I had quite the ride coming down on a 100 foot tower that collapsed at the 60 foot height. I was at 90 feet and managed to fall to the 60 foot section and I held on. The guys for this Rohn tower didn't even have the thimbles for the guy wires. I wasn't wearing a harness which probably saved me. I know I did everything wrong back then. I only climb to 50-60 feet now which is higher than what most folks realize. I appreciate your video and I learned a few things. I'm getting ready to put up a Rohn 45-55 tower. In my lazy old age I'm thinking about getting some sort of crane or bucket to assist in the install.
I remember way back when I had to climb some really tall towers with a lineman's belt. Which really was not a good idea, but it was all we had 40 years ago. Now there are much safer equipment available and has been for 25 years now, so do the right thing and listen to this man. I have climbed tall cliffs and mountains, and jumped out of airplanes, but in each case I used the proper gear, so now I do not climb towers any longer due to Arthritus age and so on. I do go to tower sites and assist, as ground crew with ropes and canvas buckets to make sure the climbers are safe and doing it properly. Dont forget the all crucial helmet, that is another thing people do not do , a small bolt dropped from a tower at height can kill you. I am so glad you made this video it is a much needed warning/ reminder. I have seen and heard of so many near disasters, plus heard of many deaths due to improper equipment and or procedures. 73 great video
Great information, I am installing a 40ft pole mast with 2 sets of guy wires plus anchored in the ground. Its for my gmrs antenna. The other day an old man has a 40ft tower without any guy wires on it and a large yagi antenna on it, he wanted 500.00 plus someone to take it down. I wasn't going to climb it, it needed rope attached to it in order to bring it down without damaging it and his house. No one is going to pay him for it, its not worth it. You did give me some good information .
Excellent video. Retired from the power utility business as an engineer. You are very correct the preformed wraps (such as from Preformed Line Products) and other companies are the best way to go. They last nearly 50 years on utility lines so they will work very well with towers as well. Ice loading is a must design criteria. Aeolian Vibration is another thing one should study and install the proper dampening attachments, or the vibration could wear out the attachments and reduce their life. Seen many power lines, fiber optic lines on the ground in my career due to that pesky vibration, always costs more second time around.
I've built and serviced TV and radio towers off and on lol no pun, for 30 years age made me stop. Thanks so much from an old steeple Jack. I've seen 1st hand the nightmare of bad practice, always inspect to be safe and alive. Good msg.
Glad you mention about interior rust. Checked a Rohnert 20 g tower a few months ago. I placed my right hand on the side as if I would climb, my thumb went through the side. The side wall thickness on 20g is 18 gauge will 25g is 16 gauge. Be careful with used towers
In my younger/dumber days I was doing a tear-down on a 110' 25G. The base, and guys all looked fine, up I went. At right around 45' it started feeling "funny" - kind of a dead, mushy, wiggly feeling. I gave it a couple of good shakes, just to see if it was secure. That is when the circus ride began. slowly listed over as I scrambled down. I was at about 10'ish when it went over with me on the side. Later I found out they installed it by pushing some drill-rod into the dirt with a bobcat, the concrete was a 2"pad to make the owner happy. Guy anchors looked OEM rhon, but were the tops of cut-off rhon salvage anchors welded to more drill rod. The moral, no matter how good the install looks, never trust without verification. If you don't you are going to need a really strong martini after your circus ride.
when a friend passed away W0zus. his family sold off his ham stuff. they guys who bought the guyed big tower. had it come down on them. the family was not held responsible because the tower did not belong to them(they sold it first). My 40 foot tower is self supporting in my back yard. with the prevailing winds from the west to north west. it has stood over 90mph and its failure would land in my back yard anyway. its been up for 40 years. I am now worried about my glen martin roof top tower and its guy system the anchors are good but the thimbles are questionable. I will look into fixing that stuff. thanks for this great video. - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - -
Lots of good information and I have broken many of the rules at one time or other. Also those old towers with many bolted joints are great noise generators. At one time around here people would put up treated wooden power poles for towers. We had one at the company where I used to work. When it was finally taken down and a new heavy self supporting tower was installed, it was found that the center of the pole was completely rotted. It only had about 2" of the outer surface of the pole that was solid. Actually a woodpecker had built a nest in the pole.
Wanted to add - Also metallic guys are or can be a path to ground for lightning, wind, snow or sandstorm static, further fatiguing the entire guying system. What is seen on this collapsed tower is typical of DC grounding seen even on professional installs, but potentially not nearly adequate for installs which may never see any or little inspection and maintenance. I don't think enough time has passed to judge the adequacy of now becoming more common phillystran guys in this service. The failed clamped guy cable end the gentleman shows us at the end of the video may have had some arc damage hastening the work hardening and/or yield point failure seen and discussed here, but hard to tell without some inspection under magnification. My two towers are self supporting. 73
Thank you for the discussion. I (was) going to look at a used Rohn 45G and never had a tower before... ....... this helped me see I am far from ready for such and further ... if I get a tower I'll be looking for a new one.
