Brennan Lee Mulligan said something similar - he considers himself the good cop, and the dice are the bad cop. Once the battle begins, he basically says, “Listen, I did everything I could to help. Now it’s up to the dice.” Because you are still playing a game with your friends.
I use the phrase, "Your character would know..." quite often. I hadn't really thought it through like you explain it. I just figured it was a good way to bridge the communication challenges that are inevitable in a fast paced game.
Clarifying intent is such great advice, I find myself using it at the other side of the table. When I get a chance to play, I'll catch myself starting to ask the DM a series of questions about the environment or whatnot. Instead of rambling on, I just tell them what I'd like to accomplish. Nine times out of ten, the DM will immediately snaps back with an appropriate roll, or else we all think up some new course of action that's actually possible. Clarifying intent definitely saves everyone a lot of time and back-and-forth frustration.
I don't make a secret of it. I cheer for them when the dice go their way, I mourn with them when the dice fail them. The monsters, on the other hand, are definitely not on their side and I play them ruthlessly.
One of the DMs I played for did the exact opposite. He was a super stickler for what the party declared or not, so if we forgot to declare something which he deemed important, then he would gleefully punish us for it. Emphasis on "gleefully." ("You didn't list a tent among the supplies you are gathering before venturing out, so you must rest out in the open and roll CON save every night to not suffer exhaustion from the cold. You can push forward like this, or you can go back to the town to get the tent. But if you go back, you won't make it to the evil lair in time to stop the ritual.") That experience is really allowing me to take your lesson to the heart. :D
@@SonOfSofaman was it just randomly cold for that? Also, cold alone can be solve by using a bunch of layers to cover your body. And is snow is a problem having a shovel to dig helps a lot to protect from the cold. Sorry, got distracted by the behavior of your DM, because some of that smelled like bullshit. Sure, some solutions are subpar to a tent, but they all help avoid the cold. Well, at least it did some good, I guess? Allowing you to better understand the topic.
This is one of THE best D&D videos I’ve ever watched. It also spills over into the meta gaming issue. Sometimes my argument for meta gaming is that the characters know more than the players. And sometimes that’s ok. ! Or even talking during a battle. Or talking a bit out of turn.
Yep first thought I had after having already ran ToA. Hard to be on the players side when one gets in a coffin and the other pushes the big red shiny button of death.
Run it as is with everyone knowing and understanding what they're in for. Could be fun! You could do it as a groundhog day situation, but with a time limit, and see how far you get.
As an OG (Original Grognard) and DM since 1979, I must tell you well done. I have always run my game as a conduit between the players the the world situation. It is us against the situation, not them against me. The ultimate goal is for the players to have fun. If they don't have fun long enough, you won't have any players.
I try to DM with this in mind, some wise advice I heard: "The more dangerous something is, the more obvious it should be." That way, players can make relatively informed decisions.
We had a large conversation about this recently. The thing we came too was nudge things towards fun & interesting but have consequences for some actions
I always have looked at it like this. I'm a facilitator to my friends. I facilitate the best game I can possibly give them however that may be. I am crafting the story but I'm crafting the story with them in mind. They are not spectators to my grand story that they can be privileged to be a part of. I'm facilitating a backdrop and a stage for my players to shine.
Not about this video in particular, Just wanted to say thanks for all your content, I've watched your full Saltmarsh series and incorporated a ton of your ideas and it's always added value. I finally decided to buy your material on sale today, keep rollin!
So much of what you are describing, I think, can be addressed by thinking of it in terms of resolution. The players have the worst resolution of what is happening, they only know what is happening from the DM. The DM has (almost) perfect resolution and it's the DMs job to act as a lens to bridge that resolution gap as much as possible and bring a situation into better focus for the players. I wonder if some DM's fixation with "meta gaming bad!" contributes to poor DM-ing in this regard?
Lord. Friggin thank you. THIS is what makes me so hesitant to play with anyone I don't avidly trust as a DM. For some reason there is this obsession with things like horrible plot twists and TPKs and it makes me nuts. A fun game and a good story (both things players look for) do not end in worthless TPKs. They just don't. Fighting against your players and trying to smash them at every chance is just bad DM etiquette.
