What medieval weapons would dragon riders really use? FANTASY RE-ARMED
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- The dragon rider is one of the most beloved classic medieval fantasy tropes, because dragons are awesome, but it seems like most people haven't realized that swords and lances would not be effective weapons.
The Dragons shirt: teespring.com/whataboutdragons
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As if being attacked by a dragon wasnt bad enough, now the dragon is a WW1 bomber too. Great.
Riesenfriese
Or fit a ballista to its back
Get some anti air into that.
I'd imagine like the real world, fantasy anti-air weapon would be developed eventually to counter them, say oversized bolas / nets or other entanglement projectiles in large numbers could be launched from trebuchets, and they could be effective in disabling dragons. Also, depends on the specific fantasy setting, magic potion projectiles could be commonly used on trebuchets
welcome to the world of temeraire
Now there is an idea. Forget archers. Put several battle mages on the back of the dragon.
+Gray Scribe get more elevation for them to cast aoe attacks lol
The correct answer is a cup of tea and scones. You're riding a dragon. No weapon you could wield would be as effective as the dragon itself. May as well have tea.
The only weapon would be some form of ranged magic
Such a British reply haha
Have good time trying to drink tea on a flying dragon
@@dolsopolar have fun trying to look cool drinking out of a sippy cup
Asserting dominance with tea on a dragon
Isn’t the point of riding a dragon is that the firey death lizard below you is the weapon?
X. P. If I recall a part of the reason is because dragons have difficulty quickly killing other dragons, their scales make breath weapons less than helpful and claws and biting can take awhile and leave the victor incredibly wounded. The lances were faster and left the victor far less harmed
It depends upon the reach of the dragon's firebreath. Hence why Shad used the flechettes.
Also, there are other dragons and dragon riders to worry about. The dragon's breath is limited to one direction at a time, not to mention that the dragons themselves might be invulnerable to fire.
Having ranged weaponry or single use weapons like javelins increases the range and versatility of the rider.
I'd also add at least a single melee weapon for if one of the riders actually dares to climb across your own dragon and face you in a melee fight.
@@nevermore7285 but why would you fight a dragon unit whit another dragon unit? what you do is lure the enemy unit to the range of one of you anti-air weaponry on the ground and let them take care of the enemy unit, gosh.
Watch the video and your question will be answered.
@@RedFloyd469 depends if its fire breath m8
Lightning. Acid. Ice. 100lbs of HCl will fuck you up
This kinda reminds me a book called “His Majesty’s Dragon” from the Temeraire series, it’s about the Napoleonic wars, with dragons.
In the books, multiple people would ride dragons with the use of harnesses (the dragon, a pilot, and the crew), big dragons are pretty much flying ships of doom, and smaller dragons are couriers and scouts.
A thing is that dragons will bond with one person, their pilot, think Toothless and Hiccup, and while boarding is a thing, a big problem would be when a dragon is forced to bad things because the pilot was kidnapped.
Instead of more archers I would put more dragons on my dragons' back. Because you can never have enough dragons.
bUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?
Dragonception
Imagining a task force of massive carrier dragons with several bombers dragon on their back :)
And the forefathers of the great nation of Shadatopia tamed bigger and bigger dragons, until at one point they just tied a dozen of the massive Sky Emperor dragon breed and built our grand city, travelling through the skies and raining death to those who defied them with the power of the dragon bombers
Obviously, you're both wrong. On the back of a Dragon, you should put dragons that ARE archers, and on their backs you should put more dragon archers, on which you should humanoid archers, on which you should put hobbit archers.
"That's a nice house you've got there. But what about dragons?"
"What about dragons?"
It even works as a response to itself.
yea that is the best repsonce if it can work on it'self. :P
But what about whryns?
Nathan Ruppel What about Whryns?
But what about dragons?
What about illithid?
Shad: What is the best weapon for a dragon rider?
Me: What about their dragon?
In all honesty, though, I would prefer to use a hand crossbow.
Or a longbow
Height makes flechettes are more deadly than a bow or crossbow. A powerful crossbow or longbow will still only fire a few hundred feet straight up. If your dragon is flying higher than that, almost all of the velocity of a dropped item comes from gravity, regardless of what you're using to propel it. At that point, mass just matters more. A 1oz (~30g) arrow will bounce off someone's helmet. A 1lb (~500g) metal rock will crush their helmet and skull.
@@Space_Drifter0621 The problem with a longbow (that Shad doesn't understand in his other videos) is that you don't draw it, you bend it.
We don't actually have a firm idea of what this entails. There's no real instructive diagrams. But the descriptions we have from people of the time are "[My father] taught me how to draw, how to lay my body in my bow ... not to draw with strength of arms as divers other nations do," and "the Englishman did not keep his left hand steady, and draw his bow with his right; but keeping his right at rest upon the nerve, he pressed the *whole weight of his body* into the horns of his bow."
This sounds like something that would require firm footing and the ability to bend your waist or knees.
Simply put, take a yew longbow on a dragon, and you'll just fall off trying to bend it.
@@madisonlink7141 Thanks for your explanation now i understand mi mistake
What about a ....Cho-Ko-Nu? A Medieval Chinese Repeating Crossbow. Just pull the lever and a bolt flies off, rinse, repeat till the magazine is empty.
•BALLISTAS
•GREEK FIRE
Shoot barrels of it through a hose and you can amplify the power of the dragon flames.
•BUCKSHOT BALLS
You may be able to train the dragon to hold clusters of metal cannonballs in its mouth and build up pressure to fire them. Basically this turns him into a flying shot gun.
•SMOKE GRENADES
You can use certain chemicals along with the dragon fire to create clouds for the dragon to use as cover.
•BALL AND CHAIN
Basically attached to the dragon so that when he flies closer to the ground you can drop it and he can drag it through clusters of enemies.
SHOTGUN DRAGON
SHOTGUN DRAGON
HERE TO SHOTGUN ALL THE CASTLES TO DEATH
I’M A DRAGON WITH A SHOTGUN
Hmm, a barrage of Greek fire bombs?