This is the thing. Old towers lose their zinc coating and then the tower starts to rust. The zinc people have a chart explaining this. Rust needs to be taken care of or it weakens your tower. The first 30-40 years it's not a problem. But after that it needs to be actively maintained. Along with guy wires too. Many people don't understand any of that!
Thanks a million for a very educational video. Safety, Safety, Safety.. Check and re-check. Briefing of the crew at site is also mandatory and no spectators within a safe distance. I know of a case where during a tower take down a snapped steel guy wire hit a person( Spectator) and unfortunately it was fatal. Perhaps a video on how to assemble using the big grip would be great. 73's
Use the pelican hooks all the way up and down, even if you are attached to the wire. Seen them come undone from the top, many a times. Use proper climbing gear, always. Great video, anyone who climbs towers for a living or is into amateur radio would definitely learn some great safety tips. Thank you.
Thanks, i will definately get some professional help before I graduate to the tower stage!!! And to all others with rock climbing history, yes climbing harnesses are designed to arrest falls on ropes, but that is with an active belay, spotter, and luck. Not for climbing a tower where you want a high point anchor, stability, and proper deceleration protection!
Thank You Jack for this information. I respect your knowledge & have heeded your advice many times in the past. You will never know, but this 26min. video may just as well save a life. 73s. John - K8JMZ
Brother thank you for this video . I am a Rohn 25 G tower owner. 62 feet up. This video opened up my eyes . But I do inspect my tower every time I lay it over. Things will happen so fast. and yes it is a up keep. I will pass this video on to every one that I know that has a tower...Thank you so much. I go be the handel 181 Louisiana skipshooter
I have a crank up/tilt over tower. I'm sure some would claim it's a no go. The inside section is rohn 25g, the outside section and base plate is homemade. Has been a tough one for years. How big is the base on yours?
That last wire looked like it had a lighting strike arc! It had some burn look to it! I have seen that here in Florida. The grounds on the tower get glassed from a lighting hit and they are not good grounds anymore and the next lighting hit goes down the wores. 73 W4DES
We (my wife and I) teach fall protection safety training. Its no joke. So many people disregard safety precautions that are vital to their safety. They always think that it wont happen to them. Well, when it does go bad it really goes bad. It isnt worth it. Spend the time and money on good safety equipment and procedures. Get a good tower harness, with appropriate lanyards etc.
I am planning with the help of some great ham club friends to add guys to a 50' Rohn 25G. I particularly appreciate the comments about the larger thimbles and the cable wrap. I would like to see a short video on how to use the cable wrap and large thimbles. How will I know when you add it? Jeff B.
One thing I can't find much info on, is how are guy cables normally anchored to the ground and what kind of foundation is normally needed? Even a proper guy install won't work if the foundation is not good enough. Also how are they typically repaired/replaced, guessing you put new one in first then remove old? Or do you just ensure to have enough redundancy so you can get away with removing one temporarily? I'm far from the point of putting up a tower but just working on learning as much as I can before I get there.
Jack you are a very wise man. Hopefully people will listen. Might save there lives one day. On a side note. I wish i would have ran into you 20 years ago. Id be living down the road from you for sure. Great video buddy. Already looking forward to the next. The new Han Shack should be moving along. Be safe buddy.
I had a failure last week due to Hurricane Sally. It wasn't a tower, but a 30' mast. It too was a guy wire failure. I am putting up a new mast, 40', and am guying it with Mastrant.
There are many important points in your video. I'm amazed at the number of towers passed around over the years and I've known of many that sat unused on their sides in contact with soil along a fence line or behind a structure. Some were there so long, 3+ inch diameter volunteer trees had grown through them along with being vine covered. Without knowing a tower's history, in service and/or in storage, I consider these like acquiring someone else's used safety harness...just no thank you.
Call me crazy, but my son and I are going to try putting up a rohn 25 for our internet service. I greatly appreciate every bit of your safety advice. One question: I live in a warmer climate and I'm wondering if guy cable and hardware doesn't tend to have more problems and issues in a cold climate like yours?
As a former ROHN engineer I can share a story. A ham operator was taking down his tower at his house. He climbs to the top and cuts a guy wire and the tower collapses. This is the mindset ROHN engineers have for their Ham radio operators. This incident is why ROHN does not design a true pin base for Ham antennas. They have a short tower section that is embedded in a concrete pad porvides a fixed base and allows the tower to somewaht freestand in case someone does something really dumb and suicidal. That way ROHN will have some plausible defence in a court of law.
