Can't wait to see the test with the twin Webers. I have the Bestek ignition on a Pinto with twin 40 DHLAs. Awaiting re-jetting on a rolling road to take advantage of the revised advance setting and my mildly uprated head & 134 cam. In the meantime, starting is certainly improved over points..
with a DVG Weber copy you can run the numbers as well, on a standard engine by tuning it properly. It even may give more low down performance. As with the dizzy conversion, it is a small but for money spend good game i think. It last longer too as with points burning in...in time. many years ago I used elektronic parts from Microdynamics and Lumenition. If they are still around i dont know. For road use i would go and do best on a classic car just with points dizzy. Even with mild fast road setup, you wouldnt care about the last 2 HP and change the contacts points is no big deal if they are still available . get them in by 2 or 3 sets for backup
i have run chinese copy webers, power wise they make the same power as the real thing. sidedraft webers and points are a real pain, and modern points and condensors are junk so whilst i do have a few customers still using points almsot all of them now run electronic ignition
@@PenguinMotors i did'nt had points on my Kent crossflow with dcoe webers 30 years ago, it was converted to elektronic back then. I had an Aldon distributor running. It was better as the standard FoMoCo. So i don't know about the disadvantage with point's distributor. Ande surely what's on todays market replacing contactpoints on an old car. elektronic is better for sure, but just saying it may do for standard ? I had used them on stock engine, it ran good enough. So well, i looking forward to your upcoming video's and some powerruns on the dyno for comparison. Thank's
So... Did the bestek really give you more power, or did the added 5 degrees of advance give you more power.... What a test. Please atleast lean some advance into the stock distributor as well
yes the the bestek distributor did give more power, i had already maximised power i could get from the stock distributor, in fact at high rpm the bestek didnt need as much advance as the stock distributor
An interesting test, I notice a lot of V8 dyno runs seem to use up to about 37 degrees of advance at high RPM, presumably their bigger cylinders need it with flame propagation speed?
@@PenguinMotors thank you for the reply, I was genuinely curious. I do remember way back getting a recurved distributor from Aldon Automotive for a pre crossflow. My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to remember distributors not having enough centrifugal advance, if you had the right timing at high RPM they would kick back against the starter while cranking. Thank you for making these videos, proper science!
where has the extra torque come from ? increased voltage or multi spark at the plug tip, or distributer internals providing a more suitable advance curve
in a conventional petrol engine multi spark is pointless, the first spark will set fire to the mixture, any spark afterwards wont do anything and would be retarded anyway, at high rpm there isnt enough time for multispark to actually function anyway. I doubt its voltage related, you only need enough to set fire to a mixture, a bigger voltage wont do much unless you have a burn problem from a weak spark. most likely its two things, a better advance curve, meaning more high rpm advance without over advancing the midrange but also a more stable spark advance with less timing scatter
I thought your special distributor was pointless 😊 haha you will have to think about that one ! Yip lean burn engines do benefit a bit from multi spark and high voltage wide S/P gap , but yes, I suspect mostly advance curves, how about another run with the old dibi and locked plate adjusted manually at preset rpms ? @@PenguinMotors
Hi Grayham, 45weber on kart. I've noticed that dip low down on other engines, I was wondering what was causing that? Presume its a flow issue sorting itself out. 🤷♂️ Many thanks. Roger...
A dip low down can be many things, incorrect ignition advance curve, AFR issue, cam too big, carb chokes too big, the list goes on but those are the main culprits
Great explenation, one question, in One upgrade 1.6xflow engine with 1.3 +0.60 pistons, 244 cams, ported head, big vales, twin 40 webbers , what fuel Pump you recomend, elétric or mecanic
If you did would do, then its leaving not much for an overhaul on cylinderbore. You gain torque alright by the saying "no substitude for cubic inches" I would rather go and seek for a 1600 cc crossflow block to build up. A, 1320 cc leaves enough to rebuild by bore once or two more. 1340 cc i would guess tops in the end by just boresize. Good information to read...1300sportproject.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/2/6902905/ford_kent_crossflow.pdf
When setting max advance do you check idle advance anyway has idle advance on JONs kits make a big difference and the start up hot or cold with best tek is far superior to any other kit. Ive fitted so many of Jon's kit's and every customer has always said how much better the cars drives and responds
i do look at idle advance but usually only as a reference to set the timing is somewhere near correct, before properly running the engine and setting the timing at high rpm, idle timing is fairly meaningless, a few degrees either way doesnt hurt, a few degrees wrong @4000 can be an engine killer
@@waynewigger9904 if you have the CORRECT advance curve low speed will be near enough correct with high speed correct, setting timing looking at only low speed is asking for a dead engine, there is a very good reason why in the days before datalogging etc old school dyno opererators used to swing ignition timing at peak torque. Seeing as i use his distributors i think if i was doing it wrong Jon from Bestek would tell me
not much gained on a summers day, but the electronic dizzy gains a massive advantage on a cold wet winters day with a weak battery...
Biggest advantage is not having to remove the DCOE's to replace points!
Can't wait to see the test with the twin Webers. I have the Bestek ignition on a Pinto with twin 40 DHLAs. Awaiting re-jetting on a rolling road to take advantage of the revised advance setting and my mildly uprated head & 134 cam. In the meantime, starting is certainly improved over points..
with a DVG Weber copy you can run the numbers as well, on a standard engine by tuning it properly. It even may give more low down performance.
