This video takes an in depth look at carving and questions how much do our racers really carve, do we confuse arcing and carving and what is the difference.
Nice work on this. Probably the clearest breakdown of a racing turn that I’ve seen. A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on your distinction between arcing and carving, whining ‘they’re the same thing’, but I’m totally with you. To me there is a huge difference between slowly and staticly grinding your way around the whole turn. (Your ‘arcing’) vs Rolling your ski on edge and forcefully injecting power into the turn which shortens the radius and let’s you finish the turn early. You’re on and off the edge very quickly in real racing turns (Your ‘carving’)
What a fun game; just make stuff up. Grinding is what, exactly? And so now carving is where the racer shortens the radius of the turn rather abruptly, whereas arcing is a constant radius turn that involves "grinding". Grinding your teeth? Any other "definitions" you'd like to provide us? Not whining, mind you, just asking.
Thank you, It took me a long time to wrap my mind around this concept, so I get why so many do not understand it. It was only after I spent time with skiers at the world cup level and listened to how they perceived, and thought about what the ski was doing on the surface of the snow. Thanks for watching.
Well done coach for pointing this out. It really annoys me when people say/think that racers carve the whole way down a course when clearly they only carve during certain parts of the turn and then only briefly.
First off, no one ever said that racers carve the whole way down a run. There was always "float", there was always glide, there was always transition, there was always skidding, hopefully not too much and hopefully only on purpose. What you seem to be doing is redefining what it means to carve by distinguishing it from "arcing" which you say is carving that lacks pressure and maybe other skills. Not to say you are not free to redefine what it means to carve, but the implication is that the ski industry or population has been misusing or wrongly defining the term "to carve". It has not. Carving just means the edged ski tail follows the same groove that the tip has already cut, per sidecut radius. It's been like this since whenever you want to say the modern ski arrived on the scene. There's no requirement that "lots of pressue" or "it's only intermittent" be part of the mix. (Of course usually there is lots of pressure). Carving and arcing are - to me- pretty much synonymous. Your distinction adds what to the mix, exactly? Warren got it right 50 years ago.
Exactly Dap777754 - As mentioned in above comments, the goal of a racer is different than the goal(s) of free skiing. One is 'free' to create whatever 'arc' the skier prefers to suit the terrain and desired 'carved' turning radius.
@@brianoconnor3407 If I understand your point correctly, a free skier just arcs because he's under no real pressure to achieve a specific turn radius, while a racer carves because he has geographical constraints. I raced, and my free skiing turns largely mimic my racing turns. And the skiis themselves don't know the difference 'cause to them whether I'm running gates or free skiing, it's all the same to them. So respectfully, I reject the idea that ski mechanics and ski functionality depends on the skier's subjective intent. I repeat my contention that carving and arcing are synonomous. Arcing iseems to be what Warren Witherall used to call "railroad tracks." If the Coach wants to distinguish one from the other based on technical difficulty, that's fine. But the ski is doing the exact same thing in either context. Thanks.
Sasha Rearick calls it 'Impulse'. Coach Warman uses the image of 'Bouncing from trampoline to trampoline down the hiil'...each trampoline 'Hit' is an 'Impulse'. 'Arcing' is a more casual, 'park and ride' dynamic.
Great video, coach. Been trying to get this message across to people for many years. The only way you can take that direct of a line when dealing with significant offset is to redirect the skis during the transition. Your pointing out of the use of pelvic anticipation is now that redirection (pivot) is powered. There's more to world class race turns than arc to arc.
Spot on Rick. Just stumbled onto this great channel on my feed and the coach nails it here in this video. I remember when you pointed me to this kind of turn entry that the retraction transition makes possible. Thanks. What puzzles me is the use of FIS exclusive TV footage and world class music! But I dont complain, top lesson. T
When I saw your name Rick I had to go and look at my two DVD’s I bought from you, called the Building Blocks. Basic balance and basic edging!! You have the same last name. I’ll be damn 😊
@@fourftr , hello! Yep, same Rick Schnellmann, hope you've enjoyed the training in those DVDs. The type of turn transition discussed in this UA-cam video is contained in my "Transitions" DVD, which comes later in the Building Blocks series. Happy turns my friend!
@@Triggerboy62 , Hi Tom! Been some years now, hasn't it. I'm so impressed with the work you've done with your UA-cam channel since then, all the lessons and valuable technical information you've shared with so many enthusiastic to learn skiers. 👍
@@rickschnellmann2316 It's interesting that you say that because with my 54 years of teaching experience I have never heard or seen him teaching skiing anywhere near correctly.
This is an excellent video -- thank you! Love the trampoline analogy and have felt that on very steep slopes free skiing but am excited to try it in a slalom course.
Yes, brief intense carve loads outside ski to max and then 'pops' off snow through transition (fun part!). Always felt pelvis follows shoulders (upper body triangle) initiating transfer to new outside ski. Killy did this alot in Joubert's book 'Ski the New French Way' (1967) and it was termed 'anticipation'. Great video - Kudos!
I saw the same thing when I read that book too. There are a couple of examples of Patrick Russel as well. The book really emphasized down unweighting and anticipation. I think the equipment limitations of narrow fiberglass or metal skis, with the start of plastic boots limited what could be done. Had Killy or Russel had modern equipment, they would had made turns like Shiffrin or Herschel do.
A long time ago, somewhere in 1987, with the help of "jumping" technique, I managed to break into the top 20 at the USSR Championship, starting in 140 numbers. Carving skis only enhance the possibilities of such jumps, but this technique itself is quite old - although no one taught me about it, but I think it was used long before me.
Great info and insight, Sean! I love the trampoline idea. I talk about this in bumps a lot. Each bump is a mini tramp! For a nice surprise--use the thighs! That's what I coach.
Btw carving phases she seems to be 'gliding' lightly to nxt turn. She seems to be best of all women in slalom in accelerating the speed from the pressure of carving turn. The results achieved confirm the effectiveness her flawless technique. 🌹
I can see that you mix up things. First of all, carving is when your ski edges carve the snow. You should be able to see the tracks of the ski edges as single lines. You have the start of the carved turn the turn itself and then the transition, when the ski pressures decrease. But if there is a single line track after a ski, then it is carving. This is what I think is the most correct understanding of what carving is.
Arcing is edge/pressure with zero steering/guiding the ski. Carving is/can include arcing in part of the turn (like shaping phase) but also has a component of steering/guiding the skis where tail follows tip (like initiation/completion phase) but is not skidding where arc of tail is larger than arc of tip and skis are moving more laterally across the snow surface (skidding) compared to arc of turn. Slipping is where the skis are moving perpendicular to the path of travel. Check alpine tech manual for glossary of terms.
Modern parabolic or carve skis allow the skier to carve with virtually no edge pressure as the shape of the ski comes almost pre flexed so an intermediate can carve with very little technique. With racing skis, FIS rules mean that sidecuts for GS and slalom skis now have a turn radius of more than 30 metres when recreational skis may have a turn radius of less than 15 metres, so modern GS racers will often have to skid the skis to iniate the turn.
@johnmcalester5165 SkiDadTV had a recent video comparing a "roll 'em up/arc to arc" WC skier to a fellow WC competitor who used stivots and other maneuvers to adjust his line (in GS) along with "clean completions" to achieve a superior run. Tied to/ generated some discussion about the large radius GS skis currently req'd by FIS. Good video by SkiDadTV here: What Matters the Most on the World Cup? Ski Dad Breaks down the Val D'Isère GS 2023 m.ua-cam.com/video/TbVumV8KY5s/v-deo.html
Discussion about large radius GS skis...like this comment: "@keirfarnum6811 It’s almost kind of sad. I’m guessing if FIS allowed tighter radius sidecuts, we could have cleaner skiing with a more completely carved turn in phase 1 of turns after the transition. Keeping sidecuts so long almost forces the skiing to be scrappy and messy and takes away from the beauty of great skiing. I still don’t know how Ted(Ligety) was able to do what he did, but I miss that style of skiing."