The tower should be designed to where the guy wires are only insurance not structural. Seems like very little margin for error in the design or lack there of
@@slappomatthew The guys can be the problem. If you remove one guy wire, the tower can then have an imbalance and the other two guys can pull the tower over. A tower that does not need guys is called a free standing tower and in the ROHN world it is called an SSV or a SSVMW. Free standing towers are a lot more expensive, but require less maintenance. A tower is a space truss and as such the loss or any one member can cause the loss of the entire structure. To eliminate this issue you need a space frame with redundancy. Steel poles are in between the truss and the frame. Trusses are designed with no extra strength.
Its not a matter of cable clamps being incorrectly installed... but any cable clamp use at all. Correct spec guy wire is rather tough stuff, but does not bend well at all. It is subject to stress risers moreso than the "Dead End" cable loop. The Dead End is somewhat annealed, but larger diameter than the guy cable so it retains the strength. The Dead End Loop acts like the "finger puzzle" kids toy, whereby the more pulling force appled, the tighter it holds. The more brittle guy cable stays straight inside the wraps. There is no real "coating" on the Dead End Loop, it only relies on the built in texture of the galvanize surface. Not like HAM HOMESTEAD, I wrap both at the same time, all the way to nearly the end of the Dead End Loop, then, split the strands of the loop and wrap each "half" by itself for the last two turns. No tools, just gloved hands. The pull strength for 1/4 inch guy cable is something like 3750 lbs., which is a whole lot. Larger cable has greater pull strength. And.... they're about the same price as a pair of "cable clamps", for you cheap sob's out there.
Thank you very much great video. I think it would be very helpful if you can do one on tower safety for all the newbies that are out there many thanks again 2e0ree. 73
WOW, OH, the memories. I'm 60yrs old still climb, and as you stated, I too started with line man's belt, oh, to be so young and dumb, with the internet now, and the availability of ROHNScatalog to help, I as so many see the errors of my ways, now full body harness and fall arrest that EXCEEDS my body weight. I even sized the chains and hooks for my loops for sitting to rest to exceed my weight. AFTER all, to survive an oops. Is not what your family much less WIFE wants to hear. THANKS for the video, and My Young climbers be SAFE!
Spend the money, do it once cry once, Do it right the first time. 90% of a good station starts with good antennas, good feedlines, support structures(towers) and great ground.
Did you ever do a video explaining how to install those big grips? My guys failed in an 80 MPH straight line wind event, and I need to replace them, and like the idea of using those big grips.
Well, now that I learned that I installed my tower all wrong, what do I do ? It's at 85 feet, and been up probably close to 35 years or more ! I started doing towers when literally, just a kid ! Where we didn't know what a safety belt was ! Funny, back then I was limber and thin enough, that I used to wedge one leg, through the tower, to hang on ! Here's another one for you ! Again, in my youth, I would wear tennis shoes, and after a climb, many times would hang by my arms, then place my feet on the outside of the tower legs, and slide down the outside ! I admit it was pretty shakey when you encountered the bolts on the way down ! Hey...., I never said I was smart ! But seriously, this video scares me, knowing how many errors I had done, erecting my own tower ! I like to give credit, where credit is due ! That would be by the Grace of GOD ! Just turned 65, and just stripped the 85 foot Rohn 25G down, and put on fresh aviation orange and white ! More as a novelty, than anything ! Still gathering parts to go up with 7/8 hardline, etc ! So much to do, so little time ! But it is next to impossible to find climber's these days ! We are a dying breed ! I think this mans advice is rock solid, just for some of us, too late ! GOD be with you ! And be Safe in all you do ! From one cheap Ham, to another, '73 !
are those solar panels mounted on that tower at around 20 ft ? That would create a huge side load wind load . Looks like it failed, folded right near those solar panels !
...they are called "big grips" absolute best. Using Crosby clips (not recommended) incorrectly will cause issues. Thimbles are a must! Oversize, don't be cheap! Big grips, guy wires, etc, can be purchased from your electrical supplier. eg Hydro electric distributors, not your local electrical wire supplier. LOL!: Stay away from overseas junk, buy only "Crosby Products" I have turn buckles here, used with >300', ~>24" faced, 7/8" - 1" big bucks, but will out last you! 1000' towers are much more fun to build! LOL!
So in my case I'm going with 35 feet if 45g ss. The only antenna is going to be a hy- gain 203ba. 32 pounds. Wind load less than 6 with the rotor. This will be unguyed. This should be good to go. Your opinion.
I also have a Hy Gain LJ-203 that I am modifying the boom to accept a 2 element 40 yagi on as well. After researching I found I am probably doubling my wind load. I had intended on using Rohn 25 for the LJ-203 but decided that I am going to use Rohn 55g instead. The only difference between 25 and 45 is the width between legs. It's still the same size tubing and the cross ties are made from the same gauge steel. So for an inch by inch comparison 45g is actually weaker than 25. That is why I decided to step up to 55. Rohn 55g has larger O.D. tubes (1.5" vs 1.25") thicker walls (11 gauge vs 16 ga) and the crossmember gauge steel is 1/2" vs 5/16" on the 25g and 45g. Also, I plan on only going up 45 ft which is still within spec for Rohn 55g to be free-standing. But I'm using guys anyways. Phillystran instead of steel braided cable.
