@stefanomaggio5109 no it's not. For minimum wage in Poland you can buy 2-3 times less food, 3-4 times less square meter of a flat, and 15 times less gasoline than for minimum wage in LA. Not to mention 7 times less filming equipment.
I've learned so much from Chris - from simply saying no & not working with bad clients, charging MUCH more, holdng very high standards in pre-production & making contracts. I am working less while earning more, and life gets a lot nicer for everyone :) P.S. I was also able to convince clients to spend extra on renting ARRI Alex Mini cameras on shoots. It's a business, they have money, just keep that in mind!
Yeah I've had people walk away but often they walked away like "This isn't an investment I can make but when I've got the money I'm coming back." And I really do believe them.
@Henry Hodge: Thanks for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing. Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
I often start with a 10-20% margin added on so I can lower down to my normal rate to be flexible. most of my repeats get discounted rates but the few pains don't.
Did you watch the video? No one is going to tell you and exact fee. Sounds like you don’t have experience so you should probably do it for free to get experience.
@@thirstygreek Did you not watch the video? They even referenced rookies taking exposure dollars, it's like an unpaid internship promising work experience, that has no promise of materializing to actual dollars.
Easy tally up the total time it takes for the entire project and multiply it by the $15 min wage number. After a couple of those projects you will get more and more experience which it seems like you are lacking. Invest that money back into yourself, your business and your equipment and start to slowly raise your prices based on results.
@18:50 >> The minute a client decides to pick a call and talk to you (or even if they called you on their own) THEY HAVE DECIDED TO WORK WITH YOU. Bullshit ! What idealism ! Ive seen clients who call 20 professionals for 1 job, in fact they hire jobless underpaid interns to sit and call 'service providers' (like us) and talk a deal with all of them to finally pick just one. They will talk as if your the only one they are calling and they want to get started working with you from tomorrow morning. Then they will take your quote (which they wanted so urgently) and just vanish. The next day on it doesn't look so urgent and they wont even pick your follow up call. Honestly, today for the amount of good filmmakers looking for work. A real client will not talk so many values, here its a set-up its rigged and so hes just going on upping his offer. In the real world, the client will never up the value not even more than once as cunning mktg managers or business owners (who happen to be the clients) know its a dead give-away that they are desperate for you and will finally settle for your value. It shows that they are just haggling for the sake of it. In the real world. The client asks you how much, then says they'll get back to you. He does that with 15 more video guys and then gets back to whom he feels is the best deal with a good magic number. Nothing, just how much will you charge, ok thank you, well get back to you. That's how it works and that's how they do it in my country etc, in my 35 years of experience with the entertainment industry, ive never seen one client pitching multiple upped offers like this to look like a wimp. My clients are all dignified beggars. They will do the method i recounted always by default.
I was approached by a major record label (one of the big 4's) to work on a music video. Budget was around £5,000, I got paid £500 to Direct, DP and Edit once costs and crew fees were paid. I was also promised that they'd be working with me on 8 music videos in total which would increase in budget for every music video. So of course, I jumped at the chance to do it to build a nice relationship with this record label. They went to LA to do the third video. Funnily enough, that 3rd video which they told me would have a budget of £2,000 had around 30 people as a crew. Long story short, a major label will fork out money if they have to. Knowing me, I'll prob be an idiot and still accept being lowballed because it's work. Interested to see if they come back to me for the fourth video once covid is over.
Music videos are tough and to be honest many of the best DP’s I know aren’t making close to $1500 a day on these kinds of jobs. No need to beat yourself up. Your work will dictate your price, but don’t be afraid to say no. If they’re decent people, they should never be offended when you pass on a project.
@@thefutur So true unfortunately, when I started doing higher-end editorial I started saying "no" to anything corporate, then they doubled my rate and I still said no... then they nearly tripled it lol. Gotta know your worth! 👍
2000 pounds for 30 people?????????????????? WTF???? Man! I would just go on the set, with some popcorn in my hand and tell them I have off today and just came for a walk...
This is amazing.... I would like to know: When you are speaking of an 8-hour day e.g. when does it start? Just so you can make clear when overtime begins. I would say, the minute you leave the house, your working day starts, but it can also start when you arrive on set. What are your thoughts on that?
If you are advising you will be working an 8 hour day for $900 + Overtime at $100 an hour then this would be actual work on set. Your contract should advise clarity on any other inclusions such as travel costs and time taken to get to and from location and whether this is included. Chris Do advises an 8 hour day and that his usual 12 hour day rate (for shooting with 2 assistants) is $1500 and both parties should have made clear any other additions that made up this time. But as this was a straight negotiation for price I believe that as he advised in summing up he wouldn't want to have a bad taste left in his mouth about retrospectively asking for overtime unless this was agreed and written into the contract. One of the important things Chris did not include was 'make sure you write the contract' or at least make sure they agree to your full offer in writing and signed before proceeding...hope this helps.
Amazing video as always...freelancing is hard as fuck these days in Hollywood CA. Need permits which they arent issuing until they feel its safe....even when they do you need an on site medical person who constantly takes peoples temps. EVERYONE who attends set that day must prior first self-quarantine for 5 days before they can even step foot on set. Actors cannot touch or kiss and if they do it must be done via CGI or clever camera angle tricks. ITS ABSURD. Now if I wanted to go super super freelance, indy film maker and shoot a quiet music video with low staff and only the musical artist then yes we can sneak that by as long as we dont use a huge set and shoot off site in obscure locations. Independent music videos for underground artists are like the only thing poppin right now and you cant charge them a lot because A: they dont have a lot of money. B: Like I stated above we dont have a permit so its already sketch as it. Finally C: People seem to just be shooting stuff themselves and not hiring people.... This is an awkward and scary time for film makers...im about to sell all my gear and get into video game streaming....at least I have control of my set, cameras, OBS/editing and my content and im getting paid without the hastle of the aforementioned above.