My immediate thought when he explained what a flichette was: "look out! They're dropping lawn darts from the dragons! Somebody should really outlaw those!" "The dragons?" "No the lawn darts!"
Lawn darts actually did kill several people.
“I cast meteor swarm!”
“You aren’t a wizard, you can’t do that!”
“Watch and learn” *drops bricks*
When they outlaw lawn darts, only Death Knights will have lawn darts.
@@garethbaus5471 i mean i don't tend to call 3 several, but it injured a ton as well.
The best dragonriders are mages. The mage can actually do something while on the beasts back, and the dragon counters the typical mage weakness of being squishy.
Agreed.
Of course, what's better than a mage shooting lightning?
A mage guiding the flechettes with pinpoint accuracy.
Could really be something. Not only just offensive magic from the mage, but also defensive magic to protect the dragon (or it's weak parts, say the eyes or something), or to block certain attacks the dragon can't block (say for example other mages and their magic)
Nathaniel Jernigan Then again I like to think of dragons as rediculously powerful sorcerers, which sort of makes any puny magelings not worth much on their back.
Magnus Anderson Multiple mages working together to cast powerful spells they otherwise couldn't. Or maybe something where there is diffrent types of magic usable by dragons or humans or they can bolster each other's power. Or maybe something as simple the dragon specializing in offemssive magic while the human could use defensive and utility spells.
Joel Sasmad Mage focusing on illusion magic to corral the enemy and hide the dragon, the dragon focusing on AOE magic and breath attacks...
"These are very ineffective weapons for a dragon rider."
You forgot to say *offensive*. They are ineffective *offensive* weapons.
The thing is, a rider wouldn't need an offensive weapon, because that is what the dragon is for. The rider's only concern is to guard the dragon's blind spot and defend. So a lance, spear, or even a good sword would be perfect for defending against other flying creatures that wish harm on the dragon.
yeah im disappointed he almost exclusively discusses dragon vs ground, when the dragon rider is really just armed to give an advantage in dragon v dragon combat.
same issue with the angel vid, yes obviously a flying angel vs a walking human you want long ranged weapons, but its not interestingly different from archers on a castle wall vs knights below.
@@IIxIxIv Actually, his angel (flying humanoid) video made perfect sense. Like he explained in that video, you have large wings you have to be careful of. So a bow would not be a good idea. Plus, unlike archers in a tower, flying foes move. And they can move fast.
It actually doesn't bother me that he only talks about dragon vs ground troops. Like he said, the dragon is its own weapon.
How are you going to defend the dragon from absolutely nothing with a sword? Another dragon arrives bites him from the side, one throws his flare from the other side, you would be just a witness of everything that is happening if your dragon is bigger than a rhinoceros, you would not have a sword it would only serve you in the tremendously specific in case another dragon (With malleable enough scales) Put his sword under you or his eye at a sufficient distance from your arm that for some reason he did not decide to pulverize but to approach you, but in the hypothetical case that happens it would be like "Oh yes, I managed to pierce the dragon... Oh no, my sword is stuck and now I must let it go but I want the force of the dragon to take me wherever it wants" With a spear the same thing would happen, only it would be easier for you to penetrate , a sword is simply an idiotic weapon to mount a dragon, less against another, they are basically giant reptiles with integrated armor and integrated flamethrowers and already swords are not a useful weapon to pierce a temp steel armor side.
In any case, bow, arrow and pray for two things, one that your precision is not compromised due to the movement of the dragon and two so that it helps to kill the rider, because you are not going to tickle the dragon before it hits you. burn me alive if you expose yourself too much. I am not talking about a fight between a dragon rider against another dragon because the only thing you have to worry about in weapons in such a case is other riders and as for the other dragon, the only thing you could do is guide yours as best as possible to face it. Perhaps there is the hypothetical case where your dragon flies at high speed close to the other in which case a blunt force weapon is your best option to attack with the charge, you really don't want to lose your weapon in a single attack because it was sharp and it was embedded in the dragon's scales.
Best use case is if you find yourself dragonless
Many land predators attack the spine of their prey. Presumably a dragon would attack another dragon from behind or above. This would put a rider in a position to desperately defend with perhaps a spear or lance toward the enemy mouth (a tender spot in most ideas of dragons)
In the "Temeraire" series, by Naomi Novik, dragons, depending on their size, have at least 6, to well over a dozen, crew who, this being set in the Napoleonic Era, are armed with muskets and the like, as well as black powder bombs, and that's even if the dragon doesn't have some sort of fire/acid/other breath weapon.
Then, the "Dragon Jousters" series, by Mercedes Lackey, they seem to be just a bit bigger than a horse, going by artwork, and they don't have breath powers, so a lance/spear tends to be a main weapon, as swords and clubs are too short. As for bow and arrows, as well as other missile weapons, due to the half-wild nature of the creatures, who tend to be captured when young, said creatures tend to snap at them like birds do insects, but those raised from the egg can be trained to tolerate some things, like light javelins and sling stones, as well as arrows, but this takes more cooperation between dragon and rider than usual, and the half-wild ones don't like to cooperate any more than they have to.
This two sound really cool. I will add them to my "to-read" list. Thank you.
@@jaumeblanco5632 You're welcome. Got a few other books I like reading.
@@lockwoan01 I allways like reading recommendations.
@@jaumeblanco5632 Another series I've enjoyed is "The Dragon Knight" series by Gordon R. Dickson - late 20th century man ends up in an alternative 14th century that has magic, talking wolves, Dark Powers, and DRAGONS! As it is, he finds himself stuck in the body of one, initially. After getting his body back, he soon finds himself with magic, the ability to turn into a dragon, oh, and due to a prior lie, folks believe him to be a Knight.
