*Update:* There have been quite a few comments saying the machine looks crooked/uneven. I have spent about 20 minutes perplexed looking at the machine from all angles, and it's no more or less crooked than other espresso machines that I own. Or maybe I just need glasses. I think my wide angle lens (Sigma 16mm F1.4... if anyone cares😄), slightly uneven table top, along with the cup rails on the top might create that optical illusion. Anyway, I went back and found this video from a few years back where I have both a Gaggia Classic and a Breville Bambino side by side, and if anything they look even more crooked! ua-cam.com/video/WzopRx6vDIk/v-deo.htmlsi=FWidPz1tfi5vyKaj While I hope you can see that the production quality has increased since then, I might need to implement a new methodology for filming square and boxy objects in a more flattering way.
Glad you posted this comment - It was the first thing I came looking for in the comments to confirm what I was already thinking 🤣 And yes, as a passionate photographer (depending on the size of your camera’s sensor) I would agree that 16mm focal length is always going to be problematic that way; that said, you’ll find most wide angle lenses will exaggerate this effect the further you get from the centre of the frame, hence why where you have it positioned to one edge of the frame you’re getting this exaggerated effect. More importantly, I’m delighted to hear it’s not the machine that’s crooked! Was thinking of buying one for my daughter, who’s a university student that has got the bug for making espresso and milk based/latte art etc after using my Lelit Bianca. Was already looking at buying her the DF54 grinder when I saw they had this decent and cheap looking coffee machine - Great review videos BTW. Really good to see the improvements in the latest version 👍
I love mine, but I wish it had a filter in the water tank. Coming from a Solis, that was a feature I didn't realize how much I loved until I didn't have it.
$280 shipping to where i live. Which puts it at the same cost as a Profitec Go (without a straightforward return/repair option). Interested to hear your thoughts, but i think I'll take German over Chinese in that case.
These machines are often sold by local distributors under different names, just like the Miicoffee/Turin grinders. Maybe you'll find one more expensive, but with cheaper shipping locally :)
I’d get a Flair Pro 3 with a Dreo Barista maker with that budget tho hehe. That’ll maximize the quality for a single cup. But the miicoffee can still handle faster back to back shots for a group :p
I'm in the middle of looking for a quality machine at the moment! I'm still hesitating between the Sage Bambino Plus and the Gaggia Classic Pro, but I haven't found what I'm looking for yet! And then I come across this video of a machine that ticks all my boxes (especially as the Ascaso was in my sights but it was too expensive, and the design is very similar). Why haven't I heard of this machine before?
You mentioned the hungarian shop a few times, where you can buy these machines, and you can purchase there also a white labeled fairly cheap dual boiler too as I can see. But I cant find any test about it. It also have PID and opv for like 750 eur / 810 usd. I am curious whats the original product in that case.
Nice video as always… Just quick one.. I saw both of your reviews on DF54 and J-Ultra. In terms of taste for espresso and milk drinks, which one would be your preference?
The Apex V2 does look like a great machine, but I think you missed the point slightly about the Gaggia and Ranchillio machines, they are popular because they are very reliable people can keep them for 10 years, upgrade their machine and still be able to sell their old machine as they are so reliable, if they do go wrong they are easy to reapir and parts are readily available and quite cheap, those machines also quite easy to modify to suit what the user wants and there is a great community out there for both machines to reach out to if you have any questions, in that respect they also similar to older cars vs electric cars, where older cars you can repair or customise yourself with a little bit of knowledge or you can reach out to that cars owners club, but with electric cars you are forced to have what the manufacturer wants and you cannot so much as change a light bulb on your own it must go back to the dealer for expensive repairs.
Those are prosumer machines. I would categorize apex/legato under consumer espresso machines. I would compare this machine to breville, delonghi, etc. Those machines are also made in china and not modifiable when compared to gaggia and other prosumer machines.