I don't know if you are a ham. I am old skool. We always used lineman gear to climb. New hams since "no code" came about need to be pampered. Guess old people know when to come out of the rain. I don't totally agree with you. W7ZDX
Obviously I will be contacting my nearest National Association of Tower Erectors Member to do the installation of my tower, however, what crank up tower manufacturers do you recommend? NV5i
Old tv towers that have spot welded ... things... every 1.x feet... what about inspecting every welds and adding a few spots where the original manufacturing had been overlooked and not overkill enough to my standards?
There's someone around me advertising rohn 25 complete packages for rural internet. He will install a 60 foot with 20 foot pole and no support for 1500 and swears it will stand all but a direct hit from a tornado. Lol
I have 60 45g. What do I need to do it right. How to do the raping thing. Live just North of Tampa not far off if I75 Antenna is a Mosley TA 33 M WARC KQ4CD PAUL
Are the large thimbles just oversized cable thimbles? Meaning if I am using 5/16" cable do I just use like a 1" cable thimble? All the 5-/16" thimbles I can find are only like an inch diameter on the bend.
I’m sure hams have been killed cheaping out on towers, and I’ve been a ham since 1994. I’ve never heard of anyone or known anyone that knows even of anyone that got killed on a tower. Like I said, I’m sure it’s happened, I’ve just never heard of someone going out that way. All the tower jobs and junk and fun and work I’ve been on and the guys I’ve been around have always been hyper safety oriented. Not saying we always had osha approved radio tower climbing gear only, but we’ve always worked very safely. Outside of a cut, bruise or a blister, no injuries at all. Maybe some sun burns and heat cramps, but that’s about it. I get the safety talk, but don’t scare the crap out of people for no good reason.
I know it might be a bit much to ask but how about a video for us guys that are trying to learn anything about ham especially like us amateur amateurs LOL.
Hi is safe or even legal to replace one of the 3meter sections on a 18 meter stayed mast with home made lifting brackets, the 3rd one from the bottem got rusted and need replacement without switching off the radio equipment. Just need some though about it
Than You !!!. I can't say where , but i've seen one guy fall off a 20ft mobile walk way , using the wrong type of harness and LOL he may not be able to have kids. I just watched about 12 videos looking for info on the HY-Gain TB-70 they make 4 , and saw a video where one guy put all 4 grounding rods inside the hole for the tower. I am NO expert on gounding , but do know that lightning is as hot as the surface of the SUN , and that 4 x 4 foot concrete will blow up like a shrapnel grenade and tower will fall on his house or neighbour , please any one correct me if I am wrong. while I'm at it what is wrong with MFJ and no specs on their web site for this TB series towers , I emailed them . I may not be able to do one at my present address either way , but a man has to dream and have goals 73's my fellow radio lovers
I struggle with why people dont simply install a pivoting baseplate so the tower can be leaned over vs having to be climbed in the first place. A simple wench and pully system proper cabling will work for most towers (
Im sorry. I worked with guys that did a lot of tower work my whole adult life. To many wild stories. To many options to put up antennas without climbing. With the best laid plans of mice and men. Look into no climb options.
I had quite the ride coming down on a 100 foot tower that collapsed at the 60 foot height. I was at 90 feet and managed to fall to the 60 foot section and I held on. The guys for this Rohn tower didn't even have the thimbles for the guy wires. I wasn't wearing a harness which probably saved me. I know I did everything wrong back then. I only climb to 50-60 feet now which is higher than what most folks realize. I appreciate your video and I learned a few things. I'm getting ready to put up a Rohn 45-55 tower. In my lazy old age I'm thinking about getting some sort of crane or bucket to assist in the install.
I remember way back when I had to climb some really tall towers with a lineman's belt. Which really was not a good idea, but it was all we had 40 years ago. Now there are much safer equipment available and has been for 25 years now, so do the right thing and listen to this man. I have climbed tall cliffs and mountains, and jumped out of airplanes, but in each case I used the proper gear, so now I do not climb towers any longer due to Arthritus age and so on. I do go to tower sites and assist, as ground crew with ropes and canvas buckets to make sure the climbers are safe and doing it properly. Dont forget the all crucial helmet, that is another thing people do not do , a small bolt dropped from a tower at height can kill you. I am so glad you made this video it is a much needed warning/ reminder. I have seen and heard of so many near disasters, plus heard of many deaths due to improper equipment and or procedures. 73 great video
Great information, I am installing a 40ft pole mast with 2 sets of guy wires plus anchored in the ground. Its for my gmrs antenna. The other day an old man has a 40ft tower without any guy wires on it and a large yagi antenna on it, he wanted 500.00 plus someone to take it down. I wasn't going to climb it, it needed rope attached to it in order to bring it down without damaging it and his house. No one is going to pay him for it, its not worth it. You did give me some good information .
