We have both Veiled Fate & Moonrakers, and Moonrakers has quickly jumped into my top 10 and is both my favorite deck builder & favorite negotiation game. My recommendation, is if you love both of those aspects, and can play with 3-5 get this game. it's so much fun, and everyone we've shown it to, loved it. Right now it runs a bit long, and while it does slow down at the end player in first doesn't get invited on missions, like you said, the objective cards, or just the fact that you've built your ship to the point where you can complete contracts on your own, means you can still progress. I've also played Luminor with my base game and while it is awesome for me it's not as fun as the negotiating game that is the 3-5 player game. it's a great co-op because everything happens simultaneously, there is no downtime, and I look forward to more content. One note on trashing cards/refining your deck, the ship parts are what allow you to add cards, so if you replace a ship part you remove those cards too, also there are parts/crew members that allow you to trash cards, so that is definitely there. Moonrakers in on TTS you can try it now, see if you like it, if you do get the base game, then maybe later add an expansion when you feel like you want to enhance one aspect of the game. For me I'm getting all the expansion content, but this is a top 10 game for me, and a game, that I've played a lot since getting it this spring.
Josh, you're a temptress! And my wallet isn't going to be happy at you, haha, but I really appreciate the recommendation. I really might pull the trigger haha
I love the backer #7 call out. So funny to me and I absolutely appreciate that joke. I’m so happy to see Veiled Fate by you as well. Enjoy your time away!
Moonrakers is great but if people do not like to talk or negotiate it may not be for their group. Nomad was the best when we played bc it also weeds out some of the extra negotiation since only the players in or adjacent to your sector have a chance to help you. The event cards also make it more fun. I will probably always use that one. Binding Ties is also fun and can see that being used with Nomad. Everyone in one of my groups has the game and will probably go all in. I’m sending them this video lol. I feel I could always play the expansion(s) I chose not to get with their copy if I do not back it all. I’m a complationist though and love metal so 24 days to make some choices. Chris are you going to GEN CON?
I'm not unfortunately, I definitely would have after my experience with Origins and have been getting some emails from publishers going which is too bad. I just am on a contract so the timing doesn't work. Maybe next year!
#5, you can purchase a ship part or crew that allow you swap out base cards for the better version. #2, you have to manage your deck and its size, thats on you. When you purchase ship parts they add cards, what are you adding? Does it help you from a deck POV as well as the ship part perk. You can purchase cards you need, some crew allow you to add/subtract to you hand/deck, a certain crew will turn misses into damage while adding miss cards to your deck upon purchase - now you may want to look for other ship parts that add misses to your hand. It sounds like some people need more experience and learning with the game from this aspect, but yes sometimes you may not have reactors in your hand but thats when you jump into someone else's contract to get some loot and cycle cards before your turn.
I paid $1 during the KS for PM access, and I've been back and forth for a few weeks. I tried it on TTS only 2-player to see how it sort of runs and even with the $179 Titan w/3 Expansions, and the $10 10 card pack and the $12 15 card pack (what?!!) there's only 16 cards per colour of Contract in the entirety of the game, playing with the Base and all THREE Expansions. So when you play Nomad with the board made up of 4 main sectors (blue, orange, yellow, green) and the final special Sorellia sector (purple) each colour/sector has 16 cards. Whenever you decide to move to that Sector (you have to always move to a new Sector) you draw 3 openly, pick 1 to try, the other 2 go back under the Deck, and then try to succeed at the Contract you picked. This means that at most 1 player needs to only go to that Sector/Colour 5 times to see 15 of the 16 cards. So on a 6th time, you've seen EVERY contract of that colour + 2 repeats, - with 4 or 5 players it can and will happen that a lot of people prefer a certain colour and you go through that Sector's cards 3-6 times in ONE game! In comparison to this game, a Marvel Legendary expansion of $30-40 has about 500+ cards all with full colour art made by real comic book artists with balancing to make sure all the unique abilities work well together, vs the same repeated art on almost all of the cards that have usually only 1 main colour on them... As for playing the game, some Crew and Ship Parts work by trashing cards from your hand, so that's when you cull your bad cards to get more powerful abilities. So depending on the game you might specialize in that and just constantly weed out the bad cards.
A few more reasons to not back it. - Moonrakers really needs 4-5, even 3 is a weaker experience. You know what's a better game at 5, and at least comparable at 4? Sidereal Confluence. You lose the deck building (but you're still building a tableau) but solve all the other problems. Positive negotiations, enforced deals, more trading possibilities, a lot more variety, less downtime for players, and will take roughly the same time once you're familiar with Sidereal. - The way negotiation works is you can backstab the person initiating the contract but they can't backstab you back. It's a one way street. Sure the deck building and draw means you could, in good faith, promise to try and help out and still fail, but you can also just lie and suffer no real in-game consequence for it unless you voluntary take on a consequence as part of the negotiation. That's fine if you're not dealing with immediate rewards but you are dealing with immediate rewards. - Binding Ties adds in some much needed alternatives to control the breakdown of the negotiation aspect as someone approaches the win condition, but it's still a problem. The core gameplay mechanic becomes an active problem at the end game, and the game is basically built around the need to literally do a 180 on the gameplay at the end. Nothing like playing one game for 90 mins only to find out you're playing a completely opposite game the last 30.
haha great video! Sounds like you'll be getting the game. You got it exactly, it's a negotiation game with some fun deck building. Sure, you can have a great deck but you gotta have the negotiation chops at the table to win! Oh also, Overload provides a lot more options for deck thinning replacing the basic cards. I think I'm most excited for Nomad because it completely changes up the game: global events are super cool and the new contract system! Something that I didn't quite like about the base game was game length. Just a tad too long and I think all the expansions now speed up the game since you get more ways for victory points & stronger decks earlier.
