You've said a bunch of stuff I have yet to learn, but I think I understood the gist of it. Thanks for the video, I gather navigation of the subject wasn't to broach.
I bought VMUG last year and migrated from Proxmox to ESXi with vCenter. I'm still working on improving my setup to include vSAN, but so far I'm really happy I made the change. Proxmox still has a lot of quirks. The lack of centralized management plane for multiple non clustered hosts is a deal breaker for me. For my use case I want to live-migrate VMs to hosts that are powered on only when I need the extra capacity, or when I'm taking down one of the 24/7 hosts down for maintenance. As far as I know there's still no supported way to do that in Proxmox.
@@oleksii.lopasov I’d extend it for another year if they finally decide to provide updates. If not… there are other ways to get a working key. I’m still staying with vSphere 8 for now, but I’m also on the lookout for alternatives. Based on their latest update and posts, XCP-ng seems like they may be going in an interesting direction. Proxmox still lacks the enterprise-ness of ESXi, and no single management plane that doesn’t require clustering the hosts. In the last 5 months since my original post I’ve added and removed over 10 hosts and a few clusters from my vCenter. I like to play around with things and I love this flexibility.
Great video. I recently set up a proxmox cluster and compared it to vmware and I found 2 negative points. Since proxmox has evolved to version 8, I don't understand how it is possible that there isn't a more orderly way to manage virtual machines like vmware and folders do, none of the proxmox options are useful for effectively managing a cluster with 30+ virtual machines. There is an option that is “Folders View” where you cannot manage folders... The other point regarding is containers, what proxmox offers is useless since most of the developments in pipe end in a container in a registry which offers the ease of making a "pull" of the image. In this case the container starts from scratch and everything has to be built from scratch. Proxmox seems promising but needs to polish certain aspects to be a definitive replacement.
You are misunderstanding Proxmox container feature, specifically docker or OCI style containers with LXC. While they're built around the same kernel features, they're different beasts with different use cases. LXC is meant to be a lightweight alternative to full VMs with some caveats, like using the host's kernel, and they're managed similarly to VMs and unlike docker / oci containers.
The question is "are you going to keep using the free version of ESXi with no more updates?" Only other way is to pay for it, and for home use I can't see that many can afford to do that as a hobby.
If someone was using the free ESXi license, then there's really no point in staying with VMware, However I think that most people using ESXi in their labs use it with vCenter, so they probably paid for VMUG, or got the keys in a different way. For those people nothing's changed. You can still get VMUG for 210$ per year. That's like 17.5 bucks per month.
ESXI is starting to remove support for Mellanox ConnectX-3 in newer versions. Also the CPU support is limited to newer features. Like I have a Dell R720xd with E5-2695v2 will not be supported in the newer versions. For this reason I'm moving to Proxmox. My backbone is built on 40GbE network.
Just a dumb question. VMware workstation is coming with a built-in server. At least that was so until version 15. Is it possible to declare it as an esxi storage in Proxmox to import old VMware workstation machines?
Probably going to take heat for this, but after deploying Proxmox in production, I am not very happy with it. Its great for home lab, however its not as resilient as ESXi. Cancelling ongoing tasks either takes a lot of time or just never goes through. A force shutdown of a VM, made it not boot up anymore, because the hard drive was mechanical, and the boot up check was taking too long for its own taste, and failing. Had to do lots of reasearch to find a fix, whixh is through CLI, an disable a disk check process. Over a decade with ESXi, had to use the CLI maybe once. Maybe for a Linux background admins its easier, however even reading their forums, and employee responses it feels like a not fully baked product, at least for enterprise. Alos the built in backup is full only, and 3rd party, agentless backup is sparce.
+1 I am no pro, but I messed with xcp-ng and would like to know more about pcie passthrough mainly for video cards... I went toward proxmox as it seems to have much more support on that subject.
Did you save the install file? Or were you lazy like me and assumed you would always be able to download the then current version... cue horror movie music...
Still Proxmox is not considered as enterprise grade server virtualization platform by companies like Gartner, question is will you use it in Enterprises for production systems hosting?
I want to delve into vmware as want to learn. My question if if i want2d to run 6-8 vms simultaneously to replicate a work environment is that possible? Do i need to pay for this? The vms will be running vare mimimum stuff. Also would i need to get a server ir can i use a gaming pc with dual boot?