This is great. I love watching both of these channels! Here is some interesting information I got from this as a producer: the rate ($900/8) would actually cost more than $1500 if they want for a full 12 hour day. Here is the breakdown: $900 / 8 = $112.50 per hour (Straight time). For time and a half, you would multiple the straight time rate by 1.5 to get his overtime rate of $168.75 per hour. So an 8 hour day would be $900 and if they went to 12 hours you would multiple the time and half rate by 4 (hours) to get a total of $675 for the 4 hours of time and a half and then add that with the $900 to get a grand total of $1,575 for a 12 hour day. Extra fun note: I believe in California (I'm in Texas) the hourly rate over 12 hours is double time after 12 hours. So if they went over 12 hours the hourly rate would jump to $225 per hour for Chris. This was a very realistic exchange and I appreciate the negotiations by Chris and Moses along with the entire video. Due to scenarios like this, I prefer to work with hourly rates more than "day" rates. I find more people appreciate that than just saying "the day rate is $500." Most seasoned DPs or crew members will usually ask, "how long is the day?" when you mention a day rate. That pretty much happened near the end of the discussion which was great. It allowed the negotiations to get into the hourly rate versus the day rate. Since Moses knew information about the shots, director, etc that he brought up, this allowed him to bring up the idea that maybe they could hire Chris for $900/8. I love working with producers like that, they know the ins and outs of the overall creative and production which can give them leverage in negations. Once again, great video. Hopefully, they kept it an 8 hour day ;)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
@@michaelthomas3532 Very cool! I have worked with a couple of post facilities that charge close to the $600 per hour edit. Very nice facilities and edit bays too!
glad to see the breakdown. I think when mosses agree to overtime, I felt pretty safe moving forward. everything takes longer than you think. so it was going to work on in my favor.
I just scored my first $1000 gig to make a 60 second promo video containing just royalty free stock footage, a fiverr voice-over, and a few motion graphics. I would've charged like $300 for that in the past, but I told myself I wouldn't sell myself short anymore on what I believe I'm worth. Mind you, in the past I filmed a wedding that took 3 days of filming, 17 to 20hrs of editing for a 5minute long wedding video for only $800. I made more money on 20x less of a workload just bc I held my ground strategically on what I believe I'm worth. If you're capable of exceeding expectations in work quality, never sell yourself short.
In real life, the client has left the chat way before you could even start a lesson in philosophy about hypothetical income which hasn't even been accomplished. Sorry Mogul, but this video way too misleading. It may work for cinematographers who are already established on some point. But absolutely not for an upcomig independent film maker. Thats actually all what Chris delivers all the time: "Be ready to say no". Thats easy talk for someone who shows nothing but role-plays.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
0:15 That is unless you're college students and they were expecting you to do it for little to nothing. And then they hire someone local that does such a horrible job you'd think it was shot by elementary school kids.
Never been into business myself, but a couple times people have asked me for advice on pricing their own work and I'm ALWAYS kinda baffled by how low people set themselves, from digital design to drawings to hand-knitted stuff, they ALL set some price that barely covered initial costs for no real reason.
That first one "We've got more projects in the future. Just work for super cheap this time so we can underpay you again in the future!!" Why do clients always think that's an enticing offer? lol
Oh man the irony here is that I'm more used to "our budget is £100 per day", where my actual rate is £500 per day. (£500 is about $625 USD) and working my way up to there, but this is all really great stuff.
The crossover ive been waiting for. Even though most of The Futur focuses mostly on design, so much of the concepts translate to videography seamlessly
Really handy to see actually how a negotiation would happen. As many books as you can read - I think case studies like this go a long way. Thank you Chris for coming on and Ted for hosting! 👏🤗🙏
This is awesome. Chris, when you set up the 8 hour day, what happens when it reaches the 8-9hr? Once it reaches the 8th hour, do you approach the producer? How is this setup and dealt with on set? Thanks in advance!
you should have the conversation with the producer if you know 6 hours in that it's not going to happen so that they can make the necessary calls and get the budget approved.
Wow, this is brilliant. I've had so many conversations like this as a photographer. Thank you for this super helpful video and for starting this conversation to educate more people about better negotiating practices as an artist. Thanks, Chris and Ted.
too many variables. but that sounds like a lot of work (shooting, editing, scripting). try estimating days of shooting + prep days X DP rate and then add your days editing X editing rate + gear rental
Any tips on finding those first jobs out of film school, where I don't have a huge portfolio and potential clients want to pay well under what I need to pay rent etc
Had they countered with "well what if you cut one of your crew guys since this is a relatively small low budget project?" Or had they asked how much does your cost crew? Is that info that you would give out?"
Thanks -- this is very useful as it's way more concrete than a lot of other suggestions I've seen. Before I knew about "anchor bias" I remember being amazed at auctioneers who'd throw out a number to start bidding, then work their way down, and lo and behold, the price would come back to that starting mark ever single time. The "we have more work" -> "buy in bulk" analogy was spot on: "great, we'll set up a contract for 5 shoots and you'll get a better price."
So in this example the producer really wanted the DP. What if you talk with the producer a bit about the rate but in the end he says ok i cant pay that i am gonna have to look for someone else. But you think that this project could be cool and you want it. What do you do then???
What are exact things I should clarify with my client. For example: how long the shoot, overtime, and how many revisions. What is that entire list of things we need to set in stone in the beginning?
first, know what your costs are. if you do it for less than X you will lose money. Make sure you take into consideration all the non-billable time as well such as, meetings, coordination, prep, etc… Try to find out the value to the client. Why does this matter to them? the difference between the cost to make and value to the client is part of the art & science of pricing.
I loved this! Question/request - I’m in the development stages of a project. I’d love to know rates and negotiation for the other filmmaking jobs like creative development, script writing, etc. Thank you for sharing all of this valuable info, Indy Mogul!
I'm trying to start free lancing. I've never had any clients before. However, I do volunteer work for my community. I've also got a website and Instagram page where I showcase my work. How can I start getting clients? Especially during this lockdown
you know someone in your circle. or someone in your circle knows someone who needs a video. it doesn't have to be for much. just get some work under your belt and learn as much as you can.
Chris is.....smooth, very professional, respectful when turning down or establishing his boundaries. Thanks for the wisdom, Master Yoda. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Amazing insight really ... had the same issue recently with the “exposure and future gigs” line... wish I had this info prior.... but never the less moving foward I will keep this amazing lecture in mind.... thanks guys u really helped me today.