Bro, thank you! Still excited for all of them, but am grateful for the reminder to not blow all the rent money:) feel a lot better about not backing the Titan box! Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!
I'm still leading on 'the game will cost a butt to ship to Australia,' and 'Kickstarter have still not made official their divestment from blockchain technology.'
It's my understanding that Overload "fixes" some things that were wrong with the game. Also Dominion 2nd edition big box is $70 Canadian. Dune Imperium +Ix is $100 Canadian. Moonrakers is gonna net around $120 Canadian with less cards.
Yeah my issue with the fixes is the additional premium price point. If the fixes were integral I feel like they should be auto included sort of thing with the game instead of metal coins.
No! No! No, Chris George! You are not doing to me this again, not with Moonrakers! :) I am very committed to this campaign, but I think you raised very good points again. I am willing go with all expansions blindly as probably this is going to me my best chance buying this in Hungary, and Binding Ties and Overload seems to essential. More cards, and incentivized negotiation all make sense to me. Actually Nomad also make sense to erase some negotations and shorten the time to make a deal. If this won't work for my game group than I still have an exclusive stuff to sell as this will not be widely available locally. One I'm struggling a bit and made the most sense is you talking about that the game does not need this production. Which is logically fine, but I think Veiled Fate is also elevated by how the game looks, makes people intrigued right away, I liked you have spacial elements to this bluffing/deduction game. And I have a same feeling with Moonrakers. I instantly went wow, and I think most people will. Meaning it will be easy to get to the table. I honestly don't feel the need of metal everything, I does not click for me visually. I really like the vibrant plastic pieces on the table, so that was easy to resist. I'm still at $340, but I'm getting Mythic Mischief as well and saving a lot on shipping with the rates they are offering.
Yeah I do think with the smaller expansions and potential lack of availability on them, I see the reason to get everything now for shipping and saving on purposes for sure. Adding Mythic Mischief was honestly going to be one of my points, because that's drawing me in as much if not more than just Moonrakers, haha, but if that's the case for me, maybe I should just get Mythic Mischief, haha. It's all verrrryyy tempting! Hope you end up loving both of them :)
On number 2 and number 1: the way I see it is that this game is for people who like negotiation but suck at it, but it's not a true deckbuilder. Here's why I'm saying this: you get a turn that you drew really really badly. You're at 8 points and most people won't negotiate with you. At this point, it becomes a numbers game. Your two options at this point are to stretch the game out, or try and get a better hand. So you start trying to negotiate just to draw a new hand. You end up having to risk 2 hazard dice for someone else and getting some coins, but no one is willing to give you victory points anymore. Do you risk it and try and finish the game off now, knowing the player after you has likely a better hand? Or do you try for the long game? You pass on the option, after all, 2 hazard dice is too risky to your score. But you really just want in somebody's mission..by now they all now you're willing to do it for free just to cycle the hand...and so they won't negotiate. It gets to your turn and you figure the best option is to get rid of the best mission your opponent can use, and attempt another round. Sadly, his deck is strong enough but just barely to make it to a mission..you did succeed to make it harder for him, but he drew what he needed at the times he needed to finish. With this example: for #2. You don't necessarily get screwed by bad draws cause if your negotiation is cycling the deck and keeping this in mind, people will gladly take you in unless you're winning. And for #1: part of the game happens on the negotiation, it is still a deck building game. To me, moonrakers has to be one of the most misunderstood games I've ever played: most people play it as straight as a deck builder, and that doesn't work. If you go full negotiation and lie a lot, it won't work either. It's such a bizarre game. But it is good.
This is why the binding ties expansion was made. Also. Its a true deckbuilder. A deckbuilder is a deckbuilder. You don't get to change what the genre means to include a game you don't like.
I only passed because I wanted the game earlier than next year. And it seems to hold value fairly well. So ill sell my used copy and get the titan box when its not on kickstarter.
The thing that stopped me was the cost. Before shipping, for this and veiled fate, I was looking at $499sgd. Everything I read on bgg told me there wasn't enough of a game in there to justify the cost.
Quack just proved how difficult it is to make these types of videos. You have been validated! I too find this game VERY expensive for what it is. With that being said here are my top 5 reasons not to back: 1. Game cost outweighs gameplay. This absolutely does not play like a $180 game. 2. Negotiation games absolutely require the right gaming group. 3. Severe lack of theme. Sure the new expansions helps.. but it doesn't appear to be significant. 4. Card text is tiny, the game could benefit from some iconography so you don't have to lean across the table every time a new cards pops up. 5. Solo and Co-op require an app.. Not a huge deal.. just can't help but feel that this seems tacked on. Granted I am pretty sure I am getting this myself. I think the expansions address every issue I had with the base game. I also wish I could find a few hundred dollars to go super premium with this game. Instead.. I will just settle on standard issue premium .
Haha yeah I saw them, their main problem is having too much fun! I never have ANY fun, which definitely helps :) Really solid reasons, they could learn a thing or two from you ;)
The app is a fantastic rouge-like. Its not tacked on at all. And solo and co-op do not require an app. There is a solo/two player mode included in the game. The app is its own game entirely.
Thanks for the great video, Chris George! My take away is that I’ve added now Veiled Pledge all in to my All in Moonrakers pledge due to your picture there. Few extra hundreds of $$$, thanks buddy! Remember, there is no such thing as negative publicity!
