This video was recorded and sent to Jay a couple of months ago. It was only viewed if you went to Jay's channel and clicked on it listed in the responses. We decided to just make it public on our channel so that those that followed along could more easily find it and view it.
Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. - Mark Twain So Danny, a) take MTwain's advice b) keep doing the good work & c) ignore the hhuuuuggge bruised egos of Lil dudes who have a lot more to learn in life.
I also love popcorn. In the end, I do understand the point of your initial video on the topic. Although it may have rubbed people the wrong way, I do see your intention.
@@bubblehead5394 I thought Jay's response was very professional and made valid points. Why not just say Sean's and Andrew's name instead of implying it? Sean has a bed in his listening room, if you're gonna call them out, frankly, don't bitch out, especially with a title of "calling out reviewers" and putting their faces on the thumbnail.
@@themoistgreenorganic Probably because Jay is comes off as very immature. Not that he hasn't put in the time, and doesn't have the passion. He does put out some interesting content for sure.
@@themoistgreenorganic He called him a delusional elitist for frankly encouraging young content producers to sharpen their skills of the trade, and addresses them literally as the future of influence in the industry. I'm just saying, the kids not exactly professional, just because he made points you agree with. Dont get me wrong, I agree danny has a bit of an ego, and I cant really follow him on his cable stance, or some of his boutique components. His stance on room correction, however, is entirely undeniable. Its a topic thats UNANIMOUSLY agreed upon, with the only detractors being golden eared "audiophile" subjectivists.
Danny, I have been to your Town twice and enjoyed both visits. Thank you. I really enjoyed the XO rebuild you did for me on the old Tannoys. Jay is remaking himself every few months in search of ratings. Interesting enough he did buy a DIY speaker from a company in CA. MSRP is $2k assembled. Claims it is nearly as good as his recent aquisition of Sonus Faber Electa Amator IIIs. $10k MSRP. He couldn't make it to Axpona 400 miles for him, yet I saw The Cheap Audio Man there pressing the flesh.
Quality video, probably my favorite that he has done (at least top three that I have seen). I love Jay’s videos. I love Thomas and Stereo, Zero Fidelity, Audiophiliac, Andrew Robison, Jay’s Audio lab, New Day Record, Ana[dia]log, and the list goes on and on. I really liked this video because of this guy’s decision to be classy about the situation. Especially in a world where we don’t see a lot of people taking the high road. Thanks for the video.
Danny hit the nail on the head when he spoke about expensive gear set up badly at shows sounding trashy, compared to less expensive gear sounding better, when set up correctly. When buying hi-fi for your room it isn't about getting the most expensive, but it's more about what suits your room better. At one time I was so focused on buying the biggest and most expensive floorstanders that I could buy, without thinking if they actually worked well in my room. Now I've done some re-thinking and are looking for the perfect sounding stand mount speakers with the most balanced sound for my room. I may add a couple of subs if needed and then upgrade my amp to get the sound I'm looking for. I'm even considering a couple of speaker kits.
Thank you Danny. I love your honesty and directness. I am a GR Research customer and I truly believe your attention to detail, logic, and thoughtful design put you on levels above so many high end speaker manufacturers. The proof is in the design.
Greatly appreciated, thanks a lot. I see it was an emotional topic for you and you are absolutely right. Learn from people with decent experience, like yourself and dont blame like a fool. Also dont focus on purely be an Audiophile superstar, like some do! Thanks a lot, if i visit Texas next year, i'll drop by :-) greats from Germany!!
In 30 years of pro audio design including in home design, acoustics can make or break the best of equipment. With proper acoustics lesser equipment sounds better. There are alot of acoustic tricks I've learned over the years. Some big, some little but they all help. And you don't have to spend stupid money ( carbon nano technology lol) to get good results. A little money can get you the majority of needed improvements. The way to do it is NOT buy stuff labeled "acoustical". All materials are acoustical. You just need to know the physics and what stuff does. I have fixed reflective issues with lamps or a ceiling mounted light fixture as well as other "things". A little work can make a huge difference.
Good sir! You wouldn’t per chance be able to recommend some learning on this topic would you please? I have learned exactly as you say through various means but it would be fantastic to know of a quality resource (something I am unable decipher with my lack of experience!) to learn about how to improve that side of things on my own. Would really appreciate any advice!
@@donquixoteupinhere I don't know of any "books" on diy acoustic solutions. I can explain alot of it but not in a you tube comment. The best thing I can say is study basic physics, absorption, reflection (especially relative to wavelengths), diffraction, resonances, stored energy, standing waves, time arrival, etc. It's an accumulation of reading, talking with others, observations, experimentation and a lot of thought and contemplation. A mind open to ideas outside of convention is helpful also. Combine that with the study of physics. I know that is vague and I apologize for that. Some of my conclusions fly in the face of conventional thinking but by experimentation and execution, I have confirmed the ideas I use. Again it is just too much to put into a youtube comment.
@@donquixoteupinhere I've read most all of what's out there. And for what you're asking, ... I'd suggest; - Newell's Studio Acoustic Design - Everest's Master Acoustics - Toole's Sound Reproduction Supplements for more deep a dive; - Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers by Cox and D'Antonio - Designer John Brandt has a solid online collection of material and tools for studio design. - Siegfried Linkwitz' likely has the best online A to Z examination of the challenges of capture and reproduction, our hearing, and of course loudspeaker playback in residential rooms. - Finally, a single condensed read; "Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms" ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#:~:text=Ethan%20Winer%20is%20co%2Dfounder,%2C%20acoustician%2C%20and%20college%20instructor. I know that seems like a lot, but that's just the best essentials.
@@FOH3663 I haven't read them all. But I am sure it is good knowledge to be sure. A lot of what I have learned has been from trial and adjustment, from analysing other facilities and reusing what worked. As well as professors.
@@jked7463 appreciate the guidance! I have some knowledge of this but I am more of a computer scientist than a scientist these days! I never had a good physics teacher in school either though now it’s something I’m most interested in
Danny I just spent 45 minutes watching your original video, and 45 minutes watching Jay's response to that video, and of course this video... Dude why did you even bother making this response video? They are just a couple of green kids that have no idea what they are talking about. They have no comprehension of what you were trying to say. I remember being that age decades ago and no one could tell me shirt either, because I was young and knew it all. I had to get old to realise I didn't know a fraction of what I thought I knew. They don't understand what it means to have experience, because they are too young to know any different. As Cat Stevens once wrote "You're still young, that's your fault There's so much you have to know". Jay struck me as being quiet intelligent, but in typical millennial fashion failed to grasp the deeper meaning in your words. They are all about the here and now and being paid for their efforts, and don't want to put in the unpaid hard yards, or understand wanting to help others without a profit being involved. At the end of their video the guy on the right went into character assassination mode, just proving that he had no solid argument or rebuttal. I am a little older than you (not much) but I have seen my fair share of audio snake oil salesman in the four decades I have been in this hobby, and would consider myself a reasonable judge of character, and you are definitely not one. To a millennial that doesn't understand our generation, and understand what it means to do things for the love of it, they will never understand or want to understand what you are saying. They completely missed the point of the video which was to raise the bar, not a self promotion tour they took it to be. The fact that they went on about being quietly spoken like it was some ploy to trick people into buying an idea or product just shows they have no understanding of humility, or what it means to find it hard to talk about confrontational topics. You are clearly a quiet guy who is very humble trying to making a living. You clearly know more about audio than 99% of the pros out there, but they have no interest in leveraging your experience because they "know it all". It is the curse of youth. If I ever make it to America I will definitely be looking you up because the more I watch of your videos the more I think you could teach me. These guys are downright foolish if they don't take you up on your offer to be schooled. Maybe it is just age talking, but I know I still have a lot to learn even after four decades, your advanced level of knowledge is obvious to those of us with some understanding. Pride is not going to stand in my way of learning from someone who knows way more than I do. These guys are never going to be anything more than mediocre reviewers because they want to the quick fix. They don't get that knowledge is accumulated over time by having been there and done that, by going through the process of trying different things, this only comes with years or decades of experience. Like most millennials they think their one single idea is the only idea. Keep the videos coming and I'll keep watching, and thank you for all that you do, it is greatly appreciated.
I could not make it through their video. Fifteen minutes in and they hadn't yet made a valid point. They are at that stage of learning some refer to as " unconscious ignorance " . I think they are probably stuck there as they are too arrogant to ever realize thatvthey don't already know it all.
@@andrewkelly1225 and there we have the definition of youth... I was no different, I thought I knew it all till I got old enough to know different. Now I'm not sure what I know. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I might not have known anything about anything, but I had confidence I was right. Now I second guess myself on everything I do.
Well said, I watched there video and they are just don’t know what they are talking about and basically just talking without thinking about what comes out of there face. They are just kids who need to listen more and learn before they have the understanding of that they say. They just sound uneducated.
@@stevenpaul3886 the truly sad part of all of this, is I bet that far more young people listen to their opinion, and take it as an informed one, then do to Danny's. There is a lot of ignorance out there, and it is drawn to it's own. There is absolutely nothing that you can do about it but wait for them to live long enough to realise that hey maybe I didn't know it all.
@@r423sdex truth ! No show I have seen them better yet many audio enthusiasts never heard of gsr aside from this channel. There is simply to many speakers out there to judge that
Initiating and opening up dialogue and communication is necessary for any specific field to move forward, improve, and share opinions, ideas, share & educate members and interested participants to grow, develop, and expand their knowledge bases. Looking ahead and not back is the way to create products that will be better and to fill the needs of future audiophiles. Long ago some early record producers and audio engineers would mix their early rock & roll and country music on inexpensive “car speakers” because that was the focus group they were targeting with their products. It’s come along way since then. Thanks Danny!
Very well said, love that you are actually concerned about growing the hobby and industry. I speak from experience, Danny does not want all your money. He wants you to learn and enjoy.
This is great. One of my favorite parts is addressing how much you spend vs how much other people spend on their systems. I used to do auto-audio bass competitions. I had an incredible stereo in my car, speaker placement was one of my criteria before I bought it so I wouldn't have to do any extra fabrication outside of the subwoofer enclosure. I was running an $80 amp and a $120 subwoofer tied into an older Panasonic deck that had SRS WOW and 5 V pre-outs with a 7 band equalizer, no dancing lights and BS ($400). My technically budget system at 350W RMS was blowing away dudes that spent thousands of dollars on high end gear up to 1000 watts but didn't know how to set it up or pick complementary components. I was overpowering my sub but the signal chain was super clean so I wasn't worried about blowing the coils. Just because you throw a lot of money at something and buy all the most expensive gear doesn't mean your results will be good at all. Too much money and too little sense is a bad combination.
There are two things that matter in business...love for what you do and experience. Manufacturing loudspeakers that work fine at the customer's place is not easy and adding some degree of innovation may takes a very long R&D phase. I used to watch GR Research videos because I find new perspectives and ideas here and the approach to loudspeaker network is extremely professional. After being in business since a relatively long time I probably know 1 other engineer with that deep knowledge and expertise from Germany (printed loudspeaker review). Provocations don’t hurt but may be annoying if they are addressed the wrong way...
I watch because it is clear Danny is speaking from experience. However, when he says that you are not qualified until you believe in expensive speaker cables, he might as well be a pastor saying you are not a real Christian until you speak in tongues! Since Danny mentioned Gene (Audioholics), it's only fair to point out that Gene has a very thorough video debunking expensive speaker cables. In the video Gene also admits he has expensive cables, even though he is confident they make no difference. Why? Because he likes them! I think this is something audiophiles need to do more often--admit that sometimes their choices are made for reasons other than improving sound quality. And it is ok to buy things you like. It's your project, your hobby, and your escape; make it yours.
