CCS vs Tesla's NACS | EV Fast Charging Infrastructure Explained
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Today, there are more great non-Tesla EVs hitting the market than ever before, however, no matter how great they are on paper and on the road, 90% of them still share this issue, their reliance on the Combined Charging System (CCS) network and as a result, their reliability when road-tripping.
0:00 - The Situation
1:17 - Apple (Tesla) vs Android (CCS)
1:58 - Locating Chargers
2:22 - Charging Etiquette
3:09 - Plug&Charge OR Member Rates
4:15 - Reliability
4:38 - Meeting with Electrify America
8:24 - Conclusion
Simply put, Tesla Superchargers are easier to find with more locations and more stalls at each location than CCS chargers; they are also easier to use with more nimble connectors and simplified billing, and finally, they are more reliable.
It seems like several automotive manufacturers are aware of these issues with companies like Rivian investing in their own "Adventure Network", Ford launching their "Charge Angels" program, and Lucid working around the problem entirely by offering over 500 miles of range.
Fast-charging should be simple and reliable with current charging availability and capacity integrated into vehicle navigation systems. Everyone should be able to activate Plug&Charge at the lowest rates available. Chargers should be reliable with redundancy built into every system.
In this video, we break down all the specific ways that Tesla Supercharging is currently the premier method of fast-charging in the hopes that this feedback can make the charging experience better for everyone!
Did we miss anything in our video? Let us know in the comments below and we'll answer as many questions as we can.
*Corrections*
1. In addition to the Mustang Mach-E, Porsche Taycan, & Lucid Air, the Mercedes Benz EQS also offers Plug & Charge.
2. You can technically charge a Tesla on CCS but current adaptors cap your charge rate at 50kW
3.For $50/year, Mach-E owners can join the Blue Oval Network and get 25% off their EA charge sessions while keeping Plug&Charge. It’s a step in the right direction but still not streamlined as it should be, especially for customers with multiple EVs.
#ElectrifyAmerica #Tesla #Charging
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The Kilowatts | @KLWTTS
MB01MTSFVFCIH39c - Авто та транспорт
This video is 100% correct about my experience with Mach-E and Electrify America. I must admit I was not expecting so many broken or derated chargers and I regret getting a CCS EV right now.
ford has partnered with tesla now
@@GamingTrivia1113he posted that a year ago…
The rep sounded like a politician
Talked around the issue without a real answer. Thanks for bringing this forward. The Midwest is miles behind the west coast on this
Keep up the good work
It’s just so easy to walk up to a Tesla Supercharger, plug in and walk away without any hassle!
Great video BTW.
First time actually understanding the issue. I've seen so many bad charging road trip video reviews that it convinced me to buy a Tesla. I think in the future if there is another reliable charging network, I would pick a different car like the Taycan or Rivian.
I’m happy to hear you enjoyed our video and that it helped you. We’re big proponents for EVs in general but the details like the lack of plug&charge for some new vehicles just doesn’t make sense. All new cars should have that capability!
Just yesterday someone asked me about my non-Tesla ev charging experience on long road trips and I told him I honestly don’t know. With limited time and the hassle of kids, i usually just take our phev minivan for long road trips. Just don’t want to deal w the hassle of pre planning charging sessions and waiting for my ev to charge.
Based on test drive we would have purchased the Mache. After looking at charging networks we bought the Tesla, very quirky car with plenty of issues, but we have twice the charging options.
@@KLWTTS if you're effectively saying all newer cars should come with the compatibility to plug & charge at all the different networked stations, including Tesla, for a simpler customer experience, I agree. Reality is it's unlikely manufacturers will enable competing competitors vehicles easy access(plug & charge) unless it's government mandated like the standard port, CCS, in Europe from what I understand. I imagine current stations needing to be retrofitted with the necessary adapters and some sort of system that combines info from all the available automakers... Who's really gonna do that without pressure from government?
And that's exactly what tesla has done....
This is a great video. You really identified a bunch of issues I had not thought of.
Great and informative assessment! Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Thanks for watching!
Just put two sensors in the cable. Redundancy.
