Chemical engineer here. I worked at an aluminium smelter beside the water desalination plant in UAE. First of all, efficiency of all desalination methods is approaching thermodynamic limits. The biggest problem with any separation method is that you have to work against entropy of mixing which is very high (imagine how much effort it takes sort out M&Ms by colour but we have to sort out molecules). So the choice between thermal/membrane method is largerly driven by required scale: large scale favours huge thermal separtors, small scale is better with membranes. The biggest problem with water in GCC countries - is it's exessive demand for maintaining golf courses, open swimming pools, artificial lakes and forests. While this is a lifestyle choice and we can't solve this issue with engineering methods, there are potential areas for improvement. For example, sewage systems and wastewater treatment systems are very primitive. The best potential solution for water issues might be improved collection and recycling of waste water.
Since so much water is used for agriculture, switching to saltwater marsh farming could save quite a bit of water in all those nations. As for the golf courses & artificial lakes & forests; they would really benefit from using ancient permaculture techniques to infill more water and shade the ground without waste. You said sewage systems are primitive. They should be bulletproof. Every drop matters. You'd think they'd be obsessed with water conservation. Have they not read or seen Dune? I live among the largest freshwater supply on Earth (Great Lakes) and we try to value those water resources.
Just making sure my message went through. We are not dealing with a technological problem, it's a political one. 'Imagine No Corruption' - Great J. Lennon the first
I studied for a time under Doctor Tzahi Cath, who researched membrane processes for water and wastewater treatment application. When speaking about desalination, he always made it clear to indicate that we were near the physical limits of efficiency when it came to current technology, and that concepts like low energy desalination "is not something that nature likes." Desalination does have clear use cases outside of freshwater treatment; specifically, industrial wastewater treatment, where membrane desalination processes become cost effective when compared to other methods for removing specific hard to break down chemicals from waste process streams. It these more limited, specialist applications where desalination gets its legs. To be clear, at least from people researching at the edge of the field, no one is anticipating some breakthrough that transforms the economics around this treatment tool.
@@kapilchhabria1727 To be frank, I have nothing good on the subject outside of my course materials. ua-cam.com/video/v6ZMuLTXbqQ/v-deo.html This video demonstrates how reverse osmosis works on a microscale level, and you can get a sense for why this is a process that has physical limits.
Tzahi Cath is a theoretical guy, he can show the kids in school what the goals are, the benefits and disadvantages. He does not have the solution himself, he hopes he students will bring the solution ! Any progress ?
the real breakthrough will be a massive reduction in the cost of energy. If the cost of energy reduces 10x then desalination suddenly becomes economically viable for anywhere with access to salt water.
If people want to live there, it costs what it costs. When the costs become unsustainable, people will have to leave or die, it's all very existential. There's absolutely no point waving environmental concerns, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia doesn't care. If the water stops there is no Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
🚩Dude, Brine now is the true treasure 👊 It contain many valuable metals that their price has skyrocketed lately; like lithium, copper, magnesium & zinc. Plus, it contains rare earth metals like Vanadium, Gallium, & Molybdenum which r used in fusion experiments & high-tech industries.
@@duran9664 yes we have to rethink our waste products, they are secondary source of minerals once the waste is refined. which it would be refined. because theres so much of it and somewhat toxic. i'm sure someone would love paid to dispose of scrap brine. Billions are being spent on every end of the supply chain. these things take time.
Tbh, they are doing a lot to try and fix their problem. Its not line they're destroying someone else's shoreline.Its their own afterall.This shoreline can be used to attract more tourist and more money
I'm from Saudi Arabia , and everything consume at leas 2X amount of water because of heat and sun its 48C here (118.4 Fahrenheit) I drink around 2 liter per day and if you are working outside you need to drink 4 liter per day . its normal to consume more water in a hot place
You guys could use this to reforestation program, specially in the Hijaz region, since it's fertile, turning the desert to a tropic is way less stressful than letting this madness desalination
Bruh they are in the middle of a desert but won't use solar panels to heat up the water smh EDIT: These comments also smh for the most part xD We need asianometry vids on the current state of solar & battery storage tech and also on solar thermal potential applications urgently ! Some people still seem to think its the 1970s (When those MSF plants were built coincidentally) it's appalling...
Desalination is also a potent cure for the energy storage problems solar has, no need to store energy in batteries when the sun is brightest when you can just do all your desalination then and store the water indefinitely.
That would drive solar panel production and drive down costs and spur technology development. They’re not using renewables for anything ever, bandit kings that they are.
@@liledw13 Nice, direct energy transfer. No need to maintain solar panels, far simpler setup. Also, if the refractor gets dirty, you can just wash it in seawater.
Why would they use solar when they have more oil than they can sell without lowering the global prices? Solar is much less efficient than nuclear, it's not really profitable anywhere without subsidies.
Nuclear is the ideal way to do desalination, zero carbon, 24/7, and you're processing large amounts of water for cooling anyway so you get it basically for free.
Not to mention the reactive elements found in seawater that we could be using to fuel the facility after refinement. The obviousness of nuclear always seems to get upended by the politics however
@@Frostbytedigital And while you're at it with a high temp reactor you can extract the CO2 and use it to create synthetic fuels for carbon neutral transportation. There are endless possibilities which somehow have yet to make it on to policy maker's radars.
Seriously! I just commented basically the same thing as your comment did. I don't get why it's not happening yet? We are so far behind where we should be that it frustrates me beyond belief. IMO this should be clear: The fact that Desalination is so energy intensive but fresh water is so important.. What If we dedicated nuclear energy to be the main energy option to run these energy hungry desalination plants?? Idk why we aren't already doing this anywhere we could...? Seriously think about it.. Nuclear power produces no green house gas emissions. It's extremely energy efficient. The list goes on. So why are we not utilizing this... We are being extremely too slow, too reserved, too cautious, too inactive to even make the smallest dent into our climate issue and our energy issues. It's holding back progression across the board in many different area's.. It's honestly getting really frustrating. I thought we would be more motivated than this. More active than this....?
Let me get this straight: The Arabs are having trouble getting at *heat*, of all things. Not even temperature differentials, but plain heat as long as it's above 100C. Or, differently put, is there an actually good reason why they're not using solar-thermal.
Notice how in most of the facilities pictures every horizontal surface looks brown? That is dust. So keeping solar concentrators clean in a desert is a problem. Also they don't work at night, so you lose half of your production capacity.
@@tee2567Damn, you people are so stupid. Think before speaking & if youre ignorant of a topic then dont lash out with your "genius idea" and disregard the "current status" instead ask why the current idea is being used not yours. And dont stop at the first racist answer
@@tee2567you can also use dirt to clean dirt off of solar panels but why do that when you can boost the price of oil with every large addition to demand so that at least on paper you get a big rebate on your desal plant?
Ive worked in the commissioning at the Jebel Ali facility’s in the past. It is extremely big. These countries need power and water in that combination MSR really makes sense. Heat would be wasted anyway in steam turbine condensors.
desalination seems like good use-case for dumping excess solar power. this allows you to over-build solar farms so that even cloudy days can meet 100% of electricity need. water is great at being stored in reservoirs, so it makes for easy "energy" storage. though, limiting population growth in resource limited areas is probably for the best, but that's not something easy for a government or group of outside countries to sell to a local population.
I am amazed that no one is talking about out how much water is used to process oil into gasoline. From what I understand it is about two gallons of water for each gallon of gas. Our local RO plant in Los Angeles sends 60% of what they process into ultra pure water to the petroleum refineries. How much of that water in the Middle East is for the oil industry?
probably should switch the refineries to grey water. That is the water that comes out of the wastewater plants, Industrial process is an idea first use for recycled water. A city is not the ISS and the residents are not yet ready for recycled water(that is looping the wastewater back into the drinking water plant's inlet pipe). But a factory wont care, the gasoline making machine or a data center just needs water in general, So send em the water that the wastewater plant would just dump into the ocean.
A US company called Capture6 is working on a method to use the waste brine from desalination for a carbon dioxide capture and mineralization process. They're getting government funding to build pilot plants in Australia, South Korea, and California, but it'll be several years before any of these plants can demonstrate if the technology is feasible.
@@manyulgarprsch Some kind of calcium carbonate I think. I've heard of a few universities which demonstrated that it could be blended into concrete or plaster, but even if you just buried it, the carbon dioxide would be stable in that form.
