My Tractor Should Be Able to Do This... Why Can't It?
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- can you move you tractor with the backhoe boom. Problem with John Deere 2038R with a 270 Backhoe
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Hey Brock. I love the demonstration. I don’t have a backhoe on my tractor, but just from hearing you talk about it, I would rather not put a machine under so much pressure even if it takes a little longer to get the job done great video. Keep up the good work.
My 3 series with the 370B backhoe allows me to reposition the tractor as you're doing, no need for it to be higher than necessary or it gets sketchy quick. Makes digging trenches or pits much more efficient if you can use the technique. The way the cylinders are oriented make the strong direction useful for digging which makes it weaker for pushing away in the opposite direction.
Nice detailed video. One thing I would like to mention...personally, I would not try to move anything when the rear wheels are off the ground. Every fiber of my being tells me that this will get you hurt or killed. Thanks, Brock!
My tractor would lift my tractor much higher than you showed. My tractor is a cab with loaded tires. At the end of the day. It’s a back hoe. There are things that a backhoe is not good at. I actually sold my backhoe last fall and bought a mini excavator. When you’re digging a hole with a backhoe are you I. That big off a hurry? I have tried to move my tractor like you showed and at the end off the day it’s just easier to get out and move it. I have had my wife help me move the tractor when I and doing something that I need to move frequently. Great video.
The outriggers will pick the machine up off the ground use the boom to hold it in the air while you lift outriggers, then move it to the side. As far as the pushing it backwards it probably does have a lot to do with all the weight added to the machine. Thanks for the daily videos.
Thanks
I run a JD 410B at work. It will effortlessly do all the things you were trying to do. And the swivel seat saves a lot of time too!
Hey Brock I have a Kioti CK3510Se. I’ve had people tell me the same thing about my backhoe. My feeling is exactly as you stated, I’m not going to tear up my equipment to save a small amount of time. If I’m digging a long trench I can always get someone to sit on the tractor seat and have them pull forward as needed.
This is a great instructional video for those (and for links to show future "those") who are new to all these concepts on these types of tractors/machines. Other models with stronger backhoe set ups might be able to do it, surely the folks here would know you'd be doing it if it was possible........haha or NOW they'll know.
This is what the channel you've built to >100K subs is for, great honest and humble approach as ALWAYS!
It's worth noting that these machines are not engineered to be actual "Tractor-Loader-Backhoe" (TLB) combos, they provide the functionality in many effective ways but absolutely not in many efficient ways. 💯🙏
StumpBoss Bill
I have observed operators "walk" a backhoe both forward and backward using the front bucket, rear bucket and the stabilizers. It was always in soft ground when the tires did not have any traction. The operators I observed made "walking" a backhoe seem natural. They made recoveries of stuck vehicles with hydraulics only, without using their tires. The operator never got his boots muddy. The vehicle owner had to hook up the chain.
My brother has a new holland bomer 35, and he pushes his back with the backhoe pretty easily., but I don't know if his has all the added weight, most likely fluid filled tires, but not wheel weights. Good information video.
I’m with you Brock. I get off of my backhoe and move my tractor. I just don’t feel safe trying to move the tractor with the backhoe. To me it’s not worth the risk of an accident.
Good video! My first thought is to tie a tie to your forward lever and have it come back into the backhoe operator’s platform. With everything up, push the stick forward from the backhoe seat. Seems plausible; perhaps dangerous, but I have not tried this with anything. I have used a Kubota L35 TLB and moved it forward, backwards, and side to side with the backhoe but that is a compact commercial-type machine.
Brock, Great video. I would say rolling the tractor forward or backwards as long as the machine is in neutral its totally fine if it had the power to do it. The side to side I would definitely not too much strain on that attachment. It would be different if it was a full flege Backhoe machine. Those are built alot stronger than an attachment.
Howdy Brock! Just a gut feeling, but I'm thinking 3/4 ton of extra weight makes it unlikely to work. Nothing to back that up... just spit balling. Thanks for sharing 🤠
I have a 2025R no weights or filled tires. I have no problem pushing mine forward or backward with the backhoe and can move side to side. I can even push uphill with the backhoe.
I’d say that’s only safe on perfectly flat ground. I’ve got a 2038R with backhoe and had to upgrade the hydraulic ram after curling it on a tree root. Not sure what the next most expensive sacrificial part may be yet but the cheaply made stock hoses are definitely protecting the stock hydraulics after blowing most of the stock rated hoses.