Hahaha, I hope you enjoy it! If you do like above the table games, Veiled Fate is definitely a great time, even though I think it's also a bit overproduced :)
Indeed! I took base game as I don't own the moonrakers and I went with only Overlord expansion as it gives more cards and that is what I look in deckbuilders =D
I was going to go all in here, but I hadn't actually played it, just had wanted to buy it and saw the kickstarter was coming up and figured it was worth just getting it through kickstarter. I ended up buying just the base. It will get here pretty quickly and I'll have a chance to play it and should have time left in the campaign to decide if I want to adjust my pledge or pledge at all. Thanks for all of your thoughts here, looking forward to the review of Veiled Fate!
@@Zilong09 I've mostly heard the opposite which is why I was prepared to go all in on the titan edition. I have heard that different game groups like different aspects of the game more than others, similar to a lot of games. My understanding is that the expansions are supposed to lean more into different things depending on what each game group really wants to get out of the game.
@@mistletoemonkey if the game suits your group then I undoubtedly support your backing it. That said I think there are better investments for the cost of MR+exp out there. Just seems like alot for ... Mostly cards.
@@Zilong09 For sure. On some level I've been intrigued by all of IV Studios and Chip Theory's games, but the premium as a standard games can be a tough sell when there are so many good games out there for cheaper. I think Race for the Galaxy was $30-40 and its probably the most played game of our collection so far. I'm getting my base moonrakers copy today and eventually getting burncycle. Hopefully one game from each company gives me an idea of whether or not the premium entry point is worth it.
@@Zilong09 Forgot to come back before the end of the kickstarter. We have played the base game three times, at 2, 4, and 5 players. I felt like it was best at 4, but we also started a play of the Luminor expansion with 2 and we were having fun with it. My group likes it enough that I went ahead for the Titan box. Hope you get a chance to try it out!
This one was an easy pass due to the lackluster play at low-players. With all of the buzz I would have likely picked up a copy at retail if there was an affordable option, but as you pointed out that’s a no go.
I was absolutely blown away by how expensive this game is... When I saw a playthrough for the game I thought it looked like a $40-50 game with added on metal coins which I didn't want. Didn't know they were mandatory. But $180 for the big box is crazy to me. It's literally more than everything separately even though they're definitely not spending as much on 1 box as 4 separate boxes. Definitely can't justify that kind of price.
The wicked irony of it is, the games I favored that had metal coins (as a deluxe option, not a baseline component, but still), they never seem to include any appropriate number of coins. Empires of the Void II is an amazing game with amazing quality. But the cardboard coins come in 1-3-5, while the metal coins are just 1s and 5s and have something like 20-30% less in total value. There are exactly enough metal coins in Crusaders deluxe edition to trigger endgame for a 4p game but nothing left over to finish the round. It needs about 50 points more value. For the extra cost, I'd like to have enough.
They have coins, high quality boards cards etc. The box is fantastic. Every other game I own has required me to 3D print an insert. Even wingspans box frankly kinda sucks at a very similar price. Its worth the money in components. But their should be an ecological option that forgoes the unnecessary things.
Yo! I have it and live in Toronto if you want to play it and live here we can get together for you to try it out. I personally love it but yeah the 1-2 player count is not good except with the Luminor expansion.
Thanks for this Chris. Helped me make a decision to pass on it. Was definitely on the fence anyways and it is not the game for me at this time. For the record, that is the first time you have talked me out of a game I was interested in. Well done!
I'm very interested, but I still don't know if I'm $200 interested. I'm toying with the idea of getting the base and expansions in separate boxes. The Titan Box costs USD $15, so not getting that basically pays for shipping. And then I can sell off one or more of the expansions if I don't enjoy them... Definitely not going bonkers with the upgrades either way. Then again, maybe I'll add on Mythic Mischief just so I can give IV all my money like everyone else is.
I feel like if you're going for all the expansions you'll likely want that full box just for that setup time, but that's true that extra 15 could to towards a mythic mischief expansion instead haha
I don’t really think this would be a game for me, therefore the FOMO for this one doesn’t hit me as much - Because: 1) Deckbuilding isn’t the most exciting mechanism for me - I am more into “deckbuilding with a board” type of games; and 2) I am not really into negotiation games… I do not consider Catan to have negotiation, but trading. Games which I consider to have negotiation are: Sideal Confluence (never played) and Cosmic Encounter - which I am not a fan of.
I'm passing on Moonrakers. However, I am backing at a dollar to get access to the pledge manager to get Veiled Fate and it's extras that aren't available on the store.
I love how you give reasons not to buy it, while still praising it as a great game. It gives you more credibility to remain unbiased like that. You are basically telling me what i already knew... but my brain wasn't letting me think it 😅
I am passing, not because I don’t think I will like the game, but because I know I can get it later and I have so many games keeping me happy at the moment. I am playing those, and saving my wallet, for now 😉
Dang! I wish I had watched this before the Kickstarter end. I was waffling anyway, and now I wish I had not backed the full Titan. :( Oh well, maybe I can sell it when it comes.
Well it's gonna likely be a good game, so maybe it'll knock your socks off when it gets there! Or you can probably sell it too I wouldn't worry too much, I think IV games are just going to keep getting bigger
So for me I have been really excited for Moonrakers before I knew that they were relaunching. However I do agree that I am looking forward to some of the expansions more than others. I feel like Overload and Binding Ties adds more and fixes some complaints, while Nomad adds another thing to have to worry about (so I am less excited for Nomad), but the reason I went all in is because I am excited for the game and I feel like the expansions will add more to them and so when we get familiar with the base and maybe OL and BT, then maybe add in Nomad. As for the other reasons, I play with 3-4 mostly, and we love negotiation games, and the deck building is something I like but isn't the main reason I am getting it. So great points, but you couldn't convince me to not waste my money.
