Is the used pinball market about to crash? Plus, why I sold my pinball
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2024
- #pinball#homearcade#jawspinball
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ep 176 - I sold my pinball machine
Drop JDV a line: evilgeniusemail@gmail.com
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It's been gently pointed out by some kind commentators that the Stern JAWS pro edition starts off at $6999 not $5999. Please make a note of it.
A new Stern pro is $6999 not "5 or 6 thousand". A quick search of retailers of MSRP would have revealed that. This video seems well intentioned but very ill-informed
I was going to mention that too, the price is decently more than he stated.
Hey JDV, great talk. IN another 10 years or so will we have 24K 3d Virtual Pinball. Probably the best widely available Vpin can be ordered direct for about Half of the cost that resellers are pushing them, I know I looked into it and contacted the manufacturer. Even after that I am sticking with the ALP's and ALP 4K, I'll have about 2200 in three machines.
Thanks Carlo! Yeah, I may well end up buying an ALP 4K too - do want to play those Zen/Steam vpins without having to add it all to my existing vpin. And now I have more space.....
About 5 years or so i was strapped for cash and sold a fully functional T2 machine for like 2k. Boy am i kicking myself for that one.
Grizzly, that's one of my dream tables, so I feel your pain. But sometimes you gotta roll the hard 6....
I think virtual pinball is the future for home use!
Realistically, it's the only future for most of us. New, real, tables continue to climb in price while vpin keeps making technological leaps and bounds. Until a manufacturer can make a real 3/4 sized table (Zizzle's PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN the closest I've seen) for $1999 or less, it's simply too expensive/too large for most home arcade fans.
Yeah, I built mine back in in 2015 or so for around $500 and can play 350 tables. Do I need a better GPU, probably but still cheaper than owning one real game. Keep in mind I REALLY want to own one but so hard to pull the trigger at those prices.
I think if you run a 3060 or better video card you'll probably be OK (make sure it's Nvidia). And I do miss my SF pin... but still glad I sold it.
I've been looking into building my own virtual pinball table for a few months now but the screen is the major sticking point, in an ideal world I'd grab a 3D OLED with 100hz+ refresh but the only 3D OLEDs ever made were 60hz. Really hoping the new glasses free 3D screens that have been getting shown for the last year or so get popular and someone released a 42" plus one
Glasses-free 3D could def be sweet. But I can another tech I'm going to talk about in my next couple of videos which may come close... so keep your eyes peeled.
Vpin is nothing like the real thing, I'm sorry I disagree. Used market is not going to "collapse" either. It's only gone back to how it was before covid. Used shouldn't be the same price as NIB.
I do agree with you on the last point though, newer Sterns are a good place to own.
I don't suppose it will collapse, but I do think we're already seeing reductions of price; of pins that remain unsold for months. I mean charging $2000 for an average EM with wear on it? That can't last.
@@evilgeniusentertainmentCan't comment on EMs but that's a smaller group of people into those. Modern games and 90s game prices seem to have stabilized though
I love real pinball. I’m lucky to have a local BeerCade with a ton of good machines and craft beers. Cold beers and a pocket full of quarters works for me. Bonus is happy hour from 2-7pm, you get 4 quarters with every drink.
Now that sounds like a good time! The closest pinball to me is about 35 minutes away, and no beer. Which is probably why I've spent so much time working on my vpin!
@@evilgeniusentertainment wish I had the space, time and patience for the software and hardware for VPin.
same here and I can only afford one real pinball machine. If I want to try new games, I head to local barcade or pinball expos. Cheaper than buy anything new. Played hundreds of machines this weekend for $30. One machine is 4k used or over 7k plus new for decent ones.
Really awesome video JDV!! I watched it during my lunch at work. I really think the vpins are here to stay in means that they aren’t expensive and aren’t hard to maintain and for that matter buying one. I have the micro from Atgames I love that little thing.
Hey, thanks Julio! I wish more people could play a higher end vpin to get a better feel of what's possible. Of course, the new 4K ALP is going to some of that for sure.
I LOVE mechanical pinball.