In physics terms, I believe there are specific instances where higher quality cables can yield benefits, but I forget the exact details of that. Perhaps iirc the distance the cable travels is relevant. Not trying to argue with you, I have heard a mixture of things over the years and I’ve recently moved into the camp of believing they can matter but you must understand why they matter to know when to apply them. Chap’s name on here who made the video is ‘A British audiophile’. Since I believe in balancing my views I’m going to have a look at both the channel poster’s video and the one you mentioned! Thanks
@@donquixoteupinhere The resistance of a cable is the main thing affected by cable length. Gauge needs to increase as length increases, to keep resistance low. The connections Danny talks about all the time also add resistance. There is a figure for what an acceptable resistance value is, but I don't recall what it is at the moment. It's a case of diminishing returns, where you don't benefit from crazy big speaker wires, but tiny high resistance wires definitely hurt performance. And you gotta be careful, because Gene talks about expensive cables that measure worse than a generic 12ga speaker wire.
Couldnt agree more. So many videos are so speculative of the reviewer’s situation (aka the room). You seen it with a few channels, once they refined the acoustics of the room, all of a sudden videos of the nature: oops I was wrong” start coming out. But there is much more that they dont check, impedance matching, voltage fluctuations… etc. Some rooms and systems could be colored so much, that changing some components only reveal a fraction of what that component actually does, that it makes a lot of what reviewers say, subjective to how they can test. And I believe your system is miles above many commercial setups. At some point in your journey, you start understanding what components within your components are providing in the sound you hear, and realize, that to surpasse your existing sonic experience the answer sits with solutions that are not answered by buying or changing gear. When I didnt know anything, I had 50k in components in a treated room, today, I have less then 15k in the same treated room with a sonic experience that dwarfs anything I had before or heard with simple commercial components mixed rigs. The difference is the mix of diy and customizable commercial components that I can taylor to fill in the gaps i want filled and enhance what I want enhanced to have the best possible sound wave run through all the components, with as little bottlenecks as possible. (If any).
You sir are the rare individual who is committed to selflessly helping all of us enthusiasts. Your sincerity is completely obvious . Also, there are other U-Tubers who do what you do & are also sincere. Personally, I've received a lot of valuable assistance from y'all. I've bought gear after watching / reading many reviews from pros like yourself, who have access to all that gear. and, U know what, each of those purchases worked out real well. Thank U all for what you do !
So well said and done, Danny. I appreciate you and your perspective. You're a genuine, no-nonsense guy with decades of knowledge and experience. I believe that combination is often rare to find, so when others find it, they don't know what to make of it and react in their own point of view. Thank you for your efforts and keeping open communication even with others who simply throw vitriol and opinions. Cheers!👍🙂
Could not agree more Danny. Glad you cleared that up mate. It's strange that you should say you have not seen Jays order. I was wondering that too, so I queried him about 2 weeks ago regards that.This was his reply to me verbatum : "They are back-ordered quite a bit. Still looking for either new or used. " Hoping that does not beg an obvious question for Jay to answer.
Oh thank you!!!! Great rap Danny. Spot on. Honesty is not ego. Happy to hear your truthful response to those who like the word 'snakeoil'. Nothing can replace practice and learning with an open ear and mind!
Jay I watch you channel too. Listen to Danny, he's opened up as a mentor. You're going to take a road trip. Make it real and professional... Great stuff Danny
Sorry late to the video, Danny you are spot on. The consumer today has to evaluate the YT reviewers and qualify & quantify them on all MY criteria. Do we listen to the same types of music, out of the same equipment do I hear the same nuances? It goes on and on. I like you grew up where you could go and hear a particular pair of speakers, try out different amps and so on. It's very rare today and as we research for the best product for the best price for our own listening. In the end, if we're not having fun, it's not worth our time. Keep up the great work and we who already know the truth in what you are saying are still behind you!
Two thumbs up! Thanks Danny for making it easier to climb the slope to audio nirvana. BTW, I know Danny’s system is the best because I saw the episode on his secret high tech cable lifters.
I watched this video with amazement. You have a soft, non-threatening voice and presence. It serves you well. Unfortunately, it masks a great deal of arrogance. You deny it repeatedly, but long ago I learned to beware of he/she who protests too loudly. I'm talking about your ego. Some takeaways: 1) You lump UA-cam reviewers on the cable issue as if they all thought pricey cables are snake oil. I watch a lot of UA-cam reviewers and don't hear that. 2) Of course listening space impacts sound quality. However, I can't think of a reviewer I watch that does not specify that their observations are for their listening space. In addition, there are as many opinions about what constitutes good acoustics as there are experts in the field. I recall the multiple times that highly professional acousticians tried to improve Chicago's Orchestra Hall only to screw it up each time. If UA-cam reviewers had to have near-ideal acoustics to do their work there would not be too many reviews. Perhaps you would like that. 3) You invite them to learn from you as if so many decades in the business automatically qualify you as an expert. Experience does not competence make. What experience should do is make you more open-minded. 4) You miss the point of reviews. You may not need them for Marketing, but your customers need them to see if others concur with your claims. Your view on this is very self-centered, hardly customer-centric. 5) Inviting reviewers to come to Texas to learn from you is pure arrogance. Do you want to mold the new generation in your image? Sure they are imperfect, but so are you. It is hard to tell when you don't submit your work to a variety of opinions. People do make comments in your forum. Those are much harder to access than where your critique appeared in Jay's channel. I know, I tried to access them. You have to first be a member and have submitted at least three postings before you can gain access. You have at first glance a compelling, reasonable approach, advocating for a discussion. But a discussion is never one-way. What would you like to teach the young ones? I'd like to know. I'm sure they would too. You can flatter them all you want, but what would you like to learn from the new generation?
I’ll think you need to go down to Danny’s place and have this conversation and get the same information, teaching, as he offers the young lads. Danny has repeatedly said in his other videos, to everybody, come down to TX and listen for yourself. Call me, he’s saying. Haven’t you heard that? If so, then I understand your angry comment. Or is it so that you got angry for not being invited? I’m humble and eager to learn new stuff although I’m soon pension leave.
I appreciate your feedback, but you have mistaken my honesty for arrogance and my experience for ego. I have been at this for a long time. My products have been reviewed by every magazine and won every industry award. I have won the highest awards at shows as well. So when I speak of things it is not from my own imagination, but from years of well founded facts and experience. My goal is to make the new generation of reviewers better. Since my video calling them out several have taken big strides to step up their game. Some of totally revamped and upgraded their rooms. Jay recently reviewed a high end cable and cable risers. He is now singing a different tune than he was a few months ago as I was being criticized for cables. Baby steps, but I'll take it. They are learning and getting better already.
@@rikardekvall3433 Do you know what is arrogant? Assuming that I need Danny's guidance. You don't know a thing about my background and experience. I've been at this longer than Danny, since I was 11 years old and helping my Dad repair tube gear for clients on our dining room table. I'm 73 now. It reminds me of religious zealots who assume people need to be saved even though they may already be. Danny commits a number of mistakes. The most obvious is assuming that the younger generation of reviewers is like Jay. They are not. Lumping all "lads" into one pot is unfair and unwarranted. If you have not seen enough of them and their work, watch them. Don't take Danny's word at face value. He certainly has a convincing manner but the arrogance and the ego are transparently there if you don't put him on a pedestal. Putting ourselves on a pedestal is a marker for arrogance. I'd love to hear Danny talk about how he himself can get better. What are his opportunities for improvement? When you are critical of others, you'd better be ready to be critical of yourself. We all have areas where we can be better. Not looking inwards while wanting others to change is a marker for arrogance.
I totally agree what the young generation need to listen. The soundstaging, the details, the pinpoints. It is easy to hear if you have setup properly. I used to sell high end too. You can't hear the difference, you are not gonna to buy. Even there is a difference, it is not the buy decision. Where is whole lots more to make payments for $100k speaker cable. Back to soundstaging, details, pinpoints....etc there are limits that you can take. I had setup 2C3D before. It was wow. The details, the soundstage, layerings especially you are playing Reference Recording from keith johnson. Any components from that system was so hard to sell. Treatment, the electronics and cable, they were engineered as a whole. Worst of all, not to everyone cup of tea. Not the majority one like those vocal audiophile. That the best system they can heard, but buy?Nope. They have their taste of music. Missing out of these four brand to make 2C3D, you are not getting there too. As dealer you have to bite, listen and describe how the difference are. Otherwise, it is just hard selling. People really need to travel more to listen to high end gears. Especially for show, you can really know from the good and bad. You have to hear the good and bad.
@@armandorancano6415 Please Armando, calm down before you get a stroke. Danny is an American and when they know, or do good, they let you know. Remember that. He’s been working with speakers, crossovers and sound for the major part of his life and won some big awards. Seen and heard a lot of speakers, so I think he have some huge knowledge. Your knowledge in tubes tells you good, but it’s not speakers. When Danny does his upgrade videos, he does show confidence (some call it arrogance and ego) in what he has done and what the end result got to be. Many people get mad because he changed a speaker that they own and that they have payed a lot for such a bad performer and need a upgrade to be even with what they really paid for the speaker. Some get’s offended. Some understand when Danny’s talking about how the market works and what’s inside, not only outside look and brand. About Jay, so is he a rising star within this small world on UA-cam. He’s good but needs to slow down a little. He wants to say so much that he gets stressed, not eager. Knowledge and confidence gives a more mature sense. As Danny says, Jays the coming star. When you have a system/rig like Danny (and many more Cost is no object men), it have a great sound and any small improvement which improves the sound is their goal. Upgraded cables, crossover, connecting are these small tweaks that might improve the sound, little. But little change here and there, makes a big change in the end. This might not include systems from your local BestBuy or Amazon. Everyone that watch Danny’s videos and get offended need to watch Vinyl Attacks video about his visit to Texas. Where he talks about adults. Calm down and have a nice Sunday.
Danny, I love this video. Some Reviewers are hypocrites. If you watch their channels all of a sudden they are fixing rooms, doing treatments, diy, cable lifters etc. It all hit them and they cant admit it. I dont like that because they are trying to get sympathy to gain subscribers. Sometimes it becomes dirty business.
I left a comment on their video. One of the key points I had mentioned was what Danny is talking about... the room allows you to really hear what the speakers can do. I was fortunate enough to listen to a $100K two-channel system "back in the day". It was part of what was called a "2C3D" system. It was, of course, in a fully-treated room. This system was the first time I'd ever heard a true 3D imaging of sound. And the detail of the vocals and instruments were TRULY next level. And even more amazing was that it was the first (and last) time I'd heard VERTICAL differentiation in where the instruments were (classical orchestra, from instruments up front, but down low to the drums high and in the back)! It blew my mind! And I'd owned pretty good equipment (for their time: NAD, M&K, etc). But it was nothing compared to the way this system sounded. Since then I've listened to many nice systems, running up to $20-30K, but they didn't compare to that one system. But it did give me a basis for comparison and taught me what to listen for. I hope that they take Danny up on his offer and that they get an opportunity to hear what I did so they will be able to hear the limitations of the equipment they review.
@@freone111 Yeah, I guess Jay might/should know. But there is a difference between companies that claim to be high-end and those that actually are. I've seen companies claim to be high-end because they are dealers for B&W, M&K, Marantz, Denon, etc, but those manufacturers, while they get good press and have decent products, are really only mid-tier. And those same manufacturers have tiered dealers. They don't let all of their dealers sell the truly high-end stuff because not many if them can support the top products. Don't get me wrong, they have some good products, but even their top-tier products are only upper middle-tier or lower upper-tier in the big picture. There is some "snake oil" out there. But there is also some real stuff. I don't know how Danny's stuff sounds, but if I get a chance to get over to (North Central) Texas again, I'm going to try really hard to swing by GR-Research for a listen. I'm really curious about how these open-baffle speakers compare to that 2C3D system I heard so long ago.
I don't know about others, but I do watch video reviews mostly to get info about design, build quality, usability, small details, special features, UI design, etc. If there are any personal dealbreakers. All those small things that are not easily found on written reviews. If I want audio quality review, I can find this info somewhere else. It's of course great if a reviewer gives detailed audio insights, but it's not the main point for me.
Jay is a decent guy with a good heart. lots to learn about life, tho. he completely missed the point. keep up the great work. oh, one more thing, yeah, those shorts are a little short.
I find it hard to believe that the cable issue is still out there. In the 80s people were going at each other in a lot of magazines about it, especially Speaker Builder and Audio Amateur, A friend and I switched out cables, changed caps , coils and wire in the speakers, each one made a difference.
