Zack Snyder fully understood the meaning behind the genre critique in Moore and Gibbon’s graphic novel, so when adapting the work he translated that critique to the new medium by creating a superhero film about superhero films. Snyder’s film both critiqued the previous superhero films and set the stage for the future of the genre. Both the graphic novel and film are a self-aware genre critique. As the genre has grown, Watchmen has naturally become more relevant as a genre analysis than when it was initially released in 2009, before the superhero craze had reached the heights of cotton-candy consumerism. When promoting the film, Snyder said “a lot of people would think it’s just a Hollywood superhero movie, because they don’t know.” People go to blockbusters to escape, but instead of indulging the audience's wish fulfillment for mindless spectacle, the film is directly provocational. For instance, the film’s graphic violence, was created to provoke the audience to question and reflect on their consumption of violence as entertainment. This is also present in the graphic novel when the Comedian, savagely beaten by another costumed character, breaks the fourth wall with the reader and asks, “this is what you like, huh? This is what gets you hot?” In an interview with Empire Magazine, Snyder commented on his use of graphic violence by noting, “[in the graphic novel] Alan punishes you a little bit for liking violence, he lures you in a scenario where in a normal comic book the violence you’d get would be morally clear, [though in Watchmen] you get a little bit of punishment for assuming that everything’s going to be washed over and easy to understand. That’s where [I tried to come at it with the film].”
@@thenerddesk111 absolutely. Snyder is a fantastic director and his DC films are some of the most reverent of the source material. He absolutely understood the source material for watchmen.
Right so about the "batman getting assaulted in prison" quote that get's misinterpreted everytime, here's what he actually said in response to the interviewer calling Nolan's Dark knight "dark" [Everyone says that about Christopher Nolan’s batman begins. ”Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get R-word in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go. ] When he says "my movie" he's specifically talking about 2009's Watchmen, he's saying that in that version of the movie he's making, if Batman was in it, he could get assaulted in prison. Not that he literally wants to make a movie where batman gets assaulted in prison.
Thank you for pointing that out, in general I think this video had a lot of flaws, one of which being spotty second hand info on Snyder, so I appreciate you and everyone else pointing out the things I overlooked.
I agree with this video heavily. The best way I can put it is Snyder acts like all of these characters sat down for an hour and fully explored exactly what it is they believe about morality. They act like these are principles that they strive to love by as opposed to almost subconscious fears and skewed beliefs about how the world works, like how they are in the comic. This paints all the characters as tacitly above humanity, and Snyder acts like each character has their own valid perspective by the time the ending twist comes. Moore stated that Rorschach essentially had a death wish throughout the comic that he was able to fulfill at the end, whereas Snyder treats it as a glorified martyrdom which is ridiculous to me. The Comedian is the best representation of this problem to me, in the comics he's severely depressed that a man like him can be so successful in the world. In the film, when he shoots the pregnant woman he then makes it out to be a lecture to Dr Manhattan about him being out of touch, whereas in the comic he's lamenting this and hurt that Manhattan didn't stop him. Snyder fundamentally can't understand anyone in a costume still psychologically and morally being on our level
The Watchman Movie can be sum with this sentence. It may look like Watchmen, but it doesn’t feel like Watchmen. Honestly I think compared to the other DC Movies Snyder made, Watchman was at least a movie that felt like it made sense compared to Snyder’s other movies.
i was surprised at your subscriber count, i thought you were a bigger channel from the quality of your videos. i just subscribed, also what are your thoughts on watchmen part 1?
Hmmm... Something rubs me the wrong way about this one... Admittedly, the art style of the comic reminds me so much of the old, detective comics from the 80s that it bounced me back right away, and to this day I haven't gone through it fully, but, I might do just to make sure that I ain't just delusional. My issue right now is this: I ain't gonna say that you are wrong, especially cause I haven't read the comic, but, I feel like I got more or less the same impact and messages watching the movie that you describe getting from the comic. I would argue that you mistakenly came to the realization that because the movie is a more shallow than the comic, it comes across like a regular superhero movie, and, that's simply not the case I'm afraid. The majority of people who like Watchmen first came to touch with it through the movie, and, even though I would never disagree that Snyder wastes a ton of energy making his shit look cool, I don't think people would be so infatuated with the idea of Watchem just cause they look like a darker version of X-men or the JLA. Again, I might be wrong, but, I think the issue is that you first became exposed to the ideas and messages of the story through the comic, and, it may very likely be doing those concepts a lot more justice than the movie does, I ain't gonna deny/dispute that, but, I don't think it's fair to say that the movie ain't giving off all the same vibes, for The Comedian, Rorsach, Ozyomandias and Dr Manhattan. If anything, I always thought that the idea of making Manhattan the threat was actually a better idea than leaving it be some cartooney monster, something that would come off much less realistic in the world of Watchmen in my opinion than the person known as a GOD around the world going crazy and deciding to rid the stupid humans of their worries by ionizing them. I don't know, as I said, I need to do some research on this one to give you a proper reply, but... yeah, I don't think the movie is THAT much lesser than the comic. Here's a new recommendation by the way, you should do V for Vendetta. Now, that one, that one I have read and watched, and I do believe it's gonna be a tough nut to crack and compare.
