Karl "Just deactivate a gun by shoving a crayon in it" Ian "Funny you should say that I know of a gun deactivated by a pencil" Of course it would be Ian, after all in French pencil is "crayon".
The Cobalt Kinetics competition AR's had a feature almost like that '1 round left warning' feature, on an empty mag they would lock open, auto drop the mag, and when a loaded mag was inserted, auto drop the bolt and chamber a round. Re: NDM-86's, the Chinese actually improved upon the SVD in regards to the barrels twist rates, the Soviets severely limited theirs by insisting on a really weird twist rate that would allow them to use explosive observation ammo, which meant their dedicated sniper ammo sucked, they only fixed that twist rate issue in 2016, and its still not in service with anyone. The NDM's fixed that as a specific part of their design and are mechanically more accurate. Always funny when people go "hurr durr NDM ain't an SVD", no, its better than one.
In fact, Soviet production SVD had that barrel twist rate (1 to 12.6) just for the one cartridge - 7H1 (7N1 in English). It has a very light ball and was made specifically for the SVD. But, with that twist rate SVD could not normally fire any different type of ammo (tracer, AP and API). And that "problem" was "decided" in the middle 90s, with the steeper (1 to 9.4) twist rate. And those SVDs can normally shoot with every special cartridge (tracer, AP and API), but they shoot really bad with the old and light 7H1. That problem was decided in the early 00s with the adoption of the 7H14 cartridge. Today Russian military SVDs are OK. But they OK only with that expensive 7H14 cartridge.
Load the mag with 3 tracer at the bottom of the mag which acts as a warning your about to run dry and at the top of the mag the 1st 2 rounds are ball to get rounds down at the target, then 3 tracer for quick target indication, ( watch my tracer). To bring others shooters online. Simple method. K.I.S.S
Mauser HSc pistols lock open normally when empty, but do that "drop the slide when a new mag is inserted" trick. It's less convenient than it seems like it should be.
One wouldn't even need a beam, you could just tie them to a long enough string. Would one be able to see bullet impacts in an adequately prepared patch of ground? Maybe some sandy area raked flat similar to the sad pit in long jump? You'd still need to count hits somehow, but if you find enough people to help out with the shootingyou could just have them walk across the target area in a line and count. Not as entertaining as the sex dolls, though . . . Or maybe a test like that was the reason behind the gur from the maths problem buying an insane amount of melons.
Re: big bore AR. I've got a 450 BM for hunting, great way to meet the strait wall requirements for my state. Kicks like a mule, drop off after about 250 or 300 yards is extreme. If you already have an AR and live in a state with strait walled cartridge requirements for hunting, it's a good way to go.
Ian and Karl: Testing volley fire is actually much easier than you think. Just get 20 people with 10/22s together, put up 20 silhouette targets at 500 meters and blast away! :-)
for the MAS 36 zeroing, if remember the rifles were shipped with a "N" leaf, which has the hole in the center. it's then the job of the unit armourer to install the correct rear sight leaf after the rifle had done a 5 shot group on a paper target at 200m, the mean point of the group is then taken to determine which of the 25 leafs is needed to zero the rifle, and the rifle then shoot a confirmation grouping to check the new zero but if the rifle was never put in the field, or for some reason the rear sight was damaged and replaced, or someone fidgeted with the forend of the rifle, then a zeroing session is in order
about the volley-fire subject, i live in Lebanon {middle east}, there are a lot of tensions between political parties here, firing in the air is considered a form of celebration, what ends up happening is that when tensions get a bit much, people wait till there is an excuse to fire, as in their political leader is making a speech, wedding or even a funeral, they fire in air, but in the direction of the arias under the political influence of their political adversaries, they end up knowing the angle to hold at, to hit the right spot, they use mostly AK-47s and M16s, but FALs and G3s are present in large numbers too, my neighborhood has been targeted by volley-fire multiple times.
For the volley fire test. Use helium filled balloons. They should be readily visible could spaced about the distance the men would be in a formation. Have the balloons chest high. Count the the number of balloons before and after.
C'mon, we all know what OP means in this context. But since we're nitpicking I should point out that you wrongly mention the smg, which may be designed by the man but nobody ever calls it "a lahti" but fail to mention the LMG that is named after him (and some other guy). Sad!
I want to make a .50 Beowulf AR, but that's just because I want to clone the Survivalist's rifle from the Honest Hearts DLC of Fallout New Vegas. I think I have all the parts figured out, too.
You ain't cleaned an AR until you clean one that was used on a 2 week FTX in the army where you *HAD TO* fire 150+ blanks. That blank adapter loads that chamber and bore with some serious carbon. Of course it has to pass the armorer's inspection. Firing off a few without the adapter helps some with the bore, but man that chamber gets gunky. *:-)*
Maybe a can of spray surficant like super slick stuff in the rucksack? A quick spray whenever you can to break up the fouling should help. I do for peace of mind, long past my ruck humping days.
One stage could be "shoot at reveneurs from behind a still then carry jugs of moonshine to the car." Driving at high speed on mountain roads with a trunk full of moonshine jugs would be optional.
@@roosterball69 Talisker is good, but I've a big love for the southern Islays, for the full "punch you in the face" experience you can't beat the 10 year old cask strength laphroaig, it'll teach all you need to know before you move on to its older more civilised relatives :-)
@@wierdalien1 Depends on the state. I can get it just fine but some states have ridiculous state controlled liquor stores and you get what they have, nothing else.