I agree with you. All the weight has a lot to do with it. Question, have you checked the pressures in your hydraulic system? You could be several hundred pounds low. It doesn’t take much pressure to make a lot of performance difference. Just above idle and higher rpm have no effect on pressure,that is flow. There are precision washers you can buy at your dealer to put in the tractor if the pressure is below specs. In a Kubota, the pressure regulator is left side looking at the rear. Best wishes, Kevin
I enjoyed the video, even though I don’t have and won’t be getting a backhoe. Interesting and entertaining.
Thanks
We have a bx23s it has no problem rolling forward or backwards. There is a certain way you have to do it to push it forward or it don't work.The side to side really isn't a problem but with the really narrower bx23s it feels really tipsy moving side to side. I only move it side to side when i just need a little wide or backed into a tight spot.
My 1025r will move left and right and push and pull. But I don’t have cab or extra weight and took half the rops off so it’s pretty light.
The manufacturer probably doesnt recommend doing this jump turn thing with your machine. Especially with an additional 1500 pounds + operator. If you want to work faster, you need an excavator.
I have a woods BH80, 3 point back hoe that I connect to my MF 2607H 4x4 tractor. I am like you. It digs really well but it doesn't move my tractor around. I wouldn't want to be without that tool but I hope one day soon I will be able to buy a mini excavator and get rid of the 3 point rig. Climbing on and off the backhoe and tractor, wears my back and knees out. Yeah, I'm old.
I've got a Kubota MX5200 with a BH92 and loaded tires. I've never had the need or desire to try to move side to side with the backhoe, and I dont think I would want to do that. However, I do use the backhoe to roll the tractor forward all the time if I'm on reasonably level ground. I can reach around to raise/lower the loader, and I use a combination of uncurling the bucket and extending the stick to push the tractor. Also, the boom has more than enough power to lift the back of the tractor. Yours probably would as well if you didn't have the wheel weights, cab, and loaded tires.
wow, great experiment - very interesting. My Mahindra '03 4110 with frame mounted backhoe, has no trouble lifting or moving the tractor. I have only really used it to "push" when trenching, I don't like the in-stability of "lifting and moving sideways" with the backhoe. Is that a 3-point backhoe? perhaps that limits hydraulic pressure, and the extra weight also could be responsible. I would continue to do it how you have done it. I have had family drive the tractor to make it easier as well!
Hey Brock, Who cares what other people think just do what ever works for you! I have the same 2038R with the 270 backhoe, no cab or wheel weights, just foam filled tires which add about 400 pounds of weight to the rear. I can lift the back tires and move side to side or forward and backwards with no problem. But I suspect that you definitely have more weight on your tractor. God bless and say high to your dad for me
A few things, at the beginning of the video it seemed that when you lifted the back tires up the loader arms dug into the dirt. Also the front tires were not straight so that would add some resistance as well.
Good morning Brock. I'm going to give my couple of cents here. I've mentioned before that I have a 2007 John Deere 2305. It has the 260 backhoe on it and i don't have any trouble lifting it with the backhoe. But I don't have wheel weights, cab, or loaded tires. I'm no tractor expert by any means but I believe that the extra weight is the problem. That being said, I also believe that there is a time and a place for everything. If you're on a hillside and stability is a problem that is not the time and place to do it. If a person is uncomfortable doing it because of inexperience or training that is not the time or place. There are times when I have done it with no issues and there are times when I should have known better but it comes down to what is best for each person. Just an old man's opinion but like I said I think that the extra weight (not yours) because I go 255#. 😁 on the tractor is the problem. I do get a little ling winded but what I'm saying is, do what's best for Brock. God bless and have a wonderful day. 👍👍🙂
Hey Brock I love your videos and can’t wait to get up on Saturday mornings and drink my coffee and watch your videos but watching you dig pains me. I’ve been an equipment operator for over 30 years something’s can’t be taught by comments on UA-cam. Again love your videos.
Even if a guy finds a way to move it with the dipper all you will end up with is pins and bushings failing prematurely.The dipper is made to dig swing and dump,another thing i have seen first hand and almost lost my head cylinders bending and breaking.Try being six feet down in a hole and have someone moving the machine that way and dipper cylinder break in front of you believe me i dont remember touching the ground when i shot out of that rocky hole,its real rocky around girard.
I didn’t know you lived near me
@RockhillfarmYT A guy I used to work for did installs and fixed leaks for the rural water,now farlington that is nothing but rock. No I live in missouri,still maybe an hour and half from you.