Really want a Ghostbusters Premium but they go for $12K! There’s rumor that Stern will remake it. I hope so.
Just discovered your channel today, love the style and content. Im subscribed now!
PS I like the dark room/brick wall setting. I’ll be building a man cave soon and might go that route!
Hey, glad you found us! I love real pin too, but the expense and space needed is beyond me. Wish there was a true budget home pin, but Stern's totally discontinued that line (one which had grown nearly as expensive as the pro line anyway). That brick paper is pretty amazing - good bang for the buck!
@@evilgeniusentertainment is that faux brick and if so, where can I find it?
It's just paper - I got it at hobby Lobby, but I'm pretty sure they sell it at about every craft store too. I think it's also on Amazon....
Those old Italian pinball machines are beautiful, but if I owned one, I would never use it as anything other than a background for erotic photography: I'd never actually play the thing.
They are beautiful, some of them are amazing... but if comparing it to a modern Stern for playability, most match up to price vs performance
Great change of pace video JDV! As much as I love pinball, I am currently saving money to get myself a real Pro Pac-Man's Pixel Bash but down the line, I would definitely get myself a pinball machine but I would NOT buy a used pinball machine because I don't know what damage if may have gotten from its previous owner or damage from transit. But, here's a unique thought: I would love to get a customized pinball machine of...Morris The 9 Lives Cat. He is an icon, well loved and revered, and worthy of its own pinball machine. If pinball machines of Star Trek, Jaws and even, Lost In Space could be made, why not Morris? I would but it in a heartbeat.
Hey thanks Joe! There are a couple of cat themed tables out there (BAD CATS being one the pops into mind immediately), but nothing for Morris... yet! Funny you mention that, b/c I intend on buying an old EM and "re-theming" it to THE FOG or some other title that hasn't been done yet. There's a couple of cool videos on how to do it.... but they do inherently require a boat-load of work and willingness to re-wire miles of cables.
I haven’t played a vr pinball that compares to real pinball.
I won't hate you mate. I understand your point of view. But for me it's real world pinball. I have a collection of tables from EM to SS. And yes even a couple of VP's as well. Yes I'm a Serious pinhead. Glad to see you making a video about a proper product 😉 Well done...
Thank you Lon, always good to hear from you! A reason I didn't mention was size - that STREET FIGHTER pin was freakin' huge! 400+ pounds and took up the space of maybe 3 arcade machines. The shaque is only so big... but I do want at least 1 or 2 EMs (if I can ever find one at a reasonable price), and 1 or 2 modern Sterns.
Thanks for all the information. I have an EM collection and have been thinking about the pricing market for EM's. Seems a bit low at the present time?
If you look at pinside pricing over the years, EMs went often sold for $300-500. Sometimes perfectly working machines sold for $200. So when I routinely see EMs going for $2000 a few years later, I gotta scratch my head in wonder. Reality probably is that they were valued a bit low before covid, and are now valued a bit higher then they should. I see guys trying to sell EMs with playfield's beat to heck for $1500 and just have to laugh.
I think we are going to see some leveling over the next few years, but overall it will continue to rise as more EM tables degrade and fail.
Yeah, I can see that - they aren't making any more of them, are they? But EMs might be the most niche of all the arcade/video games sectors, so it'll be interesting to see how much the prices fluctuate.
Thanks for the insight...
I'm going to keep a close watch on them.
I agree. I built my second Vpin 2 plus years ago have 372 games SSF , with real nudge and run super graph 3D with Trioviz glasses and dang it’s so close to real pin. Sold my real SF2 pins also this past spring and have two more EMs to sell off . But keeping my TZone 😀.
Well would be nice - cause it would make it more affordable to get a pin. And I currently have none...
It'll take a while - but these prices will come down. At least, I hope they do!
SF2 falls in the top 10 of worst DMD era pins 🤔
It's poorly ranked for sure, yet for a single pin collection, it's actually a good pin as you can either chase high scores or go for beating all the characters. My biggest complaint about that particular pin is no spinner (weird, b/c is has just about everything else), and poor flow. But yeah, it's no ADDAMS FAMILY!