I build speakers, and alligator clips (for testing crossover components) sound different to a normally connected crossover. And a soldered crossover sounded more "brittle" than a twisted wire connection crossover. The non soldered crossover sounded better! A more "silky" sound. I do solder my crossovers but I also have a twisted connection for that "silky sound". But isn't the binding post a non soldered connection? Yes but that is before the crossover. The non soldered connection has to be between the crossover and the driver (or on the crossover like my non soldered crossover). The driver is also soldered but there is a twisted connection between the soldered crossover and the soldered driver.
The cable issue is still out there, legitimately so, because it's a bit more complex than what you are letting on. As I see it, the "no difference" crowd is merely saying that if you put a competent cable up against an incompetent cable i.e. one that (and not to its' credit) colors the sound or augments/depresses certain frequencies, then sure, switching a bad cable for a good cable is going to reveal sound differences. But if you put two competent cables up against each other i.e cables that do not color the cound or inhibit or amplify certain frequencies, then there's no scientific, plausible reason to hear a difference. It would be like asking which brand 90 octane gasoline will make a car run faster. All cable can do competently is 100% transfer a signal. I believe that is essentially the argument I hear being made by the "no difference" crowd.
@@dap777754 that’s why there’s a whole different octane formula used in race cars… put that in our everyday drive and it is “snake oil”… put octane 90 in a race car and they can kiss the race goodbye… still snake oil?
When i entered the audio world (2000ish) I read about cables and their supposed differences. 2 weeks after I purchased my 1st amp I bought a pair of Monster rca's to replace the zip..... Wow!!...Instantly I began my a-phile journey, 20+ yrs later still tweaking to my hearts content...snake oil my a**...
Very, very informative and needed! If you know that you know and others know it too, that's not bragging. Confucius said “He Who Knows And Knows That He Knows Is A Wise Man - Follow Him; He Who Knows Not And Knows Not That He Knows Not Is A Fool - Shun Him” Learn from those people who know what they're talking about and what they're doing.
Jay, dude! you didn’t place a order? Man I definitely lost some respect for you if that’s the case. Please take Danny’s offer and go to Texas it will make for great videos. 🔈👍🏻 hopefully your recent experience with CSS audio gives you a interest with what Danny has to offer
Me too!!!! That’s just flat out lying. Wasn’t click bait or a joke he flat out lied while trashing someone else and in my opinion trashing Danny for lack of understanding what Danny was trying to accomplish.
Very nicely said Danny.Did not know what to make of you at first,but watching your stuff I can see that you are a wizened audio man who needs to be taken seriously.Take care and keep on spreading the knowledge.
Hey Danny. I'm so glad I found you out here in this space. Your real world knowledge just keeps destroying all the hype out here. For a speaker to have any chance of pleasing you. Man they really gotta come with their A game. You remind me a lot of Dodd Audio. Where he would tweek.....listen.....tweek.....listen......tweek some more....listen....until those preamps sounded perfect. Keep doing what you are doing. This space is filled with so much BS from manufactures and reviewers. So we really need you.
You are correct, little things make a big difference. One time I said to a reviewer, you know, that if he wanted to improve his sound stage, take off his hat. He put me down for that comment. That told me his ears were not trained well enough. If he is supposed be reviewing this stuff, then he should be able to hear it.
But he's implying Wilson, et al don't get it. And then using an opinion from RMAF to back up his claim. My fave room at Axpona was a hotel room, easy to set up compared to a ballroom or conference room. No way would his X-Oticas hold a candle in the same room as a Wilson with the same variables.
With your patience and intellect, you've shone us wisdom. You've bin profesional, a gentleman and a scaller, despite the banter of others, thank you, well sed and well taut Sir.
I am kind of taking both sides for this debate. The main statement should be "I know enough to know I don't know it all". As time goes on, as to infinity and beyond, you have to remember that there is always someone that knows (or thinks they know) more. As for me it is good to know that Danny wants to create the best quality product that will work well in a normal environment because it also works in the best. However only rich people or those that beyond their means can afford a dedicated room (will never be possible in the UK for the middle class) Others that are providing reviews base their opinions on a basic room from a basic house with basic treatment. That's 99.9% of the buying public. That said Danny's speakers are great value in the US but not do great value when having to be shipped overseas. Based on this I have a pair of X-Statix's rather the NX-Oticas. By the time I have them shipped their outrageous. Really need an overseas distributor or at a minimum the option to by all kits without the flat pack (you really can get them laser cut anywhere nowadays) I know Danny said he doesn't need any more business but something to think about.
You can get most of our kits without the flat packs. Only the NX Series models require CNC cutting. And we also have negotiated rates with UPS that make shipping overseas pretty reasonable.
I am with you Danny! I am ready to be a Reviewer but I have not done so yet. I am still floored when people claim cables don't matter when I clearly hear they do! There is so much Miss Information out there its crazy as Politics.....
the cable difference problem to me is not the cables but the lack of reasons why X sounds different from Y on a technical level that are honest. Danny, you always explain your crossover changes , why you pick part X , a graph showing before and after. But Other companies let the marketing department "just make up stuff " When it sounds like someone is lying about cable differences or can't explain why they are difference people tune out. Cables can make a difference. Most of the cables I deal with ( carry a digital signal ) when I hearing a difference is a sign something is wrong. Damaged cable, under-spec'd cable, system is not grounded correctly etc.
In the May issue of "Stereophile," writer Herb Reichert made the same complaint, "Today, the websites of most audio companies are long on fancy photos and hyperbolic sales pitches and short on facts, relevant specifications, reasonable viewpoints, and prices." I agree completely. Why is good information so hard to find?
To your credit Jay has invested 20k in room treatment since your video calling out the reviewers. Andrew Robinson did DIY full range corner traps floor to ceiling. The guy who reviews from his bedroom is pretty proud of how his 7X10 space sounds.
Since the other Sean knows what his bedroom sounds like, I trust him with electronics reviews. However as it stands I suspect his speaker reviews for that reason.
Jay also recently reviewed cables and cable risers. He was quite surprised especially by the cable risers. Funny isn't it how he and his buddy were criticizing me for that stuff a few months ago.
Does "moving speakers out into the room" apply mainly to ported system and especially "rear" ported systems? With a sealed box or acoustic suspension system does the position "out in the room have a lesser effect?
Great video Danny. In my opinion anyone serious about reviewing products via the UA-cam platform should take you up on your offer to come listen to your system otherwise they are just in it for profit. Would love a list of channels that took you up on the offer so I can continue to support them and remove the rest.
as long as 90% of the "reviewers" judge amps by knocking on the case you are absolutely correct Danny. And this whole Wilson Audio thing, the old Wilson (rip) had one awesome speaker (Watt&Puppy), the rest of the line was pretty much average stuff. I am always laughing my ass off when somebody claims "Oh I am a big WA expert, I had 4 different WA already" and then you find out that he really had all the crappy WA speakers but completely skipped the only good one. Oh what a pro. LOL
@@r423sdex is it really true? What's more valuable 1% 1st and 2nd order harmonic distortion or 0.01% nasty distortion spectrum? IMO it is important to understand what you are dealing with.
While I agree with pretty much everything Danny said in this video, "I want to make you better at what you do" just isn't a good way to position his offer. There are many other ways to do this that won't be taken as an insult and are more likely to get people to come visit. 'You can attract more bees with honey than you can with vinegar' comes to mind.
@GR-Research What review sources do you recommend listening to? A major issue today is the lack of ability to try before you buy. Dealers have such a limited selection that it is hard to discern what is out there and what is really special. I am curious based on this video what your opinions are on the sound of various speakers. You only show measurements and never really say anything about how things sound. I think expecting to listen to every option on the market is totally unreasonable unless you have an unlimited budget and time so finding reviewers you can trust is key. I also totally agree with you on the room. I listened to a pair of focal chora's in one room and they sounded horrible. I heard them again with probably $30k worth of electronics in a better room and they blew me away. I bought them the next day :). They sound fantastic!
If you aren't treating your room and you're doing a review, you're not telling me how the gear sounds so much as you are telling me how your room sounds.
The whole point of treating the room is to try and get rid of what makes the room sound a particular way (i.e. echoes, reflected sounds, ringing, etc). The goal is to hear less room and more speaker. If you don't treat your room, or luck out and have a room that is accoustically dead, you're listening to your speakers in a bad sounding room, not just your speakers.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt echo is when old sound compete with new sound. and sound hit a surface it reflect and could change sound wave. bass response is depend on room type. newbie!
Room treatment make big difference, true. But good cables benefits is very small compare to the HUGE problem of mastering and recording quality! I'm a sound engineer and I can tell you that arguing on cables is totally futile for most people because what they listen to sound so bad at the source. Good cables don't make a recording with 6 db boost at 6khz or horrible compression sound better or so less so. Expensive cables are "snake oil" because of that. Same thing when you compare interconnect wires on an decent amp with good headphones (like Hifiman Arya) to connecting them directly to a mojo 2 with no power cables, no interconnect... very, very small difference. Comparing that to a 10 minutes ride of a race car as a review is very funny but not at all a good comparaison in my opinion.
Danny, the tone of this video is conciliatory without back tracking on your beliefs. Great. One area I would like to see explored is "snake oil." Gene over at Audioholics has very different opinions on this topic. Based on what I can tell about the depth of his experience, I feel it is comparable to yours. Since you & he have such a dichotomy of ideas/opinions regarding "snake oil" and accepting you are two respected people in the field, it leaves folks like me at a loss as to what to believe. I will admit you leave yourself a rather large "out," by saying "If you can't hear the difference the system isn't of high enough quality." As a thought exercise, it would be interesting for you to define commercially available "off the shelf" products (non GR-Research, without GR-Research tweaks) which are of sufficient quality/resolution, to be able to hear the difference between standard power cables of sufficient gauge to handle the loads, and what you consider exemplary cables, of your own design. I chose power cables as these, IMO, seem to be the least likely to provide any discernible difference in sound quality. My concept on the thought exercise, is it would allow people to create a repeatable experiment without a trip to the Lone Star State...
I'm glad you mentioned John Atkinson in your latest posting. Not to single him out, he's just an example. I know a lot of audiophiles look.up to him but to me he's nothing more than a glorified bench tech. His ability to listen critically is poor just based on his own account of his live versus performance demo in his interview on Home Theater Geeks #84 about 30 minutes into it. In Maryland before a fair sized audience he recorded a performance on a Steinway D concert grand piano. After that he played it back. His audience said they enjoyed it but it didn't sound like the real piano. They tried to explain it to him but not only was he puzzled by it but worse his audience heard it but he didn't. He said he got the timbre right but the gist of what the audience told him was that it wasn't grand enough. He still seemed puzzled by it. This is with the speakers in the same room.as the source. Imagine how much worse it would be if it were in an entirely different room. And what if you were in the audience of a concert hall with the piano on the stage and you heard the recording in your listening room at home. Not remotely close. I could have picked out any of dozens, even hundreds of unqualified critics of this equipment with the same conclusion. But if your idea of music is heavy metal or Taylor Swift what you have already is IMO good enough.
Please advise if you control the humidity in your test room, and its level significantly influences how the sound waives are being transitioned in the room. Ideally you would want to listen the music in the respirator to avoid the CO2 to interfere with the frequencies. Thank me later
13:41 Some are snake oil like expensive-ass digital interconnects but analog cables (especially from shitty to decent) bring you ever so slightly closer to the original. 13:51 If a power cable negatively affects the sound, it must have a horribly undersized ampacity. Thankfully good power cables are inexpensive and aplenty. 14:19 Are those proper tests? Blindfolded and labeled "A" and "B" to eliminate the placebo effect and sighted bias via knowing which cable is connected at any moment?
You don't need to blindfold AB test. You can and not buy a $1000 speaker cable and end up with $100 one. There is a difference, but you are after that difference? All you need a good 1hour switching back and forth with your favourite tracks. Not it cost $1000, you need to buy one. You can just live on straight wire OFC.
