Well to be fair, the entire industry needs a shake up. Otherwise no one is going to cycle... Its pretty fcked up where we find ourselves paying more for bicycles than motorbikes. Gonna hurt many but probably long overdue. The next generation is NOT going to cycle when an entry level decent bicycle is $3000 now. No.... No.... No.....
Often with small business during hard times the owner has already cut their own 'wages' and operational costs as low as they can and is faces the choice of lowering wages across the board or laying people off. That's not an easy choice and delivering the message sucks even worse. Especially when you know no matter what you say SOMEONE is going to be bitter and tell everyone how greedy you are. Big companies get away with just laying massive amounts of people off and those execs are not taking smaller bonuses or wages, haha!
@@bigslacker666 Sometimes laying off an employee is better for everyone else in the business. I think small shop owners struggle with this but 8 employees struggling with cut wages or hours is worse than laying off 2 and letting them collect EI while they look for other work.
Was going to get into MTB until I saw the outrageous prices. I can see paying maximum $1500, maybe even $2000 for all the bells and whistles but anything after that makes no sense to me. Explain me to why a bike can cost up to $7000? That’s insane.
I've said this before and I'll say it here. If you value true rider owned brands and financially afford it then try to look past the huge discounts and support smaller rider owned companies. These large corporate or publicly traded companies will be just fine through these hard times. It's the little guys who are going to need the support from the cycling community.
The bike industry has gotten stupid… I pay just a little more for a good motorcycle than a good MTB. The margins must be insane. I’ve been rolling on my 2014 Stumpy with lowing level Fox stuff for years because it just hasn’t been worth it to upgrade….but now I’m looking around a bit. The funny thing is the cost of bikes and components got so high I started getting way more into dualsport riding. Even did big trips to the Rockies with a bunch of friends. Those used to be MTB trips. I think the bike industry lost many of us. Even if I start doing a bit more mountain biking, I will never be into it like I was before prices went crazy.
100% Agree! To add to what you are saying, there are also no demos available, some maybe this year. I dont know about most people, but if I am looking to upgrade and spend easily over 5k for a bike I want to demo it. Thats not completely the shops fault, but I am not going to buy anything that expensive without a small test ride. Now I am lucky that I am just over 6ft. Probably by a 1/4inch, so I am always a large on bikes. My wife at 5ft 5 is royally screwed. By being in between sizes depending on the brand she needs to try two sizes. Lastly about e bikes, sure shops can transition over. But just look at Harley to know what you future is when you go all in on older people. It'll work for a few years, but it will end poorly for the shops.
It's 2023 and bike infrastructure is still horrendous in most of north america. I think a lot of people tried cycling during lockdowns but are realizing they dont want to risk their lives now that all the motorists are back on the roads and even more aggressive and/or careless than ever before. It like every few weeks I see news of a cyclists getting killed by a car, and then after that more news as their ghost bikes are hit again and again by cars!! I know I am extremely nervous riding anymore...😟
Not just that as these people weren't working making them bored so they though cycling would be a great idea , odds are most went on a dozen bike rides and now the bikes are sitting .
My local bike shop was happy to put the screws to me…I’m happy to not use them if there is an alternative, which there is. I have used some awesome bike shops, but none local to me.
My lbs might close this year, they haven't payed themself for a couple of months now and one guy resorted in getting a second job, while also working on Suspensions by reservation. I wish them the best, i've raced for 2 years with their team and i personally know the guys and consider them friends, i really try to buy everything i need from them but it's been rough and it ain't gonna be easy unfortunately
Lost Co has custom wheel builds with for $750. I went with Stans Flow MK4 and Spank Hex hubs (better than I9 1/1 IMO). Heck of a deal as far as I'm concerned. Love Lost Co!!!
Everybody keeps talking about this. Prices coming down, stores filled with inventory, bargains all over the place in pre-owned stuff. I live in Portugal and I see none of that. Prices are still on crazy highs as they have been for over two years. Is this a thing in the US only??
Higher end stuff has not come down, at least not much where I am. It's mostly on the low to mid entry level stuff that people buy and then realize they don't like riding as much as they thought or move on to the higher quality and priced bikes and components.
my local bike shop will pretty much match any realistic online price and will install that part for free. It helps also with warranty replacement if it comes down to it. i still buy some stuff online but the majority is still from my bike shop. they donate to the local trails too.
This is hopefully unrelated but I'll relay the story. I used to live in Mesquite, TX and bought my trail bike from a shop in Garland, TX Don Johle's Bike World. I don't live in TX anymore but I just heard that one of the shop employees was found shot dead in the shop and then Don, the owner, was found dead in his home just last week. I bought my bike from the guy and I send my deepest sympathies to the families involved.
These retail bike prices are 30% higher than were in 2018. It was just too much of a price increase too fast. His logic won’t work when the demand is low. I feel bad for these shops. Giving gear with a bike is not enough. 2023 bikes should be 15% off 2022 30% off 2024 models can’t be released until 2024. Back down to pre-Covid prices
And prices aren't going back to pre covid levels. They're still outrageously priced. They raked in the money over the last 3 years and are now whining about the entirely foreseeable.
I’m happy as a retro grouch septuagenarian to let young generation support the bike industry. I’m only interested in 1990s fully rigid American made aluminum bikes. CF outa my league. Bring back 26er v brakes threaded forks square taper BBs 7 speed cassettes!
It's funny that there is to much bikes now .. in early december we ordered a new bike for my wife from propain. Since she wanted something simple she went with the base config but it was a 2 month waitlist because of missing rockshox forks... Early january comes by and we got a call and the man on the phone of the Customer support of Propain(realy amazing guy btw) told us: hey listen we didnt get the forks for your bike and we cant complete the order as it is order. My wife was realy sad and expected to not get her bike. Then he said he rides himself and knows how that sucks so he upgraded all missing parts to the next available... Long story short: My wifes bike costed 2799€ and got a Lyrik Ultimate, Delux Ultimate, and an X01 drivedrain für the same money. Cheers to Michel from the Propain support.
good points about setting customer expectations. I will ALWAYS negotiate now since I know they have so much wiggle room. I love my LBS's, and support them, but it's been a rough couple years on consumers too. Thanks for the good content and analysis.
Agree... If many only knew how much wiggle room was available from wholesale/cost to MSRP. Some of these "deals" are at cost right now or just under the break even line. I never pay MSRP and always negotiate, if they don't want to negotiate find a shop who will. There's plenty to go around and most will ship.
