It's interesting to see how a va'a and a surfski have a "slippery" hard seat that facilitates hip movement while an OC has the high friction foam seat which would inhibit hip movement
I really like your teaching system through the demonstration of its effectiveness, you rationalize it and that convinces me to do it as you say. Thanks for sharing.
Trying to feel your hip turn into the stroke even if they don't physically move through space will help your shoulders rotate to make that connection. It's more thoracic demand when your hips are locked but the feeling of pulling your hips to the blade is still present!
I've been paddling surf ski for 25 years. After becoming a member of an outrigger club shortly after my first s.s. purchase, I eventually developed decent rotation in the OC-6. However, I consistently broke skin on my butt until strapping down a gardening, kneeling cushion. Even then I couldn't find comfort until wearing bicycling shorts underneath as well. Although I tried taping down 10 mil or greater plastic to good effect, it was too much of a hassle and came loose on occasion. I get positive feedback from coaches on my stroke but wonder if you have any ideas of what might be going wrong mechanically. Also there's good weight transferred downward on my paddle. I've stopped competing in the OC-6 partially because of this issue.
Shift your weight forward out of the seat onto your lead leg. If you keep your weight on your sit bones it's like using your butt to grind into the seat. Find a flow of moving your weight to the lead foot - minimal weight on the sit bones, then as you complete the stroke you're pushing your weight back to the seat. Rotating AND leaning forward/sitting up is what makes canoe tricky.
What are your thoughts about using a swivel or rotation seat to enable hip movement? Also, what clothing/seat interface reduces friction to allow better hip rotation? As an example, I see people with padded seats in a kayak, which feel more comfortable but would inhibit hip rotation. It would seem like a smooth seat with lycra would help rotation. What is your experience? What do kayak racers do to facilitate efficient and full hip rotation? Thanks.
Swivel seat accomplishes the same concepts as swiveling in a smooth seat with less moving parts/points of failure/more control of balance. I use normal swimtrunks but also have used neoprene/speedo style shorts. Padding inhibits rotation because of friction... but a totally smooth seat that it not masterfully ergonomic will hurt. Best middle ground is padding with a Teflon type material on top for the best of both worlds.
What racers to get full ROM is practice. Practice on land to understand what full hip motion even is. Then bring it to the unstable kayak environment. 90% of users use less rom than they potentially have due to stability.
Neoprene style pants with lower friction is an option. Adding foam to your seat pad so you sit higher will push your hips over the side edges as another option (like a hurricane oc1 has the seat over the hull)
Which vessel are you paddling Daniel? In the OC shifting weight off your sit bones and sitting up will give you some relief. In the surfski tilting forward and sitting more anterior will shift the weight onto the top of your hamstrings more and prevent that. Don't grind your butt to dust, rotate easily. If it feels hard it's because the leverages a little off.
@@K2NOPS Thanks a lot! I´ll try it! I´m paddling oc1 and oc6, mostly I get some bruises when going for a downwind session on my oc1, probably when sprinting to get on the bumps.
Sometimes these can become a bit confusing….when you watch Chalupsky’s training sessions, he insistS…do NOT go past vertical….! In this video they go way past that point…?
Applying power to vertical is most ideal, as the blade releases at the negative angle there shouldn't be much force on it. It will release behind you though. If you look up oscar on Google images there's plenty of photos of his blade exiting behind him... as with every other fast paddler on the planet at their exit phase.
Perhaps to be more clear Oscar means do not apply rear force past vertical. The paddle goes past vertical, but the force curve (which you can see graphically on recent kayak paddling research using force sensors in the paddle) rises quickly at the catch, stays mostly linear up to the last vertical, then drops off past vertical. It’s a three-dimensional visual problem but must be integrated with power application to understand just where the force is being applied. K2NOPS is doing a great job of communicating a very complex, integrated motion. FWIW, I think we’ll see more integration of force sensors in kayak paddles which will help with micro-timing. Coaching a complex movement (e.g., hitting a baseball, swimming strokes) requires different types of communication to get the athlete to perform the movement well. But ultimately, you need to practice a lot to get the feel, continue to get feedback so you minimize practicing bad habits, and use such technology as we have to improve. Or, just get out and paddle and enjoy yourself. Your choice. Again, very much appreciate how the technique is communicated here. 😊
i can't help but notice that when you talk about leg drive your one leg is under you like it would be in a 6 man...unfortunately in a OC1 this is not possible. This is why OC1 paddling is not really outrigger paddling it's much more like a kayak with a aama.
It's interesting to see how a va'a and a surfski have a "slippery" hard seat that facilitates hip movement while an OC has the high friction foam seat which would inhibit hip movement
I'm guessing since you sit on top of the boat rather than in it, the oc1 seat is meant to help you not slide off the side of the boat lol.
I really like your teaching system through the demonstration of its effectiveness, you rationalize it and that convinces me to do it as you say. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much. Lots of practice teaching on my end to be helpful.
