I think the key of the short is that a block is just a strike that hits your strike. If you turn off your lightsaber to circumvent it, you allow the strike to continue unobstructed.
I think Charlie understood that. He just said that when you turn off your lightsaber, you, at the same time dodge the opponent's attack. If you are a Jedi you should be able to dodge that attack.
@@MarioDeppner the surprise factor and sudden imbalance could help. Imagine you are pushing against a door, but someone from the other side pulls it towards themself. You'd be pushing against nothing and lurch forward. 5:17
@@MarioDeppnernot if another Jedi/Sith is your opponent. They’re also force sensitive. You’d need to recognize that the swing they’re throwing wouldn’t hit you. With the same reaction speed that they would need to dodge the lightsaber turning back on. But, In real sword fighting, every swing is trying to hit you.
@@AidanS99biggest joke is everyone throwing away the evident fact that no, you can't use this move safely: It is the nuclear weapon of lightsaber combat. If you use it, your best bet is a double KO which is still an amazing move, but no one wants to throw away their life in an otherwise probably winable scenario. That said, strong force users would be able to move faster than you, so it would be highly uneffective vs better/stronger fighters, and you don't need it vs weaker ones. The fact "it exists in canon" named means everyone knows of it. Even if you consider it a shock move, most lightsaber uses probably could understand what is happening the moment you turn it off vs an equal opponent.
“They would have to see into the future or some shit to block that” Charlie they literally have precognition, how do you think they block hundreds of shots coming at them 😂
@@Z3R0NU11 no, precognition is the ability to see or predict the future. Jedi do have this ability to some extent, but for the actual ability to block blaster bolts, precognition plays a small role. In lore its explained that the force is essentially detecting the shots and moving their bodies for them. This is why jedi must train this ability, its not as easy as their natural precognition, they must learn how to let the force guide them and not resist
I think the biggest issue is that every time we see a lightsaber in the movies, when you turn it off there's a delay where the saber recedes back into the hilt, and it's actually fairly slow. There could also be a delay before you can reactivate a lightsaber or something like that.
@@AIopekis Lightsaber activation speed varies from medium to medium and even scene to scene, cause from what I remember sometimes the Lightsaber would ignite super fast and other times it would ignite slow ( compared to other appearances ) solely for dramatic effect so it honestly depends on the plot....
I feel like I’ve seen it before deployed near instantly before. It’s been a while since I’ve seen anything Star Wars so I may be misremembering, but I think they deploy slowly when the writers want to make a scene more dramatic.
Yeah, people are applying the logic of a flashlight to it, but it’s a fictional item that has been shown to have a relatively slow growing/shrinking process when it’s turned on and off
7:18 "He'd have to be able to see into the future to predict it" I think it's pretty well established in star wars that both Jedi and the Sith can see into the future. It's how they're able to have such amazing reflexes and deflect blaster attacks. They literally see the attack before it happens, this happens constantly.
Everyone is barking up the wrong tree. The best explanation is that lightsabers cant toggle on and off that fast. There may be some in universe technological reason that requires a short cooldown before turning back on again. Even if its just 1 seocnd that would be enough to make this impractical. And even if they could, the ignition and retraction isn't instantaneous. There is a slight delay while blade grows/shrinks that would give your opponent some time to avoid it.
Exactly, something like “the ignition mechanism only works when the lightsaber cools down a bit”, which could take even 2 seconds and it would already solve it
I mean, we've seen the speed it takes. It varies from moment to moment, but for the most part there's a noticeable period where the blade extinguishes.
The best explanation I've seen for why shit like this doesn't happen more often (and it's a total hand wavey explanation but does fit in universe) it's that they have precognizants so they would see it coming and this like any other successful move/trick could occasionally worm its way through but wouldn't be a 100% effective.
That’s fine and all but I agree with Charlie unless you are like super well known for doing this move in combat I don’t see how you wouldn’t defeat anyone. It’s offense and defense as well. You swing and they don’t block it they die, if they do block you disengage saber and reignite it when you have the surprise kill shot cause you’re already in range for it. If they are swinging at you just simply deflect and throw one in randomly and whoever you’re fighting will die very quickly in the battle. It’s an instantaneous energy blade that you have full control over when it activates and doesn’t. And the fact that’s it’s known as a cheap move that most people wouldn’t do would help in using it as a method. Honestly I wouldn’t ever use it unless I knew I was gonna die in the next hit.
@@Mythowarsok how bout this. It’s too big a flaw in the system and from a writing perspective it’s too lazy. It should be ignored or held off and used as a final finishing blow after the fight. It’s not asking a lot to have the audience suspend disbelief. I personally think the “cowardly/unsportsmanlike” and “precognisant future vision” arguments to be plenty good reason to not have it happen constantly. And plus, I’d rather see an elaborate choreographed fight using lightsabers and force powers than some guy instantly win. There’s just some stuff you accept because it’s a story meant to entertain. It’s like dragon ball. Why doesn’t everyone just use solar flare all the time? Cause it’s boring. Yes it’s a flaw, but at least Star Wars gives you a couple flimsy reasons as to why they aren’t doing it. Edit: actually you know what the “cowardly/unsportsmanlike” argument works great. Jedi are basically monks and when written well fight defensively and with the goal of pacify or escape. So they shouldn’t even be considering instant kill moves. And sith draw power from fear and hatred. By drawing a fight out it gives them more chance to revel in their own might and bring their enemies low because sith are basically cats playing with their food.
The only way it could be "debunked", is if they use the force to essentially sense what the other person is going to do. Almost like a spidey sense and be able to react that way. Or even using the force to somehow "freeze" the other combatant and move out of the way.
@@Dyrock666 I want to elaborate on this. Grevious was a Kaleesh before getting cyborgified, a race of powerful warriors. You don't need the Force to beat a Jedi. The Mandalorians have a history of warring with the Jedi and winning using only their weapons and combat skills. Grevious was also trained by Dooku, who was once one of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order. A man who knows the ins and outs of Jedi combat.
Each force user has a force field around them that makes other force users incapable of using the force on them. That is why during fights they don’t just use the force to rip the lightsaber out their hands or nock em over.
The counters to the Trakata technique would be to become offensive or extremely defensive by dodging a lot. Knowing your opponent in the way how they fight will also provide good intel in how to counter this technique. This technique does not just come with advantages. Like everything else in life, there are disadvantages. The con of this technique is that it assumes that the defender will always try to parry or block. Against an opponent who utilizes footwork, knowledge about the opponent should not struggle with the technique. Another counter would be to stop following the trend of fighting like it's fencing, just smacking the blades (which of course is to look flashy and entertaining) and just stick with straight forward accurate attacks. Using the jedi force would also be a good way to create space to allow more reading of the opponent and time to think of other ways to counter the forbidden technique. If the Trakata technique becomes widely used, then it would become a standard of fighting which would no longer possess the great advantage it once had when jedis barely used it.
Trakata is a feint. If the opponent doesn't contest the feint then the user would immediately be punished. If the feint is executed with incorrect timing or against the wrong attack the user is also punished. If you remove your attacks ability to make contact then you always lose the clash. It's a useful technique but it isn't core to swordplay mechanics.
@@haydenrhead7692 Yeah, during the Utapau arc that got cut He also starts doing a hallway scene where he's shooting everyone with a Blaster and styling on them in it
Star Wars: "It's too OP guys, it would be so lame to spam it." Brandon Sanderson writing Ishar in Stormlight 4: "I'm about to toggle this sword on and off so mfing fast"
Charlie is wrong. The other guy who didnt turn it off already is swinging at you. He is the one with the advantage. You dont need superspeed; but you would in order to pull it off.
Well the fact the momentum doesn't disappear is bad for the person turning off the lightsaber, as the strike would run through unobstructed. And swords don't tend to just cross like the movies, if your blade is in a bind you're not going to just push against it, you're probably trying to deflect it. Btw if two swords did clash, that would take the momentum out of the strike. Two equal forces cancelling each other out.
this depends on how lightsabers work, but if it was a physical blade retracting within milliseconds (like Gin's Shikai in Bleach), I'd assume that some of that momentum would be transferred back to the hilt and thus push either the saber or the user back or off balance which would negate the advantage. The momentum cannot just disappear into nothingness.
@@abethebabelincoln7960the opponent doesn't need to only be blocking. If the opponent attempts to block once, you can just do the move. He only need to make this mistake once. I think that the logical conclusion to this has to be that, using lightsaber you have to never go for a nonoffensive deflection. You have to press the attack constantly.
@@abethebabelincoln7960 but the issue is, this is not how they actually fight in the shows. They do do blocks and deflections thus its still broken in univers. Edit: Plus, that also means that if your opponent wanted, he could almost guarantee both your deaths. He throws a swing, you throw yours to counter and pressure, he flicks his lightsaber to avoid yours, you both die. So even being absolutely aggressive still puts you in a bad place.
Funny thing is, Yoda has a perfect counter to this technique since his small body plus constantly moving fighting style that has him jump into lightsaber clashes to keep on moving make it so if anyone did try this against him, theyd miss and die cause they HAVE to always keep their lightsaber on against him or they'll die due to how fast he is plus how little there is to hit him, I just thought it was a fun thought
The point of the debunk video is that, in a swordfight, you're not often *just* moving to block, you're still threatening your enemy with your own weapon by, say, keeping the point on them to prevent them from advancing. If you advance and try to trakata someone who is holding a good line, you will end up walking right into their blade. You're saying just move out of the way, but it's way faster for the defender to just keep their point aimed at your face or torso than it is for you to move your entire body and keep your weapon on target. Best case scenario, if you're fighting somebody with similar skills, is that you both end up dead or maimed in the exchange. If you deactivate too soon, you get skewered by the counter before you reactivate. If you deactivate too late, they've already moved you off line anyway. In Star Wars, you see a lot of overhead cuts that get caught and bound a defender raising their blade perpendicular to the attack -- so the defender catches the attack in the center of their blade with the point facing to the side. In that kind of fight, trakata works perfectly. In real-world fencing, though, you don't catch attacks that way, you kind of rotate your guard up to catch the top half of their blade with the lower half of your own, moving their weapon to one side while keeping your point aimed at their face/torso. You can (and frequently will) be striking as part of this motion. Trakata is way more of a gamble in that situation, because the defender isn't 1) defending and then 2) striking, they are just striking in a way that also deflects. Trakata in that situation is just removing your only defense from in front of the opponent's weapon, and even if you reactivate after, you have to eat whatever counter they've started to get to that position.
