1964 WINSTON WESTERN RIVERSIDE 500 AUTO RACE NASCAR DAN GURNEY CALIFORNIA 45854

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  • Опубліковано 22 лип 2020
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    This color educational film is about the Riverside 500 stock car race in Riverside, California. This was made in 1964.
    Opening: Riverside, CA race track. Cars drive by very fast. The cars drive by a corner. Racer Dan Gurney takes off his helmet. A car is tipped back onto its right side as a tow truck leaves. A man tightens a bolt on a guardrail. A man fixes a guardrail as people walk by. A driver observes a damaged car. A car races down the track, as they hit a turn the car hits a rail and swerves, other cars make the turn. Car after car spin out, finally a car spins, hits the sides and topples over (:07-2:09). Credits: Grant Piston Ring Company 'The Riverside 500' (2:10-2:42). A policeman opens a gate and a pickup truck carrying a trailer brings in the racing car. Cars prepare for the race. A tow truck. NASCAR officials check every car for the proper safety precautions. A clipboard with papers and a pen. A car drives out onto the track. Speeds build as cars race by. A man with a camera films it (2:43-4:17). Cars spin out on the track and take sharp corners. Cars drive by as a man waves a checkered flag. POV out of a windshield as the car takes a turn. Saturday is the consolation race, cars race on the track. Cars speed by, take corners, spin out. A man points at a car that goes off the track. Daytona 500 consolation race - a huge crash and pile up. Billy Wade of Houston, TX wins the consolation race (4:18-7:20). A mechanic works on a car at night. A man dials a phone. A supplier answers the phone. A piston is put together by the supplier. The man oils and lubricates the ring band. A band is placed onto the piston and closed. All of the pistons are wrapped to keep out dust. Another man takes the finished pistons and gets into his pick up truck. He drives to another building and drops off the pistons. The man there puts them into an engine (7:21-10:32). The finished engine is driven away. People are ready on race day. Cars wait on the track for the starting flag. Drivers buckle themselves in. A driver straps his helmet on. Balloons are launched into the air and the race begins. Cars drive by. The cars are on the track. The course is on a hillside with tricky S curves. The flag is waved and the race is in high gear. Turn 4, there are already problems as cars spin out. Car round a turn (10:33-14:49). Cars drive fast towards turn 9. Officials watch. People watch with pads. Cars race by. As the race goes on, a car spins out on Turn 6. Spectators watch. Cars race up a hill. A car slides off the course (14:50-17:53). Cars spin out and others keep going. Cars race on. A woman uses binoculars. A car wipes out on a corner. It is towed away. A pit stop for Parnelli Jones. Pit crew switches wheels and fix up the car. Race continues, Dan Gurney is in the lead. A racer, who's car crashed, packs up. Parnelli Jones is out. A car flips and flips and crashes. A wheel on the ground, a wrecked car overturned (17:54-22:04). A pit stop for another car with smoke coming out of the engine. Fireball Roberts is in the lead. Dan Gurney is right behind him. Roberts' car is serviced in the pit stop. His crew works as the smoke comes from under the hood. A car goes over the rail on turn 9. The car is on its proper side and isn't heavily damaged (22:05-23:54). Cars slow down for the caution flags. Pace car passes by in the penalty lap. Cars continue on. A car spins out. Another car spins out into the wood railing. Parnelli Jones watches as he's out of the race. A car spins out into the dirt. A car straightens out. People watch. A car end sup on top of hay bales (23:55-26:29). A car is in a pit stop. The race nears the end. Dan Gurney wins the race in his Ford (26:30-28:04). End credits (28:05-28:20).
    The Winston Western 500 was an annual NASCAR Winston Cup race held at Riverside International Raceway in Riverside, California, United States, in January, and then in later years, November. From 1963 to 1981, the race was held in January and was the season opening race. NASCAR elected to start its season with the Daytona 500 beginning in 1982, so a second Winston Western 500 was run in November to accommodate the change; the change resulted in Riverside hosting three Winston Cup races in 1981. The race ran in November from 1981 to 1987, serving as the Winston Cup Series' final race of the year from 1981 to 1986. The race distance was 500 miles until 1977 when it was shortened to 311 miles (500 kilometers). The other race held at Riverside, the Budweiser 400, was held in June.
    This film is part of the Periscope Film LLC archive, one of the largest historic military, transportation, and aviation stock footage collections in the USA. Entirely film backed, this material is available for licensing in 24p HD, 2k and 4k. For more information visit www.PeriscopeFilm.com

КОМЕНТАРІ • 103

  • @wtxrailfan
    @wtxrailfan 4 роки тому +34

    When men were men and women wore torpedo bras ... lol.