Excellent video. Retired from the power utility business as an engineer. You are very correct the preformed wraps (such as from Preformed Line Products) and other companies are the best way to go. They last nearly 50 years on utility lines so they will work very well with towers as well. Ice loading is a must design criteria. Aeolian Vibration is another thing one should study and install the proper dampening attachments, or the vibration could wear out the attachments and reduce their life. Seen many power lines, fiber optic lines on the ground in my career due to that pesky vibration, always costs more second time around.
I've built and serviced TV and radio towers off and on lol no pun, for 30 years age made me stop. Thanks so much from an old steeple Jack. I've seen 1st hand the nightmare of bad practice, always inspect to be safe and alive. Good msg.
Glad you mention about interior rust.
Checked a Rohnert 20 g tower a few months ago.
I placed my right hand on the side as if I would climb, my thumb went through the side.
The side wall thickness on 20g is 18 gauge will 25g is 16 gauge.
Be careful with used towers
Rohn 20 has 6 bays and 25 has 7 bays. Thats the quick way to tell.
Absolutely fantastic video Jack yes please do a video on the preforms that would be very interesting to learn love the videos thank you sir.
In my younger/dumber days I was doing a tear-down on a 110' 25G. The base, and guys all looked fine, up I went.
At right around 45' it started feeling "funny" - kind of a dead, mushy, wiggly feeling. I gave it a couple of good shakes, just to see if it was secure. That is when the circus ride began. slowly listed over as I scrambled down. I was at about 10'ish when it went over with me on the side.
Later I found out they installed it by pushing some drill-rod into the dirt with a bobcat, the concrete was a 2"pad to make the owner happy. Guy anchors looked OEM rhon, but were the tops of cut-off rhon salvage anchors welded to more drill rod. The moral, no matter how good the install looks, never trust without verification. If you don't you are going to need a really strong martini after your circus ride.
when a friend passed away W0zus. his family sold off his ham stuff. they guys who bought the guyed big tower. had it come down on them. the family was not held responsible because the tower did not belong to them(they sold it first). My 40 foot tower is self supporting in my back yard. with the prevailing winds from the west to north west. it has stood over 90mph and its failure would land in my back yard anyway. its been up for 40 years. I am now worried about my glen martin roof top tower and its guy system the anchors are good but the thimbles are questionable. I will look into fixing that stuff. thanks for this great video. - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - -
Lots of good information and I have broken many of the rules at one time or other. Also those old towers with many bolted joints are great noise generators. At one time around here people would put up treated wooden power poles for towers. We had one at the company where I used to work. When it was finally taken down and a new heavy self supporting tower was installed, it was found that the center of the pole was completely rotted. It only had about 2" of the outer surface of the pole that was solid. Actually a woodpecker had built a nest in the pole.
Wanted to add - Also metallic guys are or can be a path to ground for lightning, wind, snow or sandstorm static, further fatiguing the entire guying system. What is seen on this collapsed tower is typical of DC grounding seen even on professional installs, but potentially not nearly adequate for installs which may never see any or little inspection and maintenance. I don't think enough time has passed to judge the adequacy of now becoming more common phillystran guys in this service. The failed clamped guy cable end the gentleman shows us at the end of the video may have had some arc damage hastening the work hardening and/or yield point failure seen and discussed here, but hard to tell without some inspection under magnification. My two towers are self supporting. 73
Thank you for the discussion. I (was) going to look at a used Rohn 45G and never had a tower before... ....... this helped me see I am far from ready for such and further ... if I get a tower I'll be looking for a new one.
This is the thing. Old towers lose their zinc coating and then the tower starts to rust. The zinc people have a chart explaining this. Rust needs to be taken care of or it weakens your tower. The first 30-40 years it's not a problem. But after that it needs to be actively maintained. Along with guy wires too. Many people don't understand any of that!
Thanks a million for a very educational video. Safety, Safety, Safety.. Check and re-check. Briefing of the crew at site is also mandatory and no spectators within a safe distance. I know of a case where during a tower take down a snapped steel guy wire hit a person( Spectator) and unfortunately it was fatal. Perhaps a video on how to assemble using the big grip would be great. 73's
Use the pelican hooks all the way up and down, even if you are attached to the wire. Seen them come undone from the top, many a times. Use proper climbing gear, always. Great video, anyone who climbs towers for a living or is into amateur radio would definitely learn some great safety tips. Thank you.
Thanks, i will definately get some professional help before I graduate to the tower stage!!! And to all others with rock climbing history, yes climbing harnesses are designed to arrest falls on ropes, but that is with an active belay, spotter, and luck. Not for climbing a tower where you want a high point anchor, stability, and proper deceleration protection!
Thank You Jack for this information. I respect your knowledge & have heeded your advice many times in the past.