Regardless on which side of the spectrum you may fall on… There is NO ONE in this world whom can tell YOU how anything sounds better than your own ears. No difference than the best way to enjoy and drink any alcoholic beverages is the way how YOU like to drink it. You can view, read, and listen to all the reviewers in the world… it’s always up to YOU the consumer to experience and listen for yourself.
I moved my vintage budget paradigms out into the room and realized that I've never really heard what they sound like in 40 years of owning them. Thanks for such a cheap dramatic improvement even I can hear. The X-statiks I have on order will now have placement flexibility in my rearranged room.
When Danny switched from the X-Otica to the X-Treme, he opened up a window. Even over compressed UA-cam audio I immediately heard the much larger space and better focus, the opposite of a wall of sound.
Danny. I appreciate your reviews. This video seems a little inauthentic to me tho. At the beginning of this video, you repeated over and over that your first video was for new reviewers. However, in your first video that was not clear. You were talking to ALL reviewers on your first video. It seems like you were walking back some comments on this video - trying to frame your first video in a smaller way. But not taking responsibility for the grandiose frame in the first video. A , "my bad" or something would be more authentic. Jay's response should be taken in light of your first video. If you would've approached your first video with the same tone you approached this video with, then maybe the conversation you wanted to start could've started. Conversations aren't usually started with a condescending tone
Good feedback. I am not walking anything back, and maybe I wasn't as clear on some things in the first video as I could have been. Keep in mind I don't write my videos. They are not sliced and pieced together. I start speaking from my heart and just run with my thoughts. Nothing is rehearsed. I am still pretty new and this and hopefully, I will get better.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for your response. My tone was to harsh to get a response from u tbh 😂. I wasn't expecting one. Good luck expanding the conversation in the future
No expert here and my familiarity with gear is limited at the highest levels. That said, I've been into audio since 1971. I'm absolutely confident that Danny is absolutely correct in his assertions because I've experienced those differences he mentions. The greatest obstacle to growth is ego and we're all susceptible to falling prey to our egos. I've noticed that far too many reviewers provide significantly limited reviews. Case in point, lots of youtube rave reviews on the new $1200. Elac Debut Reference Bookshelves. Only youtube reviewer Erin(sp?) mentioned that its major limitation is it only gets so loud. Manufacturer spec is it goes up to 96db. That's plenty loud but nowhere near how loud classical concert peaks can get, much less rock concerts. Now if vocals, chamber music and jazz are your thing, no problem. But if rock and symphonies are important you probably want to look elsewhere. Detecting and reporting on every significant plus and minus is the responsibility of the reviewer because in doing a review, the reviewer is portraying themselves as both trustworthy and competent. Especially now with so many people having no alternative to purchasing unheard equipment based on reviews.
I got a pair of Elac Debut Reference bookshelf speakers for $700 new. Are we talking about different speakers? Btw. A significant reason I got them is that the kids thought that they were flat and not that "fun".
@@geoffreydebrito2653 I see. Btw. I don't think anyone buys bookshelf speakers to listen to loud music, and it's pretty clear that these are not designed for rock music. The problem as I see is that there's a taboo in the audiophile world with respect to mentioning the music that the designer listens to or designs for. You have to read between the lines. One give away is this: if the speakers etc sound "fun" means it's probably not for classical, whereas if the designer mentions that he seeks to replicate the sound of live music he's probably listens to classical, probably chamber music because you can hear the individual instruments. That's my theory anyway. I just don't think that live rock music has a sound or in any case, a studio recording of say ACDC won't sound anything like a live concert and you don't want the latter in your room. IMO.
This issue could be made into a true audio event. Would you be willing to fight it out with Jay in a boxing ring? I am sure we can work out the details and stream the event.
OMG DRAMA, HOT SILVER FOX SPEAKER COMPANY CEO CALLS OUT EVEN HOTTER YOUNG HOT HIFI AUDIOPHILE REVIEWER IN THE HOTTEST YT DRAMA SINCE JAMES CHARLES, I CAN'T HANDLE THIS LEVEL OF HOTNESS I'M GONNA LIE DOWN BEFORE I BURN UP......!!! 😁
What pisses me off is the multi thousand-dollar stuff with a buck fifty worth of parts. Sure, some gear may cost a fortune to bring to market and be worth a fortune. But, we seem inundated with ignorance led by grifters and hucksters everywhere we turn. Peace (sells but who's buyin')
I've been waiting for this...I hope the young reviewers understand that if you come off as an expert, you ought to be. too many folks that are watching these videos are trying to learn from professionals, and if you're just bringing your viewers on your journey, understand that doesn't make you a professional...just a tour guide.
I don't have treated room and I can hear different. Proper triangle rule, move out of the wall and listen off the wall. I have windows and have it open. I don't mind the outside sound. It just sound less echo. Sound die out faster. You gonna have sensitive system. I used to sell high end stuff too.
4:37 I mean sure you might be able to do that if you're only looking at frequency response but as soon as you are looking at a more complete set of measurements involving radiation patterns, directivity, phase, and early reflections you'll have changed something in one of those. Send something to Erin's Audio Corner with two sets(flat/3d) and I guarantee they will measure differently on his Klippel that's more accurate than an anechoic chamber or gated windows. However if you showed those attributes yourself in the CTA2034a set of measurements I'd be more inclined to believe you. 10:30 how can you say yours is better at the same time as saying another brand wasn't setup right? Showrooms are setup quick so it's possible that you could have setup their gear in a way that sounded better than your own or that you got a better room than them. 13:45 😂😂 I guess old man Gene whos been in the industry just as long isn't ready either then and he's even an Electrical Engineer
@@michaelperry3578 lol I know plenty. Done plenty of reading/watching of people with PhDs in audio like Floyd Tool. My main point is he can't say his is better if the other one is setup not optimally. Apples to oranges comparison. Literally being in different sized rooms would have a difference in how a speaker would interact with it such as room modes and SBIR cancellations and such. Another way of putting it is a $1000 system setup correctly would best Danny's speakers when setup incorrectly but it doesn't mean his speakers are worse.
@@TylerStout You can't even spell Floyd E Toole's name correctly so how can anyone take you seriously? You should watch and just keep quiet because you do know very little. I held little respect for Toole so throwing his name around isn't impressing anyone.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt not trying to impress anyone just expressing I know things. Definitely more to learn myself and there's definitely more to learn in terms of quantifying sound as what Floyd has done isn't complete but it's the best we have right now. Let me know when you have a better argument than one missing letter.
Enormous respect for you Danny. "No brag, just fact" said the old tv show. Congrats on having the courage of your convictions. When I decide to change my speakers, I'll be calling.
I guess it's up to the viewers and consumers to watch and decide who's acting like a child and who will be mortified to watch their own video in 10 years, maybe even 5.
4:29 i recommend that if you want to improve the audio review scene, you should make a debunk video calling out reviewers that claim measurements are all they need to determine sound of a product. Sharur is famous for this, for example.
tbh, if that Chinese JBL sound engineer can speak English, he will be able to debunk whole bunch of BS from GR-Research. Sadly, he is Chinese so yall American are safe for now - from the truth.
@@Viewer13128 His username is 119鬼斧神工，he wrote so many pieces from sound engineering point of view in Mandarin and it triggered many people that makes them decided to dox him. You might be able to find his Chinese ID card and ask JBL in which people have already done it and confirmed his identity. That's all I can say.
I'm kinda disappointed being told they ordered the speakers looked right in the cameras and said done. Well see what these speakers are about! Wow! That's really really sucks and goes straight to integrity. Somebody is selling snake oil and it ain't to impressive lying directly to attempt to damage another's business because of a butt hurt ego. F' em. Get real.
The problem i have is they said they ordered them and clicked on the website and said there, done. As in i just ordered a set of speakers from gr research. According to what Danny said there was no order. If that is true, that means they lied about ordering them and put on a act in a video for the sole purpose of deceiving the watchers into thinking they would review a set of speakers they never actually ordered. If that's true, it's pathetic petty and deceitful. That's what's wrong with that!
I didn't bother watching Jay's video but if ANYONE is deluded in this exchange it's not Danny. Even if Danny made mediocre product - and I don't believe that is the case - he has the right to ask more of a UA-camr who wants a pair to review. Email Wilson or Magico and ask them if you need room treatment etc - let us know how that works out.
Regarding the cable thing: I really don't get why the nay sayers don't try it out. Maybe at a dealer with a good setup, or else. It is that obvious. Plus it is a good test if your systems is revealing or not. If you don't hear it, maybe something is wrong with your system :-DD
Jay realizing that a DIY kit that cost over 5X cheaper then his other speaker can sound just as good or slightly better is eating him up inside. lol His justification for the extra cost is leather. LOL Thats how you know he is still wet behind the ears.
I got a kick out of that too, but on a positive note, he is listening and comparing. He also sounded pretty humbled when he recently admitted that he heard a significant difference when using some cable risers. He's learning.
i complete get ur point of having the best room, but wouldn't it be a fallacy for reviewers to review speakers not in a room that normal people listen in? because if they have a perfect room an give a review , people without that room wont hear what they do an that could hurt there credibility or cause people to not buy that product or force people to upgrade , but we live in a great time of audio price doesnt always mean better sound as you know, but i do understand ur saying everyone should step there game up an i agree
Don't know who is Jay, but doing review in non treated room is nonsense and people that doing this stuff are very ignorant and probably at their Dunning-Kruger peaktime.
The specific comments about room treatment were not directed at Jay, but at many reviewers. However, Jay was one who made a specific video in response to Danny's video. Jay Lee has a good UA-cam channel called "Jay's Iyagi." The word Iyagi is a Korean term meaning story or history I believe. It's meant to mean that the channel is giving Jay's story of his audio quest. Jay is young, but he does have history and exposure and a good ear and he usually doesn't take himself too seriously.
This video was recorded and sent to Jay a couple of months ago. It was only viewed if you went to Jay's channel and clicked on it listed in the responses. We decided to just make it public on our channel so that those that followed along could more easily find it and view it.
Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- Mark Twain
So Danny, a) take MTwain's advice b) keep doing the good work & c) ignore the hhuuuuggge bruised egos of Lil dudes who have a lot more to learn in life.
I also love popcorn. In the end, I do understand the point of your initial video on the topic. Although it may have rubbed people the wrong way, I do see your intention.
@@bubblehead5394 I thought Jay's response was very professional and made valid points. Why not just say Sean's and Andrew's name instead of implying it? Sean has a bed in his listening room, if you're gonna call them out, frankly, don't bitch out, especially with a title of "calling out reviewers" and putting their faces on the thumbnail.
@@themoistgreenorganic Probably because Jay is comes off as very immature. Not that he hasn't put in the time, and doesn't have the passion. He does put out some interesting content for sure.
@@themoistgreenorganic He called him a delusional elitist for frankly encouraging young content producers to sharpen their skills of the trade, and addresses them literally as the future of influence in the industry. I'm just saying, the kids not exactly professional, just because he made points you agree with. Dont get me wrong, I agree danny has a bit of an ego, and I cant really follow him on his cable stance, or some of his boutique components. His stance on room correction, however, is entirely undeniable. Its a topic thats UNANIMOUSLY agreed upon, with the only detractors being golden eared "audiophile" subjectivists.
Danny, I have been to your Town twice and enjoyed both visits. Thank you. I really enjoyed the XO rebuild you did for me on the old Tannoys.
Jay is remaking himself every few months in search of ratings. Interesting enough he did buy a DIY speaker from a company in CA. MSRP
is $2k assembled. Claims it is nearly as good as his recent aquisition of Sonus Faber Electa Amator IIIs. $10k MSRP. He couldn't make it to
Axpona 400 miles for him, yet I saw The Cheap Audio Man there pressing the flesh.
Quality video, probably my favorite that he has done (at least top three that I have seen). I love Jay’s videos. I love Thomas and Stereo, Zero Fidelity, Audiophiliac, Andrew Robison, Jay’s Audio lab, New Day Record, Ana[dia]log, and the list goes on and on. I really liked this video because of this guy’s decision to be classy about the situation. Especially in a world where we don’t see a lot of people taking the high road. Thanks for the video.