My advice is to go all in, then cancel after getting the 48 hours left (does GF have a tickler if someone is following?). If you forget to cancel - it was Fate that you get the game.
This might be the first time you've successfully managed to talk me out of a game. I'm currently in with the Titan Box, but I've not yet played the original (I just love deck builders). Hmm... have some time to decide... Must... Resist... the FOMO.
I had been debating on Moonrakers, but was waiting on the kickstarter before pulling the trigger. I think I'd like it, but I'd need to push out other deck builders in my collecrion to justify the price tag. I think I'm going to pass, but it isnt easy
"With over a million dollars raised by selling 17 copies..." lol. I have never bit because of the insane price point, but I want it all the same. Looking into it and I think I'd actually love this.
So tempting... But I am on a board game buying abstinence program now. Financial reasons. But geez, that looks so cool. Maybe if I just transfer some of that RRSP $$ out... STOP IT!
What I got out of this video: I shouldn't buy the expansions unless I want them for a very specific reason. However, those expansions solve issues with the game and so I should get them if I want to avoid those issues. You seem to contradict yourself there a lot :P EDIT: Oh wait! But then you say that the expansions don't solve those issues! 🤔
Oh yes, I’ve been expecting this delicious video! … I’m all-in, Chris! Day 1, first 20 minutes all-in!! I’m weak, Chris! Come, join and be weak with us just this once… I promise it’s just this one time. I’ve even been trying to stop having fun! I’ve been working a lot. Right now, my game room door is blocked by a ladder that fell and I can’t play anything for three days! I still haven’t done anything to solve the issue. I immediately thought of you and how proud you would feel for me! Come on. You’ll love it, you know it to be true…
This is one of my favorite games and my favorite publishers. It helps that the company is about 20 minutes away from me. I had no choice but to spend a lot of money.....
Nice! Yeah, if you like the publishers, and Veiled Fate has certainly made me a fan, sometimes it's worth supporting so they can continue to make cool things.
Good I was waiting for some reason to stay away from this game that look so much appealing... I already fill the two spot for August and we are still in July...
I'm surprised Moonrakers has done so well. To me, it felt like a simplistic color matching exercise with some light negotiation which grew stale pretty fast.
#5: I don't agree at all. Having owned the game & expansions, they all greatly contribute to massively boosting the quality of a frankly disappointing game to one of my favorites in my collection. #4: Again, disagree. Partially. While 2 players is still a subpar experience, with Overload's advanced action cards and Nomad's 15 prestige mode, solo mode makes you feel like a god that can do anything. #3: Agree. #2. Agree, but combated by Nad, which fixed my biggest problem with the base game. #1. Also agree, not a problem for me.
Wow. Some of these don't back videos are you taking the viewer out of backing. Others are you talking yourself out of backing. This one sounded like you were trying to talk yourself out of backing, and failing.
Haha, yeah we'll see near the end if I end up pulling the trigger or not, still on the fence. It's that price per content ratio that I know I might be disappointed with, that's the main one for me right now
I got to play a co-worker's copy of Moonrakers. We played with 5 players. The winner managed to complete 2 different "have X at the start of your turn" secret objectives, so jumped 4 or 5 points out of nowhere to end the game. Winning without having to go on a mission that final turn did sour me on the game a little.
No new stretch goal content was a negative for me. $180 for a card game I’ve never tried was also kinda ridiculous… but that this doesn’t optimize at 2 players was the deal breaker for me. Thanks!
We have both Veiled Fate & Moonrakers, and Moonrakers has quickly jumped into my top 10 and is both my favorite deck builder & favorite negotiation game. My recommendation, is if you love both of those aspects, and can play with 3-5 get this game. it's so much fun, and everyone we've shown it to, loved it. Right now it runs a bit long, and while it does slow down at the end player in first doesn't get invited on missions, like you said, the objective cards, or just the fact that you've built your ship to the point where you can complete contracts on your own, means you can still progress. I've also played Luminor with my base game and while it is awesome for me it's not as fun as the negotiating game that is the 3-5 player game. it's a great co-op because everything happens simultaneously, there is no downtime, and I look forward to more content. One note on trashing cards/refining your deck, the ship parts are what allow you to add cards, so if you replace a ship part you remove those cards too, also there are parts/crew members that allow you to trash cards, so that is definitely there.
Moonrakers in on TTS you can try it now, see if you like it, if you do get the base game, then maybe later add an expansion when you feel like you want to enhance one aspect of the game. For me I'm getting all the expansion content, but this is a top 10 game for me, and a game, that I've played a lot since getting it this spring.
Josh, you're a temptress! And my wallet isn't going to be happy at you, haha, but I really appreciate the recommendation. I really might pull the trigger haha
I think you'll like it. I don't generally like deck building games with over 3 players, but the collaboration in this, fixes that
I love the backer #7 call out. So funny to me and I absolutely appreciate that joke. I’m so happy to see Veiled Fate by you as well. Enjoy your time away!
Moonrakers is great but if people do not like to talk or negotiate it may not be for their group. Nomad was the best when we played bc it also weeds out some of the extra negotiation since only the players in or adjacent to your sector have a chance to help you. The event cards also make it more fun. I will probably always use that one. Binding Ties is also fun and can see that being used with Nomad. Everyone in one of my groups has the game and will probably go all in. I’m sending them this video lol. I feel I could always play the expansion(s) I chose not to get with their copy if I do not back it all. I’m a complationist though and love metal so 24 days to make some choices. Chris are you going to GEN CON?