8:08 the irony is that desalination is so focused on efficiency, but any time fresh water is found efficiency goes out the window😮 We all must be efficient when no one is looking!
Till now, water has been mostly free or very highly subsidized in Saudi Arabia, UAE, and other ME oil rich nations. The idea of a government provided service being non-subsidized and breaking even is unacceptable in the region, as citizens don't revolt as long as they are kept rich with plushy useless jobs in the public sector and services are provided at dirt cheap prices. Rather than invoke fury and revolt among citizens, Saudis, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE - all have chosen to privatize their water industry, with only government oversight to regulate profiteering. The problem is that these MSF plants are so damn expensive, that the water prices will shoot upto around $8/1000 gallons, assuming that the private players would have to buy energy at market prices. That is the landed price to customers. Another project silently undergoing is inviting renewable energy companies to partner with RO desalination private players (predominantly Israeli or using Israeli origin technology) but it faces two issues - lack of diplomatic ties with Israel and the surrounding waters in ME where the sites would be optimal have been polluted beyond repair in terms of increasing salinity and massive amounts of chemicals and heavy metals (which are present in cleaning chemicals). That can be repaired by changing the membranes somewhat and having additional pre-treatment, and this is one of the reasons that UAE has made diplomatic relations with Israel and Saudi is wanting too, all thrown off by the Hamas. Qatar is on the fence as the Qatari royal family is kind of a fundamental wahabi supporter and believer, but Qatar if it continues this will face massive backlash with Trump reportedly willing to remove the massive US base away from Qatar. The other factor in play is American oil and gas pumping. Europe wants more gas and ME had a market cornered but then US strikes back with massive LNG facilities and the ability to pump out enough gas to meet Europe's demand. At a cheaper price, as American natural gas is surprisingly cheaper, due to domestic cheap prices. Middle Eastern countries can no longer afford to continue subsidizing everything for its citizens as it as causing dents in their budgets. Another reason, ME governments want to get out of water desalination and privatize it. This isn't only about water, but - about water, geopolitics, and economics.
It blows my mind that they had water for free. I only heard about it when talking to a Saudi in Germany and he mentioned his parents installing a pool (in SA). I was like "Yeah but even in SW Australia the evaporation means the upkeep is pricey" "we don't pay for water in SA" WTF, like WTF.
With the exorbitant luxury spending that the rulers (including extended families) and government officials spend I can understand why the people of those countries demand these essential free stuff.
Saudi Arabia is not your friendly Nation. Only some people can benefit from the oil lords, change is needed badly. Religious freaks in power, Allah is evil.
A story i heard in KSA in early 90s. Corrosion expert called into the plant up near Ras Tanura over severe corrosion problem. Turns out they located the brine discharge rigjr next to the Gulf water intake. Duh.
As the need for need for water increases I wonder if Solar Domes for Desalination are going to become more common due to their efficiency and low cost closer to the equator. After all Desalination is an energy intensive process, using the heat of the sun in the simplest form of Desalination, would definitely be an interesting possibility.
As someone who grew up in Bahrain, the scaling on taps was still bad and the water was still slightly salty despite the distillation. Of course, I was last in Bahrain in 2002, so maybe things have improved since.
@@gmu3134every country can actually have nuclear power… They have to promise not to use it for nefarious means among other things. It’s the cost associated with it that’s a deterrent.
Their mistake is fighting against the ocean and salt water. A project in Spain is using halophytes, or salt-tolerant crops, to form saltwater marshes. The tech is simple - canals & gates. The harvest of biomass is 3x what land crops produce. The plants are edible and also make amazing skincare & cosmetics. The marshes also produce animal protein in the form of crabs, shellfish, fish, and frogs, as well as being a habitat for flamingos. The Middle East has all the sun & ocean water they could ever want for. They need to start planting their coastlines with saltwater marshes. It's hard to believe this hasn't been tried.
@@mukkaar Those nations use 80% of their water supply for freshwater crops. If they stop using their freshwater for crops, and use salt water farming instead, they will use less water.
Imagine when they finally run dry of their oil production (which allows them to run such huge and energy-intensive desalination plants): with such a huge population (relative to their water supply), you would witness one of the biggest humanitarian crises the world will ever see.
No way it will drag on that long. Within three to five years, it will become apparent, that CO2 reduction is possible, and largely solved. Then the remaining heavy users of fossil fuels will face planetary scrutiny. And demands to transition to solar immediately!
Theres not necessarily an event where the oil will just stop running. I imagine the humanitarian disasters will come even before they stop deciding to siphen the reservoirs empty due to earthquakes and sinkholes.
I suppose they can dig a hole and pump all their brine there, and evaporate them into some kind of a dead sea mineral pond... Surely there's lots of stuff in seawater that can now be extracted.
14:34 I remember at COP28 that one of the UAE desal plants had an exhibit, and I asked them what they do with all that brine. Apparently there's a substantial market for hypersaline seawater. For what exactly the buyers don't reveal, but the plant reps say sometimes upwards of like 80% of their wastewater gets sold and trucked away.
hm. I remember a video item years ago of an experimental low tech setup somewhere in northern Africa (I think it was Tunisia but I'm not sure). They built greenhouses with a brick wall facing the prevailing sea wind, and the bricks were made with little horizontal holes running through them all over. The moist air would flow in, containing enough water to sustain the plants in and even around the greenhouses. Salt would accumulate on the brick of course, but could apparently be removed easily enough and used as a cheap building material (I guess the benefit of a very arid environment is that you can build a house out of compacted salt "bricks"). The plan was to build these structures in large enough numbers to de-desertify a part of the northern Sahara, giving people access to locally and sustainably produced water and food. I have no idea what happened with that idea. It's obviously a much slower and more labor-intensive way to go about it, but it strikes me as much more robust long-term. Given the gulf states' high tech fetish though any plan like that might be DOA.
You can use brime for cement, that will absorb CO2 from atmosphere, trials in saudi at the moment In Dubai, the water is first sent to people, then treated and used in agriculture and landscaping
Seawater evaporation ponds work for cleaning salt outdoors, in the dirt, because the growing salt crystals will naturally exclude nearly all things that don't fit right in the crystal lattice. When you harvest the wet crystals from the ponds, they may have a concentrated level of contaminants in the spent liquor that clings to the wet crystals, but this is why there is a plant for "washing" the salt. Normally, purification by crystallization is way overkill for food grade products. It just happens to be one of the easiest ways to get brilliant white salt crystals from muddy seawater.
...also, when describing energy inputs, you can't ignore how many solar panels the mere interest on those petrodollar reserves will pay for. It's only a matter of time. Solar is renewable, gas and oil is not.
What you're missing out is that in Saudi Arabia, companies like Marafiq use a hybrid plant where steam is used to also generate electricity. Thus, the problem you're mentioning isn't really a problem if the heat isn't being wasted.
Was recently rewatching up the nuclear desalination video . There’s discussion of Arizona having a desalination plant at the sea of Cortez and unlike the west coast it has no clear outflow, meaning salinity will build up there over time.
The problem will fix itself. Saudi Arabia, for example, is throwing money at any big touristy project which will make their economy less reliant on oil. However, once the oil dries up, nobody will want to go to a desert for vacation. The GCC countries will revert back to escorting camels around the desert and water demand will plummet.
Other than leaving out what will no doubt be an unpleasant body count, yeah, I can't see how it goes anyway but this. They've spent so much on this that and the other to diversify/change/etc...,but they just can't stop being what they've been.
Would be cool if you could look in to fish farming. Living in the isle of Skye in the western Highlands of Scotland, the industry is ubiquitous and not without controversy.