    • @AgentPepsi1
      @AgentPepsi1 4 роки тому +15

      I would gladly wear a "torpedo bra" (and a garterbelt and thigh high stockings under my dress too) if I could time-warp myself to 1963 for a little bit. 1963, was also a time when California was a nice state too. :)

    • @wtxrailfan
      @wtxrailfan 4 роки тому +5

      @@AgentPepsi1 I bet you'd look awesome in it too.

    • @cowboybob7093
      @cowboybob7093 4 роки тому +2

      21:08 yowsa!

    • @OverlandOne
      @OverlandOne 4 роки тому +7

      And "sexy" cat's eye glasses.

    • @babystrawberries6629
      @babystrawberries6629 2 місяці тому

      @@wtxrailfanshe ain’t gonna let you hit

  • @goober1973
    @goober1973 3 роки тому +6

    Dan Gurney. A true gentleman and class act in a rough era of racing.

  • @lonniebishop9787
    @lonniebishop9787 4 роки тому +11

    Vintage stock car racing at its best. Thanks PeriscopeFilm for this well preserved film.

    • @PeriscopeFilm
      @PeriscopeFilm  3 роки тому +3

      Love our channel? Help us save and post more orphaned films! Support us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/PeriscopeFilm Even a really tiny contribution can make a difference.

  • @bloqk16
    @bloqk16 4 роки тому +22

    A few things to consider for this *1963 race:* The *500* in this road race was for _miles_ in distance, and not the often used _kilometres_to make a road race sound like a long-distance event.
    This race lasted, at five hours, nearly two hours longer than oval track races of the same distance; with no relief drivers.
    No power steering for this road course race.
    Drivers of that era were truly *iron men.*

    • @jhurst1255
      @jhurst1255 4 роки тому +5

      The total elapsed time for this race was 5:53:20 for an average speed of 84.965mph!

    • @bloqk16
      @bloqk16 4 роки тому +2

      @@jhurst1255 Thanks for that detail. It reaffirms my take that the race drivers of that era were *IRON MEN.*

    • @donellmuniz590
      @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому +1

      Yeah, little Pee Wees like Kyle Larson couldn't have driven 'em back then. Or Jeff Gordon, even though he was my hero after Petty retired.

    • @timford3599
      @timford3599 3 роки тому +1

      @@donellmuniz590 I think you (like so many others) totally underestimate Kyle Larson's ability and stamina.

    • @donellmuniz590
      @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому +6

      @@timford3599 Don't know if you know this, but Cup cars back in the 60s weighed 3800 lbs, carried 600 lb big blocks under the hood, and didn't have power steering or air conditioned driving suits. Man's game.

  • @robertstockamp6992
    @robertstockamp6992 4 роки тому +7

    I grew up in Riverside and spent many a Sunday afternoon watching all the great race drivers and great race cars.I remember seeing the STP turbine Indy cars but of course my favorite driver was Dan Gurney.Damn shame they turned this great track into crappy houses.

    • @TS-ef2gv
      @TS-ef2gv 2 роки тому +2

      Most of the former track site is a crappy mall, surrounded by crappy houses. MoVal is Exhibit A of '80/'90s suburban sprawl. The last race I saw at RIR was the '84 summer race, the Budweiser 400, won by Terry Labonte in the Piedmont car. I still have the program somewhere.

  • @danareynolds1786
    @danareynolds1786 4 роки тому +5

    So cool to see the variety of manufacturers! A lot of Pontiacs! Their Super Duty 421 program was in full swing! Little did they know GM would officially pull out of racing at the end of the season. And yes, this race WAS in '63!

    • @donolbers9446
      @donolbers9446 3 роки тому +1

      Actually, GM pulled out of racing, cancelling all orders for Super Duty cars on Jan. 24, 1963, 4 days after this race. Bummer, we would probably all be running Pontiac engines instead of Chiverlays through the years.