V for vendetta would be great, and I appreciate you explaining your argument. I honestly read and watched mostly at the same time when I discovered the story, and then I watched a lot of videos and did research on Snyder, and the themes and parts of Watchmen in the comic. Perhaps those swayed my opinions, but I agree that Comedian, Manhattan and Rhorshack are the same. But honestly Osymandias still had something about him I can’t quite pin down in the movie. I think even if you might be wrong, what you said still has some merit.
@@thenerddesk111 I mean, I haven't read the comic, so I'll take your word on it. I personally got all that from the movie, the deconstruction of a superhero society, the dehuminzation brought on by god-like power, the gray zone and all the "sacrifices for the common good" that Ozyomandias's attempts on social engineering brings, and the insanity of being so moraly rigid and straight up a psychopath who's left to his own devices that's wrapped around Rhorshack's character. I just got a lot from Watchmen the movie, a lot more than basically any other Snyder movie. I guess following most of the dialogues to the t came through and overshadowed his attempts of making the story "cool".
the only reason why I disagree with more ending and Snyder‘s ending so I think with Snyder he tried to make it as what if God destroyed his creations because you look as Dr. Manhattan as a God, he’s the only person in the world with powers so honestly, I think it was a pretty smart like idea, but I don’t think it was properly said or put correctly on the screen like the idea of a god attacking his children and his children have to come together to defend themselves because all of them were fighting so I don’t know it’s a kind of a weird of idea, but I guess it works in my eyes when you watch it from that perspective, but I can understand why people wanted the alien instead of that.
Sorry about the low quality in some parts everyone, also if I messed up any of the important parts of the story in my analysis let me know.
Zack Snyder fully understood the meaning behind the genre critique in Moore and Gibbon’s graphic novel, so when adapting the work he translated that critique to the new medium by creating a superhero film about superhero films. Snyder’s film both critiqued the previous superhero films and set the stage for the future of the genre. Both the graphic novel and film are a self-aware genre critique.
As the genre has grown, Watchmen has naturally become more relevant as a genre analysis than when it was initially released in 2009, before the superhero craze had reached the heights of cotton-candy consumerism. When promoting the film, Snyder said “a lot of people would think it’s just a Hollywood superhero movie, because they don’t know.” People go to blockbusters to escape, but instead of indulging the audience's wish fulfillment for mindless spectacle, the film is directly provocational. For instance, the film’s graphic violence, was created to provoke the audience to question and reflect on their consumption of violence as entertainment. This is also present in the graphic novel when the Comedian, savagely beaten by another costumed character, breaks the fourth wall with the reader and asks, “this is what you like, huh? This is what gets you hot?” In an interview with Empire Magazine, Snyder commented on his use of graphic violence by noting, “[in the graphic novel] Alan punishes you a little bit for liking violence, he lures you in a scenario where in a normal comic book the violence you’d get would be morally clear, [though in Watchmen] you get a little bit of punishment for assuming that everything’s going to be washed over and easy to understand. That’s where [I tried to come at it with the film].”
I never saw that, in restrospect this comparison was very flawed, and I would’ve done a lot differently, thank you for the insight.
@@thenerddesk111 absolutely. Snyder is a fantastic director and his DC films are some of the most reverent of the source material.
He absolutely understood the source material for watchmen.
Right so about the "batman getting assaulted in prison" quote that get's misinterpreted everytime, here's what he actually said in response to the interviewer calling Nolan's Dark knight "dark"
[Everyone says that about Christopher Nolan’s batman begins. ”Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get R-word in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go. ]
When he says "my movie" he's specifically talking about 2009's Watchmen, he's saying that in that version of the movie he's making, if Batman was in it, he could get assaulted in prison. Not that he literally wants to make a movie where batman gets assaulted in prison.
Thank you for pointing that out, in general I think this video had a lot of flaws, one of which being spotty second hand info on Snyder, so I appreciate you and everyone else pointing out the things I overlooked.