@@evmdafilipino As someone who has owned all these machines, I'm very surprised by this distinction. The Apex is a good deal heavier than the Gaggia Classic and has a much larger stainless steel boiler at 550 ml. Actually, the Gaggia Classic has a tiny 100 ml boiler, which is around the same size as what's used on the cheap Delonghi Stilosa. Apex also has a bigger boiler than the Rancilio Silvia, but yes, overall the Silvia's build quality is more premium. Overall, I'd say these three machines have a lot in common.
Haven't used it myself, but for me the Gaggiuino Mod only appeals to a small subset of engineers/tinkerer. It's not something I'd recommend to regular people who value their spare time and sanity LOL
goddamn $200 NZD shipping, that's $120 USD, they should really investigate container shipping, that is a high cost. I understand the machine is heavy and they probably don't have thaat crazy a markup on shipping, but still, could put some customers off.
My big concern with the Apex is the long-term durability of these machines along with customer service. From other reviews I've read, their track record is not so great so I would be hesitant to even consider this machine until at least 2-3+ years down the road. While a bit more, I think the Profitec Go is one of the better machines to consider although it lacks in the workflow for milk-based drinks.
Just in time, I was searching around for an espresso machine that is decent to start a small coffee shop. In my place there is a different brand but with the same model (I think). Thank you for the review !
Haven't tried it, seems good for the price class. But it's more of a lightweight thermoblock machine whereas this is a more like a pimped Profitec Go :)
Thanks for the great review! How would this compare to the HX espresso machines with E61 group head? I guess the main difference would be that you cannot pull shot and steam milk at the same time with this one while HX can. I feel like this machine can have better temp stability and easier use (except shot and steam cannot happen at the same time) compared to the HX for home hobby users. I guess I am asking this question since I cannot make my mind between this and E61 HX that come at low $1000.
Great review. I am looking for a new machine coming from a Delonghi dedica and seeking a more serious machine without breaking the bank. I considered Gaggia and Rancillio but they need to be modded and unless you do it yourself doesn’t seem to be worth. I was also looking at Profitec Go. It looks nice but for the price of the Profitec I can get both the Miicoffee and a decent grinder. What is your opinion?
Because it's the same machine. They produce the same machine with different names for different countries. Same company that produces the df grinders btw. In Germany you find them under G-Iota in America under MiiCoffee and China under Turin
@@macgyroyo2000 Probably heavily inspired by the Lelit, the Chinese coffee equipment manufacturers will have reverse engineered comparable machines to see where they can cut corners to produce a cheaper clone.
Well, if the steam was dry… like on a Breville Dual boiler l, it would be called “dry steam” and would have contributed maybe 5 or less grams of water to complete steaming. Of course we’re speaking of a cost fact far more expensive.
While OPV-based brew pressure adjustment works well in theory, my experience with a Sage Barista Express was that it resulted in a huge water usage because the vibratory pump was still supplying water at the original pressure, and the OPV dumped excess water to the drip tray. Of course the BBE doesn't have a boiler. What is the water usage like with (say) 6 bar on this machine? Does it route over-pressure water back to the boiler, or the reservoir, or the drip tray?
@@Hundredthldiot most machines pipe OPV water back into the reservoir (or into a T-Piece in front of the pump to be immediately recirculated) and have the OPV between the pump and the boiler, so the water is cold.
Looks to me like a better option. If I were not already set with a machine and I were a relative beginner in espresso, this machine would be exactly the thing I would get.
Apex wins easily. Lelit Anna has half the boiler size for both brewing and steaming.The Lelit also has an unusual portafilter size that makes it much harder and more expensive to buy baskets and other gadgets.
I'm a big fan of both. If you're an espresso purist, Apex has a much higher ceiling. But if you value a minimal footprint, zero heat-up time, and auto milk steaming, then Bambino.
The top of the machine looks slanted. This machine is packed with great features and will be great for someone starting his home espresso journey. It's definitely not as well built as a GCP or a Silvia but let's be real if it was it would probably cost 2x more. it would be interesting to see how this machine holds up over the next few years.