I'm not unfortunately, I definitely would have after my experience with Origins and have been getting some emails from publishers going which is too bad. I just am on a contract so the timing doesn't work. Maybe next year!
LOL the first half of this video you were doing the opposite of your intended mission.
Thankfully you recovered fairly well when talking about price.
#5, you can purchase a ship part or crew that allow you swap out base cards for the better version.
#2, you have to manage your deck and its size, thats on you. When you purchase ship parts they add cards, what are you adding? Does it help you from a deck POV as well as the ship part perk. You can purchase cards you need, some crew allow you to add/subtract to you hand/deck, a certain crew will turn misses into damage while adding miss cards to your deck upon purchase - now you may want to look for other ship parts that add misses to your hand. It sounds like some people need more experience and learning with the game from this aspect, but yes sometimes you may not have reactors in your hand but thats when you jump into someone else's contract to get some loot and cycle cards before your turn.
I paid $1 during the KS for PM access, and I've been back and forth for a few weeks.
I tried it on TTS only 2-player to see how it sort of runs and even with the $179 Titan w/3 Expansions, and the $10 10 card pack and the $12 15 card pack (what?!!) there's only 16 cards per colour of Contract in the entirety of the game, playing with the Base and all THREE Expansions.
So when you play Nomad with the board made up of 4 main sectors (blue, orange, yellow, green) and the final special Sorellia sector (purple) each colour/sector has 16 cards. Whenever you decide to move to that Sector (you have to always move to a new Sector) you draw 3 openly, pick 1 to try, the other 2 go back under the Deck, and then try to succeed at the Contract you picked.
This means that at most 1 player needs to only go to that Sector/Colour 5 times to see 15 of the 16 cards. So on a 6th time, you've seen EVERY contract of that colour + 2 repeats, - with 4 or 5 players it can and will happen that a lot of people prefer a certain colour and you go through that Sector's cards 3-6 times in ONE game!
In comparison to this game, a Marvel Legendary expansion of $30-40 has about 500+ cards all with full colour art made by real comic book artists with balancing to make sure all the unique abilities work well together, vs the same repeated art on almost all of the cards that have usually only 1 main colour on them...
As for playing the game, some Crew and Ship Parts work by trashing cards from your hand, so that's when you cull your bad cards to get more powerful abilities. So depending on the game you might specialize in that and just constantly weed out the bad cards.
A few more reasons to not back it.
- Moonrakers really needs 4-5, even 3 is a weaker experience. You know what's a better game at 5, and at least comparable at 4? Sidereal Confluence. You lose the deck building (but you're still building a tableau) but solve all the other problems. Positive negotiations, enforced deals, more trading possibilities, a lot more variety, less downtime for players, and will take roughly the same time once you're familiar with Sidereal.
- The way negotiation works is you can backstab the person initiating the contract but they can't backstab you back. It's a one way street. Sure the deck building and draw means you could, in good faith, promise to try and help out and still fail, but you can also just lie and suffer no real in-game consequence for it unless you voluntary take on a consequence as part of the negotiation. That's fine if you're not dealing with immediate rewards but you are dealing with immediate rewards.
- Binding Ties adds in some much needed alternatives to control the breakdown of the negotiation aspect as someone approaches the win condition, but it's still a problem. The core gameplay mechanic becomes an active problem at the end game, and the game is basically built around the need to literally do a 180 on the gameplay at the end. Nothing like playing one game for 90 mins only to find out you're playing a completely opposite game the last 30.
haha great video! Sounds like you'll be getting the game. You got it exactly, it's a negotiation game with some fun deck building. Sure, you can have a great deck but you gotta have the negotiation chops at the table to win!
Oh also, Overload provides a lot more options for deck thinning replacing the basic cards. I think I'm most excited for Nomad because it completely changes up the game: global events are super cool and the new contract system! Something that I didn't quite like about the base game was game length. Just a tad too long and I think all the expansions now speed up the game since you get more ways for victory points & stronger decks earlier.
You are most certainly not another idiot with a camera, you're a very special one...
And you make great videos and are clever, thank you!
Bro, thank you! Still excited for all of them, but am grateful for the reminder to not blow all the rent money:) feel a lot better about not backing the Titan box! Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!
I'm still leading on 'the game will cost a butt to ship to Australia,' and 'Kickstarter have still not made official their divestment from blockchain technology.'
It's my understanding that Overload "fixes" some things that were wrong with the game. Also Dominion 2nd edition big box is $70 Canadian. Dune Imperium +Ix is $100 Canadian. Moonrakers is gonna net around $120 Canadian with less cards.
Yeah my issue with the fixes is the additional premium price point. If the fixes were integral I feel like they should be auto included sort of thing with the game instead of metal coins.
Thank you for saving me money
No! No! No, Chris George! You are not doing to me this again, not with Moonrakers! :)
I am very committed to this campaign, but I think you raised very good points again. I am willing go with all expansions blindly as probably this is going to me my best chance buying this in Hungary, and Binding Ties and Overload seems to essential. More cards, and incentivized negotiation all make sense to me. Actually Nomad also make sense to erase some negotations and shorten the time to make a deal.
If this won't work for my game group than I still have an exclusive stuff to sell as this will not be widely available locally.
One I'm struggling a bit and made the most sense is you talking about that the game does not need this production. Which is logically fine, but I think Veiled Fate is also elevated by how the game looks, makes people intrigued right away, I liked you have spacial elements to this bluffing/deduction game. And I have a same feeling with Moonrakers. I instantly went wow, and I think most people will. Meaning it will be easy to get to the table.
I honestly don't feel the need of metal everything, I does not click for me visually. I really like the vibrant plastic pieces on the table, so that was easy to resist.
