Steel Nerd News! Cold Steel S35VN, Steel Will M390
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
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Good gravy its bricky on things
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Ok. So they had Advanced Knife Bro do the test. He found: 'It's M390 - ish'
Yeah, that's just... I admire Pete's patience for such BS lol Seems like these people don't even know what the hell they're making their own knives from.
the funny thing is theres a good steel there, like thats a totally fine recipe, especially in a PM steel. Its just lacking vanadium like crazy, if the report is accurate
lol at AKB comment. but reality is there machine probably just didn't test for vanadium. who knows.
Didn’t hear a word you said.... just kept watching Basil... need more Basil...
Price and availability is King. They probably just don't want to buy a new melt of xhp. Which is about 10,000 dollars and ya have to pay for it to be rolled down to your thickness size. I called carpenter because I really wanted b75p. But they haven't made any since 2010 and asked me if I wanted a new melt. The price blew me away.
*Speculation, cold steel probably saw they had better profit margins and similar performance with S35VN.
I don't think cold steel tested anything. they said xhp is the same as s35vn which is clearly not. but the rest of your answer could be true. but what I see is there decision is made on trends. the market is trending to s35vn and lack knowledge on xhp. hence the switch. pretty sure that's the real story. but I'm not cold steel.
Tactical Center it's not like they are doing custom heat treatments to really juice the XHP. It's mass production. It's time is money. Can't waste extra time with extra steps that only yield 10% more performance for 30% more cost. They can't afford to look at it as an enthusiast does. If an enthusiast wants that extra performance then that's what the custom world is for.
Tactical Center it's about the bigger picture. Steel Freaks like us would prefer XHP but Cold Steels market is more then just steel nerds. It's a different game when you have to deal with people that aren't. The stuff steel geeks like isn't cost effective or useful to the masses, it's niche.
Big Brown Bear is the heat treatment and labor more time consuming and expensive for xhp than using s35vn. I haven't really looked at it like that.
John Tedichwon if they heat treat s35vn to over 60hrc it would likely require more steps and time because of cryo and tempering. Im not familiar with the heat treatment protocols of xhp. anyone know that can elaborate? I haven't looked at the datasheet recently or read about what different makers are doing to it to achieve 63hrc.
big brown bear I agree they are just mass production knives but the xhp is spot on on these cold steel knives.
Not so sure that I'm at all happy about the S35 switch for Cold Steel. I LOVE S35 but XHP fits Cold Steel's "personality" (or lack thereof) much better...
Yes, this is a pretty big step down. I have to wonder, why they didn't stop half way down, on their way to choosing S35VN, and pick CPM 154 instead? That would have been a spectacular choice.
Oh well. Stock up on your XHP Cold Steel Knives now, before they are gone!
: - )
I don't think that xhp will be completely gone, hopefully they'll return to it, but if they won't, I would be more than happy with s35vn blades. Then again, I will probably pick up an american lawman in xhp just to have one. S35vn will probably be great, and allow us to have satin cold steel blades.
I definitely prefer XHP and CPM154 over S35VN, but can understand why they are going that route.
Yes, as they have said: "it’s become increasingly difficult to acquire the quantities of CTS®XHP steel needed to produce our products."
They have also stated: “We feel we can deliver the same, great quality products to our customers sooner and for the same price, by using American CPM-S35VN steel,” - I found that a bit odd. Considering that S35VN should be cheaper. Why not a price reduction? After all. Edge retention tests, here on this channel. Have XHP at 242 cuts, and S35VN at 192-ish cuts. Not to mention, that this Carpenter XHP Steel is harder to come by, which should bid the price up some. Plus, XHP is about 15% tougher. Corrosion resistance, is nearly equal.
So I go take a quick look at my knife steel supplier, and their current pricing. Today, they have CTS-XHP at $30 usd, for a 12" long piece. That is 0.125" thick, and 1.5" wide. The same size piece, in S35VN, is $32.60 usd.
Ryan Holzer Why? Just a curious question.
About the cold steel switch, I think there it might be true as to why, many of their knives have been out of stock with "delayed by manufacturer" for several months. I thought this, combined with their terrible new lineup, indicated financial trouble. It is too bad though, I'll have to complete my collection before they make the switch.
