I wish I still worked at that anodizing shop when I was 16... could have run this set of pistons through for free. That hard coat is amazing... almost impossible to scratch aluminum once its on there.
@@HandMadeWrath its crazy, you can chuck a set of coated valve covers down the street and not have a scratch, I'm not sure if car wheels would hold up to curb rash but it would be interesting to test it lol
@@HandMadeWrath In your garage. Diluted sulfuric acid to about 15%, submerge aluminum piston, throw the juice to it till it suits your needs. Anodizing does add to the size of the part, DN, etc.
What a great vid. Being a mechanic that does a lit of modified motors, i love keeping up with new tech that comes out. My biggest problem has been getting some of these features when ordering my parts from Summit (and i live in Australiia- an ordering error becomes a BIT IG PROBLEM). Well the snappa heads running the phones over there jave never let me order anything that wasn't a direct off the shelf part, using the excuse of "if there isn't a specific part # with what you want, we can order you stuff like that"!!! I'm seriously not kidding. This has happened many times and even with simple shit like (sorry, having a menal blank at the moment) getting little holes around the outside edge of the crown that can be used to help seal the top comp ring (i can't believe i can't remember the tech name for them- was prob on the piss a bit hard last night and am a little hung over. Yeah those Summit counter staff are clowns when it comes to accessibility of some of these types of features. You guys need to talk to them about that. Just offering some of my real life experience as someone in the trade going through one of your largest suppliers and them not even trying to be helpful... Thanks guys. Love your work
@@joshr8680 Was gonna just add in as well summitt sells parts they don't make jack squat ..even the summitt brand stuff isnt made by them. when you want custom made shit you contact the manufacturer and then see if that combo already has a part number and then see if summitt can order you the part. if all else fails get the name of the salesperson and mail um a turd .. doesn't need to be yours it could be your dogs after you feed um mexican food
I wonder if they could do nikasil on the top of a piston. Wouldn't that be harder and better than any of those coatings far as on the top of the piston.
After watching a bunch of these videos i think expansion ratio also plays a big role here not just hardness and temp resistance If it's only hardness and temp resist, why not tungsten carbide or just use TiAlCN
I think you have to calculate that by mentioning to an engine builder plus mentioning whether you have iron or aluminum heads, and if you have the old combustion chamber design or a newer one to determine the type needed for 91 octane.
Dude you didn't even mention the fact of the different circumstances when it comes to anodizing or non anodizing pistons when you fully anodizer piston it does make it harder however it does also make it subject to wear and under heat contracting and detracting of the anodized metals can cause cracking which can annihilate and inevitably lead to engine failure. I was a roadkill fan for a long time. But this was a poor explanation of the actual product and how it performs. I wouldn't bother posting this thread if I was the product manager if it would lead to unfortunate blind faith in a product unexpectedly failing because there hero or fan were poorly promoting a product that destroyed their dream car they may have been working on for over a decade. Too neglect that fact and to risk crushing a person's spirit like that due to your own fragrant attitude........ Poor form..... do better
Great video, should I use a cast or forged piston for my Honda k20z4 engine? Building a naturally aspirated with 12.5:1 compression, is 12.5:1 compression not too high for pump fuel?
The method that can be used on cylinder wall. (Wall)metal, ceramic, lubricant, metal(piston) Plumbing - metal to plastic, plastic to metal (not always metal to metal or plastic to plastic)
I have heard that Carillo is much better at getting thing done quickly. Harrys Garage needed to rebuild a Lamborghini Espada and custom pistons were the only way to do the job. They shipped their existing 82.2mm pistons, told them they needed a custom 82.5mm replacement, the dome and valve reliefs had to match, and in less than 3 weeks they had perfect replacements. They had to ship their old 82.2mm pistons from the UK to the USA, so I am sure that added a significant amount of time to that, so Carillilo might be even quicker.