I'm still at $340, but I'm getting Mythic Mischief as well and saving a lot on shipping with the rates they are offering.
Yeah I do think with the smaller expansions and potential lack of availability on them, I see the reason to get everything now for shipping and saving on purposes for sure. Adding Mythic Mischief was honestly going to be one of my points, because that's drawing me in as much if not more than just Moonrakers, haha, but if that's the case for me, maybe I should just get Mythic Mischief, haha. It's all verrrryyy tempting! Hope you end up loving both of them :)
On number 2 and number 1: the way I see it is that this game is for people who like negotiation but suck at it, but it's not a true deckbuilder.
Here's why I'm saying this: you get a turn that you drew really really badly. You're at 8 points and most people won't negotiate with you. At this point, it becomes a numbers game. Your two options at this point are to stretch the game out, or try and get a better hand.
So you start trying to negotiate just to draw a new hand. You end up having to risk 2 hazard dice for someone else and getting some coins, but no one is willing to give you victory points anymore. Do you risk it and try and finish the game off now, knowing the player after you has likely a better hand? Or do you try for the long game?
You pass on the option, after all, 2 hazard dice is too risky to your score. But you really just want in somebody's mission..by now they all now you're willing to do it for free just to cycle the hand...and so they won't negotiate.
It gets to your turn and you figure the best option is to get rid of the best mission your opponent can use, and attempt another round.
Sadly, his deck is strong enough but just barely to make it to a mission..you did succeed to make it harder for him, but he drew what he needed at the times he needed to finish.
With this example: for #2. You don't necessarily get screwed by bad draws cause if your negotiation is cycling the deck and keeping this in mind, people will gladly take you in unless you're winning. And for #1: part of the game happens on the negotiation, it is still a deck building game. To me, moonrakers has to be one of the most misunderstood games I've ever played: most people play it as straight as a deck builder, and that doesn't work. If you go full negotiation and lie a lot, it won't work either.
It's such a bizarre game. But it is good.
This is why the binding ties expansion was made.
Also. Its a true deckbuilder. A deckbuilder is a deckbuilder. You don't get to change what the genre means to include a game you don't like.
I only passed because I wanted the game earlier than next year. And it seems to hold value fairly well. So ill sell my used copy and get the titan box when its not on kickstarter.
The thing that stopped me was the cost. Before shipping, for this and veiled fate, I was looking at $499sgd. Everything I read on bgg told me there wasn't enough of a game in there to justify the cost.
Yeah that's way too much for sure
Quack just proved how difficult it is to make these types of videos. You have been validated!
I too find this game VERY expensive for what it is. With that being said here are my top 5 reasons not to back:
1. Game cost outweighs gameplay. This absolutely does not play like a $180 game.
2. Negotiation games absolutely require the right gaming group.
3. Severe lack of theme. Sure the new expansions helps.. but it doesn't appear to be significant.
4. Card text is tiny, the game could benefit from some iconography so you don't have to lean across the table every time a new cards pops up.
5. Solo and Co-op require an app.. Not a huge deal.. just can't help but feel that this seems tacked on.
Granted I am pretty sure I am getting this myself. I think the expansions address every issue I had with the base game. I also wish I could find a few hundred dollars to go super premium with this game. Instead.. I will just settle on standard issue premium .
Haha yeah I saw them, their main problem is having too much fun! I never have ANY fun, which definitely helps :) Really solid reasons, they could learn a thing or two from you ;)
@@RoomandBoardReviews True that. Fun is overrated. Guess they'll never learn.
The app is a fantastic rouge-like. Its not tacked on at all. And solo and co-op do not require an app. There is a solo/two player mode included in the game. The app is its own game entirely.
Thanks for the great video, Chris George! My take away is that I’ve added now Veiled Pledge all in to my All in Moonrakers pledge due to your picture there. Few extra hundreds of $$$, thanks buddy! Remember, there is no such thing as negative publicity!
Hahaha, I hope you enjoy it! If you do like above the table games, Veiled Fate is definitely a great time, even though I think it's also a bit overproduced :)
@@RoomandBoardReviews everything is overproduced nowadays. If you look for something underproduced, check Caesar! seize Rome in 10 minutes!
Indeed! I took base game as I don't own the moonrakers and I went with only Overlord expansion as it gives more cards and that is what I look in deckbuilders =D
I was going to go all in here, but I hadn't actually played it, just had wanted to buy it and saw the kickstarter was coming up and figured it was worth just getting it through kickstarter. I ended up buying just the base. It will get here pretty quickly and I'll have a chance to play it and should have time left in the campaign to decide if I want to adjust my pledge or pledge at all. Thanks for all of your thoughts here, looking forward to the review of Veiled Fate!
I hear the base game has serious issues.
@@Zilong09 I've mostly heard the opposite which is why I was prepared to go all in on the titan edition. I have heard that different game groups like different aspects of the game more than others, similar to a lot of games. My understanding is that the expansions are supposed to lean more into different things depending on what each game group really wants to get out of the game.
@@mistletoemonkey if the game suits your group then I undoubtedly support your backing it. That said I think there are better investments for the cost of MR+exp out there. Just seems like alot for ... Mostly cards.
@@Zilong09 For sure. On some level I've been intrigued by all of IV Studios and Chip Theory's games, but the premium as a standard games can be a tough sell when there are so many good games out there for cheaper. I think Race for the Galaxy was $30-40 and its probably the most played game of our collection so far. I'm getting my base moonrakers copy today and eventually getting burncycle. Hopefully one game from each company gives me an idea of whether or not the premium entry point is worth it.