They will always charge as low as you let them. Always set a personal minimum, charge way higher to get lowered and practice your poker face. As you develop skills and demand grows raise your price. Keep it simple.
I'm probably not qualified to answer this. it's mostly about defining what you are and aren't responsible for, what hours you work and what constitutes a normal day.
This video is perfect! I wish I knew this a month ago when I tried to negotiate with a potential client and it fell through. Thanks for this for the next interactions
I wish ya'll would do a video like this with a super low/no-budget production. You know what I mean? Like El Mariachi's $7,000 budget, or Following's $6,000 budget.
Great Video! my question: when you talk to client about pricing, there is similar negotiation as you showed, but now when you start to bring clarity on hours and related rates, so that you can bring down cost rates based on hours, clients say- "these are too many things you are talking about- its hard, professionals don't do this, there are many DP's who have simple rates, yours is getting too complex"! .. Even if I am trying to keep up my enthusiasm and help them with discounts, conversation gets difficult...how to deal situation like this when clients are not much aware?
at some point, if the client doesn't seem genuinely interested in working with you specifically and is looking for just a warm body, it might be time to walk away.
Love both these guys. Chris and his team have indisputably gained my agency bigger work and clients so thanks to him. Ted has definitely helped us with info for productions as well.
Thanks, Ted for introducing us to Chris. You have been already helping us with the art side now we can also get help for the business side from Chris and whole The Futur team ❤❤❤❤
If your making $500 a day shooting video, five days a week, twenty days a month is $10k per month. If you pay an assistant $18 per hour. This is a good gig. Or you can pay someone $150 per day to make the video for you. Then pay a post production fee of $600 for everything. Anyone can make this happen. Come on guys! Not everyone can make $500 per day. Peace and love
This was so helpful! I always feel a bit cheeky asking for more money that they're offering but this has definitely given me an idea on how to handle the situation. Thanks! :D
It's a business deal, you have your bills to pay and should know the worth of your quality of work. Notice how the original "anchor" was $500 despite the budget max being $1,000? If they are able to save on their budget, they are going to take the opportunity.
@@johnc417 Company reps are so bully, when it comes to taking every dollar out of you. So, that is why we should stick it together and bully them back: this is the line and I will not let you cross it, if you want me on this project. It is so hard and scary to say this to someone (in other words, of course), but to actually STATY COMITTED TO YOURSELF, in the end. Otherwise, you'll feel shitty, at the end of the day, after shooting and editing like a horse and got underpaid as hell, while that company rep sits and laughs, for hiring someone for so low and getting the project done for so less more money.
genuine question from someone who is a student even if you get $500 for a 12 hour day that's still around $41 p/h why is this not worth the time when most "normal" jobs offer you minimum wage?
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Lets assume someone is objectively worth the $1500/day, but you're not booking as many jobs, aka, not getting the client calls in the first place. Maybe due to smaller markets where they live, lack of self marketing, etc. Before that gets ramped up, how do you strike a balance in final prices between 'I need this job to make money, more than I need to get my full rate' and 'If I say 1500 but end up accepting 750, they'll feel like my numbers were unfair/inflated." Seems like at some point, people get forced to take lowball offers if the supply of bigger jobs isn't there.
Something our team has found helpful is to still bill the client for the $1,500 rate but with a clearly labeled 50% discount. That reminds the client what your are worth. The battle is to not get desperate and make sure that discount comes as a trade, as seen in this video the trade was the definition of a 8 hour day with the caveat that if the client broke that trade, they would be billed time and a half.
Chris I think I may have harangued you on something on your channel but I wanted to reflect that I _do_ really respect what you're doing because ultimately you're helping us sometimes insecure creators get what we're worth and that is THE GOOD WORK.
I am curious about what happens next. Say the negotiations go well, you get your rate, your papers are clean and signed, and even the shoot goes well. Now it’s paycheck time and the client ghosts you. They are suddenly so busy and unavailable to take your calls. What does one do then?
Bruh... 0:02, look and my bros eyes... YOU KNOW he was like HUH before he even said WHOOOO $500 measly ass bucks? LOL. So Here's my ALWAYS answers to clients because they all always looking for the slums and bottoms of the price. 1. 6:05 "So I need to know what your bottom is" A: My bottom is the $1,500 I said my normal rate is... I'm offering you an amortized rate FOR YOU, there's no race to the bottom. 2. "is $900 more realistic..." A: No because $1,500 is my bottom, to discount your next services down to $1,500 is literally $500 discount. why would I drop $100 more 3. "I'm taking money out of my rate" A: Hey, we are business people...I'm taking even more money out of MY rate because I'm still 100% of the work over time regardless, all while make that money back within the next week of your launch. Don't you thin that $500 difference makes up that in your increase in sales? 4. 7:54 "Maybe we can lower the hours on the video" A: oh ok so you you want to lower production times to try and med that bottom dollar? You realize the cheaper it becomes, the less you receive right? ... ok and then you pretty much said what I would have at the end of that first segment. I'll never again negotiate my own worth out the door to serve anyone. It NEVER pays back and never works. This is why I go OVER my quote on purpose so when they bottom dollar the price, I let the overage meet back at my asking and boom, client get's their bottom dollar focused value and I get my full value regardless. My term is, It's 2024, EVERYONE around you went up and still going up... why would you go down?
YEEESSSSSSSSS I LOVE IT.. 👏🏾 Well done Ted and team, and amazing from Chris as always. Chris always teaches for all creatives but it is focused from the point of logo making, and sometimes gives videography examples... But I love this was videography focused and specific, especially with all the questions 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
This video actually solved my problem when it comes to negotiating with clients and how should I charge. Its always been my weakness. Hopefully, I can deal with customers better soon.
Thanks so much for this comment, Δπαδυφξι Λιβυχ! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning. I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth. How did you do that? I watched the video with Chris but am still confused on what to ask for my services. Hourly, per project, editing, no editing included... Pffff.................................................