They seem to have got things backwards. It would be a better machine if the thermablock was for brewing and the boiler for steam. I'm not sure why they went the other way around.
This way makes a lot of sense if you think about how you'd optimize a small classic single boiler. Creating a prosumer level thermoblock is a whole different challenge and only few companies have success and expertise to pull it off.
getting thermoblock temperature control to work well is not easy, at all. You kinda need to combine a thermoblock for heating water up a certain degree with a grouphead heater for the final bit, which makes it a lot more complicated. Quick mill has been selling machines that use a classic ring group with PID control for brewing and a thermoblock for steam, like this machine, for over a decade.
I think Miicoffee will ship to Europe or even sells on Amazon UK/Germany. Besides that there's a Hungarian shop named AVX and I'm sure others too. It's a brand new machine so might take some time before it gets there.
Місяць тому
I just checked avx and it is already available. @@coffeechronicler
I have some pretty severe reservations with this machine, it looks basically like a 90% ripoff of the design, interface and featureset of the Lelit Victoria.
Well, then we could also say that Lelit Mara is 90% a ripoff of the original E61 box from Vibiemme. Besides having a round display, I don't think there are that many similarities in neither features or design.
*Update:* There have been quite a few comments saying the machine looks crooked/uneven. I have spent about 20 minutes perplexed looking at the machine from all angles, and it's no more or less crooked than other espresso machines that I own. Or maybe I just need glasses.
I think my wide angle lens (Sigma 16mm F1.4... if anyone cares😄), slightly uneven table top, along with the cup rails on the top might create that optical illusion.
Anyway, I went back and found this video from a few years back where I have both a Gaggia Classic and a Breville Bambino side by side, and if anything they look even more crooked! ua-cam.com/video/WzopRx6vDIk/v-deo.htmlsi=FWidPz1tfi5vyKaj
While I hope you can see that the production quality has increased since then, I might need to implement a new methodology for filming square and boxy objects in a more flattering way.
Haha instead of the camera adding 10 pounds in this case it adds tilt 😂
Massive pincushion distortion. If you moved the machine to the other side of the table it would be "leaning" the other direction.
It is the lens. The countertop in the background is slanted as well.
Glad you posted this comment - It was the first thing I came looking for in the comments to confirm what I was already thinking 🤣 And yes, as a passionate photographer (depending on the size of your camera’s sensor) I would agree that 16mm focal length is always going to be problematic that way; that said, you’ll find most wide angle lenses will exaggerate this effect the further you get from the centre of the frame, hence why where you have it positioned to one edge of the frame you’re getting this exaggerated effect. More importantly, I’m delighted to hear it’s not the machine that’s crooked!
Was thinking of buying one for my daughter, who’s a university student that has got the bug for making espresso and milk based/latte art etc after using my Lelit Bianca. Was already looking at buying her the DF54 grinder when I saw they had this decent and cheap looking coffee machine - Great review videos BTW. Really good to see the improvements in the latest version 👍
If only there was a matte black version matching DF grinders....
"anatomically correct heart" had me in stitches!
An anatomically correct heart, lmao!
Great review, Asser. I've been wanting to take the leap from lever espresso and this is really enticing.
Thanks for the kind words! Usually I can only pour abstract latte art, but guess I'm lucky today :)
I love mine, but I wish it had a filter in the water tank. Coming from a Solis, that was a feature I didn't realize how much I loved until I didn't have it.
$280 shipping to where i live. Which puts it at the same cost as a Profitec Go (without a straightforward return/repair option).
Interested to hear your thoughts, but i think I'll take German over Chinese in that case.
These machines are often sold by local distributors under different names, just like the Miicoffee/Turin grinders. Maybe you'll find one more expensive, but with cheaper shipping locally :)
In my country I could buy 3 of these for the price of Profitec Go 😅
@@patsmythe1880 where I live (Czech Republic) Profitec Go costs 1100$ O.o
Looks like a great machine for the price!
