As a whitewater rafter, I can tell you that there is no such thing as a 100% waterproof bag. Water always seems to find a way in. Therefore, I prefer a belt and suspenders approach. For anything that is critical to stay dry like clothes, sleeping bag, pad, etc., I put those items in a plastic bag. For small smaller items, ziplock's work well. For larger items, heavy duty trash compacter bags (which can be purchased at the grocery store) work well.
As a bike commuter in Seattle, I agree 100%. Even a perfectly engineered waterproof bag needs a way to put things in the bag, and then you introduce human error when closing up the bag.
Sil-nylon drybags inside a wp/wr pack is probably the best. Not everything needs to be protected, and for me....good old freezer bags work perfectly too for smaller things especially your cell phone, power bank cables etc. I have Ortlieb stuff (gravel packs, saddle bag, QR front, rack pack) and its all generally waterproof, but unless you roll it up properly w/o overstuffing it, there will be water ingress. The material itself is waterproof, just not the openings. The other side of this, and the reason why sil-nylon drybags and freezer bags are excellent is they're incredibly light, but also...and the most important, when you pack your gear, it allows you combine wet and dry items without everything just becoming damp. A good example of this is if you have to put away your tent wet (it's not recommended) but if you go to sleep in the rain and wake up in the rain.....its something you may need to do. And if you're using a saddle bag, chances are it's all going in the same place. So you can keep your dry stuff dry and let your wet stuff stay wet until you can dry it out. All of what I'm saying isn't exclusive to bikepacking, and has been strategies for backpacking and kayak-packing for years. It's just in the latest years with new technologies being applied to the market means new options, but good ol' drybags and freezer bags or garbage bags stull work great! Though I have to say that I have had garbage bags rip before leaving holes that only get bigger. It's a great solution, just not a durable one, and once the bag rips, into the garbage it goes. You'll get far more miles out of drybags and freezer bags in my experience.
Just like rain jackets that have a DWR finish, bikepacking bags with a DWR finish can be periodically refreshed, thereby renewing the water repellency of the outer layer. There are several products available to do this and numerous web pages dedicated to renewing and reviving a DWR.
I've found that rain covers such as REI's Ducks Back for backpacks work really well for covering bike bags. The cinching draw cord hugs the rain cover over your bag and doesn't take up very much room when not in use. They obviously won't help much if you ride your bike underwater, but I've had good results in hours of driving rain fwiw.
Great stuff, Neil! To be sure, the only truly possible way to keep gear completely protected from water is to keep it indoors. Everything will fail at some point; water will always find a way. But staying indoors is not an option for many of us. Thankfully, there are ways to minimize the risks of (at least essential) gear getting wet, smart packing included. P.s., bummed there are no BP Collective hats this round. Later in the year maybe? 😁
Itˋs not the X-ply layers that makes it waterproof. X51 has a 0,5mm PET backing wich makes it waterproof. X-Ply stripes just make it stronger and more tear resitant.
I feel like one big point missed in this conversation regarding seam welded vs. sewn bags is with regards to repairability. I find that in MOST applications people do not need a fully waterproof bag. Those bags are great but as soon as that zipper fails it goes into a landfill. Sewn bags may not be fully waterproof but with care they can last MUCH longer and can be repaired.
Im doing transalp next summer, and the trip lasts 7 days. We will be using hotels along the way, so no tents, sleeping bags etc. But a tshirt, liggtweight shoes, shorts would be nice… Can you make a video with What you recommend for this kind of bike packing…?
In my previous life I was taught, when it needs to stay dry wrap it 4 times in bags...(electronics) everything else you need it where water is an issue wrap it 3 . often spending more time than I needed in wet places
One maker that has 100% waterproof bags including the closure is Watershed Bags, a company that first made bags for whitewater kayakers and rafters. It was founded in 1995 (& still US-made) and has expanded their line for more users. The bags themselves are a RF-welded-seam urethane-coated fabric similar to what Ortlieb and others use, so are bomber-waterproof and fairly abrasion resistant. Watershed's difference is their "industrial-sized" urethane (?) zip-lock-type closure that is 100% water-tight even when when submerged (unlike roll-top closures which leak a little when submerged, even when properly closed) and has been US Navy-tested to 100 meters without leaking. Watershed bags are what I call "camera/electronics-grade waterproof" that are reliable protection for non-water-resistant cameras and electronics of most types. These likely are over-kill for most here, but for those doing a trip that will be mega-wet (monsoon season travel, remote coastal fat-bikepacking with swimming/packrafting river-mouth crossings, etc.), they might be just the thing. They have a number of 10l-22l size bags some may find suitable for rack-top or cradle usage: www.drybags.com/bags/waterproof-bags-and-packs/
I have used the Axiom copy of the Ortliebs (much cheaper), but they did develop holes on the bottom which let water in. I use Timbuktu BP bags, but have not had the misfortune to see if they are waterproof. I expect I will find out on the Tree to Sea route later on! Anyway for things that must stay dry, like a down bag, I use those plastic bags for string clothes that you suck all the air out of. They are completely waterproof and also compress things like 90%. On the trail without a vacuum, you can compress at least 70% by rolling them up. But I hope my Flextail Tiny pump can be used.