A few years ago, I restored my grandfather's M1903A3 Springfield that he had sporterized when he was younger. I wasn't trying to increase its value or anything, we were just talking about it one day, and he told me he had used it in competition when he was in the Army Reserve in the '50s, then bought it for himself and converted it into a deer rifle when he got out. Then he sighed and said something like, "I wish I hadn't done that now." So I bought a new "C" stock set from the CMP, tracked down the rest of the bands and screws and bits and bobs from around the net, and my dad and I spent an afternoon putting it back together. I'm sure it's nowhere near properly bedded or anything; we're not gunsmiths and we weren't trying to be, we just wanted it to look right. Had to smuggle it into the nursing home to show it to Gramp, which is not the easiest thing to do with a four-foot-long rifle, but it was worth it just to hear him say "I never thought I'd see that again."
1:58 Huh?! I can't imagine EVER damaging a barrel with a bronze or nylon brush and basic bore cleaner like Hoppes or CLP. You'd have to be some kind of monster to INTENTIONALLY remove chrome from the bore. 28:30 Colorado needs a Brutality match! 30:43 I'm with Ian - Scotch. The peat doesn't remind me of hops at all... more like the malty roasty chocolatey flavor of a good Porter or Stout. I also picked up some "Baker St" tea (yes THAT Baker St, elementary) from a place in Victoria, BC that has an amazing (though a bit harsh) gunpowder and tobacco flavor.
For a while, I've been wondering why the hell 5 MOA (on a good day) rifles, issued to untrained grunts would have sights out to 2500m. Thanks, now I know.
For testing volley fire, I think an easy and safe way to do it might be to go to a large lake (where this would be allowed) on a day without much wind. You could drop buoys at set intervals to gauge distances and have a drone or two overhead record splashes. I know bullets can skip, but if the lake is big enough and the angle is steep enough, it would probably work. Just an idea and it seems like it would be cool to try
@InRangeTV Long range rifle volley fire targets: 100 yard X 20 or 30 yard canvas, horizontal on the ground, with a slightly under two yard, vertical canvas front . Looked at very carefully afterwards. That should work fairly well for a mass target at long range, I would think.
The main issue with Volley fire using volley sights as discovered during WW1 is there are other things that can give same or even more effect for the effort. For example if the spotting plane saw that column of German Infantry marching 2500yds from your lines if you put a couple of Vickers Guns and a some small bombs on it rather than radio for a Volley attack it could go over and strafe them far more quickly and effectively. Or if an infantry unit gets word of this German Column in the open 2500yds away a medium Mortar would be far more effective for the task hence the introduction of Mortar platoons organic to an infantry unit.
The key effect in sustained volley fire is area denial. Actual casualties are just a bonus. While the plane may get there faster and cause more actual damage, it will still be insignificant with a Great War patrol plane. That attack will be also quite short. It may delay the enemy for a a minute but not much more. The rifle fire can be sustained for prolonged periods of time. Mortar, on the other hand, is definitely the weapon for this role.
I think the best way to test the volley sights on an old milsurp is to find an old barn that you can shoot at. That way you'll be able to tell if you can actually hit the broad side of a barn with the volley sights.
The beaten zone of machine gun is effective at causing casualties without bullets actually hitting people. I spoke to a soldier from the Falklands War who was incapacitated in combat by the splash from the beaten zone of an Argentinian MAG. He had numerous superficial projectile wounds to his lower body that caused him to become incapacitated. He was perfectly fine when I saw him except for a multitude of fine linear scars. Splash is bullet fragments and stones and splinters put out by the bullets falling to the ground.
I once worked for a small company that supplied rocket motors to a university. They were using those motors to mount on little sleds fired down a cable at about mach 3. The purpose of this was testing those very same radar tracking systems.
There needs to be an "OffRange" sub channel or podcast, where Ian and Karl discuss whatever tangential thoughts come up. It should start recording after they finish the second alcoholic beverage.
As an addendum to my comment about the Coast Guard's .499 LW.... A number of "reduced range" bullets for the .50 BMG have been developed since then. Most of them have odd shapes like scalloped areas on the nose or small fins on the tail to slow the rotation of the bullet to make it unstable after a certain range and/or increase drag enough to drastically reduce its range. The rounds retain essentially full power and decent accuracy up to several hundred meters, but won't fly for miles like the standard rounds.
re: volley fire, set up a platoon of steel painted IPSC targets on a big range. Rent Dry Creek if you have to. Have at it, you should be able to see hits on painted steel.
It sounds like you wouldn't want to do the testing, (and I couldn't really tell if you were asking since paper was mentioned or if anyone else would care) but it was my understanding that Volley Fire used to be tested by using large sheets (cloth), that would be checked for holes.
for the volley fire idea, get a drone and/or a remote camera setup and the biggest painted steel target you can find, it could even be mild steel. just shoot until a bullet hits the paint and count the time it takes for however many people to hit the target once or ten times.
I'm in the Coast Guard, have been for 6 years. I haven't heard of us using a rifle in anything but 5.56. Our line throwing guns are modified 1903 Springfields. They do issue kits to throw line with fully stock M-16's, but I've never seen it used.
You mentioning that there's an "old" InRange video about the Battle Of K-H Butte made me feel old. I remember when my subscriber notification came about that video, it was 4 years ago, feels like yesterday.
I'm the same as Karl with my ARs, although if you shoot steel case, you need to clean your chamber every 500-1500 rounds in order to prevent stuck cases. It's not melted laquer or polymer, it's the fact that steel does not expand as readily as brass and leads to your chamber getting tighter and tighter and eventually you will get a stuck case. Thanks as always guys!!
The M4 zero range at Ft. Knox had some sort of radar tracking system to determine round impact so shooters did not have to go down range to check targets during zero. This might be what you’re looking for as far as volley fire radar range, Ian.
A possible solution to the volley fire experiment would be too use tracer rounds with a really long burn time and/or incendiary rounds at low light conditions.