  • @OverlandOne
    @OverlandOne 4 роки тому +6

    Awesome! Thanks for posting. I miss those days.

  • @warphammer
    @warphammer 4 роки тому +8

    Norm Thatcher, as seen in the sales pitch part of this film, was best known for building Chrysler-based Bonneville racers.

  • @alangee79010
    @alangee79010 4 роки тому +15

    Bias ply tires and bench seats! Riverside was a good track up til closed. Prime real estate.

    • @ronniewatkins
      @ronniewatkins 4 роки тому +2

      I think they built a mall of all things on the property

    • @garyglenn3654
      @garyglenn3654 Місяць тому +2

      A mall that is also not doing well.

  • @2098elk
    @2098elk 4 роки тому +2

    I was there in turn 6 as I was for many years., Dan Gurney for President! Great race course. Loved the Trams Am Series. Times Grand Prix, SCCA races there. RIP Riverside.

  • @georgekaplan6451
    @georgekaplan6451 4 роки тому +8

    Very surprised to see a Morris Minor pickup delivering the pistons.

  • @iamrichrocker
    @iamrichrocker 4 роки тому +8

    and you could tell what brand of cars they were..this was real driving...and a cold beer and cig after...

    • @OverlandOne
      @OverlandOne 4 роки тому +3

      Sometimes during the event as well. There is a video on here of an early 60's race where David Pearson pulls into the pits for tires/gas and is handed an ice cold Schafer beer and a lit cigarette. You can see him chug the beer, toss the can out the window and leave the pits with that cigarette in his mouth. Now THAT was racing.

  • @donellmuniz590
    @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому +4

    This is 63. Joe Weatherly was in a Pontiac. In 64, he drove a Mercury, hit the wall, and died.

    • @bloqk16
      @bloqk16 3 роки тому +2

      I suspect PeriscopeFilm purposely planted the year error for copyright protection, as they are the owner of this video. If someone else was to post or sell this video with the 1964 date in the title, then the ripoff person can get nailed for it.

  • @cheesenoodles8316
    @cheesenoodles8316 4 роки тому +18

    Real stock car racing....poor handling....mediocre brakes. Love the Pontiac Super Duties.

  • @garyglenn3654
    @garyglenn3654 Місяць тому

    No houses, nothing around the track. Those were the days!

  • @garymckee8857
    @garymckee8857 4 роки тому +4

    Now this is racing.

  • @charles1964
    @charles1964 Рік тому +3

    Back when "Stock Cars" meant a Stock Car

  • @badgumby9544
    @badgumby9544 Рік тому +3

    I doubt if any of the current NASCRAP drivers would be able to even finish this race.

  • @joestephan1111
    @joestephan1111 Рік тому +2

    Winston didn't become involved for many years later. The race at Riverside at that time was sponsored by Motor Trend magazine.

    • @PeriscopeFilm
      @PeriscopeFilm  Рік тому

      Any idea when the switch was made? We'd like to update the description. The b/g of the title card looks like it shows some kind of product, maybe an automobile belt or similar gasket or something?

    • @joestephan1111
      @joestephan1111 Рік тому

      @@PeriscopeFilm
      Don't have my press guides any more now that I'm retired. Late '80s, early '90s if I remember. Lot of time has passed

