Shinta Reviews: Code Geass Part 1: Origins
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Our Final (regular) Season debuts with an Evisceration that is long overdue; as we begin a look at the Origins of Code Geass, what series and creators influenced it, and where their minds and talents may have been that led to the eventual narrative collapse of the series; as well as ending up reviewing a dozen other shows along the way.
TL;DR: Damn It Goro Taniguchi and Sunrise.
More on that in the next three videos.
The Goro Taniguchi interview: fullfrontal.moe/goro-taniguch...
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0:00 For those who haven't seen.
20:31 The Problem of over-relying on Paratext
30:00 Of Goro Taniguchi and rebel children
42:39 Ichiro Okouchi's Works are not Self-Contained.
54:32 Where G-Witch Stumbled
1:08:46 Do the Monkey!
1:17:53 What does Masami Obari have to do with this?
1:23:22 Jun Fukuyama's Rise to Stardom
1:25:36 Ami Koshimizu, voicer of Waifu's.
1:27:38 Takehiro Sakurai, Ow of the Edge.
1:30:43 But what about the English Cast
1:41:07 Code Geass is good only up to a point, which may differ per person
1:45:27 What May have Inspired the series
1:51:47 A Rider Kick to the Sky takes off Towards a Dream
1:56:53 The Path of Heaven Rules over all.
2:06:19 Goro Taniguchi may have majorly misinterpreted his influences. - Розваги
I’m surprised this video isn’t sponsored by Pizza Hut.
2 hours 17 minutes and 28 seconds.....And this is just part one to lay the foundation......DEAR AURA MAN THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD!
I appreciate the effort that you've put into this video. However, I strongly disagree with your interpretation of Taniguchi's interview, because you're taking it out of context, rather than trying to understand his point. No, he didn't say the Black Knights in Code Geass are identical to Shocker in every way, much less in ideology. Rather, he's making a comparison to explain a visible pattern: how the so-called "hero" (Suzaku) regularly shows up to ruin the plans of the masked "villain" organization (Zero and the Black Knights). Contextually, Suzaku is indeed serving an imperial power (despite wearing white clothes and preaching about the right methods), while Zero is fighting for freedom (even if he does use questionable, selfish means in the process). If anything, I'm afraid that in your zeal to bash Taniguchi by twisting his words, you've revealed that your subjectivity is far from flawless.
To be fair that can be a recurring issue in Shinta's works and not only his zeal but a tendency to dismiss the merits others see in a work he dislikes. Eg I can agree with most his criticisms of Shirakura. However whenever Shirakura produces something that's successful and people actually like, he will either refuse to acknowledge it or claim that people like it for the wrong reasons. Which is a case of his own subjectivity and him not always approaching a work in good faith.
Yes, I'd say that there's no point for blaming Taniguchi specifically for character design and animation designs made largely by Takahiro Kimura (RIP). Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Kimura's designs, but when you know his professional background as an animator and designer for eroge, it's completely natural that there will be fanservice involved. I'd also argue that Taniguchi has plenty of series with low amounts of fanservice too, even late into his career (for example, Maria the Virgin Witch, surprisingly enough, and even Back Arrow).
1:28:35 Not sure if you were going to get into this in a future part but here's where we get the Mega Man X part of the characterization of Suzaku. Both characters display an overt sense of Naiveté. X through his pacifist nature and Suzaku through his martyr complex. But where as X still fights against Sigma and his Mavericks because he knows that innocent people would suffer otherwise due to his inaction (to go on a Gundam Wing tangent Relena Peacecraft and the Sanc Kingdom were complete morons for thinking that "doing nothing" is an appropriate response to the aggressive actions of OZ and the Romefeller Foundation. Treize and Zechs were there real heroes of Gundam Wing, change my mind.) Suzaku refuses to look past his need for self validation to see that he was a moron for being a Britannia Bootlicker and an Uncle Tom.