About to finally shut down my R710 running ESXi and build a new machine with newer hardware and Proxmox. I like ESXi better and the fact its an enterprise product but not happy with the limitations running the free version and not willing to spend money on it at this time for say vMUG. Hopefully I like the change and it wont be hard to move my ESXi VM's to Proxmox. The issue is that the free version may not have the same output as the paid version to use the new import wizard, it probably uses the same API as snapshots and backups that is restricted on free. But I do have full copies of my virtual machines disks and configuration files because I do my backups via SFTP and just grab a full copy of the machine while its powered off.
My current dilemma is old hardware that can't run the ESXi past v6 (I have VMUG). I looked into Proxmox and couldn't run that on my old hardware either. The only way I was able to get anything going again was with xcp-ng; while not my favorite it has my small number of homelab vms running again after importing the .ova's I exported.
Proxmox was the only one where I can just fire up a VM and that VM would have its own private IP assigned by my router automatically. I couldn’t make that work at all anywhere else. Proxmox is the best for students wanting to learn and small business owners who’re just starting out.
the esxi image can be downloaded for free.. Licenses can be... aquired from creative places. And im running an esxi on my old gaming computer with realtek nic. Just need to modify the esxi image.. theres a ps1 script for that and lots of tutorials. im gonna set up a proxmox now because i dont want to buy server grade hardware all the time. GPU passthrough seem to work better there as well.
Proxmox has its own backup solution built in better than any third party solution. By contrast ESXI doesnt making third party solutions a necessity. Proxmox has better storage support if you ask me. It has built in ceph and glusterfs support. Vmware is way behind here as it doesnt support such.
Yep. XCP-NG has it all. But it does not have ZFS and all the goodies that come with it. If XCP-NG had ZFS, I would consider it, but having both the Hypervisor and storage in one machine/place/config is hard to give up!
I am suggesting Client to use Proxmox if they were using VMware ROBO licenses, but if they are serious about virtualization for the moment they'd better stay with VMware.
I'll make a perhaps funny comparison, saying "serious about virtualization" in that context is like telling an taxi driver or a bus driver, or a taxi company or a bus company that if they want to be serious about driving they should all buy a fleet of Ferrari or some fancy fleet of coaches. When the suitable tool for the job of most tasks that they care about is a fleet of Prius or even Tesla (I don't know any city busses brands :)) ). Virtual box or Truenas is "not" being serious about virtualization, not proxmox. Even hyper-v, if used incorrectly is "not" serious about virtualization, but I wouldn't think about putting proxmox in that bucket :)
@@LiviuPavel I agree with you but vmware prices have changed a lot, companies using VMware ROBO for branches where maybe they were virtualizing just 4 or 5 VM (access control, shared printing...) before Broadcom were spending 500 euro/year of license for each node, now they should be spending 5000 /year.... in my lab at home I still use VMware, not Proxmox, but, sometimes you have to find a compromise. :)
ESXI doesn't support Realtek NICs. This was a main point I started using Proxmox in my Homelab. Proxmox will rule the virtualization in near future. LXC is addon over VMware.
Bonjour, obliger d'acheter une carte réseau Intel de serveur, pour pouvoir installer Esxi 8. Heureusement Amazone est là ! ! Mais c'est vrai que la configuration et l'utilisation Esxi est plus facile qu'avec Proxmox.
Another great video however I prefer for my home enviroment to resemble what I see in the real world. Most likely I will be moving over to Hyper-V or Xen.
Dude, if you’re going to do an honest comparison, drop the “paid” features of esx when compared to proxmox… you sound like a Broadcom shill! I agree that ESXi was the gold standard for a long time but Broadcom shot themselves in the foot and nobody other than enterprises with existing VMware instances should consider this platform moving forward
Proxmox would the the ultimate Hypervisor, IF it was a true APPLIANCE! Needing manual changes in the shell? Edit boot loader options in order to enable pass-through!? Once they get a ONE FILE backup/restore for 100% of the configuration, THEN, I will consider it. I dislike Proxmox GUI too, so not a real appliance or solution for me. Moved from ESXi to TrueNAS Scale and very happy with it. Within this year, TN will get all the little features that are missing, making it an all services/options/features server/machine. How long will it take you to restore a Proxmox server, 100%, if the boot/OS drive fails??? With TN: 10 min to install, 3 min to upload config file, 3 min reboot.
omg, PVE vs ESXI Video Number 1001…. Do sth new, like comparing the speed with benchmarks on same hardware… and not the millionth video about the same thing.