I've probably said this before, but I appreciate how your videos are information-rich and easy to understand without unnecessary frills to make it more "engaging"
I have an idea for affordable solar agricultural-scale desalination and water transport. This is a high volume continuous process, based on driving turbines with concentrated solar energy. Consider a jet engine: there are compressor stages that pull air in, then a combustor in which the compressed air is mixed with jet fuel and burned, increasing its pressure, then expansion stages that extract some of the kinetic energy from the heated air to drive the compressor and do mechanical work. A steam turbine has similar compression and expansion stages, but instead of a combustor the steam is heated by some external fuel source, e.g. coal. The heat from the burning coal is transferred to the steam in a heat exchanger. I suggest A) using a large field of solar mirrors as the heat source, and B) configuring the expansion stages to leave as much kinetic energy in the compressed steam as possible. Instead of driving a locomotive or generator, the turbine's work goes into moving the steam itself. In this way, large volumes of fresh water can be pumped from one location to another (after initially boiling the water, again with concentrated sunlight). For desalination, imagine that the hot, high pressure steam coming from one of these turbines is travelling along a pipe. If seawater is injected into the steam, the water flashes to steam and we have a flow of cooler, lower pressure steam carrying suspended salt crystals. Removing the crystals is a mechanical process that can be achieved with, e.g., a vortical extractor. Some of the purified steam can be re-heated and routed back to before the brine injector for continuous operation. The major selling point of this process is that it can be scaled up to large capacities. Near the equator, a gigawatt worth of sunlight arrives per square kilometre. Given a desalination plant near a coastline, one might build a solar turbine-based pumping station every few kilometres along a pipeline carrying steam into the interior of a continent. At the destination the steam can be condensed back to water, perhaps doing useful work in the process.
This is the most obvious solution.... Spray a million gallons a day of brine into the air in the middle of nowhere and you get instant salt flats as well as temperature reduction and humidity increase (for downwind agriculture) . Any brine that makes it to the ground will be filtered by the sand so that by the time it hits the water table, if it ever makes it, it will be as fresh as a mountain stream.
It's a pity we don't use some simple nuclear option for this. At the very least to pre-heat the water or something. Should be rather trivial to build, could use low-grade nuclear fuel and feels like it could be deployed in something like a sealed container.
Boiling water reactor? Guess what else are boiling water reactors? Chernobyl and Fukushima Also, that's basically putting more nuclear materials into the vicinity of several most politically unstable regions.
Glad that you mentioned the national security question at the end. John Dolan, aka "the war nerd" is always talking about the impossibility of war between the Saudis and Iranians because just after some quick ballistic missiles the Saudis would be struggling for water.
This is actually a really good reason why we should be investing in nuclear power plants because get a couple of those running and you'd have all the fresh water you need for a while
The issue is per kilowatt hour nuclear is far more expensive Of course the calculus looks different when you consider emissions and other cost not reflected in the price tag but thats not how the world works sadly I'm bullish on nuclewr fusion eventually working out in part because we're kinda screwed if we can't find an overabudant source of clean energy
@@randomchannel-px6honuclear lasts 80 years, it's more expensive the first 10-20 years of operation but then old nuclear turns into a money printer. Where is the whole mindset that father seeds a tree so his grandson can benefit from the grown tree?
if you price in the grid stability batteries and ecological damages, nuclear is not that more expansive, arguably one of the cheapest. and even whitout pricing that in is still a magnitude cheaper than fossil fuels.
This stuff is the perfect usecase for things like Solar or Wind. If you have too many of them, they produce insane amounts of energy that get wasted cuz no one needs that much at peak times, so you can use it to create fresh water for relatively cheap. With some big water tanks you can also store the fresh water over night/low energy times
Allah is Oil, that's how these warlords keep their power ! With water, they show the same friedyness ! Dessert people are weirdo people, why there freaks ?
@@MrFateTube In the case of Israel this isn't overproduction, but rather a way of economically maintaining strategic production reserves, in case the water levels in the Sea of Galilee aren't sufficient for drinking water extraction.
I visited the Red Sea a few years ago. The levels are rapidly dropping and the sea will probably cease to exist in 80 years. Not to mantion the rising salt levels. It's funny because there are two contrasting things at play: the desalination plants dumping brine and the salt processing plants that just evaporate water into the air. The countries there are all fighting each other for water and shorting the other guys, while cooperation would clearly benefit everyone instead, like the prisoner's dilema.
The Red Sea is not an inland sea. It’s connected to the Indian Ocean in the South and the Mediterranean Sea (via the Suez Canal) in the North. As such, there’s no chance of it disappearing.
One of the largest desalination plants in north. America is where I live in Ensenada Baja CA, Mexico. Many many many other small R.O. purification plants in nearly every neighborhood working with high salinity well water. They make outstanding quality live water. + High alkaline water. City or trucked water is nasty filthy stuff. Only for washing. Use borax, soda & vinegar in your laundry as it’s insanely hard. There are also many thermal springs. Still water is scarce and in shortage in many areas.
Those oil rich countries need the labor to build their skyscrapers, and then keep them clean. When the oil money dries up, I don't wan to be anywhere near that "political fallout" !
Why would they do that when we pay them so handsomely so we can all drive to work, alone? All they're doing is turning something they have too much of, into something they don't have enough of.
Ras AL Khair, Saudi Arabia is the world's largest desalination plant with a capacity of 2,998,000 m3/day. It is also recorded in Guinesses World Records.
In the Middle East, fresh clean potable water to WHO standards are more precious than oil. It should not be given free to the public but charged at a cost plus price for them to appreciate it's value.
Water will boil at room temperature if put in a vacuum at 1/40th of normal atmospheric pressure. Why not just pump the air (and room temperature steam) out with a vacuum pump instead of heating the water up to 93 degrees C or pumping water at high pressures through reverse osmosis membranes? It seems that pumping air out with a vacuum pump would be more energy efficient than heating the water up to boiling temperature or pumping water at high pressure. The leftover brine would also be at room temperature rather than at 93 degrees C. I remember seeing water boil with a vacuum pump as a science experiment in junior high school. Has anybody explored the cost basis for extracting distilled water this way? You should look into this as your next topic.
@@simonedaniel I read that, and thought "yeah, that's what I said, and had to re-read my original comment, and realized I've heard it said both ways." Gonna look it up. It's definitely NOT "pan ass ey uh" tho hahaha e: you were right! Shut down the internet!
Worked at a vacuum salt pan plant once, the MSF plant looks exactly like that except a salt mill intends to grow salt crystals. washing was a hell of an operation, they would flood the pans with HCL then wash it out. you didn't go into the pan area when they washed, the floor was flooded to neutralize drips and the machinery was all full of HCL
Israel (who also uses a lot of desalination) has a big advantage on the brine disposal front as they just dump it into the dead sea (refelling it in the process).
The main problem is failure to complete the process and partition the solute into valuable products like salt, manganese, gold, and other metals & chemicals. This requires more power. The most promising option is large concentrating solar power stations placed nearby.
1:15 average household, 2+2 model, uses 113 M3 per annum. What the heck is the problem here? If country has 30+ per capita, on average, WTF are you or them complaining about? Gulf area should not be allowed to govern itself. 🤮 Let them dry.
@@nikolatasev4948 yeah cause these are the major consumers of water in the entire country. What are you talking about. Plus I'm sure newer plants are built to the new standards and are more energy efficient, you can't simply nuke the biggest desalination plants in the planet.
In the case of the Gulf States maybe don't import millions of slav-, I mean "migratory workers, " to the point where your population has increased by 5x in 50 years.
All Saudis should migrate to a country which can sustain their population. A country with farmland and water which can turn into bread and vegetables for them to eat. The desert is overpopulated, and the only jobs which exist there are related to the unsustainable oil industry.
Growing crops in places with neither precipitation nor downhill from somewhere with precipitation is a facet of man's hubris that is clearly unsustainable long term. I hope that with green energy, these countries downsize significantly.
There's a good reason populations in harsh deserts were historically limited. Oh the old endless growth on a finite planet. What a brilliant concept. Our time is growing short.
How would they get their food instead? Food independence is important in a geopolitically unstable region such as the middle-east. So they can't just rely on imports for their food supplies.
That's what I'm thinking. As an Iraqi, I'm thinking the Saudi population is going to cause a strain on resources. Unlike Iraq, Saudi doesn't have enough farmland to sustain its population, because it doesn't have rivers.
I'm pretty sure it's because historically those places did get enough water from the groundwater to sustain their population and population growth. And if they didn't, the places just disappear.
Allowed? Are you going to control free people and tell them where they are permitted to live? While you are on a tyrannical power trip you should go to china and order them to stop using coal, immediately.
@@jatpack3 Nature has always taken care of infestations, Disease, famine and drought have always worked in the past to reduce the size of an infestation.
My dad worked at an RO Desalination plant on the All American Canal in his final years. It was a neat place, mix of old and modern tech because it was shuttered for decades after being built initially in the 80's. Kind of a folly as far as the investment goes, but still a cool facility.