Actually Suzaku seems to have more in common with Copy X from the Zero series. Before X was discovered by Dr Cain he underwent 30 years of AI testing while he was in Dr Light's capsule. From this X's conscience was shown to be safe because he displayed the proper moral and ethical reasoning that he wouldn't misuse his power. Copy X however was rushed out the door by Ciel so that Neo Arcadia could keep up the facade that the real X was running the show. But because he didn't go through 30 years of good boy training Copy X's naiveté lead him to believe that everything he did was right no matter how horrid his actions were. When the energy crisis hit, he started labeling any Reploid as Mavericks and scrapping them to save on energy cost and any Reploids that weren't designed to serve in Neo Arcadia's military were relegated as a slave class for his empire. Copy X is basically Suzaku from R2 onwards until the final act.
Seeing that brings up a question. If Copy X is a perfect replica in ever way except mind and soul, doesn’t it make more sense for him to be the seal of the Dark Elf?
That way the original X can come back and fix everything his copy messed up.
@skyrogue1977 well copy X was built after the orginal x sealed himself away as he was tired of the fighting and was afraid of what he cpuld potentially become.
Because he said himself, he had begun to stop caring altogether, as he had been active for around 100 plus years by that point.
Plus he was split into five cyber elves upon sealing himself away
Himself and the four Guardian (,Basically his kids)
Plus he wouldn't want to release the dark elf anyway
Oh I have been waiting for this for a long time. Let's go!
At least for me, the ending of Code Geass R2 makes enough internal sense without any of the extra material. I still think this even after three full rewatches, but I get the feeling you didn't really care for it. Admittedly, the series stumbled along the extended middle of R2 and it is the weaker half. Some people hate that whole season due to pacing issues and other flaws, yet I think the last arc recovered in time to conclude properly and it connected a bunch of loose ends about as well as anyone ever could.
TBH I would even say G-Witch mostly makes sense even without the supplementary material.
Love the King-Ohger love in this video. Truely a magnificent season of Sentai.
Agreed on the Paratext segment. I have a simple philosophy when it comes to this matter. If your story requires outside supplementary material to be fully understood, that's bad storytelling. Supplementary Material is supposed to complement an already completed work.
1:03:33. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen character-focus episodes/content being derided as "Filler". Even in media outside of Anime where that term doesn't really apply like Cartoons or Live Action shows. It's really annoying that so many see an episode that doesn't actively develop the main plot and instantly write it off as "Filler".
I don't think most people outside of Japan who enjoy Code Geass are familiar with the side material, so the claim that the audience can't possibly understand the story at all without that information is not very convincing. It might help to clarify specific points, but I didn't feel like I was missing out on something vital or which I hadn't already figured out.
FF7, FF13, and FF15 are big examples of how Not to do Supplementry Text for the games!
Well, this is going to be a very and long wild ride, and i'm for it!!
Hehe, I love that opening quote. Marathoning its source as I speak
Also Geats is fresh on my mind and I just realized that Sakurai Keiwa is the Suzaku on that show......Damn I am not gonna be able to not see that in media now. Probably for the best really
I just want to see a fight between a cyborg George Washington and Emperor Charles.
hope we get Alexis camoes praising Kallen
So King Ohger was Code geass done, right? That's the impression I'm getting with all the clips, really loving the idea
Actually, I think Shinta is making the opposite statement. He doesn't seem to like King Gainer at all and claims that Tomino made the writing flaws worse. I'd have to go back and watch the series again to argue about it because I haven't seen any part of King Gainer in more than a decade.
@@bluespaceman7937 Kingohger, not King Gainer.
@@Hawkatana Fair point, I read that comment too fast. I'll admit to that mistake. Either way, I'm sure they have more differences than similarities.
Felling an oppresor by being a villain and gathering a group to see to it the People are freed?
Sounds like an accurate comparison to me @@bluespaceman7937
@@bluespaceman7937 I feel that King Gainer while not great is also clearly a show that didn't take itself seriously in the slightest and while that doesn't excuse all it's failings, it makes many of them much more forgivable in that context. Eg it's big bad's motivation is that one of the main cast had a one night stand with his sister and he (the big bad) is last seen being taken home by said sister, with her telling him "the wild man is only good for one night of lovein". Not to say King Gainer is great by any stretch, but Shinta's inherent dislike of such primarily comedic shows, likely colored his views a bit there.