In real life sword fighting, you usually want to block in a way that gives you a line of attack. If you just have to pure block, you're already in a disadvantage state. So in real life, the counterplay is that when they turn off their lightsaber, your block just hits them because your block is also an attack. Which is exactly what the SellswordArts clip shows (great swordfighting channel btw).
I like how the book the Order of Two explains how Jedi/Sith are moving so quick you are doing fighting techniques hoping you hit. Watching Yoda fight, try timing turning off on him.
I think it would work as the aggressor because you’re the one applying pressure and the person on defense would be watching your lightsaber trying to meet blows.
"This really effective technique is dishonorable..." -Proceeds to lose an entire space war despite being superhuman psychics with auto aim, bullet deflection abilities, the ability to turn laser blades into crop harvesters etc...
The better excuse was that you can't turn on the lightsaber fast enough to make it work. They should probably just leave it alone... the grunt writers at Disney couldn't handle the holdo maneuver, they certainly can't cope with this.
Tbf, its a one time use thing sort of thing due to the sniper not being able to withstand being used more than like 10 times (And thats being generous) due to the gun not being able to withstand all that energy being fired all at once a lot of times before it just breaks
@@dyermakerr I wish there were more viable weapons other then a saber (Force users as a concept is already part to blame, they are so strong). Z-6 is one of the only viable weapons against a saber... other than specific armor and shields.
The main difference in points I think was that Charlie is referring to using the technique AFTER already sabers and doing those extended blocks they love in the franchise. The short seemed to think that the goal was to avoid connecting with the opponent's saber at all, which of course wouldn't stop the saver zooming at your head if you don't put something in front of it.
It would be like dropping your sword to pull out a gun. A proper swordsman could definitely react in the split-second you were unprotected to kill you.
“This guy would have so be significantly faster”, “he’d have to see into the future”. Force sensitive people **can** increase their speed, have a slight amount of precognition, and even feel the intentions of another force user. If you’re so desperate to use this against a lightsaber user to pull something this risky, chances are they’re going feel that desperation and anticipate it. The only time this would work is if you’re going up against someone untrained in the force, and at that point you could pull the weapon out of their hands.
Retraction and reignition isn't consistent throughout the series. Sometimes they retract slowly and come out slowly. Watch how slowly Darth Maul's lightsaber comes out before the Qui-Gon fight amd the speed in which Luke's lightsaber comes out a cou0le times. The speed can be measured by the the user's ability to use the force in some cases in the books. Essentially it doesn't always come out instant and lightsaber don't fire consistently enough to make it viable in combat.
I have extremely strong opinions about this, but the short version is that if you assume both combatants are actually fighting to kill/hit the opponent in a realistic way it just would not work. You are never trying to strike the opponent's blade in a real sword duel unless you are trying to block, guard, or redirect it. If the opponent *does* disengage their sabre you then follow through your blocking action into an immediate strike which is *already* an extremely common move in real actual sword fighting, and you would obviously then hit them first in this case. It just would not work if the fighting were realistic. I think a lot of this discussion comes from seeing Star Wars or 'movie' swordfights where it's basically just 'showfighting' and you see lots of clashes blade-on-blade and it really distorts how fights actually go when they're realistic. You are trying, with every attack, to hit and kill the opponent. You don't throw a strike or start an exchange unless you think you may strike their body with the end result. Even when blocking you are never blocking with the intent just to take the hit and see what's next, you are trying to exploit their attack for an opening to strike back with. There are some types of swords where block types you may use with them *would* work with the toggle on and off trick, but lightsabers are not one of them, you would likely see them being used like a rapier and they would be so nimble and quick that if someone tried the toggle technique it would literally be a flick of the wrist to follow through and cut them, which is going to be physically faster than you can bypass their guard and get the thing on again since, remember, your opponent is *already* thinking about what to do the instant their need to block ends, they already have a counter action lined up, once they notice your blade isn't there anymore they don't care why, they can just act immediately, *including flicking their sabre into your hand/sabre which would be even quicker* . Realistic swordfights are not turn based, you do not need to wait for your opponent to finish their action to exploit them Lastly fights with swords like rapiers are a lot to do with stepping in and out of 'measure' which is the range at which you can physically make contact with the body of the opponent and not just their blade, one can step out of measure as a way to thwart an attack and with rapiers in particular since stabbing attacks are so much quicker and harder to deal with since the blade is *so* light and fast they are basically 'meta' and you are at a disadvantage stepping fully into measure to deliver a slash, so it effectively does not matter, you likely will never be in a position to 'follow through' with a toggle on and will just get poked to death instead
One flaw with this thinking, at least if applied realistically, is that most every blow in real sword fighting is intending to hit its target. If you are letting yourself enter the enemy’s range, you are likely trying to catch their weapon, push it, and strike them, all in the same motion. If you used trakata(I think that’s what it is) you would both die. No one is trying to strike an opponents sword, their trying to strike their opponent.
From an old video on one of the old sith lords. The move is effective, but it leaves you open. They dont really show it in live action or in some animated shows, but Lightsaber attacks are really fast. Like "blink and missing everything" fast. It is why in the comics/novel, Darth Sideous killed three jedi councilors so easily. He discombobulated them with his scream, and then he attacked so fast for them to defend against. So turning off your lightsaber against an expert duelist, say Mace windu, anakin, yoda, Plo Koon, (legend) Grievous or dooku would work against you.
1. Jedi literally see into the future. 2. They could force dash away or take the advantage to get behind them while the blade is off and go for a backstab. 3. You may get hit by the swing you didn’t block and both people die.
@@panchojohnson1225 so how does that work as a defense then? if both opponents are equally skilled and have the same level of precognition, then even if an opponent has the precognitive ability to know the other person is going to turn off their lightsaber, they would have to be extremely fast, and I mean fast for even Jedi standards, and even if they do that, then the person who was turning off his lightsaber for trakata should also know that the other person has seen through him, should he not?
A decent explanation they could've tried to use is that the energy being sent through the Kyber Crystals has residual traces of energy that requires a moderate amount of time (4-5 seconds) to solidify back into its typical structure. So attempting to do this could potentially result in the Kyber Crystal shattering, or the energy being chaotic when sent out. I've also never watched Star Wars and had to look up the crystal name.
Reason it doesn’t work well is because your attach is also your defense. If you cancel he’s still swinging to block it. He’s not going to stop cuz you canceled. Idk you’d have to be the flash to move out of the while delivering the kill slash
The best answer is footsies. Getting into range of being able to do this to someone means they're in range to do it to you, or even just hit you with a strike that doesn't use this move. The only time this move is super effective is against a super defensive opponent who focuses solely on blocking your strikes rather than countering or spacing.
The problem with this discussion is that there is no set rule to how a light saber works, and that makes an enormous difference in what is or is not possible. Are they weightless blades? Then it takes no effort to move and all saber duels would involve opponents standing in front of each other rapidly moving their blades around like they're using a laser to torment the family cat. First one to move their blade out of the way (or turn it off) dies. Do they have weight and mass? Then inertia and momentum becomes and issue since deactivating your blade makes what was originally a blocking move into an unopposed cut that will hit you before your you can turn you blade back on. No response time is required either, since you were the one who turned their block into a strike, and they have no need to react, their momentum just takes their blade into you. Also, what about the variable ignition time? Sometimes sabers ignite slowly, and sometimes quickly, in each case, for no apparent reason. Nonetheless, ignition is never instantaneous. How about striking in way that forces them to block high or away from you, so that their momentum can't carry their saber into your body when you deactivate yours? That might work, right? Well, if its possible to do that, then it would be something you would learn about in Saber Defense 101, wouldn't you? Wouldn't all defensive moves be designed to keep the block as close to the body and facing the opponent as possible? This is the silliness we have to deal with when the primary component of world building is, "The Rule of Cool."
I read somewhere the lightsaber blades are attracted to each other, which is why they hit that way and hold and pull off after the strikes. So all the sword debunkers would be wrong right? because if your blade is attracted to the other when they collide, and then they turn it off, yours if falling down immediately, just like that animated skit right? and if they turn it off and just hold the hilt and turn it on, you’re more unprotected than them
@@infinite683 well them blades being attracted to together make sense if it's by magnetic field especially since everytime they clash they like tug/ pull every after strike
A one on one with both parties fighting with this style would go insane just a constant fake out trying to test the other into making a mistake and then boom one hit death
Everyone ignores the precognition ability that literally automatically reacts to any possible future. If they went for this then the foe would have been influenced to strike with a parry instead of a block. Plagueis literally was influenced by the force to not talk about Kamino and 5 seconds later Jocasta Nu walks into ear shot, the force precognition is so potent that it accounted for Jocasta Nu discouraging Obi-Wan years later and stopped him from clueing her in to Kamino existing
So usually in very intense fights like in lightsaber matches is based on the person who loose concentration fight, even just for a fraction of a second. You go to turn your lightsaber off is that fraction of a second opening that most people would need. Also, if you were a probably trained swordsmen, you're not usually stumbling over yourself. You'd never put yourself in a position to fumble over in this way.
I think the point they are making is that the strategy only works to punish defensive lightsaber users which typically blocking aggressive swings and looking for an opening, however if the opponent is more aggressive then the strategy falls apart as now you have to be more strategic with the lightsaber deactivate considering the opponent is already mid swing . There are also other things to consider asides when, but how long the deactivation and activation takes, if Jedi are as fast as you say (which they are) they may notice as soon as the blade is deactivated to disengage or go to punish for the split second between it reactivating. Charlie claims that only the one who’s swinging to have time to react but the opponent if they are a sith/jedi would have just as much time. Definitely not the GG/EZ move that’s completely foolproof.