@@Zilong09 Forgot to come back before the end of the kickstarter. We have played the base game three times, at 2, 4, and 5 players. I felt like it was best at 4, but we also started a play of the Luminor expansion with 2 and we were having fun with it. My group likes it enough that I went ahead for the Titan box. Hope you get a chance to try it out!
This one was an easy pass due to the lackluster play at low-players. With all of the buzz I would have likely picked up a copy at retail if there was an affordable option, but as you pointed out that’s a no go.
Idk. The free rouge-like game on steam is pretty fun with any amount of players.
I was absolutely blown away by how expensive this game is... When I saw a playthrough for the game I thought it looked like a $40-50 game with added on metal coins which I didn't want. Didn't know they were mandatory. But $180 for the big box is crazy to me. It's literally more than everything separately even though they're definitely not spending as much on 1 box as 4 separate boxes. Definitely can't justify that kind of price.
The wicked irony of it is, the games I favored that had metal coins (as a deluxe option, not a baseline component, but still), they never seem to include any appropriate number of coins.
Empires of the Void II is an amazing game with amazing quality. But the cardboard coins come in 1-3-5, while the metal coins are just 1s and 5s and have something like 20-30% less in total value. There are exactly enough metal coins in Crusaders deluxe edition to trigger endgame for a 4p game but nothing left over to finish the round. It needs about 50 points more value.
For the extra cost, I'd like to have enough.
They have coins, high quality boards cards etc. The box is fantastic. Every other game I own has required me to 3D print an insert. Even wingspans box frankly kinda sucks at a very similar price. Its worth the money in components. But their should be an ecological option that forgoes the unnecessary things.
Yo! I have it and live in Toronto if you want to play it and live here we can get together for you to try it out. I personally love it but yeah the 1-2 player count is not good except with the Luminor expansion.
Nice, woo Toronto friends! I won't be back in the city until end of August unfortunately but I appreciate the offer!
Just curious, was Company of Heroes 2nd edition skipped for some reason? Love this series and need some reasons to not back it 😅
Haha usually if they haven't broken the 1 million by the time I get to the Monday Crowdfunding Countdown series I don't end up making it.
Thanks for this Chris. Helped me make a decision to pass on it. Was definitely on the fence anyways and it is not the game for me at this time. For the record, that is the first time you have talked me out of a game I was interested in. Well done!
I knew I'd get it right one of these days!
@@RoomandBoardReviews 🤣Well, given that people don't like to be told what not to do.. I think you do a pretty great job.
I'm very interested, but I still don't know if I'm $200 interested. I'm toying with the idea of getting the base and expansions in separate boxes. The Titan Box costs USD $15, so not getting that basically pays for shipping. And then I can sell off one or more of the expansions if I don't enjoy them... Definitely not going bonkers with the upgrades either way.
Then again, maybe I'll add on Mythic Mischief just so I can give IV all my money like everyone else is.
I feel like if you're going for all the expansions you'll likely want that full box just for that setup time, but that's true that extra 15 could to towards a mythic mischief expansion instead haha
Awesome video Chris!
Thanks buddy :)
I don’t really think this would be a game for me, therefore the FOMO for this one doesn’t hit me as much - Because: 1) Deckbuilding isn’t the most exciting mechanism for me - I am more into “deckbuilding with a board” type of games; and 2) I am not really into negotiation games… I do not consider Catan to have negotiation, but trading. Games which I consider to have negotiation are: Sideal Confluence (never played) and Cosmic Encounter - which I am not a fan of.
I canceled my pledge. Thank you and your reason, good sir!
Great video! Great reasons. I feel I still must buy lol. I backed at the $1 level for pledge manager
Oooo I was just looking at this campaign yesterday and trying to decide. I saw it at $980k and I knew this video was coming soon!
I'm passing on Moonrakers.
However, I am backing at a dollar to get access to the pledge manager to get Veiled Fate and it's extras that aren't available on the store.
Yeah good point there are some extra options there eh? What are you hoping to add, a bunch of metal stuff?
@@RoomandBoardReviews I don't own the base game, so that, but not sure if I want the metal version or not.
There are then the KS only cards, sleeves.
I was litteraly searching this exact video an hour ago, and here it is, uploaded 30 minutes later😀😀
Haha I'm glad I could deliver
14:11 Ok… So what’s your point? Where are you going with this?
I love how you give reasons not to buy it, while still praising it as a great game. It gives you more credibility to remain unbiased like that. You are basically telling me what i already knew... but my brain wasn't letting me think it 😅
Haha thanks, yeah sometimes we all need that little reminder:)
I am passing, not because I don’t think I will like the game, but because I know I can get it later and I have so many games keeping me happy at the moment. I am playing those, and saving my wallet, for now 😉
Smart thinking!
Dang! I wish I had watched this before the Kickstarter end. I was waffling anyway, and now I wish I had not backed the full Titan. :(
Oh well, maybe I can sell it when it comes.
Well it's gonna likely be a good game, so maybe it'll knock your socks off when it gets there! Or you can probably sell it too I wouldn't worry too much, I think IV games are just going to keep getting bigger
Price point has pit me off, happy they're doing well with campaign, but I am unable to afford it.
So for me I have been really excited for Moonrakers before I knew that they were relaunching. However I do agree that I am looking forward to some of the expansions more than others. I feel like Overload and Binding Ties adds more and fixes some complaints, while Nomad adds another thing to have to worry about (so I am less excited for Nomad), but the reason I went all in is because I am excited for the game and I feel like the expansions will add more to them and so when we get familiar with the base and maybe OL and BT, then maybe add in Nomad. As for the other reasons, I play with 3-4 mostly, and we love negotiation games, and the deck building is something I like but isn't the main reason I am getting it. So great points, but you couldn't convince me to not waste my money.