You guys are completely wrong. You arent factoring in the thousands of dollars in overhead. If I were to lower bikes to 100 dollars above my cost I wouldn't have been able to EVER make it. You fail to understand how bad these shops are doing. I will never negotiate with a local shop on a deal. Ever. Because I'm aware its a last resort.
@@travelthenarrowtrail8660 if you shopped like that in Portland Oregon you wouldn't ever have a bike from a shop in Portland Oregon. Let me do the math for you. When you factor in shipping, and all other overhead needed to have a bike built on a sales floor, a shop is lucky to make even a hundred bucks. I havent payed myself since covid. I have a second job. I am barely afloat. And have nearly closed my doors too many times. Ive nearly been convinced to just find another job and to drop my business. I used to do a lot in repairs but now that the prices of parts skyrocketed, and after the absence of parts during the last few years, I now have very little service work. So dont negotiate, because the ones who will, are about to fail. Just watch. You'll see. Signed, the Diehard Bikes team.
@@tygrewesterfield841 Are you running a charity or a bike shop? Bikes aren't hard to work on so there isn't a need for a skilled labor force to be paid. 90% of the time I can get parts to my house faster and cheaper than I can through the LBS so that isn't really useful either. If you can't offer prices in line with the internet on bikes or parts service work is all you have to offer a normal customer. Most people are savvy enough to order online these days. Given the simplicity of the bike even service is within the realm of capability for most people, meaning you would have to offer quick service at reasonable prices. The bike shops that do well have branched out past the retail model and offer a social experience to their customers, if you can't do this odds are online competition is going to take a lot of your profit.
IMHO, bike mfrs are in trouble because 99% of the population wants a bike that does it all. And mfrs are only selling over specialized bikes. The avg Joe wants generalized do-it-all bikes. And shops don't allow component selection. They force components on a customer that they don't want.
Big industry brands have been gouging the consumer for years. High end bikes are at or over what motorcycles are selling for... WhatTF.. There is no comparison in R&D, Production or Materials cost.... NONE. The cycling consumer is finally going to figure that out, if not now as soon as they try to sell that overpriced 2 year old bike for half or less than they paid for it. Big Poop storm coming for the bike industry. Peace
Bought a bike for my daughter during Covid. Shop wouldn’t even throw in a water bottle. Bike shops like this did it to themselves. The first and last time I buy from that bike shop.
Expecting free stuff makes you sound entitled. I work for my money and i don't ask anyone for free money. I also pay for what i want, i never expect stuff for free.
Very entitled attitude. The shop doesn't get the accessories for free, so why should you? Because you bought something else? Imagine doing that at the grocery store.
It would be nice if they threw in a bottle, but expecting it shows an absurd sense of entitlement. Especially when, as noted in the video, bike shops are struggling.
Places capitalized on Covid, took loans and "free" government money. Now they whine. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming. And let's be honest, bikes have been stupidly over priced for a long, got worse over the last 3 years, and are now coming down to prices that are still higher than 3 years go.
Screw bike shops, all they do is rip people off. jack prices up way more than online warehouse prices... god forbid if you don't know how to work on your bike yourself youre wallet will be taken to the cleaners!! i didnt have a bottom bracket tool a while back and they charged me $60 just to unscrew 2 bearings!!
I don't go to bike shops due to the people working in there. Most family owned so many friends of the kids work thru the shops. Those people I find profile you once you walk in. You try to be respected but how they respond is always a rude vibe as you not really the type of biker they want to assist. Stopped by to get my rear tire changed only to tell the thank you and I be back , but you hear this : yeah, right remark as you leave.!?. I haven't been to bike shop in decades due to this ...
I have run my own independent workshop in the UK for past 9 years and last few months have been lean. Thankfully I’m by appointment only and so I’m working elsewhere doing other stuff 2 or 3 days of the week. This way I can go back to full time when things return to normal. How I miss normal 😂. 3 local cycle shops/workshops have closed in past year. I’m hoping my local shop survives as when things were normal we worked well together.
Lots of people leaving the industry because pay is not covering cost of living and inflation. Meanwhile lots of stores cannot get skilled staff or mechanics.
Too much obsolescence has killed many retailers. If I was a dealer, I would be looking at aged inventory every single day, and thinking of ways to get rid of it. Its literally dollar bills sitting on the shelf until you sell it. That's money you could be using to purchase stock you will actually sell. The older the item gets, the harder it will be to sell.
Gotta be careful with the lifetime warranty. Usually, Lifetime Warranty does not apply to the slow wear and tear that mountain bike components are subject to.
those santa cruz AL wheels are a solid entry level deal. 350 hub is excellent and uses the bigger easy to find bearings. rims are heavy but if they are anything like the ex511 which is a similar weight. those things hold up to factory riders doing enduro events. if someone doesn't mind tank wheels or a bigger person that's a great value. as for shops. they can discount or burn. they make a killing on each bike. we all know a 5k bike costs them about 2900 and the greed level is so excessive they can't imagine literally handing someone a box and only making 1k on it. if they don't, others will.
Helmets got to be $200+, when equally as good ones were $125 a few years ago. That probably has a lot to do with drop in sales combined with all the newbies who jumped in during 2020 amd then dropped out. Most of them were cheaper buyers on top of that.
Life time warranty on wheels is more bullshit marketing when new wheel standereds will make these non existent in the next 4 to 5 years. Just like it's hard to find a wheel with width hub standards from the mid 2010s.
Check out canyons latest sales. They are pretty steep. 😃 great components on carbon bikes like the neuron 8 for $2399. This is exciting for us long time bikers to start getting a deal again
These new Reserve wheels look awesome! I'm already running EX1700s so no need for me. Just hope these Reserves will make it to Santa Cruz complete bikes.
The markup / profit on modern MTB's is out of control . There's no way in hell that it costs $3,000 + to build any mountain bike frame unless its a 1 off 100% custom frame !! . Any Bike Frame that is mass produced that you pay that type of cash for is robbery . Carbon is Carbon and aluminum is aluminum as most mass produced frames are built quickly . For Example the Time bike frame company . The computer-controlled cage where resin injection happens 800g of resin is injected at a 6 bar pressure, while the three vacuum pumps draw out any air and pull the resin through the raw frame. This results in a totally even spread, and no air pockets or imperfections within. From start to finish, this process takes 20 minutes, with around 15 minutes of prep on each frame - it’s a remarkably swift timescale. However, the weaving, cutting, pre-mould prep and finishing means that, at full capacity, Time are only able to produce about 70 frames per week. That makes for a pretty exclusive product in these times of mass production.