I think they're talking about momentum. That the opponents blade doesn't stop moving where the the two would connect and would still be moving toward the body.
My only issue with the on/off thing is, in all of the examples presented, both combatants are basically planted to their spot, and Obi-Wan was leaning his weight on the saber, which just seems ill advised. Lightsaber fights are much more mobile. Could you imagine Yoda giving a shit about this technique while Beyblading an opponent to shreds?
Its funny that many authors have tried to give this some weird lore explanation, especially because its absence is easily explained. A Duel of Force users is more of a duel of fortunetellers, the one that can read the other better and farther wins. So if you try that, the other will know that you will try it, killing you before you can turn your sword on again.
With the precog that they have. I wouldn’t be surprised that moment of defenseless ESS got them killed. I could see someone like Yoda sensing treachery in his opponent
Their could be some simple solutions to this problem: 1 - When you turn off you have to wait a small window to turn on again, because of the electronics in the lightsaber or the stability of the crystal... something like that. 2 - Or, doing this technique, just like turning on and off a incandescent light, reduces and degrades the crystal the could eventually be damaged in the middle of a fight . 3 - Or, the best one, everytime you do the technique it has a chance to break/damage the crystal so you have to gamble and take your chance that could be fatal.
In the star wars vision clip as a counter couldn't the Elder follow Tajin's movements and move his lighting a few inches down, since Tajin's lightsaber isn't being used to defend is head or upper body. As a general counter couldn't someone just force push or even just move back or to the side as soon as they see someone turn off their lightsaber and start to move it at all, with moving to to the side, wouldn't now the attacker's side be open and easy for a attack. It seem it works so well, because the defender has terrible reaction time, but any lightsaber user with terrible reaction time was going to be useless anyway.
If you always maintain a distance longer than the lightsaber away from your opponent (as in 'get in and get out' tactics of closing and establishing distance in the fight), you can prevent takata, because the lightsaber still needs to reach you.
I think another problem of using the form is that its exclusively meant for one on one duels, and that the form for that is form 2. Form 2 works with mostly small and precise strikes and stabbing to hit your opponent while not really putting strength into hits. So if someone with trakata fights someone using form 2, its basically a death sentence. Form 2 would essentially make trakata mostly useless. The aspect of blocking then turning off your lightsaber to throw your opponent off balance wouldnt work due to form 2 never going for strength in the hits and focusing on balance. Youd never really even get the chance to do so in the first place due to the form 2 user continuously trying to stab you. The only time when trakata could be of use in the fight is if you are able to get the form 2 user to block, but the problem with that is that form 2 is also about out manuevering your opponent. So if they are going for a block, they are also moving back for a retreat, or moving forward for a parry. The parry is slightly altering the direction of the opponents lightsaber then counter striking, so if the lightsaber turned off, the form 2 user is then already trying to hit the trakata user because all they were trying to do is lightly tap the lightsaber then go for a stab. Another problem with trikata vs form 2, is that one of the moves of form 2 is meant entirely to strike the hand/handle of the lightsaber. So turning off your lightsaber will just make it easier to strike your hand. The final problem ill bring up of using trakata vs form 2 is that form 2 works and specializes in taking advantage of your opponents openings and using feints, if there was a form that would instantly go for the kill when the lightsaber turned off, its form 2.
People are giving a multitude of reasons down in the comments. Here are some of them summarized. 1. Every block to a strike is also a strike. If you choose to go through a lightsaber strike by turning your lightsaber off, you will get hit as well. Addendum: These duels to the death a lot of the time. Why would the duel stop after you get hit? Using Trakata would most likely allow yourself to be carved up while your opponent is also getting carved up. It's not practical. 2. Jedi and Sith are established to have some sort of precognition; the Trakata style entirely wouldn't work on them. 3. There is most likely a delay on the lightsaber or quickly turning it off and on may cause the crystal inside to degrade. 4. Sword battles are extremely quick in real life, and inferably even faster between duels with Jedi and Sith (given their connection to the Force) The attack would have go exactly how they want it to, while the two are clashing, lightsaber on lightsaber. It just wouldn't be plausible to think out the exact attack or defense your opponent is going to use, feint, then strike them with the speed you're going at. 5. Jedi say it's dishonorable and Sith say you are weak. This is the fictional reason it isn't used.
So in swordfighting, there's something known as "parrying with distance," which basically just means move away just enough so that your outside your opponents reach and but still close enough to retaliate as they are recovering from their attack.
I love how people brought this up so much that it became canon that this exact manuver is considered forbidden to stop people from talking about it, but all it did was make it even more fucking stupid because it relies entirely on both sides if this eternal and unfair conflict effectively being treated like a boxing match and not a full on war.
There are mentions in Legends (formerly Expanded Universe) that the force is pretty much required for someone to wield a lightsaber effectively. This is one of the reasons those who use lightsabers can effectively deflect a blaster shot fired from behind them, because the force is supposed to impart some limited precognition on the user. It’s also why so few non-force-users use lightsabers in general, because they can be equally dangerous to the user and to their enemy. It’s also discussed in Vector Prime, of The New Jedi Order series that the warriors of the Yuuzhan Vong lack any connection to the force, and that due to that absence, the Jedi don’t have the same advantages fighting those warriors that they have with any of the other species native to the Star Wars galaxy, which makes the Yuuzhan Vong warriors especially difficult to defeat. Ultimately I would imagine that the precognition would allow a well enough trained force user would be more than capable of sensing this was what their opponent planned and, rather than continue into the fatal strike, break the engagement and use the force to jump back to a safe distance before continuing the confrontation.
This reminds me of that scene in TMNT 2012 series, when Leonardo says something about a fair fight. Splinter whoops his ass with a pretty cheating move than asks. Splinter: was I fair? Leo: No! Splinter: Did I win? Leo immediately got the point.
I think the point is that when using trakata, a trained swordfighter will know if you're going to strike the blade, or the body just based on distancing, angle of attack, and the speed of the swing (which for lightsabers i think is negligable), i think the issue comes in as yes you might confuse the person for a second, but you have done nothing to actually stop them from swinging at you too. Trakata works when the enemy falls for your feint, but if they're never going to take your feint (as we see with many sith duelists) and just keep attacking Trakata quickly loses some of its steam because it relies on the enemy making the mistake. That being said im certain trakata could be used defensively, i just find that if you go up against someone else who has little to no skill with a sword, they'll just swing wildly at you and try and take you out before they die. It's VERY common i remember reading a French duelist's account on these "madmen" taking strikes only to hope they can land a strike too. I think a much better way of writing in Trakata to the lore would've been something like "most trakata users die before they reach the age of Master (or lord if you're a sith i guess), due to the nature of saberbattles; many would fell their opponent yes, but in the process would be felled as well. This is why we have banned the use of Trakata at the Jedi Temple"
My god did you guys not watch the forbidden move? The OP move is turning it off when the opponent goes to block. You turn it on after you’re past their block. Forgot all the balance crap if you turn it off instead of parry. They literally made a reason for NEITHER side to use it.
I hate that the writers didn't see the obvious fix in front of them. Something that would fix both "Why don't they start the fight with the powerful force moves" and "Why don't they flicker their lightsaber": have force users not only battling physically, but have them clash through the force at all times. They can only use force moves when they have an opening, and they don't flicker cause their opponent wont let them. That's all it would have took.
How fast does he think a lightsaber is able to fully turn off and on again? From the few times we have seen this move in official Star Wars cannon, it's always taken a decent amount of time; enough time that it could typically be countered against unless in a specific condition.
I think a good explanation as to why this wouldn't work is to say that Jedi are able to sense what's about to happen. Which is why their reactions are so quick. If a Jedi can tell you are about to turn your saber off, they'd be able to finish you off the second you do it.
Charlie thinking they cant move that fast but not realizing that they do move that fast. In episode 3s novel when Palpatine is first confronted for being a sith lord by windu and the others, he uses a force scream and moves on so quickly its described as a blur.
Get ready for this nerdy wall of text In Star Wars, pretty much every single lightsaber duelist has access to the force. The Force gives them access to things like superhuman strength, speed, reflexes, etc. One of the abilities they gain is a form of semi-precog that assists them in predicting their opponents in a duel. Trakata, despite seeming powerful on the surface, would only really be useful once as a surprise attack rather than a conventional dueling style against someone who knows it's coming. This is the reason why Traya's unconventional telekinetic lightsaber style fit Trakata way better since it could be used continuously at a distance.
The short with the swords explaining the technique was right, and that's something that people with none or little knowledge of fencing don't think very much of, your sword would be offense and defense, you are literally killing your own defense so you're exposed AND you'd have to pick the _perfect_ time to pull it off or else you are just open to the opponent with a still working lightsaber. You'd have to be faster and stronger than your adversary and at that point you might just win without resorting to petty tricks.
In Legends, it is a move that Jedi and sith use. However, it is incredibly advanced, and only a handful of force wielders could use it. The reason is the reflexes and force foresight that force wielders had made it incredibly difficult to catch an opponent off guard with it. Darth Kreia from The Knights of The Old Republic games was able to use it but often didn't cause the risk was too high for the reward.
I can see a counter play: What if the force user is stronger than you and doesn't need to put weight into a swing or block meaning they wont stumble if you turned the lightsaber off? Or what if the force user has multiple arms and is only using a few to stop your attack? I can see ways of combating a risky technique like that, but I can also see some benefits it can have. Also the technique seems like a mind game or surprise and would probably only work a few times before your opponent realizes what you keep trying to do.
Let's put it into perspective. Bleach already shows the lethality of this. Gin Ichimaru's zanpakutou allows him to retract and extend its blade near instantaneously. The length of the blade can be skyscrapers in length. It's essentially a sword made of gaseous metal that can solidify and reshape it to the user's need, but it's just more effective to just pierce something before anyone can react to it.
Bruh, in most situations you're gonna get both yourself and opponent kill. The aiming for the body is a really vaild reason, there is weight exchange. Even if you stab them they can finish the swing too. With a normal sword it would be less force, but lightsaber burn. If you turn it off, they can also use the force to not let you turn it on.