What I am seeing is that the skis are on edge earlier in the turn and there is less sideways motion that causes slowing and loss of the edge's hold on its line (skidding). Whatever you call this early phase of the turn, early edging makes the change in direction less abrupt and reduces skidding, enabling the skis to hold more speed through the bottom of the turn.
Very informative. My one and only day of slalom skiing happened in my mid-50s (over 10 years ago). I was (and still am) overweight and skied only a few times a year. I was with a group of mostly young guys and a few older, very expert skiers. It was in spring at Winter Park and the snow conditions were pure ice because it had been warm, then had turned cold. Unlike most of the other Colorado people in the group, I grew up skiing in New England, where ice was par for the course. Because the regular runs were so horrible, we all decided to try a NASTAR run just above the restaurant where we had stopped for lunch and beers. You paid $5 and got to make three runs down a slalom course pitted against one other skier. After the first two runs against my son, I realized that my times were pretty good. So, I challenged the best skier in our group, a guy I worked with who lives for skiing. I had skied with him before and could never keep up. The slalom run was laid out with a flat section at top, then a series of gates down a steep pitch, with a horrible very sharp last gate before the timer at the bottom. Everyone kind of held back a couple of gates before the last gate to insure you could make the turn and not crash. Oddly, the one thing that helped motivate me was also the thing that should have guaranteed I would lose. I dropped a pole coming out of the start gate, and had to nearly stop to get it back into my hand and looped on my wrist - there was no way to recover that lost speed on the flat. But, in order to minimize further embarassment and at least make somewhat of a race out of it, I decidedto just go for it with my skis aimed straight downhill when I dropped into the steep part. AND, I remembered a couple of things from watching those World Cup skiers on TV. 1) Initiate the turn just above the gate and 2) shift your weight off of the outside ski as quickly as possible to end the turn, then aim those skis downhill again. I also decided to take each gate one at a time, without thinking about that nasty turn at the bottom. I also realized that, when it comes to speed, ice is your friend. The result was that I shot by my expert friend about 1/2 way down and never looked back. I beat him by over 1.5 seconds and ended up with the fastest time on the course for that entire day. Not bad for an old, overweight guy who had never raced before. I guess growing up skiing on ice gave me an advantage over those pampered Colorado powder skiers. In watching your video I realized that, somehow, without ever having skied a slalom course, I had absorbed some of the critical techniques that you are teaching, just from watching ski racing on TV. Pretty amazing and totally unexpected. AND not to be repeated ever again. Quit while on top they say. I am now 68 and a recent heart attack prevented me from skiing this winter. But I aim to be back on the slopes at least a few times next winter. Anyway, thanks for your informative video. P.S. My wife and I wrote two books on the history of skiing in Colorado which might interest you or some of your viewers. www.lostskiareasofcolorado.com/
Interesting interpretation. I prefer the explanation of Harald Harb. To my eye there is no falling down the hill. It’s an illusion. The pelvis is stable. Just look from 11:15-25. I think Harb has it right. The key movement between turns is the shortening of the old outside leg by flexing the knee, dorsiflexing and pulling what becomes the new inside foot back, enabling the edge of the new outside ski to carve from the top of the C into the fall line, before the next transition, retraction, across the fall line.
I agree, that is what happens in some slalom and GS turns but not in the offset slalom gates shown here. The technique involved has to suit the course, terrain, and snow conditions.
"To my eye there is no falling down the hill. It’s an illusion." You think it is an illusion that you go Down the hill from the top to the bottom? You are in a constant state of falling down the hill. What creates the leg angle change to start a new turn is you are falling down the hill while your skis are finishing a turn into a traverse. 5:34 This is it! "I think Harb has it right. The key movement between turns is the shortening of the old outside leg by flexing the knee," That is by no means the "Key"! If their upper body wasn't falling down the hill when they "Shortened the downhill leg", they would just continue a traverse across the hill balanced on the uphill edge of the uphill ski. It is the fall down the hill that creates the leg angle change which rolls the uphill ski over onto the inside edge that allows the ski to turn. In all the years I have been watching and listening to HH, he has never said or shown one thing correct. He doesn't Ski what he preaches. I once saw him try to ski with his downhill knee "Tipping" and all he did was trip and stumble down the hill. Then he transitioned into correct body movements, and he was back to skiing fine. He just can't "See" what he is actually doing and turn it into a correct teaching method. He is fixated on his feet and knees and not enough on his upper body and allowing the ski design to work.
For me, an important element is HOW you shorten the inside leg. If you just actively bend your new inside leg more, it does not work. You will lose edge angle similarity and get horizontal ski separation instead of vertical ski separation. You will take weight OFF the outside ski, and not increase outside ski edge angle. The way you do it is by carving the inside ski, very early in the turn, which is exactly what pulling the inside ski back / dorsiflexing to keep inside ski front pressure enables. Deb Amstrong also talks about this in one of here vids with a Jr. skier, where she talks about driving the inside knee to control turn radius. When you do this, you are not pulling your leg shorter, the ski is pushing it shorter. Having he ski shorten your leg by pushing up on your inside puts your body in the correct position to crank a high load turn. That is the way of thinking about things that has worked for me. The outside ski does the work, but the once you get to high angles (say 60 deg+) it is the inside ski that is the control level that allows you to crank out that last 20+ degrees of angle.
Good stuff, but the skier at 6:00 is spending just as much time carving as they are in the transitions, about 5 ski lengths each. Of course, those are more open gates than Mikaela was skiing earlier in the video. I'm happy if I can get my students to at least "arc," let alone carve, but most intermediates just don't have the leg stamina do do more than about 3 carving turns.
For a basic clarification of the terms: Gliding (on skis) is defined as a mode of locomotion in which the longitudinal axis of the ski is identical to the direction of locomotion (going straight, carving). On the other hand, sliding is described as a type of locomotion in which the longitudinal axis of the skis does not correspond to the direction of locomotion (sideways slipping). It follows that as soon as the skis move not only sideways but also forwards, there is a gliding and a sliding component. Drifting is defined as a turn with a sliding component. With the carved turn, the tail of the ski follows the tip of the ski and the ski only glides forward without sliding sideways. Due to the construction and the load, the edged carving ski bends. The waist shape of the ski allows a canted and loaded ski to lie with the edge in an arcuate line on the snow. In contrast to a drifted turn, the skis do not have to be actively turned when carving. In steeper terrain or with tighter turns, the skis must be set at an angle at the beginning of the turn by drifting (skidding, pivoting) that allows the turn to be finished along the sidecut of the ski (carving). The drifting turning of the skis then transitions into the gliding cutting of the inside edges. The expert masters the entire spectrum of turn control from sliding to curved sliding to cutting and is able to coordinate these elements appropriately according to the situation. (Source: current textbook of the Austrian Ski Instructors Association) Consequently, a railroad track turn is also a carved turn if it is performed properly from edge to edge and there is no lateral slipping component. The edging angle isn't big and the ski can't bend that much, but it's definitely a carved turn. A larger bending line requires a larger edging angle. And to be able to take this you need more inclination. The higher centrifugal forces required for this are created on the one hand by a higher speed in the turn and on the other hand, of course, due to the tighter curve due to the larger edging angle, higher centrifugal forces also arise. The fact that in slalom only a more or less small part of the turn is carved is actually a platitude. And in giant slalom it becomes even more obvious that completely cleanly carved turns are only rarely possible. "Whoever is able to complete the carved part of the turn with the shortest possible pressure phase is the fastest." (Statement by a ski instructor colleague, former Forerunner in the World Cup)
I often talk about semantics, and it is easy into dark tunnel when we start trying to define terms. Having worked programs and resorts across the planet and with coaches and instructors from every walk of life, there are many terms with various meanings. None of them are wrong, its there term, there perspective. Whats critical, is that the athlete, student, coach, etc you are working with understands the term in the same manor you do.