I think you were so right. GSM
Basil is a credit to his species. I used to really dislike cats. But he’s warming up my cold black heart
I also keep a pm3 pressed to my nipple at all times
finally. Someone who gets me
😂👏🏻
Dude, you say " enthusiast" but most off us (at least I do) see you as an authority. given no else really does an edge retention test like you nor has anyone tested as many steels as you (that I've found). Is it the most scientific test, no. But it's by far the most applicable test for the layman. Off all the knife channels I watch, and they are plenty, you are by far one of the best in regards to actual edge testing. And for that, I thank you
I really enjoy watching your cut test videos. Often wonder how going to a 20 or 25 angle would effect outcomes. I think some steels would do better and some worse.
I'm still waiting for Basil's take on the steel. Stay tuned.
Basil!!!
*Cold Steel Full Statement*
Dear Cold Steel Customers,
We’d like to let you know about some changes you’ll begin to see on Cold Steel products-sold both in the U.S. and internationally. We have found that it’s become increasingly difficult to acquire the quantities of CTS®XHP steel needed to produce our products within a timely fashion.
While we are very pleased with the outstanding performance our CTS®XHP products have provided customers over the years, we are challenged by its inaccessibility and feel that using American CPM-S35VN offers a formidable solution to this problem. We feel we can deliver the same, great quality products to our customers sooner and for the same price, by using American CPM-S35VN steel-which arguably offers the same strength, durability, and edge retention properties that are associated with CTS®XHP.
Our goal is to always have satisfied customers, and we feel that by eventually using CPM-S35VN for more products, it will allow us to get our awesome blades in your hands sooner and help to prevent long backorder wait times. This change will not take place overnight, but rather, will be a gradual process. Thank you for your continued support and stay #neverunarmed!
Sincerely,
Lynn C. Thompson and the Cold Steel Crew
XHP has been hard for me to get ahold of for a while, I really like working with it, but I may have to find another steel too.
Zelrick I wonder if the taichung spydercos will follow suit too, Chaparral, Dice, Techno etc
Spyderco has a huge amount of influence and buying power, so I bet it will be business as usual for them. But what do I know, I'm just the other random jackass...
big brown bear know his stuff -thanx bro
Exactly why I picked up an American lawman today.
Lol I love that cat
Look at Demko's S35vn, if he's involved (and he is) I don't think its a step down. Lateral move at worst. Kevin Cleary has a video about his Demko AD15, he said he didn't believe it was S35vn at first because it performed SOOO well.
Edit: here's the link
ua-cam.com/video/ZAAqjBJMSpI/v-deo.html
He mentions it at 7:10 ish
Also, as far as steel will goes I have nothing but great things to say about them, and keep in mind that they are really new to knives they are known for really high quality airgun replicas of ww2 weapons. Just give them some time and what few issues there may be will be taken care of. I have the Apostate model and some of the things I've done to that knife are horribly abusive, and it's still like new in terms of action and holding up. I just can't break that thing. It's S35vn with ceramic ball bearings (and ss bearing tracks) G10 and titanium for 150 bucks......... Buy one, also Pete I'll send you mine for review if you like! Keep up the great content.
Basil is super cute.
Pete , are you going to test the D2 Modus ? It would be interesting if it got the same results as the fake M390 blade, and I wish you would have done a rust test on the Modus, just to see what would have happened ??? It would have helped a little with this mystery....
Good grief Pete, that's a huge cat!
The main reason, as I see it, for using S35VN over XHP is bulk pricing. With steel the more you buy the more you save and at certain quantities you save really big. I don't know if Cold Steel has their own factory or if they outsource their production but if their OEM is already using S35VN for other knives there's a savings to be had by piggybacking the Cold Steel order onto other people's. A second reason might be that S35VN might be easier to machine which would save some money and it's a pretty tough steel which would still fit into Cold Steel's rugged marketing profile. I might add that as S35VN is also pretty rust resistant, Cold Steel might take the opportunity to produce more un-coated blades which would appeal to certain people, and reduce the cost of making the knife at the same time..... just some random thoughts.
Lastly "certain reviewers" have called XHP 'a great steel for the price'... which sounds a lot like "budget steel". I know that's never what you meant... but still S35VN has a mystique about it as a premium steel. I mean it's in knives costing upwards of a few hundred dollars. People who know knives might appreciate the benefits of XHP... but there are going to be lots of people around the fringes who are going to get excited about S35VN at Cold Steel rather than Chris Reeve prices. It's usually all about perception, mark up and marketing to the ill-informed hordes.
Basil is truly awesome! Cutest cat in Southern hemisphere!