F1 piston use different materials in the alloy than off the shelf one's. The skirts are coated with zylon. This reduces friction and helps transfer heat better. The piston clearances are tighter and as low as 1 thou piston to wall clearance. Piston rings being 1mm PVD coated piston rings reducing even more friction is used. Piston top has a ceramic coating on them. Cylinder wall is made with secret type of material also coating that is on it I couldn't find out what they use or how they produce all the liners used. They are very hard to get information about certain aspects of the materials used for a engine for reasons I did realise. I had to move to asking other questions that could be answered as it was getting some stern words to move onto another one. The weight of the piston I found surprised me at 90g. 16mm pin made of a strong steel he never went into but he told me it had a PVD coating of Titanium Nickel in the surface. Rods are also Titanium and not very long and design is like a X and weigh 120g each. The way it attaches to crankshaft is clever design I noticed but asking what is used to join it he said I can't show you what is used in the attaching onto the crankshaft. Which had a very short stroke but also couldn't say what it is. But I estimate about 40mm to 50mm of stroke looking at it. Very light and small journal's that you would think would handle revving to over 6000rpm and more with Turbo boost technology aswell. My Mrs worked at Mercedes in Brackley near Silverstone in the UK and managed to get me in for a tour due to being known due to building engines for a living and getting reputation for high specced one's that have great results. The engine tech never new I did it for a living until I asked certain aspects of the technology in engines only very few people would no. When he said to me how I new so much about engine technology I had to tell him what I do as a living and I thought you knew about it because the Mrs spoke about what I do for work but she never spoke about me just said I was interested in engines. I was in engine unit for nearly 2hrs asking questions and looking at schematics of some components. And before going into the unit I had to wear a painters suit hair net and gloves to enter. Clean room was like a theatre of a hospital with tools that cost nearly a million in fancy drawers on one side and when a tool was taken out it was registered it was out with the time and person who had taken it out, it was on a big screen the information about the person who is using it, all with barcodes that is on tools and a card the person has to use to open the draws before getting any tool. Asking how much was the torque wrench on the bench for curiosity he said it cost over £2000 and that's the small one the biggest one was near the £5000 mark. He laughed when I swore when I said fuck me I only paid £120 for my one. My day was interesting to say the least but learned quite a bit about F1 V6 1.6 engine they have and how it makes over 600bhp from this tiny engine. Hope you now have a better understanding of the F1 components used in the engines? Sorry if I've gone on to long with what I've written. Lol. Just realised what time it is. D'oh.
@@tazgrant4521 Very Good! I mess around with Domestic Chevy V8's LS engines and have worked on everything up to 632cu.in. Alcohol engines. And it doesn't matter what Motorsport you are into, F1, Australian SuperCar, MotoGP, Some principal will never change when it comes to making Horse power. Thank you for sharing your story.
Elsewhere on youtube is a video of a Honda V10 that runs 20,000 rpm's. I guess that's for some sort of Formula 1 style racing. I'm wondering what those pistons are made of for that V10
@@tazgrant4521 I have heard that in some racing leagues, some people have successfully developed .7mm compression rings. Total Seal builds them and you can buy them and you don't have to be a race engine builder to buy them. Also, some racing rings have a ceramic coating for high durability and low friction, and I have heard the formula is a closely guarded secret. 1mm compression rings used to be for auto racing only, but I think some street driven gasoline engines can now use them and go for ages. Some also use those special coatings. They have even made their way into boosted engines. Obviously they aren't making such extreme horsepower out of such tiny engines, but they also aren't building engines to last a very limited distance.
I think Wiseco specializes in powersports pistons of nearly any size. They have some off the shelf and can make some custom. Here they mention a few engines of that size www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/DirtBike.aspx Most of them have coated skirts, but I don't think coated domes are an option. However, you could pay another company add the coating.
You can skip the vid and I'll explain it in 1 sentence for you: basically a piston coating provides a decrease in heat generation, less friction inside the cylinder and yes it is always worth it to have a coated piston or even better to have a coated piston and coated cylinder walls.
Piston rings with gap not correctly done especially in charged engines can break the landings of the piston due to expansion being increased with higher temps. Rings need bigger gap so they don't butt ends with piston expansion of higher temps. Diamond, J.E. C.P. and Supertech are top quality manufacturer name's of pistons. C.P. are the one's i tend to get if available. Coating the crown of a piston helps in turbo applications better.
![Why Do NASCAR Teams Use This Technology? | Calico DLC Coatings [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AunRiiSidBE/mqdefault.jpg)
Yay, David fordberger
Wow, it's Freiburger. Cool video, very informative.
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 TRUMP 2024
I do alot of Cerakote piston coating on our MX race bikes, especially the KTMs as they seem to hold out a bit better on our riders.
Can i get gold plated piston? Cause im ballin
2:20 I have the Hot Rod magazine that gives more detail about that 347 ci engine. Pretty cool.
I purchased a pair of pistons for my RC51 and they came uncoated. I emailed them and got no reply 😡
I wish I still worked at that anodizing shop when I was 16... could have run this set of pistons through for free. That hard coat is amazing... almost impossible to scratch aluminum once its on there.
What where can i get this done?
@@HandMadeWrath its crazy, you can chuck a set of coated valve covers down the street and not have a scratch, I'm not sure if car wheels would hold up to curb rash but it would be interesting to test it lol
@@triggerwarning2439 but where can i get it done?
@@HandMadeWrath look up anodizing, or anodizing and electro plating, usually they do both
@@HandMadeWrath In your garage. Diluted sulfuric acid to about 15%, submerge aluminum piston, throw the juice to it till it suits your needs. Anodizing does add to the size of the part, DN, etc.