Mid range Turbo Levo: $7500, get it on sale? Still 6k. Sur-ron X Light Bee: $4500 all day long Someone tell me how a full blown electric motorcycle costs that much less than an E peddle bike? 99.5% of every bike maker has their frames made in China, so really, this isn't as apples and oranges as it sounds. Its not like the shops are getting much of that money either. Something needs to change.
Last Black Friday I picked up a set of Reserve HD30 Carbon wheels with I9 1/1 hubs and love them. Pretty sweet they now offer alum for a fraction of the price
Giving a lifetime warranty isnt crazy at all especially when sales are down. There is no risk to it. If you think 10 years from now you can still claim that warranty, then u may think too naive. There is a few ways for a company to “void” those lifetime commitment. Depending which countries and law, there could be mergee, bought over etc. the investors probably still the same person. Its just the name changed. That can do it
Question, do you think the prices will come down on the bikes? Before Covid hit the prices were reasonable. Then during Covid it shot up. I'm looking at the giant talon 2 and would like to see the price drop at least $100. What's your thoughts?
bike shop labor/maintenance prices are still between $50 - $80 per hour. I went to the old BikeGallery (now TREKbike) and it is dead every time i walk in. I no longer have to book an appointment for maintenance or mechanic.
Enough with the negativity. Any industry that experiences such an upswing will eventually come back down and stabilize. Please stop bashing the bike industry and move on. Be positive. It's as if you want the industry to experience a downturn.
You’ve got the bit about discounting completely wrong. Large online retailers and chains get a better trade deal than smaller local shops. During shortages over the last two years, the bigger retailers had priority - they’ve overstocked and now they’re trying to slash inventory. In a lot of cases they’re selling at below trade prices - you can expect this to kill a lot of small local shops, while the big retailers protect their balance sheets. Margin on products is set by the Product owner themselves.
I've learned that if anyone comes at me with a corporate sales background or approach, it's time to walk away. I've been to a used car lot before I know what's really going on. I don't need bells and whistles, and Jerseys. I need the one product I go in to the shop for, no more and no less. If the price isn't right, I take flight. Simple as that.
where are these discounts? Every store around me sells only at MSRP. No discounts. No nothing. I even went up to a larger city and didn't find anything on sale or discounted anywhere.
I own 2 direct-to-consumer bikes and the last bike I bought was a Ripmo from my lbs that had always treated me well when I needed service on the other 2. I was really happy to support them with such a big purchase. I'm in the market now for a gravel bike and I really want to support the shop, but the price of everything has gone up and while I feel bad about it, I'm looking at direct-to-consumer again for that and likely any future bikes. I know the shop is struggling, but I can't sink my own boat to keep theirs afloat.
I'd hold off even on DtC right now. Those things flooded the market over the last couple years and now people who bought them wanting to try out cycling on something less expensive have gotten over the honeymoon phase and are now throwing them all up on 2nd hand marketplaces. There's Poseidons that have been sitting in a garage for a year going for $400-$500. Saw a base aluminum Diverge from 2021 (I think) going for $700. Looked to be mostly unused. I built up a 2nd hand Storchaser frame with parts I scrounged around for used but almost new (like, 105 calipers that were immediate take-offs because the owner wanted to upgrade to Dura Ace), and some new stuff on clearance prices. MSRP would have been about $3500. I think I'm out about $2200 give or take.
@cjohnson3836 yes, fair point. I have been checking the 2nd hand market as well. A lot of great deals out there. Either way, the near future doesn't look good for bike shops.
@@cjohnson3836 I agree. A lot of people bought bikes during covid and are now realizing they never ride. If the economy continues to trend south there will be even better deals to be had 2nd hand.
I was at a bike shop a couple of weeks ago in Eagle Idaho and they are discounting all new Pivot inventory 20% across the board. Mondraker discounted as well. I overheard the owner telling a customer they are going all electric next year.
I think that might be the way LBS will need to go. Either ebikes, or be in a high end location with a cycling culture where they can stick to upper tier bikes. I guess there's also that narrow overlap between high end and ebike, for the truly well-off retiring dentists. But not everyone can be in BC or Girona. Sticking to the fastest industry sector might not be a bad idea.
I agree that a "selling" skill is lacking in the LBS. Having a 20+ year of retail sales background there is no comparison when shopping for clothes vs bikes. They should be the same experience imho for LBS to be successful.
Anyone with some business acumen should have seen this coming from a mile away. Lbs we’re just simply focused on making the $$$, nothing wrong with that, but I am sure they had inventory on order during 2020-2022 that never got filled due to supply chain issue and now finally starting to get filled all at once and there is bo way they can move it now since things slowed way down.
Its not that simple. Bike shops are being forced by suppliers to purchase in volumes they can't really justify. And its not just the big 3. Salsa only distributes to shops that can pull the quotas they dictate. As a shop, you can't sell what you don't have. And you can't have it unless you order what the suppliers tell you to do. And by doing this the suppliers force competition between shops for distribution space. Then to make it worse, they directly compete with their own distributors now through online sales. If you went into a Specialized shop in the last couple years to see an empty floor, ask them why they couldn't get bikes from the warehouse (its because Specialized withheld them for online sales, even though you were in a shop asking to buy it).
One of the reasons I would never buy a Specialized at any price despite the fact pretty much all their bikes at every price point are miserably under specced compared to most competitors. 😀
As a bike shop employee I am getting screwed. Qbp has low stock but Amazon has everything. I'm paying retail for a lot of things I need. Wholesale on bikes hasn't changed but retail is heavily discounted. Why should I continue working in a shop? The average consumer is paying almost the same. The ep was the main reason for a lower wage but now not. Am I wrong?
Covid didn't screw the bike industry, the industry screwed themselves by greatly inflating prices since 2017 2018. They started to push expensive bikes and focus on the upper middle class. I do agree that the sport is in decline mostly due too crazy prices and shitty made components coupled with ever changing standards. Try finding 27.5 and 29er wheels with non boost spacing at any local bike shop. Or simple things like derailuer hangers from bikes older then 3 to 4 years. They have priced the regular rider out of the past time. Most individuals start riding mtb because they love the outdoors while getting exercise. Now most ditch the bikes and just go for a hike. Much cheaper and more accessible. This exact thing happened to the paintball industry.