Truth. A few years back I went to Scotland and got rained on..... a lot. All of my water resistant bags were just that, resistant to a certain point. By the end of my trip, water was penetrating all of my bags. What a wonderful place to ride a bike however.
Waxed canvas is extremely underrated imo, i waxed a caraddice bag and it was moisture resistant in all but the Worst of days in the PNW and that was using it as a rear fender lmao
Twisting the ends of the ubiquitous plastic grocery bags you can't seem to get out of a resupply stop without one or two of, works in a pinch. Same for a Trashbg Poncho, but if you are worried about dryness of your gear, you are likely already wearing the improvised poncho.
Trash-compacter bags are waterproof. (Use those, or even small trashcan bags, as liners. 50 times, to offset their being disposable. Some are even made to break down [bio-degrade] when exposed to common soil chemicals in municipal compost yards.)
I use a Tundra case as a pannier (because, cameras anyway -- room for lotsa extras). A tundra case can survive mild white-water rapids with the contents safe and dry. Comparatively light at 10-15 % the weight of the gear inside. (I used to use Pelican cases, but none were actually large enough to hold my pelican -- even with its wings and beak strapped.) Got mine free when a feature-film production wrapped.
Having one of the bags be able to breathe some can be helpful if you have wet gear, clothing especially if your trying to get somewhere and don’t have time to yard sale on the side of the route your on….. , I like having ziplocks or plastic bags for the stuff that needs to stay dry
For good measure, I store what I can in a good quality zip lock bag within my Revelate Designs bags. So far so good.
As a whitewater rafter, I can tell you that there is no such thing as a 100% waterproof bag. Water always seems to find a way in. Therefore, I prefer a belt and suspenders approach. For anything that is critical to stay dry like clothes, sleeping bag, pad, etc., I put those items in a plastic bag. For small smaller items, ziplock's work well. For larger items, heavy duty trash compacter bags (which can be purchased at the grocery store) work well.
Tundra case as a pannier anyway. Because, cameras.
There's a saying in engineering "water always wins in the end."
As a bike commuter in Seattle, I agree 100%.
Even a perfectly engineered waterproof bag needs a way to put things in the bag, and then you introduce human error when closing up the bag.
SO true
Rig2flip
Sil-nylon drybags inside a wp/wr pack is probably the best. Not everything needs to be protected, and for me....good old freezer bags work perfectly too for smaller things especially your cell phone, power bank cables etc. I have Ortlieb stuff (gravel packs, saddle bag, QR front, rack pack) and its all generally waterproof, but unless you roll it up properly w/o overstuffing it, there will be water ingress. The material itself is waterproof, just not the openings.
The other side of this, and the reason why sil-nylon drybags and freezer bags are excellent is they're incredibly light, but also...and the most important, when you pack your gear, it allows you combine wet and dry items without everything just becoming damp. A good example of this is if you have to put away your tent wet (it's not recommended) but if you go to sleep in the rain and wake up in the rain.....its something you may need to do. And if you're using a saddle bag, chances are it's all going in the same place. So you can keep your dry stuff dry and let your wet stuff stay wet until you can dry it out.
All of what I'm saying isn't exclusive to bikepacking, and has been strategies for backpacking and kayak-packing for years. It's just in the latest years with new technologies being applied to the market means new options, but good ol' drybags and freezer bags or garbage bags stull work great! Though I have to say that I have had garbage bags rip before leaving holes that only get bigger. It's a great solution, just not a durable one, and once the bag rips, into the garbage it goes. You'll get far more miles out of drybags and freezer bags in my experience.
Just like rain jackets that have a DWR finish, bikepacking bags with a DWR finish can be periodically refreshed, thereby renewing the water repellency of the outer layer. There are several products available to do this and numerous web pages dedicated to renewing and reviving a DWR.
I've found that rain covers such as REI's Ducks Back for backpacks work really well for covering bike bags. The cinching draw cord hugs the rain cover over your bag and doesn't take up very much room when not in use. They obviously won't help much if you ride your bike underwater, but I've had good results in hours of driving rain fwiw.
Great stuff, Neil! To be sure, the only truly possible way to keep gear completely protected from water is to keep it indoors. Everything will fail at some point; water will always find a way. But staying indoors is not an option for many of us. Thankfully, there are ways to minimize the risks of (at least essential) gear getting wet, smart packing included. P.s., bummed there are no BP Collective hats this round. Later in the year maybe? 😁
Itˋs not the X-ply layers that makes it waterproof. X51 has a 0,5mm PET backing wich makes it waterproof. X-Ply stripes just make it stronger and more tear resitant.