  • @Miatacrosser
    @Miatacrosser 4 роки тому +3

    Pontiacs may have been the fast cars in '61-'63(at the start of '63 anyway)but anyone who attended stock car races at Riverside in the '60s can tell you who the King of that Track was.
    Some notable drivers that were not or barely mentioned starting with #43..Petty finished 39th..broke trans. cause like a lot of the good ol' boys he didn't know how to shift in road races consistantly. Richard broke after 27 laps...it's ironic he would show up in November for the 400 miler with an Automatic Transmission!....he retired after 5 laps..broke trans.
    Gurney drove Fred's car and Fred drove Gurney's car. Lorenzen would become famous in the Holman/Moody #28 and Gurney would dominate most of the '60s at Riverside in the Wood Bros. #21/121.
    Modified hardtop fans on the west coast will remember the name Marshall Sargent #27...his on track rivalry with Al Pombo are Modified Hardtop Legend.
    Cars seen but not mentioned...#11 Ned Jarrett..6th pl, #4 Rex White, #6 David Pearson, #25 Bill Clinton(the Bill Clinton who really did not have sex with Monica L.), #1 Danny Letner..9th pl., for all his troubles #54 Jim Pardue finished 8th, #44 on trailer, Loyd Dane finished 44th.
    Notables not seen or mentioned...#0 Dave McDonald..would be killed at '64 Indianapolis 500 along with Eddie Sachs...finished 12th, #34 Wendell Scott...first blackman to race and win in Nascar's Grand National series..finished 18th after qualifing 33..was running at end of race, #97 Ron Hornaday(sr.)...the patriarch of the Hornaday name in motorsports..drove a '62 Ford entered by Galpin Ford to 11th pl., #98 Joe Ruttman yep that Joe Ruttman....the ageless wonder who outlasted all the racers you see here racing well into his '60s in top level Nascar series..he finished 10th driving one of three of the legendary Bill Stroppe's Mercurys. The others were "15 Parnelli Jones and #14 Troy Ruttman(3rd).
    I really miss Riverside International Raceway.

  • @bloqk16
    @bloqk16 4 роки тому +7

    I suspect the year of this race and the use of the _Winston_ name were purposely written into this upload's title as a means of copyright detection; similar to what map makers do with maps with misspelled street names; so the copyright holder has a way to prove their item was being used without authorization/permission.
    This was the 1963 race; and Winston didn't come onto the sponsorship scene for NASCAR until the early 1970s.

    • @OverlandOne
      @OverlandOne 4 роки тому +3

      Title says 1964...it is incorrect then? ***EDIT*** Ah, ok, I see it was indeed 63. Thanks.

  • @1MahaDas
    @1MahaDas 4 роки тому +4

    Wow! A clockwise direction race track? Besides the unusual turns, I didn't realize this course was as unique as anything could be! This must have "confounded" the drivers of the time!

    • @andyharman3022
      @andyharman3022 10 місяців тому +1

      Most road courses are clockwise.

  • @eugeneschulte4950
    @eugeneschulte4950 4 роки тому +10

    This was the.... 1963 Riverside race. Not 1964.

    • @laming2006
      @laming2006 4 роки тому +1

      Yup. The '63 race.

    • @jimstrict-998
      @jimstrict-998 4 роки тому

      I was waiting for the mention of Joe
      Weatherly's fatal crash...which happened in the 64 Riverside 500,
      where he was driving a Mercury.
      Thanks, Eugene, for the clarification.

  • @asd36f
    @asd36f 4 роки тому +2

    23:40 - Clem Procter having the most graceful crash in NASCAR history - Jim Paschal should take notes!

  • @farmcentralohio
    @farmcentralohio 4 роки тому +30

    Nascar should watch this film and realize how badly they have ruined the joke of a race series they have now.

    • @joestephan1111
      @joestephan1111 Рік тому +2

      NASCAR today is a crash & burn derby, not racing. I saw my first NASCAR race in 1964, my last one in '94. No comparison. In 1962, when most everything was still on dirt, I also saw MARC (which later became ARCA) do a 500 lap Stock Car race on a half-mile dirt oval in Pittsburgh, IMCA run a 400 lap convertible event on a paved guarter-mile high-bank in Chicago, and USAC do 350 laps of Stock Car racing on the half-mile Ascot in Los Angeles. AAA ran Stock Car races before USAC was formed. There was a time when there were half-a -dozen national Stock Car sanctioning bodies. When Chrysler boycotted NASCAR in 1965 they sent all of their teams over to race in USAC's similar division (with the exception of Richard Petty who they sent drag racing in the first "Hemi 'Cuda"). The first three or four Pocono Stock Car races were USAC before NASCAR came in. In addition to Stock Car races on ovals & road courses, USAC for many years also had a Stock Car division on Pikes Peak. The history of Stock Car racing goes much deeper than what NASCAR would have you believe.

    • @summstew5259
      @summstew5259 6 місяців тому +2

      I'm 66 and racing now is ten times better than the 60s. Races were won by 5 laps often ten. The past always seems better than it actually was

    • @chuckiefinster544
      @chuckiefinster544 Місяць тому

      This was a crash fest with a winner declared like ten laps in 😂 i love to watch this, and modern nascar is gimmicky, but it's so much more competitive.