Hey EA, instead of focusing on putting a dozen more chargers in Milpitas, how about installing some along Highway 99 and Highway 120 so people in the Central Valley can actually charge cars? Modesto California has a population of over 200k and there isn't a single EA DCFC. The only EA unit in the entire CITY is a solar one at the Kaiser Hospital-- which is always in use by the the Tesla's owned by the Doctors.
I thought it was Electrify America - not Electrify Bay Area or Los Angeles!
Love this channel
🥰
Great video!!
I don't think many realize how much these stations cost. There's a reason many aren't 100% perfect especially with utilization rates so low. It's a huge risk for many companies spending this much time & money with little return right now
True and great point! This infrastructure is good and it’s getting better
Even though Electrify America is very expensive compared to other CCS networks like ChargePoint, EVGO, Blink, etc., it’s still cheaper thank most superchargers in my experiences.
That's exactly why we are so lucky to have Elon Musk! He spends his own Tesla money to build a charging infrastructure that works!! The other OEM don't. They want the government to build it for them and it will suck.
Do yourself a favor and buy a Tesla. By the way Tesla is THE most American made car, period.
Thanks for a very informative video Ryan. We just purchased the beautiful red Mach E Premium! I totally get the frustration now with public charging! Our home charger will be installed this week and mostly, that will be our go to energy source. We have faith that the system will improve over the next few years, no doubt! 😎 Meanwhile, we’re having a great time in our very stylish Mustang!
Now you can look forward to charging on the supercharger network. 🎉
Amazing video! 🇺🇸🇧🇷
I successfully made a 1700 mile road trip in my Nissan LEAF charging at Electrify America, EVgo, and Chargepoint. The EVgo chargers had CCS, Chaedmo, and Telsa! The EA Chademo machine at Dayton OH was out-of-service, but there was a working Chargepoint 10 miles away. The EA at Indianapolis had a bad card reader, but I called them on the phone and they were able to get it started remotely.
The Nissan is a great car. I hope some 3rd party eventually comes out with a charge plug modification before Chademo fades out in the charge station mix.
Very insightful and objective on charging. I think Electrify America will strive to make their platform even better! Especially since every other EV depends on them!
Nice and objective comment, ignoring the facts of the EV industry 🤦♂🤦♂
'objective' ha!
Says a Ford, VW, GM, Toyota, etc etc dealer..... (Do yourself a favor and don't buy a non Tesla BEV)
We use adapter for Tesla To CCS1, thats great superpower
😁
Got all the options!
@@KLWTTS better to take from both worlds;-) Thats really great!
After putting 150,000 miles across 30+ states in my Tesla over the past 3 years, the superchargers are getting pretty frustrating. A lot of Tesla drivers like to pretend superchargers don’t face a lot of the same issues as CCS but they really do. I’d love to see you talk about price a little bit as as well. Electrify America is by far the most expensive CCS network but is still cheaper than most superchargers I’ve come across. We have a CCS adapter for our Tesla and after driving 70,000 miles last year, we spent an average of $0.33 per kW for supercharging but only $0.23 per kW for CCS. A little bit of that has to do with how many free CCS stations we charge at in our Tesla.
Frustrating how? I've not experienced any issues with Superchargers in my 35k miles. They are consistently reliable, consistently available, and consistently fast. As for pricing, it varies a lot, but in my comparative studies EA stations are always more expensive. Yes, if you can find free CCS charging that's great, but not really so relevant. The other consideration is that a whole lot of CCS stations are 50KW, which while a lot better than level 2, isn't really fast enough for long distance travel. Just completed yet another run between Jackson, WY and the SF Bay area...250KW Superchargers all the way. Zero issues. Fast, cheap, easy.
@@dangrass I use CCS very often in my Tesla and used CCS for the 100,000 miles I drove my Chevy Bolt coast to coast. Your 35k miles using supercharging is but a very small sample size for you to compare against. I’ve driven 3 EV’s over 300,000 miles using a combination of CCS, CHAdeMO and Supercharging. No doubt that superchargers on the west coast are great. I’ve done that 900 mile drive in my Bolt from Wyoming to SF. It’s a pretty easy drive for most all EV’s with a 200+ mile range.