A better last round warning may be the mag dropping as soon as the last round is chambered. Having said that, I'm not sure I would want any such system.
To assess hits of volley fire at distance - you can't use a simple 6' wall of paper or cloth unless you use multiple such walls (besides, vertical targets are questionable at distance where the bullets are dropping almost vertically). You could use a horizontal target (as you mentioned), but paper is impractical at that - this is where cloth might be useful (basically a big sail - maybe a surplus?). I've seen US Army demonstrations in which the targets were basic man-shapes distributed in the manner of infantry in loose formation. That brings up the question of what you are trying to test - volley fire as practiced from the 1700s through the Boer War or beaten zones as practiced starting in WWI through now.
On the big bore AR calibers, I recall that most of those were designed with the intent of cracking engine blocks. So disabling vehicles. The USCG does have marksmen in helicopters for intercepting drug boats (or did, this isn't overly new info) and after firing the machine gun across the bow, they disable the engine by popping it with a rifle.
they adopted 458 socom when fighting mogadishu forces due to wound ballistics at distances on people that are effectively high on cocaine, so they took like 10 shots to go down. since below a certain speed, 5.56 doesnt fragment, its wound capabilities will be worse when compared to something like .458 socom its a great story also russian caravan tea is really good
Yeah, I played the restoration game with a Finn M39 once (chopped barrel and stock). Ended up spending $300 more on the restoration than I did for my original configuration one, for something that ended up being effectively a new gun. And even then, the refinished parts didn't come out quite the same as the original finish, and I made a HUGE mess with potassium permanganate trying to match the repro handguard to the original production replacement stock. And that's before all the trouble with out of spec chambers and bolt heads.
on the last round warning thing, long ago I thought of a bolt hold open with the pin that touches the follower extended down so it holds open with one in the mag gun runs empty, hit the bolt release, then the mag release... but for issues; the manual of arms not being bog-standard, and seating a full mag on a closed bolt sucks no matter the pattern of gun
Wild Card Bitches Yeehaw Finnish issue ammo has always been copper jacketed lead bullets without massively corrosive primers. Soviets absolutely needed hard chrome barrels due to abrasion from steel jacketed steel core bullets and insanely corrosive powder and primer combos. Finnish rifles were supposed to have hard chrome barrels but the manufacturing process was not ready at the start of mass production and because it wasn't strictly necessary they didn't bother even after they got the process right. Hard chroming releases hydrogen into the underlying steel and if not done right it can cause excessive hydrogen embrittlement.
For volley fire, a calm lake / river / pond and a known size bullet landing area that is monitored by drone , fixed camera's? Then count the splashes. Or maybe wait until the water landing area freezes and count the marks in the ice.
You don't need to clean your ARs because you live in a zero-degree humidity region. I've seen two SIG-550 in Switzerland who haven't been cleaned for 4 and 6 years. Not many rounds mind you. Repeat service and yearly qualification. Yet the gas tubes definitely needed cleaning as both needed to be set to fouled setting to work properly. Context / surroundings of use matter. See also rust on cars in snowy regions on the same principle.
Came for the guns, stayed for the alcohol. I agree with Ian on scotch but, should I ever get down to the SW, I'll certainly search out some worm-free mescal (not that findable my side of the pond). Thanks guys, as always.
Okay just me? People keep saying they want a round counter. I think instead: Clear lancer mag Clear poly power (lightweight!) Now you can see all but a few rounds! Add clear aluminum to the mix...
The thought is to not need to break aim/firing for ammo check, like a gas gauge on your car. You dont have to stop, get out, and crawl under a clear gas tank to see how much you have left.
@@morgan3688 but there are people who drill into their motorcycle gas tank and put an angled transparent tube that allows you to see the rough level of the fuel in the tank without a gauge. The transparent mag is more comparable to that than exiting the vehicle.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Motorcycle gas tanks are on the top, directly in front of the rider. Magazines are on the bottom of rifles. The importance of this is you have to look around the gun and recognize the mag level, which gives an approx of rnds left. There is very little benefit over a windowed Pmag or smokey polymer. An interesting idea would be a led disply attached to the pic rail, which used a resistance contact in the follower of the mag to determine the height of the follower, and thus roundcount. The only issue is the utilization of electronics may not be as reliable as visual confirmation.
Clear lower and magazine doesn't run out of batteries. Magazine is on the bottom, the whole point of a clear set up would be allowing you to inspect it from the side.
The 458 socom was developed for socom after Mogadishu ( Black Hawk Down) They had a problem with the enemy taking several hits but still returning fire and wanted a round with knock down instant lethality.
To the red dots clouding issue, that seems to make very pertinent a tool-less mounting system that can be readily detached in case of failure, be it battery/emitter/lens issues, having backup irons is pointless if you can't use them!
On the whole peaty/smoky scotch thing: There are lots of types of smoky flavor. Personally I'm not a fan of the peaty smoked whiskys of Scotland, and much prefer something like Glenmorangie or Macallan. I do like milder smoky ones like Highland Park more than something like Laphroaig (in my mouth it tastes nice, but the aftertaste is just an instant flashback to a well used ashtray in a bus company lounge in the early 90s...), but on the other hand I'm a humongous fan of heavily smoked beer from Bamberg etc., proper rauchbier, where the malts are usually smoked with beech wood. I think the reason why Karl likes the smoky mezcal is because it's a wood smoke, not a peat smoke taste. I'm betting I'd also like a heavily smoked whisky a lot better if it was wood smoked rather than peat smoked. Sadly, I've yet to find one. If anyone has tips for me, give me a shout!