Tharbamar too
Sterio ReviewX, A British Audiophile, and Hans Beekhausen are very good reviewers too. Check them out if you haven’t yet
Danny hit the nail on the head when he spoke about expensive gear set up badly at shows sounding trashy, compared to less expensive gear sounding better, when set up correctly. When buying hi-fi for your room it isn't about getting the most expensive, but it's more about what suits your room better. At one time I was so focused on buying the biggest and most expensive floorstanders that I could buy, without thinking if they actually worked well in my room. Now I've done some re-thinking and are looking for the perfect sounding stand mount speakers with the most balanced sound for my room. I may add a couple of subs if needed and then upgrade my amp to get the sound I'm looking for. I'm even considering a couple of speaker kits.
Thank you Danny. I love your honesty and directness. I am a GR Research customer and I truly believe your attention to detail, logic, and thoughtful design put you on levels above so many high end speaker manufacturers. The proof is in the design.
Greatly appreciated, thanks a lot. I see it was an emotional topic for you and you are absolutely right. Learn from people with decent experience, like yourself and dont blame like a fool. Also dont focus on purely be an Audiophile superstar, like some do! Thanks a lot, if i visit Texas next year, i'll drop by :-) greats from Germany!!
In 30 years of pro audio design including in home design, acoustics can make or break the best of equipment. With proper acoustics lesser equipment sounds better. There are alot of acoustic tricks I've learned over the years. Some big, some little but they all help. And you don't have to spend stupid money ( carbon nano technology lol) to get good results. A little money can get you the majority of needed improvements. The way to do it is NOT buy stuff labeled "acoustical". All materials are acoustical. You just need to know the physics and what stuff does. I have fixed reflective issues with lamps or a ceiling mounted light fixture as well as other "things". A little work can make a huge difference.
Good sir! You wouldn’t per chance be able to recommend some learning on this topic would you please? I have learned exactly as you say through various means but it would be fantastic to know of a quality resource (something I am unable decipher with my lack of experience!) to learn about how to improve that side of things on my own. Would really appreciate any advice!
@@donquixoteupinhere I don't know of any "books" on diy acoustic solutions. I can explain alot of it but not in a you tube comment. The best thing I can say is study basic physics, absorption, reflection (especially relative to wavelengths), diffraction, resonances, stored energy, standing waves, time arrival, etc. It's an accumulation of reading, talking with others, observations, experimentation and a lot of thought and contemplation. A mind open to ideas outside of convention is helpful also. Combine that with the study of physics. I know that is vague and I apologize for that. Some of my conclusions fly in the face of conventional thinking but by experimentation and execution, I have confirmed the ideas I use. Again it is just too much to put into a youtube comment.
@@donquixoteupinhere
I've read most all of what's out there. And for what you're asking, ... I'd suggest;
- Newell's Studio Acoustic Design - Everest's Master Acoustics
- Toole's Sound Reproduction
Supplements for more deep a dive;
- Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers by Cox and D'Antonio
- Designer John Brandt has a solid online collection of material and tools for studio design.
- Siegfried Linkwitz' likely has the best online A to Z examination of the challenges of capture and reproduction, our hearing, and of course loudspeaker playback in residential rooms.
- Finally, a single condensed read;
"Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms" ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#:~:text=Ethan%20Winer%20is%20co%2Dfounder,%2C%20acoustician%2C%20and%20college%20instructor.
I know that seems like a lot, but that's just the best essentials.
@@FOH3663 I haven't read them all. But I am sure it is good knowledge to be sure. A lot of what I have learned has been from trial and adjustment, from analysing other facilities and reusing what worked. As well as professors.
@@jked7463 appreciate the guidance! I have some knowledge of this but I am more of a computer scientist than a scientist these days! I never had a good physics teacher in school either though now it’s something I’m most interested in
Danny I just spent 45 minutes watching your original video, and 45 minutes watching Jay's response to that video, and of course this video... Dude why did you even bother making this response video? They are just a couple of green kids that have no idea what they are talking about. They have no comprehension of what you were trying to say. I remember being that age decades ago and no one could tell me shirt either, because I was young and knew it all. I had to get old to realise I didn't know a fraction of what I thought I knew.
They don't understand what it means to have experience, because they are too young to know any different. As Cat Stevens once wrote "You're still young, that's your fault
There's so much you have to know". Jay struck me as being quiet intelligent, but in typical millennial fashion failed to grasp the deeper meaning in your words. They are all about the here and now and being paid for their efforts, and don't want to put in the unpaid hard yards, or understand wanting to help others without a profit being involved.
At the end of their video the guy on the right went into character assassination mode, just proving that he had no solid argument or rebuttal. I am a little older than you (not much) but I have seen my fair share of audio snake oil salesman in the four decades I have been in this hobby, and would consider myself a reasonable judge of character, and you are definitely not one. To a millennial that doesn't understand our generation, and understand what it means to do things for the love of it, they will never understand or want to understand what you are saying. They completely missed the point of the video which was to raise the bar, not a self promotion tour they took it to be.
The fact that they went on about being quietly spoken like it was some ploy to trick people into buying an idea or product just shows they have no understanding of humility, or what it means to find it hard to talk about confrontational topics. You are clearly a quiet guy who is very humble trying to making a living. You clearly know more about audio than 99% of the pros out there, but they have no interest in leveraging your experience because they "know it all". It is the curse of youth.
If I ever make it to America I will definitely be looking you up because the more I watch of your videos the more I think you could teach me. These guys are downright foolish if they don't take you up on your offer to be schooled. Maybe it is just age talking, but I know I still have a lot to learn even after four decades, your advanced level of knowledge is obvious to those of us with some understanding. Pride is not going to stand in my way of learning from someone who knows way more than I do.
These guys are never going to be anything more than mediocre reviewers because they want to the quick fix. They don't get that knowledge is accumulated over time by having been there and done that, by going through the process of trying different things, this only comes with years or decades of experience. Like most millennials they think their one single idea is the only idea. Keep the videos coming and I'll keep watching, and thank you for all that you do, it is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
I could not make it through their video. Fifteen minutes in and they hadn't yet made a valid point. They are at that stage of learning some refer to as " unconscious ignorance " . I think they are probably stuck there as they are too arrogant to ever realize thatvthey don't already know it all.
@@andrewkelly1225 and there we have the definition of youth... I was no different, I thought I knew it all till I got old enough to know different. Now I'm not sure what I know. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I might not have known anything about anything, but I had confidence I was right. Now I second guess myself on everything I do.
Well said, I watched there video and they are just don’t know what they are talking about and basically just talking without thinking about what comes out of there face. They are just kids who need to listen more and learn before they have the understanding of that they say. They just sound uneducated.
@@stevenpaul3886 the truly sad part of all of this, is I bet that far more young people listen to their opinion, and take it as an informed one, then do to Danny's. There is a lot of ignorance out there, and it is drawn to it's own. There is absolutely nothing that you can do about it but wait for them to live long enough to realise that hey maybe I didn't know it all.
Hi Danny, you are not the one who is arrogant. I think the others are who have not understood what you are trying to explain. Keep going!
@@r423sdex I would in a minute. But I don’t have the skills to build them correctly or the cash to buy a pre-built pair.
@@r423sdex truth ! No show I have seen them better yet many audio enthusiasts never heard of gsr aside from this channel.
There is simply to many speakers out there to judge that
Initiating and opening up dialogue and communication is necessary for any specific field to move forward, improve, and share opinions, ideas, share & educate members and interested participants to grow, develop, and expand their knowledge bases. Looking ahead and not back is the way to create products that will be better and to fill the needs of future audiophiles.
Long ago some early record producers and audio engineers would mix their early rock & roll and country music on inexpensive “car speakers” because that was the focus group they were targeting with their products. It’s come along way since then.
Thanks Danny!
Very well said, love that you are actually concerned about growing the hobby and industry. I speak from experience, Danny does not want all your money. He wants you to learn and enjoy.
This is great. One of my favorite parts is addressing how much you spend vs how much other people spend on their systems. I used to do auto-audio bass competitions. I had an incredible stereo in my car, speaker placement was one of my criteria before I bought it so I wouldn't have to do any extra fabrication outside of the subwoofer enclosure.
I was running an $80 amp and a $120 subwoofer tied into an older Panasonic deck that had SRS WOW and 5 V pre-outs with a 7 band equalizer, no dancing lights and BS ($400).
My technically budget system at 350W RMS was blowing away dudes that spent thousands of dollars on high end gear up to 1000 watts but didn't know how to set it up or pick complementary components.
I was overpowering my sub but the signal chain was super clean so I wasn't worried about blowing the coils.
Just because you throw a lot of money at something and buy all the most expensive gear doesn't mean your results will be good at all. Too much money and too little sense is a bad combination.
There are two things that matter in business...love for what you do and experience. Manufacturing loudspeakers that work fine at the customer's place is not easy and adding some degree of innovation may takes a very long R&D phase. I used to watch GR Research videos because I find new perspectives and ideas here and the approach to loudspeaker network is extremely professional. After being in business since a relatively long time I probably know 1 other engineer with that deep knowledge and expertise from Germany (printed loudspeaker review). Provocations don’t hurt but may be annoying if they are addressed the wrong way...
I watch because it is clear Danny is speaking from experience. However, when he says that you are not qualified until you believe in expensive speaker cables, he might as well be a pastor saying you are not a real Christian until you speak in tongues! Since Danny mentioned Gene (Audioholics), it's only fair to point out that Gene has a very thorough video debunking expensive speaker cables. In the video Gene also admits he has expensive cables, even though he is confident they make no difference. Why? Because he likes them! I think this is something audiophiles need to do more often--admit that sometimes their choices are made for reasons other than improving sound quality. And it is ok to buy things you like. It's your project, your hobby, and your escape; make it yours.
In physics terms, I believe there are specific instances where higher quality cables can yield benefits, but I forget the exact details of that. Perhaps iirc the distance the cable travels is relevant. Not trying to argue with you, I have heard a mixture of things over the years and I’ve recently moved into the camp of believing they can matter but you must understand why they matter to know when to apply them.
Chap’s name on here who made the video is ‘A British audiophile’. Since I believe in balancing my views I’m going to have a look at both the channel poster’s video and the one you mentioned! Thanks
@@donquixoteupinhere The resistance of a cable is the main thing affected by cable length. Gauge needs to increase as length increases, to keep resistance low. The connections Danny talks about all the time also add resistance. There is a figure for what an acceptable resistance value is, but I don't recall what it is at the moment. It's a case of diminishing returns, where you don't benefit from crazy big speaker wires, but tiny high resistance wires definitely hurt performance. And you gotta be careful, because Gene talks about expensive cables that measure worse than a generic 12ga speaker wire.
WhiteTrashEvangelicals aren't Christians
If I had an invite from GR to hang out, listen and learn more about sound I'd take it.
Coming to see you in June to pick up my speaker that you guys designed a crossover for. Can't wait to hear and see your stuff!
Couldnt agree more. So many videos are so speculative of the reviewer’s situation (aka the room). You seen it with a few channels, once they refined the acoustics of the room, all of a sudden videos of the nature: oops I was wrong” start coming out. But there is much more that they dont check, impedance matching, voltage fluctuations… etc. Some rooms and systems could be colored so much, that changing some components only reveal a fraction of what that component actually does, that it makes a lot of what reviewers say, subjective to how they can test. And I believe your system is miles above many commercial setups. At some point in your journey, you start understanding what components within your components are providing in the sound you hear, and realize, that to surpasse your existing sonic experience the answer sits with solutions that are not answered by buying or changing gear. When I didnt know anything, I had 50k in components in a treated room, today, I have less then 15k in the same treated room with a sonic experience that dwarfs anything I had before or heard with simple commercial components mixed rigs. The difference is the mix of diy and customizable commercial components that I can taylor to fill in the gaps i want filled and enhance what I want enhanced to have the best possible sound wave run through all the components, with as little bottlenecks as possible. (If any).
You sir are the rare individual who is committed to selflessly helping all of us enthusiasts. Your sincerity is completely obvious . Also, there are other U-Tubers who do what you do & are also sincere. Personally, I've received a lot of valuable assistance from y'all. I've bought gear after watching / reading many reviews from pros like yourself, who have access to all that gear. and, U know what, each of those purchases worked out real well. Thank U all for what you do !