If efficiency a concern, wouldn't it be a better idea to stop doing agriculture in a desert and instead import agricultural products from countries with more suitable climate? Two thirds of the water usage in Saudi Arabia is for agriculture. Seems to me an example of agricultural protectionism at its worst. If food security is a concern, stockpiling non-perishables is an option, plus there is a large number of agricultural exporters around the world, so one can diversify. Economies of the Gulf countries will collapse without trade anyway due to their dependency on exports.
Domestic agriculture also serves as a jobs program, as well as security concerns about domestic production. The Saudis also have no shortage of money to blow.
Yes, there were bad calls historically to provide water for farmers for food security in the 90s onward, and now the government realizes the wasted water being used. They stopped wheat and some agriculture products that require a lot of water
Food and water security from the Gulf War impacted a lot of decisions. So right now, the job is to lower down water consumption and make these desalination plants more efficient and produce power
@@Nope_handlesaretrash All these problems of water and work opportunities can be solved in one way: migration. Iran's population has a below replacement fertility rate. People saying Turkey is also having an aging population. That's where we'll put the Saudis. Hopefully Saudis as a diaspora will be less troublesome than the current Saudi state which causes so much instability.
@@divra11I was confused at first so I looked at the video title to see if there was some context that would make this comment make sense as a joke, if I imagine the title being read by a crazed lunatic with a gun in a standoff with a cop and imagine that the desalination plant is something that the crazed lunatic with the gun wanted to destroy then this comment would make sense as a response to the title, and that makes me laugh so I liked the comment, I have no clue if that's how the OP meant it though lol
@@divra11That's 100% a bot. Look at his name, it's the first words of the video title. Also, the account was created today. Not sure what the end-goal is though.
I really enjoy your channel for scientific and factful contents. The body of water you are mentioning in this video is called Persian Gulf. Thank you so much
Regarding decentralization, I wonder what a water system would look like that distributed purified (not desalinated) seawater and tasked each household with desalinating it with their own home RO system.
Solar energy has greatly decreased in cost over the last decade. Solar is now cheaper that fossil fuel energy to source (vs. oil, natural gas). As Asianometry suggests near the end of the video, a more distributed smaller scale regionalized desalination is needed (for sustainability and for national security reasons). The lower cost of solar may make it economical to treat and recycle the brine to some degree. Metals and other elements, would have value. This would however require drying the salts to make them usable for extraction, which requires additional energy. Given the scale, it may be possible to have ponds of bio organisms, halophiles that can utilize the salts to produce useful compounds.
9:28. MSF is still the best option for GCC because they use waste energy rejected from the power plants. The energy used is almost free. RO main problem is its need to mechanical energy.
I think a good move might be from multi-stage flash to multi-stage vacuum membrane distillation. The ratio of fresh water to brine isn't as high, but it has much less scale buildup and somewhat lower energy consumption while retaining almost all the other advantages of multi-stage flash, including reliability. For reverse osmosis, there are still some gains to be had by switching to a batch process because then you can increase the pressure as the brine concentrates instead of running it all through the filter at constant pressure. I'm pretty sure it saves about 30% of the energy. There's probably a way to set that up as a multi-stage continuous process, but the research work I saw was all on batch processing.
People in the Gulf region consume vast amounts of water for drinking and household use, ranking among the highest in the world. This high consumption is largely due to the extreme heat that defines the climate in these countries. While someone in Europe might go several days without needing a shower because of the cooler weather, a person in the Gulf might need to shower twice a day during the summer due to the intense heat. Furthermore, agriculture in the region relies heavily on desalinated, groundwater, or treated water because of the scarcity of rainfall, surface water, and the high evaporation rates caused by the extreme temperatures. In essence, life in the Gulf is somewhat akin to life on Mars!
I would assume that in the future we will find more and more ways what to do with the brine. Instead treating it as wastage, filtering out minerals/metals and any scrap of hydrogen still in it. I think it was last year when a news broke from MIT that had found a few new filtering methods to economivly extract a few more substances from brine.
Chemical engineer here. I worked at an aluminium smelter beside the water desalination plant in UAE.
First of all, efficiency of all desalination methods is approaching thermodynamic limits. The biggest problem with any separation method is that you have to work against entropy of mixing which is very high (imagine how much effort it takes sort out M&Ms by colour but we have to sort out molecules). So the choice between thermal/membrane method is largerly driven by required scale: large scale favours huge thermal separtors, small scale is better with membranes.
The biggest problem with water in GCC countries - is it's exessive demand for maintaining golf courses, open swimming pools, artificial lakes and forests. While this is a lifestyle choice and we can't solve this issue with engineering methods, there are potential areas for improvement. For example, sewage systems and wastewater treatment systems are very primitive. The best potential solution for water issues might be improved collection and recycling of waste water.
Ok nerd
@@homuraakemi493 Ok Internet Virgin
Since so much water is used for agriculture, switching to saltwater marsh farming could save quite a bit of water in all those nations. As for the golf courses & artificial lakes & forests; they would really benefit from using ancient permaculture techniques to infill more water and shade the ground without waste. You said sewage systems are primitive. They should be bulletproof. Every drop matters. You'd think they'd be obsessed with water conservation. Have they not read or seen Dune? I live among the largest freshwater supply on Earth (Great Lakes) and we try to value those water resources.
ditch the swimming pools and go for man made sea side pools -- with sea water, save the desalination effort lol
Just making sure my message went through. We are not dealing with a technological problem, it's a political one.
'Imagine No Corruption'
- Great J. Lennon the first
9:00 Sponge balls, square plants. Got it.
I ain't laughing, but I got it.
Liar! 😂
@@elitearbor Bikini Button!
Why😅
I laughed like an idiot. Haha, he said the funny thing 😅😅😅
@@quint3ssent1a Fkc my English is not that well. Could you explain pls
I studied for a time under Doctor Tzahi Cath, who researched membrane processes for water and wastewater treatment application. When speaking about desalination, he always made it clear to indicate that we were near the physical limits of efficiency when it came to current technology, and that concepts like low energy desalination "is not something that nature likes." Desalination does have clear use cases outside of freshwater treatment; specifically, industrial wastewater treatment, where membrane desalination processes become cost effective when compared to other methods for removing specific hard to break down chemicals from waste process streams. It these more limited, specialist applications where desalination gets its legs. To be clear, at least from people researching at the edge of the field, no one is anticipating some breakthrough that transforms the economics around this treatment tool.
Could you post some literature for curious minds to read?
Damn
@@kapilchhabria1727 To be frank, I have nothing good on the subject outside of my course materials. ua-cam.com/video/v6ZMuLTXbqQ/v-deo.html This video demonstrates how reverse osmosis works on a microscale level, and you can get a sense for why this is a process that has physical limits.
Tzahi Cath is a theoretical guy, he can show the kids in school what the goals are, the benefits and disadvantages.
He does not have the solution himself, he hopes he students will bring the solution !
Any progress ?
the real breakthrough will be a massive reduction in the cost of energy. If the cost of energy reduces 10x then desalination suddenly becomes economically viable for anywhere with access to salt water.
7:20 Confirming that is how you represent Steam scientifically.
I came right to the comments to see if anyone else noticed. Was not disappointed!
Just gotta say, I laughed at the steam Icon in the MSF diagram.
I loved this also 🤣
Also
Spongeballs SquarePants
I was cracking up too.
google search first hit
Jeje😅
If people want to live there, it costs what it costs. When the costs become unsustainable, people will have to leave or die, it's all very existential. There's absolutely no point waving environmental concerns, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia doesn't care. If the water stops there is no Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Yep pretty simple.
And at the moment it is powered by our desire for oil. As long as that is what we need. We have this in the middle east.
🚩Dude, Brine now is the true treasure 👊 It contain many valuable metals that their price has skyrocketed lately; like lithium, copper, magnesium & zinc. Plus, it contains rare earth metals like Vanadium, Gallium, & Molybdenum which r used in fusion experiments & high-tech industries.
@@duran9664 yes we have to rethink our waste products, they are secondary source of minerals once the waste is refined. which it would be refined. because theres so much of it and somewhat toxic. i'm sure someone would love paid to dispose of scrap brine. Billions are being spent on every end of the supply chain. these things take time.