A person's reaction time is much faster than the lightsaber - especially if you look at the 'windup' for the lightsaber. As soon as it turns off, your opponent could respond faster than the blade could reach it's full length. Go watch how a real sword fight would play out - Swordfights are not long, drawn out slogs. It's an instant or two and it's over. Light the guy in the last video mentioned, you are not aiming for their blade, you're aiming to strike the opponent. As soon as you turn off your lightsaber - the sound of it powering down would be enough to inform the opponent that you are undefended. Which allows for a quick kill.
Its an incredibly good move, but one of the biggest issues is that its not as foolproof as it seems. In one of the Swortr games there is a jedi that uses Jekata the entire fight as he fights 2 sith lords as once. He holds himself pretty damn well against them but he does die in the end. Its not 100% win but it's definitely a combat style with strengths and weaknesses like any other lightsaber style
If you knew beforehand then this tactic doesnt work and you'll just aim for the opponent's head. If you give it a name then you don't need to sword fight and just go for the kill.
Charlie, the Jedi and Sith are literally sword masters not to mention they have precognition, so simply turning it off and turning on might work on maybe an inexperienced apprentice. But even then, there’s a fucking delay, so switching on a light saber isn’t instantaneous.
"You'd have to have crazy fast reflexes to anticipate it, you'd have to be able to see the future." This is literally something Jedi can and regularly do lmao. It's a major part of how they deflect blasterfire. Their speed and reflexes are ridiculously fast, and the Force allows them to see the future and anticipate where they'll need to block. At the end of the day this is all dependent on how quickly the blade goes in and back out again, and frankly, I don't think they're instantaneous the way people make them out to be. And when Jedi have millisecond level reflexes on constant, they have time to react. Based on the fight in The Elder, the Jedi needed a significant distraction to pull off what he was trying, otherwise the Elder would've seen what he was doing and punished him for it. That and the Elder is basically rooted in place because the exertion of using Lightning was so much that he could barely raise his other arm to strike down his opponent. If he wasn't using his lightning, the Jedi couldn't have gotten in close and pressed the hilt to his chest, because either A) he would've moved, or B) he would've cut him down before he could do it. It was a very specific set of circumstances that allowed him to pull this off.
Lightsabers can’t be turned on and off instantaneously, there is a delay and if the opponent realizes what’s going on they could easily kill you the second it’s turned off “well they’d need precognition to do that” you say? You mean literally one of the most well know and used abilities of the force? Jedi and sith use precognition constantly, that’s how they deflect blaster shots and can fight each other without one person dying in a matter of seconds
I think countering moves like that are exactly what the force is for. It’s basically a 6th sense precognition early warning system. The same way force users can anticipate projectiles that should normally be too quick to react to, they should be able to sense a dirty trick coming and sufficiently counter it by going on autopilot and letting the force take over. Ultimately, the one thing I’ve learned from decades of the movies, books, graphic novels, source guides, and message board debates, the force is essentially capable of whatever the story needs from it at that time. If the story needs a Jedi to overcome that attack, then that’s exactly what it’ll do. If the story needs a force user to die for a dramatic moment, then it won’t. Simple as that.
That's why it was just dismissed as a dishonourable technique for the jedi and cowardly for the sith. There's no need for any long explanation because if we go with the force 6th sense thing that u said, then it wouldn't really make sense for any attack to hit them. Plus, it would be lame if fights ended like that.
@@nerooyeye2196 if you’re looking to avoid long winded and convoluted explanations you probably want to avoid Star Wars in the future cuz that’s basically 99% of the discussion around it. Particularly in regards to lore. Hand wavy explanations are for trekkies lol. This one move is just the Holdo maneuver all over again. Extremely broken tactic gets introduced, the original writer has no satisfying answer for why EVERYONE doesn’t just do it, and it gets pushed to the side where we’re just not supposed to think about it. Nah, funk that.
@retsz well, I'm not someone who has read all Star Wars media ever, but I like to think that I've read and watched a lot, and sometimes it feels like the writers don't really think things through. That's one reason why I'm not really eager to get into some star wars content
@@nerooyeye2196 post Disney? I don’t blame you, but it wasn’t always terrible. Timothy Zhan’s original Thrawn trilogy, Dark Empire by dark horse comics, James Luceno’s darth plagueis, anything with Bane or Revan, even the knights of the old republic games. All that pre Disney content was done with care and are great fantasy/sci-fi stories
@retsz I don't exactly know when Disney took over Star Wars, but I do know that I stopped enjoying it at some point. You also just reminded me of why I used to love star wars so much with some of the stories you just mentioned, and Revan is definitely one of my favourite characters in Star Wars. But I have to ask, what was the first star wars content after Disney took over?
I imagine that. Unless you insta kill them with this move, they have the time to ensure mutual destruction since you’re not balanced/prepared to block your next attack? Everyone collectively agreeing not to use an attack because it has a high risk you also die perhaps. Or, if you’re swinging towards someone and they try this, your blade just keeps swinging and hits them, it’s not great vs someone on the offensive
Its not dishonorable. Its an attack meant to hurt and kill, something that the jedi are expressly taught to avoid at all costs. The Sith don't use it because it ends fights to quickly and they literally feed off the fight, it makes them stronger. Its also extremely risky, because in the moment where your blade is turned off you are without defence, which means that a precognizant wizard could just... follow through and hit you for free.
Force users are prescient they would know you were going to turn off your sabre. Victory in lightsabre duels is also a battle of the force the first to lose sight of the next move is the first to die.
My reasoning is a few things. 1. Not every battle is an outright offensive one with the goal to kill each other. In fact (when well written at least) a Jedi is usually more defensive. Cause they’re kinda like wizard monks. A Jedi usually doesn’t have murder on the mind. Typically attempting to either deescalate, pacify or escape. Whereas a sith is usually reveling in their power which they pull from hatred and fear. It’s in their best interest to not end a battle too quick because they’re basically cats playing with their food. 2. The force allows for future sight as well as guidance. We see in various media that the force gives visions of the future and can guide your hand. (Look at Luke’s training in new hope. He’s got the visor on keeping him blind but the force is guiding his hand.) neither side will use the trick because likely the other will somehow circumnavigate it. Likely by back stepping and then like I don’t know shooting lightning at your face because remember these guys usually have magic to fall back on when swords fail. 3. It’s just boring. Dragonball z has solar flare and the same thing could be asked there. Why doesn’t everyone just use that? It’s powerful. Because that’s boring and you’d be lying if you said you’d rather see that then some over the top choreographed fight. At least Star was has the curtesy of giving you a couple, somewhat flimsy, excuses as to why every battle doesn’t begin and end with this move. It is a logical fallacy. But I’d rather it be that way and get all the cool fight scenes.
Jedi: it would be dishonor to turn my lightsaber on and off real quick. "proceeds to force crush your guts without warning, crippling you for life" Ha, gotem!
You could parry the lightsaber away as it turns on. This seems like an intense form of feinting. Of course, theres mind games in that, if you know youre opponents preference to this 'trick' you could simple force him on defense instead, or hard call out the feint.
I think the key of the short is that a block is just a strike that hits your strike. If you turn off your lightsaber to circumvent it, you allow the strike to continue unobstructed.
I think Charlie understood that. He just said that when you turn off your lightsaber, you, at the same time dodge the opponent's attack. If you are a Jedi you should be able to dodge that attack.
Well dont they also use the lightsaber to block like obi-wan. It would be most effective against someone blocking not striking.
@@MarioDeppner the surprise factor and sudden imbalance could help. Imagine you are pushing against a door, but someone from the other side pulls it towards themself. You'd be pushing against nothing and lurch forward. 5:17
@@MarioDeppnernot if another Jedi/Sith is your opponent. They’re also force sensitive. You’d need to recognize that the swing they’re throwing wouldn’t hit you. With the same reaction speed that they would need to dodge the lightsaber turning back on. But, In real sword fighting, every swing is trying to hit you.
@@AidanS99biggest joke is everyone throwing away the evident fact that no, you can't use this move safely: It is the nuclear weapon of lightsaber combat. If you use it, your best bet is a double KO which is still an amazing move, but no one wants to throw away their life in an otherwise probably winable scenario. That said, strong force users would be able to move faster than you, so it would be highly uneffective vs better/stronger fighters, and you don't need it vs weaker ones. The fact "it exists in canon" named means everyone knows of it. Even if you consider it a shock move, most lightsaber uses probably could understand what is happening the moment you turn it off vs an equal opponent.
“They would have to see into the future or some shit to block that”
Charlie they literally have precognition, how do you think they block hundreds of shots coming at them 😂
Luke was blindfolded deflecting that droid with Obi-Wan, and he constantly blocks shots behind him.
they block shots by letting the force guide their movement, the bullets travel too fast for them to be able to naturally react
@@Yoda_Gaming1738so precognitive ability
@@Z3R0NU11 ultra instinct 0.5
@@Z3R0NU11 no, precognition is the ability to see or predict the future. Jedi do have this ability to some extent, but for the actual ability to block blaster bolts, precognition plays a small role. In lore its explained that the force is essentially detecting the shots and moving their bodies for them. This is why jedi must train this ability, its not as easy as their natural precognition, they must learn how to let the force guide them and not resist
I think the biggest issue is that every time we see a lightsaber in the movies, when you turn it off there's a delay where the saber recedes back into the hilt, and it's actually fairly slow. There could also be a delay before you can reactivate a lightsaber or something like that.
@@AIopekis Lightsaber activation speed varies from medium to medium and even scene to scene, cause from what I remember sometimes the Lightsaber would ignite super fast and other times it would ignite slow ( compared to other appearances ) solely for dramatic effect so it honestly depends on the plot....
That’s what it does in the series but I feel like that really doesn’t make sense considering it’s a “lightsaber” you shouldn’t have any delay
I feel like I’ve seen it before deployed near instantly before. It’s been a while since I’ve seen anything Star Wars so I may be misremembering, but I think they deploy slowly when the writers want to make a scene more dramatic.