@@1spwarman Hello Sean, I really appreciate your clips and have already saved quite a few. However, why railroad track turns should not be carved in your eyes is not entirely clear to me. Of course, these don't have exactly the same movement pattern as a SL or GS turn performed at competition level, but that's not decisive for whether it's carving or not. Finally, you can even carry out a snow plow in a carved version. But if you are of the opinion that there is an important and good reason for this, then I would be very interested in it. Then the question arises, what is an arced turn. For me, that was always the part of the turn that is cleanly cut on the edge and therefore leaves a trace in the snow in the form of a narrow, curved line. As soon as there is a significant lateral slip component (I'm not talking about a few millimeters), it's no longer carving. The entire turn can therefore be carved over almost its full length (of course not during the transition) or consist of cleanly carved as well as slipped or even "flown" (without ground contact) parts. In the second case I would only call the carved part arced, in the first case the entire turn. Of course you can develop your own nomenclature in your direct sphere of influence and use modified terms or even reinterpret them, and trainers and athletes will of course still understand each other very well. However, something like this can quickly lead to a kind of tribalization and the formation of sects. I find it more helpful if everyone speaks the same language and makes the most precise delimitations possible for the terms he uses and if possible sticks to the type of usage that is used in the majority of the user sphere. But of course something should also be changed if there are good and important reasons for doing so.
I have a question - as arcing is rolling the ankles which is what I do, what I thought was carving, does carving then not involve rolling the ankles? If not, then what is involved to carving turns? Another question - when one gets the hand to the ground in the turn, what is involved there specifically?
If you put a ski on its edge and turn with no sideways skidding of the ski, then you are carving. If you drop your hip to start the turn then your ankles will automatically "roll".
if i understand this correctly, carving is driving the turn radius tighter than the sidecut. and arcing turns is riding the edges (railroading) the sidecut radius turns.
I will share my perspective, and its only that. rolling the ankles is an element of all good skiing. Powder, racing, carving, etc. Its a movement that sets up the rest of the base of support. All the movements in effective skiing are present in all conditions. We adjust the intensity and timing of these movements to change the outcome or objective. Us mortals skid because we need to bleed off speed and not scare $h!t out of ourselves. Ski racers skid for various reasons such as adjust line, but ultimately for them its skid in carve out. As far as the hand on the snow, that is a result of getting our body inside the turn and the hand ends up working as a very slight balance aid. I have herd world cup guys talk about modulation with their hand. For them, they need to get that far into it to get the ski on high edge which allows them to bend the ski more and increase pressure.
@@CoachWarman " rolling the ankles is an element of all good skiing." I think you need to talk to an orthopedic surgeon about your method because ankles don't roll to the inside and knees don't bend to the side so How is it that you can say that rolling your ankles is important? Also, not one word of your comment taught how to do any of what you said. "Coach?" Really?
Pffff, "putting a carving ski on edge is not carving the ski. It's only when more pressure is used it is called carving." Soo...how much pressure exactly? Does that mean kids cannot carve and 150 KG adults carve all the time because of the higher pressure?
you just need enough pressure to bend the ski past it's listed radius. anybody of any weight can do it on the right skis- that's why kid's skis are easier to flex than wc skis
@@bmbdan1005 That is not the point. This guy says a ski is not carving when there is not a boatload of pressure. While in fact a ski is already carving if you just run it on it's side, no matter the pressure. It was a rhetorical question to the poster of this video.
@@davesmulders3931 if a ski is just on its side it's only railing. its just a difference in technical definition but otherwise it's pretty much the same thing
@@bmbdan1005 if a ski is on its side is not only railing, it is carving. Without pressure you carve the radius the ski is marked for. With pressure you only change the radius of the carve
For a reacreational skier, with leg muscles that have a hard time keeping up with a week of 6 hours a day skiing - any trick to improve on muscle “efficiency” would be welcome.. Maybee the question is a little out of scope - since speed controle (reducing speed) is more important. Running on 17” swingradius ski. I think I am rooling my knees from side to side and arching for the full swing, thus creating “a lot of acid” in the legs. Would short burst of carve possible be less of an energy drain - or is it only a tecnique for the fit athlete? Is skidding in general the best way of killing speed, with least muscle effort?
The short burst of carve are very demanding on the legs. The load is intense. I would not consider this an approach for someone who is trying to conserve energy. Skidding is an effecent method to kill spead, as is bringing the ski tips across the hill. Good luck.
The hips ... in general, face the direction of travel or the next gate. This statement is an over simplification, but for sure the shoulders do not rotate up the hill. Ever.
Arcing...carving...same thing...sorry. As described in this video, a "carve" is just a much more highly loaded arc. This might be a very useful distinction for coaching purposes, but it is not valid for describing how the ski is actually working. This is because the body position and technique to really load up the ski (carve....60 deg+ edge angles) is very different from a moderately loaded carve/arc. So creating a distinction may be useful for instruction. But a modern ski operates in two modes. 1. It is tracking (carve, arc, etc) along the edge and the edge a foot in front of your toes and edge a foot in back of your heel is passing over the same point in the edge track -or- 2. It is not tracking (brushed/skidded/stivoted turn) and the point your edge a foot in front of your toes passes over is up the hill by the time the edge a foot behind your heel gets to it. There is no functional difference in HOW THE SKI IS ACTUALLY working from an "arc" to a "carve"....the ski is tracking along the edge. As for Ted, what he did was SHORTEN HIS TRANSITION so that he could link together larger radius turns, as dictated by the 35m skis. This allowed him to put less load on his legs for a given speed down a course. Or, for the same load, he cold be going faster. You have to draw out the geometry to really understand it...but using a SHORTER transition allows you to use a longer turn radius. If you have very long transitions....you are going straight to a long time, and then have to turn sharper at the turn. A sharper turn for given speed creates more load. This is why you have to slow more for tighter turns in a race car! So by shortening his transitions, Ted made "his course" easier to ski. Go watch full speed video of Ted. Pay attention to the transitions and how quick (time) short (distance he ski was NOT on edge) they were. No one spent LESS time NOT ON EDGE than Ted. This is how he skied that wider rounder line that people talked about.
0:55 As far as the skis working as designed, arced and carved turns are the same. It is just the degree of leg angulation and the amount of ski bending that is different. 1:30 The degree that the ski is in control of and responsible for making the entire turn is based on the skier's speed, the ski design and the turn radius. In racing it is very often necessary to help the skis change direction because the ski can't handle a variety of radiuses. You can see that here. 7:00
@@1spwarman Are you having trouble discussing ski teaching methods? If you are, you should try Thinking of what is said instead of making useless comments that show your insecurity and jealousy.
8:44 This shows the proper c=action that is needed to allow the skis to make a new turn. It is the movement of the entire upper body down the hill that creates the new leg angle, not the thought of "Tipping" the knees or "Rolling the ankles over" to make the skis change edge. 8:50 And here is where the teaching jumps off the track. You don't have to discuss what individual parts of the body do while doing one simple thing. Go back to 8:44. A lot of body parts are moving during that simple fall down the hill. All you have to say is, face and lean down the hill as you take your weight off your downhill foot and balance on your uphill foot. What happens to your ankles, knees and hip position, are just the byproducts, not the focus of the teaching. When you teach a person to make a car turn, you have them rotate the steering wheel. You don't make them think of what happens to the steering column, steering rack, tie rod, upright and tires. K.I.S.S. Skiing is not at all complicated.
Coach, it would be less confusing if you said "the femur is rotating along its own axis as your femoral head rotates in the hip socket/joint". "The legs are turning" is vague can be easily misinterpreted.
I work with 10 year olds at times and found many do not understand it. The basis for understanding anything, is to be able to explain it simply. Legs is simpler than femur. I prefer non technical terms. But Femur makes you sound really smart. 😆
@@1spwarman Fair point.... I just think "turning your legs" is easily mistaken to mean steering the skis, etc. A great way to make it clear to younger minds is probably to swing your legs side to side while sitting on the chair.
Watch when the skier flattens the ski and changes edges, the spine stays perpendicular to the SLOPE, very important. At completion of arc the skier is angulated to stay balanced against the carving ski, the spine is perpendicular to the SLOPE, and the skier KEEPs the spine perpendicular to the slope, while releasing the edges, flattening the ski to the SLOPE, then switching edges.
