@TheDeathmail ikr, this has nothing to do with SZ but just look at 17 . He catched up with SS Blue by fighting poachers and sparring with some punny Cell Jr's lmao. Power scaling in DB doesn't make sense anymore
SS4 Goku facing basic early Vegeta: This is going to be tough SS4 Goku facing SS god Vegeta: You can never beat me So to SS4 Goku, the god forms are weaker than their starting forms???? This universal time thing really is messing with everyone.....
the characters were cool, the story was just poorly written. Baby added unique backstory to the saiyans; Super 17 gave some context to what happened with the androids given their weird "well that happened" with Cell. The black star dragons or whatever they were called all had their own themes, etc, but for some reason Goku was based on his movie logic and consistently got beaten up in normal form before going super saiyan and wiping the floor with fodder characters. As an example, for a moment, a "super saiyan" power level fought a planet... and the planet was winning.
@@nathanielbass771" story was just poorly written " Sorry to break it to u baby arc is one of the best stories in dragon ball and its very well written. Super 17 was primarily there to work as a prelude to shadow dragons and that part it did well setting up the narrative of Goku being the centre of problems with a villain from the past series and a recent from this one coming together for a revenge plot , while showing dragon balls getting cracked throughout it finally triggered by the instability brought on earth by merging hell , even if it was bad as a standalone story . Its the shadow dragons not black star . No he wasn't , he was shown to beat up several characters in base and he used ssj forms when he got overwhelmed , Goku is the first character who likes to test his opponents before going to a greater power , and in instances where it was clear he had no chance in previous forms he went straight to his best like against Baby Vegeta. These characters u call " fodder " solo most of dbz .
@@humanman9920 You really need to rewatch it... goku nearly died to someone whom pan claimed she could beat (meaning his power level fell by a factor of like 100,000 times). Pan isn't even peak earthling level... she's not even RADITZ level. Baby somehow managed to get to earth and infect the entire population of earth but for some reason didn't just infect Goku and Pan while they were with him. Space worms were somehow more powerful than goku's base form; Omega Shenron somehow managed to instantly kill the 4-star dragon despite his power being GREATER than Omega Shenron's; The black star dragonballs... existing (ah yes, somehow, they blow up the planet they are used on and scatter across the entire universe...); Goku for some reason retained his power level despite the dragon "resetting" most of his characteristics to be like he was a kid; As I said, the characters were great... their backstories are great... but the overall story itself? not so much. Most of the opponents who were beating up Goku's base form shouldn't have even been able to tickle it... (the guy was bullet-proof with a power-level of 10... which is only twice the average human earthling's power level... )
@@Cksurno Broly has statements of being at the level of strength of the gods of destruction at full power. How is GT Goku in BASE powerful enough to Tank this? GT’s scaling is so controversial, so can you explain your reasoning further?
Kinda ridiculous there's no reason the power scaling should be so broken maybe if Broly was a SSJ4 instead it would make more sense that he's climbed above an ordinary SSJ4 but for him to be that powerful so early is lame especially when GT takes place much later in the future so they should naturally be stronger than anything DBS related.
@@Mystic_Magirano Hakaishins are nobody compared to Z Broly's and SSJ Goku from Cell Saga of DBZ. GT has flaws in both writting and Power calling, but at least it's not bad written, and not degradate characters in power and saying that they did in ur face.
Cuz Ssj4 still makes it past that " cool looking " barrier. Most still don't understand its narrative in depth , but the design and abilities is already enough . They would have no problem with Gt if it was longer with more fanservice as well , i mean , majority literally considers black star db arc the bad one in it over Super 17 , wonder why...
@@humanman9920 honestly couldn't tell ya, I thought it was fine, a little less action. Sure but the slice of life was on point and overall seeing them all move into normal living was nice, tho the funny thing is. Gt according to timeline hasn't happened yet
I like how completely overconfident goku 4 is in front of beerus and whis even though they both would completely wipe the floor with him. But tbf this goku never met them so he has an excuse and doesn't know any better, he can't feel their power either since he doesn't have god ki.
Sorta.... you need to remember that this Goku is way stronger than when he met Beerus in that timeline as well.... Like, we literally have no idea how strong he is in comparison to Beerus or Jiren..... But Whis claims Goku is stronger (obviously talking about in comparison to himself), so at least in this case, he's stronger than SSB Goku.... sorta, maybe It should be noted that SS4 Goku isn't scared of Golden Frieza (and he can feel his power) and that Frieza is the one from the tournament of power.... so not way too far behind Beerus.... Also, he had no fear of Broly, who he and Vegeta needed Super Saiyan Blue Gojeta to win against..... In the end, none of this is canon.... this is a game where Raditz can fight Beerus.....