    • @brentperkins83
      @brentperkins83 Місяць тому

      ​​@@joestephan1111 Good comment. Thank you.

    • @nullname0
      @nullname0 Місяць тому

      ​@@chuckiefinster544 and the playoff system?

  • @donolbers9446
    @donolbers9446 3 роки тому +4

    What are the big chrome things on each end of the cars?

    • @timford3599
      @timford3599 3 роки тому

      LOL!!!

    • @Ziggy_Moonglow
      @Ziggy_Moonglow 6 місяців тому

      1963 NASCAR International Rule Book
      Specifications
      NASCAR Grand National Championship Circuit
      Section 20-4 -- Bumpers
      a. Cars must be equipped with complete set of bumpers for make and model and must be in top quality condition. Recommend bumper ends should be bolted to fenders as a safety factor and must be approved by NASCAR.

  • @robertmccully2792
    @robertmccully2792 2 роки тому +1

    Wives Dad owned Riverside. He was also a hall of fame football player. Les Richter.

  • @philgiglio7922
    @philgiglio7922 2 роки тому +2

    Drum brakes at 160 mph.
    Thats a scary thought

  • @rcdyer
    @rcdyer 4 роки тому +3

    This is 63 I think and not 64. Joe Weatherly was killed in turn 5 at the Riverside race in 64.

  • @andyharman3022
    @andyharman3022 10 місяців тому

    Can you imagine trying to wrestle one of those big boats around a road course with no power steering and no power brakes? Then imagine doing it for 500 miles.
    I also like seeing the California landscape before urban sprawl consumed Riverside. Couldn't we have frozen time there in 1964?

  • @stevecusic
    @stevecusic 4 роки тому +1

    I would like to have one of those cars now

  • @jfsebastian7811
    @jfsebastian7811 4 роки тому +3

    " She had a 455 rocket, biggest block alive".

    • @donellmuniz590
      @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому +2

      Not in 63. In 63, the biggest "blocks" were in Lincolns, at 462. 455s and 472 (Caddy) engines came later, like 68.

    • @Ziggy_Moonglow
      @Ziggy_Moonglow 6 місяців тому +1

      Nope. Max engine size was 428 CID.
      a. Engine size (displacement) increase as a result of permissible overboring, measured at the base of the cylinder, is .010 for all eligible models, providing the total displacement does not exceed 428 cubic inches. Stroke must conform to AMA specifications.

  • @cowboybob7093
    @cowboybob7093 4 роки тому +2

    4:00 Richard Petty looks like he's the only one that waxed his car and polished the chrome.

    • @Miatacrosser
      @Miatacrosser 4 роки тому

      Ya he was the rich boy in racing back then...silver spoon from birth in Nascar. I'm sure he had people just to make the car look good even in the desert. Also he only lasted 27 laps cause in '63 he hadn't a clue how to run a road coarse and he kept breaking transmissions...in fact when they came back here in November(this race was before Daytona)he showed up with an automatic trans....that lasted 5 laps.

    • @coleboonecustoms
      @coleboonecustoms 4 роки тому

      @@Miatacrosser and now he has officially launched the fatal red herring to put the final nail in the NASCAR coffin.

  • @noviranger239
    @noviranger239 9 місяців тому

    This is essentially America’s version of early Bathurst.

  • @barrycuda3769
    @barrycuda3769 2 роки тому

    I love this era of racing ' and the cars' but there was a hell of a lot of sliding and crashing ' I think wider tires would have helped.

  • @ronniewatkins
    @ronniewatkins 4 роки тому +1

    I noticed a Richfield tanker in the infield. Did they not use Pure when they were out west?

  • @bullstuff3938
    @bullstuff3938 4 роки тому

    Go fast turn left is about the same as point it forward and gas it hard! And I like drag racing.....

  • @jerrycampbell9376
    @jerrycampbell9376 4 роки тому +1

    Ah, yes, racing before drifting was discovered......

  • @GabrielAlexander514
    @GabrielAlexander514 8 місяців тому

    Thank you so much for the upload! I hope someday we can start up a NASMCAR or something similar involving old muscle with today’s safety standards!