As with the dizzy conversion, it is a small but for money spend good game i think. It last longer too as with points burning in...in time.
many years ago I used elektronic parts from Microdynamics and Lumenition. If they are still around i dont know.
For road use i would go and do best on a classic car just with points dizzy. Even with mild fast road setup, you wouldnt care about the last 2 HP
and change the contacts points is no big deal if they are still available . get them in by 2 or 3 sets for backup
i have run chinese copy webers, power wise they make the same power as the real thing. sidedraft webers and points are a real pain, and modern points and condensors are junk so whilst i do have a few customers still using points almsot all of them now run electronic ignition
@@PenguinMotors i did'nt had points on my Kent crossflow with dcoe webers 30 years ago, it was converted to elektronic back then. I had an Aldon distributor running. It was better as the standard FoMoCo. So i don't know about the disadvantage with point's distributor. Ande surely what's on todays market replacing contactpoints on an old car. elektronic is better for sure, but just saying it may do for standard ? I had used them on stock engine, it ran good enough. So well, i looking forward to your upcoming video's and some powerruns on the dyno for comparison.
Thank's
So... Did the bestek really give you more power, or did the added 5 degrees of advance give you more power.... What a test. Please atleast lean some advance into the stock distributor as well
yes the the bestek distributor did give more power, i had already maximised power i could get from the stock distributor, in fact at high rpm the bestek didnt need as much advance as the stock distributor
An interesting test, I notice a lot of V8 dyno runs seem to use up to about 37 degrees of advance at high RPM, presumably their bigger cylinders need it with flame propagation speed?
big open chambers also require more advance
@@PenguinMotors thank you for the reply, I was genuinely curious. I do remember way back getting a recurved distributor from Aldon Automotive for a pre crossflow. My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to remember distributors not having enough centrifugal advance, if you had the right timing at high RPM they would kick back against the starter while cranking. Thank you for making these videos, proper science!
Are there any plans for the pinto strip down part 2 vid?
yes its in the pipeline
where has the extra torque come from ? increased voltage or multi spark at the plug tip, or distributer internals providing a more suitable advance curve
in a conventional petrol engine multi spark is pointless, the first spark will set fire to the mixture, any spark afterwards wont do anything and would be retarded anyway, at high rpm there isnt enough time for multispark to actually function anyway. I doubt its voltage related, you only need enough to set fire to a mixture, a bigger voltage wont do much unless you have a burn problem from a weak spark. most likely its two things, a better advance curve, meaning more high rpm advance without over advancing the midrange but also a more stable spark advance with less timing scatter
I thought your special distributor was pointless 😊 haha you will have to think about that one ! Yip lean burn engines do benefit a bit from multi spark and high voltage wide S/P gap , but yes, I suspect mostly advance curves, how about another run with the old dibi and locked plate adjusted manually at preset rpms ? @@PenguinMotors
Hi Grayham,
45weber on kart.
I've noticed that dip low down on other engines, I was wondering what was causing that?
Presume its a flow issue sorting itself out. 🤷♂️
Many thanks.
Roger...
A dip low down can be many things, incorrect ignition advance curve, AFR issue, cam too big, carb chokes too big, the list goes on but those are the main culprits
Great explenation, one question, in One upgrade 1.6xflow engine with 1.3 +0.60 pistons, 244 cams, ported head, big vales, twin 40 webbers , what fuel Pump you recomend, elétric or mecanic
for road use a good standard mechanical pump will cope with that specification engine. for race track use i would go electric
Wich make you recomend , is a road car
@@joaoconstantino6799 Electric fuelpumps don't suffer from vapour lock, that's all that matters unless you're go for original parts only.
This presentation is like Richard Holdener, but without the enthusiasm.
Very true
Should be driving a diesel not a BCF2 equipped crossflow 😂😂
How much extra hp does using the 1300 + 90 pistons give over leaving it standard? 👍
not done a back to back test, but its a double gain more capacity, more compression, i'd say 10-12 bhp on an otherwise standard engine
If you did would do, then its leaving not much for an overhaul on cylinderbore. You gain torque alright by the
saying "no substitude for cubic inches" I would rather go and seek for a 1600 cc crossflow block to build up.
A, 1320 cc leaves enough to rebuild by bore once or two more. 1340 cc i would guess tops in the end by just boresize.
Good information to read...1300sportproject.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/2/6902905/ford_kent_crossflow.pdf
When setting max advance do you check idle advance anyway has idle advance on JONs kits make a big difference and the start up hot or cold with best tek is far superior to any other kit. Ive fitted so many of Jon's kit's and every customer has always said how much better the cars drives and responds
i do look at idle advance but usually only as a reference to set the timing is somewhere near correct, before properly running the engine and setting the timing at high rpm, idle timing is fairly meaningless, a few degrees either way doesnt hurt, a few degrees wrong @4000 can be an engine killer
@@PenguinMotors I'd say different TBH low end advance makes a big difference to slow speed driving at the lower RPM. Each to there own I guess.
@@waynewigger9904 if you have the CORRECT advance curve low speed will be near enough correct with high speed correct, setting timing looking at only low speed is asking for a dead engine, there is a very good reason why in the days before datalogging etc old school dyno opererators used to swing ignition timing at peak torque. Seeing as i use his distributors i think if i was doing it wrong Jon from Bestek would tell me