Thanks for the review
People always forget that a good repair network is also very important.
"If you're a bit of an espresso hipster" 🤣
Thank you for the review! I am looking for an entry level machine and looks like the miicoffee is a perfect fit.
Pretty good value for money!
I’d get a Flair Pro 3 with a Dreo Barista maker with that budget tho hehe. That’ll maximize the quality for a single cup.
But the miicoffee can still handle faster back to back shots for a group :p
can you test the Philips Baristina? I know its not like a really advanced thing but its a easy to use cheap espresso machine without much to it.
I'm in the middle of looking for a quality machine at the moment!
I'm still hesitating between the Sage Bambino Plus and the Gaggia Classic Pro, but I haven't found what I'm looking for yet!
And then I come across this video of a machine that ticks all my boxes (especially as the Ascaso was in my sights but it was too expensive, and the design is very similar). Why haven't I heard of this machine before?
Go for it! Much better to learn on than both of those. It only came out less than a year ago, so that's why it's still relatively unknown.
You mentioned the hungarian shop a few times, where you can buy these machines, and you can purchase there also a white labeled fairly cheap dual boiler too as I can see. But I cant find any test about it. It also have PID and opv for like 750 eur / 810 usd. I am curious whats the original product in that case.
Nice video as always…
Just quick one.. I saw both of your reviews on DF54 and J-Ultra. In terms of taste for espresso and milk drinks, which one would be your preference?
If we're only talking espresso taste, J-Ultra is my favorite.
Informative video, thank you.
How long between powering on and pulling a shot?
Heat up time is about 7-10 minutes.
@@coffeechronicler Thanks!
I want one so bad!
The Apex V2 does look like a great machine, but I think you missed the point slightly about the Gaggia and Ranchillio machines, they are popular because they are very reliable people can keep them for 10 years, upgrade their machine and still be able to sell their old machine as they are so reliable, if they do go wrong they are easy to reapir and parts are readily available and quite cheap, those machines also quite easy to modify to suit what the user wants and there is a great community out there for both machines to reach out to if you have any questions, in that respect they also similar to older cars vs electric cars, where older cars you can repair or customise yourself with a little bit of knowledge or you can reach out to that cars owners club, but with electric cars you are forced to have what the manufacturer wants and you cannot so much as change a light bulb on your own it must go back to the dealer for expensive repairs.
With electric cars, you simply will not need 90% of service and repairs on old combustion engines.
Those are prosumer machines. I would categorize apex/legato under consumer espresso machines. I would compare this machine to breville, delonghi, etc. Those machines are also made in china and not modifiable when compared to gaggia and other prosumer machines.
@@evmdafilipino As someone who has owned all these machines, I'm very surprised by this distinction. The Apex is a good deal heavier than the Gaggia Classic and has a much larger stainless steel boiler at 550 ml.
Actually, the Gaggia Classic has a tiny 100 ml boiler, which is around the same size as what's used on the cheap Delonghi Stilosa.
Apex also has a bigger boiler than the Rancilio Silvia, but yes, overall the Silvia's build quality is more premium. Overall, I'd say these three machines have a lot in common.
Looks like a much nicer package. I wonder whether Kafmasino will build their machine using this version.
Sounds great
The top of the machine seems to be a little 'off'. Seems to have a tilt or angle to it. How is the construction quality?
Nothing off IRL. Probably just the lens of the camera that distorts the angles a bit.
There's a lot of lens distortion here.
His table also seems curved 😂. It's probably just the camera lens.
@@coffeechronicler I had the same thought about the angles as well. 😆 That distortion is fairly intense, all things considered.
it's lens distortion
Thank you for the early review! Any info avialble on OPV kits for the v1s?
What do you think about this v2 model or GCP or the Rancilio Silvia with the Gaggiuino mod?