18:42 Kinda surprised that you didn’t Use Babylon 5 clip or sound byte regarding Suzaku. ‘To show the world I was right and the world was wrong’
1:30:14 If I had to surmise in a quote: ‘ If you knew the truth and looked at me the same way I looked at myself in the mirror: I would blow my goddamn brains out.’ Nate Ford from Leverage Second David Job
See you in Part 2
I'm hoping to see some PurpleEyes references
I was in high school when Code Geass first came out and it was one of the top anime being talked about alongside Death Note, Gintama, Ghost in the Shell SAC, and Naruto. As I was in school, I never got to see Code Geass as it was originally broadcasted due to it being in a early afternoon time slot and I never got home before 5 (being one of the last off the bus sucked). However, I would come to put watching anime on the back burner for awhile due life changing events (my dad passing away) and would not pick it back up until Gundam 00 season 2. By that point the hype train had set off into the sunset for Code Geass for me and even now I have no real motivation to pick it up to watch. Maybe your review of the series will change my mind. Though saying that it would have to get in line behind Captain Harlock 1978, Knight Rider, and J Decker in the watch list as they are currently the only thing keeping me sane as I look for a job whose pay is more than a dollar over minimum wage and has as close to full time hours that I can get. Looking forward to seeing that next part.
He seems to like the first season at least. Personally, I like both, but admit the second half is weaker.
1:25:40 don't forget hibiki
Pretty care for good boys and girls
Kimura's sexualization of characters certainly doesn't surprise me, considering one of his earliest works was on the hentai game series Sogna Viper
Alright, now I'm curious as to what the 4-5 seasons of Kamen Rider that botched the narrative. All I can think of of is Ryuki and maybe Zi-O
He really don't like Agito so I would add that to the list.
Part of me wants to say Kiva? I only say that cause I know many in the fan base who don't like it. Aside from that I know Shinta is also sour to Den-O, but I think that is for different reasons.
Ryuki, second halves of Blade and Hibiki, Den-O.
Fak! UA-cam didn't inform me of your new videos! I will rectify this!
Can you review Pokémon the first move?
Code Geass probably has the most fan service for a series that isn’t Ecchi.
Gurren Lagann has arguably a similar amount, just concentrated in Yoko.
Are u insane?
Kevin Seymour is not a bad adr director.
Oh boy oh boy I can already tell that this review series is going to be good one just based on this first part.
I don't know if it will necessarily be all that good a one. With all do respect Shinta can start to veer into insufferable territory when he's being super negative, even when the thing his reviewing sucks. And given what he thinks of Code Geass post R1, I think there is going to be a lot of that.
5:00 what are you yapping about bro.
8:56 is considered shows best character besides lelouch??? Since when? She is not a deuteragonist either.
9:20 what narrative bs?
16:00 complete misrepresentation of Suzakus character. Suzaku only joined britannia as means of escaping his past
18:23 the story isnt trying to portray suzaku or anyone as a moral person…
20:36 “fall from grace” false
20:48 what problems?
21:00 with all this “works and studies” you have effortfully wasted on trying to criticize the series why would you not state a single one of them or even extrapolate all them? That just seems unproductively wasted and insecure of your efforts.
21:26 what is wrong with the resurrection film? Again the fact u admittedly claim to have wasted 5 years of your life on something you hate so much is not only sounding so sad but it all is moot when you refused to provide ur actual critics that you again spent half a decade for.
22:00 “the writers know how to only write what they think the audience want vs what they actually would want” … isn’t that quite literally the same thing?
22:21 how is it a victim of such mentality?
22:35 so you believe the audience have not gotten what they wanted from code geass, (no proof) all because you believe that the writer and director along with other staff members on the series had contrasting idea when making it? (Also no proof)
22:40 half the story isn’t actually in the anime… again what is ur bases?
23:00 side content is not “half of the story we never got in the anime”… side content is exactly which is, a side content. The picture dramas and audio dramas are cannon but not the novels/manga which are spin-off of the anime which is the original and main source material, and again not the side content. The picture/audio dramas show bits and pieces of background events which are already apparent enough in the ACTUAL story which is the anime.
24:05 the alternative continuity that mainly being the movies do not rewrite the story to worse at all.