So well said and done, Danny. I appreciate you and your perspective. You're a genuine, no-nonsense guy with decades of knowledge and experience. I believe that combination is often rare to find, so when others find it, they don't know what to make of it and react in their own point of view. Thank you for your efforts and keeping open communication even with others who simply throw vitriol and opinions. Cheers!👍🙂
Could not agree more Danny. Glad you cleared that up mate.
It's strange that you should say you have not seen Jays order. I was wondering that too, so I queried him about 2 weeks ago regards that.This was his reply to me verbatum : "They are back-ordered quite a bit. Still looking for either new or used. "
Hoping that does not beg an obvious question for Jay to answer.
Loll
I purchased and built a pair of X-Statiks. They are amazing! Danny's products are phenomenal
Oh thank you!!!! Great rap Danny. Spot on. Honesty is not ego. Happy to hear your truthful response to those who like the word 'snakeoil'. Nothing can replace practice and learning with an open ear and mind!
Jay I watch you channel too.
Listen to Danny, he's opened up as a mentor. You're going to take a road trip.
Make it real and professional...
Great stuff Danny
Sorry late to the video, Danny you are spot on. The consumer today has to evaluate the YT reviewers and qualify & quantify them on all MY criteria. Do we listen to the same types of music, out of the same equipment do I hear the same nuances? It goes on and on. I like you grew up where you could go and hear a particular pair of speakers, try out different amps and so on. It's very rare today and as we research for the best product for the best price for our own listening. In the end, if we're not having fun, it's not worth our time. Keep up the great work and we who already know the truth in what you are saying are still behind you!
Two thumbs up! Thanks Danny for making it easier to climb the slope to audio nirvana. BTW, I know Danny’s system is the best because I saw the episode on his secret high tech cable lifters.
This is good conversation to have! Cool video.
I watched this video with amazement. You have a soft, non-threatening voice and presence. It serves you well. Unfortunately, it masks a great deal of arrogance. You deny it repeatedly, but long ago I learned to beware of he/she who protests too loudly. I'm talking about your ego. Some takeaways:
1) You lump UA-cam reviewers on the cable issue as if they all thought pricey cables are snake oil. I watch a lot of UA-cam reviewers and don't hear that.
2) Of course listening space impacts sound quality. However, I can't think of a reviewer I watch that does not specify that their observations are for their listening space.
In addition, there are as many opinions about what constitutes good acoustics as there are experts in the field. I recall the multiple times that highly professional acousticians tried to improve Chicago's Orchestra Hall only to screw it up each time. If UA-cam reviewers had to have near-ideal acoustics to do their work there would not be too many reviews. Perhaps you would like that.
3) You invite them to learn from you as if so many decades in the business automatically qualify you as an expert. Experience does not competence make. What experience should do is make you more open-minded.
4) You miss the point of reviews. You may not need them for Marketing, but your customers need them to see if others concur with your claims. Your view on this is very self-centered, hardly customer-centric.
5) Inviting reviewers to come to Texas to learn from you is pure arrogance. Do you want to mold the new generation in your image? Sure they are imperfect, but so are you. It is hard to tell when you don't submit your work to a variety of opinions. People do make comments in your forum. Those are much harder to access than where your critique appeared in Jay's channel. I know, I tried to access them. You have to first be a member and have submitted at least three postings before you can gain access.
You have at first glance a compelling, reasonable approach, advocating for a discussion. But a discussion is never one-way. What would you like to teach the young ones? I'd like to know. I'm sure they would too. You can flatter them all you want, but what would you like to learn from the new generation?
I’ll think you need to go down to Danny’s place and have this conversation and get the same information, teaching, as he offers the young lads. Danny has repeatedly said in his other videos, to everybody, come down to TX and listen for yourself. Call me, he’s saying. Haven’t you heard that? If so, then I understand your angry comment. Or is it so that you got angry for not being invited? I’m humble and eager to learn new stuff although I’m soon pension leave.
I appreciate your feedback, but you have mistaken my honesty for arrogance and my experience for ego. I have been at this for a long time. My products have been reviewed by every magazine and won every industry award. I have won the highest awards at shows as well. So when I speak of things it is not from my own imagination, but from years of well founded facts and experience.
My goal is to make the new generation of reviewers better. Since my video calling them out several have taken big strides to step up their game. Some of totally revamped and upgraded their rooms. Jay recently reviewed a high end cable and cable risers. He is now singing a different tune than he was a few months ago as I was being criticized for cables. Baby steps, but I'll take it. They are learning and getting better already.
@@rikardekvall3433 Do you know what is arrogant? Assuming that I need Danny's guidance. You don't know a thing about my background and experience. I've been at this longer than Danny, since I was 11 years old and helping my Dad repair tube gear for clients on our dining room table. I'm 73 now. It reminds me of religious zealots who assume people need to be saved even though they may already be.
Danny commits a number of mistakes. The most obvious is assuming that the younger generation of reviewers is like Jay. They are not. Lumping all "lads" into one pot is unfair and unwarranted. If you have not seen enough of them and their work, watch them.
Don't take Danny's word at face value. He certainly has a convincing manner but the arrogance and the ego are transparently there if you don't put him on a pedestal. Putting ourselves on a pedestal is a marker for arrogance.
I'd love to hear Danny talk about how he himself can get better. What are his opportunities for improvement? When you are critical of others, you'd better be ready to be critical of yourself. We all have areas where we can be better. Not looking inwards while wanting others to change is a marker for arrogance.
I totally agree what the young generation need to listen. The soundstaging, the details, the pinpoints. It is easy to hear if you have setup properly. I used to sell high end too. You can't hear the difference, you are not gonna to buy. Even there is a difference, it is not the buy decision. Where is whole lots more to make payments for $100k speaker cable. Back to soundstaging, details, pinpoints....etc there are limits that you can take. I had setup 2C3D before. It was wow. The details, the soundstage, layerings especially you are playing Reference Recording from keith johnson. Any components from that system was so hard to sell. Treatment, the electronics and cable, they were engineered as a whole. Worst of all, not to everyone cup of tea. Not the majority one like those vocal audiophile. That the best system they can heard, but buy?Nope. They have their taste of music. Missing out of these four brand to make 2C3D, you are not getting there too. As dealer you have to bite, listen and describe how the difference are. Otherwise, it is just hard selling. People really need to travel more to listen to high end gears. Especially for show, you can really know from the good and bad. You have to hear the good and bad.
@@armandorancano6415 Please Armando, calm down before you get a stroke. Danny is an American and when they know, or do good, they let you know. Remember that. He’s been working with speakers, crossovers and sound for the major part of his life and won some big awards. Seen and heard a lot of speakers, so I think he have some huge knowledge. Your knowledge in tubes tells you good, but it’s not speakers. When Danny does his upgrade videos, he does show confidence (some call it arrogance and ego) in what he has done and what the end result got to be. Many people get mad because he changed a speaker that they own and that they have payed a lot for such a bad performer and need a upgrade to be even with what they really paid for the speaker. Some get’s offended. Some understand when Danny’s talking about how the market works and what’s inside, not only outside look and brand.
About Jay, so is he a rising star within this small world on UA-cam. He’s good but needs to slow down a little. He wants to say so much that he gets stressed, not eager. Knowledge and confidence gives a more mature sense. As Danny says, Jays the coming star.
When you have a system/rig like Danny (and many more Cost is no object men), it have a great sound and any small improvement which improves the sound is their goal. Upgraded cables, crossover, connecting are these small tweaks that might improve the sound, little. But little change here and there, makes a big change in the end. This might not include systems from your local BestBuy or Amazon.
Everyone that watch Danny’s videos and get offended need to watch Vinyl Attacks video about his visit to Texas. Where he talks about adults. Calm down and have a nice Sunday.
Danny, I love this video. Some Reviewers are hypocrites. If you watch their channels all of a sudden they are fixing rooms, doing treatments, diy, cable lifters etc. It all hit them and they cant admit it. I dont like that because they are trying to get sympathy to gain subscribers. Sometimes it becomes dirty business.
“All the little things, add up to big things” 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I left a comment on their video. One of the key points I had mentioned was what Danny is talking about... the room allows you to really hear what the speakers can do.
I was fortunate enough to listen to a $100K two-channel system "back in the day". It was part of what was called a "2C3D" system. It was, of course, in a fully-treated room.
This system was the first time I'd ever heard a true 3D imaging of sound. And the detail of the vocals and instruments were TRULY next level. And even more amazing was that it was the first (and last) time I'd heard VERTICAL differentiation in where the instruments were (classical orchestra, from instruments up front, but down low to the drums high and in the back)!
It blew my mind! And I'd owned pretty good equipment (for their time: NAD, M&K, etc). But it was nothing compared to the way this system sounded.
Since then I've listened to many nice systems, running up to $20-30K, but they didn't compare to that one system. But it did give me a basis for comparison and taught me what to listen for.
I hope that they take Danny up on his offer and that they get an opportunity to hear what I did so they will be able to hear the limitations of the equipment they review.
I left a comment there too that jay came from working in high end store so he should know the value of room treatment.
@@freone111 Yeah, I guess Jay might/should know. But there is a difference between companies that claim to be high-end and those that actually are.
I've seen companies claim to be high-end because they are dealers for B&W, M&K, Marantz, Denon, etc, but those manufacturers, while they get good press and have decent products, are really only mid-tier. And those same manufacturers have tiered dealers. They don't let all of their dealers sell the truly high-end stuff because not many if them can support the top products.
Don't get me wrong, they have some good products, but even their top-tier products are only upper middle-tier or lower upper-tier in the big picture.
There is some "snake oil" out there. But there is also some real stuff. I don't know how Danny's stuff sounds, but if I get a chance to get over to (North Central) Texas again, I'm going to try really hard to swing by GR-Research for a listen. I'm really curious about how these open-baffle speakers compare to that 2C3D system I heard so long ago.
I don't know about others, but I do watch video reviews mostly to get info about design, build quality, usability, small details, special features, UI design, etc. If there are any personal dealbreakers. All those small things that are not easily found on written reviews. If I want audio quality review, I can find this info somewhere else. It's of course great if a reviewer gives detailed audio insights, but it's not the main point for me.
Jay is a decent guy with a good heart. lots to learn about life, tho. he completely missed the point.
keep up the great work.
oh, one more thing, yeah, those shorts are a little short.
Not for our generation. Shorts are way too long today.
@@geoffreydebrito2653 , i agree shorts are too long today..... still, DRs are a little too short for sitting in front of a camera.
I find it hard to believe that the cable issue is still out there. In the 80s people were going at each other in a lot of magazines about it, especially Speaker Builder and Audio Amateur, A friend and I switched out cables, changed caps , coils and wire in the speakers, each one made a difference.
I build speakers, and alligator clips (for testing crossover components) sound different to a normally connected crossover. And a soldered crossover sounded more "brittle" than a twisted wire connection crossover. The non soldered crossover sounded better! A more "silky" sound. I do solder my crossovers but I also have a twisted connection for that "silky sound". But isn't the binding post a non soldered connection? Yes but that is before the crossover. The non soldered connection has to be between the crossover and the driver (or on the crossover like my non soldered crossover). The driver is also soldered but there is a twisted connection between the soldered crossover and the soldered driver.
The cable issue is still out there, legitimately so, because it's a bit more complex than what you are letting on. As I see it, the "no difference" crowd is merely saying that if you put a competent cable up against an incompetent cable i.e. one that (and not to its' credit) colors the sound or augments/depresses certain frequencies, then sure, switching a bad cable for a good cable is going to reveal sound differences. But if you put two competent cables up against each other i.e cables that do not color the cound or inhibit or amplify certain frequencies, then there's no scientific, plausible reason to hear a difference. It would be like asking which brand 90 octane gasoline will make a car run faster. All cable can do competently is 100% transfer a signal. I believe that is essentially the argument I hear being made by the "no difference" crowd.
@@dap777754 that’s why there’s a whole different octane formula used in race cars… put that in our everyday drive and it is “snake oil”… put octane 90 in a race car and they can kiss the race goodbye… still snake oil?