@@evilgeniusentertainment I just meant it's good you.sold it now! 😁
Yeah - sad to see it go, but man of man - it was taking up about 1/4 of the shack!
$6K for Jaws? I'll send you the money right now if you can pick up a Jaws for $6K. The pinball market has been "crashing" for the last 5 years... still waiting for it to happen.
they had Jaws for about 7k at GSP expo this weekend.
I just don’t think the capability of a vpin is there yet. At least the ones I’ve tried are slightly laggy and even with added solenoids lack the tactile feel of a real pin. That said I can see it becoming a well worth it investment in the not so distant future.
I am not seeing prices drop and was at the recent GSP expo and prices still too high for used and new pinball machines. Too many rich people are buying these toys.
At a minimum, a pinball novice like me would prefer to own an ALP and play multitudes of games to decide which ones I really enjoy before biting the bullet on a real pinball machine. I don't own a either right now but I would like at least one virtual and one real pinball machine eventually (but as you said, only if the latter can ever be bought at a reasonable price - I'll never spend what they're going for now).
Vpin is absolutely fantastic for trying out a table you're thinking about buying in the real world. I do want a nice EM... or GODZILLA.
What’s a EM table? Would love to learnt the terminology with this hobby. Aside from that pinball is not reasonably priced to the public. Just too expensive.
EM's are the original pinball machines, the ones with chimes and bells. They don't have electronic circuits or computer chips (essentially, just wires & relays). I think the last EMs were made in 1977 (thus making the "youngest" table nearly a century old).
Electromechanical. Basically pre-digital tables. These had score reels instead of DMDs (dot matrix display) Game modes were more limited. No high-scores lists, music, or digital sounds. Most of these had less of an incline, but a wider drain, so they tend to be slower but a bit more frustrating.
Solid state tables of the 80s and 90s really was the height of pinball which is why those go for the highest premium.
Stern premium should be 7k lol...
Pro 4k ... Would be ideal and Le 9k
That would be great... but sadly not likely to ever happen. And it sound like Stern's eliminated home pins, which is unfortunate.
I agree that the cost to fun factor of pinball is very high -- but it didn't help that you got what is widely considered one of the worst pinball machines ever :)
Oh, SF is fine. I had GORGAR before that. The truth, at least for me, is that (some) real pinballs are beautiful pieces of art that you can also play a game of pinball on. Vpins are arcade machines that you can get a game of pinball on.
I would love to buy a real world Jurassic park machine. Any table I would love to own. But for my budget looks like I’m gonna have to make my own Vpin.
prices are looking really good for used on stern JP right now. I was thinking about picking up Godzilla or Scooby but idk... used market is starting to get juicy...
Prices are dropping, although slower then I'd like. The over-all good thing is that pinball is alive and well and perhaps looking better then it has in decades. Vpin helps real pin, and vice versa.
Agree 100%. Good video.
Thank you! And thanks for watching
Where do you see Stern putting out "new pro tables" for $5000-6000? That's fake news, they start at $7000 these days and that's the cheapest price by a good margin compared to other manufacturers. If I'd owned an inexpensive machine like Street Fighter for a few years and played it enough, I wouldn't be worried about "getting out" and getting my money back because I'd have already gotten my monies worth out of it. If I sold that game for $500 less than I paid several years later, I wouldn't be bummed about it (should have gotten way more than $500 in value by owning it). The number of manufacturers and games coming out will only upset the NIB market or the very "high end" used market (AF, TOM, ATFM, TOTAN). Old, inexpensive games like SFII aren't going to get affected by this. There are way more buyers for these games than for NIB games. If anything they will become more desired as NIB starts to price more people out and they look for older games to update their collection.
A few distributors have JAWS for less then $5999 for the pro. Meh - if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. The used market is coming down - just how fast will be seen.
@@evilgeniusentertainment Which distributors? Any links to share?
Id love one. But i cannot afford one. I don't have a UA-cam pinball chat fundraiser. Hell, if i had one id be nervous what do i do when something breaks?! Vpin satisfies the itch.
