Piston Coating is it worth it???
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- So we previously coated some pistons at home. So now we test them and see if it is worth it.
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technical studies have been done with coated piston crown,valve faces and exposed cylinder roof which reduced fuel consumption by 10%...........the engine is more efficient when heat is kept where its needed to actually push the piston to make power.
So.....why isn't this process used on production cars? Manufacturers spend a lot of money trying to obtain more mpg - this would be an easy way to obtain a 10% gain. If this really is so beneficial - I feel that we would see it on engines coming from the folks who make them.
because manufacturers always keep tricks up their sleeves for future models. They only use enough features /tech/innovation to keep level with competitors and sell the current model. Coatings do work, they are used for now mostly on external hot surfaces with the most benefit and easiest application.
@@davidwhitacre534 pistons on industrial engines are coated from the factory.
From 1000km range to 1100km
That's quite the improvement
@@davidwhitacre534 production cost would be too high, because of all the additional steps it would take to do this reliably.
Heat is what drives the pistons, keeping the heat in the combustion chamber will always increase combustion efficiency which is a good thing. You will produce more power with less fuel if the combustion chamber is kept hot vs losing heat though the piston. Even with an air cooled engine the heads will not get hotter because you would simply be burning more fuel to obtain the same output of power if your heat is lost through the piston so the heat on the top side (your heads) will be the same for the given power output.
Excellent vid!
Sounds like the potential for preignition rises with coated combustion surfaces retain more heat, but also disallowing for oil cooling to be effective when oil jets are used.
Why not coat the exhaust to keep the engine bay cooler? I would not want to coat the engine block, just the exhaust manifold and pipes going out.
I have to agree with Dalland, the IR temp gun will not read correctly on a shiny surface and in my experience, really gets messed up on shiny aluminum. I would be more willing to accept the "bottom" numbers. Maybe, if you care enough, you could scuff up the uncoated piston surface to dull it and possibly get better readings. Thanks for your efforts though!
Turbostang500 I might try the test again one day, got a few loose ends to tie up first. I will probably sand blast the top of the uncoated piston next time and we will see if there is a different. Plus im thinking of seeing what an old crusty piston would do. Thanks for the tip and don't forget to hit the Bell as I plan on coming back to this one.
Thanks for putting in the work and research Matt!
No problem, thought it was interesting.
@@MattLundquistVW usually the coating gets removed with time if you arent taking appart the engine for a long time
So even coating the lower side of the piston will prevent heat from escaping while providing a very long term coating life
It makes quite a big difference to head temp if you cote the combustion chamber in head as well. Im seeing 20-27 degrees C drop in head temps but have also done the outside of the heads with thermal grey
We did the chambers and pistons on a single port. Just got to get it in the car now ( work schedule is crazy). Good to hear that others are having good results with it.
I want to make a plasma engine and this seems like the only way I could do it without eating the engine
(Realistically I don't have the funding or tools, but I like to imagine and act like I do lol)
Great video! Very interesting. Are you planning to also coat the exhaust channel?
One warning for measuring with ir gun, when using on shiny surfaces the values are not to be trusted. So it might measure a lower value on the uncoated piston top than what's the reality.
I plan on coating the chamber and valves as well as the exhaust ports. My thought is try to keep the heat from absorbing into the head, let it all pass out the exhaust.
When you applied this to your air cooled VW's, what kind of results did you get regarding knock performance and efficiency?
Right on.. nice work
Hmmm... Interesting.... Great work Matt!!
Heat is energy. Aluminum heads lose power from losing heat vs iron. So the coating "should" make better power.
Those I.R. thermometers are very sensitive to the surface material.. The "ceramic" would require a different setting to be accurate VS bare aluminum... This might be why you are seeing a massive 125* top difference with only a 25* under the piston. See if the numbers are equal at room temp...