Also recently, took up reading a series called "Spells, Swords, & Stealth" by Drew Hayes. Basically, got an RPG going on, where 4 PCs enter a tavern - Paladin, Rogue, Wizard, Barbarian - order a drink, and fail the Constitution Save. While 4 players roll up new characters, in the Tavern, those guys are really dead, and four locals pretend to be them, in an attempt to save their town, and mind you, they are actually just some NPCs.
What's also kinda neat about the Temeraire series, is that the "captain" and "Crew" do have and use blades to repel boarders...
Shad: MACHICOLATIOOOOOOOOOOONS
Matt: COOOOOOONTEEEEEEEEEXT
Lindy: FREEEENCHMEEEEEEEEEEN
Skall: /facepalm
But what ABOUT DRAGHUNZ!
Viewers "pommel, sword, cat, DRAGONS, Beeeeeeiiiiiiiiigggggggge"
Metatron: PASTAAAASSSSSSS!
MagicMichael827 , Lyndibeige !(i don't remember how does it's spelled) Just a part of that roleplay fan crew as Shad and Skall, I donno matt
Ian: *calmly talks about some very specific armor style for 20 minutes without spewing memes*
Typically in the lore for dragon riders is that the dragon and rider are bonded and the dragon doesn't really trust other people too often so that's probably why they don't put more people on the dragons. And now that I look at it a dragon rider using a sword while riding the dragon is kind of stupid lol so you made a pretty valid point lol
Drako 6101 That’s exactly the case in Eragon, the Drakengard videogames, and in the video game “Lair”. But in the first two examples, the bond gets taken even further, because if one (Dragon or Rider) dies, so does the other.
Drako 6101 the only use for a sword would be as a side arm. The rider is not always mounted. Though depending on the size of the dragon some mounted type weapons may work if attatched to the saddle.
in addition, not all dragons may be big enough to carry multiple people and a bag of flechettes.
Gabriel Drake I honestly loved the Eragon series and the drakengard video games. Although if the dragon dies in terms of the Eragon series the rider lives but in drakengard of one dies the other does as well because they end up basically sharing a soul
Globin347 exactly. Even big dragons have their limits though
My answer: hand grenades. If you are sticking to strictly medieval (not rainessance)? If dragons are big enough, mount a ballista
Putting gunpowder in a clay pot and throwing it at people is medieval
Gunpowder was discovered around the 9th century in China. Bombs made with gunpowder were used in the following centuries. The mongols helped spread gunpowder (and related weapons) to Europe. They certainly qualify as medieval weapons, though it should be noted, their efficacy was less than that of bombs of later periods. They would be debilitating in close proximity, a dragon bombing run would shatter an enemy army's fighting capacity, leaving them weakened and disoriented while the other side capitalizes on the chaos.
reloading the mounted ballista isn't an easy task though
"I call my dragon war wolf"
"Where did the name come fro- OH MY GOD YOU PUT A TREBUCHE ON A DRAGON?!?!?! HOW?!?!?!"
Could be useful against other dragons
His Majesty's Dragon is a great book that shows some creative and honestly pretty cool ways of utilizing dragons.
The ending reminded me of the centaur video.
"Rider(s)? Nah, they're more like a automatic turret(s) I carry on my back while I do my own thing."
3:10 "...small elephant kind of sized..." ok, now you have to do a video on properly outfitting a war elephant!
I mean I'm not a historian, but I'm pretty sure the proper way to outfit a war elephant is to stick as many archers on top of it as possible.
Spears were used too, as far as I know.
On the first read-through of your comment, I was sure said "a small elephant kind of SNEEZED," and I was trying to remember where in the vid he talked about sneezing elephants.
But what about sneezing elephants?!!
That actually happened. I wanna see Mammoths.
Put a Thagomizer on the Elephant's Trunk xD
One thing I want to point out, in my favorite "Dragon Rider" series Eragon (the books) He very rarely even attempts to fight with his sword while on his dragon. He mostly uses ranged magic, and even then only really rides her for battlefield re-positioning. It is depicted several times as him fighting along side his dragon on the ground, acting as small arms defense, and his bastard sword is a really good choice in that context
definitely a good example. and I like that book too
"Snappy Snappy" is my new favorite word for mouth.
if Dragon exist then very likely magic too, so of course, a flying magic turret of doom is the obvious answer!
Or if you can't get magic maybe even crossbows? Small powerful bows eh?
Heal the dragon if it gets hurt, launch fireballs and what not.
No magic? Bow. Or maybe a dragon-mounted ballista.
Then you add a mage on the dragon and you have a fire ball throwing, fire breathing turret of doom! :D
@@imperiousrex128 That's a great idea! :O
Dragons are fantasy WMDs adding any human weapons to them is like putting a bayonet on a main battle tank.
I mean 50 cal on the top wouldn't hurt any tank though
now i want to put a bayonet on a tank turret
Lol nice
Unless it is magic bayonet that can cut trough tanks
@Kevin Warburton The repercussions of early aerial combat in fantasy worlds ... this would be nice. War was "2d" until WW1, how different would societies be if attacks from the sky were possible since, basically, the Bronze Age (appearance of the first cavalries)
- What's your weapon?
- A verb. *Dracarys*
Where'd that smell come from? We don't even have any pigs here!
@@timawaviking526 I have heard that some cannibals name humans' meat a "long pork".
@@kagenekoUA from who? Asking 'cause I'm scared
@@alexanderthegreat6682 They asked a bunch of cannibals what we tasted like back in the 19th; apparently, it's pork.
I've already incorporated a few of those tactics into my book! It was nice to see them confirmed. All my riders are archer and I have two-three per dragon. Thanks for making this video.
A big thing also is control. A dragon is a flying creature so that means you essentially have 4 axis of control; roll, pitch, yaw and speed.
@@MrMarinus18 and death
just give the dragon a bow
@@gia257 Depending on the intelligence, independence, and dexterity factors of the dragon it may work. The dragon would probably require forward limbs to use the bow, so the type that just have rear legs and wings may not work.