On the topic of "saving" sporterized milsurp, I've fixed up two No.4 mk1s and one No.5 mk1. The No.5 because it was a screaming deal for a jungle carbine and I had a line on the wood for it already. The No.4s because I got the rifles for basically free and by the time I had sourced all the parts I needed it was basically the cost of buying two whole No 4s. Not to mention the work of properly fitting the wood. Do not recommend.
We used to load tracer as 2nd and 4th to last in each mag. Theory was, first tracer tells you "better head for cover now, you're running low. Second tracer tells you "empty mag, one in the chamber. Change mags now!". This was with G3 rifles, no holdopen so getting a warning was kind of useful.
Karl, one might argue that your NDM-86 has the advantage over "real" SVDs precisely because it's in .308. It's a rimless cartridge, which tends to be more reliable, and .308 ammunition is typically higher quality, which gives you a better chance of producing that mythical accuracy.
I saw them test Volley Fire in a documentary by running a line of cable across the ground and tying a ballon at chest height at regular intervals to simulate a unit moving in formation in a pre-WW1 sort of mindset
On the volley fire experiment; Maybe you can crisscross the field with differently-colored sand to mark locations, then do it at night with tracers and long-range cameras?
Heel Team Six, Sure! Load 4 tracers as the last 4 rounds to feed in each magazine. Problem solved. Ian, The USCG had been looking at a Leitner-Wise LW15 in .499, though I have seen second hand claims that .50 Beowulf was decided on instead, for the purpose of shooting the engine block of drug boats. Paul Leitner-Wise is/was a conman that conned Parker Hale some time ago, so that should be a bit of a judge of the person if not the company.
You can get huge rolls of paper that are commonly used to make murals in primary school art classes. They are about two meters by fifty. You could cover an area of one hundred meters square for a reasonable price. you also don't need to cover that much area as the question asked about hitting a platoon sized area.
powder is corrosive gas tubes on ar's get full and i fired thousands of rounds in the army never had to replace any exstractors or any parts kept em cleaned and oiled
I've been saying some mescal tastes like band-aids for years! This made me laugh so hard. Took me a few years to figure out what that god-awful familiar taste and scent was and it is EXACTLY that.
“I never clean my ARs,”
Karl would rather use his cleaning supplies to cook easy over eggs.
....yes there’s a video
I've seen it. It was a sub-par cooking oil.
Whats the video Title?
those were not cleaning supplies
@@shadowstorm657 it has fireclean in the title, might be two words.
Karl "Just deactivate a gun by shoving a crayon in it"
Ian "Funny you should say that I know of a gun deactivated by a pencil"
Of course it would be Ian, after all in French pencil is "crayon".
The Gun Geek within him has shown.
"I never clean my AR. If it feels weird, i just squirt in some oil"
*She didnt like that*
Karl's rifles: rode hard and put up wet
The Cobalt Kinetics competition AR's had a feature almost like that '1 round left warning' feature, on an empty mag they would lock open, auto drop the mag, and when a loaded mag was inserted, auto drop the bolt and chamber a round.
Re: NDM-86's, the Chinese actually improved upon the SVD in regards to the barrels twist rates, the Soviets severely limited theirs by insisting on a really weird twist rate that would allow them to use explosive observation ammo, which meant their dedicated sniper ammo sucked, they only fixed that twist rate issue in 2016, and its still not in service with anyone. The NDM's fixed that as a specific part of their design and are mechanically more accurate. Always funny when people go "hurr durr NDM ain't an SVD", no, its better than one.
In fact, Soviet production SVD had that barrel twist rate (1 to 12.6) just for the one cartridge - 7H1 (7N1 in English). It has a very light ball and was made specifically for the SVD. But, with that twist rate SVD could not normally fire any different type of ammo (tracer, AP and API). And that "problem" was "decided" in the middle 90s, with the steeper (1 to 9.4) twist rate. And those SVDs can normally shoot with every special cartridge (tracer, AP and API), but they shoot really bad with the old and light 7H1. That problem was decided in the early 00s with the adoption of the 7H14 cartridge. Today Russian military SVDs are OK. But they OK only with that expensive 7H14 cartridge.
Load the mag with 3 tracer at the bottom of the mag which acts as a warning your about to run dry and at the top of the mag the 1st 2 rounds are ball to get rounds down at the target, then 3 tracer for quick target indication, ( watch my tracer). To bring others shooters online.
Simple method. K.I.S.S
Mauser HSc pistols lock open normally when empty, but do that "drop the slide when a new mag is inserted" trick. It's less convenient than it seems like it should be.
For volley fire: a platoon of inflatable sex dolls. Only 30% joking. Seriously though, a long crossbeam and large balloons might work
Big ass beach balls
One wouldn't even need a beam, you could just tie them to a long enough string.
Would one be able to see bullet impacts in an adequately prepared patch of ground? Maybe some sandy area raked flat similar to the sad pit in long jump? You'd still need to count hits somehow, but if you find enough people to help out with the shootingyou could just have them walk across the target area in a line and count.
Not as entertaining as the sex dolls, though . . .
Or maybe a test like that was the reason behind the gur from the maths problem buying an insane amount of melons.
or take a page out of the Mythbuster book. foam (or cardboard) cutouts for targets, Utah Salt Flats for range
@@c3wichman Oh, Utah, they could drag Matt Landfair from Primary and Secondary out there too.
Re: big bore AR. I've got a 450 BM for hunting, great way to meet the strait wall requirements for my state. Kicks like a mule, drop off after about 250 or 300 yards is extreme. If you already have an AR and live in a state with strait walled cartridge requirements for hunting, it's a good way to go.
Ian and Karl: Testing volley fire is actually much easier than you think. Just get 20 people with 10/22s together, put up 20 silhouette targets at 500 meters and blast away! :-)
Man I would love to try that.