Just use the force to turn the opponents lightsaber off
Yeah, people are applying the logic of a flashlight to it, but it’s a fictional item that has been shown to have a relatively slow growing/shrinking process when it’s turned on and off
7:18 "He'd have to be able to see into the future to predict it" I think it's pretty well established in star wars that both Jedi and the Sith can see into the future. It's how they're able to have such amazing reflexes and deflect blaster attacks. They literally see the attack before it happens, this happens constantly.
Only super powerful Jedi/sith like Yoda, Anakin, Luke, and Palpatine could look into the future
I believe it’s called precognition
I also believe it’s how they block blaster shots as well.
@@ultradeathboy literally just not true
@@ultradeathboy We're talking one or two seconds, not days or weeks. Most Jedi could see at least a few seconds into the future.
@@ultradeathboy "He can see things before they happen. It's a Jedi trait."
Vader- It is unwise to lower your defence
Charlie - You underestimate my power
Not even I would dare duel the Great Charles White.
Everyone is barking up the wrong tree. The best explanation is that lightsabers cant toggle on and off that fast. There may be some in universe technological reason that requires a short cooldown before turning back on again. Even if its just 1 seocnd that would be enough to make this impractical. And even if they could, the ignition and retraction isn't instantaneous. There is a slight delay while blade grows/shrinks that would give your opponent some time to avoid it.
Exactly, something like “the ignition mechanism only works when the lightsaber cools down a bit”, which could take even 2 seconds and it would already solve it
I mean, we've seen the speed it takes. It varies from moment to moment, but for the most part there's a noticeable period where the blade extinguishes.
Nerd
@@ad-sd-vids5332u just watched a whole video debating about starwars, we’re all nerds here
@@a_fine_edition2746 yes
The best explanation I've seen for why shit like this doesn't happen more often (and it's a total hand wavey explanation but does fit in universe) it's that they have precognizants so they would see it coming and this like any other successful move/trick could occasionally worm its way through but wouldn't be a 100% effective.
That’s fine and all but I agree with Charlie unless you are like super well known for doing this move in combat I don’t see how you wouldn’t defeat anyone. It’s offense and defense as well. You swing and they don’t block it they die, if they do block you disengage saber and reignite it when you have the surprise kill shot cause you’re already in range for it. If they are swinging at you just simply deflect and throw one in randomly and whoever you’re fighting will die very quickly in the battle. It’s an instantaneous energy blade that you have full control over when it activates and doesn’t. And the fact that’s it’s known as a cheap move that most people wouldn’t do would help in using it as a method. Honestly I wouldn’t ever use it unless I knew I was gonna die in the next hit.
@@Mythowarsok how bout this.
It’s too big a flaw in the system and from a writing perspective it’s too lazy. It should be ignored or held off and used as a final finishing blow after the fight.
It’s not asking a lot to have the audience suspend disbelief. I personally think the “cowardly/unsportsmanlike” and “precognisant future vision” arguments to be plenty good reason to not have it happen constantly.
And plus, I’d rather see an elaborate choreographed fight using lightsabers and force powers than some guy instantly win. There’s just some stuff you accept because it’s a story meant to entertain.
It’s like dragon ball. Why doesn’t everyone just use solar flare all the time? Cause it’s boring. Yes it’s a flaw, but at least Star Wars gives you a couple flimsy reasons as to why they aren’t doing it.
Edit: actually you know what the “cowardly/unsportsmanlike” argument works great. Jedi are basically monks and when written well fight defensively and with the goal of pacify or escape. So they shouldn’t even be considering instant kill moves.
And sith draw power from fear and hatred. By drawing a fight out it gives them more chance to revel in their own might and bring their enemies low because sith are basically cats playing with their food.
I mean, Cal Kestis did it in his fight
So you're saying jedi have The Peter Tingle™️
@@handlebarsmustache precisely that
This forbidden lightsaber technique is the equivalent of kicking your opponent in the groin
"He'd have to be able to see in the future to predict it" Charlie forgot they are using the force and that's quite literally how it works
Most fighters aren't blocking for the sake of it but also attacking. The saber vanishing for a second is too dangerous when the Force is involved.
The only way it could be "debunked", is if they use the force to essentially sense what the other person is going to do. Almost like a spidey sense and be able to react that way. Or even using the force to somehow "freeze" the other combatant and move out of the way.
"Spidey sense" like Force awareness is a staple of Jedi and Sith.
That’s a good point, but then how does a mfer like Grevious, who’s not a force user, pull off defeating many Jedi masters in duels?
@@Dyrock666 I want to elaborate on this. Grevious was a Kaleesh before getting cyborgified, a race of powerful warriors. You don't need the Force to beat a Jedi. The Mandalorians have a history of warring with the Jedi and winning using only their weapons and combat skills.
Grevious was also trained by Dooku, who was once one of the greatest swordsmen in the Jedi Order. A man who knows the ins and outs of Jedi combat.
@@Azure_Fire that’s true. Mainly the “learning from Dooku” part which is a substantial advantage
Each force user has a force field around them that makes other force users incapable of using the force on them. That is why during fights they don’t just use the force to rip the lightsaber out their hands or nock em over.
The counters to the Trakata technique would be to become offensive or extremely defensive by dodging a lot. Knowing your opponent in the way how they fight will also provide good intel in how to counter this technique.
This technique does not just come with advantages. Like everything else in life, there are disadvantages. The con of this technique is that it assumes that the defender will always try to parry or block. Against an opponent who utilizes footwork, knowledge about the opponent should not struggle with the technique.
Another counter would be to stop following the trend of fighting like it's fencing, just smacking the blades (which of course is to look flashy and entertaining) and just stick with straight forward accurate attacks. Using the jedi force would also be a good way to create space to allow more reading of the opponent and time to think of other ways to counter the forbidden technique.
If the Trakata technique becomes widely used, then it would become a standard of fighting which would no longer possess the great advantage it once had when jedis barely used it.
Trakata is a feint. If the opponent doesn't contest the feint then the user would immediately be punished. If the feint is executed with incorrect timing or against the wrong attack the user is also punished. If you remove your attacks ability to make contact then you always lose the clash. It's a useful technique but it isn't core to swordplay mechanics.
Nah the ultimate move is turning your opponents on while it’s on his belt or pocket lol
Anakin does something like that in the unfinished Clone Wars episodes and he uses the force to make it start spinning, which cuts up two guys.
@@217adaptiveperspectivehe does that to people that just like stole it tho right?
@@haydenrhead7692
Yeah, during the Utapau arc that got cut
He also starts doing a hallway scene where he's shooting everyone with a Blaster and styling on them in it
@@217adaptiveperspective didn't they make Ezra do something similar?
@@DefectiveButchr
Yeah, on a Stormtrooper
Star Wars: "It's too OP guys, it would be so lame to spam it."
Brandon Sanderson writing Ishar in Stormlight 4: "I'm about to toggle this sword on and off so mfing fast"
Charlie is wrong. The other guy who didnt turn it off already is swinging at you. He is the one with the advantage. You dont need superspeed; but you would in order to pull it off.
Why do people believe all forward momentum just disappears when two swords clash with each other?
Well the fact the momentum doesn't disappear is bad for the person turning off the lightsaber, as the strike would run through unobstructed. And swords don't tend to just cross like the movies, if your blade is in a bind you're not going to just push against it, you're probably trying to deflect it.
Btw if two swords did clash, that would take the momentum out of the strike. Two equal forces cancelling each other out.
this depends on how lightsabers work, but if it was a physical blade retracting within milliseconds (like Gin's Shikai in Bleach), I'd assume that some of that momentum would be transferred back to the hilt and thus push either the saber or the user back or off balance which would negate the advantage. The momentum cannot just disappear into nothingness.
Just goddamn turn it off while side dodging the opponent falling off balance, all while hitting them from the side
@@abethebabelincoln7960the opponent doesn't need to only be blocking. If the opponent attempts to block once, you can just do the move. He only need to make this mistake once.
I think that the logical conclusion to this has to be that, using lightsaber you have to never go for a nonoffensive deflection. You have to press the attack constantly.
@@abethebabelincoln7960 but the issue is, this is not how they actually fight in the shows. They do do blocks and deflections thus its still broken in univers.
Edit: Plus, that also means that if your opponent wanted, he could almost guarantee both your deaths. He throws a swing, you throw yours to counter and pressure, he flicks his lightsaber to avoid yours, you both die. So even being absolutely aggressive still puts you in a bad place.
Funny thing is, Yoda has a perfect counter to this technique since his small body plus constantly moving fighting style that has him jump into lightsaber clashes to keep on moving make it so if anyone did try this against him, theyd miss and die cause they HAVE to always keep their lightsaber on against him or they'll die due to how fast he is plus how little there is to hit him, I just thought it was a fun thought
The point of the debunk video is that, in a swordfight, you're not often *just* moving to block, you're still threatening your enemy with your own weapon by, say, keeping the point on them to prevent them from advancing. If you advance and try to trakata someone who is holding a good line, you will end up walking right into their blade. You're saying just move out of the way, but it's way faster for the defender to just keep their point aimed at your face or torso than it is for you to move your entire body and keep your weapon on target. Best case scenario, if you're fighting somebody with similar skills, is that you both end up dead or maimed in the exchange. If you deactivate too soon, you get skewered by the counter before you reactivate. If you deactivate too late, they've already moved you off line anyway.
In Star Wars, you see a lot of overhead cuts that get caught and bound a defender raising their blade perpendicular to the attack -- so the defender catches the attack in the center of their blade with the point facing to the side. In that kind of fight, trakata works perfectly. In real-world fencing, though, you don't catch attacks that way, you kind of rotate your guard up to catch the top half of their blade with the lower half of your own, moving their weapon to one side while keeping your point aimed at their face/torso. You can (and frequently will) be striking as part of this motion. Trakata is way more of a gamble in that situation, because the defender isn't 1) defending and then 2) striking, they are just striking in a way that also deflects. Trakata in that situation is just removing your only defense from in front of the opponent's weapon, and even if you reactivate after, you have to eat whatever counter they've started to get to that position.