Do me a favor though, open PlugShare, filter it to only show 200+ kWh stations and then look at the middle of the country. You’ll see gigantic gaps in the Supercharger network with next to no gaps in the CCS network. Have you seen what this Porsche Taycan recently did using CCS’s high powered 350 kWh stations?
newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2022/products/porsche-taycan-coast-to-coast-charging-guinness-world-record-wayne-gerdes-27225.html
I think both technologies have their ups and downs and I do rather enjoy the simplicity of the Superchargers in my Model X but you also can’t ignore how amazing the CCS network is and the advantages it has over the superchargers. There are SO many free CCS stations and even the ones that aren’t free are pretty cheap outside of the EA stations which are the most expensive. Come find me on my Instagram Zues1086. I post a lot about EV’s there.
Hoping Tesla opens their network to non-Tesla EVs soon. Not only would it be a great source of revenue for Tesla, but ideally accelerate the transition to sustainable energy that much more.
Agreed
They have in Norway and France. I think the big issue will be charging port location
You asked and Tesla answered. NACS is opening to others, but now both Ford and GM have signed up to use their chargers directly with both the port and API.
The damn ccs is so heavy (and bulky) that when I plug in my Chevy bolt in at E.A. that I can’t get a good enough connection to even start a charge because the weight pulls down enough to break a good connection.
SuperChargers won't be quite as seamless once they allow CCS cars to hook up but the many station operators could make it much easier by installing payment system on each stall just like the gas pumps. Gas stations would be in the same mess if they each had to communicate with each car to determine the vehicle the pump was in, how fast it could fill its tank, and the tank capacity. It will evolve but it's much more complex outside a closed ecosystem like Tesla has (for now).
Owned Teslas 9 years, last one being a M3P. Never any issues with Supercharging- I now have the MME GT and thankfully charge at home. I have tested 4 local EA chargers and the experience was a total joke…
That's really disappointing, hopefully it gets better soon!
T shirt is dope! Ordered ✅
Tesla connector/charging network designed by engineers to achieve the best EV experience, CCS connector/charging network designed by the ICE marketing department to discourage the adoption of EV's.
NACS charging standard designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption.
CCS charging standard designed by the ICE manufactures marketing department to discourage EV adoption, trying to keep EV’s from catching on. Looks like that plan has failed.
Great video. Want to open the garage to a ID.4 or Mach-E but the network is holding me back.
The ID.4 and Mustang Mach-E are still great cars though!
3:40 With the new BlueOval Charge Network Membership, Ford EVs can have Plug&Charge AND the EA membership rate
This wasn’t my experience, can you help me find evidence of this so I can issue a correction?
Here’s the closest I got: www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/public-charging/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-my-ford-electric-vehicle-in-public/
@@KLWTTS My comments keep getting deleted b/c of the link, but Ford created the BlueOval Network Membership for $50/year which gives members the EA Membership rate with Plug&Charge. You'll have to google it or ask Ford.
I wonder if the Supercharger “cool towel” trick would be a way to work around the de-rating issue with charger handles that get hot,
I don't think so - they say sensors themselves are broken.
I've Supercharged my Model 3 many, many, many times in all sorts of weather and have never run into an issue no matter the temperature. The cool towel thing comes from a You Tube guy who believes this makes a difference. With all due respect, I'm not so sure his engineering acumen is at par with that of Tesla's power delivery engineering folks.
The big problem with both these networks is availability. Both are only located along interstate highways and have no locations along US or state highways anywhere in the US, with only a couple of exceptions. They are both essentially useless to us here in the middle of the country, where it may be 250-400 miles between those interstate highways. Those numbers are way beyond the capabilities of most EV’s on the market today. Yes, you can charge your car at home for the most part, but what do you do when you take a road trip? Drive 75 miles out of your way to charge when you find there are no locations along the shortest route to your destination? I don’t think so. There needs to be thousands more charging locations for both of these networks before owning an EV makes any sort of sense around here. Great video, well done!
So the liquid cooled cable design they rolled out is proving to be unreliable. Contributing to this problem is manufactures have refused to standardize on Port location so the cables need longer than they should. These longer cables are bigger points of failure and provide more resistance / heat wasting electricity.
In my experience the CCS Combo plug EA rolled often does not complete the handshake initially and has to be re-seated in the port.