"You never need to clean this rifle!"-U.S. Army, Vietnam War.........
@Phillip Cameron Whoever signed off on that should have been court marshaled. Too bad they hid them well and no justice was served .
"The finest in drinks that make you blind!"
T shirt material honestly
I think its a quote from Firefly.
I like "InRange on alcohol"
INebriated Range
@@brownjolly Yes 😉
Listening to Ian and Karl talk about alcohol is fantastic.
Was wondering where part 2 was, and refreshed the page. Well here we are.
for the MAS 36 zeroing, if remember the rifles were shipped with a "N" leaf, which has the hole in the center. it's then the job of the unit armourer to install the correct rear sight leaf after the rifle had done a 5 shot group on a paper target at 200m, the mean point of the group is then taken to determine which of the 25 leafs is needed to zero the rifle, and the rifle then shoot a confirmation grouping to check the new zero
but if the rifle was never put in the field, or for some reason the rear sight was damaged and replaced, or someone fidgeted with the forend of the rifle, then a zeroing session is in order
about the volley-fire subject, i live in Lebanon {middle east}, there are a lot of tensions between political parties here, firing in the air is considered a form of celebration, what ends up happening is that when tensions get a bit much, people wait till there is an excuse to fire, as in their political leader is making a speech, wedding or even a funeral, they fire in air, but in the direction of the arias under the political influence of their political adversaries, they end up knowing the angle to hold at, to hit the right spot, they use mostly AK-47s and M16s, but FALs and G3s are present in large numbers too, my neighborhood has been targeted by volley-fire multiple times.
Thank you for the insight, I had always wondered if firing in the air was random or sneakily aimed
M
I always wondered about that, too! Screwed up you have to live under those circumstances!
Do I foresee an "InBar TV Q&A" format coming up soon? :P I for one liked that whole booze discussion :)
I probably learned more about alcohol in that five minutes then I have this past ten years.
For the volley fire test. Use helium filled balloons. They should be readily visible could spaced about the distance the men would be in a formation. Have the balloons chest high. Count the the number of balloons before and after.
Did Ian just quote Mal?! Awesome!
Noticed that too, shiney
Delighted my question invited such a ranging response. I'll try and get hold of some (non bandied flavoured) mescal. Thanks chaps 👍
They need to incorporate a lahti in finish brutality, that would be brutal
Kasarda Drill, except you throw L-39.
Lahti made more than one gun. Are you talking about the handgun, the anti-tank rifle, the submachine gun, etc.?
C'mon, we all know what OP means in this context. But since we're nitpicking I should point out that you wrongly mention the smg, which may be designed by the man but nobody ever calls it "a lahti" but fail to mention the LMG that is named after him (and some other guy). Sad!
I want to make a .50 Beowulf AR, but that's just because I want to clone the Survivalist's rifle from the Honest Hearts DLC of Fallout New Vegas. I think I have all the parts figured out, too.
Has have a wood stock then and a wooden pistol grip and forearm.
Same
@@ryangshooter_1682 Black Guns Wood makes that. Already have that part down.
@@ryangshooter_1682 And a crooked front sight
Karl cracked me up with his repurposing of the deactivated Chauchat barrel as a tomato stake 😂
Reduce, reuse, recycle.
You ain't cleaned an AR until you clean one that was used on a 2 week FTX in the army where you *HAD TO* fire 150+ blanks. That blank adapter loads that chamber and bore with some serious carbon. Of course it has to pass the armorer's inspection. Firing off a few without the adapter helps some with the bore, but man that chamber gets gunky. *:-)*
Never having done it, I never thought of that but yeah, I imagine that would make a proper mess of a gun in no time.
Maybe a can of spray surficant like super slick stuff in the rucksack? A quick spray whenever you can to break up the fouling should help. I do for peace of mind, long past my ruck humping days.
If you did an Appalachian Brutality, I would go in a heartbeat.
Seconded. If there was a match in Tennessee, I’d be there in a heartbeat.
Folks in East Tennessee would probably jump at that unique experience, considering it be advertised well. One can only dream.
@alan wake Appalachian could be anything from North Georgia or Alabama to Maine!
One stage could be "shoot at reveneurs from behind a still then carry jugs of moonshine to the car." Driving at high speed on mountain roads with a trunk full of moonshine jugs would be optional.
Have one in Kentucky!
Hey we like just seeing you two talk.
Volley fire, record fall of shot into a calm body of water? Record with drone from above with calibrated marking reference
but then where do you find such a body of water that you can shoot into. Especially when your in Arizona.
@@dfadgsadfga1816 surprising amount of water reservoirs there, access and permission is probably an issue though
@@GeorgeousOP Shooting lead into the water supply may be problematic.
Some sort of old mining pit or quarry that's already a place where the water is bad would work.
Desert salt flats after a rainstorm would work.
Lagavulin or laphroaig. Gets you smoke, peat and iodine (band aid). Bloody lovely.
@@roosterball69 Talisker isnt hard to find. Well it might be in US
@@roosterball69 Talisker is good, but I've a big love for the southern Islays, for the full "punch you in the face" experience you can't beat the 10 year old cask strength laphroaig, it'll teach all you need to know before you move on to its older more civilised relatives :-)
@@wierdalien1 Depends on the state. I can get it just fine but some states have ridiculous state controlled liquor stores and you get what they have, nothing else.