  • @bobmccown9914
    @bobmccown9914 5 місяців тому

    Great film!....but not 64, lol

  • @COIcultist
    @COIcultist 4 роки тому +1

    No champagne spraying here that had to wait until 1967 and Dan's historic win of Le Mans for the Ford team. Dan is credited as the inventor of the champagne spray which is half to three quarters true. Dan was the first person to do the act intentionally but the year previously the bottles had been left out in the sun and Jo Siffert accidentally spayed others with champagne.
    In 2012 Mr Gurney was the guest of honour at The Goodwood Revival I've attended for several years gaining entry by volunteering for charity. The woman I worked under met many of the great and good and not just from the racing world. I never saw her star stuck by anyone, but she was obviously most impressed by Dan Gurney.www.goodwood.com/grr/event-coverage/goodwood-revival/2020/7/video-celebrating-dan-gurney-at-goodwood/

    • @timford3599
      @timford3599 3 роки тому +2

      Isn't it ironic that Dan Gurney's epic win for Ford Motor Company in the awesome GT40 Mk IV at the 1967 edition of The 24 hours of Le Mans where he was teamed with The great A.J. Foyt, who coincidently finished 2nd to Dan in this race. These two men were polar opposites in personalities and temperaments, but as teammates they proved to be "The World's Best Sport Car Drivers" in 1967 as they dominated the field of 55 entries in the most grueling 24 Hour Endurance Race in the world at Le Mans.

  • @user-st9wb4fw1y
    @user-st9wb4fw1y 9 місяців тому

    Good show. I just don't get the horror movie music.

  • @davidglaum2538
    @davidglaum2538 4 роки тому

    I get a kick out of the sound effects.

  • @davdhartung9817
    @davdhartung9817 8 місяців тому

    1963.

  • @invisiblepuppet3437
    @invisiblepuppet3437 2 місяці тому

    13:48

  • @noviranger239
    @noviranger239 3 роки тому

    This is 1963.

  • @daria_morgandorffer5768
    @daria_morgandorffer5768 4 роки тому +1

    This was 1963, not 1964.

  • @johnpreisler6713
    @johnpreisler6713 4 роки тому

    Little Joe Weatherly is killed in this race

    • @manuelr.knippingreynoso1371
      @manuelr.knippingreynoso1371 4 роки тому

      Yep

    • @eugeneschulte4950
      @eugeneschulte4950 4 роки тому +4

      No!!!!! This was the 63 Riverside race. Joe was driving a 1963 pontiac. He crashed his 1964 mercury the next year. It was that crash that killed him.

    • @johnpreisler6713
      @johnpreisler6713 4 роки тому +3

      @@eugeneschulte4950 that would explain why it wasn't mentioned

    • @eugeneschulte4950
      @eugeneschulte4950 4 роки тому +2

      @@johnpreisler6713 Dan Gurney won the 1964 Riverside race too.

    • @cowboybob7093
      @cowboybob7093 4 роки тому +1

      Joe was series champion of '62 and '63.
      5:28 Joe's qualifying start / 26:06 Joe in the turn where he would meet his fate the next year.
      There's a clip of his accident, the hay bales of '63 were replaced by a wall in '64.
      There's a mention of a driver in his '63 model too, Detroit wouldn't like last year's model being highlighted.

  • @donkeightley8463
    @donkeightley8463 4 роки тому +1

    LOL this is barge racing, not car racing!!

  • @chrismarker1783
    @chrismarker1783 7 місяців тому

    It was 1963

  • @satanofficial3902
    @satanofficial3902 4 роки тому

    Actually... i fail to understand the logic in doing this. Adrenalin junkies do the strangest things.

    • @donellmuniz590
      @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому

      Ok Spock. Logic ain't got nothin' to do with it.

  • @satanofficial3902
    @satanofficial3902 4 роки тому

    I never go to races because racing is racist.
    Foot races, car races, motorcycle races, duck races... all racist.

    • @satanofficial3902
      @satanofficial3902 4 роки тому

      And, of course, the most RACIST!!! of all... hermit crab races!

    • @satanofficial3902
      @satanofficial3902 4 роки тому

      It's right in the word that racing is racist!

    • @jonmacdonald5345
      @jonmacdonald5345 4 роки тому +3

      I heard NASCAR will be installing automatic garage door openers to combat that!

    • @donellmuniz590
      @donellmuniz590 3 роки тому

      Why are you even here, killjoy? Get lost.