Great ideas, and as much as I completely agree with everything said, at least in spirit, I think this topic needs a qualifier that for many players the danger and risk of death are necessary for their continued enjoyment. I have seen players frown when they think their PCs are getting a pass on something. It ruins the verisimilitude for them, and they start to feel like their actions don't have consequences, and they're just going through the motions. When things get precarious, I know I will often sacrifice NPCs first at the altar of consequences, but eventually a PC might have to go. Part of the challenge in D&D is that most of the time, a bad decision just means greater danger, which means overcoming greater obstacles. It's hard to penalize PCs. When the situation and luck of the dice warrant it, and all fair warnings of what PCs would/should know have been considered, an occasional death may be for the greater good of the game, even if it means they get brought back later and our just behind in experience.
Agreed. I just ran a session zero a few weeks ago, and made it very clear that PCs can die in my games (but that I barrack for the party). I make all my combat rolls in the open (I think it's great if players can see the bonuses the monsters have -in game terms, their characters would understand which are more powerful). It sparked of a light-hearted war stories moment in the discussion which was fun.
Have you even watched critical role? He constantly tries to help his players succeed. He wants nothing more than for them to have fun. He does challenge them and he will adhere to a rule but he doesn't actively try to kill his players or work against them.
I think a mistake I've seen is the DM just asking a player "are you sure?" Because from the player's perspective they just said they wanted to do a cool, badass thing, so of course they are going to say yes! Instead, ask "are you sure" without saying "are you sure." Clarify where the obvious source of danger is and what the obvious consequences would be.
Brennan Lee Mulligan said something similar - he considers himself the good cop, and the dice are the bad cop. Once the battle begins, he basically says, “Listen, I did everything I could to help. Now it’s up to the dice.” Because you are still playing a game with your friends.
I use the phrase, "Your character would know..." quite often. I hadn't really thought it through like you explain it. I just figured it was a good way to bridge the communication challenges that are inevitable in a fast paced game.
Clarifying intent is such great advice, I find myself using it at the other side of the table. When I get a chance to play, I'll catch myself starting to ask the DM a series of questions about the environment or whatnot. Instead of rambling on, I just tell them what I'd like to accomplish. Nine times out of ten, the DM will immediately snaps back with an appropriate roll, or else we all think up some new course of action that's actually possible. Clarifying intent definitely saves everyone a lot of time and back-and-forth frustration.
Yup. We are always supposed to secretly be on their side. :)
I don't make a secret of it. I cheer for them when the dice go their way, I mourn with them when the dice fail them. The monsters, on the other hand, are definitely not on their side and I play them ruthlessly.
"The dice are the enemies. I can relate to that statement lol!
One of the DMs I played for did the exact opposite. He was a super stickler for what the party declared or not, so if we forgot to declare something which he deemed important, then he would gleefully punish us for it. Emphasis on "gleefully." ("You didn't list a tent among the supplies you are gathering before venturing out, so you must rest out in the open and roll CON save every night to not suffer exhaustion from the cold. You can push forward like this, or you can go back to the town to get the tent. But if you go back, you won't make it to the evil lair in time to stop the ritual.")
That experience is really allowing me to take your lesson to the heart. :D
I'm not sure I would have taken away something positive from that experience, as you have. :)
@@SonOfSofaman was it just randomly cold for that? Also, cold alone can be solve by using a bunch of layers to cover your body. And is snow is a problem having a shovel to dig helps a lot to protect from the cold.
Sorry, got distracted by the behavior of your DM, because some of that smelled like bullshit. Sure, some solutions are subpar to a tent, but they all help avoid the cold.
Well, at least it did some good, I guess? Allowing you to better understand the topic.
This is one of THE best D&D videos I’ve ever watched. It also spills over into the meta gaming issue. Sometimes my argument for meta gaming is that the characters know more than the players. And sometimes that’s ok. ! Or even talking during a battle. Or talking a bit out of turn.
Omg! I was telling my sister this yesterday: the DM is not the enemy, the dice are.
I feel validated :)
Me running Tomb of Horrors: *like that's ever gonna happen.*
Yep first thought I had after having already ran ToA. Hard to be on the players side when one gets in a coffin and the other pushes the big red shiny button of death.
Thats what's make it the most popular terrible adventure =)
Run it as is with everyone knowing and understanding what they're in for. Could be fun! You could do it as a groundhog day situation, but with a time limit, and see how far you get.
Good advice for playing with new and beginner players.
So very helpful, as I have often forgotten the fact that I am not my players enemy.
I agree you should not be out to get the characters or try to kill them all. You should root for the players
Excellent advice!!
As an OG (Original Grognard) and DM since 1979, I must tell you well done. I have always run my game as a conduit between the players the the world situation. It is us against the situation, not them against me. The ultimate goal is for the players to have fun. If they don't have fun long enough, you won't have any players.