I hope you end up loving it :) you'll have to let me know!
My advice is to go all in, then cancel after getting the 48 hours left (does GF have a tickler if someone is following?). If you forget to cancel - it was Fate that you get the game.
Haha, my advice is usually the opposite! If you forget to come back to it and pledge later, then you never really needed it in the first place.
This might be the first time you've successfully managed to talk me out of a game. I'm currently in with the Titan Box, but I've not yet played the original (I just love deck builders). Hmm... have some time to decide... Must... Resist... the FOMO.
Haha, I knew I'd get you eventually! But... there's still.. time... oh no!
@Chris I have a few words for you about the campaign: Just Do it!
You and Shia LaBeouf both!
Discord already made me not want to back the game but gotta bump up that algorithm!
I had been debating on Moonrakers, but was waiting on the kickstarter before pulling the trigger. I think I'd like it, but I'd need to push out other deck builders in my collecrion to justify the price tag. I think I'm going to pass, but it isnt easy
I like the point on premium content forced on us. I want it, but have to wait to save for it haha!
"With over a million dollars raised by selling 17 copies..." lol. I have never bit because of the insane price point, but I want it all the same. Looking into it and I think I'd actually love this.
You shouldn't back also because it's in a deathmatch and all copies of game real or digital will burst into flames when it is eliminated.
So tempting... But I am on a board game buying abstinence program now. Financial reasons. But geez, that looks so cool. Maybe if I just transfer some of that RRSP $$ out... STOP IT!
Haha, yeah definitely. I don't think this one is worth breaking the abstinence for, but still looks cool :)
What I got out of this video: I shouldn't buy the expansions unless I want them for a very specific reason. However, those expansions solve issues with the game and so I should get them if I want to avoid those issues. You seem to contradict yourself there a lot :P
EDIT: Oh wait! But then you say that the expansions don't solve those issues! 🤔
The comment about backer number 7 feels close to home as backer number 8 xD
Oh amazing! Almost got it :)
I haven’t played moon rakers or any of the expansions but I did stay at a Holiday Express last night. Lol 😂
See you're the real hero!
Just saw quack and Co have taken your idea and made a video called the same thing as yours !! Don't let them take your idea :(
I mean, they give him credit for it. Not like others that have done the same thing without even giving a shoutout
Haha, I appreciate you looking out
@@RoomandBoardReviews haha fair enough mate just looking out for you :))))
Oh yes, I’ve been expecting this delicious video!
…
I’m all-in, Chris! Day 1, first 20 minutes all-in!! I’m weak, Chris! Come, join and be weak with us just this once… I promise it’s just this one time. I’ve even been trying to stop having fun! I’ve been working a lot. Right now, my game room door is blocked by a ladder that fell and I can’t play anything for three days! I still haven’t done anything to solve the issue. I immediately thought of you and how proud you would feel for me!
Come on. You’ll love it, you know it to be true…
Hahaha in honour of your ladder trap, I'll contemplate fun just this once
How did you know that I was looking at Moonrakers?!?!
I see EVERYTHING!
This is one of my favorite games and my favorite publishers. It helps that the company is about 20 minutes away from me. I had no choice but to spend a lot of money.....
Nice! Yeah, if you like the publishers, and Veiled Fate has certainly made me a fan, sometimes it's worth supporting so they can continue to make cool things.
Canada is now 50 bucks.
Good I was waiting for some reason to stay away from this game that look so much appealing... I already fill the two spot for August and we are still in July...
☝
Quack shout out!
You did better ;)
So this game is basically a Munchkin on steroids?
That's what I'm thinking!
The only Moonraker I know is from a James Bond movie. Easy pass for me.
I'm surprised Moonrakers has done so well. To me, it felt like a simplistic color matching exercise with some light negotiation which grew stale pretty fast.
#5: I don't agree at all. Having owned the game & expansions, they all greatly contribute to massively boosting the quality of a frankly disappointing game to one of my favorites in my collection.
#4: Again, disagree. Partially. While 2 players is still a subpar experience, with Overload's advanced action cards and Nomad's 15 prestige mode, solo mode makes you feel like a god that can do anything.
#3: Agree.
#2. Agree, but combated by Nad, which fixed my biggest problem with the base game.
#1. Also agree, not a problem for me.
You’re my only source of kickstarter news. Retail games are enough for me. Easy pass for me.
It is disgustingly expensive for a card game, so easy skip for me.
Wow. Some of these don't back videos are you taking the viewer out of backing. Others are you talking yourself out of backing. This one sounded like you were trying to talk yourself out of backing, and failing.
Haha, yeah we'll see near the end if I end up pulling the trigger or not, still on the fence. It's that price per content ratio that I know I might be disappointed with, that's the main one for me right now
I got to play a co-worker's copy of Moonrakers. We played with 5 players. The winner managed to complete 2 different "have X at the start of your turn" secret objectives, so jumped 4 or 5 points out of nowhere to end the game. Winning without having to go on a mission that final turn did sour me on the game a little.
I don’t like Theo new background. How can I tell you’re a real boars gamer without a Kallax full of games?
Haha, that's the truth! It'll be this way for a month! I'm so grateful to my friend Hilary for lending me the use of her travel backdrop!
No new stretch goal content was a negative for me. $180 for a card game I’ve never tried was also kinda ridiculous… but that this doesn’t optimize at 2 players was the deal breaker for me. Thanks!
Finally a shouldn’t back video, savior of my wallet. 🫡
Haha hopefully mine too when future Chris gets an itch!