Sounds like EA has made this way to confusing for the average consumer. I plugged my Tesla into a Supercharger for the first time yesterday and it couldn't have been easier. I backed in, plugged in, and was on my way in 20 minutes. The CCS connector looks huge and cumbersome, and the charging kiosks look uninviting and confusing. Thus far I've used ChargePoint and Tesla chargers. Both are easy but the Supercharger is super easy.
I just. Add to the. Channel can you send me link on how the charging machine works from inside guts /
This is why I went with Tesla at this moment. The second the CCS network gets better, that very same second I'll consider switching from Tesla. I don't like being hooked to one brand only, a lot of other EVs right now are equal or better than teslas.
You can get a Tesla CCS adapter. And use the CCS network.
what's the car at @2:47
Looks like checkmate for Tesla NACS.
Tesla CCS Type 1 Adapter from Tesla Korea can apparently do 100 kw
Great video Ryan. One question that I have is with legacy car manufacturers getting into the EV game, like Ford for example. Why don’t they build their own stations at every dealership. Yes it will be expensive, but the reliability will build customer confidence. I heard a stat (which I don’t know if it is true) that in America you are never more than 200 miles from a Ford dealership in any direction. Regardless if that’s accurate or not they are everywhere. If every dealer made their own, it would build a better network for everyone. Has this been discussed
Excellent 💡
You'd be taking up space for new customers.
good to see tesla opening charger to other
Electrifying America and all the other charging stations around the world should make it possible to pay for charging with the bank card like the way you do at any normal gas station.
3:22 You forgot the Mercedes EQS. It also has Plug&Charge
Added to the description, thank you!
This is not a fair comparison. You are comparing apples to oranges. A good portion of the price of a Tesla goes to build the charging stations. Electrify America gets most if not all its money from charging customers who use their chargers. Tesla right now in the US only has to worry about being compatible with their own cars designed and manufactured by them. Therefore Tesla can control where the charging ports are going to be on their cars. This is why Tesla charging cables are so short. Electrify America has to have longer charging cables because they are open to all car manufactures and since they don't control the software of those car they have to make sure their charges can communicate with cars designed by many different manufactures. Yes they are all using a standardize communications protocol but Electrify America has no control over the internal programming each car manufacturer designs. Yes Electrify America is going through the same early stages Tesla did I am sure when they were developing their chargers. I can say Electrify America is getting better and more reliable. Their newest charger seem to be a huge improvement in reliability. Once Tesla opens its own charging network to non Tesla EVs I am sure they will start to run into the same problems that Electrify America has. I am sure the biggest first complaint will be the short length of the charging cables. A question I did have is did Telsa make their charger connector design available for other manufactures to use? My guess is they did not. I really like to know how well Tesla's connectors will hold up on longer thicker charging cables with the extra stress caused by the increased weight. You might find the longer heavier cables are naturally going to be harder to maneuver and a beefier CCS connector might actually be more preferable in the long run.
Ford is sending Technicians out to make sure the charging stations are working properly..Plus Ford And Tesla are going together so the charging stations are interchangeable..
Wait, Ford is sending techs to other company charging stations they are partnered with to repair them? That sounds weird and unlikely.
If the future of ev's is ccs charging and not the nacs network, i want nothing to do with ev's. i have a chevy volt and i rarely need to charge outside my home. occasionally ive tried charging at a chargpoint location, but it never works because the locking emchanism is always REMOVED so my car never charges with them! fortunately, i dont NEED them to us emy car. if im out of power, i just drive on gas and fill up if need be. but since i cant do that with just any charger, i will literally never own a non-tesla vehicle unless nacs becomes the standard charge port and network used on all cars.
I did 4400 miles on Electrify America without a single issue (videos of the whole trip on my channel). I’ve had more issues on Superchargers. Neither are perfect and Tesla has more coverage, but EA’s network is very good.
I’m glad to hear you’ve had such great experiences with EA. After some significant issues we experienced during Charge Across America, I decided it was time to address those issues and talk about some of the other nuances that make supercharging more convenient and simple
I’ve had nothing but excellent experiences on Tesla’s Supercharging Network. What kind of issues have you experienced?
Hating on Tesla again? No question Tesla has the best network. You’re sounding like Biden.