Just checked your idea out. And at room temperature the coated side of the piston was the same as the uncoated bottom side of the piston.
more heat in the chamber is good.
completely vaporized fuel resists detonation, and as the charges heat up more, your compression complimentary increases.
of course keeping your oil cooler is very important, but benefit older engines, ( without knock sensors )
Interesting experiment Matt. I think that the heat that cannot penetrate the coated surface involves the piston and goes to its walls, heating up the piston. Surely another result would be obtained if the pistons walls were isolated.
In a VW air-cooled emgine coat only the piston top and intake valve face, leave the exhaust valve and chamber surface uncoated, as this is how the engine dissapates heat. A major benefit can be had by DLC coating on piston skirts, and valve stems.
Problem with using an IR gun it that it’s really only picking up the surface temp. You will find the temp under the surface of the piston will be lower beneath coating
Hey can we use that with a compressor piston
Matt do you think this will cause or be more likely to cause detonation? And will the timing curve will need some attention. I am new to your channel and looking to pick up a baja very soon. Thank you, your channel is awesome.
Robert sorry for the late reply. To tell you the truth I don't know. This is my first time playing with this stuff and I have to learn. My thought is that timing will be about the same but jetting would be different ( more fuel to cool it) but in all reality 100° or so may not make a difference when your EGT's run into the 1400°. This test does not account for heat escaping through the exhaust or how the incoming fuel and air would cool the piston face. Mostly it does show that the coating keeps some of the heat from transferring to the other side. I hope to have more information once I get the engine together.
@@MattLundquistVW thank you sir i will definitely be tuned in to the channel. Thanks again.
These are all assumptions. Need to adjust timing and jetting as needed on the running engine.
Some might be opposite what you theorize.
wonder if the added heat will cause more head gasket failures and head warping
There is no “added heat”, the gases don’t get any warmer they are the source of the heat, and the combustion temperature does not change. They just stay warm a little longer and more of that energy pushes the piston down instead of going through it. Ideally you would coat the valves (easy) and perhaps the chambers too.
@@axelriet I'm really new to this whole "coating engine internals", but can you really coat the cylinders? won't it just wear down quickly and be a waste of time?
Edit 1: *Assuming "chambers" is another term for cylinders*
Edit 2: * won't the coating wear down fast on the cylinder walls due to the friction between the piston and cylinder walls*
@@anybudz the chamber is the head above the piston where the valves are seated.
Theres actually less heat induced into the cooling system with insulated pistons, meaning you should see fewer head problems.
Very interesting... I would think for me in a performance application with turbo charging my old shity Datsun. I would want to remove heat from the piston and use oil to do that. so... maybe no coating for me. Unless there are coatings out there that would deflect the Heat? I like the idea of sacrificial coating on the skirt of the Piston to help with lubrication.
"turbo charging my old shity Datsun" The ring pack will last longer especially if you run the boost up. A lot of heat moves through the ring pack to the cylinder walls but first through the piston.
An extreme example is a motocross bike that needs rings after a weekend at the races bc it won't pass a leak down test.
Keeping heat in at the crown of the piston could cause increased chance of detonation. Even more so if it has any sharp edges.
The heat is in the crown because the torch is there🤷
It seems that for coating to be truly effective you have to coat the piston top, combustion chamber and the exhaust as well to get the heat out.
You also have to think that was under constant flame,
At what rate would that coating cool in an engine?
The laws of thermal transfer, the top of the piston can not be cooler than the bottom. You need to have them upside, filled with oil and measure how long they take to reach 200c etc.
Coated with WHAT?
Cerakote V-136 ,v-139 oven cure, c-186 air cure piston coating.
204 in a back 125 in a front... WTF... makes no sense. To use proper temperature measurement procedures would be of more help, but thank you for the effort anyway, thank you for sharing!
what about chrome plating the combustion chambers ??
A fine polish is a poor man’s thermal barrier.
Does this help the piston wheen boost is a factor?
Yes
@@davidreyes2298 does it keep the piston at a cool down temp?
@@weliftnation2418 yes because the coating keeps the heat in the cylinder than going through the pistons
How much wood can a woodchuck chuck,if a woodchuck could chuck wood?Coated and uncoated wood.