I agree with this video heavily. The best way I can put it is Snyder acts like all of these characters sat down for an hour and fully explored exactly what it is they believe about morality. They act like these are principles that they strive to love by as opposed to almost subconscious fears and skewed beliefs about how the world works, like how they are in the comic. This paints all the characters as tacitly above humanity, and Snyder acts like each character has their own valid perspective by the time the ending twist comes. Moore stated that Rorschach essentially had a death wish throughout the comic that he was able to fulfill at the end, whereas Snyder treats it as a glorified martyrdom which is ridiculous to me. The Comedian is the best representation of this problem to me, in the comics he's severely depressed that a man like him can be so successful in the world. In the film, when he shoots the pregnant woman he then makes it out to be a lecture to Dr Manhattan about him being out of touch, whereas in the comic he's lamenting this and hurt that Manhattan didn't stop him. Snyder fundamentally can't understand anyone in a costume still psychologically and morally being on our level
First great video! Love watchman hope that new animated movie is good
Thank you! Also what do you mean first 😂?
@@thenerddesk111 i meant first to comment my bad😅👍
The Watchman Movie can be sum with this sentence.
It may look like Watchmen, but it doesn’t feel like Watchmen.
Honestly I think compared to the other DC Movies Snyder made, Watchman was at least a movie that felt like it made sense compared to Snyder’s other movies.
I thought the message of the comic was that Ozy was the "good guy".
i was surprised at your subscriber count, i thought you were a bigger channel from the quality of your videos. i just subscribed, also what are your thoughts on watchmen part 1?
Haven’t seen it yet, once part 2 is out I might look at them both.
Im pretty sure i saw a clip from an interview with zack snyder where he said that he didnt get the point of watchmen
Hmmm... Something rubs me the wrong way about this one...
Admittedly, the art style of the comic reminds me so much of the old, detective comics from the 80s that it bounced me back right away, and to this day I haven't gone through it fully, but, I might do just to make sure that I ain't just delusional.
My issue right now is this:
I ain't gonna say that you are wrong, especially cause I haven't read the comic, but, I feel like I got more or less the same impact and messages watching the movie that you describe getting from the comic. I would argue that you mistakenly came to the realization that because the movie is a more shallow than the comic, it comes across like a regular superhero movie, and, that's simply not the case I'm afraid. The majority of people who like Watchmen first came to touch with it through the movie, and, even though I would never disagree that Snyder wastes a ton of energy making his shit look cool, I don't think people would be so infatuated with the idea of Watchem just cause they look like a darker version of X-men or the JLA.
Again, I might be wrong, but, I think the issue is that you first became exposed to the ideas and messages of the story through the comic, and, it may very likely be doing those concepts a lot more justice than the movie does, I ain't gonna deny/dispute that, but, I don't think it's fair to say that the movie ain't giving off all the same vibes, for The Comedian, Rorsach, Ozyomandias and Dr Manhattan. If anything, I always thought that the idea of making Manhattan the threat was actually a better idea than leaving it be some cartooney monster, something that would come off much less realistic in the world of Watchmen in my opinion than the person known as a GOD around the world going crazy and deciding to rid the stupid humans of their worries by ionizing them.
I don't know, as I said, I need to do some research on this one to give you a proper reply, but... yeah, I don't think the movie is THAT much lesser than the comic.
Here's a new recommendation by the way, you should do V for Vendetta. Now, that one, that one I have read and watched, and I do believe it's gonna be a tough nut to crack and compare.
V for vendetta would be great, and I appreciate you explaining your argument. I honestly read and watched mostly at the same time when I discovered the story, and then I watched a lot of videos and did research on Snyder, and the themes and parts of Watchmen in the comic. Perhaps those swayed my opinions, but I agree that Comedian, Manhattan and Rhorshack are the same. But honestly Osymandias still had something about him I can’t quite pin down in the movie. I think even if you might be wrong, what you said still has some merit.
@@thenerddesk111 I mean, I haven't read the comic, so I'll take your word on it.
I personally got all that from the movie, the deconstruction of a superhero society, the dehuminzation brought on by god-like power, the gray zone and all the "sacrifices for the common good" that Ozyomandias's attempts on social engineering brings, and the insanity of being so moraly rigid and straight up a psychopath who's left to his own devices that's wrapped around Rhorshack's character.
I just got a lot from Watchmen the movie, a lot more than basically any other Snyder movie. I guess following most of the dialogues to the t came through and overshadowed his attempts of making the story "cool".
@@entropias_gonosyeah I get you, and everything you got from the movie I think you’d get from the book too.
the only reason why I disagree with more ending and Snyder‘s ending so I think with Snyder he tried to make it as what if God destroyed his creations because you look as Dr. Manhattan as a God, he’s the only person in the world with powers so honestly, I think it was a pretty smart like idea, but I don’t think it was properly said or put correctly on the screen like the idea of a god attacking his children and his children have to come together to defend themselves because all of them were fighting so I don’t know it’s a kind of a weird of idea, but I guess it works in my eyes when you watch it from that perspective, but I can understand why people wanted the alien instead of that.
Zack’s Superman to me, just feels like his Dr Manhattan