A few years ago, I restored my grandfather's M1903A3 Springfield that he had sporterized when he was younger. I wasn't trying to increase its value or anything, we were just talking about it one day, and he told me he had used it in competition when he was in the Army Reserve in the '50s, then bought it for himself and converted it into a deer rifle when he got out. Then he sighed and said something like, "I wish I hadn't done that now." So I bought a new "C" stock set from the CMP, tracked down the rest of the bands and screws and bits and bobs from around the net, and my dad and I spent an afternoon putting it back together. I'm sure it's nowhere near properly bedded or anything; we're not gunsmiths and we weren't trying to be, we just wanted it to look right. Had to smuggle it into the nursing home to show it to Gramp, which is not the easiest thing to do with a four-foot-long rifle, but it was worth it just to hear him say "I never thought I'd see that again."
21:30, place a staggered row of steel barrels on top of cheap tarps. You won't capture all the hits but it'll give you a good idea of effectiveness.
A friend of mine described mezcal as tequila's elder brother who spent some time in prison
Thats like Rum
Volley fire test that would be fun: Target is an enemy unit of 200 knockdown steel targets in ranks.
1:58 Huh?! I can't imagine EVER damaging a barrel with a bronze or nylon brush and basic bore cleaner like Hoppes or CLP. You'd have to be some kind of monster to INTENTIONALLY remove chrome from the bore.
28:30 Colorado needs a Brutality match!
30:43 I'm with Ian - Scotch. The peat doesn't remind me of hops at all... more like the malty roasty chocolatey flavor of a good Porter or Stout. I also picked up some "Baker St" tea (yes THAT Baker St, elementary) from a place in Victoria, BC that has an amazing (though a bit harsh) gunpowder and tobacco flavor.
For a while, I've been wondering why the hell 5 MOA (on a good day) rifles, issued to untrained grunts would have sights out to 2500m. Thanks, now I know.
Burbon is getting sickly sweet in the way that Whisky can be overly peaty. Great vid. :)
This was a very pleasant way to spend my early morning.
I always appreciate the "just two dudes talking" parts of q & a.
For testing volley fire, I think an easy and safe way to do it might be to go to a large lake (where this would be allowed) on a day without much wind. You could drop buoys at set intervals to gauge distances and have a drone or two overhead record splashes. I know bullets can skip, but if the lake is big enough and the angle is steep enough, it would probably work. Just an idea and it seems like it would be cool to try
@InRangeTV Long range rifle volley fire targets: 100 yard X 20 or 30 yard canvas, horizontal on the ground, with a slightly under two yard, vertical canvas front . Looked at very carefully afterwards. That should work fairly well for a mass target at long range, I would think.
"Got a secret stash of Berthiers that you're embarrased to tell me about?" I cracked up
The main issue with Volley fire using volley sights as discovered during WW1 is there are other things that can give same or even more effect for the effort. For example if the spotting plane saw that column of German Infantry marching 2500yds from your lines if you put a couple of Vickers Guns and a some small bombs on it rather than radio for a Volley attack it could go over and strafe them far more quickly and effectively. Or if an infantry unit gets word of this German Column in the open 2500yds away a medium Mortar would be far more effective for the task hence the introduction of Mortar platoons organic to an infantry unit.
The key effect in sustained volley fire is area denial. Actual casualties are just a bonus.
While the plane may get there faster and cause more actual damage, it will still be insignificant with a Great War patrol plane. That attack will be also quite short. It may delay the enemy for a a minute but not much more. The rifle fire can be sustained for prolonged periods of time.
Mortar, on the other hand, is definitely the weapon for this role.
Ian to Karl: I cannot explain your lack of taste. Ha!
I think the best way to test the volley sights on an old milsurp is to find an old barn that you can shoot at. That way you'll be able to tell if you can actually hit the broad side of a barn with the volley sights.
Are you saying your AR is perhaps... Self cleaning?
No.
@@InrangeTv :p
@@InrangeTv Self-lubricating perhaps?
@@ColdCanuck50 nein
@@IEversmann1 Ten
I have a 50 Beowulf, it's fun. That's what I have it for but given the right circumstances it would also be a good shorter range hunting rifle too.
The beaten zone of machine gun is effective at causing casualties without bullets actually hitting people. I spoke to a soldier from the Falklands War who was incapacitated in combat by the splash from the beaten zone of an Argentinian MAG. He had numerous superficial projectile wounds to his lower body that caused him to become incapacitated. He was perfectly fine when I saw him except for a multitude of fine linear scars. Splash is bullet fragments and stones and splinters put out by the bullets falling to the ground.
Dahlgren, Virginia navy river range uses radar like that.
I once worked for a small company that supplied rocket motors to a university. They were using those motors to mount on little sleds fired down a cable at about mach 3. The purpose of this was testing those very same radar tracking systems.
There needs to be an "OffRange" sub channel or podcast, where Ian and Karl discuss whatever tangential thoughts come up. It should start recording after they finish the second alcoholic beverage.
I have my question for the next q&a: How does Karl know what bandaids taste like.
My question for you: Why don't you?
The Islay scotches pick up iodine from coastal sea spray on the peat.
Phillip Cameron Lol, I didn’t see the ‘as’ in your reply and for a moment thought you go around munching on used bandaids you steal from children :D
As an addendum to my comment about the Coast Guard's .499 LW.... A number of "reduced range" bullets for the .50 BMG have been developed since then. Most of them have odd shapes like scalloped areas on the nose or small fins on the tail to slow the rotation of the bullet to make it unstable after a certain range and/or increase drag enough to drastically reduce its range. The rounds retain essentially full power and decent accuracy up to several hundred meters, but won't fly for miles like the standard rounds.
That last question is a tough one but there's a clear and undeniable answer
Gin
That suggestion at the end blew me away!
re: volley fire, set up a platoon of steel painted IPSC targets on a big range. Rent Dry Creek if you have to. Have at it, you should be able to see hits on painted steel.