Haven't used it myself, but for me the Gaggiuino Mod only appeals to a small subset of engineers/tinkerer. It's not something I'd recommend to regular people who value their spare time and sanity LOL
@@coffeechronicler lol thanks!
goddamn $200 NZD shipping, that's $120 USD, they should really investigate container shipping, that is a high cost. I understand the machine is heavy and they probably don't have thaat crazy a markup on shipping, but still, could put some customers off.
My big concern with the Apex is the long-term durability of these machines along with customer service. From other reviews I've read, their track record is not so great so I would be hesitant to even consider this machine until at least 2-3+ years down the road. While a bit more, I think the Profitec Go is one of the better machines to consider although it lacks in the workflow for milk-based drinks.
Just in time, I was searching around for an espresso machine that is decent to start a small coffee shop. In my place there is a different brand but with the same model (I think). Thank you for the review !
this is not dessigned for professional use, will overheat
Would you prefer this one or the Hibrew H10a?
Haven't tried it, seems good for the price class. But it's more of a lightweight thermoblock machine whereas this is a more like a pimped Profitec Go :)
I dont think there is much comparison the miicoffee is much better. But the Hibrew is cheaper
Just buy this and put rest into a good grinder I guess
Thanks for the great review! How would this compare to the HX espresso machines with E61 group head? I guess the main difference would be that you cannot pull shot and steam milk at the same time with this one while HX can. I feel like this machine can have better temp stability and easier use (except shot and steam cannot happen at the same time) compared to the HX for home hobby users. I guess I am asking this question since I cannot make my mind between this and E61 HX that come at low $1000.
More about that on the channel very soon 😊 I can say that I'm sceptical about HX/E61 combos
What portafilter and filter-basket are you using in in this video?
Great review. I am looking for a new machine coming from a Delonghi dedica and seeking a more serious machine without breaking the bank. I considered Gaggia and Rancillio but they need to be modded and unless you do it yourself doesn’t seem to be worth. I was also looking at Profitec Go. It looks nice but for the price of the Profitec I can get both the Miicoffee and a decent grinder. What is your opinion?
This is the same machine as the Turin Legato V2 correct?
That's correct
yes, it's sold under many names
Can you brew and steam at the same time on this machine?
This looks suspiciously similar to the Turin Legato V2!
You are correct!
Let the clone wars BEGIN!
Same factory
Because it's the same machine. They produce the same machine with different names for different countries. Same company that produces the df grinders btw. In Germany you find them under G-Iota in America under MiiCoffee and China under Turin
I thought it's a new Lelit Victoria
@@macgyroyo2000 Probably heavily inspired by the Lelit, the Chinese coffee equipment manufacturers will have reverse engineered comparable machines to see where they can cut corners to produce a cheaper clone.
I would love to know how it performs compared to the ninja luxe cafe (excluding its grinder)
first timing hearing someone refer to water as wet steam
lmao
Well, if the steam was dry… like on a Breville Dual boiler l, it would be called “dry steam” and would have contributed maybe 5 or less grams of water to complete steaming. Of course we’re speaking of a cost fact far more expensive.
While OPV-based brew pressure adjustment works well in theory, my experience with a Sage Barista Express was that it resulted in a huge water usage because the vibratory pump was still supplying water at the original pressure, and the OPV dumped excess water to the drip tray. Of course the BBE doesn't have a boiler. What is the water usage like with (say) 6 bar on this machine? Does it route over-pressure water back to the boiler, or the reservoir, or the drip tray?
@@Hundredthldiot most machines pipe OPV water back into the reservoir (or into a T-Piece in front of the pump to be immediately recirculated) and have the OPV between the pump and the boiler, so the water is cold.
@@tommihommi1 Ah, ok, thanks. Must be a limitation of the BBE mod I used.