Both! They doing nothing to attract new and young people to the sport by charging what they do for bicycles. Industry future is dead if they carry on charging motorbike prices for a stupid bicycle. (And i live for cycling).
Part of the problem lies in confusing bicycle riding with being solely a sport. Most bicycle riders (and customers) are not racers - they just want bicycles for exercise, recreation, and general transportation. The high demand for bicycles during the COVID lockdown wasn't from the "sport" side of bicycling, but from people looking for outdoor exercise during a time when gyms were closed and recreational outlets in general were scarce. The current downturn has little to do with the state of the sport of bicycle racing, but the decline of demand from recreational and fitness oriented riders. Of course, those are the same people who are most easily turned off by high prices.
I'm not being bias as I'm a 47 year old Gen-Xer but being an 80's kid and a teenager/ early 20's during the 90's I can assure you that the youth used to ride bikes a lot more back then . Gen-Z is lazy in general as I could see this as a reason for the decline in interest .
@@curtvaughan2836 One reason is Americans in general are lazy and not as ambitious as they once were . Being born in 1976 I can attest that bikes used to be ridden more back in the day as we didn't have endless streaming content to watch , video games or other internet activities to keep us occupied .
The bike manufacturers should absorb any discounts and not the bike shops. The manufacturers are the ones with too much inventory. The bike shops can’t throw in other things for free as they are not free to them
What are your thoughts on services/shop work? I would expect that will remain a higher margin portion for bike shops, but curious on your take regarding the trend of volume for wrenching bikes.
One of my local shops is having a deal where if you buy any Santa Cruz bike with NX on it, theyll replace everything to GX for FREE... lol idk how theyre staying open with a thing like that 😂
I think Ragley is updating for 2023 so they got to get rid of the 2022. it's been the same bikes but different color since 2019 but yeah still a great deal! better if you get it from wiggle
I got 2 maxxis dhf minions delivered from probikeit ( Spanish company ) for just under $40 each . That's with shipping and sales tax. Took a week from order to my door in socal . I was a bit nervous .
@@NONO-hz4vo Not sure why you would want to pick up parts from a bike shop unless maybe you need them today . Probably easier to deal with a warranty issues that you don't have to deal with the manufacturer. I went to a bike shop as I was struggling to get my first tubeless tire to seal . They did not have time so I went home and figured it out myself . Haven't been back since .
@steven cole Chances of a LBS even having the part you need is slim to none unless it is a chain or tires. Really the only time I bother is if I need a tube for a kids bike.
Well thanks for your opinion. But remember that entry level has been what is pushing the industry hard for the last Three years. So it would be stupid to not take it into account.
Do you see Trek jumping into clearance mode similar to Specialized with their stock? Been to a few Trek stores and they are packed with bikes, accessories and back stock.
Highly unlikely. Trek will hold bikes for long periods of time before they ever discount their bikes (I worked at a Trek store). Accessories on the other hand, usually go on sale frequently. Trek is such a big brand now, that they know people will still buy their bike regardless of other shops having sales.
No, it won't be on bikes. I worked directly for Trek as well. I can actually tell you that Trek regulated thier inventory levels much better than Specialized did. So Specialized will have sales. And they are still out of a lot of stuff online. Meanwhile, as Trek builds up inventory, its all about following the trends of orders. They sold 900 fuel EXes in large in the last month? Ok, build 910 this month. Specialized is just mass producing it and shipping it. Treks method will be slightly more expensive but will keep them afloat. Specialized, not as likely.
Well to be fair, the entire industry needs a shake up. Otherwise no one is going to cycle... Its pretty fcked up where we find ourselves paying more for bicycles than motorbikes. Gonna hurt many but probably long overdue. The next generation is NOT going to cycle when an entry level decent bicycle is $3000 now. No.... No.... No.....
"They are paying employees less..." That is a good way to lose your employees as inflation rises.
Often with small business during hard times the owner has already cut their own 'wages' and operational costs as low as they can and is faces the choice of lowering wages across the board or laying people off. That's not an easy choice and delivering the message sucks even worse. Especially when you know no matter what you say SOMEONE is going to be bitter and tell everyone how greedy you are. Big companies get away with just laying massive amounts of people off and those execs are not taking smaller bonuses or wages, haha!
actually it's a double hit . . . you lose your smart " talented " employees, retaining the not so!
@@bigslacker666 Sometimes laying off an employee is better for everyone else in the business. I think small shop owners struggle with this but 8 employees struggling with cut wages or hours is worse than laying off 2 and letting them collect EI while they look for other work.
All companies took advantage of the COVID and raised their prices to unbuyable. Now, you gotta face the consequences for being so greedy.
Was going to get into MTB until I saw the outrageous prices. I can see paying maximum $1500, maybe even $2000 for all the bells and whistles but anything after that makes no sense to me. Explain me to why a bike can cost up to $7000? That’s insane.
I've said this before and I'll say it here. If you value true rider owned brands and financially afford it then try to look past the huge discounts and support smaller rider owned companies. These large corporate or publicly traded companies will be just fine through these hard times. It's the little guys who are going to need the support from the cycling community.
TR is rider owned and they are taking the mickey with their pricing now. especially in NZ.
@@MrSupermugen TR isn’t a smaller company though. Tenet, Title, Banshee, Canfield, MRP…those are small brands
small corporate like us
Consider it being a patron of the arts.
course they'll be fine, they'll just fire people to save money.
The bike industry has gotten stupid… I pay just a little more for a good motorcycle than a good MTB. The margins must be insane. I’ve been rolling on my 2014 Stumpy with lowing level Fox stuff for years because it just hasn’t been worth it to upgrade….but now I’m looking around a bit. The funny thing is the cost of bikes and components got so high I started getting way more into dualsport riding. Even did big trips to the Rockies with a bunch of friends. Those used to be MTB trips. I think the bike industry lost many of us. Even if I start doing a bit more mountain biking, I will never be into it like I was before prices went crazy.
100% Agree! To add to what you are saying, there are also no demos available, some maybe this year. I dont know about most people, but if I am looking to upgrade and spend easily over 5k for a bike I want to demo it. Thats not completely the shops fault, but I am not going to buy anything that expensive without a small test ride.
Now I am lucky that I am just over 6ft. Probably by a 1/4inch, so I am always a large on bikes. My wife at 5ft 5 is royally screwed. By being in between sizes depending on the brand she needs to try two sizes.