In real life sword fighting, you usually want to block in a way that gives you a line of attack. If you just have to pure block, you're already in a disadvantage state. So in real life, the counterplay is that when they turn off their lightsaber, your block just hits them because your block is also an attack. Which is exactly what the SellswordArts clip shows (great swordfighting channel btw).
I like how the book the Order of Two explains how Jedi/Sith are moving so quick you are doing fighting techniques hoping you hit. Watching Yoda fight, try timing turning off on him.
the ultimate anti lightsaber move is using convencional guns
Facts
Shotgun
Oof spelling bro that one was rough
If they can stop super heated plasma going the speed of light with the force, I don't see why they couldn't stop birdshot.
you mean the guns that use regular bullets that are way slower than blaster bolts?
I think it would work as the aggressor because you’re the one applying pressure and the person on defense would be watching your lightsaber trying to meet blows.
I believe it’s cannon that Vader changes the length of his light saber during fights to have a similar effect that may be in the EU
I don't know if Vader ever did, but a quick adjustable blade length was Corran Horn's gimmick.
I remember seeing that somewhere too. Maybe the comics?
@@Wintercideyeah Vaders lightsaber has a switch on it that can make the blade shorter or longer like Dookus
"This really effective technique is dishonorable..."
-Proceeds to lose an entire space war despite being superhuman psychics with auto aim, bullet deflection abilities, the ability to turn laser blades into crop harvesters etc...
The better excuse was that you can't turn on the lightsaber fast enough to make it work. They should probably just leave it alone... the grunt writers at Disney couldn't handle the holdo maneuver, they certainly can't cope with this.
He thinks this is the most broken thing ever but he should look into the sniper rifles powered by kyber 💀
Tbf, its a one time use thing sort of thing due to the sniper not being able to withstand being used more than like 10 times (And thats being generous) due to the gun not being able to withstand all that energy being fired all at once a lot of times before it just breaks
@@user-kq5ci7ol8o true true, still sick as hell though lol
@@user-kq5ci7ol8o Z-6 baton was also just a prototype, capable of taking full blows from a saber
@@dyermakerr I wish there were more viable weapons other then a saber (Force users as a concept is already part to blame, they are so strong). Z-6 is one of the only viable weapons against a saber... other than specific armor and shields.
"It's a sign of weakness" - the person who died to it
"Youd have to see into the future to stop him" Thats exactly the role force sensitivity plays in lightsaber combat haha, its like the sharingan
The main difference in points I think was that Charlie is referring to using the technique AFTER already sabers and doing those extended blocks they love in the franchise.
The short seemed to think that the goal was to avoid connecting with the opponent's saber at all, which of course wouldn't stop the saver zooming at your head if you don't put something in front of it.
It would be like dropping your sword to pull out a gun. A proper swordsman could definitely react in the split-second you were unprotected to kill you.
“This guy would have so be significantly faster”, “he’d have to see into the future”.
Force sensitive people **can** increase their speed, have a slight amount of precognition, and even feel the intentions of another force user.
If you’re so desperate to use this against a lightsaber user to pull something this risky, chances are they’re going feel that desperation and anticipate it. The only time this would work is if you’re going up against someone untrained in the force, and at that point you could pull the weapon out of their hands.
Sith: To rely on a trick like that shows weakness!
Also the Sith: I’ll fight this Jedi with two light sabers while they only have one.
Retraction and reignition isn't consistent throughout the series. Sometimes they retract slowly and come out slowly. Watch how slowly Darth Maul's lightsaber comes out before the Qui-Gon fight amd the speed in which Luke's lightsaber comes out a cou0le times. The speed can be measured by the the user's ability to use the force in some cases in the books. Essentially it doesn't always come out instant and lightsaber don't fire consistently enough to make it viable in combat.
I hear you disagree with my take on the on/off lightsaber move...
Wanna do a live/collab and have a friendly debate about it? 😁
I have extremely strong opinions about this, but the short version is that if you assume both combatants are actually fighting to kill/hit the opponent in a realistic way it just would not work. You are never trying to strike the opponent's blade in a real sword duel unless you are trying to block, guard, or redirect it. If the opponent *does* disengage their sabre you then follow through your blocking action into an immediate strike which is *already* an extremely common move in real actual sword fighting, and you would obviously then hit them first in this case. It just would not work if the fighting were realistic.
I think a lot of this discussion comes from seeing Star Wars or 'movie' swordfights where it's basically just 'showfighting' and you see lots of clashes blade-on-blade and it really distorts how fights actually go when they're realistic. You are trying, with every attack, to hit and kill the opponent. You don't throw a strike or start an exchange unless you think you may strike their body with the end result. Even when blocking you are never blocking with the intent just to take the hit and see what's next, you are trying to exploit their attack for an opening to strike back with. There are some types of swords where block types you may use with them *would* work with the toggle on and off trick, but lightsabers are not one of them, you would likely see them being used like a rapier and they would be so nimble and quick that if someone tried the toggle technique it would literally be a flick of the wrist to follow through and cut them, which is going to be physically faster than you can bypass their guard and get the thing on again since, remember, your opponent is *already* thinking about what to do the instant their need to block ends, they already have a counter action lined up, once they notice your blade isn't there anymore they don't care why, they can just act immediately, *including flicking their sabre into your hand/sabre which would be even quicker* . Realistic swordfights are not turn based, you do not need to wait for your opponent to finish their action to exploit them
Lastly fights with swords like rapiers are a lot to do with stepping in and out of 'measure' which is the range at which you can physically make contact with the body of the opponent and not just their blade, one can step out of measure as a way to thwart an attack and with rapiers in particular since stabbing attacks are so much quicker and harder to deal with since the blade is *so* light and fast they are basically 'meta' and you are at a disadvantage stepping fully into measure to deliver a slash, so it effectively does not matter, you likely will never be in a position to 'follow through' with a toggle on and will just get poked to death instead
One flaw with this thinking, at least if applied realistically, is that most every blow in real sword fighting is intending to hit its target. If you are letting yourself enter the enemy’s range, you are likely trying to catch their weapon, push it, and strike them, all in the same motion. If you used trakata(I think that’s what it is) you would both die. No one is trying to strike an opponents sword, their trying to strike their opponent.
From an old video on one of the old sith lords. The move is effective, but it leaves you open. They dont really show it in live action or in some animated shows, but Lightsaber attacks are really fast. Like "blink and missing everything" fast. It is why in the comics/novel, Darth Sideous killed three jedi councilors so easily. He discombobulated them with his scream, and then he attacked so fast for them to defend against.
So turning off your lightsaber against an expert duelist, say Mace windu, anakin, yoda, Plo Koon, (legend) Grievous or dooku would work against you.
1. Jedi literally see into the future.
2. They could force dash away or take the advantage to get behind them while the blade is off and go for a backstab.
3. You may get hit by the swing you didn’t block and both people die.
How do they win over the other person if everyone with the force has precognition?
@@manuelsputnik It’s only a little bit into the future and Just because you can see the future dosn’t mean you can stop.
@@panchojohnson1225 so how does that work as a defense then? if both opponents are equally skilled and have the same level of precognition, then even if an opponent has the precognitive ability to know the other person is going to turn off their lightsaber, they would have to be extremely fast, and I mean fast for even Jedi standards, and even if they do that, then the person who was turning off his lightsaber for trakata should also know that the other person has seen through him, should he not?
A decent explanation they could've tried to use is that the energy being sent through the Kyber Crystals has residual traces of energy that requires a moderate amount of time (4-5 seconds) to solidify back into its typical structure. So attempting to do this could potentially result in the Kyber Crystal shattering, or the energy being chaotic when sent out.
I've also never watched Star Wars and had to look up the crystal name.
Reason it doesn’t work well is because your attach is also your defense. If you cancel he’s still swinging to block it. He’s not going to stop cuz you canceled. Idk you’d have to be the flash to move out of the while delivering the kill slash
if you do this against a experienced force user its instant death for yourself. the time it would take for your saber to re ignite you would be dead
The best answer is footsies. Getting into range of being able to do this to someone means they're in range to do it to you, or even just hit you with a strike that doesn't use this move. The only time this move is super effective is against a super defensive opponent who focuses solely on blocking your strikes rather than countering or spacing.
The problem with this discussion is that there is no set rule to how a light saber works, and that makes an enormous difference in what is or is not possible. Are they weightless blades? Then it takes no effort to move and all saber duels would involve opponents standing in front of each other rapidly moving their blades around like they're using a laser to torment the family cat. First one to move their blade out of the way (or turn it off) dies. Do they have weight and mass? Then inertia and momentum becomes and issue since deactivating your blade makes what was originally a blocking move into an unopposed cut that will hit you before your you can turn you blade back on. No response time is required either, since you were the one who turned their block into a strike, and they have no need to react, their momentum just takes their blade into you. Also, what about the variable ignition time? Sometimes sabers ignite slowly, and sometimes quickly, in each case, for no apparent reason. Nonetheless, ignition is never instantaneous. How about striking in way that forces them to block high or away from you, so that their momentum can't carry their saber into your body when you deactivate yours? That might work, right? Well, if its possible to do that, then it would be something you would learn about in Saber Defense 101, wouldn't you? Wouldn't all defensive moves be designed to keep the block as close to the body and facing the opponent as possible? This is the silliness we have to deal with when the primary component of world building is, "The Rule of Cool."
is there gonna be a patch in the star wars universe where lightsabers have a cooldown now
I read somewhere the lightsaber blades are attracted to each other, which is why they hit that way and hold and pull off after the strikes.
So all the sword debunkers would be wrong right? because if your blade is attracted to the other when they collide, and then they turn it off, yours if falling down immediately, just like that animated skit right? and if they turn it off and just hold the hilt and turn it on, you’re more unprotected than them
I don't know if that's true, but it does hold some weight. As per canon lightsabers are not lasers. They're plasma held in place by a magnetic field.
