I honestly love these little tanks, would have loved to see one speeding along with a short commuter train sometime in the late 19th or early 20th century.
I must commend you for the use of overlaid highlights to explain details in photos and drawings. It much improves the integration between illustration and narration. Idea for video, Tank Engines: The Basics.
As an American I find the number and variety of British locomotives absolutely fascinating as are your outstanding videos on these locomotives. Very much appreciated here in the U.S.
Huzzah! I love the Beattie Well Tanks! They're very high on my list of "UK Locomotives to Bribe Kris Wilson of Caledonia Works to Bump Up His To-Do List to Get Into Train Simulator". When it comes to titles, I prefer succinctness to brevity.
When in both manifestations of the York Railway Museum, I was fascinated by the different guises of the little Notth Eastern loco, the Aerolite. The GW had a C19th habit of re-using unstable locos and turning their frames around, adding trailing and leading wheels as necessary, but the little Aerolite has some very old parts inside her.
Huge fan of Beattie's feedwater heater "Medusa"-s, such peak early Victorian design aesthetic. I recall seeing a few paintings of such engines in a book I had and they were really very striking. The auxiliary pump on the side of the loco reminds me of something you'd find on a little live steam locomotive.
This may seem like a strange question, but when did the modernization of these engines take place? Because I've seen some images and models of these engines with cabs in the bright LSWR green. I'm curious as to whether that is accurate or not, (Not that I'm saying it needs to be, just a nagging curiosity)
Very pleasant looking engines I must say, quaint even. I’m glad so many survived. Do we know anything about the great multitude of safety valves? Inadequate capacity, or doubts about reliability?
160psi was quite high for 1863 so pretty much "belt and braces approach" same with the two salter valves and two lock-ups. The present of two lock ups meant any tampering with the salters would prevent any nasty surprises.
Would love to see these engines in LSWR green. Well, one of the many LSWR greens. Possible video idea but why were the LSWR so prone to change their livery?
Considering the locomotive; I must say tanks for this story. And I note this is not a locomotive where the working gear is not hidden away from the maintenance folks.
There is valve gear between the frames hidden away and harder to access for maintenance. Just the outside cylinders, crosshead and connecting rods make it a bit easier for maintenance. Worth looking between the frames when you see these types of locomotives on static display.
@@johnd8892 Yes, thank you. I missed that. U.S.(or North American) used Stevenson valve gear rather late, which would be a headache for the maintenance crew. I have to guess that the British loading gauge restrictions lead to burying everything inside, rather than a desire to hear maintenance weep.
@@delurkor Stephenson, surely? Inside valve gear is just a tradition from 1830 onwards - it kept the locomotive looking neat and tidy. Putting the valve gear inside also meant it was less susceptible to knocks and bangs and dirt. Inside valve gear on the standard gauge is perfectly accessible so long as you have an inspection pit so you can get underneath. The only real awkwardness is with inside cylinder locomotives with crank axles is lubricating the big ends, squeezing into an often restricted space. On the narrow gauge however, deeply questionable, but that's just how it was done for well over a century to tastefully hide away the moving parts. There are also perfectly sound engineering ideas behind inside cylinders: it puts the recriprocating masses as close to the centre line of the locomotive as possible to prevent the phenomenon known as "hunting" which can badly damage the permanent way. Having the cylinders etc outside puts those reciprorating masses as far away from the centre line as possible, not neccessarily a good idea, especially when running at speed or on poor permament way.
@Ted Moreland Well, outside cylinders (with inside Stephenson valve gear) was also a feature of many classes designed by Beattie's successor William Adams, such as the preserved Adams Radial tank no 488 and the T3 express engine no 563. During this period, though, most British locos had inside cylinders with inside gear, usually Stephenson. The double eccentrics required for a set of Stephenson link gear were best fitted inside on an axle. Fitted outside they look rather clumsy (see Black Five no 4767 'Stephenson' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Black_5_George_Stephenson_7_(5441137329).jpg or the old RENFE locos 'dressed up' as American for Once Upon a Time in the West ) I don't think it was a matter of loading gauge, just that Stephenson gear was better arranged inside. I think the same applied to the classic American 4-4-0's which used outside cylinders with inside gear and rocking levers. As soon as Walschaerts valve gear came into general use in Britain it was usually fitted outside, at least on outside-cylinder locos.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory First, apologies to the late Mr. Stephenson(the hind brain was saying I was wrong while typing). Second, thank you(and cr01) for the lesson. It does reduce my bias toward inside workings. And finally thank you for producing these videos, they help us geeks across the Pond to learn more about GB steam. 👍
These must be the LSWR equivalent of a Pug or Terrier. It’s so small yet so powerful. I recently saw one on display at the NRM. It was a nice surprise, although I don’t know how long it will stay there for.