Lastly about e bikes, sure shops can transition over. But just look at Harley to know what you future is when you go all in on older people. It'll work for a few years, but it will end poorly for the shops.
It's 2023 and bike infrastructure is still horrendous in most of north america.
I think a lot of people tried cycling during lockdowns but are realizing they dont want to risk their lives now that all the motorists are back on the roads and even more aggressive and/or careless than ever before.
It like every few weeks I see news of a cyclists getting killed by a car, and then after that more news as their ghost bikes are hit again and again by cars!!
I know I am extremely nervous riding anymore...😟
Not just that as these people weren't working making them bored so they though cycling would be a great idea , odds are most went on a dozen bike rides and now the bikes are sitting .
So where is all this heavily discounted excess inventory? I'm not seeing it.
My local bike shop was happy to put the screws to me…I’m happy to not use them if there is an alternative, which there is. I have used some awesome bike shops, but none local to me.
My lbs might close this year, they haven't payed themself for a couple of months now and one guy resorted in getting a second job, while also working on Suspensions by reservation.
I wish them the best, i've raced for 2 years with their team and i personally know the guys and consider them friends, i really try to buy everything i need from them but it's been rough and it ain't gonna be easy unfortunately
Lost Co has custom wheel builds with for $750. I went with Stans Flow MK4 and Spank Hex hubs (better than I9 1/1 IMO). Heck of a deal as far as I'm concerned. Love Lost Co!!!
They’re the best bike shop around, that’s for sure!
Thanks, Ben! Stoked to see this boxed up and head out for a road trip to your garage 😎
-Mike
Everybody keeps talking about this. Prices coming down, stores filled with inventory, bargains all over the place in pre-owned stuff. I live in Portugal and I see none of that. Prices are still on crazy highs as they have been for over two years. Is this a thing in the US only??
Higher end stuff has not come down, at least not much where I am. It's mostly on the low to mid entry level stuff that people buy and then realize they don't like riding as much as they thought or move on to the higher quality and priced bikes and components.
Shops dont make $ on bikes. The service/acc/parts/rag trade are the money makers. -U10
my local bike shop will pretty much match any realistic online price and will install that part for free. It helps also with warranty replacement if it comes down to it. i still buy some stuff online but the majority is still from my bike shop. they donate to the local trails too.
This is hopefully unrelated but I'll relay the story. I used to live in Mesquite, TX and bought my trail bike from a shop in Garland, TX Don Johle's Bike World. I don't live in TX anymore but I just heard that one of the shop employees was found shot dead in the shop and then Don, the owner, was found dead in his home just last week. I bought my bike from the guy and I send my deepest sympathies to the families involved.
Doesn't happen in Europe yet, prices are still high, even online !
I don't understand how the industry and business did not see this coming. what signs were there that it would ever be permanent in any realistic way?
These retail bike prices are 30% higher than were in 2018. It was just too much of a price increase too fast. His logic won’t work when the demand is low. I feel bad for these shops. Giving gear with a bike is not enough.
2023 bikes should be 15% off
2022 30% off
2024 models can’t be released until 2024. Back down to pre-Covid prices
And prices aren't going back to pre covid levels. They're still outrageously priced. They raked in the money over the last 3 years and are now whining about the entirely foreseeable.
I’m happy as a retro grouch septuagenarian to let young generation support the bike industry. I’m only interested in 1990s fully rigid American made aluminum bikes. CF outa my league. Bring back 26er v brakes threaded forks square taper BBs 7 speed cassettes!
It's funny that there is to much bikes now .. in early december we ordered a new bike for my wife from propain. Since she wanted something simple she went with the base config but it was a 2 month waitlist because of missing rockshox forks... Early january comes by and we got a call and the man on the phone of the Customer support of Propain(realy amazing guy btw) told us: hey listen we didnt get the forks for your bike and we cant complete the order as it is order. My wife was realy sad and expected to not get her bike. Then he said he rides himself and knows how that sucks so he upgraded all missing parts to the next available...
Long story short: My wifes bike costed 2799€ and got a Lyrik Ultimate, Delux Ultimate, and an X01 drivedrain für the same money. Cheers to Michel from the Propain support.
When bike parts cost just as much as car parts....yeah... That's gonna be a hard "NO".
Daily MTB back with an episode of BikEnomics
good points about setting customer expectations. I will ALWAYS negotiate now since I know they have so much wiggle room. I love my LBS's, and support them, but it's been a rough couple years on consumers too. Thanks for the good content and analysis.
Agree... If many only knew how much wiggle room was available from wholesale/cost to MSRP. Some of these "deals" are at cost right now or just under the break even line. I never pay MSRP and always negotiate, if they don't want to negotiate find a shop who will. There's plenty to go around and most will ship.
You guys are completely wrong. You arent factoring in the thousands of dollars in overhead. If I were to lower bikes to 100 dollars above my cost I wouldn't have been able to EVER make it. You fail to understand how bad these shops are doing. I will never negotiate with a local shop on a deal. Ever. Because I'm aware its a last resort.
@@travelthenarrowtrail8660 if you shopped like that in Portland Oregon you wouldn't ever have a bike from a shop in Portland Oregon. Let me do the math for you. When you factor in shipping, and all other overhead needed to have a bike built on a sales floor, a shop is lucky to make even a hundred bucks. I havent payed myself since covid. I have a second job. I am barely afloat. And have nearly closed my doors too many times. Ive nearly been convinced to just find another job and to drop my business. I used to do a lot in repairs but now that the prices of parts skyrocketed, and after the absence of parts during the last few years, I now have very little service work. So dont negotiate, because the ones who will, are about to fail. Just watch. You'll see. Signed, the Diehard Bikes team.
@@tygrewesterfield841 Are you running a charity or a bike shop? Bikes aren't hard to work on so there isn't a need for a skilled labor force to be paid. 90% of the time I can get parts to my house faster and cheaper than I can through the LBS so that isn't really useful either.
If you can't offer prices in line with the internet on bikes or parts service work is all you have to offer a normal customer. Most people are savvy enough to order online these days. Given the simplicity of the bike even service is within the realm of capability for most people, meaning you would have to offer quick service at reasonable prices.
The bike shops that do well have branched out past the retail model and offer a social experience to their customers, if you can't do this odds are online competition is going to take a lot of your profit.
IMHO, bike mfrs are in trouble because 99% of the population wants a bike that does it all. And mfrs are only selling over specialized bikes. The avg Joe wants generalized do-it-all bikes. And shops don't allow component selection. They force components on a customer that they don't want.