XCP-NG > Proxmox when it comes to solid performance - Had so much random performance issues with proxmox 🐌 that I cannot recommend it. ESXi is the best but not when you factor in cost.
I am no pro at all... do you mess around with video passthrough using older server hardware, like R730xd and Tesla P100, Quadro 4000? I went toward proxmox because I see plenty of support for this, but it has issues to overcome here and there.
@@TDHobbies I have a Lenovo P workstation and use a Quadro M2000 for pass through. The exact same hardware seems to work perfectly under xcp-ng and Esxi prior to migration. It seems easier to break the debian os under proxmox.
You've said a bunch of stuff I have yet to learn, but I think I understood the gist of it.
Thanks for the video, I gather navigation of the subject wasn't to broach.
I bought VMUG last year and migrated from Proxmox to ESXi with vCenter. I'm still working on improving my setup to include vSAN, but so far I'm really happy I made the change. Proxmox still has a lot of quirks. The lack of centralized management plane for multiple non clustered hosts is a deal breaker for me. For my use case I want to live-migrate VMs to hosts that are powered on only when I need the extra capacity, or when I'm taking down one of the 24/7 hosts down for maintenance. As far as I know there's still no supported way to do that in Proxmox.
how are you getting updates?
@@ovvon6481 VMUG gets updates. It costs a few hundred per year but is extremely worth it. We will see if it stays that way
Dude, what you gonna do after your license expires? As far as I know it’s not lifetime, but just for one year
@@oleksii.lopasov I’d extend it for another year if they finally decide to provide updates. If not… there are other ways to get a working key. I’m still staying with vSphere 8 for now, but I’m also on the lookout for alternatives. Based on their latest update and posts, XCP-ng seems like they may be going in an interesting direction. Proxmox still lacks the enterprise-ness of ESXi, and no single management plane that doesn’t require clustering the hosts. In the last 5 months since my original post I’ve added and removed over 10 hosts and a few clusters from my vCenter. I like to play around with things and I love this flexibility.
Great video. I recently set up a proxmox cluster and compared it to vmware and I found 2 negative points.
Since proxmox has evolved to version 8, I don't understand how it is possible that there isn't a more orderly way to manage virtual machines like vmware and folders do, none of the proxmox options are useful for effectively managing a cluster with 30+ virtual machines. There is an option that is “Folders View” where you cannot manage folders...
The other point regarding is containers, what proxmox offers is useless since most of the developments in pipe end in a container in a registry which offers the ease of making a "pull" of the image. In this case the container starts from scratch and everything has to be built from scratch.
Proxmox seems promising but needs to polish certain aspects to be a definitive replacement.
You are misunderstanding Proxmox container feature, specifically docker or OCI style containers with LXC. While they're built around the same kernel features, they're different beasts with different use cases. LXC is meant to be a lightweight alternative to full VMs with some caveats, like using the host's kernel, and they're managed similarly to VMs and unlike docker / oci containers.
Mate I just discovered your channel! Love it!!!
The question is "are you going to keep using the free version of ESXi with no more updates?" Only other way is to pay for it, and for home use I can't see that many can afford to do that as a hobby.
If someone was using the free ESXi license, then there's really no point in staying with VMware, However I think that most people using ESXi in their labs use it with vCenter, so they probably paid for VMUG, or got the keys in a different way. For those people nothing's changed. You can still get VMUG for 210$ per year. That's like 17.5 bucks per month.
you can just crack it lol
@@Desyncccstill it's not worth than proxmox 😂😂
@@durgeshkshirsagar116 it definitely is lol, performance is way better and u dont need cpu pinning or anything.
@@Desynccc esxi isn't good at all.
ESXI is starting to remove support for Mellanox ConnectX-3 in newer versions. Also the CPU support is limited to newer features. Like I have a Dell R720xd with E5-2695v2 will not be supported in the newer versions. For this reason I'm moving to Proxmox.