Head of a Studio. Master Negotiator. AND he’s got an Emmy. What on earth is Chris eating for breakfast and where do we get it?
I had an emmy, but I went to the clinic and they cleared that up for me
The Design Monk
I still remember when I went from running a money collection agency to charging 50% upfront...to just taking 100% upfront. lol. Turns out that the good clients that were ready to put down 50% upfront were ok with putting down 100%. Chris is a real champion of the people.
Crazy thing is, I do better work when I'm not worried about being paid.
GREAT VIDEO!!!
Thanks so much!
P.S. May I ask you guys to add a 80hz cut, plosives reduction vst or just stop speaking directly into the mic and stuff?
I see you as professionals, but that sound is really distracting, sometimes.
Please don't do that shit, man: 17:50...
11:08 :)
Much love.
@@ralphwarom2514 Yeah, me too. Things would be so easier, if money would not come in discussion,
but... then again, that is a JOB.
Great information thank you!
Filmmakers assemble
LOL!! This was great. I would’ve walked in first two minutes. Great skills and nice hang time Chris.
it wasn't easy to stay in this one. Moses was not someone I would've wanted to work with.
It's easy to confidently set your price when your rent being paid doesn't depend on whether or not you get the job.
BUT, knowing your worth confuses people and makes them respect you and your work a lot more.
I've had clients leave me on read, then come back in two weeks to confirm the job.
Thanks for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I went from $300-$500 gigs to $2000 gigs in my area from watching The Futur. Honestly it was from 1 episode or discussion he had. I cant recommend his channel enough
Awesome!! congrats.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
which ones in particular are you talking about?
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing, 3 revisions.
Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
Wow thank you for sharing. This too has opened my eyes. Peace and love
Those poor producers won't know what is coming for them.
whenever a client tells me the bs of ''oh we will have many many more projects ;like this ''... i always reply by saying.. let's put that in the contract with a deadline.. and if those project won't materialise you will have to pay me the extra on my fee... if they say no (which all of them do...).. that means there isnt any future project because they are just winging it with no clear future plan.
always have a fixed fee (that is realistic for your work). always over deliver and be nice to work with. the best clients i have are the ones who actually offered me more money because of the experience of work was so smooth they enjoyed it and had a product that superseeded their expectations!
finally , half-day fee is full day fee. because once a day is booked you cannot double booke it for something else... the bs of '' it will just take a couple of hours...'' '' just a quick edit...'' 99% of the time that's BS...
best of luck to us all in this crazy jungle ...
When I heard that, I interpreted it as "we just won't use him again after we underpay him the first time" and that it could be a frequent strategy. Like Uber/Lyft having "independent contractors" because the company avoids the liability/compensation from hiring a full time employee.
Thanks so much for this comment, Nabda Art!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning.
I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth.
How do you do that?
I've been in the biz for 20+ years and I have to say your "Slimy Producer" is so spot on for 95% of the people who have contacted me out of the blue looking for a deal. Pro tip for newbies: Whenever anyone says "there'll be a lot more work coming down the road if things work out well..." RUN! Great negotiating tips from you guys. Early on in my career, I worked with a great audio guy. When producers would ask him what his day rate was and he'd tell them, they'd invariably say "Oh...That's a little more than we had budgeted... What's your half-day rate?" And he'd give them the exact same rate. He may have lost some biz sticking to his guns, but in the end, he ALWAYS got his day rate and never wavered. I learned a lot from him. (You guys too... Keep up the great work!)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Do you have tips for newbies who don't have a strong enough portfolio? I did mostly travel promotion videos, but due to the pandemic, I've lost my job.
I've been trying to get jobs in product shoots, real estate shoots etc, but they all say I'm lacking in experience. I've only been in this for 8 months before the pandemic.
And half the work I've done can't be released as my clients are taking forever to launch it and I can't show full proof apart from snippets in my reel.
One client even refused to pay me and ran away with the 720p 10Mbps cheap sample I gave. Just lost another job quoting $180 per 30s of completed video, not inclusive of equipment/music. Am I being too overboard? Even students charge $50-100 per hour...
It's getting frustrating. I'm turning to odd jobs to support myself now. Even full time offers are just pure bullying. They want me to take photos, videos, edit, manage social media, have 3 years experience in Illustrator/PS, all for $1800/month. I'm trying to build/diversify my portfolio so I can apply for a wider range of jobs, but some people tell me I shouldn't diversify and just stay focused on one thing or my portfolio will be garbage. I'm so lost...
@@professionalpotato4764 A lot of people have to break themselves at some lower end job while doing their passion as a side hustle, definitely keep up with your portfolio but obviously you've still gotta eat. Negotiation isn't always purely dollars, even with regular jobs but you do have to consider the position and the possible number of applicants.
As Chris said, reward your loyal customers/clients and be creative with negotiating. If you've reached their budget max, see if they'll throw in an extra week or two of vacation time or letting you work from home one a week or biweekly. Or give a deadline, "Alright, I see this is the max of your hiring budget. As an solution that could be mutually beneficial to both of us; if I grow the department by 25% in the next six months, we can revisit the table for compensation? (AND always get it in writing!!)
Thank you, gentlemen, for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is soooooo scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
So scary to ask for the money you want and deserve.
People don't know what this video editing is worth.
Add audio-editing on top, also some images (cause you had the camera with you and said "Let me take some photos too,
while I am here...") and they still treat you like shit. That can be so discouraging, at times.
Only thing that keeps me here is the passion for video and film.
Otherwise, hasta la vista!
@@professionalpotato4764 Hi I know how you feel about being ripped off and this is why a contract is important so that both parties agree the deliverable against expectations. When they sign agreement (no matter how small the job is) they are agreeing to your terms and you have recourse...without this you have nothing and it gives the opportunity for people to take advantage. People are not what they always seem in business. You are in business and building a business and clientele is hard work. You need to build your portfolio but I believe diversifying may mean you become okay at many things but a master of none. If real estate is your goal then stick to this. Go out and film family and friends homes (the richer the better) and if not find a prospect who will let you film for free providing you can use your own work in your portfolio. If you look at this as doing something for nothing then you are not looking at it as your investment in you and your skills. I would strongly suggest building your reputation around what you are best at and love filming most. Good luck...