@@terrymiler2164 I grew up in Missouri. About an hour from Springfield.
@RockhillfarmYT I have lived in Vernon County my whole life,except for 5 years I lived in Marion County Kansas during my first marriage,25 years ago.
BROCK you have too much respect for your machinery to move your rig that way so keep doing it YOUR WAY and you will have your machine LONG after those Cowboys
Keep on showing the RIGHT WAY
I have an LS MT235 with an LB1100 backhoe & LL3302 loader. My backhoe will absolutely drag my tractor, I’ve done it on accident, but would never do it intentionally. The backhoe is not designed to do that and you risk damaging the unit.
Your right the added weight makes it impractical
You are doing it right. The power difference is due to whether you are retracting or extending a hydraulic cylinder. When you extend you have all the face of the piston to develop force. When you retract a cylinder you have essentially only a small doughnut to develop force on. Short explanation: If you have a 2 inch cylinder with a 1 inch rod what you have is the full face of the 2 inch cylinder to develop force on. On the retract movement take the 2 inch face and subtract the 1 inch rod which leaves on;y about a 1/2 inch doughnut ring to put hydraulic fluid on to develop force with. I have done the math and the push force @ 1500 psi on a 2 inch cylinder with 1 inch rod is 4710 lbs and retract force is 3232.5 lbs. Depending on whether you are pushing or pulling means a big difference. Then you have to add or subtract length of the arm or lever the cylinder is attached to. Now your math gets way more complicated. I say as long as it works and doesn't damage the equipment, which gets very expensive very quickly, keep doing what you are doing and let the whiners whine.
Yeah, if you were closer to stock weight youd prolly be ok. Also, hydraulic cylinders have more power when extending vs retracting. They have more surface area to press against and generate more force. That is why you can easily pull the tractor, but not push it.
If it were mine I would look into shimming the relief valve to get another ~200psi or just enough to make it more maneuverable. I know some people are not into that, but it is a possible solution.
Yup. The design of this tractor with this backhoe isn’t feasible for those movements. It’s a tractor. Those functions are just out of the design functionality for this equipment. Good video.
When sliding the backend make sure your bucket/tines are off the ground. You watch your video. The backhoe is fighting with the loader to side over. I can side over lots with my 1025r as long as the FEL is up off the ground. And for pushing your self ahead with the backhoe there is a sweet spot. Do not have the backhoe arm curled too much.
I’m mentioned at the beginning that I was lifting the loader up in the air
Hi,
Just watching your video re using your backhoe to move your tractor sideways; do you happen to know if that is putting a great deal of pressure through your front axle, or am I misinterpreting what I'm seeing?
I think what people are saying you have to swing the boom from 2:00 o'clock to 10:00 o'clock or vice versa. Looked like you were going from the boom straight out at 12:00, losing half the arc. Maybe they're using a Case 580 type loader backhoe. I agree with you, not worth it 😊
How much weight are you trying to move with loaded tires and wheel weights
It seems like the 270B backhoe is a really odd pairing with the larger 2 series machines. The 260B is suited for the 1 series, and the 375A is well suited for the 3 series. The 270B just seems to be underpowered unfortunately.
I really like the size of the larger 2 series machines, but the lack of ground clearance and issues like this are why I went bigger.
Much harder on the equipment!
This just looks like a good way to beat up a really expensive piece of equipment. It's not a trackhoe, so it's not meant to do trackhoe things.
Maybe if you didn't have the filled rear tires and wheel weights, it would work better?
Maybe people are asking you to do something which really isn’t safe. Keep your loader down and keep your supports down so that you are safe and can keep making videos.
I know this is not what the video is about but I rented a small mini excavator to dig a 1500 foot waterline and I got about 10 feet an hour. It was so weak. I ended up renting a trencher from Home Depot and completed the line in a night.
Be curious as to the make and model of what you're calling a small mini-ex. Like one of those 1 ton Chinese units?
Every time I’ve rented one it was a 3-5 ton and they were great for what I was doing
Never tried one of those little tiny ones
It was a Takeuchi that I rented from my local Rsc Rental. Not one of the small Chinese units, but it was not huge. I believe I have one picture of it, that I will post on your Facebook page Brock. I know it struggled mightily to dig in hard ground. The small walk behind trencher smoked it and left a much smaller area to clean up afterwards.
Do you have a subframe under your tractor to help mount the backhoe ?