You will never know, but this 26min. video may just as well save a life. 73s. John - K8JMZ
I'm glad to be able to share information with others.
I think the best idea for a video would be
1) how to safely/properly erect a tower
2) how to safely/properly take down a tower.
Brother thank you for this video . I am a Rohn 25 G tower owner. 62 feet up. This video opened up my eyes . But I do inspect my tower every time I lay it over. Things will happen so fast. and yes it is a up keep. I will pass this video on to every one that I know that has a tower...Thank you so much. I go be the handel 181 Louisiana skipshooter
All the best
I have a crank up/tilt over tower. I'm sure some would claim it's a no go. The inside section is rohn 25g, the outside section and base plate is homemade. Has been a tough one for years. How big is the base on yours?
That last wire looked like it had a lighting strike arc! It had some burn look to it! I have seen that here in Florida. The grounds on the tower get glassed from a lighting hit and they are not good grounds anymore and the next lighting hit goes down the wores. 73 W4DES
50-60 mph is child's play for here in Kansas! Thanks for the video.
Thanks for contributing. That is really relevant and helpful here.
We (my wife and I) teach fall protection safety training. Its no joke. So many people disregard safety precautions that are vital to their safety. They always think that it wont happen to them. Well, when it does go bad it really goes bad. It isnt worth it. Spend the time and money on good safety equipment and procedures. Get a good tower harness, with appropriate lanyards etc.
Great information thank you for sharing your knowledge in this subject
I am planning with the help of some great ham club friends to add guys to a 50' Rohn 25G. I particularly appreciate the comments about the larger thimbles and the cable wrap. I would like to see a short video on how to use the cable wrap and large thimbles. How will I know when you add it? Jeff B.
Interesting ramblings (stringing it out). I can listen to these stories all day long. GREAT PSA.
Yes, tower safety vids please. Sounds like you have a lot to share. tyty! Subscribed.
Will do! I am working on it this weekend.. Hopefully wrap it up and post it next week. Thanks for subscribing.
What a great video. I am sending to our entire club in Florence SC.
One thing I can't find much info on, is how are guy cables normally anchored to the ground and what kind of foundation is normally needed? Even a proper guy install won't work if the foundation is not good enough. Also how are they typically repaired/replaced, guessing you put new one in first then remove old? Or do you just ensure to have enough redundancy so you can get away with removing one temporarily? I'm far from the point of putting up a tower but just working on learning as much as I can before I get there.
Jack you are a very wise man. Hopefully people will listen. Might save there lives one day. On a side note. I wish i would have ran into you 20 years ago. Id be living down the road from you for sure. Great video buddy. Already looking forward to the next. The new Han Shack should be moving along. Be safe buddy.
Neighbors would be fun!
THANKS FOR THE INFO
5 star information to SAVE lives 👍
I had a failure last week due to Hurricane Sally. It wasn't a tower, but a 30' mast. It too was a guy wire failure. I am putting up a new mast, 40', and am guying it with Mastrant.
Stay safe!
There are many important points in your video. I'm amazed at the number of towers passed around over the years and I've known of many that sat unused on their sides in contact with soil along a fence line or behind a structure. Some were there so long, 3+ inch diameter volunteer trees had grown through them along with being vine covered. Without knowing a tower's history, in service and/or in storage, I consider these like acquiring someone else's used safety harness...just no thank you.
Call me crazy, but my son and I are going to try putting up a rohn 25 for our internet service. I greatly appreciate every bit of your safety advice. One question: I live in a warmer climate and I'm wondering if guy cable and hardware doesn't tend to have more problems and issues in a cold climate like yours?
An excellent presentation, thank you
There's an obituary it seems every few issues of QST involving hams that came down with their towers.
Great video! Thanks for taking the time to make it.
As a former ROHN engineer I can share a story. A ham operator was taking down his tower at his house. He climbs to the top and cuts a guy wire and the tower collapses. This is the mindset ROHN engineers have for their Ham radio operators. This incident is why ROHN does not design a true pin base for Ham antennas. They have a short tower section that is embedded in a concrete pad porvides a fixed base and allows the tower to somewaht freestand in case someone does something really dumb and suicidal. That way ROHN will have some plausible defence in a court of law.
The tower should be designed to where the guy wires are only insurance not structural. Seems like very little margin for error in the design or lack there of
@@slappomatthew The guys can be the problem. If you remove one guy wire, the tower can then have an imbalance and the other two guys can pull the tower over. A tower that does not need guys is called a free standing tower and in the ROHN world it is called an SSV or a SSVMW. Free standing towers are a lot more expensive, but require less maintenance. A tower is a space truss and as such the loss or any one member can cause the loss of the entire structure. To eliminate this issue you need a space frame with redundancy. Steel poles are in between the truss and the frame. Trusses are designed with no extra strength.
Fantastic advice.