7:00 This is a perfect exaggerated demonstration of how the positioning of the upper body dictates the start the new turn and helps the skis make the turn. Without this drastic positioning of her upper body in relation to the direction of her skis, she would never make the turn. Imagine her body is a torsion bar which she is twisting while her skis are locked on edge. When the weight comes off the downhill ski, the lock is released, and the legs and feet realign to face the direction of her upper body.
9:00 "How important it is to have pressure against the front of the boot." 9:10 This comment leads a person to believe that the skier has to think about making the femur rotate when the rotation of the femur is a natural result of doing something with your upper body while your skis are turning in a certain direction. You don't teach what individual body parts are doing and tell the student to duplicate that. "If you want your car to make a left turn, make the steering rack move left." 9:30 They aren't making their feet go to the side, their momentum in that direction and the fact that they have stopped their upper body from moving in that direction that creates that illusion. Most instructors worldwide teach the illusion. 9:42 The instructors that teach the "Tipping" of the knee or "Rolling the ankles over" to make the ski roll over onto the edge, need to focus their attention on this sequence. The skis are flying across the slope while the upper body has stopped. Every Technically Correct skier does this, they never think about knee tipping and ankle rolling. It only "Looks Like" she is making her feet move to the side and leaning her knees over. 10:00 "Watch the upper legs rotate to help change the edge and redirect the skis." That is not what she is doing! The thighs are rotating because she has stopped her upper body and pelvis from traveling across the slope while the skis are continuing across it. That thigh rotation doesn't make the skis change edge; it is a byproduct of the upper body redirection. You don't teach what parts of the body look and feel like during a turn. 11:06 "The stability of the upper body is dependent on the action of the legs and feet." The stability to the upper body is dependent on your mental attitude, your internal gyro and which foot you happen to be balanced on. There is No "Action of your legs and feet" unless you want them to based on an intentional physical input. Her skis are making her legs move, not the other way around. Now, in a racecourse or when skiing in certain areas or conditions, leg muscle input might be required to make the ski change direction more than they can as designed, but in normal skiing, your legs are just along for the ride to hold you up. The upper body flows down the hill where you want to go, and your skis make turns. Your legs hold you up. What they look like, or feel is just a byproduct. Instructors work very hard at making skiing very complicated. They just can't believe that skiing is easy and so too can be teaching it.
6:40 Actually, to start a new turn, the legs aren't turning. That is the biggest misconception in skiing. The feet and the legs have next to nothing to do with the start of a turn. The skis are turning and sliding while the upper body is staying stable in the fall line. It Is the re-direction of travel of the upper body, face to pelvis, while the skis are going across the slope, that creates the new leg angle that makes the skis roll over onto the opposite edges that allows the skis to make the new turn. While you focus on his pelvis and upper body in relation to his skis crossing the slope, you will see his upper body slow down as his skis keep going at the original speed. It isn't that the skis are accelerating, it is the upper body slowing down and heading down the hill or back into the fall line, that creates the leg angle change. imagine a Bungy cord running from the bottom to the top and it goes through his pelvis. His skis are crossing the hill and the cord is being pulled with them. When he decides to make a new turn, he stops pulling the cord and lets the cord pull his pelvis back into the fall line. The pelvis slows down, the skis keep going and the leg angle changes. 6:52 When the skis are under him, that's when he changes his weight and balance to the uphill ski. That ski rolls over and the new turn begins. His skis are going to his right but look where his eyes are focused. Down the hill. 7:00 Focus on her kneecaps and femur. The skis continuing to the right makes the femur rotate in the pelvis socket. Notice there is hardly any movement from the kneecaps up. That's because she is not allowing her upper body to cross the hill. The skis and the body have momentum. The skis can turn as designed using that momentum. The change of direction of the upper body weight is what changes the leg angle which rolls the skis over to start the new turn. A lot of words, body parts and movements that are used to teach skiing are the byproducts of other things happening that aren't taught. This video begins to touch on that subject. The glass is half empty only because the other half is full. You can't focus on those byproducts of a turn to try to teach how to make a new turn. 7:05 is just one example of this. You ski and make turns by the redirection of the upper body from your eyes down, not by focusing your attention from your feet up. 6:00 This is a case in point. The only way your feet can go from trampoline to trampoline is because you are Trying to keep your upper body in a neutral position between the trampolines. If you allowed your upper body to go with your feet, you would stop at that trampoline. Skiing is an incredibly easy activity to understand when taught correctly, but because of the slipping and sliding and visions of picking tree bark out of your teeth, it is hard to perfect. Perfection or confidence comes from understanding and then experiencing. It is that understanding that is hard to grasp because of the way skiing is taught. The focus is too much on what skiing looks and feels like instead of what it really is.
People, People, People! I have read most of the comments below and you are all way off base. Don't feel bad though because 99.99% of ski instructors have no clue what they are actually doing either. You do Not make a ski turn by "Rolling your ankles over!" First off, ankles can't roll to the sides. It is anatomically impossible. Even if it could roll over, it is locked in a SKI BOOT that doesn't bend to the sides! Ankles bend forward only! The entire leg has to lean over in order to make the ski lean over. You are also focusing your attention at the wrong part of your body. Now really Try to understand what I say here and keep your childish thoughts to yourself. Now visualize this. 7:00 When you want to make a turn, you face and lean your upper body down the hill while your skis are still crossing the hill. What will that do? It will make your legs lean from up the hill to down the hill. That new leg angle is what rolls your skis over. 7:07 When the skis pass under you, you change your weight and balance from your downhill to you uphill foot. 7:11 Do you really think she made that turn by thinking about rolling her ankles over? Do you think she is rolling her ankle over inside that boot? 7:13 Because her entire upper body is going down the hill instead of across the slope with her feet, her legs change angle. You ski down the hill by positioning your upper body down the hill and changing your weight to the uphill ski while gravity, your momentum and the skis design do the rest. You don't focus on the Results of doing what I just spelled out for you and call that teaching. If you do focus on your feet, ankles and knees to make turns, your upper body won't be where it needs to be to allow you to move those parts and your weight will not be over the tips of your skis where it needs to be to allow the skis to complete the turn you Forced to happen by focusing on your legs. 7:22 Look right here. When those skis turn around that gate, her upper body will be hanging over the tips of the skis. The turning part of the ski. If she kept her upper body up the hill and over her feet, 7:00, and just thought about rolling her ankles over, her upper body weight would be over the tail of her uphill ski. You can't just Follow your favorite ski instructor; you have to think for yourself.
aha JB91710 the all knowing and amazing coach that knows more then all other coaches or instructors, but not willing to post his name or willing to make a video. Hum?? With no name or other references, we have no listed qualification other then the self proclaimed greatest coach off all time.... LOL! But I do get a kick out of you visiting my channels, thank you for the laugh.
@@CoachWarman It's interesting "Coach," how you didn't defend your method and tell me where and how my method is wrong. I spelled out in detail how to do it while you don't explain anything. Certificates on a wall don't teach. Years in an organization like the PSIA don't teach. The number of "Followers" you have doesn't Teach either. Only what you say teaches people how to understand and remember what they need to do to allow their skis to turn. You and the rest of the "Ski Teaching" community don't Teach anything and I Prove it in every comment I make on your videos and all other videos on UA-cam. Not ONE of you defends your own methods or tells me where my method is wrong. Now, care to tell me line by line where and how I am wrong?
Nice work on this. Probably the clearest breakdown of a racing turn that I’ve seen.
A lot of people seem to be getting hung up on your distinction between arcing and carving, whining ‘they’re the same thing’, but I’m totally with you.
To me there is a huge difference between slowly and staticly grinding your way around the whole turn. (Your ‘arcing’) vs
Rolling your ski on edge and forcefully injecting power into the turn which shortens the radius and let’s you finish the turn early. You’re on and off the edge very quickly in real racing turns (Your ‘carving’)
What a fun game; just make stuff up. Grinding is what, exactly? And so now carving is where the racer shortens the radius of the turn rather abruptly, whereas arcing is a constant radius turn that involves "grinding". Grinding your teeth? Any other "definitions" you'd like to provide us? Not whining, mind you, just asking.