The 15 people who disliked this were producers who pay in exposure dollars.
the people who disliked this are the people for whom these rates are impossible because they don't live in cities with population bigger than some countries :/
@@bqgin The people living in these cities with populations larger than your whole country probably have to pay multiple times as much in cost of living as well. If you don't live in these cities and you believe your work deserves this "impossible rate", move to one of those cities so you can charge that rate.
@@johnc417 "move to those cities" oh yes, why didn't I think of that? It's so easy! I mean the plane ticket to LA or NY is only worth 15 of my whole monthly salaries! And it's not like due to currency exchange and taxes in my country everything is 5 times more expensive than in california, and it's not like there are any immigration regulations, I can just leave whenever I want! Thank you for opening my mind, you really changed my life.
@@bqgin but probably the cost of life in their countries is way less then LA, so they just need to adjust the price from that.
@@stefanomaggio5109 no it's not. For minimum wage in Poland you can buy 2-3 times less food, 3-4 times less square meter of a flat, and 15 times less gasoline than for minimum wage in LA. Not to mention 7 times less filming equipment.
Can we get a shirt with "Protect Your Enthusiasm" on it? I definitely needed to hear that.
Sounds like we need a designer :)
Oh yeah.
I've learned so much from Chris - from simply saying no & not working with bad clients, charging MUCH more, holdng very high standards in pre-production & making contracts. I am working less while earning more, and life gets a lot nicer for everyone :) P.S. I was also able to convince clients to spend extra on renting ARRI Alex Mini cameras on shoots. It's a business, they have money, just keep that in mind!
Yeah I've had people walk away but often they walked away like "This isn't an investment I can make but when I've got the money I'm coming back." And I really do believe them.
@Henry Hodge: Thanks for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
The second I start to do this, It scares the "client" away.
Check the value and quality ur giving with u services, if its solid and good, then dont worry about the client going away they are not good enough
Then you haven't found an actual "client" yet. Learn to separate the prospects from suspects. Just keep swinging at the plate! It will happen for you!
I'm on the same boat as you but we have to learn to accept the NO and maintain our sanity.
Same here , I just lost 2 gigs
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing.
Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
Client: “what do you charge?”
Me: “$750 a day”
Client: “my budget is $50.”
*left on read*
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Love to help you but I'm already booked.
Client: “my budget is 50$”
Me: “cool, you still have to find 700$ more
LMFAOO!!!!!!!!!!
@@jaynazario88 Best one xd
Ted and Chris… Legendary combo
Heat from the east
@@eliasrayz1412 haha
I love watching Chris's brain work in action. Truly a genius.
“Hold your price for as long as you can.” - invaluable advice from Chris.
"protect your enthusiasm" this. Such a career altering video, thanks guys!
As a Freelance Filmmaker who studies under Chris, this was fantastic! Freaking LEGENDS!
Appreciate it
I often start with a 10-20% margin added on so I can lower down to my normal rate to be flexible. most of my repeats get discounted rates but the few pains don't.
oh hey it’s chris
this guy is a legend over here at art center
hi chris
hello Geoffrey.
How much should I charge for a minute barber video? Takes about an hour to shoot and 2-4 hours to edit. Please help (work with a cannon eos rebel t6i)
Did you watch the video? No one is going to tell you and exact fee. Sounds like you don’t have experience so you should probably do it for free to get experience.
@@thirstygreek Did you not watch the video? They even referenced rookies taking exposure dollars, it's like an unpaid internship promising work experience, that has no promise of materializing to actual dollars.
Easy tally up the total time it takes for the entire project and multiply it by the $15 min wage number. After a couple of those projects you will get more and more experience which it seems like you are lacking. Invest that money back into yourself, your business and your equipment and start to slowly raise your prices based on results.
@18:50 >> The minute a client decides to pick a call and talk to you (or even if they called you on their own) THEY HAVE DECIDED TO WORK WITH YOU. Bullshit ! What idealism ! Ive seen clients who call 20 professionals for 1 job, in fact they hire jobless underpaid interns to sit and call 'service providers' (like us) and talk a deal with all of them to finally pick just one. They will talk as if your the only one they are calling and they want to get started working with you from tomorrow morning. Then they will take your quote (which they wanted so urgently) and just vanish. The next day on it doesn't look so urgent and they wont even pick your follow up call.
Honestly, today for the amount of good filmmakers looking for work. A real client will not talk so many values, here its a set-up its rigged and so hes just going on upping his offer. In the real world, the client will never up the value not even more than once as cunning mktg managers or business owners (who happen to be the clients) know its a dead give-away that they are desperate for you and will finally settle for your value. It shows that they are just haggling for the sake of it. In the real world. The client asks you how much, then says they'll get back to you. He does that with 15 more video guys and then gets back to whom he feels is the best deal with a good magic number. Nothing, just how much will you charge, ok thank you, well get back to you. That's how it works and that's how they do it in my country etc, in my 35 years of experience with the entertainment industry, ive never seen one client pitching multiple upped offers like this to look like a wimp. My clients are all dignified beggars. They will do the method i recounted always by default.
Most producers don’t even want to pay $500! Most listings are for like 150-200! Haha.
$900 is my day rate for me and camera here in Cincinnati, OH.
I was approached by a major record label (one of the big 4's) to work on a music video. Budget was around £5,000, I got paid £500 to Direct, DP and Edit once costs and crew fees were paid. I was also promised that they'd be working with me on 8 music videos in total which would increase in budget for every music video. So of course, I jumped at the chance to do it to build a nice relationship with this record label. They went to LA to do the third video. Funnily enough, that 3rd video which they told me would have a budget of £2,000 had around 30 people as a crew. Long story short, a major label will fork out money if they have to. Knowing me, I'll prob be an idiot and still accept being lowballed because it's work. Interested to see if they come back to me for the fourth video once covid is over.