@@TheDeathmail In dragon ball heroes, SSJ4 Goku and SSJB Goku are evenly matched. Despite SSJ4 Goku had a way longer time training than SSJB Goku, DBS Goku was trained by Whis. DBS Goku surpasses SSJ4 with Ultra Instinct. Though it would be interesting how powerful SSJ4 God would be(blue is just super saiyan + god). SSJ1 multiplies one's power level by 50. SSJ4 is SS3J(x400 times)+Great Ape(10 times) which equals 4000 times(hence 10 times kamehameha). Divide 4000 by 50 and you'll find out that godly ki is 80 times as powerful as normal ki but being able to sense godly ki and can only be sensed by it, and the godly ki is so refined that its power is compressed. SSJ4 God would be 320000 times as powerful as normal ki with the added benefits above. I'll call it Super Saiyan Violet Violet(Red+Blue). The fur color would be violet and the hair turns red just like how super saiyan god turned goku and vegeta's hair red.
Nope , Base GT Goku since sugoroku space destruction is stronger , goalpost argument is faulty as long as the characters haven't performed feats against cosmology with comparable scaling .
@@paulhamtorlia3039Heroes is a game promotion anime having authority over its own scaling only not other series , where the ones mostly seen in Ssj4 forms aren't even GT characters . U mention that evenly matched thing yet couple episodes later Vegito blue kaioken gets outclassed by Base Cumber and Ssj4 Vegito beats Ssj Cumber . Its a fanservice anime to make fans happy with alternate versions of characters using popular forms not establish scaling between dbs and gt characters .
@@humanman9920 Cucumber would've been weakened by Vegito blue and SSJ4 Vegito have way more experience. While it's true that heroes is a game promotion anime, it's the closest we have.
It'd be cool if GT got made canon as some kind of alternate dimension where Goku never meets Beerus so he just gets more Raw strength (as is Super Saiyan 4). The God power does sort of help explain the Sun Wukong like appearance developing from SSJ4. As if he has God Power that transcends the power of the Dragon Balls but Goku neither Vegeta neither Baby have any idea of what the true power swelling in them is from Oozaru form.
Already shown in daima trailer in the montage of previous series leaving only z movies and heroes . " DBGT is a grand side story of *original dragon ball* " - Akira Toriyama in dbgt dvd box set message . It has been canon for a long time now .
U must think the DBS SSJ Crayola kits are better since u have those a pass lol smh its crazy how u think the most original looking form that comes with a different more primal intense personality is the form worth bashing when DBS just looks like a rainbow fest.
Yeah yeah whatever, just remember it's not a stupid recolor of a previous form and actually has a better meaning: Saiyans going back to their roots, not just going "godder and godder" with a new hair color.
Saiyan Saga Vegeta exists :
Goku at SSJ4 : This form is necessary to beat you.
Dude, its generic dialogue
Cell: "No wonder Vegeta has an ego. You all fed him."
Because that would be hilarious
That's the thing. He doesn't want to win, he wants to _beat_ Vegeta. In the "it's time for your daily beating" sense.
@@evilchild1851 dude, it's a joke
**Saiyan Saga Vegeta at 18k power level exists**
Goku SSJ4 at trillions: This might be not enough
To be fair, some weird universal power is literally evening them out......
@TheDeathmail ikr, this has nothing to do with SZ but just look at 17 . He catched up with SS Blue by fighting poachers and sparring with some punny Cell Jr's lmao. Power scaling in DB doesn't make sense anymore
@@TheDeathmailthat’s fightersz
Trillions ? Its been several layers into infinite since Base Goku destroyed sugoroku space lol .
@@humanman9920 that is true. Power levels on end of cell saga and buu sage are impossible to calc lol
0:44 "Listen man," just felt so earnest
3:33 I like how the dialogue is not a generic "Kakarot!", because Broly can't recognize Goku anymore
I like how SSJ4 Goku has consistently been sort of John Wayne Goku.
SS4 Goku facing basic early Vegeta: This is going to be tough
SS4 Goku facing SS god Vegeta: You can never beat me
So to SS4 Goku, the god forms are weaker than their starting forms????
This universal time thing really is messing with everyone.....
Dude some of them are just generic, it's not that difficult
Well ssj4 goku can't sense god ki can he
@@purity7110 he can't
@@purity7110But he could feel the pressure. And by all means, SSG forms aren’t impressive
@ruintheday13 I see, well fair point ngl
SSJ4 is so goated bro omg
Pan really out here saying she hopes it’s ok if she goes all out against SS4
She does not want to hurt her Grampa
@
Not like she even can when he’s in that form
She should be more worried about herself
4:11 Whis confirms SSJ4 stronger than SSJB. It's canon now.
Wasn’t whis talking about ultra instinct being weaker since yknow….we have that in the game
Goku also said the ssj4 is necessary to defeat base vegeta sayian saga
Its just a game it doesn't matter , Ssj4 is weaker multiplier but Base GT Goku is already stronger than super by feats .