24:33 how? The main cg series that is the anime perfectly structures itself along to tell its story to the fullest and the main reason why side content like games, novels, manga, etc exist is only served as a extension of entertainment for audience who also enjoy different forms of mediums. The code geass anime gave attention to every detail it presented.
25:14 no it doesn’t. The series does not rely or require paratext as the original source material supports itself already without having to rely on sub materials to fill in anything about it. The story and anime are already self contained, the people who misunderstand things within it is not a predicating that it isnt self contained, its predicating media illiteracy as you are when saying it isn’t self contained.
26:00 please actually cite anything you said up to the part of believing the writer did not focus on building up to the ending or explain how it doesnt “work”.
26:55 akito the exiled is not side content??? It is a spin off series via different protagonist within the same timeline and course of events as s1-2 however that doesn’t change the fact it is cannon.
So everything you said up to 27-30 I believe is predicated on misconceptions of the interview you linked? Nothing of which you claimed is shown or stated in that interview. It isn’t that they(sunrise producers/executives) didn’t have faith in how the show would work, it’s because of it being an original concept which btw they had similar skepticism with cowboy bepop which is another anime original from sunrise studio.
32:40 correct answer is, it would be not perfect.
32:45 except none of gundam is remotely similar to code geass.
37-43 about the whole taniguichi sexualizing characters tangent, he has debunked all those claims on interviews but you already knew that.
42:30-45 okouchis relationship with sunrise studio quite literally has nothing to do with how he wrote code geass as with code geass specifically they never got in his creativity of storytelling. Moreover, okouchi was working on other projects when roze of the recapture was being made, not necessarily because him and sunrise have a squabble, regardless plz cite where either of them have presented beef of some degree that got in his way of writing cg?
45:25 okouchi has written 11 original works/series… i think that is a lot.
46:30 being a novel writer and working for someone else at the start of your career makes u a short coming when being a writer?
46:44 this quite literally is never the case with his writing style. He always makes necessary information apparent in balance mix of “show dont tell” and intricate dialogues that seem realistic, look at the modern adaptation of devilman crybaby? Or sk8 the infinity, or maybe his magnum opus, code geass. None of them have instances of him leaving out any crucial information, he perfectly paces it with the length of the show and its episodes and goes over all its details in subtlety. This is why even in his anime adaptation works you can see how he perfectly comprehends the novel/manga length of texts to convert it into anime as shown with azumango daioh and planetes.
47:55 you’re wrong in both. Not every or even most stories (not just animanga) does a story or plot happen because of characters only, it happens for many causes within story outside characters. In okouchis especially in code geass most of plot happens because of characters as well as mix of other things but yeah plot just doesn’t happen on itself.
48:04 ahh yes Lelouch’s name, date of birth, personality, and geass are characteristics that just happened along the way and not thought of before hand.. such bs bro.
48:14 uhh the plot and characters are coexistences… theyre predicated on each other to exist. You cannot have a plot without character yes but you cannot have a character without plot either which is what okouchis work coherently exemplifies, idk why you disagree.😊
49-54 all require evidence
55-58 by this point on i can see that your main complaint strives on disliking room for interpretation on characters dynamics in story within code geass. Thats ur opinion, but the issue is blaming the writers or any other part of the series as cause when it isn’t for your preferences.
1:04:20 gng, what code geass mid season cliffhanger??
1:06:27 i mean at this point it is apparent the entire criticism for you strives on lack of misinterpreting lot of things in code geass and how it was being made etc, but the give away finally shows when you actually think that kallen x lelouch was the shows main intent of a shipping… you could have said shirely and CC but you chose to say kallen, I mean i already understood you misinterpreted her entire character when you claimed she is second best character as well as a deuteragonist from the start… but woah.
1:06:54 cg doesn’t work as a “transliteral” adaptation of other works…
1:07:00 william Shakespeare… how so?
1:7-1:14 no evidence again
1:15:39 ironic you bring up the title about world of lies when you proceed to immediately lie about okouchis near doom career bs and as far as to lie about taniguichi claims on okouchi and his works.