EXCELLENT break down!
Mahalo!!! Excellent explanation especially of the importance of rotation
Check us out at K2NONLINEPADDLESCHOOL.COM!
200 full length videos detailing the stroke.
Is leg drive relevant when paddling a whitewater kayak? In those, you're strapped in so tightly that you can't really move your hips.
Trying to feel your hip turn into the stroke even if they don't physically move through space will help your shoulders rotate to make that connection. It's more thoracic demand when your hips are locked but the feeling of pulling your hips to the blade is still present!
I've been paddling surf ski for 25 years. After becoming a member of an outrigger club shortly after my first s.s. purchase, I eventually developed decent rotation in the OC-6. However, I consistently broke skin on my butt until strapping down a gardening, kneeling cushion. Even then I couldn't find comfort until wearing bicycling shorts underneath as well. Although I tried taping down 10 mil or greater plastic to good effect, it was too much of a hassle and came loose on occasion. I get positive feedback from coaches on my stroke but wonder if you have any ideas of what might be going wrong mechanically. Also there's good weight transferred downward on my paddle. I've stopped competing in the OC-6 partially because of this issue.
Shift your weight forward out of the seat onto your lead leg. If you keep your weight on your sit bones it's like using your butt to grind into the seat. Find a flow of moving your weight to the lead foot - minimal weight on the sit bones, then as you complete the stroke you're pushing your weight back to the seat.
Rotating AND leaning forward/sitting up is what makes canoe tricky.
Thank you! I'll copy this advice and keep it in mind. @@K2NOPS
What are your thoughts about using a swivel or rotation seat to enable hip movement? Also, what clothing/seat interface reduces friction to allow better hip rotation? As an example, I see people with padded seats in a kayak, which feel more comfortable but would inhibit hip rotation. It would seem like a smooth seat with lycra would help rotation. What is your experience? What do kayak racers do to facilitate efficient and full hip rotation? Thanks.
Swivel seat accomplishes the same concepts as swiveling in a smooth seat with less moving parts/points of failure/more control of balance.
I use normal swimtrunks but also have used neoprene/speedo style shorts.
Padding inhibits rotation because of friction... but a totally smooth seat that it not masterfully ergonomic will hurt. Best middle ground is padding with a Teflon type material on top for the best of both worlds.
What racers to get full ROM is practice. Practice on land to understand what full hip motion even is. Then bring it to the unstable kayak environment. 90% of users use less rom than they potentially have due to stability.
I have a hard time rotating my hips in my OC-1 because my hips are wide and movement is restricted by the sides of the seat. Any suggestions?
Neoprene style pants with lower friction is an option. Adding foam to your seat pad so you sit higher will push your hips over the side edges as another option (like a hurricane oc1 has the seat over the hull)
The weak spot is the butt skin...lol! Is there any tipos on how to conect the hips and not bruise the skin?
Which vessel are you paddling Daniel? In the OC shifting weight off your sit bones and sitting up will give you some relief. In the surfski tilting forward and sitting more anterior will shift the weight onto the top of your hamstrings more and prevent that. Don't grind your butt to dust, rotate easily. If it feels hard it's because the leverages a little off.
@@K2NOPS Thanks a lot! I´ll try it! I´m paddling oc1 and oc6, mostly I get some bruises when going for a downwind session on my oc1, probably when sprinting to get on the bumps.
Sometimes these can become a bit confusing….when you watch Chalupsky’s training sessions, he insistS…do NOT go past vertical….! In this video they go way past that point…?
Applying power to vertical is most ideal, as the blade releases at the negative angle there shouldn't be much force on it. It will release behind you though. If you look up oscar on Google images there's plenty of photos of his blade exiting behind him... as with every other fast paddler on the planet at their exit phase.
Perhaps to be more clear Oscar means do not apply rear force past vertical. The paddle goes past vertical, but the force curve (which you can see graphically on recent kayak paddling research using force sensors in the paddle) rises quickly at the catch, stays mostly linear up to the last vertical, then drops off past vertical. It’s a three-dimensional visual problem but must be integrated with power application to understand just where the force is being applied. K2NOPS is doing a great job of communicating a very complex, integrated motion. FWIW, I think we’ll see more integration of force sensors in kayak paddles which will help with micro-timing. Coaching a complex movement (e.g., hitting a baseball, swimming strokes) requires different types of communication to get the athlete to perform the movement well. But ultimately, you need to practice a lot to get the feel, continue to get feedback so you minimize practicing bad habits, and use such technology as we have to improve. Or, just get out and paddle and enjoy yourself. Your choice. Again, very much appreciate how the technique is communicated here. 😊
💚🏜️💚 SunGi
i can't help but notice that when you talk about leg drive your one leg is under you like it would be in a 6 man...unfortunately in a OC1 this is not possible. This is why OC1 paddling is not really outrigger paddling it's much more like a kayak with a aama.
@jamujas8480 Watch 3:06