I'll be getting another one God willing, but not until they've come back down to earth a bit
I have zero nostalgia for pinball. That said, I recognize many do. It's all about taste. I will never own a real world pinball machine because the maintenance just scares the hell out of me. It would have to be a steal of a deal for me to move on it. Vpin is fine for me. It's more in line with my tech skills and I can maintain/repair it as necessary. I have a Legends HD and a 1Up Star Wars. Enough for me. To those that do collect real pinball, kudos to you. Do what makes you happy. That's all that matters in this hobby, am I right? Good video!
Exactly - it's whatever floats your boat. I understand guys who only want real pins, and those who want a "taste" of pinball with entry level vpin like A1up & AG. There's vast appeal to being able to click a power button on and just having it work; to flicking a button and getting in a couple of quick games. Real pinball is amazing, but it is not cheap.
Love the conversation starter! I can't believe you sold your IRL pin tables! But seriously, I would be happy to have the used market prices drop a bit. First though -- I'm so happy of the side-effect of covid and locked up at home had on the pinball market and how it brought pinball manufactures back to life or created brand new ones. We wouldn't have had all these new manufactures and designers of new machines if it weren't for that (my opinion). But YES! bring down the prices a bit of used machines, especially when they are going for as much as a new machine.
BUT I'll have to disagree with you JDV that a virtual pin is "just as good" as a IRL pinball table. They feed the need a little differently though. The visual aspect of an IRL table with the lights and being able to see it all work is like looking at an intricate creation and just loving every nook and detail. Like looking at a car engine with all the wires and parts all looking great, or even suspension or transmission. But yes, for a used machine there is an upkeep to do. The physical top-playfield stuff is genuinely fun (cleaning, polishing, and changing the tires (rubbers)). Even soldering isn't too bad of a skill to pick up. Tracing voltage and understanding that aspect -- that is where I personally ask for help. Just like with automotive, the pinball community loves to help others take care of their pins.
Anyway. Love the "debate", love the discussion, and love the content.
Lova ya brother! Thanks for supporting the channel! And I totally agree - covid did help re-ignite interest in arcades in general and pinball in particular. And I do think that vpin helps real pin, and vice versa. One of the reasons I'm so bad at owning real pin is that I am the worst solderer in the world. Literally the worst (which means pinball can get very intimidating to fix!)
WAIT A FKN MINUTE …. Where Are you getting a new STERN for 6k ???
I'd rather own one of the new 4k alps that I can have multiple games on and pay 1200 than one real machine that costs 6-10k plus maintenance for 1 single game. But people are free to spend their future retirement savings on pinballs, to each their own.
Its nice to have variety and digital is definitely cheaper, but they don't play like a real table. The physical world makes a genuine table play differently over time and that makes its special imo. Digital is just too predictable and stiff feeling.
That ALP 4K is looking better all the time. A great way to play fairly high level tables; the ease of use is unbeatable.
JG - I would have agreed with that a year ago, but the new physics for VPX (and to a lesser degree Future Pinball) are now so good that it's hard to tell the difference. Put another way, when I used to play vpin then went to a real table, my game always suffered. But now, if anything, it's made my game better on real-world pins because I can get more stick time in with oh-so-close to the real thing vpin.
@@evilgeniusentertainment I think so much of it varies from table to table as well. You get consistency with vpin that you just can't get with real tables due to age, degradation, replacement parts, maintenance, etc.
The Monster Bash table near me is such a bummer as it constantly causes airballs. I've seen videos of other tables where that doesn't happen.
I personally had a high-end virtual pin and a couple of cheaper real pins.
The virtual pin felt like a soulless video game to me. Imo, you need mechanical action for a true pinball experience.
I was happy to see the virtual pin leave as it made more room for a real machine.
That being said, virtual pinball machines are great for the space and money conscious. It's just not the same as real pinball.
Oh JDV I’m smh. Virtual pins will never compare to the real thing. I buy to enjoy not for investment. Sell the virtual keep the real thing. I’m not a Fair Weather collector so market be damned. If I could afford to own a real pin I would cherish it for life.