At the end. Goku is about to get touched by an angel
Wow, haven't heard of that series in _years_ . xD
I love how there's parts of gt people still enjoy, like ssj4 goku and vegeta. Definitely a favorite transformation.
the characters were cool, the story was just poorly written. Baby added unique backstory to the saiyans; Super 17 gave some context to what happened with the androids given their weird "well that happened" with Cell. The black star dragons or whatever they were called all had their own themes, etc, but for some reason Goku was based on his movie logic and consistently got beaten up in normal form before going super saiyan and wiping the floor with fodder characters. As an example, for a moment, a "super saiyan" power level fought a planet... and the planet was winning.
GT was a good example of "interesting concept, poor execution."
@@nathanielbass771" story was just poorly written " Sorry to break it to u baby arc is one of the best stories in dragon ball and its very well written. Super 17 was primarily there to work as a prelude to shadow dragons and that part it did well setting up the narrative of Goku being the centre of problems with a villain from the past series and a recent from this one coming together for a revenge plot , while showing dragon balls getting cracked throughout it finally triggered by the instability brought on earth by merging hell , even if it was bad as a standalone story . Its the shadow dragons not black star . No he wasn't , he was shown to beat up several characters in base and he used ssj forms when he got overwhelmed , Goku is the first character who likes to test his opponents before going to a greater power , and in instances where it was clear he had no chance in previous forms he went straight to his best like against Baby Vegeta. These characters u call " fodder " solo most of dbz .
@@xydis.06.03Nope , full on fanservice ≠ execution .
@@humanman9920 You really need to rewatch it... goku nearly died to someone whom pan claimed she could beat (meaning his power level fell by a factor of like 100,000 times). Pan isn't even peak earthling level... she's not even RADITZ level. Baby somehow managed to get to earth and infect the entire population of earth but for some reason didn't just infect Goku and Pan while they were with him. Space worms were somehow more powerful than goku's base form; Omega Shenron somehow managed to instantly kill the 4-star dragon despite his power being GREATER than Omega Shenron's; The black star dragonballs... existing (ah yes, somehow, they blow up the planet they are used on and scatter across the entire universe...); Goku for some reason retained his power level despite the dragon "resetting" most of his characteristics to be like he was a kid; As I said, the characters were great... their backstories are great... but the overall story itself? not so much. Most of the opponents who were beating up Goku's base form shouldn't have even been able to tickle it... (the guy was bullet-proof with a power-level of 10... which is only twice the average human earthling's power level... )
Dang wish he had a special dialogue/interaction with Ssj God Goku, Ssj God Vegeta just sounds done with him already 😂😂😂😂
0:22 Uub so funny for me here.
I love how confident SSJ4 Goku is against DBS Broly when we all know DBS Broly will wipe the floor with him.
Super monke vs Legendary monke
He would not, good luck to Broly with Base of Z Goku in Buu Saga, not to mention GT Goku in his Base
@@Cksurno Broly has statements of being at the level of strength of the gods of destruction at full power. How is GT Goku in BASE powerful enough to Tank this? GT’s scaling is so controversial, so can you explain your reasoning further?
Kinda ridiculous there's no reason the power scaling should be so broken maybe if Broly was a SSJ4 instead it would make more sense that he's climbed above an ordinary SSJ4 but for him to be that powerful so early is lame especially when GT takes place much later in the future so they should naturally be stronger than anything DBS related.
@@Mystic_Magirano Hakaishins are nobody compared to Z Broly's and SSJ Goku from Cell Saga of DBZ. GT has flaws in both writting and Power calling, but at least it's not bad written, and not degradate characters in power and saying that they did in ur face.
So, can we discuss how most people who dislike gt, still like Ssj4
Cuz Ssj4 still makes it past that " cool looking " barrier. Most still don't understand its narrative in depth , but the design and abilities is already enough . They would have no problem with Gt if it was longer with more fanservice as well , i mean , majority literally considers black star db arc the bad one in it over Super 17 , wonder why...
@@humanman9920 honestly couldn't tell ya, I thought it was fine, a little less action. Sure but the slice of life was on point and overall seeing them all move into normal living was nice, tho the funny thing is. Gt according to timeline hasn't happened yet
0:07 i love goku quickly realizing he's on camera and getting into his starting pose
2:35 4th form vs 4th form
0:27 I've not laughed that hard in so long
I was kinda hoping we'd get some more unique interactions with SSj4 Goku against the Super cast.
I like how completely overconfident goku 4 is in front of beerus and whis even though they both would completely wipe the floor with him.
But tbf this goku never met them so he has an excuse and doesn't know any better, he can't feel their power either since he doesn't have god ki.