1:36:44 i mean i dont even think i need to address this minor complaint? 90% of the fanbase universally almost agree dub cg is peak but keep blaming voice directors ig
1:45:50 none of gundam is an inspiration for code geass btw, both taniguichi and okouchi debunked this myth
1:46:23 as interesting parallel as that is, the creators also debunked this when asked if america was in any of its way meant to be portrayed by brittannia towards japan
1:45:53 idk what you meant by the dates in comparison but cg is taking place from 2010-2018
Alternate timeline
1:47:40 cg is not transliterated adaptation of hamlet, it may have similar tropes but that recurrence has existed since near dawn of time even within different myths and yeah lelouch does read hamlet but thats to show its more of a reference as it could easily been replaced with any other books. A more accurate transliteration would be lion king. Because cg is just too unique of a story/plot to be some lose retelling of hamlet
1:48:00-1:52:00 all these examples are such reaches
2:06:38 cg debuted in December of 2006
2:08:31 another and hopefully the last misinterpretation of this godforsaken review. When taniguichi was describing his inspiration from kamen rider to cg, he is initially referring to basic gist of Lelouch portrayed as cunning and having an evil organization from brittannias pov. He isnt literally making Suzaku to be the good guy and Lelouch the bad guy of cg nor did he intend to do so… kamen riders dynamic was a brief inspiration as he decided to flip the roles and shows the story from pov of what is normally deemed as “bad guy”. Hope this clears up the misunderstanding
2:08:55 finally something i agree to hear
@@ItzSwxzyit’s good to know there are people here that aren’t braindead, but I have one gripe with you your points about hamlet. While CG is not the direct retelling it borrows heavily from it and Shakespeare in general as well as from the model of a greek tragedy.
@@BB-hx4mj i mean sure? Thats fine i think literally basically every media has tropes from Shakespeare or greek myths
I see you are also a Kallen x Lelouch
2:04:22 And that is what we call a marty-stu, and why many people (myself included) hate Tendou. The writers' insistence on constantly handing him victories on a silver platter in addition with his arrogance makes him an insufferable twat who infuriates the audience through his mere existence.
Tendou by definition can't be a marty stu, because he has actual legitimate character flaws. He arrogance rubs people the wrong way and causes them not here him out, in situations where he really needs people to here him out. Thus it is partialy his fault that he and the other riders never truly come together. This is something the show plainly presents as a flaw of Tendou.
@@TeamTowers1 And yet the story portrays every single one of those people as being in the wrong for not grasping Tenou's """greatness""" and actively goes out of its way to pander to him at every single opportunity. "By definition can't be a marty-stu" my ass.
@@Hawkatana The problem is it's nothing to do with not grasping Tendou's greatness. It's that their actions are actively making things worse and they aren't listening to the only guy in the know of what's really happening. While Tendou does play some role in alienating them, he is objectively in the right, in the wider situation and they are objectively in the wrong. One point or a Marty Stu/Mat Stu, isn't just them being portrayed as always rights, it's the story portraying them as right when they are objectively in the wrong. Tendou, for his part is rarely objectively in the wrong and ego aside, he most his actions are usually reasonable ones, with the information available to him.
@@TeamTowers1 Ergo, he's portrayed as the only smart person in a world of mouth-breathing idiots as if the very world itself revolves around him. That makes him, by definition: *a Marty-stu.*
@@Hawkatana No it doesn't. There are plenty of Marty Stu boxes he doesn't tick.
1: For his skills and ability to not be narratively justified. Tendou doesn't tick this box as the narrative makes it clear that all his skills and abilities are a result of him spending most his life training for this job. Ergo he is so good at all those things, because he spent years training to be and not just someone who easily mastered those skills.
2: For him to be portrayed as in the right, even when he is objectively in the wrong. He doesn't tick this box, as all the times he's portrayed as in the right, he really is in the right and his actions are reasonable when you pay attention.
3: His flaws are either excused or not acknowledged by the narrative. He doesn't tick this box as his ego is portrayed as a genuine character flaw that creates problems for himself and others and this is in fact an aspect where the show consistently portrays him as being in the wrong on.
4: All the other characters love him and unjustly praise him. He doesn't tick this box, as most the rest of the cast are alienated by his attitude and they barely put up with him.
it's good to see you're still at it
I saw the .hack retrospective videos a long time ago
actually recently finished it as they were part of my backlog of videos to watch
they were pretty enjoyable