Basil is the Southern hemisphere
And now back to our correspondent in the studio. Take it away Basil! 'Snooore'
S35VN is an awesome steel, but at the same time i'd wish they cold steel would stick to their CTS-XHP
would be interesting to interview a steel company or supplier.
BTW I'd love to see steel news more often.
i sent the link of the video to cold steel. they said cool, ty.
Hey Pete, I think you have a career in steel news! Don’t bother too much about Basil walking off in the middle of the program. He doesn’t get the “news” concept. It’s ok. But this is by far the most captivating way I have viewed knife news presented. Period. Thanks! 👍🏻👍🏻
Full review of cat please.
If cold steel changes the grind from hollow to ffg or flat saber grind I would not be bothered by that either however that is really the only thing I would like to see change is use the same steel but change it to full flat or a high saber grind cuz I really like their knives I need to the hold out 2 saten finish before it disappears.
S35VN just isn't as good as
CTS-XHP, so I hope Cold Steel's prices lower accordingly.
I hope Steel Will gets this M390 ordeal figured out. My brother has the Modus in D2 and it seems like a pretty good knife (especially for the price). They could be one of the best deals out there, but it looks like they have a bit of work to do in order to perfect their product.
I am glad I picked up a XHP Lawman, when I had the chance. I wonder if I should pick up a second Lawman, or pick up a Broken Skull?
KillerDeegan You sir, are an enabler.
KillerDeegan Well, I picked up another AL. Was going to get OD Green this time, but I wussed out and picked up another FDE.
Man I love my broken skull! get one!
I bet that it doesn't have any vanadium because it took time to test that and make a chart and send it to you so I think that's the reason why you did not have the edge retention that you were expecting out of m390 because it had no carbides or very little carbides to keep cutting through the Rope as the steel broke down
Have y'all got that cat on Valium, or what? He seems unnaturally chill ALL of the time. XD
Mike Uman Chill? That's him being hyperactive...
I'd like to see you cut test Damascus.
I have a ton of fixed blades most of which are 1095 and Damascus and let me tell you I am really impressed with some of it. Damascus.
Takes a wicked Edge and retain set Edge for quite some time
nice, damascus is interesting as the steel doing the cutting could be any number of preexistinng ones. Often they use 15n20, rwl34, vg10 or 1084. Ten damascus brand ‘Damasteel’ apparently uses something akin to s35vn.
That cat is great !
I kinda liked the steel news you should do another one
Whaaaa? No Vanadium? Crazy. Somethings are stranger then fiction.
hope the switch does not affect geometry... can't stand saber grind, thick behind the edge wood splitters...
Steel will probably bought a batch of M390 that didn't have Vanadium in it. Also looks like there is no Tungsten either. Bohler made a mistake I'm guessing?
OK, so Basil is he big cool cat, right? And ya, XHP is for me a great steel, along w/ 110v...
I prefer S35vn over XHP. Much better corrosion resistance. Tougher. Easier to sharpen.
That cat looks like a giant moving stuffed animal.
Sad to see XHP go... Definitely a money/machining time saving measure IMHO... Hopefully there will be a slight price decrease to go along with it but I doubt it. And also I'm seriously hoping somebody can figure out a way to reverse engineer the steel app to put in that exact recipe and see if there is another steel that matches up more closely.
Nowadays Cold Steels S35VN is just as good if not better than XHP.
This is great it's like a who done it. And it wasn't the butler...or maybe it was.
I LOVE XHP.
That's one big ass cat!!
Also what happened to the Tungsten?
cts xhp is better than s35vn the onley advantage s35vn has is it is a bit more stain resistant and xhp is tougher and would fit cold steels mall ninja esc style of knifes better than s35vn
bp69 - the simple truth is s35vn is easier to machine period. That's why we see all of these custom designers using it rather than XHP, M4 and the likes
Have you tried putting the information steel will gave you on the lab results into Google, just to see if a steel pops up?. On Cold steel going to S35vn- I think they are both good enough that the average person just using the knife as much as a normal person would....I don't think they will see much difference in cutting performance. However, S35vn is a bit more stainless, so maybe that is worth it to them. Also, maybe they think S35vn is a bit more proven, or desirable from the consumers prospective. I hope with the change, they will start going away from coating most of the blades black, that's one thing I'm not a fan of
stiill want you to do k390 vs m390 info!
I also hope that Clod Steel will use both CTS-XHP and S35VN materials to produce blades, as a consumer, we are free to choose the blade we like.