Thank you, It took me a long time to wrap my mind around this concept, so I get why so many do not understand it. It was only after I spent time with skiers at the world cup level and listened to how they perceived, and thought about what the ski was doing on the surface of the snow. Thanks for watching.
Well done coach for pointing this out. It really annoys me when people say/think that racers carve the whole way down a course when clearly they only carve during certain parts of the turn and then only briefly.
This is better advice than what I’ve been getting from Hotdog Hans.
Danny Pelletier has been dishing out some great tips.
?how to show iphone videos on smart tv
First off, no one ever said that racers carve the whole way down a run. There was always "float", there was always glide, there was always transition, there was always skidding, hopefully not too much and hopefully only on purpose. What you seem to be doing is redefining what it means to carve by distinguishing it from "arcing" which you say is carving that lacks pressure and maybe other skills. Not to say you are not free to redefine what it means to carve, but the implication is that the ski industry or population has been misusing or wrongly defining the term "to carve". It has not. Carving just means the edged ski tail follows the same groove that the tip has already cut, per sidecut radius. It's been like this since whenever you want to say the modern ski arrived on the scene. There's no requirement that "lots of pressue" or "it's only intermittent" be part of the mix. (Of course usually there is lots of pressure). Carving and arcing are - to me- pretty much synonymous. Your distinction adds what to the mix, exactly? Warren got it right 50 years ago.
Exactly Dap777754 - As mentioned in above comments, the goal of a racer is different than the goal(s) of free skiing. One is 'free' to create whatever 'arc' the skier prefers to suit the terrain and desired 'carved' turning radius.
@@brianoconnor3407 If I understand your point correctly, a free skier just arcs because he's under no real pressure to achieve a specific turn radius, while a racer carves because he has geographical constraints. I raced, and my free skiing turns largely mimic my racing turns. And the skiis themselves don't know the difference 'cause to them whether I'm running gates or free skiing, it's all the same to them. So respectfully, I reject the idea that ski mechanics and ski functionality depends on the skier's subjective intent. I repeat my contention that carving and arcing are synonomous. Arcing iseems to be what Warren Witherall used to call "railroad tracks." If the Coach wants to distinguish one from the other based on technical difficulty, that's fine. But the ski is doing the exact same thing in either context. Thanks.
Too much chat.....unless you like hearing yerself
Sasha Rearick calls it 'Impulse'.
Coach Warman uses the image of
'Bouncing from trampoline to trampoline down the hiil'...each trampoline 'Hit' is an 'Impulse'.
'Arcing' is a more casual, 'park and ride' dynamic.
Great video, coach. Been trying to get this message across to people for many years. The only way you can take that direct of a line when dealing with significant offset is to redirect the skis during the transition. Your pointing out of the use of pelvic anticipation is now that redirection (pivot) is powered. There's more to world class race turns than arc to arc.
Spot on Rick. Just stumbled onto this great channel on my feed and the coach nails it here in this video. I remember when you pointed me to this kind of turn entry that the retraction transition makes possible. Thanks. What puzzles me is the use of FIS exclusive TV footage and world class music! But I dont complain, top lesson. T
When I saw your name Rick I had to go and look at my two DVD’s I bought from you, called the Building Blocks. Basic balance and basic edging!! You have the same last name. I’ll be damn 😊
@@fourftr , hello! Yep, same Rick Schnellmann, hope you've enjoyed the training in those DVDs. The type of turn transition discussed in this UA-cam video is contained in my "Transitions" DVD, which comes later in the Building Blocks series. Happy turns my friend!
@@Triggerboy62 , Hi Tom! Been some years now, hasn't it. I'm so impressed with the work you've done with your UA-cam channel since then, all the lessons and valuable technical information you've shared with so many enthusiastic to learn skiers. 👍
@@rickschnellmann2316 It's interesting that you say that because with my 54 years of teaching experience I have never heard or seen him teaching skiing anywhere near correctly.
This is an excellent video -- thank you! Love the trampoline analogy and have felt that on very steep slopes free skiing but am excited to try it in a slalom course.
Thank You
Your video has helped my skiing immensely! Thank you for posting.
That moment of heavy carving/shaping pressure is what Sasha Rearick calls the "impulse".
Well, as we know, Sasha has it figured out.
Yes, brief intense carve loads outside ski to max and then 'pops' off snow through transition (fun part!). Always felt pelvis follows shoulders (upper body triangle) initiating transfer to new outside ski. Killy did this alot in Joubert's book 'Ski the New French Way' (1967) and it was termed 'anticipation'. Great video - Kudos!
I saw the same thing when I read that book too. There are a couple of examples of Patrick Russel as well. The book really emphasized down unweighting and anticipation. I think the equipment limitations of narrow fiberglass or metal skis, with the start of plastic boots limited what could be done. Had Killy or Russel had modern equipment, they would had made turns like Shiffrin or Herschel do.
A long time ago, somewhere in 1987, with the help of "jumping" technique, I managed to break into the top 20 at the USSR Championship, starting in 140 numbers. Carving skis only enhance the possibilities of such jumps, but this technique itself is quite old - although no one taught me about it, but I think it was used long before me.
Great info and insight, Sean! I love the trampoline idea. I talk about this in bumps a lot. Each bump is a mini tramp! For a nice surprise--use the thighs! That's what I coach.
Thanks Terry! I am honored you are watching my channel!
Btw carving phases she seems to be 'gliding' lightly to nxt turn. She seems to be best of all women in slalom in accelerating the speed from the pressure of carving turn.
The results achieved confirm the effectiveness her flawless technique. 🌹
I can see that you mix up things. First of all, carving is when your ski edges carve the snow. You should be able to see the tracks of the ski edges as single lines. You have the start of the carved turn the turn itself and then the transition, when the ski pressures decrease. But if there is a single line track after a ski, then it is carving. This is what I think is the most correct understanding of what carving is.
Arcing is edge/pressure with zero steering/guiding the ski. Carving is/can include arcing in part of the turn (like shaping phase) but also has a component of steering/guiding the skis where tail follows tip (like initiation/completion phase) but is not skidding where arc of tail is larger than arc of tip and skis are moving more laterally across the snow surface (skidding) compared to arc of turn. Slipping is where the skis are moving perpendicular to the path of travel. Check alpine tech manual for glossary of terms.
Modern parabolic or carve skis allow the skier to carve with virtually no edge pressure as the shape of the ski comes almost pre flexed so an intermediate can carve with very little technique. With racing skis, FIS rules mean that sidecuts for GS and slalom skis now have a turn radius of more than 30 metres when recreational skis may have a turn radius of less than 15 metres, so modern GS racers will often have to skid the skis to iniate the turn.
SL ski with 30m radius?
An FIS requirement?
Surely not for SL.
Yeah , it should just said GS skis over 30m, slalom skis can be down to 15 m or even less
@@johnmcalester5165 thanks, john.
@johnmcalester5165
SkiDadTV had a recent video comparing a "roll 'em up/arc to arc" WC skier to a fellow WC competitor who used stivots and other maneuvers to adjust his line (in GS) along with "clean completions" to achieve a superior run. Tied to/ generated some discussion about the large radius GS skis currently req'd by FIS.
Good video by SkiDadTV here:
What Matters the Most on the World Cup? Ski Dad Breaks down the Val D'Isère GS 2023
m.ua-cam.com/video/TbVumV8KY5s/v-deo.html
Discussion about large radius GS skis...like this comment:
"@keirfarnum6811
It’s almost kind of sad. I’m guessing if FIS allowed tighter radius sidecuts, we could have cleaner skiing with a more completely carved turn in phase 1 of turns after the transition. Keeping sidecuts so long almost forces the skiing to be scrappy and messy and takes away from the beauty of great skiing. I still don’t know how Ted(Ligety) was able to do what he did, but I miss that style of skiing."