What a great vid. Being a mechanic that does a lit of modified motors, i love keeping up with new tech that comes out. My biggest problem has been getting some of these features when ordering my parts from Summit (and i live in Australiia- an ordering error becomes a BIT IG PROBLEM). Well the snappa heads running the phones over there jave never let me order anything that wasn't a direct off the shelf part, using the excuse of "if there isn't a specific part # with what you want, we can order you stuff like that"!!! I'm seriously not kidding. This has happened many times and even with simple shit like (sorry, having a menal blank at the moment) getting little holes around the outside edge of the crown that can be used to help seal the top comp ring (i can't believe i can't remember the tech name for them- was prob on the piss a bit hard last night and am a little hung over. Yeah those Summit counter staff are clowns when it comes to accessibility of some of these types of features. You guys need to talk to them about that. Just offering some of my real life experience as someone in the trade going through one of your largest suppliers and them not even trying to be helpful... Thanks guys. Love your work
Know this is a old video. But when try to get custom options/designs it’s better to reach out directly to the manufacturer
@@joshr8680 Was gonna just add in as well summitt sells parts they don't make jack squat ..even the summitt brand stuff isnt made by them. when you want custom made shit you contact the manufacturer and then see if that combo already has a part number and then see if summitt can order you the part. if all else fails get the name of the salesperson and mail um a turd .. doesn't need to be yours it could be your dogs after you feed um mexican food
DF is the best! Great stuff! I have JE's in my Suzuki.
I wonder if they could do nikasil on the top of a piston. Wouldn't that be harder and better than any of those coatings far as on the top of the piston.
After watching a bunch of these videos i think expansion ratio also plays a big role here not just hardness and temp resistance
If it's only hardness and temp resist, why not tungsten carbide or just use TiAlCN
What's the best piston for 91 octane gas? I want the most power, and the most carbon resistance for the tops of my piston, my engine is a 454
instablaster
I think you have to calculate that by mentioning to an engine builder plus mentioning whether you have iron or aluminum heads, and if you have the old combustion chamber design or a newer one to determine the type needed for 91 octane.
Dude you didn't even mention the fact of the different circumstances when it comes to anodizing or non anodizing pistons when you fully anodizer piston it does make it harder however it does also make it subject to wear and under heat contracting and detracting of the anodized metals can cause cracking which can annihilate and inevitably lead to engine failure. I was a roadkill fan for a long time. But this was a poor explanation of the actual product and how it performs.
I wouldn't bother posting this thread if I was the product manager if it would lead to unfortunate blind faith in a product unexpectedly failing because there hero or fan were poorly promoting a product that destroyed their dream car they may have been working on for over a decade.
Too neglect that fact and to risk crushing a person's spirit like that due to your own fragrant attitude........
Poor form..... do better
Very interesting
If I send in a piston mold what would it cost me to get a set of 6 for a Jeep 4.0L
Great video, should I use a cast or forged piston for my Honda k20z4 engine? Building a naturally aspirated with 12.5:1 compression, is 12.5:1 compression not too high for pump fuel?
Too high. Stick to 12 maxon pump gas
Cast is for stock type motors.
The method that can be used on cylinder wall.
(Wall)metal, ceramic, lubricant, metal(piston)
Plumbing - metal to plastic, plastic to metal (not always metal to metal or plastic to plastic)
Freiburger? (Fries and burgers?) can I change my last name? Because this is the one to have.
If you want to wait 6 months to a year for pistons yep go with JE
I have heard that Carillo is much better at getting thing done quickly. Harrys Garage needed to rebuild a Lamborghini Espada and custom pistons were the only way to do the job. They shipped their existing 82.2mm pistons, told them they needed a custom 82.5mm replacement, the dome and valve reliefs had to match, and in less than 3 weeks they had perfect replacements. They had to ship their old 82.2mm pistons from the UK to the USA, so I am sure that added a significant amount of time to that, so Carillilo might be even quicker.
I came here because the thumbnail looked like Freiburger. And so it is.
What coating do you recommend for alusil engines?
can you coat items as a 49cc piston ?
Don't see y not
My JE has been rattling a bit on start up. Going to look into it.
I have a couple Top Fuel pistons that I got from drivers after events
a whole piston nickel plated would be cool.
Some diesel pistons are STEEL because of the abuse they take.
How bad is to bad to reuse
Won’t work on rings ? DLC
I would like to know about Formula 1 pistons and are they doing anything different than the rest of the world.