Tbh, they are doing a lot to try and fix their problem.
Its not line they're destroying someone else's shoreline.Its their own afterall.This shoreline can be used to attract more tourist and more money
They burn oil to get fresh water.
Thank Heaven they're switching to burning natural gas!
bu hu, while the rest of developed world uses way to much water than they actualy need.
yep, which is causing the earth to warm so they need to burn more oil for a/c and more water
@@lukasalej5710how does the rest of the world use way to much water
@@Bell_plejdo568pfront lawns. Golf courses
🎶 Who lives in a desalinator next to the sea? 🎶
🎶 Sponge Ball Square Plants! 🎶
9:03 Who lives in a pineapple under the steam?
SpongeBalls SquarePlants!
I'm from Saudi Arabia , and everything consume at leas 2X amount of water because of heat and sun its 48C here (118.4 Fahrenheit) I drink around 2 liter per day and if you are working outside you need to drink 4 liter per day . its normal to consume more water in a hot place
You guys could use this to reforestation program, specially in the Hijaz region, since it's fertile, turning the desert to a tropic is way less stressful than letting this madness desalination
You should always drink 3-5 liters per day even without the work.
@@ethandouro4334That takes agriculture-scale water. More since your goal is more acreage.
@@richardarriaga6271 I meant more like to create parks, like Tunisia did
Treated waste water from the cities are used to water plants in parks and agriculture
Water > No water. Nuclear powered desalination > Fossil fueled desalination
Who in their right mind is going to give or allow a Gulf State to possess fissile materials?
@@umaikakudo South Korea. They built nuclear power plants in Abu Dhabi.
Check your political views at the door?
Now you only have to store the depleted uranium for the next 250 million years. Earth’s end is coming for humans
Nuclear powered desalination < renewable powered desalination.
It's in the desert. Wind and sun are abundant.
Dead Sea brine is processed for fertilizer, you can see it from space covering the south end of the sea.
No kiss tonight honey, you're wearing a Dead Sea facial mask.
Salt makes GREAT fertilizer 😂😂❤❤
Did you know that you can use old motor oil to fertilize your lawn?
@@BracaPhoto Yes, salting the enemies earth was a famous economic kickstarter. Like an ancient Marshal plan.
Very different process from RED SEA distillation process brine...
Bruh they are in the middle of a desert but won't use solar panels to heat up the water smh
EDIT: These comments also smh for the most part xD
We need asianometry vids on the current state of solar & battery storage tech and also on solar thermal potential applications urgently ! Some people still seem to think its the 1970s (When those MSF plants were built coincidentally) it's appalling...
Desalination is also a potent cure for the energy storage problems solar has, no need to store energy in batteries when the sun is brightest when you can just do all your desalination then and store the water indefinitely.
Even better would be a large scale solar reflector.
Focusing a large area of solar energy into a single point would heat up water faster.
That would drive solar panel production and drive down costs and spur technology development. They’re not using renewables for anything ever, bandit kings that they are.
@@liledw13 Nice, direct energy transfer. No need to maintain solar panels, far simpler setup. Also, if the refractor gets dirty, you can just wash it in seawater.
Why would they use solar when they have more oil than they can sell without lowering the global prices? Solar is much less efficient than nuclear, it's not really profitable anywhere without subsidies.
Nuclear is the ideal way to do desalination, zero carbon, 24/7, and you're processing large amounts of water for cooling anyway so you get it basically for free.
Not to mention the reactive elements found in seawater that we could be using to fuel the facility after refinement. The obviousness of nuclear always seems to get upended by the politics however
@@Frostbytedigital And while you're at it with a high temp reactor you can extract the CO2 and use it to create synthetic fuels for carbon neutral transportation. There are endless possibilities which somehow have yet to make it on to policy maker's radars.
nuclear is expensive to build though, solar or wind is several times cheaper.
You folks must work in the public sector, you never talk about cost...
Seriously! I just commented basically the same thing as your comment did. I don't get why it's not happening yet? We are so far behind where we should be that it frustrates me beyond belief. IMO this should be clear: The fact that Desalination is so energy intensive but fresh water is so important.. What If we dedicated nuclear energy to be the main energy option to run these energy hungry desalination plants?? Idk why we aren't already doing this anywhere we could...?
Seriously think about it.. Nuclear power produces no green house gas emissions. It's extremely energy efficient. The list goes on. So why are we not utilizing this... We are being extremely too slow, too reserved, too cautious, too inactive to even make the smallest dent into our climate issue and our energy issues. It's holding back progression across the board in many different area's.. It's honestly getting really frustrating. I thought we would be more motivated than this. More active than this....?
Let me get this straight: The Arabs are having trouble getting at *heat*, of all things. Not even temperature differentials, but plain heat as long as it's above 100C. Or, differently put, is there an actually good reason why they're not using solar-thermal.
Notice how in most of the facilities pictures every horizontal surface looks brown? That is dust. So keeping solar concentrators clean in a desert is a problem. Also they don't work at night, so you lose half of your production capacity.
@@obsidianjane4413 Well, you could rinse them off occasionally. Wait...
@@tee2567Water is a flat circle
@@tee2567Damn, you people are so stupid. Think before speaking & if youre ignorant of a topic then dont lash out with your "genius idea" and disregard the "current status" instead ask why the current idea is being used not yours.
And dont stop at the first racist answer
@@tee2567you can also use dirt to clean dirt off of solar panels but why do that when you can boost the price of oil with every large addition to demand so that at least on paper you get a big rebate on your desal plant?
07:55 Steam logo lol
you're du mb
Ive worked in the commissioning at the Jebel Ali facility’s in the past. It is extremely big. These countries need power and water in that combination MSR really makes sense. Heat would be wasted anyway in steam turbine condensors.
07:14
Would you say the Source of Steam is a Valve?
and there is only 2 valves
desalination seems like good use-case for dumping excess solar power. this allows you to over-build solar farms so that even cloudy days can meet 100% of electricity need. water is great at being stored in reservoirs, so it makes for easy "energy" storage. though, limiting population growth in resource limited areas is probably for the best, but that's not something easy for a government or group of outside countries to sell to a local population.
That requires planning.
@@captiannemo1587 "Planning" is optimistic given the kinds of projects being built in the Gulf states. Skiing in the desert checks out.
i bet they burn fossils for this
We have very good and cheap ways to store excess solar energy: pumped hydro storage.
@@kapilchhabria1727 only in places with mountains.
I’m not sure that fab is the correct term to refer to any industrial facility other than semiconductor plants
LOL
Fab analysis
I am amazed that no one is talking about out how much water is used to process oil into gasoline. From what I understand it is about two gallons of water for each gallon of gas. Our local RO plant in Los Angeles sends 60% of what they process into ultra pure water to the petroleum refineries. How much of that water in the Middle East is for the oil industry?
probably should switch the refineries to grey water. That is the water that comes out of the wastewater plants, Industrial process is an idea first use for recycled water. A city is not the ISS and the residents are not yet ready for recycled water(that is looping the wastewater back into the drinking water plant's inlet pipe). But a factory wont care, the gasoline making machine or a data center just needs water in general, So send em the water that the wastewater plant would just dump into the ocean.
A US company called Capture6 is working on a method to use the waste brine from desalination for a carbon dioxide capture and mineralization process. They're getting government funding to build pilot plants in Australia, South Korea, and California, but it'll be several years before any of these plants can demonstrate if the technology is feasible.
What products will they get after the mineralization?
@@manyulgarprsch Some kind of calcium carbonate I think. I've heard of a few universities which demonstrated that it could be blended into concrete or plaster, but even if you just buried it, the carbon dioxide would be stable in that form.
I LOVE ASIANOMETRY
8:08 the irony is that desalination is so focused on efficiency, but any time fresh water is found efficiency goes out the window😮
We all must be efficient when no one is looking!
Till now, water has been mostly free or very highly subsidized in Saudi Arabia, UAE, and other ME oil rich nations. The idea of a government provided service being non-subsidized and breaking even is unacceptable in the region, as citizens don't revolt as long as they are kept rich with plushy useless jobs in the public sector and services are provided at dirt cheap prices.
Rather than invoke fury and revolt among citizens, Saudis, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE - all have chosen to privatize their water industry, with only government oversight to regulate profiteering. The problem is that these MSF plants are so damn expensive, that the water prices will shoot upto around $8/1000 gallons, assuming that the private players would have to buy energy at market prices. That is the landed price to customers.