@@ckl9390 Those are called Wyverns
Each time I see an episode in this series I always put notes down in my D&D Idea notebook
D&D? As I mentioned, polymorph the dragon into a bird. Change back above the party and have the dragon drop a few dozen thunderstones, tanglefoot bags or alchemical fire and down the drain go most of the plans the group had.
As for polymorphing? I had my group believe for a while that they were working for/with an adult silver dragon only to find out thst it was a polymorphed red dragon that was a great wyrm on top of it.
More people on the back of a dragon? Just look at the Temeraire series. Dragons in the Napoleonic war era. And it was the Romans who first tamed dragons and used them for war. With archers on their backs... :p
In French, "dragon" is the word that became "dragoon" in English. "Dragons in the Napoleonic era" conjures up some pretty amazing images of green-coated French soldiers wearing Grecian-style helmets (with a horse hair crest and panther skin band around the helmet), shooting at enemy forces from a howdah* on their dragon's back. Including one particularly prominent regiment, the dragoons of the Imperial Guard, or "les Dragons de l'Impératrice" (whose patroness was the Empress, as their name suggests).
www.pinterest.fr/pin/827747606481683448/
Anyone familiar with the zoologist Saint-Hilaire has to wonder what he'd make of taking care of dragon eggs and hatchlings at the Jardin des Plantes (all the more since Napoleon creates the BSPP, as the first proper "modern" firefighting service, in 1811). And what about the draconic equivalents of the horse rearing farms created by the Emperor? ;)
NOTE
*The Emperor planned a fountain that was to stand in the centre of the square where the Bastille once stood. The centrepiece was to be a colossal elephant with a historically accurate howdah on the elephant's back that people would actually be able to climb into, and look out across the city. It seems to me that if you were to take Shad's idea of putting several riders on one dragon, you'd use a similar technique and make as aerodynamic a tower or turret as possible, to allow a platoon of riders to shower a hail of death behind, under, and in front of the dragon (I ruled out the sides because you wouldn't want to risk hitting the wings).
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Boarding actions and similar do make it feel much more like "if dragons then...." rather than use of tropes
The Romans were only the 1st European civilization to use them.
China's relationship with dragons is both significantly different and significantly older.
We don't know how long Native Americans had been training them but it was long enough that the dragons were so superior Europe couldn't conquer any of the new world.
Nobody's mentioning that dragonriders in this series had whole crews attached to the saddles of the dragons via carabiner. These crews were trained in boarding actions against ships as well as other dragons. Though, arrows aren't really that useful in such few number and from such great a distance, and as such dragonriding archer crews wouldn't really be that effective unless they were absolute expert shots.
Edit: Dragonriding crews were mostly concerned with the defense of the dragon's blind spots, caring for it's wounds, and occasionally boarding an enemy or defending against an enemy boarding attempt.
The Temeraire series have whole squads fighting on the dragoons, kind of like what you describe here. The setting though, is a little more advance, in the era of Napoleonic wars.
Start of the video... me thinking: Javelins
P.S.: Oil? When the dragon sweeps with it's breath ... waaaaait
The Chinese had black powder >:))
ha, this reminds me of this one mythical Chinese battle, where the general order to cover an entire valley with explosives, and then lead the enemy into it, and blew it up, hmmm the battle of Shang Fang Gu I think.
Javelins is good because you can Store alot of them on the Dragon saddle
Against Meng huo's reinforcements?
"Dragons can carry exceptionally heavy loads on their backs." ATTACH A TREBUCHET TO THE DRAGON
poor dragon
In theory, if you had a big enough dragon, you could strap a ballista to its back for the rider to use. It'd be devastating if facing another dragon.
So kinda like in the Temeraire novels then?
They are set in the Napoleon wars, but with dragons, as air forces. What they did there, is that they attached a network of ropes to the dragon, which a whole crew of people then attached themselves to using hooks and such, and then they would fight using rifles, bombs etc. They would also "board" enemy dragons and fight the crew in melee combat, with the main target being the captain, whom the dragon was usually very attached to, and so could be used as a hostage to capture the dragon and it's crew.
Ohhh I read a book from that. It was decent writing but good use of dragons.
Yes I love the series. Also cannons mounted on dragons. Aka the main dragon and his roar thing with cannons on top of it
Thanks for tip, I really need to read that based on this alone.
Me and the boys dropping WW1 technology from a dragon to take back the holy land
i wonder if pots of oil would be effective since it would compliment the dragons fire breathing abilities in that it would provide a guaranteed fuel for the dragon to burn
Hmm maybe, given the right circumstances.
Finally, we're hearing the answer to the age old question: "What about dragons?"
Well done, Shad. Well done.
but What about dragons?
You should read the temeraire book series by Naomi Novik as it is set in the napoleonic wars and it has the dragons serving as an airforce for the different nations. Depending on the size of the dragon they are used for different things. Small dragons are used as curriers or scouts while carrying only their rider but midsize and large dragons have crews who are armed with rifles, bombs, swords and pistols for both boarding and counter boarding actions. There is more to it but it fits you points here very well and I really think you would enjoy the series.
NightHunter571 thank you for the recommendation 🍻
Great Series! currently on the 4th book :D
in the series of Temeraire, they had firing squads in harnesses on the underside of the dragon - napoleonic wars with dragons - i highly recommend it :D
In the Temeraire series, most dragons have crews; with single rider dragons being used as couriers dragons. Bigger would be ideal for troop transport or logistics while medium size could have musket crews. Using their immense strength to topple trees which you could use to build or enhance your defense.
Keep em coming. Im building a d&d world around these ideas.
reachcole I've been trying to incorporate these videos in my campaigns as well. I love this series.
Same! The fairy episode and this one in particular is massive food for roleplaying campaigns
Andres Arancio
I made a comment on the fairy video about this, but you should include anti-fairy weaponry and armour in your game. Flyswatters, shortened whips and scourges with many ropes instead of one, primitive hand grenades, etc. would all be effective against fairies. For armour, consider fine chain mail or even limited glass seeing as fairies just wouldn't have the inertia to shatter small windows on helmets.