Its not a matter of cable clamps being incorrectly installed... but any cable clamp use at all. Correct spec guy wire is rather tough stuff, but does not bend well at all. It is subject to stress risers moreso than the "Dead End" cable loop. The Dead End is somewhat annealed, but larger diameter than the guy cable so it retains the strength. The Dead End Loop acts like the "finger puzzle" kids toy, whereby the more pulling force appled, the tighter it holds. The more brittle guy cable stays straight inside the wraps. There is no real "coating" on the Dead End Loop, it only relies on the built in texture of the galvanize surface. Not like HAM HOMESTEAD, I wrap both at the same time, all the way to nearly the end of the Dead End Loop, then, split the strands of the loop and wrap each "half" by itself for the last two turns. No tools, just gloved hands. The pull strength for 1/4 inch guy cable is something like 3750 lbs., which is a whole lot. Larger cable has greater pull strength. And.... they're about the same price as a pair of "cable clamps", for you cheap sob's out there.
Great video
Wish there was a good videos of how these and other towers are installed and set up. As well as proper safety and lightning protection/ grounds.
Working on putting one together this spring!
Thank you very much great video. I think it would be very helpful if you can do one on tower safety for all the newbies that are out there many thanks again 2e0ree. 73
WOW, OH, the memories. I'm 60yrs old still climb, and as you stated, I too started with line man's belt, oh, to be so young and dumb, with the internet now, and the availability of ROHNScatalog to help, I as so many see the errors of my ways, now full body harness and fall arrest that EXCEEDS my body weight. I even sized the chains and hooks for my loops for sitting to rest to exceed my weight. AFTER all, to survive an oops. Is not what your family much less WIFE wants to hear. THANKS for the video, and My Young climbers be SAFE!
I had been thinking about buying a used tower to save a bunch of money. Now I'm not so sure.
Great video, Thanks
Spend the money, do it once cry once, Do it right the first time. 90% of a good station starts with good antennas, good feedlines, support structures(towers) and great ground.
Did you ever do a video explaining how to install those big grips? My guys failed in an 80 MPH straight line wind event, and I need to replace them, and like the idea of using those big grips.
Thanks Jack.
Never put a tower up in my life but I could see the problem ass soon as you held up the guy cable.
I wish you would have demonstrated how to put those wraps around the guys. I don't get it.
Thank you for this video. Yes I almost went for a free tower So glad I passed on it yes make a video of proper attachments. Thanks again be safe
Great video!!
Those preformed bends will slip ..
More please! education is key.
Well, now that I learned that I installed my tower all wrong, what do I do ?
It's at 85 feet, and been up probably close to 35 years or more !
I started doing towers when literally, just a kid !
Where we didn't know what a safety belt was !
Funny, back then I was limber and thin enough, that I used to wedge one leg, through the tower, to hang on !
Here's another one for you !
Again, in my youth, I would wear tennis shoes, and after a climb, many times would hang by my arms, then place my feet on the outside of the tower legs, and slide down the outside !
I admit it was pretty shakey when you encountered the bolts on the way down !
Hey...., I never said I was smart !
But seriously, this video scares me, knowing how many errors I had done, erecting my own tower !
I like to give credit, where credit is due !
That would be by the Grace of GOD !
Just turned 65, and just stripped the 85 foot Rohn 25G down, and put on fresh aviation orange and white !
More as a novelty, than anything !
Still gathering parts to go up with 7/8 hardline, etc !
So much to do, so little time !
But it is next to impossible to find climber's these days !
We are a dying breed !
I think this mans advice is rock solid, just for some of us, too late !
GOD be with you !
And be Safe in all you do !
From one cheap Ham, to another, '73 !
73
are those solar panels mounted on that tower at around 20 ft ? That would create a huge side load wind load . Looks like it failed, folded right near those solar panels !
Yes I want to see a video on the preforms.
...they are called "big grips" absolute best. Using Crosby clips (not recommended) incorrectly will cause issues. Thimbles are a must! Oversize, don't be cheap! Big grips, guy wires, etc, can be purchased from your electrical supplier. eg Hydro electric distributors, not your local electrical wire supplier. LOL!: Stay away from overseas junk, buy only "Crosby Products" I have turn buckles here, used with >300', ~>24" faced, 7/8" - 1" big bucks, but will out last you! 1000' towers are much more fun to build! LOL!
Rohn 45G doesn't even meet minimum specs for use in Pennsylvania
Thanks!
Put a bucket full of weight, dirt, rocks, water barrel(s) to help with tractor lift
Please do the video on the big grips.thabjs for the video. 73
So in my case I'm going with 35 feet if 45g ss. The only antenna is going to be a hy- gain 203ba. 32 pounds. Wind load less than 6 with the rotor. This will be unguyed. This should be good to go. Your opinion.