@@infinite683 well them blades being attracted to together make sense if it's by magnetic field
especially since everytime they clash they like tug/ pull every after strike
A one on one with both parties fighting with this style would go insane just a constant fake out trying to test the other into making a mistake and then boom one hit death
Everyone ignores the precognition ability that literally automatically reacts to any possible future. If they went for this then the foe would have been influenced to strike with a parry instead of a block. Plagueis literally was influenced by the force to not talk about Kamino and 5 seconds later Jocasta Nu walks into ear shot, the force precognition is so potent that it accounted for Jocasta Nu discouraging Obi-Wan years later and stopped him from clueing her in to Kamino existing
So usually in very intense fights like in lightsaber matches is based on the person who loose concentration fight, even just for a fraction of a second.
You go to turn your lightsaber off is that fraction of a second opening that most people would need.
Also, if you were a probably trained swordsmen, you're not usually stumbling over yourself. You'd never put yourself in a position to fumble over in this way.
I think the point they are making is that the strategy only works to punish defensive lightsaber users which typically blocking aggressive swings and looking for an opening, however if the opponent is more aggressive then the strategy falls apart as now you have to be more strategic with the lightsaber deactivate considering the opponent is already mid swing . There are also other things to consider asides when, but how long the deactivation and activation takes, if Jedi are as fast as you say (which they are) they may notice as soon as the blade is deactivated to disengage or go to punish for the split second between it reactivating.
Charlie claims that only the one who’s swinging to have time to react but the opponent if they are a sith/jedi would have just as much time. Definitely not the GG/EZ move that’s completely foolproof.
I think they're talking about momentum. That the opponents blade doesn't stop moving where the the two would connect and would still be moving toward the body.
My only issue with the on/off thing is, in all of the examples presented, both combatants are basically planted to their spot, and Obi-Wan was leaning his weight on the saber, which just seems ill advised. Lightsaber fights are much more mobile. Could you imagine Yoda giving a shit about this technique while Beyblading an opponent to shreds?
Its funny that many authors have tried to give this some weird lore explanation, especially because its absence is easily explained.
A Duel of Force users is more of a duel of fortunetellers, the one that can read the other better and farther wins.
So if you try that, the other will know that you will try it, killing you before you can turn your sword on again.
With the precog that they have. I wouldn’t be surprised that moment of defenseless ESS got them killed. I could see someone like Yoda sensing treachery in his opponent
Their could be some simple solutions to this problem:
1 - When you turn off you have to wait a small window to turn on again, because of the electronics in the lightsaber or the stability of the crystal... something like that.
2 - Or, doing this technique, just like turning on and off a incandescent light, reduces and degrades the crystal the could eventually be damaged in the middle of a fight .
3 - Or, the best one, everytime you do the technique it has a chance to break/damage the crystal so you have to gamble and take your chance that could be fatal.
In the star wars vision clip as a counter couldn't the Elder follow Tajin's movements and move his lighting a few inches down, since Tajin's lightsaber isn't being used to defend is head or upper body.
As a general counter couldn't someone just force push or even just move back or to the side as soon as they see someone turn off their lightsaber and start to move it at all, with moving to to the side, wouldn't now the attacker's side be open and easy for a attack.
It seem it works so well, because the defender has terrible reaction time, but any lightsaber user with terrible reaction time was going to be useless anyway.
If you always maintain a distance longer than the lightsaber away from your opponent (as in 'get in and get out' tactics of closing and establishing distance in the fight), you can prevent takata, because the lightsaber still needs to reach you.
I think another problem of using the form is that its exclusively meant for one on one duels, and that the form for that is form 2. Form 2 works with mostly small and precise strikes and stabbing to hit your opponent while not really putting strength into hits. So if someone with trakata fights someone using form 2, its basically a death sentence. Form 2 would essentially make trakata mostly useless. The aspect of blocking then turning off your lightsaber to throw your opponent off balance wouldnt work due to form 2 never going for strength in the hits and focusing on balance. Youd never really even get the chance to do so in the first place due to the form 2 user continuously trying to stab you. The only time when trakata could be of use in the fight is if you are able to get the form 2 user to block, but the problem with that is that form 2 is also about out manuevering your opponent. So if they are going for a block, they are also moving back for a retreat, or moving forward for a parry. The parry is slightly altering the direction of the opponents lightsaber then counter striking, so if the lightsaber turned off, the form 2 user is then already trying to hit the trakata user because all they were trying to do is lightly tap the lightsaber then go for a stab. Another problem with trikata vs form 2, is that one of the moves of form 2 is meant entirely to strike the hand/handle of the lightsaber. So turning off your lightsaber will just make it easier to strike your hand. The final problem ill bring up of using trakata vs form 2 is that form 2 works and specializes in taking advantage of your opponents openings and using feints, if there was a form that would instantly go for the kill when the lightsaber turned off, its form 2.
People are giving a multitude of reasons down in the comments. Here are some of them summarized.
1. Every block to a strike is also a strike. If you choose to go through a lightsaber strike by turning your lightsaber off, you will get hit as well. Addendum: These duels to the death a lot of the time. Why would the duel stop after you get hit? Using Trakata would most likely allow yourself to be carved up while your opponent is also getting carved up. It's not practical.
2. Jedi and Sith are established to have some sort of precognition; the Trakata style entirely wouldn't work on them.
3. There is most likely a delay on the lightsaber or quickly turning it off and on may cause the crystal inside to degrade.
4. Sword battles are extremely quick in real life, and inferably even faster between duels with Jedi and Sith (given their connection to the Force) The attack would have go exactly how they want it to, while the two are clashing, lightsaber on lightsaber. It just wouldn't be plausible to think out the exact attack or defense your opponent is going to use, feint, then strike them with the speed you're going at.
5. Jedi say it's dishonorable and Sith say you are weak. This is the fictional reason it isn't used.
So in swordfighting, there's something known as "parrying with distance," which basically just means move away just enough so that your outside your opponents reach and but still close enough to retaliate as they are recovering from their attack.
I love how people brought this up so much that it became canon that this exact manuver is considered forbidden to stop people from talking about it, but all it did was make it even more fucking stupid because it relies entirely on both sides if this eternal and unfair conflict effectively being treated like a boxing match and not a full on war.
There are mentions in Legends (formerly Expanded Universe) that the force is pretty much required for someone to wield a lightsaber effectively. This is one of the reasons those who use lightsabers can effectively deflect a blaster shot fired from behind them, because the force is supposed to impart some limited precognition on the user. It’s also why so few non-force-users use lightsabers in general, because they can be equally dangerous to the user and to their enemy. It’s also discussed in Vector Prime, of The New Jedi Order series that the warriors of the Yuuzhan Vong lack any connection to the force, and that due to that absence, the Jedi don’t have the same advantages fighting those warriors that they have with any of the other species native to the Star Wars galaxy, which makes the Yuuzhan Vong warriors especially difficult to defeat. Ultimately I would imagine that the precognition would allow a well enough trained force user would be more than capable of sensing this was what their opponent planned and, rather than continue into the fatal strike, break the engagement and use the force to jump back to a safe distance before continuing the confrontation.
This reminds me of that scene in TMNT 2012 series, when Leonardo says something about a fair fight. Splinter whoops his ass with a pretty cheating move than asks.
Splinter: was I fair?
Leo: No!
Splinter: Did I win?
Leo immediately got the point.
I think the point is that when using trakata, a trained swordfighter will know if you're going to strike the blade, or the body just based on distancing, angle of attack, and the speed of the swing (which for lightsabers i think is negligable), i think the issue comes in as yes you might confuse the person for a second, but you have done nothing to actually stop them from swinging at you too. Trakata works when the enemy falls for your feint, but if they're never going to take your feint (as we see with many sith duelists) and just keep attacking Trakata quickly loses some of its steam because it relies on the enemy making the mistake. That being said im certain trakata could be used defensively, i just find that if you go up against someone else who has little to no skill with a sword, they'll just swing wildly at you and try and take you out before they die. It's VERY common i remember reading a French duelist's account on these "madmen" taking strikes only to hope they can land a strike too. I think a much better way of writing in Trakata to the lore would've been something like "most trakata users die before they reach the age of Master (or lord if you're a sith i guess), due to the nature of saberbattles; many would fell their opponent yes, but in the process would be felled as well. This is why we have banned the use of Trakata at the Jedi Temple"
My god did you guys not watch the forbidden move? The OP move is turning it off when the opponent goes to block. You turn it on after you’re past their block. Forgot all the balance crap if you turn it off instead of parry. They literally made a reason for NEITHER side to use it.
I hate that the writers didn't see the obvious fix in front of them. Something that would fix both "Why don't they start the fight with the powerful force moves" and "Why don't they flicker their lightsaber": have force users not only battling physically, but have them clash through the force at all times. They can only use force moves when they have an opening, and they don't flicker cause their opponent wont let them. That's all it would have took.
Almost like they would have to use the force to sense it
How fast does he think a lightsaber is able to fully turn off and on again? From the few times we have seen this move in official Star Wars cannon, it's always taken a decent amount of time; enough time that it could typically be countered against unless in a specific condition.
I think a good explanation as to why this wouldn't work is to say that Jedi are able to sense what's about to happen. Which is why their reactions are so quick. If a Jedi can tell you are about to turn your saber off, they'd be able to finish you off the second you do it.
Charlie thinking they cant move that fast but not realizing that they do move that fast. In episode 3s novel when Palpatine is first confronted for being a sith lord by windu and the others, he uses a force scream and moves on so quickly its described as a blur.
Unsportsmanlike in a battle to the death is ridiculous
You turning your saber back on isn't faster than the lightsaber of you opponent that's already mid swing hitting you
considering the receiving end is cautious of this, they'd probably be able to deflect it, I mean they literally deflect bullets
Get ready for this nerdy wall of text
In Star Wars, pretty much every single lightsaber duelist has access to the force. The Force gives them access to things like superhuman strength, speed, reflexes, etc. One of the abilities they gain is a form of semi-precog that assists them in predicting their opponents in a duel. Trakata, despite seeming powerful on the surface, would only really be useful once as a surprise attack rather than a conventional dueling style against someone who knows it's coming. This is the reason why Traya's unconventional telekinetic lightsaber style fit Trakata way better since it could be used continuously at a distance.