Sorta.... you need to remember that this Goku is way stronger than when he met Beerus in that timeline as well....
Like, we literally have no idea how strong he is in comparison to Beerus or Jiren.....
But Whis claims Goku is stronger (obviously talking about in comparison to himself), so at least in this case, he's stronger than SSB Goku.... sorta, maybe
It should be noted that SS4 Goku isn't scared of Golden Frieza (and he can feel his power) and that Frieza is the one from the tournament of power.... so not way too far behind Beerus....
Also, he had no fear of Broly, who he and Vegeta needed Super Saiyan Blue Gojeta to win against.....
In the end, none of this is canon.... this is a game where Raditz can fight Beerus.....
@@TheDeathmail In dragon ball heroes, SSJ4 Goku and SSJB Goku are evenly matched. Despite SSJ4 Goku had a way longer time training than SSJB Goku, DBS Goku was trained by Whis. DBS Goku surpasses SSJ4 with Ultra Instinct. Though it would be interesting how powerful SSJ4 God would be(blue is just super saiyan + god). SSJ1 multiplies one's power level by 50. SSJ4 is SS3J(x400 times)+Great Ape(10 times) which equals 4000 times(hence 10 times kamehameha). Divide 4000 by 50 and you'll find out that godly ki is 80 times as powerful as normal ki but being able to sense godly ki and can only be sensed by it, and the godly ki is so refined that its power is compressed. SSJ4 God would be 320000 times as powerful as normal ki with the added benefits above. I'll call it Super Saiyan Violet Violet(Red+Blue). The fur color would be violet and the hair turns red just like how super saiyan god turned goku and vegeta's hair red.
Nope , Base GT Goku since sugoroku space destruction is stronger , goalpost argument is faulty as long as the characters haven't performed feats against cosmology with comparable scaling .
@@paulhamtorlia3039Heroes is a game promotion anime having authority over its own scaling only not other series , where the ones mostly seen in Ssj4 forms aren't even GT characters . U mention that evenly matched thing yet couple episodes later Vegito blue kaioken gets outclassed by Base Cumber and Ssj4 Vegito beats Ssj Cumber . Its a fanservice anime to make fans happy with alternate versions of characters using popular forms not establish scaling between dbs and gt characters .
@@humanman9920 Cucumber would've been weakened by Vegito blue and SSJ4 Vegito have way more experience. While it's true that heroes is a game promotion anime, it's the closest we have.
thumbnail is craaazy
0:31 bro relax it’s Sayain saga Vegeta
SSJ4 is the best transformation
Ssj4 goku
Ssg is higher than ssj4
Nah man, if Frieza can match and even surpass a super saiyan god with just 4 months of training. Makes the god powers pointless
@@danielmedjedovic7068What does that have anything to do with ssj4 Goku? 2 completely different characters
@darksamus671 not to mention races and growth rates
Well because the fact is that Frieza faced off Ssjg Goku.
Ssg is not even close to ssj4 bro
Edging to these interactions
0:15 Let's fight Buu
It's Uub
Buub
I like this Goku's voice
*Beerus is not impressed*
It'd be cool if GT got made canon as some kind of alternate dimension where Goku never meets Beerus so he just gets more Raw strength (as is Super Saiyan 4). The God power does sort of help explain the Sun Wukong like appearance developing from SSJ4. As if he has God Power that transcends the power of the Dragon Balls but Goku neither Vegeta neither Baby have any idea of what the true power swelling in them is from Oozaru form.
Already shown in daima trailer in the montage of previous series leaving only z movies and heroes .
" DBGT is a grand side story of *original dragon ball* " - Akira Toriyama in dbgt dvd box set message .
It has been canon for a long time now .
@@humanman9920 That's interesting. I wasn't really sure on the status of Super Saiyan 4.
clickbait
balls
7 of them and they belong to a magical wish granting dragon 🐉
0:23 And automatically I like Zeno Robinson more than Sean Teague as Uub!
lmao, ssj god vegeta could beat ssj4 goku with one punch
Sorry to burst the bubble but Base Goku since sugoroku space destruction clears
Fifth.
first
To suck balls
Blue shell
To suck balls
Second
Third
I hate super Saiyan 4 it looks so goofy and just stupid
Looks better than a basic recolor of Super Saiyan :|
U must think the DBS SSJ Crayola kits are better since u have those a pass lol smh its crazy how u think the most original looking form that comes with a different more primal intense personality is the form worth bashing when DBS just looks like a rainbow fest.
Yeah yeah whatever, just remember it's not a stupid recolor of a previous form and actually has a better meaning: Saiyans going back to their roots, not just going "godder and godder" with a new hair color.
man, bait used to be believable.
@@ejayemike6541 DBS SSJ Crayola kits lmao
*Beerus is not impressed*