My backbone is built on 40GbE network.
Can you migrate a vcenter vm?
Just a dumb question. VMware workstation is coming with a built-in server. At least that was so until version 15. Is it possible to declare it as an esxi storage in Proxmox to import old VMware workstation machines?
What is your personal choice for a home lab??
proxmox for sure
Probably going to take heat for this, but after deploying Proxmox in production, I am not very happy with it. Its great for home lab, however its not as resilient as ESXi. Cancelling ongoing tasks either takes a lot of time or just never goes through. A force shutdown of a VM, made it not boot up anymore, because the hard drive was mechanical, and the boot up check was taking too long for its own taste, and failing. Had to do lots of reasearch to find a fix, whixh is through CLI, an disable a disk check process.
Over a decade with ESXi, had to use the CLI maybe once. Maybe for a Linux background admins its easier, however even reading their forums, and employee responses it feels like a not fully baked product, at least for enterprise. Alos the built in backup is full only, and 3rd party, agentless backup is sparce.
I know proxmox is free and is very good but is it used in business/enterprises for professional use?
Would be nice if you could also do a comparison with xcp-ng with both XO (build by sources) and XOA (they have a free offering available).
+1 I am no pro, but I messed with xcp-ng and would like to know more about pcie passthrough mainly for video cards... I went toward proxmox as it seems to have much more support on that subject.
So i have a free esxi license. Does it just mean no more updates for it? Use it for home lab
Did you save the install file? Or were you lazy like me and assumed you would always be able to download the then current version... cue horror movie music...
Still Proxmox is not considered as enterprise grade server virtualization platform by companies like Gartner, question is will you use it in Enterprises for production systems hosting?
to these companies, free=jank.
they can't comprehend the idea that something free can be better than something expensive.
Good video, altohough Esxi was my go to for home & work, they killed the industry so everyones now moving over to Hyper-v OR Proxmox.
I want to delve into vmware as want to learn. My question if if i want2d to run 6-8 vms simultaneously to replicate a work environment is that possible? Do i need to pay for this? The vms will be running vare mimimum stuff. Also would i need to get a server ir can i use a gaming pc with dual boot?
ProxMox is the winner across the board, in pretty much all categories - it's not even close!
because youve done extensive analysis or just because nothing else has been tried? Cause is definitely not true, starting with its UX...
About to finally shut down my R710 running ESXi and build a new machine with newer hardware and Proxmox.
I like ESXi better and the fact its an enterprise product but not happy with the limitations running the free version and not willing to spend money on it at this time for say vMUG.
Hopefully I like the change and it wont be hard to move my ESXi VM's to Proxmox.
The issue is that the free version may not have the same output as the paid version to use the new import wizard, it probably uses the same API as snapshots and backups that is restricted on free.
But I do have full copies of my virtual machines disks and configuration files because I do my backups via SFTP and just grab a full copy of the machine while its powered off.
please keep us informed.
My current dilemma is old hardware that can't run the ESXi past v6 (I have VMUG). I looked into Proxmox and couldn't run that on my old hardware either. The only way I was able to get anything going again was with xcp-ng; while not my favorite it has my small number of homelab vms running again after importing the .ova's I exported.
congrats with +50K subscribers
Very informative! Thanks!
I'm hoping and waiting for a FreeBSD Bhyve solution, something with a slick interface.
Another great video, thanks!
I'm no expert in the field but I'm using both and going full Proxmox when I can. Been doing cool stuff with GPU passthrough lately
Краткое резюме видео. Есть много денег бери vmware, не хочешь платить ставь proxmox. Вот и всё.
Proxmox was the only one where I can just fire up a VM and that VM would have its own private IP assigned by my router automatically. I couldn’t make that work at all anywhere else. Proxmox is the best for students wanting to learn and small business owners who’re just starting out.
the esxi image can be downloaded for free.. Licenses can be... aquired from creative places.
And im running an esxi on my old gaming computer with realtek nic. Just need to modify the esxi image.. theres a ps1 script for that and lots of tutorials.
im gonna set up a proxmox now because i dont want to buy server grade hardware all the time. GPU passthrough seem to work better there as well.
Danke!