Music videos are tough and to be honest many of the best DP’s I know aren’t making close to $1500 a day on these kinds of jobs. No need to beat yourself up. Your work will dictate your price, but don’t be afraid to say no. If they’re decent people, they should never be offended when you pass on a project.
check out the WDMV, many of us have been pushing for industry guidelines to protect you against that stuff. site is wedirectmusicvideos.com
when you stop saying yes, they'll take you more seriously
@@thefutur So true unfortunately, when I started doing higher-end editorial I started saying "no" to anything corporate, then they doubled my rate and I still said no... then they nearly tripled it lol. Gotta know your worth! 👍
2000 pounds for 30 people??????????????????
WTF???? Man!
I would just go on the set, with some popcorn in my hand and tell them I have off today and just came for a walk...
I think Moses fell into a trap with the 8-hour day thing. I think he will end up paying more than $1500
Oh Sh*t, I saw Chris and thought this was a Futur video when I clicked. Awesome colab!
this was nerve racking to do.
This is amazing....
I would like to know: When you are speaking of an 8-hour day e.g. when does it start? Just so you can make clear when overtime begins.
I would say, the minute you leave the house, your working day starts, but it can also start when you arrive on set.
What are your thoughts on that?
If you are advising you will be working an 8 hour day for $900 + Overtime at $100 an hour then this would be actual work on set. Your contract should advise clarity on any other inclusions such as travel costs and time taken to get to and from location and whether this is included. Chris Do advises an 8 hour day and that his usual 12 hour day rate (for shooting with 2 assistants) is $1500 and both parties should have made clear any other additions that made up this time. But as this was a straight negotiation for price I believe that as he advised in summing up he wouldn't want to have a bad taste left in his mouth about retrospectively asking for overtime unless this was agreed and written into the contract. One of the important things Chris did not include was 'make sure you write the contract' or at least make sure they agree to your full offer in writing and signed before proceeding...hope this helps.
Amazing video as always...freelancing is hard as fuck these days in Hollywood CA. Need permits which they arent issuing until they feel its safe....even when they do you need an on site medical person who constantly takes peoples temps. EVERYONE who attends set that day must prior first self-quarantine for 5 days before they can even step foot on set. Actors cannot touch or kiss and if they do it must be done via CGI or clever camera angle tricks. ITS ABSURD.
Now if I wanted to go super super freelance, indy film maker and shoot a quiet music video with low staff and only the musical artist then yes we can sneak that by as long as we dont use a huge set and shoot off site in obscure locations. Independent music videos for underground artists are like the only thing poppin right now and you cant charge them a lot because A: they dont have a lot of money. B: Like I stated above we dont have a permit so its already sketch as it. Finally C: People seem to just be shooting stuff themselves and not hiring people....
This is an awkward and scary time for film makers...im about to sell all my gear and get into video game streaming....at least I have control of my set, cameras, OBS/editing and my content and im getting paid without the hastle of the aforementioned above.
When people tell me you'll get exposure... I tell them that people have died of exposure
Especially true for redheads lmfao
The first one, imagine if Chris Do just hits them with the "So why are we talking?", haha.
haha
This is great. I love watching both of these channels! Here is some interesting information I got from this as a producer: the rate ($900/8) would actually cost more than $1500 if they want for a full 12 hour day. Here is the breakdown: $900 / 8 = $112.50 per hour (Straight time). For time and a half, you would multiple the straight time rate by 1.5 to get his overtime rate of $168.75 per hour. So an 8 hour day would be $900 and if they went to 12 hours you would multiple the time and half rate by 4 (hours) to get a total of $675 for the 4 hours of time and a half and then add that with the $900 to get a grand total of $1,575 for a 12 hour day. Extra fun note: I believe in California (I'm in Texas) the hourly rate over 12 hours is double time after 12 hours. So if they went over 12 hours the hourly rate would jump to $225 per hour for Chris. This was a very realistic exchange and I appreciate the negotiations by Chris and Moses along with the entire video. Due to scenarios like this, I prefer to work with hourly rates more than "day" rates. I find more people appreciate that than just saying "the day rate is $500." Most seasoned DPs or crew members will usually ask, "how long is the day?" when you mention a day rate. That pretty much happened near the end of the discussion which was great. It allowed the negotiations to get into the hourly rate versus the day rate. Since Moses knew information about the shots, director, etc that he brought up, this allowed him to bring up the idea that maybe they could hire Chris for $900/8. I love working with producers like that, they know the ins and outs of the overall creative and production which can give them leverage in negations. Once again, great video. Hopefully, they kept it an 8 hour day ;)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
@@michaelthomas3532 Very cool! I have worked with a couple of post facilities that charge close to the $600 per hour edit. Very nice facilities and edit bays too!
glad to see the breakdown. I think when mosses agree to overtime, I felt pretty safe moving forward. everything takes longer than you think. so it was going to work on in my favor.
I just scored my first $1000 gig to make a 60 second promo video containing just royalty free stock footage, a fiverr voice-over, and a few motion graphics. I would've charged like $300 for that in the past, but I told myself I wouldn't sell myself short anymore on what I believe I'm worth. Mind you, in the past I filmed a wedding that took 3 days of filming, 17 to 20hrs of editing for a 5minute long wedding video for only $800. I made more money on 20x less of a workload just bc I held my ground strategically on what I believe I'm worth. If you're capable of exceeding expectations in work quality, never sell yourself short.
In real life, the client has left the chat way before you could even start a lesson in philosophy about hypothetical income which hasn't even been accomplished.
Sorry Mogul, but this video way too misleading. It may work for cinematographers who are already established on some point. But absolutely not for an upcomig independent film maker.
Thats actually all what Chris delivers all the time: "Be ready to say no". Thats easy talk for someone who shows nothing but role-plays.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Such a money statement: "We want to reward our most loyal customers. We don't discount up front." 6:22
0:15
That is unless you're college students and they were expecting you to do it for little to nothing. And then they hire someone local that does such a horrible job you'd think it was shot by elementary school kids.
As a photographer just getting into video, this is the best Chris Do video i've ever seen. THANK YOU.
thanks Mark.