"the difference between cowards and cunning is if you win" ~ my old coach
The short with the swords explaining the technique was right, and that's something that people with none or little knowledge of fencing don't think very much of, your sword would be offense and defense, you are literally killing your own defense so you're exposed AND you'd have to pick the _perfect_ time to pull it off or else you are just open to the opponent with a still working lightsaber.
You'd have to be faster and stronger than your adversary and at that point you might just win without resorting to petty tricks.
In Legends, it is a move that Jedi and sith use. However, it is incredibly advanced, and only a handful of force wielders could use it. The reason is the reflexes and force foresight that force wielders had made it incredibly difficult to catch an opponent off guard with it. Darth Kreia from The Knights of The Old Republic games was able to use it but often didn't cause the risk was too high for the reward.
I can see a counter play:
What if the force user is stronger than you and doesn't need to put weight into a swing or block meaning they wont stumble if you turned the lightsaber off?
Or what if the force user has multiple arms and is only using a few to stop your attack?
I can see ways of combating a risky technique like that, but I can also see some benefits it can have.
Also the technique seems like a mind game or surprise and would probably only work a few times before your opponent realizes what you keep trying to do.
Let's put it into perspective. Bleach already shows the lethality of this. Gin Ichimaru's zanpakutou allows him to retract and extend its blade near instantaneously. The length of the blade can be skyscrapers in length. It's essentially a sword made of gaseous metal that can solidify and reshape it to the user's need, but it's just more effective to just pierce something before anyone can react to it.
Big difference there is the extra reach that he has, being safe from counterattacks.
Bruh, in most situations you're gonna get both yourself and opponent kill. The aiming for the body is a really vaild reason, there is weight exchange. Even if you stab them they can finish the swing too. With a normal sword it would be less force, but lightsaber burn. If you turn it off, they can also use the force to not let you turn it on.
"Sheathing the sword" wheel of time style
true. only really works if your enemy is blocking and not both in a clash
Predit the original trajectory of your opponent’s swing bro i don’t see what’s hard about it, and just side dodge or back off for a bit.
Your opponent isn’t going to exclusively swing for your body they’re gonna have to block too, that’s when you use this trick
That pony tail guy is notorious for always having a combative stance on everything related to swords.
I think you are underestimating the reaction speed of competent Jedi, who remember, block laser beams.
"Never overextend your thrust. You are vulnerable... and off balance!" - Ramirez.
A person's reaction time is much faster than the lightsaber - especially if you look at the 'windup' for the lightsaber. As soon as it turns off, your opponent could respond faster than the blade could reach it's full length.
Go watch how a real sword fight would play out - Swordfights are not long, drawn out slogs. It's an instant or two and it's over. Light the guy in the last video mentioned, you are not aiming for their blade, you're aiming to strike the opponent. As soon as you turn off your lightsaber - the sound of it powering down would be enough to inform the opponent that you are undefended. Which allows for a quick kill.
The Elder was blocking lightning not a saber, and had a delay in reaction only cause off the Jedi’s dishonor.
Its an incredibly good move, but one of the biggest issues is that its not as foolproof as it seems. In one of the Swortr games there is a jedi that uses Jekata the entire fight as he fights 2 sith lords as once. He holds himself pretty damn well against them but he does die in the end. Its not 100% win but it's definitely a combat style with strengths and weaknesses like any other lightsaber style
If you knew beforehand then this tactic doesnt work and you'll just aim for the opponent's head. If you give it a name then you don't need to sword fight and just go for the kill.
Charlie, the Jedi and Sith are literally sword masters not to mention they have precognition, so simply turning it off and turning on might work on maybe an inexperienced apprentice. But even then, there’s a fucking delay, so switching on a light saber isn’t instantaneous.
I feel like the only type of Jedi that can get away with using a move like that and not feel affected by morals are the Grey Jedi.
"You'd have to have crazy fast reflexes to anticipate it, you'd have to be able to see the future."
This is literally something Jedi can and regularly do lmao. It's a major part of how they deflect blasterfire. Their speed and reflexes are ridiculously fast, and the Force allows them to see the future and anticipate where they'll need to block. At the end of the day this is all dependent on how quickly the blade goes in and back out again, and frankly, I don't think they're instantaneous the way people make them out to be. And when Jedi have millisecond level reflexes on constant, they have time to react.
Based on the fight in The Elder, the Jedi needed a significant distraction to pull off what he was trying, otherwise the Elder would've seen what he was doing and punished him for it. That and the Elder is basically rooted in place because the exertion of using Lightning was so much that he could barely raise his other arm to strike down his opponent. If he wasn't using his lightning, the Jedi couldn't have gotten in close and pressed the hilt to his chest, because either A) he would've moved, or B) he would've cut him down before he could do it. It was a very specific set of circumstances that allowed him to pull this off.
imagine a purple lightsaber wielding rouge jedi using Trakata form and slug throwers as a sidearm
Lightsabers can’t be turned on and off instantaneously, there is a delay and if the opponent realizes what’s going on they could easily kill you the second it’s turned off “well they’d need precognition to do that” you say? You mean literally one of the most well know and used abilities of the force? Jedi and sith use precognition constantly, that’s how they deflect blaster shots and can fight each other without one person dying in a matter of seconds
I think countering moves like that are exactly what the force is for. It’s basically a 6th sense precognition early warning system. The same way force users can anticipate projectiles that should normally be too quick to react to, they should be able to sense a dirty trick coming and sufficiently counter it by going on autopilot and letting the force take over. Ultimately, the one thing I’ve learned from decades of the movies, books, graphic novels, source guides, and message board debates, the force is essentially capable of whatever the story needs from it at that time. If the story needs a Jedi to overcome that attack, then that’s exactly what it’ll do. If the story needs a force user to die for a dramatic moment, then it won’t. Simple as that.
That's why it was just dismissed as a dishonourable technique for the jedi and cowardly for the sith. There's no need for any long explanation because if we go with the force 6th sense thing that u said, then it wouldn't really make sense for any attack to hit them. Plus, it would be lame if fights ended like that.
@@nerooyeye2196 if you’re looking to avoid long winded and convoluted explanations you probably want to avoid Star Wars in the future cuz that’s basically 99% of the discussion around it. Particularly in regards to lore. Hand wavy explanations are for trekkies lol.
This one move is just the Holdo maneuver all over again. Extremely broken tactic gets introduced, the original writer has no satisfying answer for why EVERYONE doesn’t just do it, and it gets pushed to the side where we’re just not supposed to think about it. Nah, funk that.
@retsz well, I'm not someone who has read all Star Wars media ever, but I like to think that I've read and watched a lot, and sometimes it feels like the writers don't really think things through. That's one reason why I'm not really eager to get into some star wars content
@@nerooyeye2196 post Disney? I don’t blame you, but it wasn’t always terrible. Timothy Zhan’s original Thrawn trilogy, Dark Empire by dark horse comics, James Luceno’s darth plagueis, anything with Bane or Revan, even the knights of the old republic games. All that pre Disney content was done with care and are great fantasy/sci-fi stories
@retsz I don't exactly know when Disney took over Star Wars, but I do know that I stopped enjoying it at some point. You also just reminded me of why I used to love star wars so much with some of the stories you just mentioned, and Revan is definitely one of my favourite characters in Star Wars. But I have to ask, what was the first star wars content after Disney took over?
I imagine that. Unless you insta kill them with this move, they have the time to ensure mutual destruction since you’re not balanced/prepared to block your next attack? Everyone collectively agreeing not to use an attack because it has a high risk you also die perhaps.
Or, if you’re swinging towards someone and they try this, your blade just keeps swinging and hits them, it’s not great vs someone on the offensive
Its not dishonorable. Its an attack meant to hurt and kill, something that the jedi are expressly taught to avoid at all costs. The Sith don't use it because it ends fights to quickly and they literally feed off the fight, it makes them stronger.
Its also extremely risky, because in the moment where your blade is turned off you are without defence, which means that a precognizant wizard could just... follow through and hit you for free.
Force users are prescient they would know you were going to turn off your sabre. Victory in lightsabre duels is also a battle of the force the first to lose sight of the next move is the first to die.
I imagine that because light savers have a delay timer of 10 seconds when they are brought back to the hilt to prevent moves like this from happening.
My reasoning is a few things.
1. Not every battle is an outright offensive one with the goal to kill each other. In fact (when well written at least) a Jedi is usually more defensive. Cause they’re kinda like wizard monks. A Jedi usually doesn’t have murder on the mind. Typically attempting to either deescalate, pacify or escape. Whereas a sith is usually reveling in their power which they pull from hatred and fear. It’s in their best interest to not end a battle too quick because they’re basically cats playing with their food.
2. The force allows for future sight as well as guidance. We see in various media that the force gives visions of the future and can guide your hand. (Look at Luke’s training in new hope. He’s got the visor on keeping him blind but the force is guiding his hand.) neither side will use the trick because likely the other will somehow circumnavigate it. Likely by back stepping and then like I don’t know shooting lightning at your face because remember these guys usually have magic to fall back on when swords fail.
3. It’s just boring. Dragonball z has solar flare and the same thing could be asked there. Why doesn’t everyone just use that? It’s powerful. Because that’s boring and you’d be lying if you said you’d rather see that then some over the top choreographed fight. At least Star was has the curtesy of giving you a couple, somewhat flimsy, excuses as to why every battle doesn’t begin and end with this move.
It is a logical fallacy. But I’d rather it be that way and get all the cool fight scenes.
Jedi: it would be dishonor to turn my lightsaber on and off real quick.
"proceeds to force crush your guts without warning, crippling you for life" Ha, gotem!
You could parry the lightsaber away as it turns on. This seems like an intense form of feinting. Of course, theres mind games in that, if you know youre opponents preference to this 'trick' you could simple force him on defense instead, or hard call out the feint.