@@benpossehl I’ve encountered many Tesla stations with slow charging, broken handles, stalls broken completely, etc
I had the opposite experience. Ea was terrible, glitchy and many down stations. I experienced one Tesla supercharger that was inop.
Most people I know who want a non Tesla ev are waiting for a more reliable network.
Tesla. Plug in and walk away. CCS, well, does this even work? oh crap the connector cable bent due to the weight of the plug and I didn't charge for 15 minutes. etc etc. This is a VHS v BetaMax moment, and once again it looks like VHS is going to win.
Did anyone else notice the god awful ergonomics of plugging in the Lucid, horrible.
👀
Electrify America should put the Chademo 50 kw connector and the CCS1 connector split so BOTH can be used as the same time.
They should! Even if it meant that cable the CCS would only provide 100kW, it would help discourage others from parking in that stall
The guy was saying alot of nothing really wanted him to not beat around the bush about problems they know customers are having daily ... Really makes me want to trade in my 2 e golfs and get a telsa idec what year 😅 just give me one
lots of excuses from EOA - there's just issue after issue nation wide...and havent' see any improvements at all
what it sounds like to me is the charge network is coming along singing a song, time, and engineers will fix all the bugs.
This video didn't give the answer to the question, of why Tesla superchargers are reliable, the cables are light and flexible. What is the reason we can use Tesla Superchargers to charge none Tesla EVs?
Its proprietary. Better question is why bother with CCS standard when its not only inferior but all these vendors are garbage at managing them?
Electrify Stupidity 😂😂😂
Tesla first
Time to buy Tesla shares
Dang, usually UA-camrs just have one silly facial expression for a clickbaity thumbnail, Ryan went for 2 of himself, gutsy move, let’s see if it’s gonna pay off. 😂🤣
🧐😂
You have no idea how proud of this thumbnail Ryan was LOL 😂
@@benpossehl 😂😂
Fact:
I was born and raised in Germany and am now living in the US (specifically Austin, Texas), and since I bought my Tesla X, I will never buy an EV with CCS (1&2) & CHADEMO charging port, as they are not just UGLY, but they are also OLD TECHNOLOGY, HEAVY & BULKY.
I wish that EVERY EV manufacturer will use TESLA charging port (NACS) and be done with it, period.
Have a great day to y'all!
You got your wish, NACS has now won.
Heavy and so heavy when laid down dropped they break.
but
Guess what even if SAE has adopped NACS the goverment is forcing Tesla and all charge companies to have CCS and NACS on all chargers.
No
CCS to NACS will not do you any good. All chargers must have now defunk CCS
Everyone rejoice, CCS is dead!
The Taycan isn't a practical body design. It's really big, really heavy, and has a whole lot less interior space than a Tesla S...actually not even a Tesla 3.
Teslas can charge with CCS in the rest of the world...just not in the US....yet.
The integrated route planning and charging infrastructure of the Tesla world is enormously better than what exists outside of the Tesla world.
Will Electrify America ever equal Superchargers? Doubtful. Will Electrify America even exist once the dieselgate subsidy runs out? Maybe.
The simple fact is that Tesla's integrated approach with the car and the charging infrastructure is just superior to third party solutions that Porsche and others must rely on. What makes matters worse for Porsche and others is the underlying economics of the situation. When you buy a Tesla you are effectively buying into a charging network, but when you buy a Taycan you aren't. The implication is clear....Superchargers availability will continue to increase exponentially (they apparently plan to triple the size of the network in a couple of years), while EA might not even survive.
I suspect that in the end it's more likely that you will end up charging your Taycan at a Supercharger than at an EA station....and regretting the fact that you bought a Taycan.
The EA guy is so full of shit. Fix your chargers, and own it.
This is hilarious 😂 TSLA perfect EA bad 😞. This is I love my PS2 wife getting a EV6 because 1 cars are better looking 2 99% of the time charge at home 3 I've don't trips in bolt on EA 4 I don't believe in sheeplike behavior that leads to monopolies but keep at it Elon with tweet at you soon I'm sure 😃
I rarely watch videos and did not watch this one. I was not about to spend time watching a cutesy introduction when I wanted information. I much prefer getting information via reading; it is faster and if I don't understand a sentence I can quickly read it again.