Proxmox has its own backup solution built in better than any third party solution. By contrast ESXI doesnt making third party solutions a necessity. Proxmox has better storage support if you ask me. It has built in ceph and glusterfs support. Vmware is way behind here as it doesnt support such.
Great stuff, thanks
Personally I will be going with XCP-NG over Proxmox
Yep. XCP-NG has it all.
But it does not have ZFS and all the goodies that come with it.
If XCP-NG had ZFS, I would consider it, but having both the Hypervisor and storage in one machine/place/config is hard to give up!
@@pepeshopping ZFS?
Amazing video
I am suggesting Client to use Proxmox if they were using VMware ROBO licenses, but if they are serious about virtualization for the moment they'd better stay with VMware.
I'll make a perhaps funny comparison, saying "serious about virtualization" in that context is like telling an taxi driver or a bus driver, or a taxi company or a bus company that if they want to be serious about driving they should all buy a fleet of Ferrari or some fancy fleet of coaches. When the suitable tool for the job of most tasks that they care about is a fleet of Prius or even Tesla (I don't know any city busses brands :)) ). Virtual box or Truenas is "not" being serious about virtualization, not proxmox. Even hyper-v, if used incorrectly is "not" serious about virtualization, but I wouldn't think about putting proxmox in that bucket :)
@@LiviuPavel I agree with you but vmware prices have changed a lot, companies using VMware ROBO for branches where maybe they were virtualizing just 4 or 5 VM (access control, shared printing...) before Broadcom were spending 500 euro/year of license for each node, now they should be spending 5000 /year....
in my lab at home I still use VMware, not Proxmox, but, sometimes you have to find a compromise. :)
ESXI doesn't support Realtek NICs. This was a main point I started using Proxmox in my Homelab. Proxmox will rule the virtualization in near future. LXC is addon over VMware.
Bonjour, obliger d'acheter une carte réseau Intel de serveur, pour pouvoir installer Esxi 8. Heureusement Amazone est là ! ! Mais c'est vrai que la configuration et l'utilisation Esxi est plus facile qu'avec Proxmox.
Proxmox has ROM-BAR, Esxi has no.
Esxi has x540-at2 drivers (good in vm and host), Proxmox has no.
Another great video however I prefer for my home enviroment to resemble what I see in the real world. Most likely I will be moving over to Hyper-V or Xen.
Dude, if you’re going to do an honest comparison, drop the “paid” features of esx when compared to proxmox… you sound like a Broadcom shill! I agree that ESXi was the gold standard for a long time but Broadcom shot themselves in the foot and nobody other than enterprises with existing VMware instances should consider this platform moving forward
Proxmox would the the ultimate Hypervisor, IF it was a true APPLIANCE!
Needing manual changes in the shell? Edit boot loader options in order to enable pass-through!?
Once they get a ONE FILE backup/restore for 100% of the configuration, THEN, I will consider it.
I dislike Proxmox GUI too, so not a real appliance or solution for me.
Moved from ESXi to TrueNAS Scale and very happy with it. Within this year, TN will get all the little features that are missing, making it an all services/options/features server/machine.
How long will it take you to restore a Proxmox server, 100%, if the boot/OS drive fails???
With TN: 10 min to install, 3 min to upload config file, 3 min reboot.
Frankie Boyle's lost American brother!
Is there really any comparison to be had? ESXi is dead therefore Proxmox is the way forward. Or TrueNAS. But definitely not ESXi!
Allen Richard Gonzalez Shirley Walker Sandra
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VMware esxi is dead - D E A D - in the home lab. Dead.
looks tired face. whyyy?
omg, PVE vs ESXI Video Number 1001…. Do sth new, like comparing the speed with benchmarks on same hardware… and not the millionth video about the same thing.
XCP-NG > Proxmox when it comes to solid performance - Had so much random performance issues with proxmox 🐌 that I cannot recommend it. ESXi is the best but not when you factor in cost.
I am no pro at all... do you mess around with video passthrough using older server hardware, like R730xd and Tesla P100, Quadro 4000? I went toward proxmox because I see plenty of support for this, but it has issues to overcome here and there.
@@TDHobbies I have a Lenovo P workstation and use a Quadro M2000 for pass through. The exact same hardware seems to work perfectly under xcp-ng and Esxi prior to migration. It seems easier to break the debian os under proxmox.
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