@@Hundredthldiot in those machines, the OPV is more intended as a safety feature, not as something you hit constantly during a shot
How would this compare to the Sage Bambino Plus? Is it a big improvement or not so much? Mainly making espresso, not as many milk based drinks.
For espresso it's a big improvement, especially if you want to work with more challenging roasts.
@@coffeechronicler much appreciated 👍 have a good weekend
Went on Amazon, found many comments about build quality of these machines.
Can it be and steam simultaneously? No hot water output?
Is there anyone in Europe selling the V2?
Anatomically correct machine, anatomically incorrect camera lens.
Probably right about that :)
It looks like the machine is a bit curved to the left?
I wonder if the Profitec Go adds a value compared to this machine?
How does this compare to the Breville/Sage ?
Looks to me like a better option. If I were not already set with a machine and I were a relative beginner in espresso, this machine would be exactly the thing I would get.
Is the design at the top a bit lopsided or am I tripping?
Between this or the Lelit PL41TEM what would you choose ?
Apex wins easily. Lelit Anna has half the boiler size for both brewing and steaming.The Lelit also has an unusual portafilter size that makes it much harder and more expensive to buy baskets and other gadgets.
Try South Indian coffee filter and taste the difference love from India🇮🇳 thanks God bless you
This or sage Bambino?
I'm a big fan of both. If you're an espresso purist, Apex has a much higher ceiling. But if you value a minimal footprint, zero heat-up time, and auto milk steaming, then Bambino.
@@coffeechronicler i like non milk coffees
how come this is the same price as the Ninja Lux ?
The top of the machine looks slanted. This machine is packed with great features and will be great for someone starting his home espresso journey. It's definitely not as well built as a GCP or a Silvia but let's be real if it was it would probably cost 2x more. it would be interesting to see how this machine holds up over the next few years.
Why not just Profitec Go?
Single heating element and twice as expensive, just a guess.
Very good guess :)
They seem to have got things backwards. It would be a better machine if the thermablock was for brewing and the boiler for steam. I'm not sure why they went the other way around.
This way makes a lot of sense if you think about how you'd optimize a small classic single boiler. Creating a prosumer level thermoblock is a whole different challenge and only few companies have success and expertise to pull it off.
getting thermoblock temperature control to work well is not easy, at all. You kinda need to combine a thermoblock for heating water up a certain degree with a grouphead heater for the final bit, which makes it a lot more complicated.
Quick mill has been selling machines that use a classic ring group with PID control for brewing and a thermoblock for steam, like this machine, for over a decade.
Is it available in Europe?
I think Miicoffee will ship to Europe or even sells on Amazon UK/Germany. Besides that there's a Hungarian shop named AVX and I'm sure others too. It's a brand new machine so might take some time before it gets there.
I just checked avx and it is already available. @@coffeechronicler
@@coffeechroniclerthe first version was AVX DB1, I'm not sure that the second version is called.
It says on their website it only takes up to 120V. So you will fry it in the land of the many volts.
@@iustinianmihailfocsa I used a 220V version here, so I'm sure both will be available
Is it me or does every photo or video of that machine look like it's bending to the left ?
It doesn’t have a bend. Source: I have one
Iced hario switch ultimate recipe video
I think I’d rather stay with my delonghi ecp
Celcius but no Farenheit
Gteat for a few years until soe thing breaks. No parta or service will be available.
All the parts in it are easily replaceable
I actually think you have a much better chance getting this fixed than a Breville Bambino
@@coffeechronicler I agree. Especially since there’s a company out there “gaggiuioning” the thing. Surely they, if no one else, has access to spares.
Not Multivoltage.
that machine leans more than the tower of pisa it seems
It’s his camera, the whole table and bench look slanted
I have some pretty severe reservations with this machine, it looks basically like a 90% ripoff of the design, interface and featureset of the Lelit Victoria.
Well, then we could also say that Lelit Mara is 90% a ripoff of the original E61 box from Vibiemme. Besides having a round display, I don't think there are that many similarities in neither features or design.