Another project silently undergoing is inviting renewable energy companies to partner with RO desalination private players (predominantly Israeli or using Israeli origin technology) but it faces two issues - lack of diplomatic ties with Israel and the surrounding waters in ME where the sites would be optimal have been polluted beyond repair in terms of increasing salinity and massive amounts of chemicals and heavy metals (which are present in cleaning chemicals). That can be repaired by changing the membranes somewhat and having additional pre-treatment, and this is one of the reasons that UAE has made diplomatic relations with Israel and Saudi is wanting too, all thrown off by the Hamas. Qatar is on the fence as the Qatari royal family is kind of a fundamental wahabi supporter and believer, but Qatar if it continues this will face massive backlash with Trump reportedly willing to remove the massive US base away from Qatar.
The other factor in play is American oil and gas pumping. Europe wants more gas and ME had a market cornered but then US strikes back with massive LNG facilities and the ability to pump out enough gas to meet Europe's demand. At a cheaper price, as American natural gas is surprisingly cheaper, due to domestic cheap prices. Middle Eastern countries can no longer afford to continue subsidizing everything for its citizens as it as causing dents in their budgets. Another reason, ME governments want to get out of water desalination and privatize it.
This isn't only about water, but - about water, geopolitics, and economics.
It blows my mind that they had water for free. I only heard about it when talking to a Saudi in Germany and he mentioned his parents installing a pool (in SA).
I was like "Yeah but even in SW Australia the evaporation means the upkeep is pricey" "we don't pay for water in SA"
WTF, like WTF.
❤
With the exorbitant luxury spending that the rulers (including extended families) and government officials spend I can understand why the people of those countries demand these essential free stuff.
You forgot injecting sea water into oil fields to force the remaining oil out. Brine could be used instead.
Saudi Arabia is not your friendly Nation.
Only some people can benefit from the oil lords, change is needed badly.
Religious freaks in power, Allah is evil.
A story i heard in KSA in early 90s. Corrosion expert called into the plant up near Ras Tanura over severe corrosion problem. Turns out they located the brine discharge rigjr next to the Gulf water intake. Duh.
As the need for need for water increases I wonder if Solar Domes for Desalination are going to become more common due to their efficiency and low cost closer to the equator.
After all Desalination is an energy intensive process, using the heat of the sun in the simplest form of Desalination, would definitely be an interesting possibility.
As someone who grew up in Bahrain, the scaling on taps was still bad and the water was still slightly salty despite the distillation. Of course, I was last in Bahrain in 2002, so maybe things have improved since.
Thank you for breaking that down into Olympic size swimming pools for us Americans 😂
A privileged unit of measurement.
Waste heat from a nuclear reactor makes more sense
yeah but we still have the scaling problem. hmmmm
Middle east… I don’t think US would approve
@@gmu3134every country can actually have nuclear power… They have to promise not to use it for nefarious means among other things. It’s the cost associated with it that’s a deterrent.
@@gmu3134ain't the only one with nuke
@Ben942K yeah I don't think big daddy allows it still, otherwise they'd be working on it right now, but maybe soon.
Their mistake is fighting against the ocean and salt water. A project in Spain is using halophytes, or salt-tolerant crops, to form saltwater marshes. The tech is simple - canals & gates. The harvest of biomass is 3x what land crops produce. The plants are edible and also make amazing skincare & cosmetics. The marshes also produce animal protein in the form of crabs, shellfish, fish, and frogs, as well as being a habitat for flamingos. The Middle East has all the sun & ocean water they could ever want for. They need to start planting their coastlines with saltwater marshes. It's hard to believe this hasn't been tried.
Ah yes, those salt tolerant crops produce tons of freshwater.
@@mukkaar Those nations use 80% of their water supply for freshwater crops. If they stop using their freshwater for crops, and use salt water farming instead, they will use less water.
Imagine when they finally run dry of their oil production (which allows them to run such huge and energy-intensive desalination plants): with such a huge population (relative to their water supply), you would witness one of the biggest humanitarian crises the world will ever see.
No way it will drag on that long.
Within three to five years, it will become apparent, that CO2 reduction is possible, and largely solved. Then the remaining heavy users of fossil fuels will face planetary scrutiny. And demands to transition to solar immediately!
A mass migration into the better managed parts of the world while blaming them, most likely.
Theres not necessarily an event where the oil will just stop running.
I imagine the humanitarian disasters will come even before they stop deciding to siphen the reservoirs empty due to earthquakes and sinkholes.
Or they just build nuclear plants
They have solar.
I suppose they can dig a hole and pump all their brine there, and evaporate them into some kind of a dead sea mineral pond... Surely there's lots of stuff in seawater that can now be extracted.
14:34 I remember at COP28 that one of the UAE desal plants had an exhibit, and I asked them what they do with all that brine. Apparently there's a substantial market for hypersaline seawater. For what exactly the buyers don't reveal, but the plant reps say sometimes upwards of like 80% of their wastewater gets sold and trucked away.
They seem like a trustworthy bunch.
That amounts to some 20 trucks a day, not impossible, but rather weird if no one can make the numbers on where it’s worth using
7:26 Steam logo 🤣🤣
hm. I remember a video item years ago of an experimental low tech setup somewhere in northern Africa (I think it was Tunisia but I'm not sure). They built greenhouses with a brick wall facing the prevailing sea wind, and the bricks were made with little horizontal holes running through them all over. The moist air would flow in, containing enough water to sustain the plants in and even around the greenhouses. Salt would accumulate on the brick of course, but could apparently be removed easily enough and used as a cheap building material (I guess the benefit of a very arid environment is that you can build a house out of compacted salt "bricks"). The plan was to build these structures in large enough numbers to de-desertify a part of the northern Sahara, giving people access to locally and sustainably produced water and food. I have no idea what happened with that idea. It's obviously a much slower and more labor-intensive way to go about it, but it strikes me as much more robust long-term. Given the gulf states' high tech fetish though any plan like that might be DOA.
You can use brime for cement, that will absorb CO2 from atmosphere, trials in saudi at the moment
In Dubai, the water is first sent to people, then treated and used in agriculture and landscaping
Seawater evaporation ponds work for cleaning salt outdoors, in the dirt, because the growing salt crystals will naturally exclude nearly all things that don't fit right in the crystal lattice. When you harvest the wet crystals from the ponds, they may have a concentrated level of contaminants in the spent liquor that clings to the wet crystals, but this is why there is a plant for "washing" the salt. Normally, purification by crystallization is way overkill for food grade products. It just happens to be one of the easiest ways to get brilliant white salt crystals from muddy seawater.
Turning sewages (poop) back to water would limit the need somewhat.
King of Saudi Arabia sets a good example for his people by swigging only toilet-to-tap.
Singapore also have a desalination plant.
has*. Singapore is a singular subject, so you need a singular verb. For example, he has.
@Wolf-yr1qy thank you, grammar teacher. I'm blaming the samsung spell and grammar check 😉
...also, when describing energy inputs, you can't ignore how many solar panels the mere interest on those petrodollar reserves will pay for. It's only a matter of time. Solar is renewable, gas and oil is not.
The sun is renewable. Solar panels are not.
What you're missing out is that in Saudi Arabia, companies like Marafiq use a hybrid plant where steam is used to also generate electricity. Thus, the problem you're mentioning isn't really a problem if the heat isn't being wasted.
It's mentioned right before membrane method
Was recently rewatching up the nuclear desalination video .
There’s discussion of Arizona having a desalination plant at the sea of Cortez and unlike the west coast it has no clear outflow, meaning salinity will build up there over time.
Sea of Cortez? You mean the Gulf of California. What's the matter? You have a problem with Baja California?
The problem will fix itself. Saudi Arabia, for example, is throwing money at any big touristy project which will make their economy less reliant on oil. However, once the oil dries up, nobody will want to go to a desert for vacation. The GCC countries will revert back to escorting camels around the desert and water demand will plummet.
Has nothing to do with the video, just a pure hatred
I agree
Other than leaving out what will no doubt be an unpleasant body count, yeah, I can't see how it goes anyway but this. They've spent so much on this that and the other to diversify/change/etc...,but they just can't stop being what they've been.