What I am seeing is that the skis are on edge earlier in the turn and there is less sideways motion that causes slowing and loss of the edge's hold on its line (skidding). Whatever you call this early phase of the turn, early edging makes the change in direction less abrupt and reduces skidding, enabling the skis to hold more speed through the bottom of the turn.
Very informative.
My one and only day of slalom skiing happened in my mid-50s (over 10 years ago). I was (and still am) overweight and skied only a few times a year. I was with a group of mostly young guys and a few older, very expert skiers. It was in spring at Winter Park and the snow conditions were pure ice because it had been warm, then had turned cold. Unlike most of the other Colorado people in the group, I grew up skiing in New England, where ice was par for the course. Because the regular runs were so horrible, we all decided to try a NASTAR run just above the restaurant where we had stopped for lunch and beers. You paid $5 and got to make three runs down a slalom course pitted against one other skier. After the first two runs against my son, I realized that my times were pretty good. So, I challenged the best skier in our group, a guy I worked with who lives for skiing. I had skied with him before and could never keep up.
The slalom run was laid out with a flat section at top, then a series of gates down a steep pitch, with a horrible very sharp last gate before the timer at the bottom. Everyone kind of held back a couple of gates before the last gate to insure you could make the turn and not crash.
Oddly, the one thing that helped motivate me was also the thing that should have guaranteed I would lose. I dropped a pole coming out of the start gate, and had to nearly stop to get it back into my hand and looped on my wrist - there was no way to recover that lost speed on the flat. But, in order to minimize further embarassment and at least make somewhat of a race out of it, I decidedto just go for it with my skis aimed straight downhill when I dropped into the steep part.
AND, I remembered a couple of things from watching those World Cup skiers on TV. 1) Initiate the turn just above the gate and 2) shift your weight off of the outside ski as quickly as possible to end the turn, then aim those skis downhill again. I also decided to take each gate one at a time, without thinking about that nasty turn at the bottom. I also realized that, when it comes to speed, ice is your friend.
The result was that I shot by my expert friend about 1/2 way down and never looked back. I beat him by over 1.5 seconds and ended up with the fastest time on the course for that entire day. Not bad for an old, overweight guy who had never raced before. I guess growing up skiing on ice gave me an advantage over those pampered Colorado powder skiers.
In watching your video I realized that, somehow, without ever having skied a slalom course, I had absorbed some of the critical techniques that you are teaching, just from watching ski racing on TV. Pretty amazing and totally unexpected.
AND not to be repeated ever again. Quit while on top they say. I am now 68 and a recent heart attack prevented me from skiing this winter. But I aim to be back on the slopes at least a few times next winter.
Anyway, thanks for your informative video.
P.S. My wife and I wrote two books on the history of skiing in Colorado which might interest you or some of your viewers. www.lostskiareasofcolorado.com/
Interesting interpretation. I prefer the explanation of Harald Harb. To my eye there is no falling down the hill. It’s an illusion. The pelvis is stable. Just look from 11:15-25. I think Harb has it right. The key movement between turns is the shortening of the old outside leg by flexing the knee, dorsiflexing and pulling what becomes the new inside foot back, enabling the edge of the new outside ski to carve from the top of the C into the fall line, before the next transition, retraction, across the fall line.
ua-cam.com/video/DbzGGBOf1UY/v-deo.html
I agree, that is what happens in some slalom and GS turns but not in the offset slalom gates shown here. The technique involved has to suit the course, terrain, and snow conditions.
"To my eye there is no falling down the hill. It’s an illusion." You think it is an illusion that you go Down the hill from the top to the bottom? You are in a constant state of falling down the hill. What creates the leg angle change to start a new turn is you are falling down the hill while your skis are finishing a turn into a traverse.
5:34 This is it!
"I think Harb has it right. The key movement between turns is the shortening of the old outside leg by flexing the knee," That is by no means the "Key"! If their upper body wasn't falling down the hill when they "Shortened the downhill leg", they would just continue a traverse across the hill balanced on the uphill edge of the uphill ski. It is the fall down the hill that creates the leg angle change which rolls the uphill ski over onto the inside edge that allows the ski to turn.
In all the years I have been watching and listening to HH, he has never said or shown one thing correct. He doesn't Ski what he preaches. I once saw him try to ski with his downhill knee "Tipping" and all he did was trip and stumble down the hill. Then he transitioned into correct body movements, and he was back to skiing fine. He just can't "See" what he is actually doing and turn it into a correct teaching method. He is fixated on his feet and knees and not enough on his upper body and allowing the ski design to work.
Ignore jb91710. He is a troll.
For me, an important element is HOW you shorten the inside leg. If you just actively bend your new inside leg more, it does not work. You will lose edge angle similarity and get horizontal ski separation instead of vertical ski separation. You will take weight OFF the outside ski, and not increase outside ski edge angle. The way you do it is by carving the inside ski, very early in the turn, which is exactly what pulling the inside ski back / dorsiflexing to keep inside ski front pressure enables. Deb Amstrong also talks about this in one of here vids with a Jr. skier, where she talks about driving the inside knee to control turn radius. When you do this, you are not pulling your leg shorter, the ski is pushing it shorter. Having he ski shorten your leg by pushing up on your inside puts your body in the correct position to crank a high load turn. That is the way of thinking about things that has worked for me. The outside ski does the work, but the once you get to high angles (say 60 deg+) it is the inside ski that is the control level that allows you to crank out that last 20+ degrees of angle.
Good stuff, but the skier at 6:00 is spending just as much time carving as they are in the transitions, about 5 ski lengths each. Of course, those are more open gates than Mikaela was skiing earlier in the video. I'm happy if I can get my students to at least "arc," let alone carve, but most intermediates just don't have the leg stamina do do more than about 3 carving turns.
Good point!
For a basic clarification of the terms:
Gliding (on skis) is defined as a mode of locomotion in which the longitudinal axis of the ski is identical to the direction of locomotion (going straight, carving). On the other hand, sliding is described as a type of locomotion in which the longitudinal axis of the skis does not correspond to the direction of locomotion (sideways slipping). It follows that as soon as the skis move not only sideways but also forwards, there is a gliding and a sliding component. Drifting is defined as a turn with a sliding component.
With the carved turn, the tail of the ski follows the tip of the ski and the ski only glides forward without sliding sideways. Due to the construction and the load, the edged carving ski bends. The waist shape of the ski allows a canted and loaded ski to lie with the edge in an arcuate line on the snow. In contrast to a drifted turn, the skis do not have to be actively turned when carving.
In steeper terrain or with tighter turns, the skis must be set at an angle at the beginning of the turn by drifting (skidding, pivoting) that allows the turn to be finished along the sidecut of the ski (carving). The drifting turning of the skis then transitions into the gliding cutting of the inside edges. The expert masters the entire spectrum of turn control from sliding to curved sliding to cutting and is able to coordinate these elements appropriately according to the situation.
(Source: current textbook of the Austrian Ski Instructors Association)
Consequently, a railroad track turn is also a carved turn if it is performed properly from edge to edge and there is no lateral slipping component. The edging angle isn't big and the ski can't bend that much, but it's definitely a carved turn.
A larger bending line requires a larger edging angle. And to be able to take this you need more inclination. The higher centrifugal forces required for this are created on the one hand by a higher speed in the turn and on the other hand, of course, due to the tighter curve due to the larger edging angle, higher centrifugal forces also arise.
The fact that in slalom only a more or less small part of the turn is carved is actually a platitude. And in giant slalom it becomes even more obvious that completely cleanly carved turns are only rarely possible.
"Whoever is able to complete the carved part of the turn with the shortest possible pressure phase is the fastest." (Statement by a ski instructor colleague, former Forerunner in the World Cup)
I often talk about semantics, and it is easy into dark tunnel when we start trying to define terms. Having worked programs and resorts across the planet and with coaches and instructors from every walk of life, there are many terms with various meanings. None of them are wrong, its there term, there perspective. Whats critical, is that the athlete, student, coach, etc you are working with understands the term in the same manor you do.