It sounds like you wouldn't want to do the testing, (and I couldn't really tell if you were asking since paper was mentioned or if anyone else would care) but it was my understanding that Volley Fire used to be tested by using large sheets (cloth), that would be checked for holes.
for the volley fire idea, get a drone and/or a remote camera setup and the biggest painted steel target you can find, it could even be mild steel. just shoot until a bullet hits the paint and count the time it takes for however many people to hit the target once or ten times.
I'm in the Coast Guard, have been for 6 years. I haven't heard of us using a rifle in anything but 5.56. Our line throwing guns are modified 1903 Springfields. They do issue kits to throw line with fully stock M-16's, but I've never seen it used.
I approve that my patreon money goes to boozy talk! xD
You mentioning that there's an "old" InRange video about the Battle Of K-H Butte made me feel old. I remember when my subscriber notification came about that video, it was 4 years ago, feels like yesterday.
I'm the same as Karl with my ARs, although if you shoot steel case, you need to clean your chamber every 500-1500 rounds in order to prevent stuck cases. It's not melted laquer or polymer, it's the fact that steel does not expand as readily as brass and leads to your chamber getting tighter and tighter and eventually you will get a stuck case. Thanks as always guys!!
That has not been my experience.
@@InrangeTv I know you are busy as hell, but I would love to hear what yours has been, if you do find the time.
Winter Brutality needs to be a thing.
Karl mentioned he wants to have two Finnish Brutalities a year, I bet the second one would be in winter.
*DEFINITELY*
Arizona is hot as hell. Finland is cold as hell. Finnish brutality should have a winter variant.
The M4 zero range at Ft. Knox had some sort of radar tracking system to determine round impact so shooters did not have to go down range to check targets during zero. This might be what you’re looking for as far as volley fire radar range, Ian.
A possible solution to the volley fire experiment would be too use tracer rounds with a really long burn time and/or incendiary rounds at low light conditions.
My dad sporterized a M1903 and M1971 back in the 1960's and it is a shame.
A better last round warning may be the mag dropping as soon as the last round is chambered. Having said that, I'm not sure I would want any such system.
congrats, you just reinvented the Mannlicher m1895
I'd love to see someone over here reproduce the FAMAS, preferably a modernized version.
To assess hits of volley fire at distance - you can't use a simple 6' wall of paper or cloth unless you use multiple such walls (besides, vertical targets are questionable at distance where the bullets are dropping almost vertically). You could use a horizontal target (as you mentioned), but paper is impractical at that - this is where cloth might be useful (basically a big sail - maybe a surplus?). I've seen US Army demonstrations in which the targets were basic man-shapes distributed in the manner of infantry in loose formation. That brings up the question of what you are trying to test - volley fire as practiced from the 1700s through the Boer War or beaten zones as practiced starting in WWI through now.
On the big bore AR calibers, I recall that most of those were designed with the intent of cracking engine blocks. So disabling vehicles. The USCG does have marksmen in helicopters for intercepting drug boats (or did, this isn't overly new info) and after firing the machine gun across the bow, they disable the engine by popping it with a rifle.
they adopted 458 socom when fighting mogadishu forces due to wound ballistics at distances on people that are effectively high on cocaine, so they took like 10 shots to go down.
since below a certain speed, 5.56 doesnt fragment, its wound capabilities will be worse when compared to something like .458 socom
its a great story
also russian caravan tea is really good
Yeah, I played the restoration game with a Finn M39 once (chopped barrel and stock). Ended up spending $300 more on the restoration than I did for my original configuration one, for something that ended up being effectively a new gun. And even then, the refinished parts didn't come out quite the same as the original finish, and I made a HUGE mess with potassium permanganate trying to match the repro handguard to the original production replacement stock. And that's before all the trouble with out of spec chambers and bolt heads.
Regional Brutality is a fantastic idea! Don't forget the Northwest. (I'm in Idaho)
on the last round warning thing, long ago I thought of a bolt hold open with the pin that touches the follower extended down so it holds open with one in the mag
gun runs empty, hit the bolt release, then the mag release...
but for issues; the manual of arms not being bog-standard, and seating a full mag on a closed bolt sucks no matter the pattern of gun
I am thinking volley fire has about the same effect as a machine gun's plunging fire.
Drones and go-pros could work for a volley fire experiment.
1:58 Definitely not a problem in Finland. Valmet/Sako never put chrome in the barrels in the first place 😂😭
Wild Card Bitches Yeehaw Finnish issue ammo has always been copper jacketed lead bullets without massively corrosive primers. Soviets absolutely needed hard chrome barrels due to abrasion from steel jacketed steel core bullets and insanely corrosive powder and primer combos. Finnish rifles were supposed to have hard chrome barrels but the manufacturing process was not ready at the start of mass production and because it wasn't strictly necessary they didn't bother even after they got the process right. Hard chroming releases hydrogen into the underlying steel and if not done right it can cause excessive hydrogen embrittlement.
For volley fire, a calm lake / river / pond and a known size bullet landing area that is monitored by drone , fixed camera's? Then count the splashes. Or maybe wait until the water landing area freezes and count the marks in the ice.
We all know that Rye is better than Scotch or Bourbon.
Rye has a certain .. flavor that is not present in scotch or bourbon.
The answer is Rum, because the variety and it is mixablity.
23:00 About the volley fire, how about using glass plates in the area? As they start breaking, you know it got hit!
You don't need to clean your ARs because you live in a zero-degree humidity region.
I've seen two SIG-550 in Switzerland who haven't been cleaned for 4 and 6 years. Not many rounds mind you. Repeat service and yearly qualification. Yet the gas tubes definitely needed cleaning as both needed to be set to fouled setting to work properly.
Context / surroundings of use matter. See also rust on cars in snowy regions on the same principle.