I also have a Hy Gain LJ-203 that I am modifying the boom to accept a 2 element 40 yagi on as well. After researching I found I am probably doubling my wind load. I had intended on using Rohn 25 for the LJ-203 but decided that I am going to use Rohn 55g instead. The only difference between 25 and 45 is the width between legs. It's still the same size tubing and the cross ties are made from the same gauge steel. So for an inch by inch comparison 45g is actually weaker than 25. That is why I decided to step up to 55. Rohn 55g has larger O.D. tubes (1.5" vs 1.25") thicker walls (11 gauge vs 16 ga) and the crossmember gauge steel is 1/2" vs 5/16" on the 25g and 45g.
Also, I plan on only going up 45 ft which is still within spec for Rohn 55g to be free-standing. But I'm using guys anyways. Phillystran instead of steel braided cable.
I lost 2 friends climbing towers. I won't climb and if I put up one it would be a tilt base.
I don't know if you are a ham. I am old skool. We always used lineman gear to climb. New hams since "no code" came about need to be pampered. Guess old people know when to come out of the rain. I don't totally agree with you. W7ZDX
Obviously I will be contacting my nearest National Association of Tower Erectors Member to do the installation of my tower, however, what crank up tower manufacturers do you recommend? NV5i
Old tv towers that have spot welded ... things... every 1.x feet... what about inspecting every welds and adding a few spots where the original manufacturing had been overlooked and not overkill enough to my standards?
Wow sounds like a ton of work on a TV tower!
There's someone around me advertising rohn 25 complete packages for rural internet. He will install a 60 foot with 20 foot pole and no support for 1500 and swears it will stand all but a direct hit from a tornado. Lol
I have 60 45g. What do I need to do it right. How to do the raping thing. Live just North of Tampa not far off if I75 Antenna is a
Mosley TA 33 M WARC
KQ4CD PAUL
Is the rusting due to water running and pooling at the lowest point? Would lanolin or similar help protect it?
Are the large thimbles just oversized cable thimbles? Meaning if I am using 5/16" cable do I just use like a 1" cable thimble? All the 5-/16" thimbles I can find are only like an inch diameter on the bend.
Great Video! I'm going to share this video, as well as, the future one on tower construction/maintenance safety. AG7YT
They want to do it for "$500 dollars or less." My picture is here.
I’m sure hams have been killed cheaping out on towers, and I’ve been a ham since 1994. I’ve never heard of anyone or known anyone that knows even of anyone that got killed on a tower. Like I said, I’m sure it’s happened, I’ve just never heard of someone going out that way. All the tower jobs and junk and fun and work I’ve been on and the guys I’ve been around have always been hyper safety oriented. Not saying we always had osha approved radio tower climbing gear only, but we’ve always worked very safely. Outside of a cut, bruise or a blister, no injuries at all. Maybe some sun burns and heat cramps, but that’s about it. I get the safety talk, but don’t scare the crap out of people for no good reason.
It only costs a little more to save money.
I like to over engineer, so I don't have to do it again.
The bottom part could have been saved.
I know it might be a bit much to ask but how about a video for us guys that are trying to learn anything about ham especially like us amateur amateurs LOL.
Hi is safe or even legal to replace one of the 3meter sections on a 18 meter stayed mast with home made lifting brackets, the 3rd one from the bottem got rusted and need replacement without switching off the radio equipment. Just need some though about it
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Jack. Very informative and valuable. KI5QJT Mt. Ireland LO
UFFFF SORRY RANDY .SHE 😞😞😞😞😞
Good stuff, thanks. 73 KM5L
Our pleasure!
Than You !!!. I can't say where , but i've seen one guy fall off a 20ft mobile walk way , using the wrong type of harness and LOL he may not be able to have kids. I just watched about 12 videos looking for info on the HY-Gain TB-70 they make 4 , and saw a video where one guy put all 4 grounding rods inside the hole for the tower. I am NO expert on gounding , but do know that lightning is as hot as the surface of the SUN , and that 4 x 4 foot concrete will blow up like a shrapnel grenade and tower will fall on his house or neighbour , please any one correct me if I am wrong. while I'm at it what is wrong with MFJ and no specs on their web site for this TB series towers , I emailed them . I may not be able to do one at my present address either way , but a man has to dream and have goals 73's my fellow radio lovers
24:00min total damage !!!
Its worth the extra money to use thimbles and preforms. I think there easier to install than clamps.
I struggle with why people dont simply install a pivoting baseplate so the tower can be leaned over vs having to be climbed in the first place. A simple wench and pully system proper cabling will work for most towers (
Why not show how to use your solution ?
Thumbs up for the video ,,, YES , Hams are .. CHEAP.
Im sorry. I worked with guys that did a lot of tower work my whole adult life. To many wild stories. To many options to put up antennas without climbing. With the best laid plans of mice and men. Look into no climb options.
17 dislikes ? you gotta be shitting me.....
Rohan towers suck!
Great video
great video !!