@@r423sdex there’s no complexity in ignorance…
When i entered the audio world (2000ish) I read about cables and their supposed differences. 2 weeks after I purchased my 1st amp I bought a pair of Monster rca's to replace the zip..... Wow!!...Instantly I began my a-phile journey, 20+ yrs later still tweaking to my hearts content...snake oil my a**...
The response to your previous video was strange, who knew the various reviewers were so fragile and arrogant. Keep up the great content Danny!
Listen
Have fun
Learn something
Otherwise you’re not ready yet,
Experience is everything
Thanks Dan!
Very, very informative and needed! If you know that you know and others know it too, that's not bragging. Confucius said
“He Who Knows And Knows That He Knows Is A Wise Man - Follow Him;
He Who Knows Not And Knows Not That He Knows Not Is A Fool - Shun Him”
Learn from those people who know what they're talking about and what they're doing.
Jay, dude! you didn’t place a order? Man I definitely lost some respect for you if that’s the case. Please take Danny’s offer and go to Texas it will make for great videos. 🔈👍🏻 hopefully your recent experience with CSS audio gives you a interest with what Danny has to offer
Me too!!!! That’s just flat out lying. Wasn’t click bait or a joke he flat out lied while trashing someone else and in my opinion trashing Danny for lack of understanding what Danny was trying to accomplish.
🤣🤣
He did put in an order. Check his channel.
Says he did but wont say order number 😂
Very nicely said Danny.Did not know what to make of you at first,but watching your stuff I can see that you are a wizened audio man who needs to be taken seriously.Take care and keep on spreading the knowledge.
Hey Danny. I'm so glad I found you out here in this space. Your real world knowledge just keeps destroying all the hype out here. For a speaker to have any chance of pleasing you. Man they really gotta come with their A game. You remind me a lot of Dodd Audio. Where he would tweek.....listen.....tweek.....listen......tweek some more....listen....until those preamps sounded perfect.
Keep doing what you are doing. This space is filled with so much BS from manufactures and reviewers. So we really need you.
Thank you. Gary Dodd was one of my best friends and we spent many hours together listening and comparing stuff.
What happend to the Klipsch Heresy iv review?, seems to have disappeared, I wanted to watch again before (if) I pull the trigger on them
No one has ever sent in any of the Heresy models.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks Danny, be interesting to see on the bench
You are correct, little things make a big difference. One time I said to a reviewer, you know, that if he wanted to improve his sound stage, take off his hat. He put me down for that comment. That told me his ears were not trained well enough. If he is supposed be reviewing this stuff, then he should be able to hear it.
The room and location in the room are absolutely everything in audio yet many do not get it.
But he's implying Wilson, et al don't get it. And then using an opinion from RMAF to back up his claim. My fave room at Axpona was a hotel room, easy to set up compared to a ballroom or conference room. No way would his X-Oticas hold a candle in the same room as a Wilson with the same variables.
With your patience and intellect, you've shone us wisdom. You've bin profesional, a gentleman and a scaller, despite the banter of others, thank you, well sed and well taut Sir.
I am kind of taking both sides for this debate. The main statement should be "I know enough to know I don't know it all".
As time goes on, as to infinity and beyond, you have to remember that there is always someone that knows (or thinks they know) more.
As for me it is good to know that Danny wants to create the best quality product that will work well in a normal environment because it also works in the best. However only rich people or those that beyond their means can afford a dedicated room (will never be possible in the UK for the middle class) Others that are providing reviews base their opinions on a basic room from a basic house with basic treatment. That's 99.9% of the buying public.
That said Danny's speakers are great value in the US but not do great value when having to be shipped overseas. Based on this I have a pair of X-Statix's rather the NX-Oticas. By the time I have them shipped their outrageous. Really need an overseas distributor or at a minimum the option to by all kits without the flat pack (you really can get them laser cut anywhere nowadays)
I know Danny said he doesn't need any more business but something to think about.
You can get most of our kits without the flat packs. Only the NX Series models require CNC cutting. And we also have negotiated rates with UPS that make shipping overseas pretty reasonable.
I am with you Danny! I am ready to be a Reviewer but I have not done so yet. I am still floored when people claim cables don't matter when I clearly hear they do! There is so much Miss Information out there its crazy as Politics.....
the cable difference problem to me is not the cables but the lack of reasons why X sounds different from Y on a technical level that are honest.
Danny, you always explain your crossover changes , why you pick part X , a graph showing before and after. But Other companies let the marketing department "just make up stuff "
When it sounds like someone is lying about cable differences or can't explain why they are difference people tune out.
Cables can make a difference. Most of the cables I deal with ( carry a digital signal ) when I hearing a difference is a sign something is wrong. Damaged cable, under-spec'd cable, system is not grounded correctly etc.
In the May issue of "Stereophile," writer Herb Reichert made the same complaint, "Today, the websites of most audio companies are long on fancy photos and hyperbolic sales pitches and short on facts, relevant specifications, reasonable viewpoints, and prices." I agree completely. Why is good information so hard to find?
To your credit Jay has invested 20k in room treatment since your video calling out the reviewers. Andrew Robinson did DIY full range corner traps floor to ceiling. The guy who reviews from his bedroom is pretty proud of how his 7X10 space sounds.
Since the other Sean knows what his bedroom sounds like, I trust him with electronics reviews. However as it stands I suspect his speaker reviews for that reason.
Jay also recently reviewed cables and cable risers. He was quite surprised especially by the cable risers. Funny isn't it how he and his buddy were criticizing me for that stuff a few months ago.
@@dannyrichie9743 true but at least he’s starting to listen to his audio daddy Danny. He will come around. Jay’s a good boy.
Danny, attack OCD hifi guy. That would be epic.
Does "moving speakers out into the room" apply mainly to ported system and especially "rear" ported systems? With a sealed box or acoustic suspension system does the position "out in the room have a lesser effect?
It applies to all speakers.
Dan the MAN! I wondered if Jay actually bought the GR speaker kit. Kinda disappointed with that. He should rethink what he posts.
He bought the CSS 1tdx kit
Great video Danny.
In my opinion anyone serious about reviewing products via the UA-cam platform should take you up on your offer to come listen to your system otherwise they are just in it for profit.
Would love a list of channels that took you up on the offer so I can continue to support them and remove the rest.
Oh.. yes. I am not a speaker expert, my hobby is amplifier design. But I totally agree and support this statement. Love it.
as long as 90% of the "reviewers" judge amps by knocking on the case you are absolutely correct Danny. And this whole Wilson Audio thing, the old Wilson (rip) had one awesome speaker (Watt&Puppy), the rest of the line was pretty much average stuff. I am always laughing my ass off when somebody claims "Oh I am a big WA expert, I had 4 different WA already" and then you find out that he really had all the crappy WA speakers but completely skipped the only good one. Oh what a pro. LOL
@@r423sdex is it really true? What's more valuable 1% 1st and 2nd order harmonic distortion or 0.01% nasty distortion spectrum? IMO it is important to understand what you are dealing with.
In my experience, the best teachers don’t tell their students that they know everything. That’s how your ‘honesty’ comes across.
While I agree with pretty much everything Danny said in this video, "I want to make you better at what you do" just isn't a good way to position his offer. There are many other ways to do this that won't be taken as an insult and are more likely to get people to come visit. 'You can attract more bees with honey than you can with vinegar' comes to mind.
@GR-Research What review sources do you recommend listening to? A major issue today is the lack of ability to try before you buy. Dealers have such a limited selection that it is hard to discern what is out there and what is really special. I am curious based on this video what your opinions are on the sound of various speakers. You only show measurements and never really say anything about how things sound. I think expecting to listen to every option on the market is totally unreasonable unless you have an unlimited budget and time so finding reviewers you can trust is key. I also totally agree with you on the room. I listened to a pair of focal chora's in one room and they sounded horrible. I heard them again with probably $30k worth of electronics in a better room and they blew me away. I bought them the next day :). They sound fantastic!
If you aren't treating your room and you're doing a review, you're not telling me how the gear sounds so much as you are telling me how your room sounds.
It is there room after all.
That's flawed logic.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt that's a flawed comment
The whole point of treating the room is to try and get rid of what makes the room sound a particular way (i.e. echoes, reflected sounds, ringing, etc). The goal is to hear less room and more speaker. If you don't treat your room, or luck out and have a room that is accoustically dead, you're listening to your speakers in a bad sounding room, not just your speakers.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt echo is when old sound compete with new sound. and sound hit a surface it reflect and could change sound wave. bass response is depend on room type. newbie!
Room treatment make big difference, true. But good cables benefits is very small compare to the HUGE problem of mastering and recording quality! I'm a sound engineer and I can tell you that arguing on cables is totally futile for most people because what they listen to sound so bad at the source. Good cables don't make a recording with 6 db boost at 6khz or horrible compression sound better or so less so. Expensive cables are "snake oil" because of that. Same thing when you compare interconnect wires on an decent amp with good headphones (like Hifiman Arya) to connecting them directly to a mojo 2 with no power cables, no interconnect... very, very small difference. Comparing that to a 10 minutes ride of a race car as a review is very funny but not at all a good comparaison in my opinion.
Danny, the tone of this video is conciliatory without back tracking on your beliefs. Great. One area I would like to see explored is "snake oil." Gene over at Audioholics has very different opinions on this topic. Based on what I can tell about the depth of his experience, I feel it is comparable to yours. Since you & he have such a dichotomy of ideas/opinions regarding "snake oil" and accepting you are two respected people in the field, it leaves folks like me at a loss as to what to believe. I will admit you leave yourself a rather large "out," by saying "If you can't hear the difference the system isn't of high enough quality."
As a thought exercise, it would be interesting for you to define commercially available "off the shelf" products (non GR-Research, without GR-Research tweaks) which are of sufficient quality/resolution, to be able to hear the difference between standard power cables of sufficient gauge to handle the loads, and what you consider exemplary cables, of your own design. I chose power cables as these, IMO, seem to be the least likely to provide any discernible difference in sound quality.
My concept on the thought exercise, is it would allow people to create a repeatable experiment without a trip to the Lone Star State...
Gene and I have been talking. We'll see what happens.
I'm glad you mentioned John Atkinson in your latest posting. Not to single him out, he's just an example. I know a lot of audiophiles look.up to him but to me he's nothing more than a glorified bench tech.
His ability to listen critically is poor just based on his own account of his live versus performance demo in his interview on Home Theater Geeks #84 about 30 minutes into it. In Maryland before a fair sized audience he recorded a performance on a Steinway D concert grand piano. After that he played it back. His audience said they enjoyed it but it didn't sound like the real piano. They tried to explain it to him but not only was he puzzled by it but worse his audience heard it but he didn't. He said he got the timbre right but the gist of what the audience told him was that it wasn't grand enough. He still seemed puzzled by it. This is with the speakers in the same room.as the source. Imagine how much worse it would be if it were in an entirely different room. And what if you were in the audience of a concert hall with the piano on the stage and you heard the recording in your listening room at home. Not remotely close. I could have picked out any of dozens, even hundreds of unqualified critics of this equipment with the same conclusion. But if your idea of music is heavy metal or Taylor Swift what you have already is IMO good enough.
Please advise if you control the humidity in your test room, and its level significantly influences how the sound waives are being transitioned in the room. Ideally you would want to listen the music in the respirator to avoid the CO2 to interfere with the frequencies. Thank me later
13:41 Some are snake oil like expensive-ass digital interconnects but analog cables (especially from shitty to decent) bring you ever so slightly closer to the original.
13:51 If a power cable negatively affects the sound, it must have a horribly undersized ampacity. Thankfully good power cables are inexpensive and aplenty.
14:19 Are those proper tests? Blindfolded and labeled "A" and "B" to eliminate the placebo effect and sighted bias via knowing which cable is connected at any moment?
You don't need to blindfold AB test. You can and not buy a $1000 speaker cable and end up with $100 one. There is a difference, but you are after that difference? All you need a good 1hour switching back and forth with your favourite tracks. Not it cost $1000, you need to buy one. You can just live on straight wire OFC.
“Thank you Danny and Crew.”