I think it depends on the title for me. I want a nice EM or two, and a couple of Stern home pins. Nothing crazy... but even that would, with current pricing, but exorbitantly expensive. There are a couple of pins I would never sell, but STREET FIGHTER wasn't one of them!
@@evilgeniusentertainment I’d love to get that Stern Jaws but can’t afford it sadly. But I do get why these cost so much to manufacturer and design. If I had the money to burn I would definitely invest in one that I was happy with.
Very SMART on your part for selling.Pinball machines are definitely on a decline in price. The new digital 4k machines are slowly taking over, I think because they are easier to maintain and have multiple tables on 1 system. Thanks for the info and footage.👍🤙🎮🕹
Thanks for stopping by! The ease of use is such a killer "app" for vpin. Hit escape, scroll down to the next table, hit enter, and 10 seconds later you're playing. Beyond being able to play tables you'll likely never see in the real world (depending on where you live, that could mean all tables!), you can also play vpin exclusive games like DEATH STAR ASSAULT and THE FOG. Having both would be ideal, bu if you can only have 1 table, vpin seems like a no-brainer to me.
7000 pro not 6000 anyways 9500 premium anyways lol
The size and strength of market demand for pinball is just puny: there never has been a pinball game on the same scale as Pac Man -neither in the arcades nor on a home console. Having a pinball machine at home is the equivalent of owning a yact: it is just an expression of wealth and power. That doesnt mean it's evil: it just can't be compared to any other segment of the retro gaming market.
Lol, wrong on so many levels
Pinball represents the OG of retro gaming.
I don’t think your generalization is fair, I financed my first and only physical pin this year and I’m lower middle class.
It’s not an expression of power or wealth, it’s a piece of art and engineering that the whole family enjoys and keeps them off their phones.
Plus Addam’s Family was/is easily the PAC Man of pinball, just by the numbers and how people who couldn’t care less about pinball generally have a story about playing it and know where they were at the time.
No? I have pinball machines at home because I genuinely love and enjoy playing pinball. Also, pinball machines are WAY more complex then any video arcade machine. So comparing those two from a numbers standpoint is stupid.
You shouldn’t have a real machine if you think Vpin is even close to the same, what a load of nonsense
Have you played a state of the art vpin? (either DIY or $8500 commercial versions). 'Cause if you haven't, you'd be very surprised at just how close they are. Real pinball are prettier, but at this point they don't play any better. Just as video cameras eventually caught (and surpassed) film cameras, vpin is rapidly catching real pin. While you or I might prefer real pins, the cost/size of owning multiple machines is far beyond what 99% of the population can handle. Put another way, a vpin in the hand is better then a real pin in the bush.
I just played the CGC Cactus Canyon remake yesterday and it was VERY close to my experience playing the VPX version with 3D glasses.
Virtual pinball sucks, VR Pinball is so much better, once you try that then you will want to build a pinsim cabinet, however neither will ever compare to the real thing, but seriously, learn VR pinball and once you get into that, virtual pinball will go out your door. virtual pinball is nothing but a flat picture, 4K or not, it is flat, VR pinball you can see all the pieces and it is "Almost" like you are looking at the real table.
VR is likely next on my list, but for right now, 2D is working very well (I'm almost afraid of VR pinball - 'cause if it's actually better, my family will never see me again!)
The anaglyph settings in VPX 10.8 Open GL have improved tremendously. I play exclusively with 3D glasses now and it is great. Very accessible for all players and offers a near real feel compared to actual pinball. The only downside is that certain table colors end up muted, but it is a small price to pay.
This is a very inexpensive solution to enhance the experience.
The lines are blurring, aren't they? They main thing I think people should realize is just how fun vpin is to play. Is it exactly the same as real pin? Nope. Is it still super fun? Sure is!
@@evilgeniusentertainment Have you dabbled with the anaglyph settings yet? If not, give it a try. I personally use BIAL Red/Cyan glasses from Amazon (about $5-$7). I've tried others which were not very good, but those so far have been the best cost to performance 3D glasses.