Big industry brands have been gouging the consumer for years. High end bikes are at or over what motorcycles are selling for... WhatTF.. There is no comparison in R&D, Production or Materials cost.... NONE. The cycling consumer is finally going to figure that out, if not now as soon as they try to sell that overpriced 2 year old bike for half or less than they paid for it. Big Poop storm coming for the bike industry. Peace
Bought a bike for my daughter during Covid. Shop wouldn’t even throw in a water bottle. Bike shops like this did it to themselves. The first and last time I buy from that bike shop.
Expecting free stuff makes you sound entitled.
I work for my money and i don't ask anyone for free money. I also pay for what i want, i never expect stuff for free.
Very entitled attitude. The shop doesn't get the accessories for free, so why should you? Because you bought something else? Imagine doing that at the grocery store.
It would be nice if they threw in a bottle, but expecting it shows an absurd sense of entitlement. Especially when, as noted in the video, bike shops are struggling.
@@chrisharding641 LOL. Seriously? 0.50 cents for a bottle that could be free marketing for the bike shop? How stupid is your argument?
Places capitalized on Covid, took loans and "free" government money. Now they whine. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming.
And let's be honest, bikes have been stupidly over priced for a long, got worse over the last 3 years, and are now coming down to prices that are still higher than 3 years go.
Johnny rocks sells like 4 bikes a year they are not a popular shop at all
Screw bike shops, all they do is rip people off. jack prices up way more than online warehouse prices... god forbid if you don't know how to work on your bike yourself youre wallet will be taken to the cleaners!! i didnt have a bottom bracket tool a while back and they charged me $60 just to unscrew 2 bearings!!
I don't go to bike shops due to the people working in there. Most family owned so many friends of the kids work thru the shops. Those people I find profile you once you walk in. You try to be respected but how they respond is always a rude vibe as you not really the type of biker they want to assist. Stopped by to get my rear tire changed only to tell the thank you and I be back , but you hear this : yeah, right remark as you leave.!?. I haven't been to bike shop in decades due to this ...
I have run my own independent workshop in the UK for past 9 years and last few months have been lean. Thankfully I’m by appointment only and so I’m working elsewhere doing other stuff 2 or 3 days of the week. This way I can go back to full time when things return to normal. How I miss normal 😂. 3 local cycle shops/workshops have closed in past year. I’m hoping my local shop survives as when things were normal we worked well together.
Lots of people leaving the industry because pay is not covering cost of living and inflation. Meanwhile lots of stores cannot get skilled staff or mechanics.
Too much obsolescence has killed many retailers. If I was a dealer, I would be looking at aged inventory every single day, and thinking of ways to get rid of it. Its literally dollar bills sitting on the shelf until you sell it. That's money you could be using to purchase stock you will actually sell. The older the item gets, the harder it will be to sell.
Gotta be careful with the lifetime warranty. Usually, Lifetime Warranty does not apply to the slow wear and tear that mountain bike components are subject to.
Depends on what the print says, some say no questions asked lifetime warranty. Some do not say that.
BTW I am speaking of aluminum rims. This is what Race Face answered me about a few months back.
Wel high end mtb bicycles where approaching ktm motorcycle prices and thats not going fly in the coming recession.
those santa cruz AL wheels are a solid entry level deal. 350 hub is excellent and uses the bigger easy to find bearings. rims are heavy but if they are anything like the ex511 which is a similar weight. those things hold up to factory riders doing enduro events. if someone doesn't mind tank wheels or a bigger person that's a great value. as for shops. they can discount or burn. they make a killing on each bike. we all know a 5k bike costs them about 2900 and the greed level is so excessive they can't imagine literally handing someone a box and only making 1k on it. if they don't, others will.
Helmets got to be $200+, when equally as good ones were $125 a few years ago. That probably has a lot to do with drop in sales combined with all the newbies who jumped in during 2020 amd then dropped out. Most of them were cheaper buyers on top of that.
Life time warranty on wheels is more bullshit marketing when new wheel standereds will make these non existent in the next 4 to 5 years. Just like it's hard to find a wheel with width hub standards from the mid 2010s.
At least 350’s are pretty easy to convert to new standards. Especially compared to most hub brands.
YT has 25% off everything right now some crazy deals!
holy mother of god!! I'm looking it over now and drooling.
Just the bikes in stock
@@simonbttnr But still. I bought the Capra Core 2 about a year ago at $3400. Now look at the price! Siiiigh
Good thing I paid $800 more 2 months ago, dodged that savings. 🙄
@@HindsightFPV LOL LOL
not seeing any rebate what so ever on the canadian website
Well, I went to a bike shop in Denver, and they would not discount the price. Infact, they charge more than Utah trikes for the same bike.
Stoked on those rims! Also stoked to not pay $100 for a chain 😂
Check out canyons latest sales. They are pretty steep. 😃 great components on carbon bikes like the neuron 8 for $2399. This is exciting for us long time bikers to start getting a deal again
Where is the best place to get a used 2022 Speialize Status? No shame in being poor.
These new Reserve wheels look awesome! I'm already running EX1700s so no need for me. Just hope these Reserves will make it to Santa Cruz complete bikes.
The markup / profit on modern MTB's is out of control . There's no way in hell that it costs $3,000 + to build any mountain bike frame unless its a 1 off 100% custom frame !! . Any Bike Frame that is mass produced that you pay that type of cash for is robbery . Carbon is Carbon and aluminum is aluminum as most mass produced frames are built quickly .
For Example the Time bike frame company .
The computer-controlled cage where resin injection happens
800g of resin is injected at a 6 bar pressure, while the three vacuum pumps draw out any air and pull the resin through the raw frame. This results in a totally even spread, and no air pockets or imperfections within. From start to finish, this process takes 20 minutes, with around 15 minutes of prep on each frame - it’s a remarkably swift timescale.
However, the weaving, cutting, pre-mould prep and finishing means that, at full capacity, Time are only able to produce about 70 frames per week. That makes for a pretty exclusive product in these times of mass production.
Mike's bikes paying employees less....but purchasing a large chain of stores in Denver? Interesting
Mid range Turbo Levo: $7500, get it on sale? Still 6k.
Sur-ron X Light Bee: $4500 all day long
Someone tell me how a full blown electric motorcycle costs that much less than an E peddle bike? 99.5% of every bike maker has their frames made in China, so really, this isn't as apples and oranges as it sounds. Its not like the shops are getting much of that money either. Something needs to change.