@@1spwarman Hello Sean, I really appreciate your clips and have already saved quite a few. However, why railroad track turns should not be carved in your eyes is not entirely clear to me. Of course, these don't have exactly the same movement pattern as a SL or GS turn performed at competition level, but that's not decisive for whether it's carving or not. Finally, you can even carry out a snow plow in a carved version. But if you are of the opinion that there is an important and good reason for this, then I would be very interested in it.
Then the question arises, what is an arced turn. For me, that was always the part of the turn that is cleanly cut on the edge and therefore leaves a trace in the snow in the form of a narrow, curved line. As soon as there is a significant lateral slip component (I'm not talking about a few millimeters), it's no longer carving. The entire turn can therefore be carved over almost its full length (of course not during the transition) or consist of cleanly carved as well as slipped or even "flown" (without ground contact) parts. In the second case I would only call the carved part arced, in the first case the entire turn.
Of course you can develop your own nomenclature in your direct sphere of influence and use modified terms or even reinterpret them, and trainers and athletes will of course still understand each other very well. However, something like this can quickly lead to a kind of tribalization and the formation of sects.
I find it more helpful if everyone speaks the same language and makes the most precise delimitations possible for the terms he uses and if possible sticks to the type of usage that is used in the majority of the user sphere.
But of course something should also be changed if there are good and important reasons for doing so.
You need to stop talking so much
I have a question - as arcing is rolling the ankles which is what I do, what I thought was carving, does carving then not involve rolling the ankles? If not, then what is involved to carving turns? Another question - when one gets the hand to the ground in the turn, what is involved there specifically?
If you put a ski on its edge and turn with no sideways skidding of the ski, then you are carving. If you drop your hip to start the turn then your ankles will automatically "roll".
if i understand this correctly, carving is driving the turn radius tighter than the sidecut. and arcing turns is riding the edges (railroading) the sidecut radius turns.
I will share my perspective, and its only that. rolling the ankles is an element of all good skiing. Powder, racing, carving, etc. Its a movement that sets up the rest of the base of support. All the movements in effective skiing are present in all conditions. We adjust the intensity and timing of these movements to change the outcome or objective. Us mortals skid because we need to bleed off speed and not scare $h!t out of ourselves. Ski racers skid for various reasons such as adjust line, but ultimately for them its skid in carve out. As far as the hand on the snow, that is a result of getting our body inside the turn and the hand ends up working as a very slight balance aid. I have herd world cup guys talk about modulation with their hand. For them, they need to get that far into it to get the ski on high edge which allows them to bend the ski more and increase pressure.
@@CoachWarman Interesting, thanks :)
@@CoachWarman " rolling the ankles is an element of all good skiing." I think you need to talk to an orthopedic surgeon about your method because ankles don't roll to the inside and knees don't bend to the side so How is it that you can say that rolling your ankles is important? Also, not one word of your comment taught how to do any of what you said. "Coach?" Really?
Pffff, "putting a carving ski on edge is not carving the ski. It's only when more pressure is used it is called carving." Soo...how much pressure exactly? Does that mean kids cannot carve and 150 KG adults carve all the time because of the higher pressure?
you just need enough pressure to bend the ski past it's listed radius. anybody of any weight can do it on the right skis- that's why kid's skis are easier to flex than wc skis
@@bmbdan1005 That is not the point. This guy says a ski is not carving when there is not a boatload of pressure. While in fact a ski is already carving if you just run it on it's side, no matter the pressure. It was a rhetorical question to the poster of this video.
@@davesmulders3931 if a ski is just on its side it's only railing. its just a difference in technical definition but otherwise it's pretty much the same thing
@@bmbdan1005 if a ski is on its side is not only railing, it is carving. Without pressure you carve the radius the ski is marked for. With pressure you only change the radius of the carve
For a reacreational skier, with leg muscles that have a hard time keeping up with a week of 6 hours a day skiing - any trick to improve on muscle “efficiency” would be welcome.. Maybee the question is a little out of scope - since speed controle (reducing speed) is more important. Running on 17” swingradius ski. I think I am rooling my knees from side to side and arching for the full swing, thus creating “a lot of acid” in the legs. Would short burst of carve possible be less of an energy drain - or is it only a tecnique for the fit athlete? Is skidding in general the best way of killing speed, with least muscle effort?
The short burst of carve are very demanding on the legs. The load is intense. I would not consider this an approach for someone who is trying to conserve energy. Skidding is an effecent method to kill spead, as is bringing the ski tips across the hill. Good luck.
Beginners are taught not to rotate the shoulders up into the hill. Did I get this right; the hip should not rotate up the hill?
The hips ... in general, face the direction of travel or the next gate. This statement is an over simplification, but for sure the shoulders do not rotate up the hill. Ever.
How does Ted Ligety fit this discussion? Maybe he is arcing more than others do???
Arcing...carving...same thing...sorry. As described in this video, a "carve" is just a much more highly loaded arc. This might be a very useful distinction for coaching purposes, but it is not valid for describing how the ski is actually working. This is because the body position and technique to really load up the ski (carve....60 deg+ edge angles) is very different from a moderately loaded carve/arc. So creating a distinction may be useful for instruction.
But a modern ski operates in two modes. 1. It is tracking (carve, arc, etc) along the edge and the edge a foot in front of your toes and edge a foot in back of your heel is passing over the same point in the edge track -or- 2. It is not tracking (brushed/skidded/stivoted turn) and the point your edge a foot in front of your toes passes over is up the hill by the time the edge a foot behind your heel gets to it. There is no functional difference in HOW THE SKI IS ACTUALLY working from an "arc" to a "carve"....the ski is tracking along the edge.
As for Ted, what he did was SHORTEN HIS TRANSITION so that he could link together larger radius turns, as dictated by the 35m skis. This allowed him to put less load on his legs for a given speed down a course. Or, for the same load, he cold be going faster. You have to draw out the geometry to really understand it...but using a SHORTER transition allows you to use a longer turn radius. If you have very long transitions....you are going straight to a long time, and then have to turn sharper at the turn. A sharper turn for given speed creates more load. This is why you have to slow more for tighter turns in a race car! So by shortening his transitions, Ted made "his course" easier to ski. Go watch full speed video of Ted. Pay attention to the transitions and how quick (time) short (distance he ski was NOT on edge) they were. No one spent LESS time NOT ON EDGE than Ted. This is how he skied that wider rounder line that people talked about.
0:55 As far as the skis working as designed, arced and carved turns are the same. It is just the degree of leg angulation and the amount of ski bending that is different.
1:30 The degree that the ski is in control of and responsible for making the entire turn is based on the skier's speed, the ski design and the turn radius. In racing it is very often necessary to help the skis change direction because the ski can't handle a variety of radiuses. You can see that here. 7:00
I love people that do not have the confidence to use their own name and throw spears at ideas and talk $h!#. They call them Trolls
@@1spwarman Are you having trouble discussing ski teaching methods? If you are, you should try Thinking of what is said instead of making useless comments that show your insecurity and jealousy.
Ski design gauged pressure manipulations effect exclusion zone hyper fluidity. it's all carving.
8:44 This shows the proper c=action that is needed to allow the skis to make a new turn. It is the movement of the entire upper body down the hill that creates the new leg angle, not the thought of "Tipping" the knees or "Rolling the ankles over" to make the skis change edge.
8:50 And here is where the teaching jumps off the track. You don't have to discuss what individual parts of the body do while doing one simple thing. Go back to 8:44. A lot of body parts are moving during that simple fall down the hill. All you have to say is, face and lean down the hill as you take your weight off your downhill foot and balance on your uphill foot. What happens to your ankles, knees and hip position, are just the byproducts, not the focus of the teaching.
When you teach a person to make a car turn, you have them rotate the steering wheel. You don't make them think of what happens to the steering column, steering rack, tie rod, upright and tires.
K.I.S.S. Skiing is not at all complicated.
Coach, it would be less confusing if you said "the femur is rotating along its own axis as your femoral head rotates in the hip socket/joint". "The legs are turning" is vague can be easily misinterpreted.