Yeah
22 I was taking my daughter to school because she missed the bus
I myself would not try to turn the tractor with the backhoe. To expensive to fix. You could be exerting more than 5,000 psi on your hydraulics (See Neil Messick's test on over pressurizing your hydraulics by doing things just like that. Blown seals in your hydraulic system won't be fun to repair.
My tym474 has the power to push my tractor I just don't feel good about doing it all the time
If your wheels on front were straight would help some.
Before starting, I made sure that the wheels were straight, and the loader was off the ground, but when I pivoted the rear of the tractor, it turned them a little bit
I’ve also tried the same thing many times before filming this video
I think it's plenty of justification for you to purchase a mini X!!
It's your equipment and your hours. I know when I find my equipment straining to do a job, I am at the limits of its capabilities. So a little more force from uneven ground, a tree root, or maybe I setup improperly (accidentally leave bucket in wrong position, leave it in gear etc.) that little extra force pushes the equipment past its limit and it breaks. Nah. I would find a way to do the job with less stress on the equipment a.k.a. get off and move it.
I have a 1025 r and I can’t do it either. It doesn’t matter to me.
I think your relief valve is set lower than mine. I have the same tractor and backhoe with loaded tires and my backhoe will move my tractor all over.
I’ve checked the pressure coming out of the loader valves and it’s right in the center of the recommended pressure.
The wheel weights and the cab at another thousand pounds, which is a lot when you’re talking about what the backhoe can and cannot lift
@@RockhillfarmYT i was told theres another releif in the backhoe controls panel
Something is not right, my little 1025 will lift the entire tractor and move me all over the place using my backhoe. I also have loaded tires and a full cab.
The backhoes are pretty similar, but my machine weighs 2000 extra pounds
First scenario is not the reason!
You need to connect a pressure gauge to check the line pressure on your swing motor on your backhoe !
I have a Kubota LX2610 / BH77 with oversized filled tires and backhoe moves and lifts tractor easily.
I'm betting your gonna figure it out. You've got good common sense.
I can move mine all day long, anyway i want from the backhoe seat. It's just a 1025. It helps that from the backhoe seat, I can reach the loader controls, throttle, and steering wheel.
buy a trackhoe.
I would buy a mini excavator
I mean of course it won't do anything at idle, also your wheels are turned lol
What point are you making. I did everything with the engine at full throttle.
@@RockhillfarmYT having your wheels turned created unnecessary resistance. I like most of your tutorials or trials but this one was pretty bad. But I am curious now that you've turned up your hydraulic pressure if it would perform differently.
@BenPasternak I think the wheels made a very minimal difference. I tried 20 times to roll it. The tractor is actually a little bit downhill. I could’ve rolled it by hand.
The reason the wheels didn’t matter to me is because I’ve tried this 100 times that weren’t videoed
The extra wear on your equipment is not worth it to me. Especially if you've got all the extra ballast that you should have on your tractor to keep it stable. Look at the size of the rams on your backhoe. It looks like the boom ram is smaller than the stick ram. If that's true then you'll have more power on the stick "pulling" than you will on the boom "pushing".
That's why I'm going to buy a stand alone excavator.
The comments saying you can do it are folks who probably havent tried themselves, or fully understand the safety implications. I'm with you Brock, get off every time and dont be lazy.
Ok demo BUT if you had already Dug a hole at the rest of your tractor this procedure would be Impossible and your way of moving the tractor is FAR SAFER
Agreed
It’s absolutely not worth moving your compact tractor with the backhoe. Especially moving side to side. That’s super dangerous. The backhoe is made to generate force digging. Not for pushing. The amount force and weight you’re placing on every pivot, pin and the risk of flipping it over are just not worth it. You also sacrifice digging power if your tractor is in N with the loader up and parking brake off. You’re not saving any time. Typical lazy shortcuts that sacrifice the machine and safety.
That is my conclusion as well, but a lot of people will disagree
Just because they disagree doesn’t make them right. I have moved mine in a straight line with the backhoe before. I didn’t like it. My cab 3R has turf tires it (best for snow removal) and they are very bouncy. I never liked the feeling of pushing the machine around with the backhoe. Every single dealer, of every make and model…recommends you not do that with compact machines.
I don’t believe that shortcuts in proper process and safety demonstrates “skill” with a piece of equipment. That’s all this is. A shortcut at the expense of machine lifespan and safety.
The people that do this don't own the equipment!