I feel like one big point missed in this conversation regarding seam welded vs. sewn bags is with regards to repairability. I find that in MOST applications people do not need a fully waterproof bag. Those bags are great but as soon as that zipper fails it goes into a landfill. Sewn bags may not be fully waterproof but with care they can last MUCH longer and can be repaired.
Im doing transalp next summer, and the trip lasts 7 days. We will be using hotels along the way, so no tents, sleeping bags etc. But a tshirt, liggtweight shoes, shorts would be nice… Can you make a video with What you recommend for this kind of bike packing…?
In my previous life I was taught, when it needs to stay dry wrap it 4 times in bags...(electronics) everything else you need it where water is an issue wrap it 3 . often spending more time than I needed in wet places
Excellent. And very useful for me as we edge into summer - the wettest part of the year here in Asia.
Personally that porcelain rocket frame bag and waxed canvas is all i need for the rainy as hell PNW, waxed canvas is very underrated.
One maker that has 100% waterproof bags including the closure is Watershed Bags, a company that first made bags for whitewater kayakers and rafters. It was founded in 1995 (& still US-made) and has expanded their line for more users. The bags themselves are a RF-welded-seam urethane-coated fabric similar to what Ortlieb and others use, so are bomber-waterproof and fairly abrasion resistant. Watershed's difference is their "industrial-sized" urethane (?) zip-lock-type closure that is 100% water-tight even when when submerged (unlike roll-top closures which leak a little when submerged, even when properly closed) and has been US Navy-tested to 100 meters without leaking. Watershed bags are what I call "camera/electronics-grade waterproof" that are reliable protection for non-water-resistant cameras and electronics of most types. These likely are over-kill for most here, but for those doing a trip that will be mega-wet (monsoon season travel, remote coastal fat-bikepacking with swimming/packrafting river-mouth crossings, etc.), they might be just the thing. They have a number of 10l-22l size bags some may find suitable for rack-top or cradle usage: www.drybags.com/bags/waterproof-bags-and-packs/
I have used the Axiom copy of the Ortliebs (much cheaper), but they did develop holes on the bottom which let water in. I use Timbuktu BP bags, but have not had the misfortune to see if they are waterproof. I expect I will find out on the Tree to Sea route later on!
Anyway for things that must stay dry, like a down bag, I use those plastic bags for string clothes that you suck all the air out of. They are completely waterproof and also compress things like 90%. On the trail without a vacuum, you can compress at least 70% by rolling them up. But I hope my Flextail Tiny pump can be used.
Two week bikepacking in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland - Waterproof bags 100% required 🤔😁😁
Truth. A few years back I went to Scotland and got rained on..... a lot. All of my water resistant bags were just that, resistant to a certain point. By the end of my trip, water was penetrating all of my bags. What a wonderful place to ride a bike however.
Waxed canvas is extremely underrated imo, i waxed a caraddice bag and it was moisture resistant in all but the Worst of days in the PNW and that was using it as a rear fender lmao
Twisting the ends of the ubiquitous plastic grocery bags you can't seem to get out of a resupply stop without one or two of, works in a pinch. Same for a Trashbg Poncho, but if you are worried about dryness of your gear, you are likely already wearing the improvised poncho.
Ziplock and trash bags make any bag waterproof. 😎
Thank you, as always very infornative and well explained. 👍
To cut a long story short: skip to 8:21, just use a trash bag inside 😅
Rusjan custom fully waterproof bags for bike packing
Expect the Unexpected, somebody was on Rayado
All the bags on my bike are Ortlieb and I have no problem with water
🎉
Trash-compacter bags are waterproof. (Use those, or even small trashcan bags, as liners. 50 times, to offset their being disposable. Some are even made to break down [bio-degrade] when exposed to common soil chemicals in municipal compost yards.)
I use a Tundra case as a pannier (because, cameras anyway -- room for lotsa extras). A tundra case can survive mild white-water rapids with the contents safe and dry. Comparatively light at 10-15 % the weight of the gear inside. (I used to use Pelican cases, but none were actually large enough to hold my pelican -- even with its wings and beak strapped.) Got mine free when a feature-film production wrapped.
Having one of the bags be able to breathe some can be helpful if you have wet gear, clothing especially if your trying to get somewhere and don’t have time to yard sale on the side of the route your on….. , I like having ziplocks or plastic bags for the stuff that needs to stay dry
Lomo bags are waterproof as they're made in Scotland where it rains rather a lot🌧️☔😅
Every bag is waterproof if you put it’s content in a big plastic bag first.
A robust bag with a roll-top dry bag.