Or, at least Beyer, Peacock did as all the Beattie patent components - boiler, feedwater heater etc - were all taken off and the core Beyer, Peacock design soldiered on.
Early Irish locomotives were all imported from England- then again at that period the whole of Ireland was part of Great Britain. The first steam railway in Ireland, the Dublin & Kingstown (now Dún Laoghaire) had locomotives built in Liverpool by Forrester of the Vauxhaull Foundry and in Manchester by Sharp, Roberts & Co. I think the oldest surviving Irish locomotive is from 1846, built by Bury of Liverpool.
I normally found on heat exchangers that there is huge energy savings to be had with kit like that and then powering it and drag takes most of it back :o(
Yeah basically. Ensure all the hydrocarbons (volatile matter) is properly combusted to produce water and carbon dioxide. But as soon as Mr Kirtley came up with the brick arch, the combustion chamber wasn't needed.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory , some victorian railways (victoria australia) locos in the mid 20th century had combustion chambers. some as-built and some after-market. i dont think they were the same shape but they were called combustion chambers. i think a couple of r class got combustion chambers added along with lempor front ends in the 1990's when they were owned by west coast railways. i think the designer's name was david wardale.
I honestly love these little tanks, would have loved to see one speeding along with a short commuter train sometime in the late 19th or early 20th century.
I must commend you for the use of overlaid highlights to explain details in photos and drawings. It much improves the integration between illustration and narration.
Idea for video, Tank Engines: The Basics.
Finally, I was hopeful you would cover these marvelous little engines, definitely worth the wait!
Glad you liked it! :)
As an American I find the number and variety of British locomotives absolutely fascinating as are your outstanding videos on these locomotives. Very much appreciated here in the U.S.
Glad you like them!
I love me a quaint tank locomotive (hence why I've requested Shannon and Gazelle numerous times) and these guys fit right in,
Huzzah! I love the Beattie Well Tanks! They're very high on my list of "UK Locomotives to Bribe Kris Wilson of Caledonia Works to Bump Up His To-Do List to Get Into Train Simulator".
When it comes to titles, I prefer succinctness to brevity.
Charming little locomotives, and that from an ardent LBSC Terrier fan! The image @ 4.06 of a cabless early well tank looks strange to modern eyes..
They lived a long life, having some being preserved is great.
I've had the honor to have driven and fired both of the preserved locomotives :)
I've fired and driven 30587 when she was in Manchester. lovely little thing but absolutely worn out.
When in both manifestations of the York Railway Museum, I was fascinated by the different guises of the little Notth Eastern loco, the Aerolite. The GW had a C19th habit of re-using unstable locos and turning their frames around, adding trailing and leading wheels as necessary, but the little Aerolite has some very old parts inside her.
Wonderful looking engines, remind me alittle bit of Ivor
Huge fan of Beattie's feedwater heater "Medusa"-s, such peak early Victorian design aesthetic. I recall seeing a few paintings of such engines in a book I had and they were really very striking. The auxiliary pump on the side of the loco reminds me of something you'd find on a little live steam locomotive.
How have I never heard of you? You're excellent.
I'll have to check you out more later.
Great video and explanation of the LOCO.
This may seem like a strange question, but when did the modernization of these engines take place? Because I've seen some images and models of these engines with cabs in the bright LSWR green. I'm curious as to whether that is accurate or not, (Not that I'm saying it needs to be, just a nagging curiosity)
Thumbs up Anthony.A bit of a coincidence,i was interested in their us for shifting china clay in Cornwall when up popped your vid.ha ha.
Thanks.
Very pleasant looking engines I must say, quaint even. I’m glad so many survived.
Do we know anything about the great multitude of safety valves? Inadequate capacity, or doubts about reliability?
160psi was quite high for 1863 so pretty much "belt and braces approach" same with the two salter valves and two lock-ups. The present of two lock ups meant any tampering with the salters would prevent any nasty surprises.
Would love to see these engines in LSWR green. Well, one of the many LSWR greens. Possible video idea but why were the LSWR so prone to change their livery?
Considering the locomotive; I must say tanks for this story.
And I note this is not a locomotive where the working gear is not hidden away from the maintenance folks.
There is valve gear between the frames hidden away and harder to access for maintenance.
Just the outside cylinders, crosshead and connecting rods make it a bit easier for maintenance.
Worth looking between the frames when you see these types of locomotives on static display.
@@johnd8892 Yes, thank you. I missed that. U.S.(or North American) used Stevenson valve gear rather late, which would be a headache for the maintenance crew. I have to guess that the British loading gauge restrictions lead to burying everything inside, rather than a desire to hear maintenance weep.
@@delurkor Stephenson, surely? Inside valve gear is just a tradition from 1830 onwards - it kept the locomotive looking neat and tidy. Putting the valve gear inside also meant it was less susceptible to knocks and bangs and dirt. Inside valve gear on the standard gauge is perfectly accessible so long as you have an inspection pit so you can get underneath. The only real awkwardness is with inside cylinder locomotives with crank axles is lubricating the big ends, squeezing into an often restricted space. On the narrow gauge however, deeply questionable, but that's just how it was done for well over a century to tastefully hide away the moving parts.