Moses looks like Ben Burns from The Futur lol!
haha
Never been into business myself, but a couple times people have asked me for advice on pricing their own work and I'm ALWAYS kinda baffled by how low people set themselves, from digital design to drawings to hand-knitted stuff, they ALL set some price that barely covered initial costs for no real reason.
That first one "We've got more projects in the future. Just work for super cheap this time so we can underpay you again in the future!!" Why do clients always think that's an enticing offer? lol
Oh man the irony here is that I'm more used to "our budget is £100 per day", where my actual rate is £500 per day. (£500 is about $625 USD) and working my way up to there, but this is all really great stuff.
I didn't understand the enthusiasm part. Can anyone help? @thefutur
The crossover ive been waiting for. Even though most of The Futur focuses mostly on design, so much of the concepts translate to videography seamlessly
yeah, take shit money now and we'll pay full rate the next time, well that next time rarely happens if at all.
13:46 fu*cked my head up, thx you for that
That was really awesome! I learned a lot from this demonstration! Good work Chris! More of this at Indy Mogul please! :)
Appreciate it
Really handy to see actually how a negotiation would happen. As many books as you can read - I think case studies like this go a long way. Thank you Chris for coming on and Ted for hosting! 👏🤗🙏
You're very welcome Kyle.
Dude, Chris is such a phenomenal salesman and negotiator! Hits all the pain points and knows how to cut through all the bs
This is awesome. Chris, when you set up the 8 hour day, what happens when it reaches the 8-9hr? Once it reaches the 8th hour, do you approach the producer? How is this setup and dealt with on set? Thanks in advance!
you should have the conversation with the producer if you know 6 hours in that it's not going to happen so that they can make the necessary calls and get the budget approved.
Wow, this is brilliant. I've had so many conversations like this as a photographer. Thank you for this super helpful video and for starting this conversation to educate more people about better negotiating practices as an artist. Thanks, Chris and Ted.
How much should I price a product company for a 30 minutes documentary + 30 seconds commercial. What's the process?
too many variables. but that sounds like a lot of work (shooting, editing, scripting). try estimating days of shooting + prep days X DP rate and then add your days editing X editing rate + gear rental
Master Do.
Simple human are just not ready for the skills.
Great tips mate. thank you!
Any tips on finding those first jobs out of film school, where I don't have a huge portfolio and potential clients want to pay well under what I need to pay rent etc
work with someone else's crew as an assistant or PA. you'll gain valuable experience, build relationships and get some real world action.
Had they countered with "well what if you cut one of your crew guys since this is a relatively small low budget project?" Or had they asked how much does your cost crew? Is that info that you would give out?"
Thanks -- this is very useful as it's way more concrete than a lot of other suggestions I've seen. Before I knew about "anchor bias" I remember being amazed at auctioneers who'd throw out a number to start bidding, then work their way down, and lo and behold, the price would come back to that starting mark ever single time. The "we have more work" -> "buy in bulk" analogy was spot on: "great, we'll set up a contract for 5 shoots and you'll get a better price."
Very helpful video for videographer 🔥🔥🔥
Awesome Conversation.... Thank you
So in this example the producer really wanted the DP. What if you talk with the producer a bit about the rate but in the end he says ok i cant pay that i am gonna have to look for someone else. But you think that this project could be cool and you want it. What do you do then???
all projects can be cool. let it go.
"Protect your enthusiasm"
What are exact things I should clarify with my client. For example: how long the shoot, overtime, and how many revisions. What is that entire list of things we need to set in stone in the beginning?
first, know what your costs are. if you do it for less than X you will lose money. Make sure you take into consideration all the non-billable time as well such as, meetings, coordination, prep, etc… Try to find out the value to the client. Why does this matter to them? the difference between the cost to make and value to the client is part of the art & science of pricing.
What if you’re a complete newbie? How do you negotiate your first job?
same principles. just different numbers.
I loved this! Question/request - I’m in the development stages of a project. I’d love to know rates and negotiation for the other filmmaking jobs like creative development, script writing, etc. Thank you for sharing all of this valuable info, Indy Mogul!
This is the most beautiful budgeting, pricing, negotiating video I've ever seen.
wow. Thank you Tommie.
I'm trying to start free lancing. I've never had any clients before. However, I do volunteer work for my community. I've also got a website and Instagram page where I showcase my work. How can I start getting clients? Especially during this lockdown
you know someone in your circle. or someone in your circle knows someone who needs a video. it doesn't have to be for much. just get some work under your belt and learn as much as you can.
@@thefutur ah sweet. Thanks so much for the reply. Much appreciated
Chris is.....smooth, very professional, respectful when turning down or establishing his boundaries. Thanks for the wisdom, Master Yoda. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Amazing insight really ... had the same issue recently with the “exposure and future gigs” line... wish I had this info prior.... but never the less moving foward I will keep this amazing lecture in mind.... thanks guys u really helped me today.
They will always charge as low as you let them. Always set a personal minimum, charge way higher to get lowered and practice your poker face. As you develop skills and demand grows raise your price. Keep it simple.
@ Chris Do what are the boundaries a cinematographer has and what are the expectations ?
I'm probably not qualified to answer this. it's mostly about defining what you are and aren't responsible for, what hours you work and what constitutes a normal day.
Hey guys, please put the laptops on different tables than the person behind it, it will stop the camera from shaking and help us focus on the content!
I noticed that too.
This video is perfect! I wish I knew this a month ago when I tried to negotiate with a potential client and it fell through. Thanks for this for the next interactions
Man, this is gold. Thanks. Really.
I wish ya'll would do a video like this with a super low/no-budget production. You know what I mean? Like El Mariachi's $7,000 budget, or Following's $6,000 budget.
wow. I thought this was the super low budget version already.
This is one of those videos that I feel will stick with me and actually make an impact in what I do.
good luck!
So much good advice! Thanks for putting this out there for all to see.
Great Video! my question: when you talk to client about pricing, there is similar negotiation as you showed, but now when you start to bring clarity on hours and related rates, so that you can bring down cost rates based on hours, clients say- "these are too many things you are talking about- its hard, professionals don't do this, there are many DP's who have simple rates, yours is getting too complex"! .. Even if I am trying to keep up my enthusiasm and help them with discounts, conversation gets difficult...how to deal situation like this when clients are not much aware?
at some point, if the client doesn't seem genuinely interested in working with you specifically and is looking for just a warm body, it might be time to walk away.