Looks like smn out of Just Cause 0:16
Hahaha yes it does
Why would ag runoff have heavy metals?
Seriously WTF?
Would be cool if you could look in to fish farming. Living in the isle of Skye in the western Highlands of Scotland, the industry is ubiquitous and not without controversy.
I've probably said this before, but I appreciate how your videos are information-rich and easy to understand without unnecessary frills to make it more "engaging"
no need to apologize for potatos
I have an idea for affordable solar agricultural-scale desalination and water transport. This is a high volume continuous process, based on driving turbines with concentrated solar energy.
Consider a jet engine: there are compressor stages that pull air in, then a combustor in which the compressed air is mixed with jet fuel and burned, increasing its pressure, then expansion stages that extract some of the kinetic energy from the heated air to drive the compressor and do mechanical work. A steam turbine has similar compression and expansion stages, but instead of a combustor the steam is heated by some external fuel source, e.g. coal. The heat from the burning coal is transferred to the steam in a heat exchanger. I suggest A) using a large field of solar mirrors as the heat source, and B) configuring the expansion stages to leave as much kinetic energy in the compressed steam as possible. Instead of driving a locomotive or generator, the turbine's work goes into moving the steam itself. In this way, large volumes of fresh water can be pumped from one location to another (after initially boiling the water, again with concentrated sunlight).
For desalination, imagine that the hot, high pressure steam coming from one of these turbines is travelling along a pipe. If seawater is injected into the steam, the water flashes to steam and we have a flow of cooler, lower pressure steam carrying suspended salt crystals. Removing the crystals is a mechanical process that can be achieved with, e.g., a vortical extractor. Some of the purified steam can be re-heated and routed back to before the brine injector for continuous operation.
The major selling point of this process is that it can be scaled up to large capacities. Near the equator, a gigawatt worth of sunlight arrives per square kilometre. Given a desalination plant near a coastline, one might build a solar turbine-based pumping station every few kilometres along a pipeline carrying steam into the interior of a continent. At the destination the steam can be condensed back to water, perhaps doing useful work in the process.
Okay soooo what just pumping brine out into the middle of the empty quarter? Can't contaminate the groundwater if there is none
This is the most obvious solution.... Spray a million gallons a day of brine into the air in the middle of nowhere and you get instant salt flats as well as temperature reduction and humidity increase (for downwind agriculture) . Any brine that makes it to the ground will be filtered by the sand so that by the time it hits the water table, if it ever makes it, it will be as fresh as a mountain stream.
there are huge aquafers ander there+ oil and gas
15% of total oil production to make water is absolutely insane. Just mind boggling.
It's a pity we don't use some simple nuclear option for this. At the very least to pre-heat the water or something. Should be rather trivial to build, could use low-grade nuclear fuel and feels like it could be deployed in something like a sealed container.
Boiling water reactor? Guess what else are boiling water reactors? Chernobyl and Fukushima
Also, that's basically putting more nuclear materials into the vicinity of several most politically unstable regions.
Glad that you mentioned the national security question at the end. John Dolan, aka "the war nerd" is always talking about the impossibility of war between the Saudis and Iranians because just after some quick ballistic missiles the Saudis would be struggling for water.
This is actually a really good reason why we should be investing in nuclear power plants because get a couple of those running and you'd have all the fresh water you need for a while
The issue is per kilowatt hour nuclear is far more expensive
Of course the calculus looks different when you consider emissions and other cost not reflected in the price tag but thats not how the world works sadly
I'm bullish on nuclewr fusion eventually working out in part because we're kinda screwed if we can't find an overabudant source of clean energy
@@randomchannel-px6honuclear lasts 80 years, it's more expensive the first 10-20 years of operation but then old nuclear turns into a money printer. Where is the whole mindset that father seeds a tree so his grandson can benefit from the grown tree?
Price is just far to high. It just isn't competitive.
if you price in the grid stability batteries and ecological damages,
nuclear is not that more expansive, arguably one of the cheapest.
and even whitout pricing that in is still a magnitude cheaper than fossil fuels.
@@mbicanlol they're hungry and they ate the seed already.
This stuff is the perfect usecase for things like Solar or Wind. If you have too many of them, they produce insane amounts of energy that get wasted cuz no one needs that much at peak times, so you can use it to create fresh water for relatively cheap. With some big water tanks you can also store the fresh water over night/low energy times
No Oil = No Water ?!
Crazy, no?
Allah is Oil, that's how these warlords keep their power !
With water, they show the same friedyness !
Dessert people are weirdo people, why there freaks ?
israel has(had?) no oil, but is exporting desalinated water to neighbors(meaning it is overproduced compared to their own needs).
@@MrFateTube
In the case of Israel this isn't overproduction, but rather a way of economically maintaining strategic production reserves, in case the water levels in the Sea of Galilee aren't sufficient for drinking water extraction.
No. Reverse osmosis is far more energy efficient and there's more than enough sun in the desert.
I remember seeing the plant in malta and thinking how did we do this in 1881 and africa still can't get water
Quick babe Asianometry just dropped a new vid 👀
Asianometry continues to be one of the highest quality channels on YT!
I visited the Red Sea a few years ago. The levels are rapidly dropping and the sea will probably cease to exist in 80 years. Not to mantion the rising salt levels. It's funny because there are two contrasting things at play: the desalination plants dumping brine and the salt processing plants that just evaporate water into the air. The countries there are all fighting each other for water and shorting the other guys, while cooperation would clearly benefit everyone instead, like the prisoner's dilema.
The Red Sea is not an inland sea. It’s connected to the Indian Ocean in the South and the Mediterranean Sea (via the Suez Canal) in the North. As such, there’s no chance of it disappearing.
One of the largest desalination plants in north. America is where I live in Ensenada Baja CA, Mexico. Many many many other small R.O. purification plants in nearly every neighborhood working with high salinity well water. They make outstanding quality live water. + High alkaline water. City or trucked water is nasty filthy stuff. Only for washing. Use borax, soda & vinegar in your laundry as it’s insanely hard. There are also many thermal springs. Still water is scarce and in shortage in many areas.
Or just don't overpopulate an arid desert.
Those oil rich countries need the labor to build their skyscrapers, and then keep them clean. When the oil money dries up, I don't wan to be anywhere near that "political fallout" !
Stop talking logic to fools who built on reclaimed land when they have endless desert land to build on.
@@kapilchhabria1727Desert sand is terrible for foundations.
This sounds like what europeans say about america
Why would they do that when we pay them so handsomely so we can all drive to work, alone? All they're doing is turning something they have too much of, into something they don't have enough of.
Ras AL Khair, Saudi Arabia is the world's largest desalination plant with a capacity of 2,998,000 m3/day. It is also recorded in Guinesses World Records.
There are so many mispronunciations today I despair of calling them out
Well Arabic does involve a lot of sounds that don't exist in English.
@@doujinflip I wouldn't even know of the Arabic mispronunciations…
Never a fair comparison to pit any county's policies to the artificial result of the one child disaster.
In the Middle East, fresh clean potable water to WHO standards are more precious than oil.
It should not be given free to the public but charged at a cost plus price for them to appreciate it's value.
It is not free
Water will boil at room temperature if put in a vacuum at 1/40th of normal atmospheric pressure. Why not just pump the air (and room temperature steam) out with a vacuum pump instead of heating the water up to 93 degrees C or pumping water at high pressures through reverse osmosis membranes? It seems that pumping air out with a vacuum pump would be more energy efficient than heating the water up to boiling temperature or pumping water at high pressure. The leftover brine would also be at room temperature rather than at 93 degrees C. I remember seeing water boil with a vacuum pump as a science experiment in junior high school. Has anybody explored the cost basis for extracting distilled water this way? You should look into this as your next topic.
Now do you think you are first to come up with this idea?
Panacea: Pan - uh - say - uh
❤
Incorrect, it is Pan - uh - *see* - uh
@@simonedaniel I read that, and thought "yeah, that's what I said, and had to re-read my original comment, and realized I've heard it said both ways."
Gonna look it up. It's definitely NOT "pan ass ey uh" tho hahaha e: you were right! Shut down the internet!
Persian Gulf❤
Worked at a vacuum salt pan plant once, the MSF plant looks exactly like that except a salt mill intends to grow salt crystals.
washing was a hell of an operation, they would flood the pans with HCL then wash it out. you didn't go into the pan area when they washed, the floor was flooded to neutralize drips and the machinery was all full of HCL
Israel (who also uses a lot of desalination) has a big advantage on the brine disposal front as they just dump it into the dead sea (refelling it in the process).