Pedal bikes are special I guess . This is why I ride vintage MTB's .
Last Black Friday I picked up a set of Reserve HD30 Carbon wheels with I9 1/1 hubs and love them. Pretty sweet they now offer alum for a fraction of the price
Used to work for one of the more prominent light companies…let’s just say most of these businesses aren’t run by the most business-savvy people.
Giving a lifetime warranty isnt crazy at all especially when sales are down. There is no risk to it. If you think 10 years from now you can still claim that warranty, then u may think too naive. There is a few ways for a company to “void” those lifetime commitment. Depending which countries and law, there could be mergee, bought over etc. the investors probably still the same person. Its just the name changed. That can do it
Question, do you think the prices will come down on the bikes? Before Covid hit the prices were reasonable. Then during Covid it shot up. I'm looking at the giant talon 2 and would like to see the price drop at least $100. What's your thoughts?
bike shop labor/maintenance prices are still between $50 - $80 per hour. I went to the old BikeGallery (now TREKbike) and it is dead every time i walk in. I no longer have to book an appointment for maintenance or mechanic.
Enough with the negativity. Any industry that experiences such an upswing will eventually come back down and stabilize. Please stop bashing the bike industry and move on. Be positive. It's as if you want the industry to experience a downturn.
You’ve got the bit about discounting completely wrong.
Large online retailers and chains get a better trade deal than smaller local shops.
During shortages over the last two years, the bigger retailers had priority - they’ve overstocked and now they’re trying to slash inventory.
In a lot of cases they’re selling at below trade prices - you can expect this to kill a lot of small local shops, while the big retailers protect their balance sheets.
Margin on products is set by the Product owner themselves.
I've learned that if anyone comes at me with a corporate sales background or approach, it's time to walk away. I've been to a used car lot before I know what's really going on. I don't need bells and whistles, and Jerseys. I need the one product I go in to the shop for, no more and no less. If the price isn't right, I take flight. Simple as that.
where are these discounts? Every store around me sells only at MSRP. No discounts. No nothing. I even went up to a larger city and didn't find anything on sale or discounted anywhere.
I own 2 direct-to-consumer bikes and the last bike I bought was a Ripmo from my lbs that had always treated me well when I needed service on the other 2. I was really happy to support them with such a big purchase. I'm in the market now for a gravel bike and I really want to support the shop, but the price of everything has gone up and while I feel bad about it, I'm looking at direct-to-consumer again for that and likely any future bikes. I know the shop is struggling, but I can't sink my own boat to keep theirs afloat.
I'd hold off even on DtC right now. Those things flooded the market over the last couple years and now people who bought them wanting to try out cycling on something less expensive have gotten over the honeymoon phase and are now throwing them all up on 2nd hand marketplaces. There's Poseidons that have been sitting in a garage for a year going for $400-$500. Saw a base aluminum Diverge from 2021 (I think) going for $700. Looked to be mostly unused. I built up a 2nd hand Storchaser frame with parts I scrounged around for used but almost new (like, 105 calipers that were immediate take-offs because the owner wanted to upgrade to Dura Ace), and some new stuff on clearance prices. MSRP would have been about $3500. I think I'm out about $2200 give or take.
@cjohnson3836 yes, fair point. I have been checking the 2nd hand market as well. A lot of great deals out there. Either way, the near future doesn't look good for bike shops.
@@cjohnson3836 I agree. A lot of people bought bikes during covid and are now realizing they never ride. If the economy continues to trend south there will be even better deals to be had 2nd hand.
I was at a bike shop a couple of weeks ago in Eagle Idaho and they are discounting all new Pivot inventory 20% across the board. Mondraker discounted as well. I overheard the owner telling a customer they are going all electric next year.
I think that might be the way LBS will need to go. Either ebikes, or be in a high end location with a cycling culture where they can stick to upper tier bikes. I guess there's also that narrow overlap between high end and ebike, for the truly well-off retiring dentists. But not everyone can be in BC or Girona. Sticking to the fastest industry sector might not be a bad idea.
thanks to Greg's Greenlake cycles i buy everything online. it takes longer to get your stuff but there are no pricks
EVERYONE BOUGHT NEW STUFF 1- 2 YEARS AGO..SO IT WILL TAKE TIME FOR THEM TO DESTROY THEM
Whats your thoughts if the federal tax credit for e-bikes get approved?
Paying employees less is a great way to lose employees
I agree that a "selling" skill is lacking in the LBS. Having a 20+ year of retail sales background there is no comparison when shopping for clothes vs bikes. They should be the same experience imho for LBS to be successful.
Anyone with some business acumen should have seen this coming from a mile away. Lbs we’re just simply focused on making the $$$, nothing wrong with that, but I am sure they had inventory on order during 2020-2022 that never got filled due to supply chain issue and now finally starting to get filled all at once and there is bo way they can move it now since things slowed way down.
Its not that simple. Bike shops are being forced by suppliers to purchase in volumes they can't really justify. And its not just the big 3. Salsa only distributes to shops that can pull the quotas they dictate. As a shop, you can't sell what you don't have. And you can't have it unless you order what the suppliers tell you to do. And by doing this the suppliers force competition between shops for distribution space. Then to make it worse, they directly compete with their own distributors now through online sales. If you went into a Specialized shop in the last couple years to see an empty floor, ask them why they couldn't get bikes from the warehouse (its because Specialized withheld them for online sales, even though you were in a shop asking to buy it).
One of the reasons I would never buy a Specialized at any price despite the fact pretty much all their bikes at every price point are miserably under specced compared to most competitors. 😀
@@ivanboesky1520 components are consumables. Buy a bike for the frameset. Everything else will eventually be replaced
Patiently waiting for an AllCity sale 🙏🏽
As a bike shop employee I am getting screwed. Qbp has low stock but Amazon has everything. I'm paying retail for a lot of things I need. Wholesale on bikes hasn't changed but retail is heavily discounted. Why should I continue working in a shop? The average consumer is paying almost the same. The ep was the main reason for a lower wage but now not. Am I wrong?
Is the bike market correcting itself after covid or is the sport in general actually in decline?
Covid didn't screw the bike industry, the industry screwed themselves by greatly inflating prices since 2017 2018. They started to push expensive bikes and focus on the upper middle class.
I do agree that the sport is in decline mostly due too crazy prices and shitty made components coupled with ever changing standards. Try finding 27.5 and 29er wheels with non boost spacing at any local bike shop. Or simple things like derailuer hangers from bikes older then 3 to 4 years.