What thickness of sisal rope do you use?
I love the CS XHP, s35 is a downgrade to me . That being said , I hope CS does not charge more for their knives , right now they are a great deal for what you get , Code 4 is $65.00 , Broken Skull $67.00 and so on. Right now CS's S35VN knives are well over $120.00 , thats double the $$$ in the US , I know I wont pay double for a Recon 1 ($84.00 on Amazon right now ,glad I have 3)and most of their new designs suck. The only good thing I see coming out of this is they will probably finally start putting satin blades on alot of the older models , I've been dreaming of a Recon 1 Spear Point with a 2 tone satin blade, that would be F--kin Awesome.
And where is the Wolfram(Tungsten) 0,6%?
Damn "Church" did not get hit and buried in the Pet Sematary! Church went down to AUS gained weight and is now living with a Knife nerd.
ask customer service to get you an email of one of their product managers or metallurgists. time to move up a paygrade.
Thanks Pete , strange I suspect something fishy.
Great video again as always. So the reason of the S35VN switch over XHP (as we see even many custom makers use), is simply because it's easier to machine. The added niobium (aka columbium) makes it much easier to work with overall
The carbon content is quite a bit different too. On top of that, they found a substantial amount of nickel, which according to the Bohler's own data sheet isn't even supposed be there, but missed 0.6% tungsten. Either that's a different steel or that test was no better than anybody's guess.
I can understand that 0.003% sulphur or even 0.07% copper are unintended impurities. But how the hell do you lose 4% vanadium and 0.6% tungsten, and end up with extra 0.2% carbon and 0.34% nickel which wasn't even supposed be there in the first place?
Sounds like a Chinese take on M390 if you ask me ;)
Not a fan of S35VN the steel on all of my ZTs seem very very soft as compared to the S30V on my spydercos
Xhp is zdp lite
Xhp has done better in your test the 35vn I thought?? I'm not talking about the fails either.
yeah as I said, I can get it to go higher, edge retention wise. But who knows, they might be able to push S35VN
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors anyone you know with an CS sr1?
Basil appears highly stressed.
That fuzzer
What do you feed that cat? It looks like a furry hippo lol
Good vid. And you are damned close to 10k subscribers!
test CH knifes and Fura knifes steel
I've seen s35vn failing more than any other steel. It's not all bad but something is out of whack with the steel.
Where is this cold steel steel switch listed, posted at?
was on their instagram and knife news. I'll link in the top thingy
My cat would be so pissed if I man-handled him like that.
I order a CTS code 4 but what I got is AUS 10. It seems downgraded.
Hey, Pete... If the BBC can put up a daily Global News podcast (and I can't do a frickin' thing about 99.9% of what's reported)... um... where's our daily Steel Nerd News update, mate?? Oh, sure, you have a "day job" and all, but man, this is News I Can Use! Get pumped up, buy a new perfect knife -- problems solved! At least for another week...
Your son is looking very skinny Pete...do you need help feeding the poor guy?
Sooo fluffy sorry what were you saying
That's a pretty big letdown from Cold Steel
Is your cat stoned?
S35 is really boring steel for me. Geez become a snob. Only if I like the design a lot a lot.
Exactly! I’ve seen 50usd s35vn chinese knives. They should drop the price but they won’t. More profits for them but I hope that means more better designs in the future.
Nnnneeeeeerrrrrrrd!
there is no m390 recipe in the video when you show the steel recipe you gesture and nothing happens
www.bucorp.com/media/Bohler_M390_Microclean.pdf
Page 3 - the recipe/composition from Bohler, the maker.
my last layover didnt work 😫
All the steels are Recipes. They add and reduce the elements in the melt to get the spec of the formula they are making. It's not magic. People have to make.
i meant in the video he shows the recipe for 1 steel and not m390
Steel News is apparently sponsored by Wakanda. Wakanda Forever!
jesus.....that's the fattest cat ever
Fuck sakes, man. Why does it ALWAYS HAVE TO BE S35VN. It's great shit, but come the fuck on, half my collection is s35
Cold Steel fucking sucks on the low end. CRKT has the worst knife steel ever. AUS-8 is dog shit. Just felt like saying all that. I just tested a brand new SOG trident elite (aus-8) vs a two year old shit schrade vs. parachord. The schrade cut like butter. The sog with aus-8 couldn't cut through para AT ALL. Steel matters. Spend the extra money
Good grief. Is this ENGLISH....????????????????????????????????