J. Villeneuve In some form yeah, the issue is particulary due to the setting having the whole "society still fears too much 'magical' creatures that they have not systematically found ways to deal with them" plot device. But of course some form of anti fairy tech will be designed, cannot let players die one too many times of sudden throat slashing.
Sounds like something I'd want to play
Dragon riders with swords are in my opinion the same as a noble on a horse. Something to keep the soldiers moral high.
So instead of a flying fire breathing noble steed, you say a make a gunship.
are you criticising the ac130
Well in settings with magic a wizard or magician even if a low level one is a weapon of mass destruction when atop a dragon since he is very well defended from any of the usual battlefield haphazards and can cover the dragons biggest weakness which is it back and underbelly since it is often said that the underbelly is the less armored area of the dragon a wizard could provide covering fire and the back is also exposed beacause the dragon needs the tail to fly and cant defend his rear side. As for swords if the dragon is big enough someone crazy enough might attempt to hijack the dragon and kill the rider hoping to either wound the dragon or drive it away from a batle. This actually happened during a civil war in the game of thrones universe where one dragon rider leapt into the other dragon and dueled the rider atop his dragon which caused the dragon to crash and kill the dragon and both riders.
a cavalryman with a sword is an actual thing though. horseman did use swords.
JohnSmith FakeName: on the battlefeild a noble may make the foot troops a little more willing to fight; but nothing raises makes solders more ready to fight then air supiriority
Air superiority would definitely help my morale.
139 people are Inheritance Cycle fans refusing to acknowledge the framed frame from 0:46-1:11.
Also, that's a nice black screen you have there from 5:36-5:45...
Yeah, no matter how enchanted or warded your sword is, it is pretty much useless on the back of a dragon unless you are fighting another dragon rider.
@@usaball9190 the thing is dragon riders were not supposed to battle on their dragons unless they were fighting a flying opponent in the series, their weapons were more for when they were not on their dragons as most had bows made by the elves, were masters of magic, and oh yeah had a giant fucking dragon under them.
@@MrEcoho Exactly what I was gonna say. Though I do have some gripes about the series, especially certain parts of the final novel, the fact that the dragonriders almost always had bows and were all powerful mages makes them powerful weapons in their own right even from the backs of their dragons.
@@jonathanstuber0402 lol yeah the final book was kind of meh at the end.
@@MrEcoho Yeah, definitely. Still love the series as a whole, but the way it wrapped up just didn't really satisfy.
You should read the Temeraire series by Naomi Novik it deals with non-magical dragon combat in exactly the way you describe
Your "crew" idea has been done in Naomi Novik's Temeraire series of books, set in an alternate timeline Napoleonic War period. Soldiers are strapped to a harness on the dragon and mostly use rifles to shoot at other dragons and IIRc they drop grenades too.
Is it good?
not really, i read it and it wasnt anything special, TBH it was quite disappointment, a wasted opportunity.
The first one is kind of interesting, because the concept of how the dragons are used as an air force. Sadly, the characters are pretty card board and the author can't decide what dragons can or can't do. It turns into a pretty mess (IMO) with the later books (which I only read because I got it as a super cheap Kindle bundle).
Read the first book, if you are intrigued, but don't continue if you are not "on fire" by the end of it. It will not get better.
Welkin Volg I loved the series.
The mid-air battles between dragon riding squads were an interesting concept, throwing hooks and lines to connect to an opponent and swinging across like you would capture an enemy ship in the era, but with dragons in mid air.
BUT SHAD! WHAT ABOUT SMALLER DRAGONS ON DRAGONS!
(or crossbows)
Now I image the dragon to act like an aircraft carrier for the smaller ones, who are more nimble and swift, but lack the big guys (or gals) stamina.
In the book series "Temeraire" you get a great inside about the more modern armament of dragons. Because ranged weapons will definetly be useful and the muskets are a useful tool. And it also explores the Idea Shad mentioned of a complete platoon of people on board a dragon, armed with muskets and bombs
Actually I can't believe I've never seen a dragon with a whole squad of people on it before. It's so obvious now that the idea is there.
Take a look at Temeraire, a novel series that incorporated dragons into WWI. Dragons are treated as aircraft's, with a whole crew, both on ground and boarding, dedicated to each beast. The crew riding the dragon will take care of its wounds, defend blindspots and enemy bording, drop bombs and attempt to board the enemy dragon.
@@victormillen8393 well, Napoleonic Wars not WW1, but otherwise you are right.
@@Myuutsuu85 oh damn I remembered it wrong. Thanks for correcting me tho
The reason for that is because Dragons are very stubborn/prideful creatures, they dislike even one person riding on their back, unless that one person was the first creature the Dragon saw when it hatched. Also because most Dragon riders depicted in fantasy are evil, so they hog all that power for themself and force their minions to either march/walk on foot, or ride lesser creatures such as horses.
What about DRAGONS, Shad?! You think dragons are just vehicles for people? Dragons are people too!
What weapons would the DRAGONS use?!
First of all see the weapons to use against dragons clearly dragons would use 'anti dragon' weapons against other dragons, second look at the ones for angels and demons for weapns against gorund forces, also of coruse, NAplam, or lice or acid or lightning or what ever breath wepaon to the face
Dragon fire.
I'm surprised anyone took me seriously. But my money is on large, brittle boulders dropped from a great height (to fragment and throw shrapnel everywhere) and some kind of contraption that lets them launch a projectile by the strength of their flight muscles, which as per the square-cube law must be insanely strong.
ThuderClawShocktrix While what you say is certainly true, I think it's a tad narrow minded. The winged humanoid weapons wouldn't take much advantage of the greater size of a dragon, and depending on the specifics of your dragon some weapons might need to be heavily modified and even unusable.
KingLouie TheAwesome (Great name by the way) I'm not sure about rocket-propelled arrows-- the aerodynamics are sure to be funny and it could be tough igniting the rocket without damaging the launcher-- but I like the idea of poison since killing a creature of such great size by impact force alone would be difficult.