They don't do that. It's been proposed but never done
Oh no, you said the I word. Prepare for attacks.
Piping subject to heavy scaling should be modular, easily swapped out for processing to harvest the scale.
9:03 sponge balls in these square plants
I had quite a chuckle at that one!!!
The main problem is failure to complete the process and partition the solute into valuable products like salt, manganese, gold, and other metals & chemicals. This requires more power. The most promising option is large concentrating solar power stations placed nearby.
1:15 average household, 2+2 model, uses 113 M3 per annum. What the heck is the problem here? If country has 30+ per capita, on average, WTF are you or them complaining about?
Gulf area should not be allowed to govern itself. 🤮
Let them dry.
"They should not exixt"
So what should the people do, just not drink water?
Use less energy-intensive desalination methods. Use the fresh water more efficiently - fewer golf fields, open swimming pools, etc.
@@nikolatasev4948 yeah cause these are the major consumers of water in the entire country. What are you talking about. Plus I'm sure newer plants are built to the new standards and are more energy efficient, you can't simply nuke the biggest desalination plants in the planet.
In the case of the Gulf States maybe don't import millions of slav-, I mean "migratory workers, " to the point where your population has increased by 5x in 50 years.
Some nations should not exist.
So BOMB BOMB AWAY???
@@poisedforduty have I said anything about violence? Your over interpretation is disgusting 🤮
@Ansset0 who are you to judge what nations should exist or not? And of course your kind of attitude leads to war
As an Iraqi, I agree. Saudi is nothing but trouble. Let's restore the Ottoman Empire.
All Saudis should migrate to a country which can sustain their population. A country with farmland and water which can turn into bread and vegetables for them to eat. The desert is overpopulated, and the only jobs which exist there are related to the unsustainable oil industry.
Growing crops in places with neither precipitation nor downhill from somewhere with precipitation is a facet of man's hubris that is clearly unsustainable long term. I hope that with green energy, these countries downsize significantly.
There's a good reason populations in harsh deserts were historically limited.
Oh the old endless growth on a finite planet. What a brilliant concept.
Our time is growing short.
I'm sorry, what? Farming? In the Gulf? WHY?
How would they get their food instead? Food independence is important in a geopolitically unstable region such as the middle-east. So they can't just rely on imports for their food supplies.
Why are populations allowed to grow in places with no water? Such a delicate water source to support so many people.
That's what I'm thinking. As an Iraqi, I'm thinking the Saudi population is going to cause a strain on resources. Unlike Iraq, Saudi doesn't have enough farmland to sustain its population, because it doesn't have rivers.
I'm pretty sure it's because historically those places did get enough water from the groundwater to sustain their population and population growth.
And if they didn't, the places just disappear.
Allowed? Are you going to control free people and tell them where they are permitted to live? While you are on a tyrannical power trip you should go to china and order them to stop using coal, immediately.
@@jatpack3
Nature has always taken care of infestations, Disease, famine and drought have always worked in the past to reduce the size of an infestation.
My dad worked at an RO Desalination plant on the All American Canal in his final years. It was a neat place, mix of old and modern tech because it was shuttered for decades after being built initially in the 80's. Kind of a folly as far as the investment goes, but still a cool facility.
If efficiency a concern, wouldn't it be a better idea to stop doing agriculture in a desert and instead import agricultural products from countries with more suitable climate? Two thirds of the water usage in Saudi Arabia is for agriculture. Seems to me an example of agricultural protectionism at its worst. If food security is a concern, stockpiling non-perishables is an option, plus there is a large number of agricultural exporters around the world, so one can diversify. Economies of the Gulf countries will collapse without trade anyway due to their dependency on exports.
Domestic agriculture also serves as a jobs program, as well as security concerns about domestic production. The Saudis also have no shortage of money to blow.
Yes, there were bad calls historically to provide water for farmers for food security in the 90s onward, and now the government realizes the wasted water being used. They stopped wheat and some agriculture products that require a lot of water
Food and water security from the Gulf War impacted a lot of decisions. So right now, the job is to lower down water consumption and make these desalination plants more efficient and produce power
@@Nope_handlesaretrash
All these problems of water and work opportunities can be solved in one way:
migration.
Iran's population has a below replacement fertility rate. People saying Turkey is also having an aging population.
That's where we'll put the Saudis. Hopefully Saudis as a diaspora will be less troublesome than the current Saudi state which causes so much instability.
He realized there had been several deaths on this road, but his concern rose when he saw the exact number.
Bro lets talk. It doesnt have to be this way
Is there somthing i missed?
@@divra11I was confused at first so I looked at the video title to see if there was some context that would make this comment make sense as a joke, if I imagine the title being read by a crazed lunatic with a gun in a standoff with a cop and imagine that the desalination plant is something that the crazed lunatic with the gun wanted to destroy then this comment would make sense as a response to the title, and that makes me laugh so I liked the comment, I have no clue if that's how the OP meant it though lol
@@xp8969
thank you!
@@divra11That's 100% a bot. Look at his name, it's the first words of the video title. Also, the account was created today. Not sure what the end-goal is though.
Interesting @@UCgBe3
He decided water-skiing on a frozen lake wasn’t a good idea.
Also to be noted, in saudi arabia, a substantial amount of this fresh water is used for oil resevoirs pressure maintenance, so not used by humans
I really enjoy your channel for scientific and factful contents. The body of water you are mentioning in this video is called Persian Gulf. Thank you so much
Don't piss in my garden and tell me you're trying to help my plants grow.
Regarding decentralization, I wonder what a water system would look like that distributed purified (not desalinated) seawater and tasked each household with desalinating it with their own home RO system.
say goodbye to the pipes transfering that salty water in few years
Solar energy has greatly decreased in cost over the last decade. Solar is now cheaper that fossil fuel energy to source (vs. oil, natural gas). As Asianometry suggests near the end of the video, a more distributed smaller scale regionalized desalination is needed (for sustainability and for national security reasons). The lower cost of solar may make it economical to treat and recycle the brine to some degree. Metals and other elements, would have value. This would however require drying the salts to make them usable for extraction, which requires additional energy. Given the scale, it may be possible to have ponds of bio organisms, halophiles that can utilize the salts to produce useful compounds.
9:28. MSF is still the best option for GCC because they use waste energy rejected from the power plants. The energy used is almost free.
RO main problem is its need to mechanical energy.
A man may fulfil the object of his existence by asking a question he cannot answer, and attempting a task he cannot achieve.
Consider that not only do negative thoughts and emotions destroy our experience of peace, they also undermine our health.
should mentioned Aktau plant or maybe make whole episode, would be very interesting
I think a good move might be from multi-stage flash to multi-stage vacuum membrane distillation. The ratio of fresh water to brine isn't as high, but it has much less scale buildup and somewhat lower energy consumption while retaining almost all the other advantages of multi-stage flash, including reliability.
For reverse osmosis, there are still some gains to be had by switching to a batch process because then you can increase the pressure as the brine concentrates instead of running it all through the filter at constant pressure. I'm pretty sure it saves about 30% of the energy. There's probably a way to set that up as a multi-stage continuous process, but the research work I saw was all on batch processing.
People in the Gulf region consume vast amounts of water for drinking and household use, ranking among the highest in the world. This high consumption is largely due to the extreme heat that defines the climate in these countries. While someone in Europe might go several days without needing a shower because of the cooler weather, a person in the Gulf might need to shower twice a day during the summer due to the intense heat. Furthermore, agriculture in the region relies heavily on desalinated, groundwater, or treated water because of the scarcity of rainfall, surface water, and the high evaporation rates caused by the extreme temperatures. In essence, life in the Gulf is somewhat akin to life on Mars!
The membrane in RO is hard to make. The natural one is not renewable, that the negative of RO water (if i'm not wrong)
I would assume that in the future we will find more and more ways what to do with the brine. Instead treating it as wastage, filtering out minerals/metals and any scrap of hydrogen still in it. I think it was last year when a news broke from MIT that had found a few new filtering methods to economivly extract a few more substances from brine.
@9:39 I've seen that picture before in one of your videos. I remember the distinctive 80s car.