I work with 10 year olds at times and found many do not understand it. The basis for understanding anything, is to be able to explain it simply. Legs is simpler than femur. I prefer non technical terms. But Femur makes you sound really smart. 😆
@@1spwarman Fair point.... I just think "turning your legs" is easily mistaken to mean steering the skis, etc. A great way to make it clear to younger minds is probably to swing your legs side to side while sitting on the chair.
Watch when the skier flattens the ski and changes edges, the spine stays perpendicular to the SLOPE, very important. At completion of arc the skier is angulated to stay balanced against the carving ski, the spine is perpendicular to the SLOPE, and the skier KEEPs the spine perpendicular to the slope, while releasing the edges, flattening the ski to the SLOPE, then switching edges.
Follow harb
LOL
7:00 This is a perfect exaggerated demonstration of how the positioning of the upper body dictates the start the new turn and helps the skis make the turn. Without this drastic positioning of her upper body in relation to the direction of her skis, she would never make the turn.
Imagine her body is a torsion bar which she is twisting while her skis are locked on edge. When the weight comes off the downhill ski, the lock is released, and the legs and feet realign to face the direction of her upper body.
🐔💩🤡
9:00 "How important it is to have pressure against the front of the boot."
9:10 This comment leads a person to believe that the skier has to think about making the femur rotate when the rotation of the femur is a natural result of doing something with your upper body while your skis are turning in a certain direction. You don't teach what individual body parts are doing and tell the student to duplicate that. "If you want your car to make a left turn, make the steering rack move left."
9:30 They aren't making their feet go to the side, their momentum in that direction and the fact that they have stopped their upper body from moving in that direction that creates that illusion. Most instructors worldwide teach the illusion.
9:42 The instructors that teach the "Tipping" of the knee or "Rolling the ankles over" to make the ski roll over onto the edge, need to focus their attention on this sequence. The skis are flying across the slope while the upper body has stopped. Every Technically Correct skier does this, they never think about knee tipping and ankle rolling. It only "Looks Like" she is making her feet move to the side and leaning her knees over.
10:00 "Watch the upper legs rotate to help change the edge and redirect the skis." That is not what she is doing! The thighs are rotating because she has stopped her upper body and pelvis from traveling across the slope while the skis are continuing across it. That thigh rotation doesn't make the skis change edge; it is a byproduct of the upper body redirection. You don't teach what parts of the body look and feel like during a turn.
11:06 "The stability of the upper body is dependent on the action of the legs and feet." The stability to the upper body is dependent on your mental attitude, your internal gyro and which foot you happen to be balanced on. There is No "Action of your legs and feet" unless you want them to based on an intentional physical input. Her skis are making her legs move, not the other way around.
Now, in a racecourse or when skiing in certain areas or conditions, leg muscle input might be required to make the ski change direction more than they can as designed, but in normal skiing, your legs are just along for the ride to hold you up. The upper body flows down the hill where you want to go, and your skis make turns. Your legs hold you up. What they look like, or feel is just a byproduct.
Instructors work very hard at making skiing very complicated. They just can't believe that skiing is easy and so too can be teaching it.
6:40 Actually, to start a new turn, the legs aren't turning. That is the biggest misconception in skiing. The feet and the legs have next to nothing to do with the start of a turn. The skis are turning and sliding while the upper body is staying stable in the fall line. It Is the re-direction of travel of the upper body, face to pelvis, while the skis are going across the slope, that creates the new leg angle that makes the skis roll over onto the opposite edges that allows the skis to make the new turn.
While you focus on his pelvis and upper body in relation to his skis crossing the slope, you will see his upper body slow down as his skis keep going at the original speed. It isn't that the skis are accelerating, it is the upper body slowing down and heading down the hill or back into the fall line, that creates the leg angle change.
imagine a Bungy cord running from the bottom to the top and it goes through his pelvis. His skis are crossing the hill and the cord is being pulled with them. When he decides to make a new turn, he stops pulling the cord and lets the cord pull his pelvis back into the fall line. The pelvis slows down, the skis keep going and the leg angle changes.
6:52 When the skis are under him, that's when he changes his weight and balance to the uphill ski. That ski rolls over and the new turn begins. His skis are going to his right but look where his eyes are focused. Down the hill.
7:00 Focus on her kneecaps and femur. The skis continuing to the right makes the femur rotate in the pelvis socket. Notice there is hardly any movement from the kneecaps up. That's because she is not allowing her upper body to cross the hill. The skis and the body have momentum. The skis can turn as designed using that momentum. The change of direction of the upper body weight is what changes the leg angle which rolls the skis over to start the new turn.
A lot of words, body parts and movements that are used to teach skiing are the byproducts of other things happening that aren't taught. This video begins to touch on that subject. The glass is half empty only because the other half is full. You can't focus on those byproducts of a turn to try to teach how to make a new turn. 7:05 is just one example of this.
You ski and make turns by the redirection of the upper body from your eyes down, not by focusing your attention from your feet up.
6:00 This is a case in point. The only way your feet can go from trampoline to trampoline is because you are Trying to keep your upper body in a neutral position between the trampolines. If you allowed your upper body to go with your feet, you would stop at that trampoline.
Skiing is an incredibly easy activity to understand when taught correctly, but because of the slipping and sliding and visions of picking tree bark out of your teeth, it is hard to perfect. Perfection or confidence comes from understanding and then experiencing. It is that understanding that is hard to grasp because of the way skiing is taught. The focus is too much on what skiing looks and feels like instead of what it really is.
People, People, People! I have read most of the comments below and you are all way off base. Don't feel bad though because 99.99% of ski instructors have no clue what they are actually doing either.
You do Not make a ski turn by "Rolling your ankles over!" First off, ankles can't roll to the sides. It is anatomically impossible. Even if it could roll over, it is locked in a SKI BOOT that doesn't bend to the sides! Ankles bend forward only! The entire leg has to lean over in order to make the ski lean over. You are also focusing your attention at the wrong part of your body.
Now really Try to understand what I say here and keep your childish thoughts to yourself.
Now visualize this.
7:00 When you want to make a turn, you face and lean your upper body down the hill while your skis are still crossing the hill. What will that do? It will make your legs lean from up the hill to down the hill. That new leg angle is what rolls your skis over.
7:07 When the skis pass under you, you change your weight and balance from your downhill to you uphill foot.
7:11 Do you really think she made that turn by thinking about rolling her ankles over? Do you think she is rolling her ankle over inside that boot?
7:13 Because her entire upper body is going down the hill instead of across the slope with her feet, her legs change angle.
You ski down the hill by positioning your upper body down the hill and changing your weight to the uphill ski while gravity, your momentum and the skis design do the rest. You don't focus on the Results of doing what I just spelled out for you and call that teaching.
If you do focus on your feet, ankles and knees to make turns, your upper body won't be where it needs to be to allow you to move those parts and your weight will not be over the tips of your skis where it needs to be to allow the skis to complete the turn you Forced to happen by focusing on your legs.
7:22 Look right here. When those skis turn around that gate, her upper body will be hanging over the tips of the skis. The turning part of the ski. If she kept her upper body up the hill and over her feet, 7:00, and just thought about rolling her ankles over, her upper body weight would be over the tail of her uphill ski.
You can't just Follow your favorite ski instructor; you have to think for yourself.
aha JB91710 the all knowing and amazing coach that knows more then all other coaches or instructors, but not willing to post his name or willing to make a video. Hum?? With no name or other references, we have no listed qualification other then the self proclaimed greatest coach off all time.... LOL! But I do get a kick out of you visiting my channels, thank you for the laugh.
@@CoachWarman It's interesting "Coach," how you didn't defend your method and tell me where and how my method is wrong. I spelled out in detail how to do it while you don't explain anything. Certificates on a wall don't teach. Years in an organization like the PSIA don't teach. The number of "Followers" you have doesn't Teach either.
Only what you say teaches people how to understand and remember what they need to do to allow their skis to turn. You and the rest of the "Ski Teaching" community don't Teach anything and I Prove it in every comment I make on your videos and all other videos on UA-cam. Not ONE of you defends your own methods or tells me where my method is wrong.
Now, care to tell me line by line where and how I am wrong?