And to all who say dragons don't need weapons, I refute thee thus! While a dragons natural weapons are formidable, perhaps making others unnecessary, weapons are unnecessary for humans as well; it is entirely possible to kill with one's bare hands. Arming humans, however gives them a more favorable kill ratio, and with the right weapons, that is probably true of any intelligent being.
As established by the centaur episode, a human armed with pointy sticks can count as a weapon. So the preferred weapon of dragons is... a guy with a crossbow.
But what weapons would the dragon itself use???
JK. I just wanted a chance to say BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS???
The HackingBurger _W H A T A B O U T D R A G O N S?!_
if the dragon has hands, it could hold a spear and fly at a powerful target, releasing the spear and flying up before the hit- the result would be similar to that of a ballista, I imagine, especially if the spear had guiding flachettes like an arrow.
But... But... But why would a dragon even need a weapon? I mean it's a goddamn dragon! xD
You're probably not.
But this needs answering anyway.
the rider should really only be there for coordinating with the dragon (keeping it under reins if its an animal) or providing tactical information to said dragon and others in a given battle (if is a large battle). Otherwise the only two weapons would be some kind of ranged weapon or magic.
at most melee weapons could be used by a rider if something else tried to climb on it, dragons i'd imagine would be vulnrable on their back so having like an anti boarding rider would be beneficial while the dragon deals with main threats elsewhere
The Temeraire book series by Naomi Novik has the best mounted dragon combat. Entire crews of musket wielding soldiers as well as bombs that would be dropped over targets.
So, Dragons would be firebreathing, flying war-elephants?
Yeah, seems logical to me.
Yeah here’s the weapons someone would use on a horse.
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!
Flechettes on a horse? Very effective against moles.
I expected bows to turn up as the best, but now I just picture like 4 -8 people on a dragon with some big buckets of nails just sitting there, strapped down grabbing handfuls and just yeeting them out. Truly a spectacle.
With all honesty, the only thing a dragon would need a rider for is to fight other dragons / dragon riders. So the best weapon for a dragon rider becomes the best weapon against the dragon. And that is balista. Yeah, definately, the only thing better then a dragon could be a dragon with a balista on it's back.
I'm only at 7:30-ish, but it's sounding like Naomi Novik got things right in having her dragons act like organic airships complete with crews...
EDIT: aaand just finished, so in short, go read the Temeraire novels, and bring the tech level down from the Napoleonic era.
That still means meele weapons are needed to counter the boarding parties
I was going to mention Temeraire novels but you beat me to it.
Dragons there were more or less treated as flying platforms with anything from half a dozen to a score musketeers strapped on the surface, were they not?
Even on their own dragons were awesome and terrifying in those books. Tearing ships apart in melee, burning ships, spitting acids and gunk at them, or in one case just shouting things to bits, now I think about it, ships really got the short stick in that setting.. At least I don't remember the author putting a cannon on a dragon's back, that'd be a horror to behold.
Awesome books but never got to finish the whole series.
Dang it, wish I had seen this video before I commented basically the same thing lul.
To anyone who wants to read a creative setting with dragon riders check out the "Temeraire" series.
It set during the Napoleonic wars, so its guns and muskets and no magic. One of the things I love about it is that Naomi Novik obviously spent a lot of time thinking about this very question, she even asks questions mostly overlooked like "What are the Dragon's rights in different nations? are they treated like slaves? are they citizens with equal rights? would dragons rule over the humans?"
*Imagines Mongols with their bows flying dragons* Good god...
I always thought that the reason why dragon riders wield swords is to defend themselves if another dragon rider jumped on their dragon......
whats more dangerous then a dragon.... two dragons of course lash em togther wait... no i was so blind not to see it... its so simple thanks pope francis l.... lash All of the dragons together build some proper matriculations on... yes my fifteen dragon mobile fortress is COMPLETED!!!!!!!!!!
:3 not bad but... what about a dragon that breathed little dragons instead of fire....
i.pinimg.com/736x/5f/cf/e6/5fcfe6114ad4d2b58a0042b694ec8946--dentists-dragon.jpg
Ahem, yes that is a dragon
^^; was denied when i tried your link man idk why
+The Virus What's that from? Looks an anime version of xenoblade chronicles 2.
TheTwilitHero kid you not, its from an anime called The Dragon's Dentist. Its really good i love the soundtrack
So what you're saying is that the best way to utilize dragon riders is to make them the fantasy equivalent of World War Two bomber crews!
That is one of those things that become more awesome the more you think about it.
there is nothing awesome about allied bomber crews. My grandparents do not approve.
Harry Turtledove does end up using his dragons as bombers, Levithans as submarines, Sacrificial magic as concentration camps, mages as machine guns, and similar in his "Into Darkness" series... Pretty much alternate history of WWII, does the same thing with WWII being interrupted by an incompetent alien invasion as well, and a few others.
This is Eragon to tail gunner..Shade at 9 o'clock low
Now I want a game like Bomber Crew but with dragons.
Somebody else already said this, but to signal boost...Shad, you’d love the Temeraire series!!
This was a really fun video to watch. I'm writing a fantasy novel where wyvern rider tribes are present. Their tradition is two riders per one wyvern, one rider with a bow to cover the back 180 degrees, the other with a lance or javelin/javelin set to cover the front diagonals, while the wyvern takes out anyone directly in front with its maw or fire/lightning breath.
What a great video! It's cool to see I'm not the only one who thought about the issues of this concept.
Pretty interesting :p
They shouldn't be using flechettes... but pommels, so that they can finish their targets rightly !
But still... what about dragons...
dragon-shaped pommels
What if it's a pommel breathing dragon?
The Fat Man was a pommel. Musta have had a collossal sword, but that probably explains the destruction...
Nothing beats the satifying moment of having a weapon idea (in my case flechettes) and then seeing it come up in the video (8:11). Keep up the good work!