Regardless on which side of the spectrum you may fall on… There is NO ONE in this world whom can tell YOU how anything sounds better than your own ears. No difference than the best way to enjoy and drink any alcoholic beverages is the way how YOU like to drink it. You can view, read, and listen to all the reviewers in the world… it’s always up to YOU the consumer to experience and listen for yourself.
When you talk about your system are you referring to the black tower speakers behind you? Are they available for sale?
We offer them as a DIY kit.
I moved my vintage budget paradigms out into the room and realized that I've never really heard what they sound like in 40 years of owning them. Thanks for such a cheap dramatic improvement even I can hear. The X-statiks I have on order will now have placement flexibility in my rearranged room.
Jay is a rookie reviewer, his channel is pure click bait. I’m just waiting for his next Britney Spears moment. 😂🤦♂️
When Danny switched from the X-Otica to the X-Treme, he opened up a window. Even over compressed UA-cam audio I immediately heard the much larger space and better focus, the opposite of a wall of sound.
Danny. I appreciate your reviews. This video seems a little inauthentic to me tho. At the beginning of this video, you repeated over and over that your first video was for new reviewers. However, in your first video that was not clear. You were talking to ALL reviewers on your first video. It seems like you were walking back some comments on this video - trying to frame your first video in a smaller way. But not taking responsibility for the grandiose frame in the first video. A , "my bad" or something would be more authentic. Jay's response should be taken in light of your first video. If you would've approached your first video with the same tone you approached this video with, then maybe the conversation you wanted to start could've started. Conversations aren't usually started with a condescending tone
Good feedback. I am not walking anything back, and maybe I wasn't as clear on some things in the first video as I could have been. Keep in mind I don't write my videos. They are not sliced and pieced together. I start speaking from my heart and just run with my thoughts. Nothing is rehearsed. I am still pretty new and this and hopefully, I will get better.
@@dannyrichie9743 thanks for your response. My tone was to harsh to get a response from u tbh 😂. I wasn't expecting one. Good luck expanding the conversation in the future
I really like this guy.
No expert here and my familiarity with gear is limited at the highest levels. That said, I've been into audio since 1971. I'm absolutely confident that Danny is absolutely correct in his assertions because I've experienced those differences he mentions. The greatest obstacle to growth is ego and we're all susceptible to falling prey to our egos. I've noticed that far too many reviewers provide significantly limited reviews. Case in point, lots of youtube rave reviews on the new $1200. Elac Debut Reference Bookshelves. Only youtube reviewer Erin(sp?) mentioned that its major limitation is it only gets so loud. Manufacturer spec is it goes up to 96db. That's plenty loud but nowhere near how loud classical concert peaks can get, much less rock concerts. Now if vocals, chamber music and jazz are your thing, no problem. But if rock and symphonies are important you probably want to look elsewhere. Detecting and reporting on every significant plus and minus is the responsibility of the reviewer because in doing a review, the reviewer is portraying themselves as both trustworthy and competent. Especially now with so many people having no alternative to purchasing unheard equipment based on reviews.
I got a pair of Elac Debut Reference bookshelf speakers for $700 new. Are we talking about different speakers? Btw. A significant reason I got them is that the kids thought that they were flat and not that "fun".
@@TomTabaczynski Yes the speakers to which I referred are the more expensive line from Elac, the UniFI Debut Rference @ $1200.
@@geoffreydebrito2653 I see. Btw. I don't think anyone buys bookshelf speakers to listen to loud music, and it's pretty clear that these are not designed for rock music. The problem as I see is that there's a taboo in the audiophile world with respect to mentioning the music that the designer listens to or designs for. You have to read between the lines. One give away is this: if the speakers etc sound "fun" means it's probably not for classical, whereas if the designer mentions that he seeks to replicate the sound of live music he's probably listens to classical, probably chamber music because you can hear the individual instruments. That's my theory anyway. I just don't think that live rock music has a sound or in any case, a studio recording of say ACDC won't sound anything like a live concert and you don't want the latter in your room. IMO.
This issue could be made into a true audio event. Would you be willing to fight it out with Jay in a boxing ring? I am sure we can work out the details and stream the event.
No, a cage match with Gene "the bone crusher" DellaSalla would be better.
@@charlessailer4580 LMAOOOOO! good call
OMG DRAMA, HOT SILVER FOX SPEAKER COMPANY CEO CALLS OUT EVEN HOTTER YOUNG HOT HIFI AUDIOPHILE REVIEWER IN THE HOTTEST YT DRAMA SINCE JAMES CHARLES, I CAN'T HANDLE THIS LEVEL OF HOTNESS I'M GONNA LIE DOWN BEFORE I BURN UP......!!! 😁
What pisses me off is the multi thousand-dollar stuff with a buck fifty worth of parts. Sure, some gear may cost a fortune to bring to market and be worth a fortune. But, we seem inundated with ignorance led by grifters and hucksters everywhere we turn. Peace (sells but who's buyin')
I've been waiting for this...I hope the young reviewers understand that if you come off as an expert, you ought to be. too many folks that are watching these videos are trying to learn from professionals, and if you're just bringing your viewers on your journey, understand that doesn't make you a professional...just a tour guide.
Can I get a pair of these SPEAKERS for my room? I believe i got the room and electronics. Let's give them a try ?
Jay - he wants you buy them! Sales are final. Because if the bad reviews start coming in ( Oh Boy)!
I heard that one guy gets his lips done at the same place as Kylie Jenner.
Danny, you’re a better man than me. But, I’m half Sicilian, so…….my temper comes naturally.
I don't have treated room and I can hear different. Proper triangle rule, move out of the wall and listen off the wall. I have windows and have it open. I don't mind the outside sound. It just sound less echo. Sound die out faster. You gonna have sensitive system. I used to sell high end stuff too.
There are some not so young reviewers on youtube that also need to pay more attention to the room they use for reviews.
Young reviewers happen to have better hearing than older reviewers AND older speaker designers too. That's just a provable scientific fact of aging.
When are you gonna talk about your electrostatic speakers that you are working on??
4:37 I mean sure you might be able to do that if you're only looking at frequency response but as soon as you are looking at a more complete set of measurements involving radiation patterns, directivity, phase, and early reflections you'll have changed something in one of those. Send something to Erin's Audio Corner with two sets(flat/3d) and I guarantee they will measure differently on his Klippel that's more accurate than an anechoic chamber or gated windows. However if you showed those attributes yourself in the CTA2034a set of measurements I'd be more inclined to believe you.
10:30 how can you say yours is better at the same time as saying another brand wasn't setup right? Showrooms are setup quick so it's possible that you could have setup their gear in a way that sounded better than your own or that you got a better room than them.
13:45 😂😂 I guess old man Gene whos been in the industry just as long isn't ready either then and he's even an Electrical Engineer
10:30 You know nothing. It is obvious to those who have, that you’ve never been in one of Danny’s rooms at a show.
@@michaelperry3578 lol I know plenty. Done plenty of reading/watching of people with PhDs in audio like Floyd Tool. My main point is he can't say his is better if the other one is setup not optimally. Apples to oranges comparison. Literally being in different sized rooms would have a difference in how a speaker would interact with it such as room modes and SBIR cancellations and such. Another way of putting it is a $1000 system setup correctly would best Danny's speakers when setup incorrectly but it doesn't mean his speakers are worse.
I don't think you know what a Klippel measures.
@@TylerStout You can't even spell Floyd E Toole's name correctly so how can anyone take you seriously? You should watch and just keep quiet because you do know very little. I held little respect for Toole so throwing his name around isn't impressing anyone.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt not trying to impress anyone just expressing I know things. Definitely more to learn myself and there's definitely more to learn in terms of quantifying sound as what Floyd has done isn't complete but it's the best we have right now. Let me know when you have a better argument than one missing letter.
Enormous respect for you Danny. "No brag, just fact" said the old tv show. Congrats on having the courage of your convictions. When I decide to change my speakers, I'll be calling.
I will put Kharma Veyron for my listening style against anything Wilson has to offer.
I guess it's up to the viewers and consumers to watch and decide who's acting like a child and who will be mortified to watch their own video in 10 years, maybe even 5.
4:29 i recommend that if you want to improve the audio review scene, you should make a debunk video calling out reviewers that claim measurements are all they need to determine sound of a product. Sharur is famous for this, for example.
tbh, if that Chinese JBL sound engineer can speak English, he will be able to debunk whole bunch of BS from GR-Research. Sadly, he is Chinese so yall American are safe for now - from the truth.
@@GBR9794 which chinese jbl sound engineer? any links to his stuff? but what bs did gr research say?
@@Viewer13128 His username is 119鬼斧神工，he wrote so many pieces from sound engineering point of view in Mandarin and it triggered many people that makes them decided to dox him. You might be able to find his Chinese ID card and ask JBL in which people have already done it and confirmed his identity. That's all I can say.
Say NO to cheesy parts.
Everything you said was spot on Danny. You have to get the basics right otherwise all the money in the world thrown at equipment etc will be wasted.
Could you invite ASR to your place, maybe you two can teach each other a thing or two about cables ;)
ASR is currently testing your opinion.
@@hifiman4562 usually in a condescending way…
They doth protest too much.
I'm kinda disappointed being told they ordered the speakers looked right in the cameras and said done. Well see what these speakers are about! Wow!
That's really really sucks and goes straight to integrity. Somebody is selling snake oil and it ain't to impressive lying directly to attempt to damage another's business because of a butt hurt ego. F' em. Get real.
The problem i have is they said they ordered them and clicked on the website and said there, done. As in i just ordered a set of speakers from gr research. According to what Danny said there was no order. If that is true, that means they lied about ordering them and put on a act in a video for the sole purpose of deceiving the watchers into thinking they would review a set of speakers they never actually ordered. If that's true, it's pathetic petty and deceitful. That's what's wrong with that!
I didn't bother watching Jay's video but if ANYONE is deluded in this exchange it's not Danny. Even if Danny made mediocre product - and I don't believe that is the case - he has the right to ask more of a UA-camr who wants a pair to review. Email Wilson or Magico and ask them if you need room treatment etc - let us know how that works out.
Regarding the cable thing: I really don't get why the nay sayers don't try it out. Maybe at a dealer with a good setup, or else. It is that obvious. Plus it is a good test if your systems is revealing or not. If you don't hear it, maybe something is wrong with your system :-DD
You make drivers? What is your brand name?
Unfortunately some people listen to respond instead of listening to learn. Real Informative content is rare these days.
Any reason why you are not doing Ground plane measurements, more accurate than anechoic chambers just not as convenient due to weather etc ..!
If I were trying to accurately measure down low then I probably would.
Old Man Tex spittin’ out facts
Jay realizing that a DIY kit that cost over 5X cheaper then his other speaker can sound just as good or slightly better is eating him up inside. lol His justification for the extra cost is leather. LOL Thats how you know he is still wet behind the ears.
I got a kick out of that too, but on a positive note, he is listening and comparing. He also sounded pretty humbled when he recently admitted that he heard a significant difference when using some cable risers. He's learning.
Some people cannot handle objectivity.
i complete get ur point of having the best room, but wouldn't it be a fallacy for reviewers to review speakers not in a room that normal people listen in? because if they have a perfect room an give a review , people without that room wont hear what they do an that could hurt there credibility or cause people to not buy that product or force people to upgrade , but we live in a great time of audio price doesnt always mean better sound as you know, but i do understand ur saying everyone should step there game up an i agree
they don’t have the guts to visit you because they will have to admit they are wrong and know nothing…
Don't know who is Jay, but doing review in non treated room is nonsense and people that doing this stuff are very ignorant and probably at their Dunning-Kruger peaktime.
The specific comments about room treatment were not directed at Jay, but at many reviewers. However, Jay was one who made a specific video in response to Danny's video. Jay Lee has a good UA-cam channel called "Jay's Iyagi." The word Iyagi is a Korean term meaning story or history I believe. It's meant to mean that the channel is giving Jay's story of his audio quest. Jay is young, but he does have history and exposure and a good ear and he usually doesn't take himself too seriously.
His room is treated, in multiple ways. So that's a thing
Green Beginner is correct.