Came for the guns, stayed for the alcohol. I agree with Ian on scotch but, should I ever get down to the SW, I'll certainly search out some worm-free mescal (not that findable my side of the pond). Thanks guys, as always.
Okay just me? People keep saying they want a round counter. I think instead:
Clear lancer mag
Clear poly power (lightweight!)
Now you can see all but a few rounds!
Add clear aluminum to the mix...
The thought is to not need to break aim/firing for ammo check, like a gas gauge on your car. You dont have to stop, get out, and crawl under a clear gas tank to see how much you have left.
Has Scotty come back n given the formula out yet?
@@morgan3688 but there are people who drill into their motorcycle gas tank and put an angled transparent tube that allows you to see the rough level of the fuel in the tank without a gauge. The transparent mag is more comparable to that than exiting the vehicle.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Motorcycle gas tanks are on the top, directly in front of the rider. Magazines are on the bottom of rifles. The importance of this is you have to look around the gun and recognize the mag level, which gives an approx of rnds left. There is very little benefit over a windowed Pmag or smokey polymer. An interesting idea would be a led disply attached to the pic rail, which used a resistance contact in the follower of the mag to determine the height of the follower, and thus roundcount. The only issue is the utilization of electronics may not be as reliable as visual confirmation.
Clear lower and magazine doesn't run out of batteries. Magazine is on the bottom, the whole point of a clear set up would be allowing you to inspect it from the side.
The 458 socom was developed for socom after Mogadishu ( Black Hawk Down) They had a problem with the enemy taking several hits but still returning fire and wanted a round with knock down instant lethality.
To the red dots clouding issue, that seems to make very pertinent a tool-less mounting system that can be readily detached in case of failure, be it battery/emitter/lens issues, having backup irons is pointless if you can't use them!
Thanks for putting out the part 2. Thought the first one ended abruptly as if you were about to answer another question.
Karl: Big bullets are cool!
On the whole peaty/smoky scotch thing: There are lots of types of smoky flavor. Personally I'm not a fan of the peaty smoked whiskys of Scotland, and much prefer something like Glenmorangie or Macallan. I do like milder smoky ones like Highland Park more than something like Laphroaig (in my mouth it tastes nice, but the aftertaste is just an instant flashback to a well used ashtray in a bus company lounge in the early 90s...), but on the other hand I'm a humongous fan of heavily smoked beer from Bamberg etc., proper rauchbier, where the malts are usually smoked with beech wood. I think the reason why Karl likes the smoky mezcal is because it's a wood smoke, not a peat smoke taste. I'm betting I'd also like a heavily smoked whisky a lot better if it was wood smoked rather than peat smoked.
Sadly, I've yet to find one. If anyone has tips for me, give me a shout!
On the topic of "saving" sporterized milsurp, I've fixed up two No.4 mk1s and one No.5 mk1. The No.5 because it was a screaming deal for a jungle carbine and I had a line on the wood for it already. The No.4s because I got the rifles for basically free and by the time I had sourced all the parts I needed it was basically the cost of buying two whole No 4s. Not to mention the work of properly fitting the wood. Do not recommend.
Holy shit, Southeast Brutality! Call it Swamp Brutality. GA + FL gang will be there!
load a tracer as 2nd to last round to let you know that you have one round left? better than complicated design.
We used to load tracer as 2nd and 4th to last in each mag. Theory was, first tracer tells you "better head for cover now, you're running low. Second tracer tells you "empty mag, one in the chamber. Change mags now!". This was with G3 rifles, no holdopen so getting a warning was kind of useful.
@@Kaboomf we used to run first 3 and last 2 were tracers. First for sights and last 2 for warning
Karl, one might argue that your NDM-86 has the advantage over "real" SVDs precisely because it's in .308. It's a rimless cartridge, which tends to be more reliable, and .308 ammunition is typically higher quality, which gives you a better chance of producing that mythical accuracy.
The .45-70 has done 3300 yards volley fire
I saw them test Volley Fire in a documentary by running a line of cable across the ground and tying a ballon at chest height at regular intervals to simulate a unit moving in formation in a pre-WW1 sort of mindset
On the volley fire experiment; Maybe you can crisscross the field with differently-colored sand to mark locations, then do it at night with tracers and long-range cameras?
Another great chat. Keep it going boys
Heel Team Six,
Sure! Load 4 tracers as the last 4 rounds to feed in each magazine. Problem solved.
Ian,
The USCG had been looking at a Leitner-Wise LW15 in .499, though I have seen second hand claims that .50 Beowulf was decided on instead, for the purpose of shooting the engine block of drug boats. Paul Leitner-Wise is/was a conman that conned Parker Hale some time ago, so that should be a bit of a judge of the person if not the company.
You can get huge rolls of paper that are commonly used to make murals in primary school art classes. They are about two meters by fifty. You could cover an area of one hundred meters square for a reasonable price. you also don't need to cover that much area as the question asked about hitting a platoon sized area.
powder is corrosive gas tubes on ar's get full and i fired thousands of rounds in the army never had to replace any exstractors or any parts kept em cleaned and oiled
I've loaded subsonic .223. It did effectively turn my AR into a manually operated gun though. But it did work and it was quiet.
I'm with you on the mezcal vs tequila Karl. 👍 Vida is one of my personal favorites.
I've been saying some mescal tastes like band-aids for years! This made me laugh so hard. Took me a few years to figure out what that god-awful familiar taste and scent was and it is EXACTLY that.
I've often wondered if a barrel plug has ever just fallen out. That would be hilarious to see.
In response to the guy with the round left question wouldn't just putting a small hole to see brass In the mag work?
I have a Haenel CR223. Shoot it mostly in competitions. I've put 4000 rounds through it. Cleaned it twice.