Soooo... basicly turning a dragon into a mideval equvilant of an AC 130 Spectre gunship.
For very large dragons:
Put a battlement on the back of the dragon.
Man it with troops, mages, and a catapult (depending on the size of the dragon).
And of course, you'll need a place to drop your projectiles from.
If you've seen enough of Shad's videos, you know where this is going.
Well surely, Dragon Riders would simply use their vast wealth - from the Dragon's hoard - to employ a horde of snake people and tiny fey warriors to utterly route or annihilate any mundane opposition.
THATS HORRIBLE TO THINK ABOUT, PURE NIGHTMARE FUEL!!!!
Finally man now I dont have to keep asking WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS?!?!
hmmm that is a good point but I suppose most would just assume being a dragon makes life great on its own. but ya never know
He'd love his "majesty's dragon"
The series His Majesty's Dragon did a good job with this question (although it was set in the Napoleonic era and not the medieval).
Merry Christmas shad
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!?
BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!
But what about oh im to late
INeosIRex
WHAT ABOUT CHRISTMAS?!
Dragon mounted ballista turret. I just like the visual.
dragon mounted gau-8
Dragon-mounted Vulcan rotary cannon
Remember the Filmation Flash Gordon series? The great eagles had limited-traverse turrets on their backs, operated by the riders.
I'm picturing something similar.
Should add the artists signatures under each picture since your using their work for your content.
Not all artists put signatures on work, and a number of these were book covers that wouldn't be owned by the artist. Still, a good practice when possible to have a small note for attribution, but it may be in the description not necessarily on screen.
I like the Nameless King boss in Dark souls 3. He rides a dragon and seems perfectly armed to do so. He used a massive sword-spear. But he was pretty big too.
Yeah but most of the attacks is the storm drake moving closer to you so that he can hit you with the sword spear. The one attack that his strategy does make sense is the dive attack after he throws lightning. To but honest he should just stay in the air and throw lightning while the drake breathes fire.
context... context... context... BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?
ROAR!
Have you ever read Temeraire? It's a book about the Anglo-French war, except that it has dragons in it. Dragons, being able to fly and really big, were weaponized and they actually large crews with fire arms and bombs. Looks like you came up with basically the same answer, just a few centuries behind!
I love that series!
Yep, you're right 😀
i was thinking the same thing throughout this video ^^
Best series ever... if only we would get a game or mod for that ^^
Oi, fellow Temeraire fan, high five! o/*
Thank you! You just gave me a great idea for the climax of one of my stories!
Finally watching all of these and I think this has to be my favorite solution so far!
Maybe a sword could be to defend against others (angels? harpies? Spider-Man?) from latching on to the vulnerable back of a dragon, kind of like Chief of Security aboard the USS Enterprise?
This, quite frankly any melee or range weapon a rider can carry will be inferior to the attack of the dragon. So as opposed to a second point of attack, a symbiotic use is far more likely to be useful.
Raise the Banner!
Singularity24601 why don't give the Dragon a Sword?
Singularity24601 in that situation of dragon to dragon combat, I think it's more plausible if it just keeps the bow and arrow. Like in. A dogfight in ww1, they don't keep to close range fighting, close range for a sword at least. The dragons would be constantly moving and it would be difficult to use a sword or a spear onto an opponent. Angel, same thing just keep the bow. Spider-Man, nothing can stop Spider-Man
Or the other way around: jump onto an enemy dragon like a pirate
Bought a Dragon-shirt some months ago. Quite satisfied, although people keep asking what band it is...
why is that an "although people keep asking", wouldn't "people even keep asking".?
Because people think it's a band... And it's not a band... And it's annoying... : ^)
"The dragon itself is the weapon"
So what you're saying is..
Another dragon? 🤔
A most excellent video as always.
Me: "Context Context Context!!!"
scholagladiatoria: Hi folks Matt Easton here Schola Glatiatoria!"
Me: " Ahh!!"
Welcome to Scholagladiatoria. As some of you may know I've been on a stint about Wootz recently. I've been testing a number of my swords from my collection with .....
"Hi folks Matt Easton here from Schola Gladiatora!"
"BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?!"
is this the new airline food or something?
I always felt that a dragon rider's weapon is used primarily when there NOT on there dragon because lets face it the're not always going to be on the dragon.
Calvary men where not always on there horses because well. You can't exactly ride a horse in a castle hallway now can you?
Like fantasy paratroopers. Get dropped behind enemy lines and take strategic objectives while your dragons are flying about delaying and distracting.
yeah, but probably should keep it sheathed during flight.
The sword or lance could be for killing giant spiders.
Exactly. And from the perspective of a dragon-cavalry man, a weapon that's easily sheathed for self-dense, or offense when dismounting, is paramount. So a sword after all.
This intro had me dieing, well deserved like good sir. Amazing vid
While ranged weapons seem like a decent option, since Dragons are usually only ever seen in high fantasy, I think the best riders for Dragons would be wizards, not knights. They could either use enhancement and protective spells on their Dragon, or offensive spells on their opponents. Imagine if the Dragon and it's rider didn't just have firebreath and claws as an offensive options, but also fireballs, lightning bolts, and other typical wizard spells.
Context.
CONTEXT!
COOOOOOOOONTEXT!!!
.
.
.
.
.
- So where is this person that was supposed to appear and talk about swo... *sudden teleportation behind* Oh my world!
You said context twice and conext once.
He warned you...
Ravenous While you were writing context three times Matt was occupied, because I tried it a few seconds earlier. He was very kind to give me an officer jacked and now I am the guy who looks sexy as fuck.
Ooops. You are right. Fixed it.
So you want me to assure you that these three years of passionate love weren't wasted but instead can be the springboard towards a lifelong marriage with the potential of raising children together as we grow older? Though...
*WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS???!?!!!?!!?!?!?!?!*
In the Inheritance Cycle, Eragon uses a sword for a couple of reasons. Usually, he’s either fighting on the ground while Saphira fights in the sky, or he is fighting another dragon rider, in which case the dragons sometimes lock onto and bite one another, and are thus close enough to hit with a sword. There’s also a part where he jumps off of Saphira mid-flight to hit the other dragon.
Autumn twilight was my first one as well . Love that book series
Obviously you wouldn’t need a weapon at all. The dragon is the weapon. You only need weapons if your dragon is killed.
A sorcerer would be the best dragon rider.
Range weapons [bows to shoot other dragon riders or magic if its available] could be useful for covering angles the dragon can't easily cover. How much a dragon's neck can turn varies from work to work, as well as how fast it can turn around, but in the cases of slow turning/not being able to move the neck much, having someone who can launch attacks BEHIND the dragon might be useful.
Have you watched the whole video?
Do dragons even need riders? It would probably be easier to train a dragon to just go nuts on your enemy than to train it to be a mount
Light weight Crossbows and a shield
Or light bow and a heavy Crossbow for against other dragons and A shield
@@ethanhess8230 I think the whole point of riders were to drive the dragon, like with reins I guess or to command it.
When I was young I read a book called His Majesty's Dragon and it were about dragon riders in a slightly less medival and more clasical era, interesting read. The thing with this setting however, was that each dragon had a rider with some sort of bond to the dragon, and in addition to that, the dragon had a literal crew of people, much like a navy ship would.
I know this is very setting-dependent and not really in the scope of these types of videos, but it would seem like the ideal dragon rider would be a skilled magic-user in their own right, being able to toss down spells or use them to augment the dragon's performance or protect it. Even if the dragons are the more animal type and require a fair amount of guidance and control by the rider, they would still probably have openings to use spells.
I love this video with all my heart! I'd like to just add a few things that could be considered when writing about dragons and riders.
1. Melee weapons could be carried by the rider only in the anticipation of dismounting at some point (if dragon is bigger than horse/elephant).
2. In addition to the flechette, I always see medieval fantasy worlds with some kind of mixed technology or magic, so another ranged weapon could be akin to an incendiary bomb/grenade that could be dropped on formations when the dragon flies upward and out of reach.
3. The single dragon rider stereotype seems to stem from a particular bond between dragon and rider, or in other scenarios where it takes way too much practice for a bunch of other guys to learn how to hold on to an organic, spiky, flappy machine, or there's no safe way to hang on past 2 or 3 riders. Again, it all totally depends on the design of your dragon. You could very well design a turret tower in the sky!
4. Rocks, boiling oil, tar, bolas, etc. If you can cap it and hold it, you can drop it!
A book series which tackles dragon riders in a really cool way is Temeraire (His Majesty's Dragon in some countries). It asks the most important question regarding Napoleonic warfare: But what about dragons?!
So not really your standard medieval fantasy setting and more of an alternate history take, but with great world building and a nice plot and good writing to boot! Basically: dragons get so big they need a full crew to man them (like you said, but with guns), and boarding is a very real threat, so swords are a very relevant weapon. And instead of flechettes they drop bombs. Or carry cannons.
Temeraire, from Naomi Novik, is doing an absolutely wonderful job at re-imagining napeloanian-era warfare with dragons. It is an excellent read for any person interested in realistic fantasy warfare, strongly recommended.
Dynahazzar I was going to mention this but you beat me to it. Well done. I haven't read the latest book yet though.
I was going to suggest this too!
Came here to say this. That series is incredible. Anybody who enjoyed this video should certainly pick up that series.
Thank you kind person for mentioning my favorite series and how i generally view dragons now.
Thanks!
They should use a special weapon called "Dracarys".It's very effective!
But what about dragons that don't understand that language?
or build Ancalagon The Black and could swallow Balerion whole.
But what when you dismount that dragon and mount a friend? What about daggers?
This is visionary. Dragons essentially become a medieval airforce with all the benefits of reconnaissance, troop transport, and sabotage abilities. I would like to see a tactical/strategic assessment of the dragon and how they might be used as weapons of war too.
Would it not reduce mobility / maneuverability if the dragon was made into a flying weapons platform? Unlike elephants dragons maneuver in three dimensions, a sudden evasive action could easily lead to crew members falling off or dropping their weapons, unless it restrained itself from moving in certain ways, which in turn results in it becoming a much easier target.
In this case, one would assume all crew members would be attached to the dragon somehow, not just the main rider. Rope would be the simplest option, but maybe the 'saddle' would be extended to allow multiple people to attach. Having a platform of some kind would greatly hinder maneuverability and speed, but when you think about how large a dragon would have to be to support the weight of one, their wingspan would be too big and make it nearly impossible to shoot from any angle unless they're along the neck or near the base of the tail, making the cons outweigh any pro. As for losing weapons/ammunition, I'm sure in a world where dragonriding is common, they would've devised ways to minimize it as much as possible.
The Temeraire series explores this topic quite nicely. There the dragons are covered in nets and their crew use something akin to climbing gear.
Patrick Keller Didn't they have firearms?
It is set in an Alternative Napoleonic War. So yes they had single shot firearms. Mostly pistols, because they could be attached to the person more easily. But they would stach and use rifles on top of the dragon.
Also they had people in the belly net with bombs. Also swords and daggers were quite common, because they would board each other's dragons.
It really just depends on if you are willing to sacrifice maneuverability for fire power. If you aren't willing to reduce any natural dragon abilities for the addition of human abilities, just tell the dragon what to attack and send them in alone.
:3 i know still not as terrifying as fairys ^^ lol
That gave me nightmares...
"KEEP. THE DRAGON. LIT."
What if you put a whole bunch of fairies on the dragon?
shardinhand Well a fly swatter cant protect you from a dragon.
The book series Temeraire has the dragons used as a form of airforce with cannons and the like mounted on them with harnesses that allow a sizable crew of humans to maneuver around them mid flight., those dragons do get quite massive though
Resuming the journey through the whole catalogue of videos to comment, like, and fully watch each video for engagement and channel growth.