They have priced the regular rider out of the past time. Most individuals start riding mtb because they love the outdoors while getting exercise. Now most ditch the bikes and just go for a hike. Much cheaper and more accessible.
This exact thing happened to the paintball industry.
Both! They doing nothing to attract new and young people to the sport by charging what they do for bicycles. Industry future is dead if they carry on charging motorbike prices for a stupid bicycle. (And i live for cycling).
Part of the problem lies in confusing bicycle riding with being solely a sport. Most bicycle riders (and customers) are not racers - they just want bicycles for exercise, recreation, and general transportation. The high demand for bicycles during the COVID lockdown wasn't from the "sport" side of bicycling, but from people looking for outdoor exercise during a time when gyms were closed and recreational outlets in general were scarce. The current downturn has little to do with the state of the sport of bicycle racing, but the decline of demand from recreational and fitness oriented riders. Of course, those are the same people who are most easily turned off by high prices.
I'm not being bias as I'm a 47 year old Gen-Xer but being an 80's kid and a teenager/ early 20's during the 90's I can assure you that the youth used to ride bikes a lot more back then . Gen-Z is lazy in general as I could see this as a reason for the decline in interest .
@@curtvaughan2836 One reason is Americans in general are lazy and not as ambitious as they once were . Being born in 1976 I can attest that bikes used to be ridden more back in the day as we didn't have endless streaming content to watch , video games or other internet activities to keep us occupied .
First
What do you think a warranty means? Everyone has their own policies. Touting a lifetime warranty really means less than nothing.
The bike manufacturers should absorb any discounts and not the bike shops. The manufacturers are the ones with too much inventory. The bike shops can’t throw in other things for free as they are not free to them
You can always go buy a new TRANSITION frame for $3600, this is a steal !!
Can you make a video about Shimano Cues. Sounds like it's going to revolutionize entry level mountain bikes
I had to give a shop some guff when they tried to bundle a high margin consumable. I don't mind paying full retail for 8sp kit on my commuter :-).
What a fool 700 with life time 😂
i saved £500 on a trek roscoe. this video explained alot about why the bikes are so cheap
What are your thoughts on services/shop work? I would expect that will remain a higher margin portion for bike shops, but curious on your take regarding the trend of volume for wrenching bikes.
Great idea to take away money from employees when expenses are at a all time high 🤦🏻♂️ America needs help
Well, cannondale topstones are still months off here in canada, still waiting for mine.
If I see a bike with $700 wheels, I'll be sure to get some 🤣
make report about the bike awful state of bike infrastructure in cities
From what I heard the specialized sale is going to be ending early March
One of my local shops is having a deal where if you buy any Santa Cruz bike with NX on it, theyll replace everything to GX for FREE... lol idk how theyre staying open with a thing like that 😂
They need cash flow at this point.
Wow!! You guys are amazing! I'm going to just watch yall do it!!
Get to the story
100,000 square meters is about 1,000,000 square feet. SRAM must be killing it!!
Maths and stuff, bro.
Look at the Ragley’s at chain reaction. Huge deal!
I think Ragley is updating for 2023 so they got to get rid of the 2022. it's been the same bikes but different color since 2019 but yeah still a great deal! better if you get it from wiggle
@@keosoutdooradventures never hear of Wiggle before. Is it the American version of Chain Reaction or something?
@machyne82 wiggle owns chain reaction but charge a lot less for shipping to the US
I’m excited to get a good deal on a intense tracer! Thank you for the content.
100 000 m2 = 1076391 square feet
I like the shed background
What do bicycle helmets protect against? Diving head on into a tree?
Bike shops are becoming greedy and don’t really have products you want
YT 25% off store wide!!! 😍
I got 2 maxxis dhf minions delivered from probikeit ( Spanish company ) for just under $40 each . That's with shipping and sales tax. Took a week from order to my door in socal . I was a bit nervous .
Hard to justify paying in shop prices when deals like that are around.
@@NONO-hz4vo Not sure why you would want to pick up parts from a bike shop unless maybe you need them today . Probably easier to deal with a warranty issues that you don't have to deal with the manufacturer. I went to a bike shop as I was struggling to get my first tubeless tire to seal . They did not have time so I went home and figured it out myself . Haven't been back since .
@steven cole Chances of a LBS even having the part you need is slim to none unless it is a chain or tires. Really the only time I bother is if I need a tube for a kids bike.
Thank you Josh!
I find it interesting you have not mentioned marin doing a buy one get one sale. Don't like marin?? What's up?
well to be fair, the buy one get one sale is on their junk bikes that nobody wants anyhow.... thus why they're giving them away lol
@@larryflynn1850 You're right lol. But, I would give the LBS a pass over huge entities like Marin.
As mtbr of socal said - those are super entry level bikes (or bread and butter) - not bikes for enthusiasts
Well thanks for your opinion. But remember that entry level has been what is pushing the industry hard for the last Three years. So it would be stupid to not take it into account.
Do you see Trek jumping into clearance mode similar to Specialized with their stock? Been to a few Trek stores and they are packed with bikes, accessories and back stock.
Highly unlikely. Trek will hold bikes for long periods of time before they ever discount their bikes (I worked at a Trek store). Accessories on the other hand, usually go on sale frequently. Trek is such a big brand now, that they know people will still buy their bike regardless of other shops having sales.
@@MTB_CRZY Got an email this weekend about a big sale starting March 1st.
@@AndrewSmyk yep, most likely wont be on bikes though. Who knows!
No, it won't be on bikes. I worked directly for Trek as well. I can actually tell you that Trek regulated thier inventory levels much better than Specialized did. So Specialized will have sales. And they are still out of a lot of stuff online. Meanwhile, as Trek builds up inventory, its all about following the trends of orders. They sold 900 fuel EXes in large in the last month? Ok, build 910 this month. Specialized is just mass producing it and shipping it. Treks method will be slightly more expensive but will keep them afloat. Specialized, not as likely.
@@tygrewesterfield841 Thanks for the insight.
In the UK I just got a Trek EX 5 for £2000, really good deals out there if you look around.
Thats like $200 off our normal prices here. Not a huge saving imo, but still a welcome one!
@@MTB_CRZY They are retailing for £2500 here, plus I got it on a cycle scheme here in the UK and only costs me £1350.... Government pay the rest!
An 8 minute video with a solid minute add embedded
Mountain bikers are so gullible.