As someone who likes to DM and also host craps nights with the same group of friends, that comparison sparks joy ❤️
Great to know I’ve been doing things well now and again in this regard!! Good confirmation
What a great video. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I try to DM with this in mind, some wise advice I heard: "The more dangerous something is, the more obvious it should be." That way, players can make relatively informed decisions.
Yes!
We had a large conversation about this recently. The thing we came too was nudge things towards fun & interesting but have consequences for some actions
Absolutely stellar advice. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. Going to keep a lot of these ideas in mind moving forward.
Glad it was helpful!
I agree 100 present with you Sly, thanks for the reminder
That's how I try to look at it. I want the players to win, although the dice will sometimes disagree.
I always have looked at it like this. I'm a facilitator to my friends. I facilitate the best game I can possibly give them however that may be. I am crafting the story but I'm crafting the story with them in mind. They are not spectators to my grand story that they can be privileged to be a part of. I'm facilitating a backdrop and a stage for my players to shine.
Amazing advice! 👏
I love your books, thx for all the info. Your videos are also great and have terrific presentation, keep them coming!
Thanks so much!
Not about this video in particular, Just wanted to say thanks for all your content, I've watched your full Saltmarsh series and incorporated a ton of your ideas and it's always added value. I finally decided to buy your material on sale today, keep rollin!
Glad you like them!
Great video!
Great advices as usual!
Thanks for watching!
I agree.
So much of what you are describing, I think, can be addressed by thinking of it in terms of resolution. The players have the worst resolution of what is happening, they only know what is happening from the DM. The DM has (almost) perfect resolution and it's the DMs job to act as a lens to bridge that resolution gap as much as possible and bring a situation into better focus for the players.
I wonder if some DM's fixation with "meta gaming bad!" contributes to poor DM-ing in this regard?
this is one of your best! really appreciate it.
Wow! Thank you so much!
This is great
Lord. Friggin thank you. THIS is what makes me so hesitant to play with anyone I don't avidly trust as a DM. For some reason there is this obsession with things like horrible plot twists and TPKs and it makes me nuts. A fun game and a good story (both things players look for) do not end in worthless TPKs. They just don't. Fighting against your players and trying to smash them at every chance is just bad DM etiquette.
Great ideas, and as much as I completely agree with everything said, at least in spirit, I think this topic needs a qualifier that for many players the danger and risk of death are necessary for their continued enjoyment. I have seen players frown when they think their PCs are getting a pass on something. It ruins the verisimilitude for them, and they start to feel like their actions don't have consequences, and they're just going through the motions. When things get precarious, I know I will often sacrifice NPCs first at the altar of consequences, but eventually a PC might have to go. Part of the challenge in D&D is that most of the time, a bad decision just means greater danger, which means overcoming greater obstacles. It's hard to penalize PCs. When the situation and luck of the dice warrant it, and all fair warnings of what PCs would/should know have been considered, an occasional death may be for the greater good of the game, even if it means they get brought back later and our just behind in experience.
Agreed. I just ran a session zero a few weeks ago, and made it very clear that PCs can die in my games (but that I barrack for the party). I make all my combat rolls in the open (I think it's great if players can see the bonuses the monsters have -in game terms, their characters would understand which are more powerful). It sparked of a light-hearted war stories moment in the discussion which was fun.
Though posted 5 days aga I just got my notification. So much for hitting that bell icon.. 🤦♂️
Weird!
Take my comment-based engagement.
I need to show this video to a DM I know... so many "gotchas" and that annoying competitor's attitude
Intersting that the note reads "Mike's ZETTELKASTEN ..." are you by any chance fluid in the german language?
I've never liked or supported the idea of opportunity attacks. I let the players run away, and I'm not opposed to the monsters running away.
Matt Mercer could learn from some of these
Have you even watched critical role? He constantly tries to help his players succeed. He wants nothing more than for them to have fun. He does challenge them and he will adhere to a rule but he doesn't actively try to kill his players or work against them.
Seen two GMs in one group... Not do this... They're against and trying to limit the players often.
I think a mistake I've seen is the DM just asking a player "are you sure?" Because from the player's perspective they just said they wanted to do a cool, badass thing, so of course they are going to say yes! Instead, ask "are you sure" without saying "are you sure." Clarify where the obvious source of danger is and what the obvious consequences would be.
Awesome video!