F1 piston use different materials in the alloy than off the shelf one's. The skirts are coated with zylon. This reduces friction and helps transfer heat better. The piston clearances are tighter and as low as 1 thou piston to wall clearance. Piston rings being 1mm PVD coated piston rings reducing even more friction is used. Piston top has a ceramic coating on them. Cylinder wall is made with secret type of material also coating that is on it I couldn't find out what they use or how they produce all the liners used. They are very hard to get information about certain aspects of the materials used for a engine for reasons I did realise. I had to move to asking other questions that could be answered as it was getting some stern words to move onto another one. The weight of the piston I found surprised me at 90g. 16mm pin made of a strong steel he never went into but he told me it had a PVD coating of Titanium Nickel in the surface. Rods are also Titanium and not very long and design is like a X and weigh 120g each. The way it attaches to crankshaft is clever design I noticed but asking what is used to join it he said I can't show you what is used in the attaching onto the crankshaft. Which had a very short stroke but also couldn't say what it is. But I estimate about 40mm to 50mm of stroke looking at it. Very light and small journal's that you would think would handle revving to over 6000rpm and more with Turbo boost technology aswell. My Mrs worked at Mercedes in Brackley near Silverstone in the UK and managed to get me in for a tour due to being known due to building engines for a living and getting reputation for high specced one's that have great results. The engine tech never new I did it for a living until I asked certain aspects of the technology in engines only very few people would no. When he said to me how I new so much about engine technology I had to tell him what I do as a living and I thought you knew about it because the Mrs spoke about what I do for work but she never spoke about me just said I was interested in engines. I was in engine unit for nearly 2hrs asking questions and looking at schematics of some components. And before going into the unit I had to wear a painters suit hair net and gloves to enter. Clean room was like a theatre of a hospital with tools that cost nearly a million in fancy drawers on one side and when a tool was taken out it was registered it was out with the time and person who had taken it out, it was on a big screen the information about the person who is using it, all with barcodes that is on tools and a card the person has to use to open the draws before getting any tool. Asking how much was the torque wrench on the bench for curiosity he said it cost over £2000 and that's the small one the biggest one was near the £5000 mark. He laughed when I swore when I said fuck me I only paid £120 for my one. My day was interesting to say the least but learned quite a bit about F1 V6 1.6 engine they have and how it makes over 600bhp from this tiny engine. Hope you now have a better understanding of the F1 components used in the engines? Sorry if I've gone on to long with what I've written. Lol. Just realised what time it is. D'oh.
@@tazgrant4521 Very Good! I mess around with Domestic Chevy V8's LS engines and have worked on everything up to 632cu.in. Alcohol engines. And it doesn't matter what Motorsport you are into, F1, Australian SuperCar, MotoGP, Some principal will never change when it comes to making Horse power. Thank you for sharing your story.
Elsewhere on youtube is a video of a Honda V10 that runs 20,000 rpm's. I guess that's for some sort of Formula 1 style racing. I'm wondering what those pistons are made of for that V10
@@tazgrant4521 I have heard that in some racing leagues, some people have successfully developed .7mm compression rings. Total Seal builds them and you can buy them and you don't have to be a race engine builder to buy them. Also, some racing rings have a ceramic coating for high durability and low friction, and I have heard the formula is a closely guarded secret.
1mm compression rings used to be for auto racing only, but I think some street driven gasoline engines can now use them and go for ages. Some also use those special coatings. They have even made their way into boosted engines. Obviously they aren't making such extreme horsepower out of such tiny engines, but they also aren't building engines to last a very limited distance.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ get ready to use all your money!
thickness of coatings would be helpful
I think you can choose the thickness. Here for example
www.line2linecoatings.com/armorCC.html
What are je pistons usually rated for hp wise?
The last piston about100,000 million HP give or take a few. The last piston cost more than a tesla battery half full.
249. Cc piston available?
I think Wiseco specializes in powersports pistons of nearly any size. They have some off the shelf and can make some custom. Here they mention a few engines of that size
www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/DirtBike.aspx
Most of them have coated skirts, but I don't think coated domes are an option. However, you could pay another company add the coating.
@@skylinefever thanks
You can skip the vid and I'll explain it in 1 sentence for you: basically a piston coating provides a decrease in heat generation, less friction inside the cylinder and yes it is always worth it to have a coated piston or even better to have a coated piston and coated cylinder walls.
Wrong
Is there a heat issue with powder coating?
yes, it will melt and destroy your engine
I have a Jeep trackhawk with a 118mm precision turbo giving me about 2000 hp my pistons keep breaking which one do you recommend?!!
Piston rings with gap not correctly done especially in charged engines can break the landings of the piston due to expansion being increased with higher temps. Rings need bigger gap so they don't butt ends with piston expansion of higher temps. Diamond, J.E. C.P. and Supertech are top quality manufacturer name's of pistons. C.P. are the one's i tend to get if available. Coating the crown of a piston helps in turbo applications better.
Is there a DLC coated piston?
I have not heard of a DLC coated piston, but the Nissan MR16DE has DLC coated piston rings.
It’s pronounced “ilekˈtrɑləsɪs” , not electrolis