2 great dudes in 1 video i need a second like button here
Talk about worlds colliding!! This is amazing!!
Thanks Scott.
Love both these guys. Chris and his team have indisputably gained my agency bigger work and clients so thanks to him. Ted has definitely helped us with info for productions as well.
Thank you
That was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! Great instructional video. Thank You so much
I love this episode! As a fan of both Chris and Indy Mogul, this is such a monster crossover.
Thank you Logan.
Thanks, Ted for introducing us to Chris. You have been already helping us with the art side now we can also get help for the business side from Chris and whole The Futur team ❤❤❤❤
If your making $500 a day shooting video, five days a week, twenty days a month is $10k per month. If you pay an assistant $18 per hour. This is a good gig. Or you can pay someone $150 per day to make the video for you. Then pay a post production fee of $600 for everything. Anyone can make this happen. Come on guys! Not everyone can make $500 per day.
Peace and love
+ Obama 😂 Nice touch
Great points! Thanks Chris
This was so helpful! I always feel a bit cheeky asking for more money that they're offering but this has definitely given me an idea on how to handle the situation. Thanks! :D
It's a business deal, you have your bills to pay and should know the worth of your quality of work. Notice how the original "anchor" was $500 despite the budget max being $1,000? If they are able to save on their budget, they are going to take the opportunity.
@@johnc417 Company reps are so bully, when it comes to taking every dollar out of you.
So, that is why we should stick it together and bully them back: this is the line and I will not let you cross it,
if you want me on this project. It is so hard and scary to say this to someone (in other words, of course),
but to actually STATY COMITTED TO YOURSELF, in the end.
Otherwise, you'll feel shitty, at the end of the day, after shooting and editing like a horse and got underpaid as hell,
while that company rep sits and laughs, for hiring someone for so low and getting the project done for so less more money.
genuine question from someone who is a student
even if you get $500 for a 12 hour day that's still around $41 p/h
why is this not worth the time when most "normal" jobs offer you minimum wage?
you are also bringing your camera, and don't always get paid for prep time, and calls. before you know it, you'll be working at min wage.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Lets assume someone is objectively worth the $1500/day, but you're not booking as many jobs, aka, not getting the client calls in the first place. Maybe due to smaller markets where they live, lack of self marketing, etc. Before that gets ramped up, how do you strike a balance in final prices between 'I need this job to make money, more than I need to get my full rate' and 'If I say 1500 but end up accepting 750, they'll feel like my numbers were unfair/inflated."
Seems like at some point, people get forced to take lowball offers if the supply of bigger jobs isn't there.
Something our team has found helpful is to still bill the client for the $1,500 rate but with a clearly labeled 50% discount. That reminds the client what your are worth. The battle is to not get desperate and make sure that discount comes as a trade, as seen in this video the trade was the definition of a 8 hour day with the caveat that if the client broke that trade, they would be billed time and a half.
you got to eat. so do what you can to survive. outside of that, don't drop your prices. just say no.
Chris I think I may have harangued you on something on your channel but I wanted to reflect that I _do_ really respect what you're doing because ultimately you're helping us sometimes insecure creators get what we're worth and that is THE GOOD WORK.
Hey Kit. I try not to take anything too personal. glad I was providing some help here.
I am curious about what happens next. Say the negotiations go well, you get your rate, your papers are clean and signed, and even the shoot goes well. Now it’s paycheck time and the client ghosts you. They are suddenly so busy and unavailable to take your calls. What does one do then?
for shoots, it's customary to get paid 100% up front.
The Futur oh DIP. Mind blown. What a thing to learn from a UA-cam comment! Thank you!
Excellent video!
Bruh... 0:02, look and my bros eyes... YOU KNOW he was like HUH before he even said WHOOOO $500 measly ass bucks? LOL. So Here's my ALWAYS answers to clients because they all always looking for the slums and bottoms of the price.
1. 6:05 "So I need to know what your bottom is"
A: My bottom is the $1,500 I said my normal rate is... I'm offering you an amortized rate FOR YOU, there's no race to the bottom.
2. "is $900 more realistic..."
A: No because $1,500 is my bottom, to discount your next services down to $1,500 is literally $500 discount. why would I drop $100 more
3. "I'm taking money out of my rate"
A: Hey, we are business people...I'm taking even more money out of MY rate because I'm still 100% of the work over time regardless, all while make that money back within the next week of your launch. Don't you thin that $500 difference makes up that in your increase in sales?
4. 7:54 "Maybe we can lower the hours on the video"
A: oh ok so you you want to lower production times to try and med that bottom dollar? You realize the cheaper it becomes, the less you receive right?
... ok and then you pretty much said what I would have at the end of that first segment. I'll never again negotiate my own worth out the door to serve anyone. It NEVER pays back and never works. This is why I go OVER my quote on purpose so when they bottom dollar the price, I let the overage meet back at my asking and boom, client get's their bottom dollar focused value and I get my full value regardless. My term is, It's 2024, EVERYONE around you went up and still going up... why would you go down?
“Protect your enthusiasm.” Well said
YEEESSSSSSSSS I LOVE IT.. 👏🏾
Well done Ted and team, and amazing from Chris as always. Chris always teaches for all creatives but it is focused from the point of logo making, and sometimes gives videography examples... But I love this was videography focused and specific, especially with all the questions 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Sick video, I have a small vault of exposure🤣 On the 4th playthrough. Thank you gentlemen for your time.
This video actually solved my problem when it comes to negotiating with clients and how should I charge. Its always been my weakness. Hopefully, I can deal with customers better soon.
good luck
Thanks so much for this comment, Δπαδυφξι Λιβυχ!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning.
I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth.
How did you do that?
I watched the video with Chris but am still confused on what to ask for my services.
Hourly, per project, editing, no editing included... Pffff.................................................
Chris is awesome
Love the content. Love the tips. And leaving a comment for the algorithm! lol. Much love from Baltimore, MD!!!