There are also perfectly sound engineering ideas behind inside cylinders: it puts the recriprocating masses as close to the centre line of the locomotive as possible to prevent the phenomenon known as "hunting" which can badly damage the permanent way. Having the cylinders etc outside puts those reciprorating masses as far away from the centre line as possible, not neccessarily a good idea, especially when running at speed or on poor permament way.
@Ted Moreland Well, outside cylinders (with inside Stephenson valve gear) was also a feature of many classes designed by Beattie's successor William Adams, such as the preserved Adams Radial tank no 488 and the T3 express engine no 563. During this period, though, most British locos had inside cylinders with inside gear, usually Stephenson. The double eccentrics required for a set of Stephenson link gear were best fitted inside on an axle. Fitted outside they look rather clumsy (see Black Five no 4767 'Stephenson' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Black_5_George_Stephenson_7_(5441137329).jpg
or the old RENFE locos 'dressed up' as American for Once Upon a Time in the West )
I don't think it was a matter of loading gauge, just that Stephenson gear was better arranged inside. I think the same applied to the classic American 4-4-0's which used outside cylinders with inside gear and rocking levers.
As soon as Walschaerts valve gear came into general use in Britain it was usually fitted outside, at least on outside-cylinder locos.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory First, apologies to the late Mr. Stephenson(the hind brain was saying I was wrong while typing).
Second, thank you(and cr01) for the lesson. It does reduce my bias toward inside workings.
And finally thank you for producing these videos, they help us geeks across the Pond to learn more about GB steam. 👍
I'd love to know more about the ones converted into tender engines. What were their numbers/class?
These must be the LSWR equivalent of a Pug or Terrier. It’s so small yet so powerful.
I recently saw one on display at the NRM. It was a nice surprise, although I don’t know how long it will stay there for.
It's part of the UK National Collection, 30587. We had it in Manchester. I've fired it. Completely and utterly worn out.
Not according to BR apparently. They were somehow classed as a 0P. That always confused me.
Are there any recommended scale models of these available? They're really attractive locomotives!
Here ya go. www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/108/KMRC-Locomotive---LSWR-Beattie-Well-Tanks
Hey, thanks!
THANK YOU . REG R.
Love it! 💜
Excellent as always! Thanks
So Beattie senior actually designed a forerunner of the catalytic converter 😂
I dont think he designed the combustion chamber - other designers were using them at the same time.
A design to last 100 years of service. Beatie must have known what he was doing to pull that one off.
Or, at least Beyer, Peacock did as all the Beattie patent components - boiler, feedwater heater etc - were all taken off and the core Beyer, Peacock design soldiered on.
How about videos on snow ploughs and crow catchers?
Do you know anything about early Irish steam locomotives?
Early Irish locomotives were all imported from England- then again at that period the whole of Ireland was part of Great Britain. The first steam railway in Ireland, the Dublin & Kingstown (now Dún Laoghaire) had locomotives built in Liverpool by Forrester of the Vauxhaull Foundry and in Manchester by Sharp, Roberts & Co. I think the oldest surviving Irish locomotive is from 1846, built by Bury of Liverpool.
Why is it that some early locomotives had smokeboxes that were tilted at the front end?
The sloping front helps increase the flow rate of the gases. Just like why chimneys taper toward the top.
I wonder if anyone has ever tried to really figure out that the cost savings of the design, say with a modern CAD simulation. I expect..$0
Not as far as I am aware.
I normally found on heat exchangers that there is huge energy savings to be had with kit like that and then powering it and drag takes most of it back :o(
Why did they take the tender off of that locomotive-
It was built as a tank engine and never had a tender. The original Beyer, Peacock & Co design could be supplied as a tank or tender engine.
Great locomotive pity the designer made the blamed footplate so tiny!
At MOSI it came as a revelation compared to that of our RSH "Agcecroft No. 1" for its size and comfort.
So, the combustion chamber was, effectively, a rudimentary catalytic converter like in modern cars? Huh, not such a new idea after all
Yeah basically. Ensure all the hydrocarbons (volatile matter) is properly combusted to produce water and carbon dioxide. But as soon as Mr Kirtley came up with the brick arch, the combustion chamber wasn't needed.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory , some victorian railways (victoria australia) locos in the mid 20th century had combustion chambers. some as-built and some after-market. i dont think they were the same shape but they were called combustion chambers. i think a couple of r class got combustion chambers added along with lempor front ends in the 1990's when they were owned by west coast railways. i think the designer's name was david wardale.
It's the engine in ttte in the story monster under the shed
how is beattie well tender engine looked it??